The Rare Case of Ellen Friar

[@TheCasualCriminalist]

Go to curiositystream.thld.co/criminalist_0722 and use code CRIMINALIST curiositystream.thld.co/criminalist_0722 to save 25% off today, that’s only $14.99 a year. Thanks to Curiosity Stream for sponsoring today’s video.

[@thelilbrat3579]

Early so hopefully you'll see this time... CASUAL CRIMINALIST IDEA. You guys should look into the murder of Angela Wrightson. She was brutally tortured and beaten to death by two teenage girls in her home in Hartlepool. It's a small town so it never got much coverage but it was also quickly swept under the rug since Angela was a known alcoholic and the killers "we're just kids". Angela may have been a known alcoholic in this town but she never caused any trouble and I refuse to believe neighbors didn't hear anything, she lived in a terrace house with thin walls. Her horrific murder lasted all night and those girls acted like nothing happened. I know your team will do her story justice and treat her with respect without judgement.

[@thejoker420xp]

to answer your question, it is entirely possible to be skitso and not be suffering. my voices arent mean or tell me to do any thing bad, even if they did i dont listen to them. but they keep me company when im alone and i talk with them to help with problem solving gives me someone to bounce ideas off of🤷‍♂️

[@AdorableAcushla]

Fun fact, children who were abused are way more likely to lie about their life than to tell the truth. Also what evidence is their supposed to be for a molestation or rape?

[@AdorableAcushla]

And the dating an older guy is also characteristic of sexual abuse

[@michaelmayhem350]

Simon you forgot the most important part of the sponser read. That 'amazing' deal is capped at 720p resolution. If you want a real quality it's far more expensive than Netflix lol

[@amandasmith7314]

Simon: Doesn't everyone talk to themselves? Me to the empty room: Well I certainly hope so, Simon.

[@Lucoryphus_rex]

We feel this one

[@RheaRobin]

According to my therapist it's completely normal for a person to talk to themself. If you start talking to yourselves or disembodied voices, there's a greater problem happening.

[@notsam498]

I definitely talk to myself. I rehearse conversation, and hypothetical conversation too. If you happen to be neurodivergent, rehearsal can be a way to deal with emotionally overwhelming conversations. I often rehearse potential arguments, I tend to freeze up sometimes. Further it can be hard for me to elaborate my point effectively when I am under stress. I have always found this a very helpful tool.

[@mane8241]

@@RheaRobin Plot Twist: Jennings and Jen are not real but simply Simon's personalities.

[@SchlauSchafe]

I never do, ever, and was actually shocked the find out that people do. However, it is completely normal :p

[@JosephParker_Nottheboxer]

the reason supsects are given crayons rather than other things to draw with, is it's very hard to inflict any damage with a crayon. So it's a "safe" impliment while allowing the suspect to express idea's onto paper for possible analysis later.

[@bodyfarmbrat]

👆🏿this

[@Adrian-zd4cs]

Now I picture Simon being stabbed to death with a pencil because he trusted an accused teenage killer 🤣🤣

[@ndlsjk]

same reason I give *washable* crayons to my child, getting stabbed by a sharp pencil sucks.

[@StoneInMySandal]

In high security facilities they give you a tiny pot of ink and a 3cm handleless brush that’s held together with a string and a bit of glue.

[@rayaterry5365]

I don’t know… my two year old can turn anything into a weapon of mass destruction.

[@jacktaylor148]

You’ve gotta love Simon - a man so genuinely lovely that even his schizophrenic voices are just supportive

[@cassier3544]

So my grandmother used to tell me: “If I want to have an intelligent conversation, I’ll talk to myself!” 😂 She was very wise and I quote this to this day

[@ncbentle9154]

I had a friend, who when someone asked why she was talking to herself, told them "because I prefer talking with a higher class of people".

[@ericbehanna1702]

My grandmother used to tell me the same thing, always found it to be a wise statement, too

[@LordSwindler]

Seen that on a lot of shirts.

[@Sing_A_Rebel_Song]

That’s my logic 😂

[@JanetSnakehole28]

Type one bipolar here - I get auditory & visual hallucinations when I'm manic, worst being during a psychotic mania episode that landed me in a mental hospital. Part of my 'should we section her?' (they ultimately did, for 3 months) assessment in A&E involved me being shut in a room & observed by doctors & my discharge notes said I was having a full blown conversation with myself for hours & having a grand old time apparently, lol.

[@christinebenson518]

Sometimes the only intelligent conversation one can have in a day is with themselves.

[@katevgrady]

When Simon was pondering "if a schizophrenic has voices saying nice things to them are they still suffering?" I was thinking "well my brother's voices have convinced him he's literally God and it's not working out so well for him so far"

[@atashgallagher5139]

@@katevgrady But what if the voices are just telling you to work harder and give you advice on how to cook eggs without burning them and maybe tell you to ask someone out because you'll regret it if you don't do it. Or like a voice in your head telling you to work harder in school but still keep time for yourself and this voice in your head is just a life coach.

[@ryanc473]

I mean, I often converse with myself as well, and have a grand old time doing it... though, I suppose the difference is probably that I know I'm having a conversation with myself. But yeah, sometimes, when I'm alone, instead of thinking silently I just think out loud. Sometimes it actually helps me to reason through things better

[@ryanc473]

@@atashgallagher5139 that would be interesting. And I believe it's actually not entirely unheard of. From what I remember, most auditory hallucinations (especially non-schizophrenic ones) are of neutral voices. That is, they aren't saying anything positive or anything negative, they're just sort of there. Like a regular person. But if I recall correctly there are cases of actually helpful/positive voices, though it's not all that common

[@jjohnston326]

I got to know a crazy guy at a homeless shelter who used to have conversations with invisible people. They seemed to get along great. The guy would always smile and laugh while talking with them. When the shelter doctor put him on medication, the invisible people stopped talking to him and he became more and more agitated until one day he stabbed a guy. Maybe the crazy people need to be allowed to talk with their invisible friends.

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

I used to hear voices, most often a motherly one who could see the future and would tell me to do things I really needed to but didn't want to, cause she'd 'seen' that it would work out best if I did them. I miss them. Not enough to stab someone, but it was definitely nice just having someone tell you what to do. I think the culture you're raised in makes a big difference to how it really goes. My family are decently spiritual so from a young age I was just 'speaking to ghosts' and it was something to be encouraged. Honestly my personal belief is still that the voices were some sort of spiritual or ghostly apparition, but that's just what I choose to believe and I can recognise logically that it probably was just a weird mental thing. I did hit my head a LOT as a kid, so would explain it

[@milleniumfrisbee]

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

[@riennarindo9727]

I mean.... we're a multiple system with pretty good communication between our various selves, but we don't generally talk to each other OUT LOUD, where people can hear us like, arguing with the other voices in our head. 🤷 Still, if anybody took that ability away, tried to isolate or dismantle the personalities of the system - then yeah, there would be stabbing or sth. Not anger, or not only, but panic and fear and pain, desperation and confusion.

[@cjvaye99]

wtf I was having fun laughing at all the funny comments on here then I get to yours and it got dark real quick 😐😳☠️☠️☠️

[@atashgallagher5139]

​@CoRLex-jh5vx you should totally Google tulpamancy. It's either a weird brain thing or a spiritual thing depending on if you ask the monks that invented it or a scientist with an F-MRI machine It's basically creating a character or personality in your head, then talking with yourself responding in character until you get so good at responding in character that you can do it in real time as if you were speaking to another person. Eventually your brain stops recognizing the responses as your own internal voice. It's basically a schizophrenic voice in your head, but you chose to put it there and it's nice to you and you can turn it off later if you'd like though often it will object to that plan. There's a subreddit where you can go ask one of these personality constructs running on someone else's brain questions. It's frigging weird and real and super cool. You may have actually done something similar to that if it was an encouraged thing as a kid. And like I mentioned, the (likely incredibly lonely) monks who invented the practice thought that it was creating a new soul that lived in your head, and that they deserved to be treated with respect and dignity like any other human with a soul.

[@lHurley_2025]

I feel like there’s a difference between voicing your inner monologue and having a one-sided conversation with someone who’s not there

[@dsxa918]

Yes, a pretty dramatic difference

[@JoshSweetvale]

Practicing speeches: Sane, but not normal Talking at yourself: Neither sane nor normal Talking to hallucinations: Axe murderer

[@mariabrown6890]

Yep

[@Sing_A_Rebel_Song]

My therapist actually recommended the conversation part to me 😂 I’m partially verbal so kinda having that “conversation” out loud is supposed to help me when I go non verbal, she also recommended to narrate what I’m doing for a similar version. Idk if it actually works but it’s kinda funny lol

[@WouldntULikeToKnow.]

​@@JoshSweetvale practicing speeches isn't normal? You don't practice a difficult conversation or before you have to make a phone call?

[@morganleanderblake678]

Simon, they give you crayons because they don't want you to stab the nice detective or your own neck. Giving sharp implements to people you're interrogating can be kind of a wild card.

[@morganleanderblake678]

Oh, I can see this is gonna be a long episode of me wanting you to stop griping about the crayons.

