What Is The Difference Between A Bowling Ball Drilled Pin Up & Pin Down | Featuring 900 Global Zen!

There's always been so many questions about pin up vs pin down and what the difference are and whatnot. In this video I took two 900 Global Zen's and drilled them 30x4.5x30 and 30x4.5x75 to se what the differences are ON THE LANE!
Order a Zen here: bit.ly/3AUUogz
Order everything else here: bit.ly/3sUTcHd
3G Tour Ultra/C: bit.ly/33kLpKe
Link to my Patreon: / luisnapoles
Link to my Discord: / discord

[@aaronjames3375]

The shot at the 12:45 mark won me over. Sir you just convinced me to buy a pin-down Zen and to subscribe to your channel. Phenomenal video, can't wait to watch more!

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks Aaron!! Welcome to the club!!

[@michaelsnyder3577]

I LOVE your reactions to shots. You crack me up man. A wealth of knowledge while still being comical and entertaining. Perfect amount of shots with explanations as well. Pure gold baby!

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for that Michael! I still really love bowling!

[@georgeweier2108]

Yes, I like that because sometimes you just move left so much that when you have a pin down ball, you don’t have to move so left and you can start to work the ball the way it should be worked. I think that’s great. I had a grip that newest one and I had a pin up and I just had to move Sometimes 10 boards over or 11 boards over to make that ball hit the way it should, and I drilled with the pin down and I haven’t really gotten used to it yet. You have also made me take a ball the Zen with the pin down because I saw the way you threw that ball. You went more straight with the pin down and sometimes you need that with the way the pattern is and I think this is very educational. I enjoy it and, it’s always good to see your videos on the new ball that are coming out. I love them because you really explain everything about it and the corrections you make later on I listen to them too and I’m very glad that you do that you’re just a great instructor to help me along in my flight through Bowling because I never took professional lessons and I followed decent game but not something that I would be really proud of, but they have a lot of recking to do with me. I can bow at 2:20 or 230 and then I can roll in 160 so that’s my problem.

[@slip309]

Thanks for a really great explanation Luis! I appreciate you breaking some of these concepts down into simple terms. I have a pin up Infamous and a pin down Black Widow Ghost and thinking back over some games yesterday, I can see what you mean about layout affecting ball motion (obviously sim/asim and cover stock make a HUGE difference as well). Keep up the great work!

[@LuisNapoles]

I'm glad you liked it! I am just trying to break things down as simple as possible!

[@MasterGunz84]

Luis, awesome video on the pin up & pin down on the Zen, great layouts on both zen, and info on surface. Been eying the zen for a good minute, now I’m going to get one! Thank You 🙏🏼 😊🤙🏽

[@LuisNapoles]

I hope you love it like I have! Use the link in my bio to support the channel!

[@DanceVids]

I loved this video. The pin down really rolled smooth and shaped well on the lane. I have a pin down Trend 2 and it's similar finishing ball for me. Keep up the great videos. Thanks again!

[@LuisNapoles]

Nice Chad! Thanks for the support!

[@brianhainey9452]

More educational videos?...YES! Pin Up vs Pin Down battle is amazing to see in any popular/league ball. Do a video on how to find PAP without a ProSect...Just tape & your phone's video camera! Keep up the good work Luis! You're make a difference sir!!!

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for that!! I’ll work on some more videos!

[@RogaBigCalves]

Great video overall. Just wanted to say your swing is definitely looking smoother lately. Keep up the good work.

[@LuisNapoles]

I appreciate that! I have a long way to go but we'll get there!

[@T.H.4219]

Mr. Luis I really enjoy the content in the video and I hope you would do more videos in the future like this because I enjoy a pin down layout.

[@LuisNapoles]

I definitely definitely will !

[@joelosurdo4858]

Great job explaining the numbers difference on both layouts. Pin down was money in your hand on that condition! Keep up the good work!!

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for that Joe!

[@muttsbutts]

Great video Luis. One could definitely see the ball motion differences in each ball. Thanks for explaining the ball motion, of these lay-outs, and how those motions can be beneficial to in-game situations. I too have a pin up and pin down drill of the same ball, and I'll have to re-evaluate those balls. 👊🖖✌

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea! Figure them out and see how they can help your game!

[@billfleming8281]

Really nice job explaining the differences , thx !

