The REAL Difference Between Pin Up vs. Pin Down | Storm Fate by Belmo

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[@squidly2112]

"The average bowling doesn't really know what they are seeing" - No truer statement ever made .. that is the truth!!! .. for me, I am trying to learn, but man, I have no clue what I am seeing 90% of the time. This is probably the hardest part of this game for me. Last night, I didn't switch to my Zen pearl nearly early enough. Once I finally did, strikes were easy. All of that is because I have no clue what the lane is actually doing and I have very little clue on exactly what to do even when I do know what its doing. This game can be so confusing!

[@hackprefect]

Thank you for helping cement something I saw bowling on a pattern a couple weeks ago. It was strange watching my pin down ball make hard turns after leaving the pattern while the same ball with a pin up layout was a lot smoother and more controlled. Now I have better understanding of what was going on.

[@shelovet0mmy]

Yeah it’s all situation dependant

[@Hemiboyy]

As a new bowler I found ur channel a month ago and can’t stop watching ur videos big D Tang 💪🏽

[@norussian556]

i would love to see a video breaking down lane topography more in-depth!

[@JasonBelmonte]

Another banging video full of good info!

[@AyyRios]

dude so much good info here. no one breaks it down like Darren does I swear its improved my game since I started watching. shot 750 tonight. thank you for making great videos

[@Bloodth3Butcher]

Love the video, I always say to people I'm bowling with, it's not how much it hooks, it's when. That's what helps read what you're seeing on the lanes. I'm a novice at noticing these things, but I feel like I'm really starting to get it. Also, ball videos imo are something you watch to help scout something for your bag, but you need to know what the person is bowling on. If the ball looks good the whole time and is hooking the whole lane with a really shiny ball, the lane is opened up. Using it when it's supposed to be, etc.....like anything ppl watch, you have to know how to pick a part a video and get what you can from it.

[@ayo4325]

Hey DT, can you create a video talking about the lingo you use? Hooking earlier? Flair. Just defining various terminology. Especially when you are talking about bowling balls and techniques. Thanks a lot!

[@xPandora__]

Nice info in this video The ban on weight holes really changed how we should look at layouts/drilling on a bowling Now we need a video discussing about negative pin layouts

[@philcc04]

Back when the USBC banned the weight holes, I thought someone said they also did a study on the removal of weight holes and ended up finding that lane conditions had significantly more impact than the weight holes.

[@lesialambertconant6221]

Man. we were starting to worry about no content! Thank you! Happy New Year to you, Jesse and your crew!

[@ericcarter1951]

After seeing this, it’s makes my head hurt, but in a good way. I feel like I should watch my reactions a little bit more than I used to moving forward. But I hope you’ll do the Storm Revenant soon! My favorite bowling ball of all time was the Spectre and to finally see the rerelease of it is so exciting! Can’t wait to get my goat of bowling balls back in my bag again!

[@chrYme_]

Great vid D. 👍 Lot of good information here. Especially debunking a few misconceptions of “pin up” vs “pin down”. The last thing Darren says in the video is one of the most important pieces of advice imo. I like to take what the lanes are giving me, identify that quickly, and not try to force anything that’s not working. One night I might be straight up, one night I might go gutter to gutter. Be versatile!!!

[@ianhoneycutt3858]

Kinda hard to throw straight up 5 when an 8 lb house thrown at 18 mph hooks 25 ft down lane, and doesn't stop.

[@SH-ic4mu]

You are the only person I have the notifications icon clicked for. Love you're vids. Fan from the UK 🇬🇧

[@kylesnowden6656]

For real man, as an amateur who takes bowling seriously, this video meant a LOT - just bought this about a month and a half ago and my boss, when figuring my finger-to-pin positioning, did it while we were under a pretty heavy time crunch (I work at the lanes) - and we went below the pin/Pin-up, which as I can see relatively delivers based off of what I’m looking for - although I am a two-hander, have been for about 6 years. I was pretty panicked on not knowing where to place it 😂 Threw the Timeless beforehand, did me well for a long time and haven’t been disappointed with the upgrade whatsoever so far lol

[@AndrewWarrenPatriotsfan]

I was always told that if you don't have a high rev rate or high ball speed, is that you normally want to change to a similar bowling ball with a pin down and if you do high rev rate or high ball speed, you go pin up.

[@corneliuandsons]

Tilt plays into that as well.

[@FSUSean2112]

i didnt see simo in there but its awesome ur bowling at his place, simo is awesome, same with belmo 2 of my favorite 2 handers right now

[@joshg218]

a good way to see the difference is to focus on the tracers at the end of the pattern.. The pin up reads the back end before the beginning of the outside tracer, the pin down gets through the tracers before it turns the corner.

