The SECOND FOUNDING and EVERY Space Marine Chapter it Created! | Warhammer 40,000 Lore

[@Nomand55]

The 2nd founding was always so interesting to me. Its basically the heroes of the heresy establishing their own chapters.

[@collecter343]

Fun to look up characters as you go through the Heresy books and realize “Wait, these guys formed their own Chapters”

[@Xick]

Or... probably the other way around for most of them: Long-existing chapters getting new founding heroes as prequels were written.

[@farplaine]

Yeah most of these heroes were created for the heresy series and based on the chapters that already existed in 40k. It’s a nice way to tie them together but I do think they tend to make the successor chapters less interesting than more to be honest. They took chapters with specific traits, then created a hero character that personified those traits and they become the founding chapter master. Rather than diverging over time to develop their own character, they just took on the traits of their master. *shrug* just seems less interesting to me

[@tridonstrident6785]

@@farplaine I think it depends how many of the total Space Marine Chapters got turned into second-founding. If enough were left as later founding Chapters that came about as you described, I think it's fine.

[@MobiusCoin]

Now I'm just imagining some kid at some recruitment fair and there's like a thousand different Space Marine recruiters, each in their differently coloured power armour, handing out flyers and trying to get the kid into the tent to watch their hype video being like "forget the Ultramarines, you really want to be a Space Shark!"

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

That’s such a fun image omg

[@malcadorgaming9318]

If it would be that easy there would be way more astartes around. Sadly you have to be a real anime protagonist to be even considered as a recruit. Then go through insane trails and survive the progress of becoming an astartes

[@maturin1919]

But seriously, forget the f**king Ultramarines.

[@sargonixofur1234]

“So young man, you finally admit you’re a Furry?” “Erm… yes sir, it’s really embarrassing….” “Excellent, welcome aboard the Space Wolves!”

[@angusjamieson9236]

I just got on a 3 hour bus ride, this could not have come at a better time

[@sergiocrowe9848]

Warhammer lore is perfect for long-ass bus journeys!

[@daveeol1987]

Enjoy

[@heralds]

You got 2 hours leftover

[@Nemeroth888]

1 hour to go, watch it a third time?

[@freddie4901]

This guy is on a blackship

[@Yurt_enthusiast7]

I always liked that the DA simply painted their armour in different colours and then kept on like earlier

[@ArbitorIan]

Don't forget to keep quiet about the Firewing and Dreadwing. They wouldn't like those!

[@JoeMagician]

All these space marine chapters that picked some variation of skulls as their sigil probably need to watch that Mitchell and Webb sketch "Are we the baddies?". Although I suspect a lot of the chapters would answer proudly "Yes we are".

[@ThorGiske]

A lot were the destroyer chapters of the legions

[@OljeiKhan]

Calling an Astartes "bad" or "evil" or anything of the sort would get you a blank stare or I AM WRATH! I AM FURY! I AM HIS VENGEANCE, DELIVERED! I AM THE SKIES OF YOUR WORLD TORN ASUNDER! I AM DESTRUCTION UNCHAINED! I AM THE BREAKER OF GODS AND THE SLAYER OF KINGS! I HAVE NO NEED OF YOUR PATHETHIC *COMPLIMENT* PUNY MORTAL!

[@Xick]

I always thought the skull thing was a symbol of the decaying Imperium's morbid death worship embodied by their horrible Corpse Emperor, but it turns out the Empire does that in Fantasy too, and they have perfectly alive emperors and a founder who went out to buy milk one day and never had his death recorded.

[@Pipes7472]

@@Xickthat’s a good take. I think the emperor says it has to do with something that even in its morbid form, humanity is beautiful. Or someone

[@TheCityofTownsville]

Since Guilliman has returned, he should be able to recall (from memory) his UltraLedger of all Second Founding chapters.

[@bentilbury2002]

Be funny if Johnson owns up to Guilliman about Luther and his rebellion, and Guilliman goes, "oh *that* old story, yeah we all knew about that, bad show... what about it? I hope your boys haven't been worrying about that all this time?". 😁

[@disposable157]

"Did you think no-one noticed you blew up your own home world? You know, the thing the Night Lords got censured for?"

[@903lew]

”Yeah bruv, shit happens innit? Yeah whatevs, I had some of mine go rogue, what-cha-gonna-do?”