[@LuisNapoles]

Glad it helped!!

[@usafvet5602]

Great job Luis....very informative.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks!!

[@cozzi67]

a great simple explanation of pin down vs pin up ..amazing how many players still get this the wrong way around. I have a new Zen - pin down - but I didn't like the shape - lots of "wobbles" when moving left ... so I put a 1000/4000 surface on it ... much better now

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for sharing

[@mackhudson7351]

Great Video! You're straight up $$ with that pin down Zen in zone 2!!!

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks Mack! I am def trying here!

[@MrMice...]

Recent subscriber, really enjoy your vids and appreciate the upload frequency. One thing I'd like to see on any bowler channel, would be a PIP in bottom corner of a closer/zoomed-in shot of the break/flip/hook point (whatever you want to call it). Bright mixed colored balls are easier to see but always thought it'd be fun to see the "action" of ball up close. Of course that might mean more equipment and editing but just throwing it out there. Keep up the great work.

[@LuisNapoles]

I can try to work that into my videos!

[@chrishuffman3030]

Another great video... a pin-up and pin-down Nova, or a Gem video would be interesting. Love the educational videos. You do a great job explaining the details and not making them too complicated.

[@LuisNapoles]

In this video I was reviewing them Gem and I have a pin up one and a pin down one as well kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIGXfYCvf715ibs

[@Footymadog]

Always come back to your content mate. Getting a zen delivered in the next day or two. I,m going to get it pin down as I have a pin up Phaze 4. Hoping they compliment each other. Cheers mate.

[@LuisNapoles]

I hope you love it!!

[@fanoir9030]

I have a pin up zen that looks more or less like the placement you have on your pin up zen and I personally love it. Thank you for the comparison vid!

[@LuisNapoles]

It’s so good !

[@jimcosshaveden5259]

Great video. I have only had 1 pin down ball. It was an OG Melee with a 1" pin with a weight hole. Loved that ball. With my high track my PSO is afraid to drill pin down for me due to possibly clipping the thumb hole. Keep up the good work buddy!

[@LuisNapoles]

I miss the holes!

[@StacyCrapo]

Thank you for this video!

[@LuisNapoles]

You’re welcome!

[@braig8481]

Form lookin effortless brotha👍👍👍

[@LuisNapoles]

TRYING!!!!

[@billylusk7207]

Great video, and explanation. I would like to see more educational videos, like about the fronts being burned up, how to read what your ball is doing, etc.

[@LuisNapoles]

Great suggestion!

[@tated9350]

Finally someone made it so clear for me to understand

[@LuisNapoles]

YES!!! I'm so glad you can understand it! Thanks for sharing that with me!

[@FamilyKicks]

Great content bro and I want to see more layouts on bowling balls👍👍

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for that! More to come!

[@Been_Crafty]

This helps me out a lot! Thank you. I have the Zen Soul and sometimes I hate how early it reads so this helps me understand better

[@LuisNapoles]

im glad this helped!

[@keithjuchem2528]

Great video. I would love to see the Gem in this format.

[@LuisNapoles]

Its not the same format but in this video I am comparing a pin up gem to a pin down gem! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIGXfYCvf715ibs

[@georgeweier9710]

I bought a Zen with the pin down I know you had it at 70 but my pro said oh I wouldn’t go that far so he said it at 40 so I’m still enjoying the gym paying up and I’m waiting for a chance to use the Zen pen down and I’ll do that at practice and I enjoy your your educational videos very much showing me where you throw it and how are you throw it and moving left to right really helps me a lot thank you

[@LuisNapoles]

The 40 put your pin down?

[@JLH_LetsPlay]

Great video, please do more educational type videos. I usually start out with my Obsession (pin up) because it's more aggressive through the fresh oil, as the oil starts to go away I switch to my Black Widow 2.0 (pin down) to the end. I love watching my BW 2.0 go down the lanes because it looks so smooth and graceful and it's so easy to control. I actually prefer the pin down overall.

[@LuisNapoles]

I def wanna do more of these educational type videos! Thanks for sharing that!