[@bobbismith1675]

Also, coloring is a good coping skill for many people

[@Insertia_Nameia]

Yup. Those or the ink wells that are in super cushy silicone coverings. Like the tip barely sticks out. Some hospitals and psych facilities also sometimes use them as well. (Which is where my exp with them is from.) I love when they have those over just the crayons because it's easier to write with and I write stories in my spare time when I'm in those places, as a way to quietly pass the time.

[@darcymeadows1349]

I've literally never saying I've seen this case before and I was wondering why they gave her crowns like the girls 15 it made no sense to me and I'm actually psychologist but it's a busy except for talking and she wants to act like a little girl letter act like a little girl and keep up the app it work until they got what they needed so it actually work in their favor so it's actually kind of a good tactic I did not realize that will work on somebody over like 9 but is straight-up been so props to the cops on that one fifteen-year-old though like a normal fifteen-year-old until you f*** you not going to talk to you if you wash the whole interrogation of this girl I have she's like fake pumping to the whole oh I can't swallow I need a drink I'm he's coughing is making innuendos about I'm so cold and she's using crap and they knew it but I got to be honest the crayons actually work which kind of like blew my mind but kudos to the cops yall

[@darcymeadows1349]

I'm sorry I was in the microphone and it did not like correctly speak about me but I'm pretty sure you got what I was trying to say

[@MareaRayneOleander]

You'd be surprised what you can learn from random doodles and "play therapy". Also the doodling is likely to relax ellie into dropping her guard and being more talkative.

[@lirael423]

They are common techniques used by child psychologists as well. I went to a child psychologist when I was seven or eight years old and every session involved crayons and playing games.

[@chilljelloton2089]

Theres a lot of subconscious stuff that can show up when doodling, especially if the person doodling isnt trying to filter it.

[@the-chillian]

"Diminished capacity" and "fit to stand trial" are two entirely different categories. Fitness to stand trial is about whether a defendant can meaningfully assist with his defense. It's about his state of mind at the time of the trial and in relation to the proceedings. Diminished capacity or responsibility is about the state of mind at the time of the act.

[@Idaxasi]

I hope Simon sees this but it's been shown that there are cultural trends in Schizophrenia. In India and Africa, at least one study found they're generally perceived as benign or positive at least part time. In the US, the study found none that were positive. In some cultures it's more common to hear people you know than strangers. So schizophrenic experience can vary from what we normally would picture. This could just be useful info for his future videos.

[@RealElongatedMuskrat]

yes, you're spot on! There's also an interesting trend with religiosity in a given time period or place, and the prevalence of religious delusions being part of either schizophrenia or psychotic episodes. Back in ye olden times, people thought they were being spoken to by God or the devil, that angels were whispering to them or that curses were placed on them, whereas we now see more paranoia and psychosis generally being centred on things like surveillance by the state, cameras everywhere in your home, your relatives being replaced by robots or clones to monitor you, etc. Its really fascinating stuff. Our environment, communities and cultures can have such an influence on how things like schizophrenia manifest.

[@dillongage]

@@RealElongatedMuskrat that makes perfect sense to me. Obviously im not an expert, but it makes perfect sense that a disorder frequently known to manifest paranoia and distrust is heavily affectred by the world you grew up in. It is a disorder of the mind after all, and our minds are heavily affected by our environment.

[@matthewgilbert9881]

I’m a psychologist, and the expression and symptoms of mental disorders can be highly dependent on culture

[@murrayscott9546]

Yeah, I haven't read any of the replys to your post but I think I know that paranoid scyzhophrenia ixza completely different can of worms. Most scitsos, that I" be met, are quite passive. More ovva danger to themselves than to others. More ones to be pitied than feared. Still, life is ricjher with them than without them . Anniie - Ronnie Layne song. God Bless Us All.

[@Zoroaster4]

I would just like to put my input here, I work for a group home specifically for people who have been committed by the state (Wisconsin) and something like 95% of the people living there are schizophrenic (about half of which are diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder) and I will say I think Simons right on the money with this one. I've met quite a few who have been just super happy and laughing all the time while interacting with "their voices". They almost seem euphoric. They still treat them the same as well which to my understanding means they just prescribe different antipsychotics until one actually works. I'm definitely not an expert on this stuff just have 5 years of personal experience with it.

[@alklazaris3741]

Oh wow, I'm autistic and had no idea it was a common trait to practice future conversations by "talking to yourself". Personally I have always thought of it more as preparing for a role like an actor would.

[@endergamer7483]

Fellow autistic person here and yeah I do it a bunch as well. If I have an interview or something important I often practice the future conversation. I think it’s called “scripting” or something similar?

[@Baiswith]

@@endergamer7483 It's a technique that I was recommended to try if I wasn't feeling confident about talking to people (I'm not, to my knowledge, autistic) - sadly it can backfire if you've scripted out how you think a conversation will go, and the person you're talking to (completely unaware of said script) deviates from it and you're bad at the whole conversation thing, not just starting them 😅

[@darkstarr984]

It basically is! I started scripting because my mom suggested to try it and it worked so well for me!

[@vietnow2k2]

"I hear voices but I ignore them and carry on killing" Couldn't help think of that joke from the late, great Sean Lock when you were talking about hearing voices 😂

[@meh.7539]

Just wanted to thank Jen for her work and her humor.

[@IllyDragonfly]

As somebody who is neurodivergent I can tell you... when I get bored and alone I tend to act pretty weird. I count things like elements in a photo or a paint (like the number of heads or birds or trees), I start touching surfaces because I wonder what material they are and if they have been treated, I mumble to myself, I check my to do list, I draw something, I eat a snack even if I'm not hungry, I check my old messages and delete them, I walk back and forth... I probably look like a total psycho to somebody who doesn't know me and who walks on me, but I cannot help myself. My brain hates doing nothing. In the lucky scenarios I'm prepared to long waits and I have a book on myself, so I just read. Possibly an English book, it requires me more concentration because noises around me make me skip lines if I read something in my own language.

[@toiletfrog]

I count things to soothe myself. Count how many of a sound I hear. How many times a light flashes, how many cars on a late night or remote drive. Also arranging and organizing a small group of items. I don’t think about it when I do these things I just do them and I feel better. Maybe I’ll try reading in my second language to see if I’m less distracted by background noise, because the same thing happens to me when I read my native English.

[@TheJennnq]

None of this sounds odd to me.

[@IllyDragonfly]

@@TheJennnq Thank you!!!

[@tradelogikk7876]

Yep

[@riennarindo9727]

It doesn't sound odd to me either, but I am also ND, so...? idk!

[@baileyhayes3001]

Jen should narrate one with simon editing, i feel like it could be a fun special episode

[@nyrrtkalkin4206]

YES!

[@Zeydarchist]

Simon calling Jen every 20 minutes during editing like 'hi, Jen, how do i make xyz happen?' 'hi-- jen? what's a good me-me to use here?'

[@t-rexontherun]

Why?

[@TrueAmericanReject]

Sounds like a good first of April video idea, but can Simon edit fast enough to make the deadline (why am I trying to drop a burn on Simon for a hypothetical video?)

[@heathers8659]

I was rear-ended once while waiting in a turn lane. The women who hit my car tried to blame me but the cop shook his head at her and said it wasn't my fault at all since I was not even moving at the time. I wasn't even able to get out of her way. In fact, the policeman complimented me on holding my brake pedal so firmly that I wasn't pushed into the car in front of me. So yes, it is possible to be rear-ended and not having it be your fault at all.

[@grapetoad6595]

He meant it's impossible to rear end someone without it being your fault. Because you weren't leaving enough following distance. In your case you are reinforcing his point as the rear-ender was at fault.

[@emrys3368]

When your rear ended it’s never your fault unless your brake checking cars behind you.

[@Chris-hx3om]

@@emrys3368 And if you're 'brake-checking', it's because the dick behind you is following too closely! I absolutely hate tailgaters, and will slow down so they pass. I leave enough space ahead of me so that in an emergency I have plenty enough room to stop, and I don't want some dick to put my car off the road (and possibly injury me) just because they are too fucking impatient...

[@bobbycolley2247]

What if it happens in a prison shower, then who's at fault??

[@SerenaBS]

I was in an example where I'd blame the car in front, in peak hour traffic as it was speeding uo to 80km/p.h. the lady infront of me randomly decided to break to give way to a truck turning from a side street, she went from 80 to a stop in 3s...I managed to break in time and the car directly behind me did too, but the cars behind him did not. The truck ignored her because he knew all traffic would stop with the lights, and she drove off like it was nothing while i saw the guy behind me sit there and sigh knowing he was in for a fun evening. (It was also a bottleneck part of a main road so she likely cause an accident that resulted in massive delays) I avoided taking that rout home for years after that. Ironically till the same thing happened on my other route, only this person got distracted gawking at another accident.....so like Simon said the front car isn't always not at fault.

[@surewhatever8843]

I really enjoy the cold read format. The combination of the commentary with the writer’s voice is wonderful. And Jen? F^cking brilliant! Keep up the great work!