[@Hewrin88]

Would love to see Asmodai's face when this happens

[@Nobody-zl3kk]

@@Hewrin88 Have you seen the video of the skeleton with its mouth wide open and then it collapses into the ground? yeah that.

[@ZaKRo-bx7lp]

1000 marines always seemed too low, but it makes sense if you think of them as raiding shock troops instead of being the main force like in the heresy or the Great Crusade

[@lazyc0mmander277]

A thousand marines per chapter is fine, especially if you consider there can always be multiple chapters present on a front if need be. It's that there are supposed to be only a thousand chapters that seem ridiculous. Even if we take the idea of a million imperial worlds, that still leaves about a thousand that need to be protected by each chapter.

[@WozWozEre]

Exactly, hyper elite shock troops more like reusable cruise missiles than feontline infantry? Yep, 1000 is perfectly reasonable. Dumbass BL fiction showing them doing the Guards job of fighting chaff on pointless frontlines and taking casualties all over? Yeah we need more than 1000. If only GW/BL were more consistent in how they portrayed them in lore.

[@Nukefandango]

It's still really, really low regardless, but sci-fi writers have always struggled with scale.

[@SmokesKwazukii]

It feels way too low for former legions like the Blood Angels, Imperial Fists and even the Ultramarines. There just seems to be way fucking more of those guys than 1000

[@ZaKRo-bx7lp]

@SmokesKwazukii Progenitor chapters have a bunch of closely aligned successor chapters or extra companies that are at their beck and call at any time. Blood Angels pretty much were nearly at legion strength at the defence of Baal.

[@nakenmil]

I've noticed that one of the (many) things the Horus Heresy novels have influenced about the 40k fandom is that people nowadays, especially newer entrants, tend to think of Space Marines much more in terms of the Legions than they latch onto Chapters. Back in the 90s and 00s the legion geneseed was obviously an element, but you could just as well obsess about the Black Templars, Crimson Fists, Mantis Warriors, Flesh Tearers, Lamenters, or any of the other wacky 21st Founding chapters, or even the goddamn Legion of the Damned (not actually a legion). I kinda miss when not EVERYTHING was seen through the lens of the HH.

[@armata_strigoi_0]

I agree. It's conflicting, because some of the best fluff is from Heresy, but when you zoom out and see the big picture, I think it was a mistake to explore it so thoroughly. To go on a slight tangent, the bigger issue to me is that it's created something of a "forest for the trees" effect, by focusing the eye of the observer through the lens of character-driven narrative. IMO, 40K is not a place for characters who are agents of the world. Their agency should be self-contained because they're reactionary, the world acts upon them and not the other way around. There may have been a time of grand, world-changing heroes, but it has long since passed into myth. Now they're just our view into this place, in some ways just observers like we are. Candles scattered in the darkness. Or to put it more simply lol, setting rather than narrative.

[@nakenmil]

@@armata_strigoi_0 I agee. If the Imperium is intended as a dystopia (and it is), then it's a lot easier to create sympathetic protagonists when they're essentially powerless to improve things. They're trying to stay afloat amidst the cruel whim and horrific structures of the Imperium and wider galaxy, just barely holding on. But when you make 40k more character-driven, with powerful characters who are in a position to actually change things, like Guilliman, it becomes a bit harder to treat the Imperium as something that's just there, as it were. It goes from being something that shapes the characters to something the characters shape. Should people expect the Imperium to gradually improve now that more sympathetic characters are in charge? I'm honestly not sure what GW has in mind, they seem to flip-flop a little from book to book. I don't expect the Imperium to ever turn into a NICE place, but I worry that they'll lean into the whole narrative that the Imperium is only bad because of outside influences and not its own utterly corrupt, self-serving and hidebound elites as well.

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

@@nakenmilI don’t think they’ll ever go that route. If there’s one thing that’s been kept consistent is that the Imperium is an evil entity. There are good people in it, and even good factions, but overall it’s still a warmongering, authoritarian, needlessly cruel regime who started because one guy wanted to control everything. Even Gulliman and the Lion are starting to come to terms with how messed up the crusade was.

[@nakenmil]

@@aguywithalotofopinions412 I think the issue is that we have major power-players that are aware, in-universe that the Imperium is shooting itself in the foot and isn't justified a lot of the time. This implies that they're going to try and change it, doesn't it? Guilliman has already kinda started. We now have a bunch of characters in the High Lords that are presented as kinda competent and even kinda sympathetic, whereas previously the High Lords were generally presented as mostly just working to amass power for their own insitutution at the cost of the wider imperium.