[@thomasgorman1535]

Being, before knee and shoulder, 190s average and after surgeries well below, I only had one assistant pro shop serviceman watch how I threw to make suggestions. I had one who tried to help me with my middle finger issue. RH, finger was injured at 1½ years old. Starting from hand first joint is normal and straight, to the next joint my finger goes right about 5°, then from last joint finger goes goes left about 5° with a slight twist cw. It seems in my area, unless you're considered a premiere bowler, few have time for you. This is why I really enjoy informative demonstrations like yours. I love the data and explanations and examples that go with it. Speaking for me and other bowlers like me who enjoy bowling and the science are starving for more like you did here. It would be great to see you show the very basics through the adjustments of ball selection examples, bowling strategies, and ball and hand adjustments with real demos along with the numbers and science, please. Now regarding my middle finger issue above, if you know a bowler, coach, or pro shop operator, I wonder if you could get me some advice, recommendations of how I should proceed. The last finger joint is starting to get arthritis with pain, after I've finished my set and it lasts days now. I had a pro shop operator try a pitch change for it, but no relief. Should I change it to a conventional finger hole, or plug it and drill a hole for index and/or pinky finger, or drill the 2 fingers with one hole to try and get relief. I've been able to make changes through all my injuries and surgeries. I love bowling and perish the thought of quiting because I can't make a work around. Any thoughts or suggestion are appreciated. Thank you for your demo, and hoping it's not your last. ThomG

[@LuisNapoles]

It definitely will not be my last!! Thanks for the support!

[@shoobybikes1728]

Another great video Lou!! My son got the same reactions with his pin up and pin down Altered Reality. He has been looking for something that would get down the lane rather than always reading to early and the pin down was his favorite. Check out his review at 2 Handed Ball Reviews. Keep it up Lou!!

[@LuisNapoles]

Will do!

[@stormb28]

Thanks for putting this out. TOO MANY PROSHOPS out here slap a pin up layout on a ball and still thinks it “goes long an flips” pin up balls are actually earlier.

[@LuisNapoles]

Soooooooooo many shops do that! With not a lot of education out there!

[@carlriley6403]

Nice video and y7es that pin down did look great, I never use to use a pin down layout but over the last few years I think I like them much more than pin up

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks!

[@joewiencek7360]

Interesting I just ordered the hustle camo and been wondering how to drill it. I might go pin down. I would love to see pin up pin down vid on the camo!! Great video

[@LuisNapoles]

I need to throw that ball more!

[@jimlogan2610]

Loved the video on Pin up and Pin down on the Global Zen. Love to see this on the new Storm Infinite Physix and the Global 900 Wolverine Dark Moss. Please show us the board ##'s you start on for your feet and the board ##'s you are targeting. You Rock. Best Videos I have ever seen on bowling. Keep up the great work.

[@LuisNapoles]

I did this on the gem a while back. It’s hard to get 2 of every ball! Though I want to

[@kylemc8851]

Super helpful vid! Your slide is butter!! Proton, P2 or Pha4e would be cool!

[@LuisNapoles]

Always working on it!

[@mikecolon3489]

Great video!!..Really like that pin down motion. Would like to see this comparison on the original Reality. I'm very interested in what the pin down motion on it would look like. Appreciate the visual explanation!!

[@LuisNapoles]

I dont have one an a reality but I have it on a roto grip gem if that helps! kzbin.info/www/bejne/eIGXfYCvf715ibs

[@autodoson1]

Now I know. Up vs Down can be relative to surface. As a beginner to advanced bowler I do agree with the surface and hand position aspect of bowling. Glad I watched this video before I began creating my new arsenal. I will definitely consider having a pin down ball for my house bowling league shot. Thank you Very Much.

[@LuisNapoles]

I’m glad this could help!!

[@ITZxxterrell02]

I suggest doing a phaze 2 and Zen with a little surface comparison. For me they are similar but compliment really well. Love the video brotha.

[@LuisNapoles]

Great suggestion!

[@michaelw_yee]

Ive only drilled one ball in my arsenal pin down but loving it so far. Way more controlled and i can play straighter longer. Definitely gonna drill more balls pin down in the future

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea I mean its all about what kinda motion you're looking for! Surface will always be the biggest factor but the layout can def help!

[@7803bigart]

Yes these videos are great for reference.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thank you!!