[@chngmason5044]

It is a great informative video! I visited the lanes yesterday night and it was an interesting experience. I hope that I could be a part of one of your videos before I leave Las Vegas!

[@feddyvonwigglestein3481]

One way I think we can get around the unlimited variables that make up ball reaction, and how we can use others to inform our buying decisions, is to just see how different balls react for the same person. I.E. how anything Darren throws, or maybe someone like Luis Napoles who's closer to our type of game as amateurs, how different balls react for them. Then you can get an idea of what a ball is going to do for you. And also, making sure you have a reputable pro shop that knows your game, at least to some degree. And matching yourself up to certain cores/covers can help too, like for me anything with the iQ's core is going to roll well. All these things combined I think will lead you to more hits than misses when buying a ball without the opportunity to try it out first at a demo.

[@jackfrost127]

The conclusion of this video is the same effectiveness as asking my wife what she wants for dinner

[@andrewchandler9197]

Pin up was definitely hooking earlier. I personally think if you can't understand ball motion you should stick with one ball. However D Tang does a good job of explaining things, and there's a ton about the game we still don't know. The reason I say stick to one ball is if you add too many you just further confuse yourself. Just speaking from my experience.

[@HawaiianPop]

What a great video so informative. Thank you for explaining the game so detailed. I would be lying if I said I didn't fall into the trap of the "average bowler" and buy a ball based on a video haha 🤣🤣. Thats what I love most about your videos you don't push the bowling ball but more about the information non bias

[@llP_Tc]

Should do a over lay of the ball reaction on the pin up and down and show the difference

[@adammarsh7169]

THANKS FOR THE CLARIFICATION DARREN TANG!!!

[@24tristanm]

I like the way the pin up ball reacts.. can't wait for the Absolute ball review.. so far I like what I'm seeing but I need a DTang review before I pull the trigger.

[@SirGhostly]

That carry on the up 10 shots looking mighty good! Might have to be a challenge when you return for league. Any ball, but can only play up 10 all night!

[@scottythompson940]

Cool tech bowling ball storm fate with nano technology in the bowling ball more strike hitting power at time Darren tang

[@irify3645]

Appreciate this information it helps out for the new average bowler. I can take this information and use it to progress my bag. Thanks!

[@PointfulOkapi]

I live in Las Vegas and I bowl a lot, live next to south point- not an amateur or a pro, but I love the sport. Awesome vids >:)

[@jeremysmallwood8631]

Great video once again dtang

[@NHLfan1994NJD]

Always entertaining to watch your videos.

[@ski295]

Im just starting to get back into bowling. its been about 10 years. I throw pretty fast, straight with a slight flare. Looking to get a new ball drilled would you recommend pin up or down?

[@gavin5630]

I love the fate that is a bowling ball that I need to have in my bag

[@cobralol7]

I love that ball! Keep up the content

[@kill3stdayz910]

Is that Kyle Sherman behind the camera?

[@bigyodatheman]

It's not just about total amount of hook and location of hook, but ball motion as well.

[@24ADAM1]

I've learned alot on your videos, thank you, keep it up brother

[@bowlersvault]

The question that I am curious about, did you have the same Pin-to-PAP on each ball?

[@Find.list.ship66]

I have a pin up be 3.0. Too much hook. Can I rotate it to be pin down or do I have to redrill it?

[@jdpastor666]

Very funny video. Best so far.

[@jerryhinkle3786]

Hi guys gotta give a shout out to simo. he gave my kid a brand new NOVA when we were in Wauwatosa? say Milwaukee. Kid has since bowled 13 strikes in a row across 2 games. and picked up a 7-10. At the age of 17. I am 60 never done either of those things in my life. Any way I am getting a pitch black and thinking of going pin down cuz I bowl 2 handed since april and I have no ball speed to speak of 14lb ball might hit 13 mph my ball hooks to much so pin down is my plan but could you tell me if offsetting to the left or right of center makes much difference?

[@aw-stk]

My yt picture of terror has massive flare lines and is pin down. But when I throw the verge pearl which I drilled ring finger thru the pin that ball don't flare a ton.

[@chucksims6332]

this is something im currently trying to figure out for myself. i only have 1 ball drilled pin down and i pretty much never have a use for it (house shots) but if i take it to some open games on god only knows what it seems to look amazing for a period of time. and recently ive started finding my best dual angle layouts. watching this though i want to learn more about how flare affects strength

[@corneliuandsons]

Pin down drills are usually the better option for patterns that are finicky. The way the core is oriented they're typically in a slightly more stable orientation when released, so they blend the pattern out better. Flare lines are just an indication of the core correcting itself to get into a roll. If you have something drilled shorter pin to pap, around 3.5 to 4 inches, and something drilled longer, 5+ inches, you'll see that the gapping is wider on the 3.5-4 inch layout, indicating more flare. 3 3/8 inches from pin to pap is the magic number where the most flare occurs, as it puts the core in an orientation 45 degrees from either the y or x axis.