[@aguywithalotofopinions412]

@@nakenmil And is that bad?

[@BlastastiC]

Brazen Claws enjoyer here. I like their Iron Hands nutter-ness and the colour scheme blue + red + white, they look like a War of the Roses House of York historicals army. The Brazen Claws also have their roots in the Clan Morragul, though they are specifically the 34th clan company, so they also have a pre 2nd founding heritage. This is why their heraldry is also (confusingly) the red talon.

[@Yacovo]

Angels of Absolution: The First Legion successor chapter that got all the Legion's therapists. Thanks for the video.

[@Bluecho4]

The Silver Skulls "definitely not Iron Warriors" illustrates that at least some of the 2nd Founding chapters might have actually been loyalist members of traitor legions. Given new designations as a way of obscuring their origins, so they could be returned to the Imperial fold with minimal friction. During the post-Heresy years, there was bound to be lots of lingering resentment and paranoia about traitors. So being able to erase the histories of those Blackshield warbands would have sidestepped the issue. Perhaps posted to far-flung territories, away from those loyalist legions with considerable animosity towards their traitorous parents. While some of these chapters might have continued doing their own thing in terms of organization, others likely hewed very close to the Codex Astartes. Reasoning that they couldn't afford suspicion.

[@jaredwasserman1092]

The difference is we have out of setting statements from the authors that the Silver Skulls are fully Ultramarines.

[@Kubulin24]

They still can be tribute to Dantioch. He earned honors post mortem from Guilliman. Why not a chapter heraldry, right?

[@GoldenKaos]

⁠​⁠@@jaredwasserman1092 And imo they shouldn’t have said that and ruined the mystery, so I disregard it.

[@jaredwasserman1092]

@@GoldenKaos By mystery do you mean how people were saying they were Iron Warriors explicitly with zero evidence? Or how half the community hears, "Implied/rumored" and interprets it as, "Absolute fact?"

[@GoldenKaos]

@@jaredwasserman1092 The community take the ball and run with it on wild theories all the time, and as they should. Theorycrafting and joining in by creating your version of the Warhammer setting(s) - YourHammer - and sharing headcanon is an integral part of the Hobby. Interpreting the Silver Skulls as Iron Warriors loyalists is a neat fit and a popular headcanon. In 40k of all settings there should be room for contradicting accounts and mysterious origins, and I think it’s a mistake for a creator in that setting to see people get fired up about a cool alternative theory and then use the authoritative God Voice to pour cold water all over it.

[@Dustind1211]

Woah, a whole hour of listening to the Arbitor? What have we done to be blessed by such a wonderful gift! Praise the Arbitor for sharing such lovely lore with their incredible voice!

[@Frosty4427]

I always thought the Dark Angel's shame of the Fallen was funny. Every legion had traitor elements, but oh no, not the first. They promise.

[@Mugdorna]

The hubris of the 1st legion

[@kevinoliver3083]

The things the Dark Angels have done to keep their secret will be far more damaging, than just admitting that they had a few traitors.

[@collecter343]

I imagine it was small at first but because the Fallen kept on appearing over time, the DA’s actions to hide them snowballed into things being way worse than if they just admitted to having a few turned marines.

[@GoldenKaos]

They were definitely overly prideful about it, and secretive from the start, but I don’t think any of the other loyalist Legions went full 50/50 loyalist/traitor as the DA did. Plus at the time they were written, loyalists from Traitor Legions and traitors from Loyalist legions (during the HH) was a much rarer occurrence in the fluff. The DA being split down the middle was huge and unique, most of the work give other legions more shades of gray on this front came years later.

[@singtothesilence]

You know the kid who takes a bite from a cookie, but then it's obvious that one of the cookies has been eaten, so he takes a bite of every other cookie to try and cover his tracks? That's the dark angels to me.

[@kitsoskitsou]

Ah, the feeling I get when Arbitor Ian videos drop is like seeing Astartes droppods at a warzone as an imperial citizen

[@6dragondaddy913]

Wait, why are there spikes and weird symbols on those pods?

[@glandhound]

Most imperial citizen doubt that astartes even exist.

[@kitsoskitsou]

@@glandhound i want to believe :p

[@lorddashdonalddappington2653]

uuuh a sense of impending doom?