[@danlorwil083175]

Would love to see a pin up (70 x 3.5" x 20) vs pin down (40 x 4.25" x 75) comparison with an asymmetrical like the Altered Reality. Also, how about demonstrating a short pin layout on either the Altered Reality or the Zen (ex: 90 x 2.25" x 45, 90 x 1.25" x 45) as compared to a standard pin up layout (ex: 70 x 3.5" x 20, 45 x 4" x 35).

[@LuisNapoles]

Dam thats a lot of balls to drill LOL

[@dansbowling8879]

@@LuisNapoles +1 to the AR but i already entered my vote for the Helios...lol

[@clintonkahler2082]

@@LuisNapoles maybe let us know what you have pin up and we can say oh do this one pin down or vice versa...do you have a normal preference?? All my balls have been pin up after watching this I think I need to consider a few pin down...thanks for the good content 👍👏

[@GoGoated_]

Yes or even the gem

[@williampiscitello6394]

Could you do this with a Proton Physics? I have a pin down Zen, love it

[@MetalCityShadow]

Amazing video, super helpful! Would be interesting to see pin up and pin down on an asymmetric ball.

[@LuisNapoles]

I’ll work on that! Thanks!!

[@bowlerpba1]

Very good video

[@LuisNapoles]

Thank you Pedro!!

[@gofortyninerss]

Luis, you put out the best ball reviews and I particularly like this one. All of my balls are pin up as is my Zen. I'm thinking maybe I'll try pin down on my next ball. Aiming on getting a Gem to complement my pin up Reality.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thank you for that!!!

[@nickbabin5884]

Keep these Educational video's up, I would say ball motion is more or less covered across KZbin, I find lane surface and those affects along with how the oil machines work aren't clearly explained any where's, ball motion, drilling, surface, ball maintenance and the main topics I feel are covered, but lanes, lane oils, oil machines are covered almost no where's! Keep up the good work!

[@LuisNapoles]

I’ll keep ‘em coming!

[@stellaraudioaz]

My pin down Rogue Assassin is my go to when I need a ball to be a little slower off the spot. Love the motion I get.

[@LuisNapoles]

Nice! Been a long time since I seen you comment on here James!

[@ConnorLorber]

Luis, it'd be great if you did an overview video on ball maintenance. What you use to clean your balls (if you do) before you put them away, how you deoil your ball, when/if to resurface it, etc.

[@LuisNapoles]

I can def work on that!

[@marvellbinnamin7960]

Thanks for the video and the information. If possible can you do a pin up, pin down comparison with the Reality thanks and keep up the good work.

[@LuisNapoles]

I can try!

[@williamlassiter9673]

Hey Luis, hope you are well. So sorry for being late to this video love the info you presented. Would love to see if you could do one for the Motiv blue tanks as I have one of each. Again I know I am late but really trying to learn this game as I have more time to dedicate to learning as much on the lanes as off. Be blessed

[@LuisNapoles]

So I’m on staff with 900 global so I’m only allowed to throw global storm and Roto

[@Kawboy65]

The best technical aspect of the video was showing how the large val angle "tightens" up the flare rings. It would be interesting to see a video showing the flare ring difference due strictly to pin length.

[@LuisNapoles]

I could try!

[@Inquire703]

Yes, more videos with pin up and pin down. Very educational. Do you think hand movement create the same ball motion down the lane?

[@LuisNapoles]

Not really sure!

[@Skeer0]

I really wish I watched this video before drilling my new HyRoad. I told the pro shop staff I wanted a smoother more predictable finish that would react a little bit further down lane and they ended up drilling it pin up a good 3 inches above my right ring finger...this ball now seems to react almost immediately as it hits the lane and seems very bad for my style.

[@LuisNapoles]

Knowledge is power!

[@markbroad119]

Did they still your ball wrong? Sounds exactly opposite of what you wanted

[@Skeer0]

@@markbroad119 yeah they said "you don't want a pin down ball, trust me"

[@hotshoer916]

All the vids ive seen say do not drill symetrical ball pin down without a balance hole.

[@bned-hv3of]

This is a great vid. Would like to see this with the Reality if possible.

[@LuisNapoles]

I did it with the Gem if that helps?

[@douglaskonas2852]

Thanks for the info and bonus shots Luis! I’m thinking an asymmetrical pearl like the Altered would be interesting to compare. Also, I use the Gem on my fresh house shot. What would you suggest to get into once they break down? I’m thinking a pin down Zen is the ticket!😉

[@LuisNapoles]

I wanna try an altered pin down!