[@ethanwarren5269]

Would u be able to do a video comparing both the new jackal and absolute balls and could u also do a video on how to hook better using just the two fingers and not the thumb? Thx

[@circulartony]

I am finding pin down balls work well on Shorts or House and pin up on harder patterns.

[@moddedeuro]

I got a black widow ghost pin up for my first ball, bad idea lol, overhooks every time, atleast now i know (and i bowl two handed so its even worse)

[@qball7820]

"There's nothing set in stone in this game" Except the Stone 8. 😆 Have a safe Holiday everyone.

[@mikelombard21]

Its crazy how fast you can sike yourself out. - Darren Bowling is such a mental game, its insane how one thought can throw you off. When you think, you stink.

[@popeclint]

talk to us about what is going on in the thumb hole of your ball at 2:39. Loads of tape for better grip or some kind of griping system?

[@mikestupplebeen9257]

Ok this is very interesting. I just started bowling in league the past year. I bowl 2 finger with out thumb, using a Tropical Surge by storm. 14lbs. the ball feels real good in my hand and release. Watching my oil pattern marks on the ball reveals I am a full roller. Lots of reves and ball.speed is around 15.6mph. my feet position is last dot on left side of lane and I aim for between 2nd and 3rd arrow. My pin is up and slightly to right of ring finger. I bowl with conventional grip. lately my ball seems to jump and get all jankey at brake point . Very hard to control. what would you recommend?

[@GorillaGlueEnthusiast]

My pro shop guy told me that as a 2 hander the track of my ball will roll over the finger holes 95% of the time no matter the layout? Is he right or is he just a bitter old school guy that doesn't want to help out a 2 hander?

[@0bigguyduh0]

About the difference, does that also mean that the larger the flare, the quicker it will roll out?

[@johnsimpson1899]

One of things I have been trying to figure out lately is " How much does the distance from the pin to the cg make a difference on the roll of the ball?" Pin up or pin down. I have one ball with a 3'" pin to cg, drill pin up. Expected to use it for med to heavy oil lanes. Only have been able to use it on medium to dry lanes. The ball, Radical Innovator.

[@byronfranek2706]

3-4" pin out, 2-3oz top was considered an ideal ball in terms of drilling versatility with balance holes within the 1oz rules. Since the rule change to 3oz and no balance holes in 2020, pin-out and top weight specs, and the CG itself, are irrelevant to ball motion and layouts on high flaring bowling balls.

[@johnsimpson1899]

Thank you. Cleared that up for me.

[@gordonwebb5039]

Doses it matter pin up or pin down the weight feel different on your fingers

[@keyeisme1694]

Can you demonstrate how to use thumb tape, i.e. your method to place the tape in the thumb hole?

[@ricka.wetselphdbowler3526]

I thought the distance from your PAP was the important number. Of course for most bowlers pin up is farther from the PAP compared to the pin down.

[@corneliuandsons]

It is, but the angle at which the core is placed has an effect as well. Distance determines roll motion, angles determine skid-hook-roll shape and transition time. Friction is most important though, so coverstock is #1.

[@alanreasoner4597]

I would love to see a slow mo ball transition breakdown

[@BasketBowlers]

How is the 3rd number different for 2LS versus VLS? Because it doesn't seem that a pin up 5x5x2 on the Fate would equate to a 2LS 5x5x2 on the same ball.

[@FSUSean2112]

just from my thoughts on it the pin down goes a little bit longer but also the breakpoint isnt as agressive down lane and its cleaner, interesting, ive got the proton idk what drilling layout but i think its 4 x 4 x 1, and the pin is at the 1 o clock position and im bowling league house shots but im interested in doing this pin up pin down thing possibly getting the magic gem pin down.

[@MotionSkater]

For us thumbless bowlers, a pin closer to our finger holes, would that make the ball react like a pin down?

[@95tay4lyfe]

Could you explain the meaning of the numbers on a layout? What would a ball at 50x45x30 mean?

[@tatis7775]

To the bowling alley

[@jdnance168]

Best damn video. Period.

[@paulwalker1755]

I love your videos I'd love to get a phaze 5 14 lbs and I bowling highschool league in south dakota.

[@SuterBowling]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks to me as though the actual hook phase for pin down balls is shorter than pin up. It looks as though it goes from hook to roll much faster and gets into a roll sooner than the pin up.

[@DarrenTang]

No sir. It’s actually the opposite.

[@micahcarrier4030]

Would you consider 1000 grit on the fate?

[@AndreWDYounitedRevolution]

I like to throw out the question: Why would you drill a pin down ball after all in order to have a weaker ball for the weaker part of ur arsenal if u could just use a weaker out of box/production ball and drill that pin up the same way like all of your other high end balls?