[@MrBoemmel]

Untill you see they're the Marines Malevolent xD

[@CrimsonTemplar2]

Excellent history lesson. I cooked up my DIY chapter during the Rogue Trader days & have tweaked its backstory over the editions. I went with the successor chapter to a successor chapter angle.

[@soupalex]

is your diy chapter named "the fighting tigers of veda"? 😃

[@ZaKRo-bx7lp]

Ian's lore dives are always so well researched. You can tell that he knows most of this by heart.

[@lucaswest5078]

Please could you cover the Cursed Founding soon?

[@Tsotha]

Would be interesting to see an Arbitor Ian video about the 21st, for sure! He would probably go in depth about how the lore surrounding it has changed between different editions of WH40K.

[@Warpwaffel]

And then there are the Space Sharks...um I mean Charcharodons. They may be a Second Founding (or older?) successor of the Raven Guard. Or maybe something completely different, who knows.

[@ArbitorIan]

Yeah I left them out because I think the consensus is that they just sorta showed up one day and people were like 'er...how about you be a chapter now?'

[@Ryan30z]

It's extremely heavily implied that they descend from Terran veterans of the Raven Guard who were banished by Corax

[@Bluecho4]

They're definitely not loyalist Night Lords. Totally.

[@TheSniperGTO]

Pretty sure they are Loyalist Night Lords. Nobody knows what happened to Sevatar. And several Night Lords were like Talos, in that they wanted to be a hero, and felt that brutality and terror, correctly applied to the proper recipients, was the best means of bringing justice. They are known as having black eyes, pale skin, and can operate unnaturally well in darkness, even for Astartes. They also rarely speak, but when they do, it’s in a soft, sibilant language that nobody understands. Since Nostraman was also described as a soft, sibilant language, and only one planet spoke it, and said planet was destroyed over 10,000 years ago, it seems plausible that the language the Carcharadons is speaking is Nostraman. Add to that their patchwork, cobbled together armor and equipment, and their incredibly violent, murderous, bloodthirsty tactics, I believe they are descendants of Night Lords who want to serve the Imperium, but are under no illusions that if their heritage was discovered, they would face annihilation, which is why they take such extensive measures to ensure their genetic history remains undiscovered. I doubt GW will ever definitively answer the question, so I make this theory based on available information. They may be a lost chapter of Iron Hands, or Death Guard, or remnants of one of the 2 Lost Legions. Believe what you want.

[@Dokari-l9m]

@@TheSniperGTO I’ve heard so many different theories, lore bits, and head cannons so I just rub with a simple idea. They are raven wing that adopted loyalists world eaters and night lords and mixed over the years.

[@peterhiggins2325]

Arbitor Ian's videos are definitely my favourite warhammer lore videos on youtube. Always so informative with a nice presentation style. I always come away with a greater appreciation of armies/factions I don't know much about or don't collect.

[@joaovitorreisdasilva9573]

Wait, writters actually made a homage to Carandiru? It was a massive prison in São Paulo, where a NASTY massacre of inmates occurred.

[@overseastom]

The grasp you have on all this lore is truly incredible. It sure seems like there's a *lot* of history & nuance to it all. You make a good video, brother.

[@seancorcoran26]

The Dark Angels "grave secret" that half their legion turned traitor is so funny nowadays where entire Chapters have had similar schisms or there are recent chapters that are heavily implied to be founded using traitor geneseed. I like to think that one day the Dark Angels realise how much time they wasted hunting the Fallen and keeping secrets when their dark secret is finally revealed and everyone just goes "Okay whatever we don't really care"

[@TaleNodati]

So Guilliman takes precaution that no one primarch can wield a lot of power. Yet irony upon irony. When he comes back in 40, he's pretty much given the rule of the Empire.

[@ThorGiske]

Hes the only one who should get it

[@Gee_359]

Thanks, love going through videos like these. The flesh tearers just confirm as the most hardcore Blood Angels chapter ever (and imo better than the original lol)

[@MortalCosta]

Here is where I get to shout out my chapter, Lets Go White Consuls!!! We are so cool we have two chapter masters Edit; I think both of them are dead though

[@Th3Shyguy]

Seeing the silver skulls is funny having listened to the infinite and the divine

[@UKscalemodeller]

An hour? An HOUR! Well I know where my evening is headed now 🙂

[@TheMrFishnDucks]

Great video. Informative and entertaining. Thank you for having great pacing, this went through smoothly. Keep up the good work.