[@cynthiana8328]

17:24 Simon, *It's not talking to yourself, it's just thinking out loud.* Vocalising your inner monologue is entirely different then the back-and-forth of a conversation implied in "talking to yourself."

[@maledictionwolf]

"Talking to yourself" is generally understood to mean talking out loud to no one in particular. It's an idiom, rather than a literal term.

[@cynthiana8328]

@@maledictionwolf Ah! (forehead smash) Thank you for letting me know! I have Aspergers, so I'm afraid I take things literally. I think I'm going to go find that book my Mom gave me on idioms and their meanings...

[@seshthecat]

@@cynthiana8328 what an incredibly polite reply. I hope the book, when you find it, is helpful.

[@cynthiana8328]

@@seshthecat I try to always be polite. It's the Wordsworth "Dictionary of Idioms," it's from 1993 and has 432 pages! "Talk" is on page 374-375 and has 21 different entries. I'm disappointed that "talk to myself," wasn't in there. I'm sure it is probably in newer editions. I don't know why I'm babbling to you like this. I'll stop, I'm sorry.

[@bridgetfitzgerald3063]

@@cynthiana8328 you are fantastic.

[@Religion0]

I not only speak to myself a lot, I have heard that it's actually very good for developing your critical thinking skills so I started doing it more. It also helps make me feel less lonely. It's only a problem if you hear a voice or see someone who isn't there, if you're aware that you're talking to yourself then it's healthy.

[@isachan0o844]

My math teacher in high school used to say that when I asked for help, said the question aloud and then figured it out due to just putting the problem in to words, that he loved when this happened and he used to joke about being a consultant instead of a teacher.

[@wolfzmusic9706]

I remember one time about, idk, 9 months ago? Where I was with some students at school helping them out and at the time there was construction going on. Every 10 minutes or so (I was helping for an hour) I kept hearing these muffled male voices that only sounded a few metres away. I looked outside the window, thinking it was some builders, but I didn't see anybody. Then it kept happening about every 10 minutes for at least half of the session I think and it was really weird. It just had this pattern to it and it always sounded the same, so I didn't know what it could be. However, it's only happened once so I think my brain was just being weird that day.

[@janemiettinen5176]

I talk to myself, but if anyone asks, Im talking to our cats. As if that was somehow better..

[@Chris-hx3om]

I'm always muttering away to myself. I specialize in diagnostics and repair, and expressing out loud helps the thought process. It's like having a rational discussion with (yourself) on the problem... Well, it works (really well) for me. 🙂

[@jonathanobrien1752]

@@Chris-hx3om agreed..it's how I aolve problems ..talk my way through it.

[@marydunn7234]

When I was in a psychology class in college, my professor brought in a guest speaker with schizophrenia. While the hallucinations she suffered from were very frightening, she said one of the people she was in the hospital with had a hallucination that used to tell him jokes all the time. The guy never wanted to take his medication because he was having such a good time with his “friend”. The hallucinations don’t have to be bad and scary although I think that is what most people think of.

[@TracyD2]

I had a professor that would do that. Turns out it really was his brother.

[@kieragreywolf546]

Can confirm as the sibling of a bipolar type 1 and having been witness to some of his episodes, you don't have to be 'suffering' for you to hallucinate. During the primary episode I was witness to, my brother was having a grand time. He was talking almost childlike (despite being five years older than me and I was mid teens at the time) and staring up at the kitchen lights. He was smiling and kept saying how pretty they were and then remarking they left 'neat' spots behind when he looked away. (Bro... You're burning out your retinas. Staaaaaahp.) At the same time he indicated he didn't want me to turn off the lights (at my mother's request because he wouldn't stop staring at the lights) because there was an imp running on the counter that he was afraid would attack him if it was dark. (Spoiler alert: He never got attacked by an imp and just sort of stared at the counter before forgetting about it entirely.) Eventually he tried to pull me away to go play in the dark family room (or den) because he knew it scared me and he thought that was funny. Mom eventually got him to let go of my arm and made me go upstairs. Talking to him years later about it he honestly could not recall any of it, but he did say he remember the imp from 'other episodes' he'd had. Some of his hallucinations were simple and some were complex. Some scary, some not worth acknowledging. In my own singular experience with hallucinations it was much the same. It started off pretty mellow and 'neat'. I was fascinated by the way the floor rippled like water or the weird foot prints that'd press up through the carpet. The silhouettes of people walking on the ceiling was initially scary, but eventually I grew to ignore them when I realized they were harmless. It did eventually get extreme and god awful, but I tell this simply to show that even in a singular episode the experience can vary between 'enjoyment' to 'terror'.

[@anhedonianepiphany5588]

Unlike bipolar disorder, many, if not most, schizophrenics find their auditory hallucinations troubling, disturbing, or even terrifying, resulting in states of extreme anxiety. The same is obviously true of visual hallucinations. The euphoria of psychotic mania almost always prevents the sufferer from seeking help, and often has them abandoning medication which stabilises their condition in order to chase after the ecstasy of those manic episodes. Of course, these episodes are only a nightmare for everyone surrounding them, and desperately attempting to render aid.

[@normalhuman9878]

Wait the floor rippling isn’t normal? I thought that happened to everyone when they stared at solid bright colors. Though I guess it looks more like a vortex than actual ripples

[@hyperfox0934]

True, except that they specifically decided to state schizophrenic disorder, which was absolutely f****** asinine, as schizophrenic disorder is specifically characterized by the way its hallucinations and delusions specifically feed into and off of fears and insecurities of the affected! It is fairly unique in this, and quite frankly I think it's g****** ridiculous that it's characterized as "the hallucination disorder" at all when it's version of hallucinations is so g****** specific to it alone! It's obvious that this assumption was made by one of the police officers or some random ass true crime fan, and quite frankly I think it's stupid. If you're gonna play the "diagnose a disorder" game, at least fucking understand the disorder your slapping on! This is ridiculous!!! Amateurs. Not to mention that none of the behaviors described are even truely indicative of any sort of ongoing hallucination, and especially so when you consider the subject in question is fn autistic and isolated. Everything described can be considered fairly normative behavior for an autistic individual, not to mention its not even enough to indicate any mental illness at all!!! >:( Step up your fucking game people, my psych professor would kick your ass out of the damn hall for this poor ass performance! (Also, let it be known that I aim absolutely none of this at the commenters here, I am exclusively belittling whoever's idea it was to coin fn schizophrenia as a possible root of these behaviors. Moronic decision, smh.)

[@redprince9105]

girl i don't think you're just the sibling of a bipolar person if you're hallucinating

[@sarahkate8142]

Hallucinations can be caused by many things; including environmental factors like subsonic sounds, the frequency of which vibrates your brain /eyes / ears to produce the hallucinogenic effects.

[@vripp757]

In my city there was a 15 year old girl that murdered a 9 year old girl and buried her body in the woods. She wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. She strangled, stabbed and slashed her throat. Then she wrote about it in her diary and how great it was. She got tried as an adult and sentenced to life.

[@weehoozy4454]

Is this like a known case, cause I swear I've heard of this before, but I can't remember names :/ Edit: Googled the one I remembered, Elizabeth Olten?

[@vripp757]

@@weehoozy4454 yes the case of Alyssa Bustamante who murdered Elizabeth Olten.

[@weehoozy4454]

@@vripp757 Damn, such a tragic case. Needless loss of life, and crazy that it happened in your city.

[@vripp757]

@@weehoozy4454 absolutely! There's a beautiful memorial tree in her honor along one of our trails.

[@weehoozy4454]

@@vripp757 Well, it's not her life, but that's at least a sweet thing in her memory. May she rest in peace ❤

[@ragamuffinm2834]

I haven't finished the video yet, but I'll pull a Simon here and just say what's on my mind at this exact moment. Regarding your observation that some patients may be pleased about hearing voices telling them "you're great" and arent suffering m, the short answer is Yes! This absolutely exists. I work primarily with psychotic patients on a locked unit. But I also think it's worth noting that just because someone **appears** to be having a grand time when responding to internal stimuli (talking, laughing, shadow boxing, walzing with nonexistent partners, serenading their interdimensional fiance etc.), doesnt mean they aren't suffering. Frequently, they have simply decided that laughing, singing, staying distracted/preoccupied are better alternatives than following command hallucinations and stabbing somebody.

[@JennyLane8666]

That's f*cking horrible

[@MyWarriorInHiding]

Thank you for saying this. I came to the comments to say exactly this but you put it better than I could.

[@Elemarth]

With most mental illnesses, you don't have to personally be distressed to be diagnosed, but it does have to negatively affect your life. If, for instance, you aren't bothered by your hallucinations, but you can't get work because of it, that would be considered a disorder. You can actually have non-disordered hallucinations. Also, I have heard of positive voices! Apparently it's more common outside of America. Schizophrenia is a surprisingly cultural disorder.

[@BrotherGothel]

"I kind of believe that people become less idiots over time" This makes me feel that you haven't met many adults 😂

[@sarahissersohn5495]

I think he’s not entirely wrong, but also, that it’s much more of a journey, than it is a destination achieved.

[@ElissaBlankenship.]