[@corneliuandsons]

I typically think about it this way. Coverstock is for oil amounts, layout is for oil pattern (includes pattern breakdown too). That's overly simplified, but it's the general gist of it.

[@jl4560]

To me watching the pin-up did read earlier but did not finish as hard as the pin-down ball did. Am I correct?

[@arthurr7866]

Can you comment about balls that have thumb weight vs finger weight ? Nice video. Very educational.

[@josephr5766]

I love your videos. How do I know if the pro-shop drilled my ball Pin up or Pin Down?

[@ianhoneycutt3858]

Is it true that pin down balls hit harder? I feel like since a pin down ball flares less, it retains energy and has better inertia transfer, causing better carry. I doubt it's true, but my pin down balls have always carried better

[@adibdanial99]

Hello from borneo 🤘🏻

[@jjlewis6147]

What's a pap, what's a pin up pin down, drill it above the ring finger or right in the middle and let's go

[@zackhomer]

im and a right handed two handed bowler in need of a new spare ball does anyone have any recommendations

[@kashhh19]

can someone tell me the best upgrade from a raw hammer burn? I wanna get the phaze 5! should i?I?? need thoughts! and It's 16lbs. I don't have a problem throwing it. should I move to 15??

[@richardsantine7318]

Which one do you like better, pin up or pin down?

[@tatis7775]

I’m at south point can you come

[@thanhchaugia1808]

Is that beard guy simonsen?

[@Mortimuss]

So Symmetric vs. asymmetrical?

[@vee6371]

this was a very educational video

[@outlaws3280]

I’m getting the new fate ball tomorrow should I go pin up or pin down with it ?

[@87apizzi]

Cmon Darren, take a real challenger. I've applied twice let's go. I'll happily drive to Vegas from Phoenix

[@ianhoneycutt3858]

When I buy a ball, I don't look at where the ball can be played, I look at the benchmark roll. I bought the Idol Cosmos because it was the smoothest pearl ball I'd ever seen, and it works great for me. However, I have an old Dv8 Intimidator Pearl (comparable to the X2 I'd say), and since I always found it to roll smooth, even though I could move as far left with it as I wanted it to, I decided to make it a genuine hockey stick ball (I.E enters the hoom phaze late, but checks so hard it looks like someone is kicking it), and it looks better than it ever has before. It's always helped me keep a well balanced and versatile arsenal

[@chrisdobell2025]

When you show the comparison shots why not do them split screen so it's easier to see the differences. Otherwise love your vids 😉

[@roger2941]

What are the pin buffer layouts for each?

[@Slinginghotlead007]

Tang Dynasty!

[@GLlTCHED17]

I want a challenge ! I want to try and get free bowling lessons lol

[@godspartans117]

Wow the amount of tape he has in the thumb insert

[@jimbailey9830]

turn the loud music off so i can hear you

[@nordattack]

I did not learn the "REAL difference" between pin up vs. pin down.

[@arlos888]

Im having problem playing left handed..🤣🤣..can left handed play like that.?

[@munkeynutz13]

I've found that pin down works better for my game. Pin up can be pretty over under for me.

[@corneliuandsons]

The main thing to keep in mind when talking pin up vs pin down is that most people use two positions, above the bridge and below the bridge. If you're going to stay consistent with it, the pin has to be the same distance from your PAP. When people just go above and below the bridge, the below position will typically have a shorter pin to PAP dependent on the "up" measurement of the PAP.

[@dswede9312]

Jesse could have removed all of the house balls off of the rack.

[@beeros6496]

@ 9:13 See what you're seeing. Kinda like? "i think i taw a puddy tat" I do love your review though. Saying you can't just watch a video and say yeah I throw it there I like it...I'll get it. I don't do that but I do watch a few of you guys that are really good and reviewing balls. Then if it looks like I can roll it decent from a few different reviews I may try it. This one is on the fence for me at the moment. Maybe.

[@gamingwithjas6750]

How many pin down and pin up balls should you have in an arsenal. I have 3 pin up balls, 2 pin in balls, and 1 pin down pall.

[@topthrilldragster20]

I was told pin down goes further down the lane. And pin up is early.

[@Jgotcha187]

Educate me lol I know u r a storm guy but I have a radical crypto that is way too early I haven’t found lanes with enough oil to keep that ball from hooking too soon lol my next ball down is the venom coral blue which is usually better for me in later games I need a ball to fill that gap

[@vance836]

Honestly the lack of lighting down lane made it difficult to really tell what the ball is doing. But I have a Fate laid out 55 by 4.75 by 25 and it is very skid/flip.

[@exitar1]

The real difference one pin is above the fingers and one is below.....😁