[@redman18904]

Ian really putting in the work. You should get a shout out in some book as "remembrancer Ian" or "the Arbitor Archivist" or something man. Awesome work!

[@Clottedone]

Just finished a 12 hour shift…. And this is exactly what I needed

[@Tsotha]

Good job as usual Ian! Lots of information even I hadn't encountered - like 2nd founding chapters I've never heard of, or surprisingly in depth background for rather obscure chapters like the Novamarines.

[@haiironezumi]

Space Marines: Genetically engineered to be able to glean information from eating their enemies. Space Marine Lore: Eating enemies bad! Weird behaviour! No do!

[@PrimitiveBeast]

This should make a come back

[@samurairex7825]

40k kills me because realistically most legions would have like 10 successors at a minimum while others like the ultramarines should have well over 50 in the 2nd founding

[@ArbitorIan]

I mean, if the UMs were anywhere near there old size, they'd have 200 successors! But who knows, maybe they were all lost in the mists of time time time time....

[@soupordave]

@@ArbitorIan Or there were a lot more Renegade Space Marines out there than the Imperium would like to admit to...

[@jaredwasserman1092]

Part of this is the current legion numbers we have do not take into account losses taken during the Heresy. Plus there likely were plenty of other 2nd founding chapters that simply didn't survive to M41.

[@Bear-form]

​@@ArbitorIanThe chapter master would rule over 1000 Astartes. Decentralization.

[@richtheunstable3359]

Earlier lore on size of legions often mentioned 10,000 or 10s of thousands. Also had something like only 3 survivers of the drop site massacre. If Horus's forces are supposed to have breached the Emperor's inner palace during the siege you would expect those legions to have ridiculously high casualty rates

[@brunorochaleao]

The prison world of Carandiru is a deep cut of Brazilian recent history

[@michaelstevens5712]

A tremendous film as well.

[@aidanmckeown4791]

Wow, you're really uploading at an increased pace these days, love it!

[@ElCid_1099]

Great to see the Silver Guard get a mention. Really enjoyed this one and hoping you cover some of the other major foundings

[@totalCoolerUsername]

This is a lengthy one, very nice! Thanks Ian ^^

[@Hebwastaken]

I got a pain reliever advert just after you started talking about the Fists’ pain obsession 😂

[@Tejbegrizzly]

Holy fuck you uploaded it a day ago, I just started to exactly explore this topic as I want to see all the chapters. God bless dude!

[@MJC1891]

Man I recently found out about warhammer and it’s has some of the best lore there is.

[@Malky24]

Soul Drinkers lore is crazy if you really get into it. There's a whole video on it if you want to go that far.

[@DJC_8819]

Needed this video for around 20 years, emperor knows I LOVE THIS CHANNEL

[@Abir-cb4ii]

I love you dude especially for these Lore videos your just so good at it even when it's stuffs I already know.

[@saul6134]

Thanks for the vid, my marines are mainly charnel guard so its nice to see them mentioned!

[@gordlarson3917]

Absolutely amazing. This is a great video. Your channel really stands out with work like this. Thank you for all the hard work for our silly hobby. Cheers

[@michaelstrange2285]

Am I the only one who wants to paint up a marine from each of these Second Founding chapters? Thanks, Ian, for the video.

[@samlynch8760]

Absolutely LOVE your longer videos dude! Please keep it up!

[@Dustind1211]

Fantastic video! Would love to see an episode on the Cursed Founding and on the Pentarchy of Blood!

[@mkstarstorm8822]

This is a great Video! It would be cool to see something similar for chaos warbands.

[@sdzerog7166]

Really enjoyed this video, Ian. The one question I had. I didn't see the Praetors of Orpheus addressed as an Ultramarine 2nd founding chapter, though it's listed in several of the codexes and editions as a 2nd founding chapter (I believe the earliest instance was the 2nd edition Ultramarine codex). Have I missed updated lore that changed them?

[@docterfantazmo]

A Flesh Tearer was mad about the new rules, colour me surprised.