I’d like to believe that, but I cannot.

[@cericat]

Look he hasn't lived in the UK for years so he's not had to deal with the people who voted for BJ even.

[@RealBelisariusCawl]

I feel like his hypothesis is called into question by … the entirety of the world, really. Quite sad, to be honest.

[@cericat]

@@RealBelisariusCawl yeah the past 6 years have been hell on the "A person is smart, people are dumb" front even. Because DJT, BJ, and SM here in Australia all got elected and cripes if they were in the room together alone there'd still only be a single digit IQ.

[@deesparklebazinga9374]

I talk to myself all the time! I was diagnosed with autism last year at age 38 and then ADHD! It's a strange world as I was previously diagnosed with BPD and Bipolar! I'm so pleased to be off the medications, such as lithium which has damaged me physically (thyroid and kidney problems). Loving your content, have a great New Year.

[@lightsinthesky4989]

The amount of autistic or adhd women that are misdiagnosed with bpd or hypomania is likely really high imo

[@violet7773]

I'm autistic and have adhd and I've found that I talk to myself so much more often when I'm on my adhd meds lol

[@kyddkreature9801]

I've been previously diagnosed with BPD and Bipolar as well, and have been wondering if I might have a touch of autism myself. I'm nervous to talk to a doctor about it though, but think I'm going to address this soon.

[@andriesoliviier9529]

Talking to yourself: normal Arguing with yourself: also acceptable Losing an argument with yourself: SEEK. HELP.

[@wendymoyer782]

oh, dear. 😉

[@TheHaniverse]

As a neurodivegant (ADHD) person, I talk to myself incredibly more than just 'oh that's interesting', like genuinely I have sat and spoken out loud to myself as if talking to an audience for over TWO HOURS on multiple occasions XD At the very least I'm self aware enough not to do this in front of others because I know they'll think I'm crazy, but I can not tell you how many evenings I've wasted planning my youtube content and recording 'imaginary' videos without ever getting out my camera XD The worst part is I don't even realise I'm doing it until I stop LOL

[@PetThePeeves]

Totally with you. And when I hyper focus I literally have no concept of time so someone surprising me out of it I’d like getting woken up when you sleepwalk

[@oddeyes9413]

Same.

[@calicofloof]

came here just to say same! Thanks for sharing your experiences, i feel a lot less alone.

[@whimsical_me5135]

I have full on interviews and conversations, too lol. Once I was giving myself a very good talking to about something, including shaking my finger at myself, and then I realized I was outside, walking to the mailbox, and people could see and hear me🤦‍♀️

[@prettyevil6662000]

Oh release my bipolar. I remember this case from EWU. It was tough to watch the interviews. Something was so clearly wrong with Russel that I felt bad that anyone was questioning him at all.

[@cjvaye99]

5:18 Simon is truly one of a kind. I watched this case on their channel as well and found the whole thing disturbing and sickening. but Simon here had me laughing throughout the entire video. I don't know how it's possible laugh listening to a case where a man gets his dome smashed by an aluminum baseball bat but Simon finds a way!

[@tapoemt3995]

Oh, I know. I couldn't believe they had the nerve to question him. Couldn't they see he had enough issues? To Hell with the fact he was one of three geniuses who brutally murdered an innocent man sleeping on the couch with a baseball bat, just let him go, he's f'ed in the head!

[@LordOfAllusion]

I didn’t know anything about this case until Simon said, “Can I have a hug?” Then I realized I had watched a couple videos about this case. This chick is a maniac.

[@OfftheWallTales]

I read the comments sometimes before the video, and your comment made me think she stabbed people when hugging them. After watching, I can definitely find some humor in my assumptions because that image is just ridiculous.

[@jtwright4095]

@@OfftheWallTales ....someone's been watching a lottt of true crime.....

[@OfftheWallTales]

@@jtwright4095 lol I wish I could blame that thought on it but I don't watch it much. Why I immediately thought of that was because when I was 18 to 25 I'd go to anime/comic conventions. And there'd always be like 3 to 4 guys throughout the convention with "free hugs!" on a sign. I could only imagine it turning into a stabbing, or getting felt up each time. I understand hugs provide comfort but lol stranger hugs definitely won't make me happy.

[@victorvale1015]

@@OfftheWallTales that seems like the perfect recipe to get a stalker

[@ignitionfrn2223]

3:00 - Chapter 1 - The murder 6:30 - Chapter 2 - The interrogation of ellen friar 11:05 - Chapter 3 - The interrogation of russell jones 18:45 - Mid roll ads 21:05 - Chapter 4 - The interrogation of the Joker 26:15 - Chapter 5 - The interrogation of ellen friar (Part 2) 33:30 - Chapter 6 - The interrogation of gavin macfarlane 39:40 - Chapter 7 - The timeline 45:10 - Chapter 8 - The sentencing 49:25 - Wrap up

[@343themarine]

Legend

[@WhispersDaes]

Thank you, good human!

[@FluffyEmmy1116]

Legend

[@michelleisawesome1081]

Ummmm...... This is all in the description of the video🤦🏻‍♀️

[@FluffyEmmy1116]

@@michelleisawesome1081 Dude, what description are you even reading? Unless you mean the auto-generated chapter that show up a few days later and are literal crap.

[@steveharrison76]

Most people are indeed good, Simon. Never, ever lose that from your soul, my man.

[@Anamilkk]

they're really not though

[@steveharrison76]

@@Anamilkk …in your experience.

[@faile66]

For every one case we watch or hear about, there are thousands, tens of thousands, nay millioof ordinary good ppl we don't put in the spot light. Even if the last 5 ppl you dated were d*k*, the 400 you didn't are fine. Anecdotes are taken as fact too often.

[@commonsense571]

This is true. Mr Rogers taught me this. ❤ 💯

[@ssaibase]

Seeing the "suffering from schizophrenia" joke fly over Simon's head was so funny.

[@heathergarnham9555]

He's adorably innocent

[@wingerding]

I don't think it did, did it?

[@SamuelGarcia-ej9dj]

I've seen the interrogations on another channel, Russel Jones says the incredible line of "I'm going to release my bipolar," at one point and that line lives rent-free in my head.

[@jennifergustafson7141]

I'm not alone! I'm glad I watched that episode but wish that wasn't my go to response for everything. Hahaha 😆

[@danilutka]

This!!! I had no memory of hearing this case until that line was brought up. Then I instantly remembered the integration footage!.

[@bobgunter9608]

I think that idea is kind of funny that they try to sweat him in the interrogation room because of his brain chemistry is so easily distracted he entertains himself

[@VioletProVixen]

That isnt his brain chemistry. It is him poorly attention seeking acting out faux mental illnesses poorly. Ironically, likely due to a cluster B personality disorder. Personality disorders, however, are learned adaptations, not a chemical imbalance. They are learned behaviors. There is technically nothing abnormal about the physiology of the brain

[@namelessspook7987]

I live in Medford Oregon and am just now hearing about this one. I brought it up to my wife who is a true crime nut and she just says "oh yeah one of the boys was a student of our friend right before this happened." Now I'm just sitting here annoyed no one brought this up at the bar on trivia night.

[@thedarkonestaint6105]

Same, had no idea

[@LindysEpiphany]

Yep, never heard of it either. I can't believe I live here and never heard a peep of this crazy case.

[@VerbenaComfrey]

Generally people like chatting about these local stories once it has some time on it. You never know whose uncle or friend or something is around, and it would be kinda cruel to bring it up as an interesting local tidbit

[@donaldn1616]

Same lived in Medford when this happened and somehow totally missed this one. Crazy

[@LadyBugIx]

I have high-fuctioning autism... I talk to myself all the time. I have also had a complete conversation with myself in front of my mother stating "this is how a conversation between Dad and I will go if I were to say this,". Later that afternoon, I was correct and Mom had to pay me two pennies and poor Dad was so confuse at how I predicted the conversation perfectly...

[@toodlespoodles9842]

Two of my kids have the same diagnosis as you and I too would have taken that bet like your mom🥰 My kids keep me giggling with their unique sense of humour🤣

[@treblebat]

Who doesn't love rehearsing convos to make sure people think you're sane?

[@LadyBugIx]

@@treblebat Right?

[@adenkyramud5005]

@@LadyBugIx I'm not the only one who won a bet with that? Holy fuck... Although my bet was that I could predict how my crush would react, with every single word being correctly predicted, when I told her about my feelings for her (over a year after I fell in love with her because I needed that much time to grow the balls to do it...). And I regularly predict stuff for other people just for fun, or to help them make the right decisions. Just because I can remember weird details about people and from that get to conclusions on how they think and behave.

[@WhitneyAllisonGG]

I do the same. Mostly to my cat. The best conversation I had is with myself.