[@douglaskonas2852]

@@LuisNapoles Thanks for you replies! What would you suggest on burnt house conditions after the Gem? Thinking a pin down Zen but worried it would be too reactive. Need to make a purchase from your link and would like a suggestion. Wolverine?

[@gregkelly2971]

great stuff as always, i would love to see a video with the black cherry tropical surge hybrid with surface change. For me being such a high rev bowler im relagated to extreamly high rg balls and even a ball like the camo is to much most of the time. Also there is just like a lack of any sort of review for that ball and it being a low priced hybrid i would love to see you review it.

[@LuisNapoles]

If I drilled one it would be mostly useless :(

[@flinch622]

The best explanation of this... comes from the bowling ball itself: moving oil rings are proof of axis migration. Pin up or down changes that behavior/bowtie pattern, and as mentioned rg differences between drilled balls will hook differently. Initial throw begins at a point of instability, and the art is how best to match that to lane conditions - it shows up in the flare pattern. Personally, I am plagued with low axis tilt, that often means pin down is more forgiving.

[@LuisNapoles]

Yup!

[@molockridge8696]

I have a pin down zen and I definitely see where there’s more room to miss. Seems to hold midland really well when missing in, at least for me

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea I love it on house so much!

[@ALFAJERKBFH]

Awesome vid 👍 I recently got into bowling again and I bought a black widow 2.0 hybrid (pin up). Then I bought a black widow legend (pin down), because I'm hooked on bowling. I even got a pink Widow urethane drilled for my left hand. I've bowled lefty a bunch of times before, but not with a hook. I want to hook it now.

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks!

[@kevinbartley2362]

Great video. I would like to see this comparison with the purple hammer.

[@LuisNapoles]

The diff on that ball is so low it wouldn’t make much of a difference

[@Alldayertexas]

Great video! Pin down if I was through one-handed. I'm guessing for a two-hander that would be a short pin maybe. Still enjoyed watching and love your content. Great job

[@LuisNapoles]

Thanks for that Robert!

[@justinedward81]

Like the info and was helpful thank you. I been using in league, Code Red by Storm and a Rubicon by Roto Grip. Might not like too, but would be nice to see some about those balls.

[@LuisNapoles]

I’d love to! But they are discontinued and I do T have them:(

[@justinedward81]

Damn, id let you use mine but i need them. I look forward to more videos from you. Also my girlfriend is on my team for league and she uses the zen master

[@StephenLella]

This is super useful! I'd like to see these comparisons with some tape on the ball, to see how it rolls. Also, could you do this with asym solids? I'd love to see the differences of a pin up vs pin down Reality.

[@LuisNapoles]

Oh smart! I like that!

[@douglaskonas2852]

Stephen, check out Luis’ Gem vid…he does a pin up/down breakdown.

[@Norsebowling]

Love your videos! Could you do a dark code pin up and pin down?

[@LuisNapoles]

I don’t have a pin down dark code unfortunately 😭😭

[@curtispetit986]

Luis, you do some great videos on your channel. You have a bunch of videos where your equipment is drilled pin up or pin down. What about a drilling where the pin is level with the fingers? What kind of differences would you get out of that?

[@LuisNapoles]

I’m not 100% sure on this but I imagine it would be more neutral

[@SirGenesis206]

I’m just seeing this video now as I’m trying to get back into bowling and actually learn the technical/science side of the game. I’m 1000% a pin down bowler. I’m a high rev bowler and every strong ball lives in Brooklyn for me so anything I can do to make a ball a little weaker is a win for me lol

[@LuisNapoles]

High rev players will love the pin down motion!

[@oldmancank4174]

Great vid. Maybe the nova would be good to see

[@LuisNapoles]

I wanna drill a second Nova!

[@oldmancank4174]

@@LuisNapoles that would give u a good reason to lol

[@willywoon88]

@Luis Napoles Great video! Can do a video on how to differentiate ball motion such as hooking early in the release as it looked similar to me?

[@LuisNapoles]

I dont really know how I would do that. To me in re watching this video its pretty clear the differences

[@rodennis418]

I'd love to see this taken one step further adding long and short pin layouts. (maybe 900G would help with some Reality Checks for that super comparison?) :)

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea I’m working on that!