[@fujoyoshi4368]

The funniest thing about all these successor chapters is when you make up you own unique colour scheme only to find out its been done like 5 times

[@gninalex]

Your intro/outro song I find exceptionally moving

[@AlastairPaterson]

Great video. Really enjoy listening to your lore work whilst I’m working 👍

[@Pipes7472]

Blood angels “we should really hide our curse like the other legions have been doing and shroud our history with mystery” Also Blood angels: *creates chapter called the blood drinkers and flesh tearers*

[@alexandervega79]

Hi Ian, I’m not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet but you missed one of the successor chapters of the Dark Angels; the Guardians of the Covenant chapter. In fact they are my favorite successors of the DA. They took part in a number of cooperative missions with their founding chapter including the Siege of the Fenris system in ~999.M41. Their home world is Mortikah VII located in the Segmentum Pacificus sector, where they have their fortress monastery which resembles a large, gothic cathedral. They have a adopted a very monastic existence and this is even apparent in the choice of weaponry as they tend to use a lot maces, clubs and hammers for close combat. The Grand Master of their chapter is Master Himmaeus who has interacted with Supreme Grand Master Azrael on many occasions including in the Battle of Idolatros in part 5 of the Arks of Omen storyline. They wear red, black and silver with their iconography being two downward crossed swords which is the old symbol of the Deathwing during the Horus Heresy, minus the halo or ring encircling the swords. Their current strength is unrecorded but it is presumed to be in accordance with the Codex Astartes. They have only listed one of their ancient relics which is the Record of Oblivion which is a data tome that apparently has an extensive record of the many Xenos civilizations which the Imperium of Man has laid low. Hope this was informative.

[@ArbitorIan]

They're also from an unknown founding!

[@alexandervega79]

@@ArbitorIan Guardians of the Covenant? No sir, I’m certain they are successors of the Dark Angels.

[@HABmapper]

​@@alexandervega79Number of founding being the key operator, though.

[@alexandervega79]

@@HABmapper I’m not sure I understand. I assume you mean they’re young as far as successor chapters go. Like what year were they founded? Which I now see might’ve been what Ian also meant, at least I think 😅. Initially I misunderstood Ian thinking he meant to say their founders are unknown. My mistake. Regardless I very much enjoyed the video. Thank you for all the content you put out and please keep it up 👍

[@markman11111]

​@alexandervega79 yeah, the second founding refers to the successor chapters established *immediately* after the Heresy. Later chapters created are considered the third founding, fourth, and so on.

[@Tw0Three]

I always found it kind of poetic the Emporer that lived on earth through it's history entirely but yet used legions which have proved problematic with coups. The one primarch that is heavily influenced heavily on Roman astetics and lore was the one that said no more, break the legions up. It's fitting.

[@lloydjohns441]

I like it when Ian uploads new videos I enjoy watching them

[@August-p9g]

Me too, man

[@NicholasSisneros-g1c]

50+ mins of Ian is time well spent

[@republ33k]

Really fascinating video! Would love to see more about the other foundings, although they might not be as interesting as the second one!

[@richtheunstable3359]

Strange how the 2nd founding has changed over the years. Now it is enacted by an all powerful Regent, who simply thinks its a neat idea. When previously it was a comprimise between R.G and the high lords of Terra who saw the Astartes as a problem and were potentially against the idea of them rebuilding at all. It was space marines who wounded the Emperor and rore up the Imperium after all. I miss the days when the Imperium was supposed to as suspicious as much as they are in awe of the Astartes.

[@Rhyside]

Fun thing in lore is that, there is always place for more chapters. For example: If second founding split Legions in 1k strenght chapters. And we have only 3 official dark angels successors that means whole Horus Heresy survived only 4k dark angels. It is really low number. There is no official records about how many space marines survived in every Legion. So we can keep adding new and new 2nd founding chapters.

[@philipkelly7369]

Yeah it's meant to leave room for you to be able you invent your own guys and say "These are the Angels of Fightin' Real Good and they are a 2nd founding Dark Angel successor"

[@alexmikelson8529]

That's cool af , just started my dive into the lore !

[@london_TC]

You forgot the Master Baiters who's heraldry is a fist around a snake

[@dalgafaik966]

This was a genuinely lovely way to spend an hour, listening to the lore behind the different chapters that have always been on the periphery of my knowledge... and some surprises there for me (Sons of Medusa weren't 2nd Founding?!) but brilliantly put together. Would love to hear your thoughts on the Soul Drinkers novels, because I was not a massive fan, and really interesting that the Chapter has reappeared as Ultima founding...