[@MizBryteEyez]

Never try to fall asleep listening to SIMON , ROFL. he speaks softly, the becomes impassioned and his voice raises 20 octaves LOL 😁😁😁😁😁 ABSOLUTELY LOVE SIMON

[@commonsense571]

2nd night in a row I totally have and he’s my new sleep soundtrack bc I’ve been having nightmares and his voice is so kind it has been helping even tho the subject is crimey. 😊

[@ps374249]

Main theory as to why Gavin wasn't prosecuted: He was probably 18 at the time of the statutory rape allegation, and she was probably 15. Most states have an exception to statutory rape if the sex was otherwise consensual and there is an age gap of 3 years or less between the parties. Since Ellen and Gavin are probably ~3.5 years apart, and at the time of the allegation Ellen was 15 and he was 18, it's unlikely that anyone would try to prosecute. Even if there was a full 4 years age gap, it would be really hard to prosecute. You'd have to get one of them on the stand admitting to having sex with each other, have someone who witnessed them having sex testify to it, or have DNA evidence from a rape kit or a paternity test showing him to have fathered a child with her. And you'd have to convince a jury that a 18/19 year old high school senior having sex with a 14/15 year old high school freshman should be convicted as a rapist. All it takes is 1 juror who met his wife of 15 years when he was a senior in high school and she was a high school freshman and he's found innocent.

[@breannbubolz6583]

I know a few guys in Illinois who were 18 and had sex (consensual) with 17 yr olds. the parents filed the statutory rape charges.. And the State picked up the charges and even added things like aggravated rape, assault and all that. these guys were sleeping with their girlfriends. there was no assault, no rape,.... and now they have (had) to spend 3-5 in prison, and a lifetime as registering as a sex offender and all the crap that comes with it. One of my older friends had his son and the son's friend and his friends wife living in his house. None were paying any bills. and when my friend said to get out, the friend and wife downloaded all kinds of things to the only computer in the house then called the cops. Even though it could be proven that he was at work at the time of download, and no files had been opened.. AND the wifes gloating remarks on social media about how she could not wait to watch this guy go down and how she planned it all out.... the State STILL went after him and he committed suicide after they found him guilty and charged him. The court even disallowed all the evidence that proved his innocence and used the fact that he had every playboy mag as proof of "sexual deviancy" . That whole stuff said, It depends on the state, the people involved, and the kind of parents. I guarantee you that in most states if both teens are white, nothing will happen. But if the guy is Black or Hispanic... he will see some kind of jail time if the girl is white.

[@mktrill]

I was talking to a friend about how many registered sex offenders were around us at any given time, and looked online, where I saw the expected list of old creepy men... Then I saw a young girl on there which kinda shocked me, so I looked her up and I don't remember her name but she had gone to jail because she and her partner (also female) were ins relationship that hey partners mother didn't approve of, and she turned 18 a year or so before her partner, so when the mom caught them one day she immediately called the police and had her attested, but in Nebraska (the state it happened in) it was stated that age of consent was 15 as long as the partner is

[@wahlflower3517]

@@mktrill More than likely Nebraska's Romeo and Juliet clause doesn't cover same sex couples. When my home state was debating about extending the Romeo and Juliet clause to cover same sex couples, they decided to scrap the clause all together.

[@eralfion5316]

@@breannbubolz6583 The age of con in the Us is fckd up. Not just because it's absurdly high, but bc it has no buffer zone. Even if you are that bigoted, you could at least make that then it's 18 only if the older one is 21+ or something, and having a lower (16?) for people 18-20.

[@mktrill]

@@wahlflower3517 that's true I didn't even think about that but this was like 15 or so years ago, it's s tricky subject now it was worst then, but I was upset, the mom ruined that girls life just because of a grudge basically

[@LuckySpinster.]

I got really sick about a year ago and suffered delirium for days. I was having conversations with people who thought I was hilarious. My son said I did a lot of laughing, except for when I thought the lamp was trying to attack me. When I was hospitalised apparently I told the nurses not to lobotomise me

[@VeraBean]

I wonder if thinking the doctors/nurses are trying to lobotomize you is a common hallucination. I've also been in the hospital with fever induced delirium and thought they were trying to "take my brain". Twice actually once when I was five and again as an adult.

[@LuckySpinster.]

@@VeraBean 😮

[@jessgunn6639]

@@VeraBean when my nephew was 5 he had a really bad fall and they had to give him a general anesthetic, my dad was trying to came him down and unfortunately told him not to worry he would just go to sleep and when he woke up he wouldn`t remember a thing, my nephew became hysterical because he thought his whole memory was going to be wiped!

[@youngarchaeotech189]

The sounds of bodily distress aren’t exactly quiet Simon. My neighbours across the hall from myself heard me having a seizure through both our front doors and came to my rescue.

[@catT5236]

I'd be interested in Simon's take on the Gypsy Rose Blanchard case.

[@keiththurston3016]

Holy shit, just read the first paragraph on wikki for that one. OMFG that's fucked up, and a massive grey area. I wont read anymore hoping Simon will do a video on it. Jesus!!!!!

[@sarahissersohn5495]

Yes, please! I would LOVE to hear Simon’s take on this, as a dad-

[@emmabaier9439]

Yes! I’ve wanted him to do one on her for forever

[@emeryltekutsu4357]

My cousin has severe schizophrenia and sometimes she's giggling to herself because the voices are telling her jokes. I don't think you have to appear to be 'suffering' at all times to be schizophrenic.

[@Kier4n99]

Also I'm pretty sure that a study was done on rural tribes, where those with schizophrenia often only heard positive voices.

[@QBCPerdition]

I don't think Kevin was saying that "nice" voices mean not schizophrenic, I think it was just a joke about suffering, as in, if the voices are nice, you're not suffering from schizophrenia, you're enjoying schizophrenia.

[@jtwright4095]

😆😆 I was thinking these same things...

[@fish3977]

@@Kier4n99 yeah there is seemingly a correlation between how mental illness is viewed and how they might present. i.e. if hearing voices is stigmatized, they are more likely to say negative thing

[@theformertexan1642]

that's super uncommon. i have worked with schizophrenics of many ages for over a decade, most are cursed at, hear random bits of conversations, and even their own names repeated for hours on end. being told jokes isn't one i had heard of, though one lady heard racist tirades, so maybe it all depends. and yes, people with schizophrenia are suffering, they didn't ask to be tormented, or have their speech patterns hindered, or any other effects of their mental illness. Big ups NAMI folks, y'all are doing Gods work.

[@lucerobarrera8707]

Thanks for voicing your opinion on “no contest.” I had a friend who was brutally MURDERED by her boyfriend and he pleaded “no contest.” The bastard is spending the rest of his life in prison but the fact he didn’t admit guilt, bugs me even years later. 45:05

[@thecozyconstellation]

i think no contest shouldn't even exist! you're either guilty or you're not (or you won't admit it). but no contest - maybe i am, maybe i'm not - makes my blood boil!

[@Wohlfe]

It doesn't really matter, you're not admitting guilt but you're still charged with the crime and you waive all rights to fight the charges, and it can be considered as an admission of guilt in following civil cases.

[@sumo-ninja]

Who cares if he admitted it or not as long as he's serving life? People make words meaningless these days anyway.. besides it's gonna bug him even more that he maintained innocence and still got convicted..

[@commonsense571]

🌹🌹🌹

[@jadenriley4873]

I got diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder at the beginning of the year, and from what I understand (experience + doc explanation) you can have an absolute blast during phycosis, the worst time of your life, or anywhere in between. It all depends on your environment-ish. It's a spectrum thing Edit: I went more into everything

[@theConquerersMama]

Very true. Some of the people I have talked to about their psychosis it sounded fine. Like other friends describing tripping. But the pleasant parts don't get attention. Only when it becomes problematic.

[@Insertia_Nameia]

And also your upbringing, belief system, and trauma. My brother suffered a lot of horrendous abuse when we were growing up so he almost never has good ones. It's common for those that are very into their religion or traditional beliefs (not just Christianity either,) tend to think they're taking to God. Soemtimes it's positive, sometimes not.

[@TheLoneTerran]

Hey Simon, You were right, in the US the jury is who determines guilt and the judge determines the sentencing. Also, a reason a lot of Americans are down on even the "good cops", even if they're doing a wonderful job, but they see/know about other officers abuse of power and/or committing crimes and they don't report it, they're not a good cop because they're allowing the corruption to continue. Not reporting it is silently condoning it and letting it continue.

[@darkshadowrule2952]

Also many precinct policies and laws are discriminatory when put into practice, and doing the "right thing" by enforcing or following them is bad, so even going by the book can put you ethically and morally in the wrong. A good cop usually ends up a fired cop

[@inalostaraseri3947]

So true brotha, went from a little "blue bud" too film every officer on duty always and make the videos public access. Its gotten insane in the states, even here in Texas its getting to be reGoddamn diculous lol

[@deaniej2766]

In the US that may be generally true, in some jurisdictions the jury also sets or recommends the sentence. It could also depend on the offence.

[@darkshadowrule2952]

@@deaniej2766 Tru, and you can request to have the judge determine your guilt and your sentence (is that summary judgement? I get my legal terms mixed up)

[@gemmajordan2147]

This is weirdly similar to something that actually happened in my family. My grandma’s 18 year old niece hired/persuaded her friend with diminished mental capacity to kill her allegedly abusive father. He did it with an actual freaking sword tho, not a baseball bat. It’s the reason we don’t talk to my family in America, my grandma’s siblings all refused to believe that their brother-in-law abused his daughter, and my grandma did believe it. This happened before I was born tho, so I don’t know all the details

[@anjulikamins6420]

Nothing better than starting my day off with some fact boy! Thank you Kevin Simon Jen and everyone for all your hard work.