[@roycealbanyeden]

Look into getting a run cam with a 25 mm lens and set up to watch the lane. This camera is already zoomed in and will help with seeing the Ball down lane

[@LuisNapoles]

Who’s gonna pay for that?! 😂😂😂

[@roycealbanyeden]

@@LuisNapoles thankfully they aren't too expensive. I think under 200

[@roycealbanyeden]

@@LuisNapoles I bought one years ago for another hobby and it works really well

[@clintharris8818]

Just picked up a new PD zen ❤️❤️

[@LuisNapoles]

NICE!

[@JonnieHollywood]

As you stated, pin up vs pin down affects motion minimally. Change surface to get the reaction you want.

[@LuisNapoles]

Facts!

[@gregm7362]

Luis, would love to see you do this comparison between a Proton Physics pin up and pin down. I’m with you and like a smoother ball on the back, but I don’t want to lose the strength in the Proton Physics. Thanks in advance!

[@LuisNapoles]

Challenge accepted

[@gregm7362]

@@LuisNapoles Thank you so much Luis! Because of your quick response, I’m going to wait to get mine punched so I know which way to go from your review. You do outstanding work and I appreciate you!

[@sneedtw]

really good info, I did not think the pin down would look better from zone three but it did would have loved to see you go another zone are two to really push the limits so we could see the difference I think maybe the pin up would win another zone left but I don't know?

[@LuisNapoles]

That pin down Zen has been 💰💰💰

[@janetburrell6513]

I've never tried pin down but really like it here. Can you do a video like this with the blue coral venom?

[@LuisNapoles]

After I left Motiv I signed with 900 Global so I’m only allowed to throw balls in the SPI umbrella

[@aidigitalmarketing46]

Luis, My bowling coach taught me Pin Down is just above the THUMB - HOLE. There is a big advantage. The ball hooks the same but it holds the line as it rolls to the pocket, the ball will never over hook. Paul Klanecky

[@LuisNapoles]

That’s to generic cause it’s based on pin to pap

[@aidigitalmarketing46]

@@LuisNapoles What does pin to pap means ? I heard its because the softness of the ball. Very confusing

[@pg9831]

What is your PAP Luis? I'm guessing around 4 over, 1/2 up?...Consider a straighter up the back release for high track bowlers along with your normal lower track release to help ppl see a reaction difference with pin up vs pin down in future videos. Always good stuff 👍

[@LuisNapoles]

I am 4.25 over by 1/8 up

[@aaronspringborn34]

Hi, yes please. I need your advice on something as much as this is a fascinating topic of bowling balls as a science for me as a beginner. I want my first custom bowling ball. I’ll probably get a storm I want something that is versatile and I can control it and I want to go straight. I’d like to eventually in time learn how to hook the ball which one would you recommend and why for future videos just like this for pin up and pin down how should my first bowling ball be? My favorite ones that you reviewed and I like are the phase II and the pitch black pinup and pin down video please

[@LuisNapoles]

check out the Zen or Phaze 2

[@CasualGamerPlays]

Thanks for the video! This helps a lot, as i've asked so many people about this and no one could answer this question. Most of my bowling balls are pin up and go long which is what i've been told. From your video though, i'm guessing that is incorrect??

[@bastardiniho]

the term "goes long" is relative. Oil amount, rotation, speed exact pin distance to PAP, the list goes on. The point of the video is to show you what a pin down would do differently for you or vice versa. if you feel l ike your pin up goes "long" and flips as it is, drilling another the same but pin down would make it have a tendency to be even cleaner through the front going even longer before it flips, and possibly give you a smoother shape once it did.

[@LuisNapoles]

I pin up drilling will increase the Diff of the ball which will make the ball hook more which will make the ball respond faster to the friction. Which actually makes it earlier

[@ASUWoody]

I would love to see a comparison like this… Pin Down Asym vs Pin Down Sym Pin Up Asym vs Pin Up Sym For ball motion comparisons

[@LuisNapoles]

Interesting!

[@paulbass5955]

Cool video. Could you do the Nuclear Cell? Pin up vs pin down?