[@hedonismbot3798]

"Never again would one person, even a Primarch, command as much power as the expeditionary fleets or legions of old." Roboute Guilliman returns: "Forget all that stuff, I'm in charge of the enormous Indomitus Crusade." No unilateral dictators!* *unless it's me! Just another example of the Imperium's hypocrisy! :D

[@Yandarval]

To be fair. Its his position of Imperial Regent/Lord Commander that gives him the authority. Not him being a Primarch. Someone has to be in charge of all Imperial forces. The in place humans are the time of his return have already proved they are not up to the job.

[@QuixoticCowboy]

To be fair, Guilliman is probably the only leader that isn't just the absolute worst and a net positive for not just the imperium but the galaxy as a whole.

[@hedonismbot3798]

@@Yandarval So you're saying it's his position of MASTER over the entire WAR effort that gives him the authority. Well I'm glad that someone thought to give a single man (primarch in this case) the power over the entire force. I hope there are no precedents in 40k history for that going wrong... :P

[@Yandarval]

@@hedonismbot3798 Hmm. More that he picked up the title he had had at the end of the Heresy, Lord Commander. This "nebulous" title, to me, looks to combine the top uniformed officer AND the political head of of all Imperial forces. Like the US Chairman of the Joint Chiefs and the Secretary of Defence rolled into one. He has the defacto title of Imperial Regent. As he had a chat with Big E and walked out in one piece. So the presumption by the Imperium, is Big E is fine with what he is doing. So he has the political authority of the head of state and Government too. From the state of the Imperium upon his return. The obvious corruption and lack of ability in the High Lords. Bobby G is the only one, Primarch or not. That could do the job singlehanded. Even he is suffering under the strain. In his mind. No one seems to be competent, loyal or selfless enough to be given any of the job roles. Empire building is why the Imperium is in the state it is. Bobby knows that the Tetrarch system would not wash on Terra. Astartes in charge like they are in Ultramar would cause another war. So having Astartes be given such political roles is out too. its mainly, due to being A. Bobby G, B. Primach and C. Emperor's son D. the Imperium's first real hope in millennia. That he has not got much pushback, apart from the initial fun with the High lords at the start. It says a lot about how those in power, are starting to see that he is their only hope of keeping the wolves from the door now.

[@hedonismbot3798]

@@Yandarval Oh I get the reasoning, and I even agree that for the Imperium to survive it makes sense to give him the job. I'm just pointing out that he was specifically against this level of power concentration when he had the job last time. And the Emperor also signed off on Horus, so his judgement is... provably flawed. But I think it does highlight that Imperium has always been a snake eating its own tail - even at the height of the Great Crusade there were the seeds of its own destruction (Emperor's mistreatment of the Primarchs and refusal to warn them about Chaos, trust in a single warmaster, and the structure of the legiones concentrating logistics and power). To me, 40k is a tragic, nihilistic setting, and these contradictions are what make it interesting!

[@gubgub4182]

Bro it's 6:30 am where I live.... Perfect for a pre work video

[@CICellDirectorCairmann]

the white consuls and the lords of silence is one of the coolest clashes of loyalist vs traitor in any of the books and i will die on that hill.

[@BEARDEDAXEMODELS]

Consecrators are definitely a Dark Angel successor chapter as they appear as such in the book "Unforgiven" .. their grand master working along side Asrael

[@grandadmiral8173]

The second founding is always fun to create chapter's with questionable heritages such as the space sharks, silver skulls, doom eagles etc while also creating your own fun homebrews. For example I have 2 homebrews from lost world eaters and Luna wolves companies who just labeled themselves as blood angel and ultramarine successors

[@chilihobbes6244]

Outstanding and fascinating video from the apex 40k loremaster.

[@dashiellgillingham4579]

I wouldve thought that the Soul Drinkers were one of the weird ones. I thought it was discovered during their trial that their geneseed wasn’t Dorne’s, but they had always been present at the feasts of blades for it’s entire history, so it was at some point assumed they must be a Dornean successor.

[@MidwestMountainMan]

22:30 easiest paint scheme of any chapter

[@MartyFreeze]

Thanks for another great lore dump, Ian!

[@peterga3658]

one of my fav videos

[@flaviomonteiro1414]

The Consacrators are basically similar to the Blood Ravens portraid by the memes. They have a love for relics and some books said that they were created with that objective in mind, collect relics that maybe related to The Fallen.

[@jeffjstock]

Great video! Love diving into chapter lore. This is patreon calibre content.

[@nomsi4263]

Please do more. The third and so on.