[@jtwright4095]

luvs it

[@ThatWriterKevin]

You're welcome

[@squeezypop1]

@@ThatWriterKevin if you’re actually “Kevin”, kudos… you’re an absolute legend!

[@TheCasualCriminalist]

Thank for watching! :)

[@ThatWriterKevin]

@@squeezypop1 I am, and thanks!

[@31webseries]

Simon: "Aren't most people basically good?" Also Simon: Well back to another story of a brutal murder!

[@katrinaprescott5911]

IMO, attachment disorder proves people aren't inherently good. We just learn to be good so early it seems that way.

[@Noodlepunk]

Most people are good though.

[@lwilso9152]

@@katrinaprescott5911 But it’s attachment DISorder. Meaning that regular attachment is the average, or in the majority. Humans are *inherently* social creatures, even if they aren’t *inherently* moral. Morality is a nurture thing and affected by culture. The instinct of Needing-to-Belong-to-a-Group means at least most people behave in a way that fits in, and fostering attachment does just that. Current trends in violent crime are actually going down, while population numbers are going up or stabilizing. I’d say that should give Simon some hope. Even if the exceptions to the rule can be absolutely horrifying..

[@katrinaprescott5911]

@@lwilso9152 yes, but my point is that it is socialization that influences people to act good. A lack of socialization, especially when very young, results in a human being in what could be called a natural state. And experience shows people in that state do not act with empathy. We learn empathy by experiencing it. But a child raised without being shown love or taught empathy grows up to be a sociopath. So humans are not *inherently* good. A child raised in, for instance, a lab environment with all his or her physical needs met but with no affection, no lessons in how to treat other people, would end up a sociopath Sociopaths know how to act - they are aware of what society terms good and they know what to do to fit in, but they feel no empathy and haven't internalized those expectations. They are taught. Therefore humans do not come pre-programmed to be "good". We are inherently selfish. We take what we want without considering other's feelings or experiences unless we are taught to - and that is only internalized if it is taught before the age of about one and a half.

[@zeppelin_7245]

​@Noodlepunk No they aren't. If they were, crimes like r*pe, murder, child abuse and domestic violence would be rare occurrences.

[@VoodooAngel63]

Simon, a lot of adults like to color and use crayons. They even have more elaborate coloring books now for adults. I generally color with either wax or oil pencils or pastels but crayons are quite common.

[@oliviarecommends]

I used colored markers before I discovered coloring apps for the smartphone.

[@theshadowherself]

I doodle and color with pencils when I am trying to focus on someone speaking. I'm almost 30.

[@VoodooAngel63]

I'm 60, for goodness sake. In fact, I'm coloring now.

[@doclewis8927]

I think Simon would be surprised what some lovesick person would do for the person manipulating them. Yes, there are teens that are way more intelligent and manipulative than one would like to think.

[@GreenNeonLine]

Yeah Simon notices the manipulation when it comes to a manipulative man but I think seeing a female as the manipulative one is hard for him, as it is for many people I am glad the court and the judge were intelligent enough to look past the one sided way law has been applied so often. Women often get lighter sentences or get excuses (oh I was abused booo hooo) and they get off yet men use that excuse and it rarely means anything and they get locked up on a higher percentage. Simon is right about one thing MEN are charged more…..but thats because courts let women off on many crimes men wouldnt get off on.

[@giabarrone7422]

I feel like if he had watched her interrogation footage, he would not feel the same way. It was pretty clear she had a malignant personality disorder that made her a danger to society, even if she didn’t wield the bat. Charles Manson and Ellie have that in common, yet Manson is viewed as one of the worst criminals in history. Also, in the US we tend to punish the crime and less often, the threat to society. Letting child murderers go free to reoffend once they reach adulthood hasn’t worked at all that well for the UK, so I’m not sure why he thinks proven violent pedophiles/ psychopaths/etc. can be rehabilitated by spending a couple of years in the children’s facility.

[@vickibart3491]

Yeah, this is sexism straight up. Men seen as aggressive, violent and dominant, women as weak, subservient and caring. You however seem to be belittling the impact trauma can have on people. Trauma has been linked with BPD and with psychotic illness. Regardless of gender. So saying "boo hoo" is really repugnant. If you're someone with a fully developed brain and not a personality disorder bro, you should be able to understand the vast grey area that is human behaviour. If you have an issue with this, start working to deconstruct sexism and gender norms, not just hating on women. Sitting there wanting a violin to be played because violent men get worse sentences than violent women is embarrassing when the actual solution to what you're saying is very clear. Stop being a misogynist and start unpacking your sexist beliefs.

[@CoRLex-jh5vx]

I got bored and convinced a friend that her and all her female relatives were witches when I was about 12. She got into screaming matches with her mum for 'not admitting the truth', and asked for a cauldron for Christmas. I made up a witch goddess she had to worship, and she did. Obviously at that age kids are maturing differently so she bought into it easier, but honestly as long as you find the right person (which the 'pros' are skilled at) you can get them to go along with anything. Everyone wants to feel special, and if you tell them that the price is them buying a cauldron and fighting with their mum, some will just do it.

[@cmcmahon8551]

This is the funniest actual inteview, i've ever seen. The criminal is hysterical. I encourage everyone to watch it!

[@Talisguy]

Regarding cops as a group, "ACAB" is a thing not because every single police officer is an abusive, racist monster, but because there's a deeply ingrained culture of covering each other's backs in the US police force. There's an institutional culture of solidarity that makes it very difficult to get justice in cases of police misconduct, and the idea is that everyone who is complicit in this is complicit in a corrupt or brutal officer's misdeeds even if they didn't personally take part.

[@TedExTheGreat]

Yes! Exactly

[@sarahy1680]

And so often the excuse is that a particular cop is "just a bad apple," ignoring the whole saying: "One bad apple spoils the whole barrel." When there's a mindset that individuals must be protected in order to keep the institution from the scrutiny of outsiders, you've got a culture that encourages an "us versus them" mentality and results in corruption instead of accountability.

[@awkwardpaulie]

the Junko Furuta case will change your mind on the Sentences being based on age

[@DGeffel15]

Along with the “The Past is the Worst” shirt I’d like a “Where’s your Lawyer” shirt as well.

[@AvoidTheCadaver]

also "Don't write down your crimes"

[@bobthompson4319]

How about a whole statemnet.... If your going to allege that Iv done something illegal then i am unable to speak as it may allegedly make an innocent person (ME) allegedly appear to be guilty of the alleged crime due to the line of questioning being fashioned in such a way that every answer will make the innocent person (ME) to allegedly appear guilty. And no matter how one forms words those words will be used against the innocent party (myself) in a court of law. P.S. Im innocent, and apologize if it seems rude that im silent.

[@bobthompson4319]

That will definitely take up both sides of the shirt. Lol

[@alexismyers6053]

I saw their interrogations on Explore With Us. Russell and Ellie were just… creepy to watch. Russell especially was scary. Also, I talk to myself, mostly working through story ideas I want to write, and my pets just stare at me like I’m crazy.

[@tnew1060]

As far as the question of life for minors goes, i say yes, just because they are young doesn't make the victim any less dead. a strong mental evaluation should be done for determining normal jail or crazy jail. Obviously this is a broad statement and a totally of circumstances should be taken into account.

[@TheCrone]

Hey Jen! You are appreciated. Love ❤ the new effects.

[@timmotel5804]

No Leniency. When the girl turns 18, real prison. No evidence or proof of her father abusing her. The other 2 should get 25 years to life with no early release. Another good one Simon.

[@Solonneysa]

The writing is excellent, and Jen's choice of music and editing is top-notch, today! Also, simon's excitement and interest is the cherry on top.

[@LittleRedTeaCake]

I have always talked to myself. I'm an only child, we didn't have any family around and there weren't a lot of kids in my neighborhood. It really took off once I was allowed to stay home alone and I'd be alone, without anyone to call or anything for 10 plus hours a day, so I had some great conversations. Writing helped. Haha

[@21chelseagirl]

Only child here too! Always talked to myself and still do!

[@Chahta_hattak]

I didn’t realize until you showed the picture of Russell but I’ve watched the entire interrogation video of him and Ellen. He is absolutely mad, like properly nuts. Now I’m excited for the rest of this episode for your take on this.

[@sarahcox1197]

Ellie may not be morally worse due to her youth, but I would argue she's more dangerous than the other two.

[@christiangauthier727]

Someone talking a bit by themselves has barely nothing to do with autism. It's a tiny bit more frequent but absolutely NOT a diagnosis criteria.

[@mebreevee]

I talk to myself with ADHD, the only issue would be if some disembodied voice answered. That has not happened yet. Talking to myself helps me collect my thoughts and stay on track when doing a multistep task.