[@LuisNapoles]

I don’t have oke and since it’s discontinued I don’t have access to one

[@paulbass5955]

Ok I just thought I'd ask, everything I own is pin up, and my brother got me a IQ Tour Nano Pearl for Christmas and it cracked with less than 20 games on it, but he gave me his Nuclear Cell and it's a pin down and I would have liked to see a comparison, Thanks anyway and I enjoy all your videos

[@donrichter9859]

Luis, in one of your prior videos (6/24/21) titled "Why I hardly (hardly, hardly) ever drill a ball pin down", you did not like pin down because it lowered the differential and could not be adjusted with a weight/balance hole as they were no longer allowed as of 8/1/20. Just curious, weight/balance holes are still illegal, so what has changed your feelings in now liking pin down?

[@LuisNapoles]

My rev rate is substantially higher now than it was before!

[@jeremiegrund]

It’s also helpful to have a core with higher diff to start with when looking at pin down.

[@WN-ff4qb]

Hello Luis. I'm 66 returning to bowling after 42 years. When I bowled a lot, I had a Dick Weber All Star drilled conventional. Having lived in Europe the last 40 years I had to give up bowling because of the dearth of alleys. I'm now retired and want to start up again. The technological advances are mind boggling! Thanks for the clear explanation of pin up / down drilling patters w/o being too technical. The lanes here (in Switzerland) are really dry (oiled once a week, if deemed necesary!), so I'm thinking of buying either a Storm Tropical Surge or a Brunswick Twister drilled pin down conventional. Any thoughts? Thanks again and keep on making videos.

[@LuisNapoles]

Yea those weaker balls will definitely be advantageous

[@WN-ff4qb]

@@LuisNapoles Thanks for the imput! It's good to have confirmation that I'm on the right track.

[@dansbowling8879]

I'd like to see a Helios comparison. I am waiting to get my Helios drilled and not sure what to go with. I'm looking for something a little more controllable when everything is over/under and that might work on a longer challenge pattern

[@LuisNapoles]

Try the down one with a strong pin to pap

[@airammitchell682]

Love for you to show people same 2/3 numbers and change remaining. So VAL angle or pin buffer is done here. Now keep pin to pap and val same then change drill angle. Then finish with just changing pin to pap

[@LuisNapoles]

I'd love to do that but man thats a lot of bowling balls to drill lol

[@airammitchell682]

@@LuisNapoles thats fair! Figured you'd need to drill like 1 more zen with a different pin to pap and then 1 other ball that is an asym to adjust drill angle. But after writing that I realize that is a lot haha

[@michaelfinley9988]

So Luis, great video. Would having two of the same ball, one pin-up and one pin-down only be advantageous for the elite bowlers…say 220-230 average bowlers? I am a 200 average bowler and for me I am not consistent enough to justify buying two of the same ball. I’d rather have an entirely different ball to produce a different look. Now, I may drill another ball pin down for a certain lane condition. I have never drilled a pin down ball, so I am curious if I would notice any difference. May try it next time. Thanks Luis for another great vid. 👍

[@LuisNapoles]

I wouldn't consider myself an ELITE bowler and I find it very advantageous. See here's my thing if I LOVE the Zen then drilling another one can give me a different look with a ball you already know you love!

[@machinethesun9243]

I've never had a pin down ball, but I'm wondering if I'd like my Helios more if it was pin down... or at the very least, I'd get more use out of it if it was. If you do another video like this, could you do it with a solid ball on a lane that has had some play on it already. Thanks for your videos.

[@LuisNapoles]

I can def work on that!

[@brandonrobinson7517]

Wouldn't mind seeing a pin up vs pin down on the nova

[@LuisNapoles]

That would be dope!

[@georgeweier2108]

Yes, you should do that with different balls to see how it affects different balls but that’s a good idea

[@cwagner4704]

I love this , my gem is pin up and my other balls are drilled with the ring finger hole being right into the pin mark, ( does that make it neither up nor down)? But when I get my Zen I’m thinking I may wanna go pin down. Your explanation and comparison video are super and they make it easier to comprehend.

[@LuisNapoles]

I appreciate that!!

[@davidseeburger8448]

I think I like the pin down. Yes I like your videos.

[@LuisNapoles]

Me too!!!