[@engine4403]

that tundra pattern the raptors use reminds me of the hollywood russian camo thats used in the Red Dawn movie

[@philipzahn491]

Ian, our favorite narrator of future history.

[@Vroomerz]

Lots of representation of the 2nd, 11th, and 20th legion in the /*checks notes*, *adjusts glasses*/ Ultramarine successor chapters.

[@andrewvalentine6977]

I'm relatively new to Warhammer 40k lore. I 1st found out about WH 40k back I when played Dawn of War PC game and mostly forgot about them until I started playing Tacticus. I was hoping to find out more about the Blood Ravens that were the in the story of DoW. I suspect they are probably an Ultramarine chapter but not certain.

[@DaftDart]

Great lore video Arbitor lan

[@morbihan9857]

I like how literally the Blood Drinkers take their name. I wonder which came first, their blood drinking habits or the name of the chapter ?

[@earnestwanderer2471]

Best way to learn the lore.

[@Krulltårta]

I loooove this,pleaase make more longer vids!

[@humanafterallTF2]

Could you ever do Aeldari videos? Or other factions. I wish space elf lore would be popular or as well maintained and written as the imperiums.

[@muratferguson4534]

GREATEST Video for all newcomers

[@betobrakmo9157]

I could be wrong but I think the Soul Drinkers always thought themselves to be descendants of the Imperial fists but during their trial in the final soul drinker book Phalanx they were proved not to be.

[@timhough]

Yeah the book confirmed they definitely aren't Descendant from Dorn. Was surprised Ian didn't allude to them likely being loyalists from a traitor legion like he did with the Silver Skulls. Thousand Sons seems to line up the most given the nature of their demise.

[@michaelinnes2754]

@@timhough I think "Master of Mankind" hints that they may be from the Lost Legions.

[@HaseOster]

After looking at the space marine armour for an hour I can only say: god, how much better does the old armour look compared to the mark 10!

[@TheNumber86]

Maybe I'm just too tired right now and just didn't see it, but did you forget Praetors of Orpheus9

[@visig0th152]

There's one interesting possible Second Founding chapter that's absolutely not confirmed, but is one of my favorite theories. As the Great Crusade began, the 19th legion was commanded by a Terran born astartes named Arkhas Fal, who bore the title the Shade Lord. After the discovery of the 19th's Primarch Corvus Corax, and the legion being renamed the Raven Guard, most of the Terran-born Raven Guard were essentially exiled from the legion and sent out in Nomad-Predation fleets far beyond the borders of the Imperium in to the dark depths of the void, because Corax saw the Terrans as brutal slave drivers not dissimilar to the ones he had overthrown on his home world of Deliverance. After the Dropsite Massacre all information and records of the Nomad-Predation fleets were lost to history, including the fate of Arkhas Fal. Fast forward thousands of years, one of the most feared and mysterious space marine chapters in the Imperium are a nomadic fleet-based chapter who prowl the outer void searching for enemies of the Imperium. Their origins are unknown but obviously ancient, as they almost exclusively use relic vehicles, weaponry, and power armor marks used during the Great Crusade, and they speak an ancient dialect of High Gothic not heard anywhere since the Great Crusade as well. They strike with lightning speed like the Raven Guard, they fade into the shadows and disappear like the Raven Guard, and they have pale skin and pitch black eyes like the Raven Guard. These are the Carcharodons Astra, the Space Sharks, led by their chapter master Tyberos the Red Wake, who bears the title The Shade Lord.

[@katamattyon]

Red Templars are similar to Red Hunters both in terms of livery and presumed strong links with the inquisition. Perhaps the RH are also IF successors like the RT are.

[@amsfountain8792]

The foundings sound very similar to the "Aufstellungswelle " of the Werhmacht that created several waves of divisions for the army during ww2

[@rryannn1]

I collect and paint Primaris Novamarines. May need to expand to a 2nd 2nd founding chapter for fun.

[@deadsail95]

Great video... but listening with phones, I came hear you tapping your mouse none stop and it's a bit maddening 😂😂

[@dannyketch7683]

I loved this one. Could you do a similar one for the Cursed Founding?

[@LocSec]

“You didn’t even bother to paint your minis for the game!” *me looking down at my chapter of Fist Exemplars*

[@domingorubies656]

Always knew only about the Big OGs Ultramarines , Dark Angels etc. finding out about these newer ones like Novamarines , Raptors etc is cool but nothing like the OGs