[@selinesbeau]

@@mebreevee I day dream out loud. When I'm alone. It's been awkward a couple times when someone was around and I didn't know it.

[@golferorb]

I talk to myself all the time because 1. Nobody talks to me 2. I have severe anxiety and ocd so I'm always talking about my anxiety. However I may be on the spectrum but that's not the main reason I'm gonna get screened so I agree with you. It could be a sign of it but definitely not a definite answer if someone is autistic.

[@mebreevee]

@@selinesbeau I feel that. Done that too.

[@maddyl6988]

Same as most of the people on this thread: anxiety and want to get checked for adhd. I talk to myself way more than other people do - things I find interesting and working through anxiety-provoking scenarios

[@karenwilson9528]

One thing that struck me about Russel was that he seemed to understand that the police needed information from him and so he could bargain with them for this information - but he'd already told them everything before he started to try to bargain with them!?

[@rosiejl2798]

Autistic and ADHD, I talk to myself all the time as it helps if I am trying to remember things/working through a task like if I am cooking I will say the names of the items I need as I get them out of the cupboard/fridge. This is different to a manic episode tho (which Russel was having based off the description of his actions) which leads to low inhibition, delusional thinking and high energy which can cause someone to talk rapidly switching between seemingly unrelated ideas.

[@allisonfisher9304]

Same. I talk constantly to myself, but I know I’m just talking to myself, nobody else joins the conversation. ADHD approved🙌🏼

[@dalasher4214]

Hi Simon, Yep, I talk to myself all the time. I lived alone for several years and since there was no one around to hear me, I voiced my thoughts out loud. Then when I rejoined my husband it was a hard habit to break. It's been years and I still do it.

[@stephjovi]

I have cats. That way I never talk to myself 😜. I live alone with them I like being alone. Gotta use my voice sometimes

[@oracleofdelphi4533]

You should buy a volleyball.

[@christinebenson518]

I talk to myself all the time, when I'm alone. If someone else is in the house, I don't. I get so annoyed with my mom for talking to her phone constantly.

[@brianshissler3263]

The Russel Jones interrogation is one of the weirdest, most fascinating things i have ever seen.

[@bobmyers7030]

And Ellie's is equally as terrifying. Girl is manipulative, narcissistic, psychopathic...

[@darlenedenis5686]

Thanks to the whole crew for this video. Probably the best one I've seen over any of the shows I watch in quite awhile. Kevin kept us all on the edge wanting more; Simon not able to wrap his big brain around what was happening at times, and the moral dillemas throughout, awesome. And of course we have the ever spot on Jen with her own contributions for us to enjoy. I love this channel and appreciate all your efforts, thanks💯

[@jrmckim]

Simon I used to think the same thing about the police. Until I was wrongfully arrested and spent 3 days in jail. I was jumped by 2 a mother and adult son. They were my neighbors and their 13 yr old son/brother lied by saying I bought alcohol for him. I was leaning into my minivan when the mom pushed me from behind. She was shouting at me and I had no idea what was happening but my plott hound didn't care.. my dog went to attack and I stopped it. I was able to put the dog in the van. The older son was going crazy and taking his shirt off and screaming at me. Btw I was 29 and my 7 year old son saw all of this happen. Anyway I threatened that I had a gun so they would stop but it only made them worse. The mom was in my face screaming at me when her son came behind her and pushed her into me. I tried to defend myself by pushing her off but she took this as I hit her. Both of them attacked me but I stood my ground. What they didn't know is that I am a black belt aikidoka. Usually aikido isn't effective in a street brawl though. I was able to fend them off and they ran to their car and left. Finally the police get there but instead of talking to me they read me my rights and arrested me. 😒 my neighbors weren't arrested.. they were treated as victims. Come to find out the preacher of their church is a constable and he was there with the neighbors across the highway. There's a lot more to the story but yeah.. I had never had a speeding ticket or even a ticket for that matter.. because I am a black belt they tried to say I used weapons aka my hands. So that was a felony. Inside the jail the guards treat you like you already guilty. I was jumped on my own property then treated like I was a violent criminal. I have ptsd from it all. Oh and after spending months fighting the case.. the da dropped all but 1 count of disturbing the peace. I tried for a year to get them to arrest my neighbors.. it never happened. And during my trial it came out that she worked for the da!! When police get near me.. or speak to me.. I become physically ill and mentally unwell. I never want to feel that hopelessness again.

[@mellie4174]

Cops are vile!

[@khaosssssss1727]

That's horrific, I'm so sorry!

[@edfreeman4202]

I've only seen two of your videos with Kevin writing the script, but so far it seems like he has a style of bait and switch with his intros and I'm all for it

[@Madelad83]

Have you made a video about Anatoly Moskvin? He lived with 26 mummified women in his apartment. I don't remember his name but there was a doctor who fell in love with his very young patient and when she died he took her corpse home and lived with it. Creepy stuff!

[@Coentjemons]

If I remember correctly, he also made her his personal sex doll....

[@treehouse318]

i had not heard of this guy until yesterday, when i happened upon a Nexpo video telling Anatoly's story. i do not believe his parents, living in the same apartment, claimed they had NO IDEA that there was rotting girls body parts in their son's room. can you imagine the odor? 🤮

[@dragon-kitty]

I know that dr your talking about, im pretty sure simon has done a video on him - not sure if it was on cas. crim tho

[@oblivion155]

I believe the first time I had come across the story of the Dr that kept the little girl's corpse was a MrBallen video. It has been a while so I could be misremembering which channel I had watched it on.

[@Arc115YT]

Ohhh I watched a video on the case about the doctor taking his patient's body home on Ask a Mortician. That shit made my skin crawl.

[@WitchVine]

I definitely talk to myself, and to animate objects often. I kind of feel like if Ellie was lying about the sexual abuse, why did she take so long to say it? If someone wants to make up something like that for sympathy, wouldn't that be the first thing they'd say? Granted, she was kind of all over the place (which, y'know, childhood trauma can do to a person), but I think there's a pretty good chance there was some truth to what she was alleging, and it's not uncommon for a victim escaping one abuser to jump straight into the arms of another. Regardless, though, she's 15 and she didn't actually commit the murder. I'd say if the allegations aren't true, she should have gotten the possibility of parole at age 30. If the allegations are true, she should have been put in a juvenile facility where she received proper trauma counselling until she was 18 and then allowed to go free with regular check-ins until age 25.

[@haleyguthrie3113]

The way Russell Jones spoke in the interrogation tapes are so freaking comical for such a horrendous crime that I still don't feel bad about pausing and laughing at him for over 2 hours. "I will release my BI-PO-LAR on you". Like a bad Hollywood villain. Just go watch it...😂

[@jessiesratrods1210]

This one had me struggling to divvy up blame. I love how Yall try to tackle those questions in a professional manner while still presenting all the facts and doing like Simon has said before "More CIA and less SAW." Y'all should check out the infamous case of "Ricky The Acid King Kasso.

[@WhispersDaes]

The first thing I thought with Gavin's plan of chloroforming the victim's 3 daughters: He probably thought of that as a mercy, so they wouldn't remember the horrible events of the day. Which you know, fair.

[@markgrehan3726]

Or he just didn't want witnesses and that seemed easier than killing them all and chloroforming someone is incredibly dangerous.

[@WhispersDaes]

@@markgrehan3726 that's true. Could have simply been witness reduction. That's a good logical reason to do it, at least. Now, as far as the dangers, if he's not well versed in it, he may not have known how dangerous it is. So the compassionate motive and the practical motive are both possible.

[@MoDavison]

Simon I don't know who does the piano work for your videos but they are INCREDIBLE.

[@tatumnewman2098]

My issue is externalizing when it is very unnecessary- emails, walking through the office, reacting to the office bs- but when it’s time to have face to face interactions I’m all pokered up. 🙃

[@Wiickles]

It feels like a major injustice to have overlooked the complexities and trauma of Russell's upbringing while going into even some detail about the lives of the other two involved.

[@BlackRainbow84]

The bit where he said how he thinks later on of the perfect comeback made me think of George on Seinfeld. 'The jerk store called, they're running out of you!'

[@RealPumpkinJay]

Yes, I do talk to myself, apologise to inanimate objects when I bump into them, comment on things that occur to me even if nobody is around to notice, make snarky comments on actual and attempted stupid things I do, etc. I’m neurodivergent, but I thought this was actually quite normal.

[@justonedwards8049]

Same

[@jettanyx1]

There’s a schizophrenic I often ride the bus with. Very much in his own world and non stop talking to himself. However, the conversation is pleasant and even jokes and laughs. While I do think the level of illness he has is sever Suffering isn’t a term I’d use when you’re stuck in your head with your bestie

[@surewhatever8843]

As a kid, every time I ran out the door without closing it behind me, my mom would shout, “shut the door!” As an adult, every time I run out the door, I hear that same phrase in my mother’s voice. Does that count as hearing voices? 🤪

[@ps374249]

To answer Simon's question @ 38:24 : No, if someone pleas guilty, their case doesn't go to trial. Usually, those who plea guilty have to allocute- that is, confess to the crime in open court with some level of specificity as to what happened, but, that wouldn't be enough to prove that Ellie was abused by her father, even if she said as much at allocution.