[@nordattack]

Based on what I saw in your video, the Pin up was much cleaner, got further up the lane and held off till it got to the back, then came off the spot more suddenly, while I could see the Pin down digging in early and spreading its hook over the length of the lane which made it more continuous with a stronger overall motion. This makes sense of course since your second angle was 30 on the pin up which makes it sharper in the back and 75 on the pin down which makes it less sharp in the back and more continuous. Here is my understanding of dual angle layouts. On identical ball models, if the pin is placed the 'same distance from the PAP' on a Pin UP and a Pin Down ball, they will 'flare the same' though the location of the bowtie will be in a different spot causing a tiny effect in ball motion, but not enough to be noticed. The only factors affecting the difference in a Pin Up vs. Pin Down ball motion is the first and second angles. It is only when you change the first and second angles that the ball motions begin to diverge noticeably. I bet if you had put 75 on the pin up ball it would perform identically to the pin down ball. Dual Angles Explained: First Angle: How far the ball will get up the lane before it starts to slow down. Long Angles slow the ball down later. Short Angles slow the ball down sooner. Second Angle: How sharp the ball will be in to backend. Long Angles make the ball less sharp Short Angles make the ball sharper Pin to Pap distance: 3 3/8" produces max flare and earliest reaction. Shorter or longer than 3 3/8" pin to pap distances make the ball flare less and be later in the lane.

[@LuisNapoles]

There's zero way the pin down zen was earlier than the pin up one LOL

[@nordattack]

@@LuisNapoles The layout and the video say otherwise to my eye. But the best way to do a video like this is to throw one ball after another so the differences are more clear rather than 5 shots with one and 5 shots with another. Just go back and forth with each ball for 6 total shots on each zone, then the differences will be more apparent.

[@machinethesun9243]

One more question please: can you describe what type of bowlers benefit from pin up and pin down? For example, what is best for speed dominant vs. rev dominant or does it matter? What about someone who is matched up? And what about pattern length? Does it matter on a 39 house shot vs. a 44 foot?

[@LuisNapoles]

All bowlers can. Bowling balls are tools and we have to use them at the right time!

[@mikedavis9326]

great video! i'm curious if this layout works the same with no thumb bowlers?!

[@ThePacerTest]

I would also like to know! Most educational video ive watched in months lol

[@LuisNapoles]

For no thumbers I would lean towards the 2LS system

[@mikedavis9326]

Would you recommend a 4x4x4 2LS to start on this Gem? Would that be a good starting point?

[@scottaustin4015]

Do altered reality pin up vs pin down

[@LuisNapoles]

I like it!

[@robertfoor3309]

I learned my pin down may help me when the transition takes place in the second game. . MAYBE MY DARK CODE is amazing in the first and third game but I lose tin the second game. Hope to try it

[@LuisNapoles]

Transition is the hardest part of bowling!

[@Rocketman9mm]

I have an old cyclone fireball from ebonite that i use with pretty much the shot of your first shot at 3:08. It's pretty well dead so I'm looking to replace it. I'm thinking about getting a phaze II or a black widow 2.0 hybrid. would those work? I tend to like a smoother hook so should I go pin down?

[@LuisNapoles]

smoother ball def the P2

[@tnjrcfl1]

Absolutely. How about the Nova? Mines pin up and really considering a pin down. I know selfish but hey you asked bro 😆 🤣

[@LuisNapoles]

I like my pin up nova!

[@joemorales3035]

Hey Luis, just to confirm, pin down is longer and smoother and pin up is earlier and more backend? I had it backwards if that is the case.

[@LuisNapoles]

That is correct. Old thinking would say the opposite but science don’t lie

[@bowlingxp8345]

Nice simple explanation, good job ! (not relevant for this video nitpick : those 2 balls looked much more shiny than 3000). The flare rings were not very different, and i wonder if it even plays a role since in both cases no oil ring was on top of another, so the amount of fresh ball surface in each revolution is the same. This is why their overall ball motion was very very close. On high Diff balls, the increase in differential has to be very big to create an easily visible ball motion difference. Ron at CtD made a video on this sometime ago, and it was almost impossible to figure out which ball was the pin up and which was the pin down.

[@LuisNapoles]

I don’t agree that the flare rings were similar. Also they 100% were 3000

[@bowlingxp8345]

@@LuisNapoles Αbout the flare rings : i am not using the word "identical", but "similar", as in not much difference. In any case do you agree that in neither ball one ring was on top of another/ About the surface : how do you know 100% that it was 3000 ? I have never seen a 3000 shine so much.