[@littlefox8514]

You can watch the police interrogation of this case. Its extremely interesting and disturbing case of psychology. The three in question are all very different in the sense of how they think, motives, and ways they go about handling stress.

[@finnthehuman9426]

With this particular case, I would say you *have* to watch the interrogation; particularly Russell's. You can see he has the emotional intelligence of perhaps a ten year old, and in this case I actually kind of felt bad for him; he really thought he was doing the right thing. It's not an excuse for this behavior, but an explanation. I saw an interview of this lady that cared a lot for him as an older kid, because his own upbringing and home life seemed incredibly neglectful. I remember her explaining that Russell would play with the younger kids when presented with the choice to hang out with people his own age or younger people, and she stated how comfortable and happy Russell was just playing on the floor with the children. Even after everything was brought to light, and including how deceitful Ellie was, he still stated, to this lady, "I just wish I could have helped Ellie". The lady then explained to him again, "Ellie lied to you Russell. It was all a lie." Russell, seemingly unable emotionally mature enough to grasp the situation, even still, reiterated, "Yeah, but I wish I could have helped Ellie more." As incredibly descriptive Kevin is at writing, and as eloquent and adept as Simon is at spinning yarns, actually seeing the interrogation to yourself is the only way to truly do this video justice. Russell is definitely, by far the most... interesting to watch. But, watching Ellie's vapid, sociopathic, narcissism it's quietly unsettling, and will make you absolutely want to throttle her. It's quite a show these three put on. I would most definitely recommend watching the interrogation to everybody out there.

[@monkey6154]

I completely agree. The channel Explore With Us went through each interview in depth. It is a long video, but it is worth it.

[@jtwright4095]

i paused this one, to go continue watching the interviews 👍awesome suggestion 👍Explore With Us

[@janetrawlings1691]

Very true,a good watch 😳👍🤔

[@7MBoosted]

Can I say how much I appreciate finally using chapters!

[@Saltyyfish]

@The Casual Criminalist I honestly thought long before now that you had a lot of ADHD traits. I have ADHD and I find it easier to recognize them in other people. Talking to myself, constantly moving my leg, always keeping busy, ect. Edit: I just got to the part where the script says one of the dudes stopped taking his ADHD meds and people were worried. Um. So, I’d like to point out here that mood swings are common with ADHD and mood stabilizers can HELP A LOT, but I’ve never heard of anyone committing murder(ALLEGEDLY) because of their ADHD. It’s not like we go around, “Hey, I CANT REMEMBER SH*T. GUESS ILL KILL YOU.” No dude no. P.S. Edit: ADHD people can be easily manipulated by narcissists. Maybe this dude was. But he was also a cretin.

[@elle8786]

When I stop taking my ADHD meds, I'm too busy going through withdrawal to murder anyone. I don't even have the energy to want to kill anyone because I'm so worn out.

[@Saltyyfish]

@@elle8786 Ikr? It’s like how much murder plotting/committing can you do in-between propping your eyelids open and hoping you stay awake throughout the day?

[@registeredjopper]

well maybe this is the first one

[@TheStonesQT93]

I understand, but are there more criteria? I talk to myself (it’s actually very normal for humans to do this), and I keep busy all the time. When I was a teen I couldn’t focus well. I’ve been to doctors, I don’t have ADHD or any other mental illness. My focus got better with age, through practice. I still keep busy, but I can sit still now. I guess it’s more about the reasons why than the actual symptom?

[@khaightlynn]

I think Simon is definitely in our "leg bouncer's club" too. My spidey sense goes haywire on his tangents

[@aprilkurtz1589]

In some states, two people that close in age who are dating can be excepted from child predator laws. They're called Romeo and Juliet laws.

[@julieeldridge8760]

The Monty Burns reference when describing Russell Jones had me rolling 😂 Very witty.

[@annak8755]

The behaviour of the two younger sisters suggests to me that there might really have been some abuse in the house. Normally when a child hears a loud frightening noises they go to their parents or older siblings instinctively searching for protection. But they didn't, which suggests to me that there might have been rules in the house to not disturb the father no matter what they hear or there would have been consequences. Plus people who creepily abuse their children do not show it, outside they are the most funny jovial family men you'll ever meet but in the house the behaviour is controlling and manipulative.

[@spikey5281]

Being called a liar for abuse allegations might also explain the development of her pathological lying. She at least seemed genuinely taken aback by the cop who took her allegation seriously.

[@alexg5871]

Need an embodiment of evil with no moral ambiguity: Albert Fish. Kind of surprised you haven’t covered him already tbh

[@GiantPetRat]

I feel like a strong case for Ellie having undergone sexual abuse is just how immature she acted during the interrogation. She was spouting off lies the way a seven-year-old might after being caught with their hand in the cookie jar, for crying out loud. Barring intellectual disability, something was clearly awry. This doesn't excuse her actions, but I still think her behavior aligns with that of a teenager who went through trauma.

[@scvrounder]

It's also not a definite factor of. Without evidence and clearly not a credible source. Closer to a psychopath who has lied every step of the way. Had she been a couple years older she would never get out.

[@luludrinkerofcoffee4035]

Also could be an act to seem more childlike than she is

[@LittleBarracuda]

Age regression. Copic mechanism found in a lot of people who have been sexually abused as a child.

[@christiangauthier727]

This was an AMAZING Case, BRILLIANTLY WRITTEN by the rising Star: Kevin (he had hit it huge with his very first script & kept the quality ever since)!!! When Simon said he was already hooked up on the mystery very early on, he spoke for everyone!

[@rachelwitherspoon4394]

I know right? Kevin is definitely one of his top notch writers, one of the best!!!

[@keryeeastin4022]

Honestly yes I do talk to myself on many different levels I also have watched the documentary saying that the mind is capable of doing seven cognitive things simultaneously so I think that it's normal to hold extra conversations in your head while you're either idle or busy because your brain and your cognitive ability should be that high the only problem is is yes you do have to get along with the voices. They're your voices they might not all sound the same but it's still you

[@davemurphy9468]

You just have to realise that sometimes the little voices are not your friends.

[@keryeeastin4022]

Yes you do. Strengthen your mind and spirit. This will either quiet the ones that don't like you or change their tune altogether. It took me a long time to realize my own opinion of myself either makes the mean ones louder or more criticistic

[@beckybequette8212]

I've been tentatively diagnosed autistic at age 55. Waiting for a formal assessment. And YES I talk to myself all the time, including practicing conversations that are likely to happen. It's called "scripting"

[@mktrill]

I don't talk to myself but my wife does all the time so does my friend, but he is diagnosed with asperger which is on the autistic spectrum.... But I do remember hearing that people that talk to themselves have generally more organized thoughts and are just on average smarter than those of us that don't.... Also they say it's perfectly normal to talk to yourself, it's much less so to reply

[@surewhatever8843]

I’ve heard it’s okay to talk to yourself and reply, but arguing with yourself is reason for concern. Ha!

[@SolaScientia]

I'm on the autism spectrum (I can pass for neurotypical when I try hard enough) and I talk aloud to myself all the time if no one else is around. Obviously if someone is around to hear me I don't say anything because I do have a good grasp of how society does things even if it doesn't always make sense to me. It's mostly just me voicing my thoughts aloud and it helps me have a better handle on my thoughts. If I'm planning out my day, I usually say aloud my plans because it helps me focus on them and organize everything else around those plans. It's also just for noise sometimes if it's quiet but I don't want music or to watch anything. There's also the usual talking aloud when I'm playing a video game, though that's usually me just swearing when I screw up and die or something like that. But it's also me organizing my thoughts again. Saying aloud what I need to do next or where I need to go. Especially if it's a FromSoftware game or any game without a map and I'm keeping track of everything in my head (Looking at you Dark Souls 3 and Bloodborne for no map; at Elden Ring for tracking NPCs because there are so many compared to previous titles).

[@thejudgmentalcat]

I've done that since I was a child and no one ever said I might be on the spectrum

[@SolaScientia]

@@thejudgmentalcat There are other factors at play than just talking to yourself. My parents never figured it out (too self-absorbed to notice much about me) until I was well into college, so they never thought any of my other behaviors and how I "wasn't like other kids" could be from being on the spectrum. I'm sure there are plenty of autistic people who don't talk aloud to themselves as well as plenty of neurotypicals who do talk to themselves. I was just pointing out things specific for me.

[@drawgam2946]

On the spectrum too and the souls games are a way to train my stresslevels ;)

[@SolaScientia]

@@drawgam2946 For sure. I love those games so much. Working through DS3 right now since I need a break from Elden Ring. I cleared the Abyss Watchers last night and that's by far my favorite DS3 fight so far. I'm up to the Micolash fight in Bloodborne, but he's rather annoying so I'm purposely avoiding him, lol.

[@OrggsOrggs]

@@SolaScientia He sounds like a tough boss.

[@isometimespaintstuff]

I like to think I'm talking to my cat...but then I realize she ain't in the room and I question my sanity on an hourly basis.

[@commonsense571]

Lol.