The Real Problem with Alien Covenant (🤦)

I'm all about being current. So here are my thoughts on a movie that came out three years ago.
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[@Sp33ddialz]

Ridley Scott didn't want to make a sequel to prometheus, it's actually really well reported on. What he *really* didn't want was the Aliens Concept Sequel that was being shopped around by Neill Blomkamp. He purposefully helmed a movie he didn't want to make because his pride wouldn't allow someone like Blomkamp to potentially tell a better story.

[@perotekku]

Because Scott has always been an average director elevated with great scripts (Alien, Gladiator, Blade Runner) When he has his own people writing movies, like Robin Hood or Prometheus, we get muddled movies. So Scott being petty, and shutting down Blomkamp's film (which already had Sigourney Weaver attached to), isn't surprising to me.

[@mastpg]

Meh, it could have been good or it could have been Alien: The Last Jedi.

[@frankthecat1660]

Blomkamp's movie would've been just as awful.

[@Phalanx167]

Even larger than just ruining Prometheus, I think Covenant also ruins Alien and the Xenomorph in general. I think one thing that made the Xenomorphs so evocative and dreadful was that they were a manifestation of the universe's ultimate in difference. They are the living embodiment of space's inherent hostility to terrestrial life. The horror behind the Xenomorph was the implication that the blind forces of the universe produced this thing that was beyond any rational nightmare, that killed people in a manner so unreasonably grotesque as the be sadistically inefficient, and what the implied about humanity's lack of significance in the grand scope of things.

[@worsethanhitlerpt.2539]

The Alien seems like the most evil and dangerous creature imaginable any explaination of its origin could never measure up to the monster itself

[@PeppersnGlowworms]

I guess Covenant is not set in the Alien universe, but is instead a sequel to Idiocracy. That means those "astronauts" really were the smartest people available for such a mission...

[@FosterZygote]

'Prometheus' was full of idiot characters as well. We start with a couple of archaeologists pitching their idea to travel to another planet, and when they're asked what evidence they have to support their hypothesis, they say they don't have any and counter with a "but my FEELS!" defense. Then the audience is treated like idiots because we're clearly meant to sympathize with this position - with the idea that Shaw's emotional motivations are obviously superior to empirical evidence. In 'Alien', we could understand how overwhelmed the crew of the Nostromo felt because they were intentionally written as "truck drivers in space". They weren't supposed to be prepared for any of the crazy shit they encountered. But the Prometheus was on an exploratory mission funded by one of the richest humans who ever lived. You'd expect the scientific crew to be among the best in their fields. But we get a geologist who acts like a misanthropic petty criminal, and who, despite being the one who launches the drones that go about mapping the structure they're in, manages to get lost. We also get a biologist who, upon finding actual examples of long-dead alien life, announces how creeped out he is and that he wants to go home. Then later, when he finds an actual living alien life form, he dies because he tries to PET the damned thing. Based on all the Eric von Däniken 'Chariots of the Gods' baggage in the plot, as well as the idiotic caricatures of the scientists and the "your evidence is no match for my emotionally based revelation" slant of the narrative, I got the sense that the writing came from the perspective of someone not only ignorant of science, but actually hostile to science because it doesn't support their pet ideas.

[@mmm-ww8jp]

I really enjoyed it

[@Iron-Bridge]

@Foster. Well said. 👏

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[@FosterZygote]

I remember an Adam Savage quote about walking out of a theater trying to convince himself that he'd liked a movie, and as soon as I heard that I thought of 'Prometheus'.

[@OneAndOnlyYesMan]

My interpretation of David’s decision to kill the engineers comes down to the opening of the film. “You seek your creator, I am looking at mine.” David seems to have a complex about creation, both his own at the hands of humans and in turn the humans at the hands of the engineers. Thus, the engineers in a far removed sense are also his creators. The fact he fully exterminates them seems done out of disgust, like David couldn’t stand that he was no longer superior to humans (in his eyes) by virtue of knowing his origins.

[@CrniWuk]

I think David says somewhere, if I remember correctly, that he can understand human emotions but he will never have any. He might simply hate humans, not because he is in many ways superior but because they made him, despite their inferiority. A sort of inferiority complex maybe. Despite the fact that he is a "superior" being, as he doesn't really age, the same way humans do and he has greater strength and intellect he still can't "feel" and thus is in many ways flawed as he also doesn't have the potential for growth. So what he does is trying to destroy everything infront of him and trying to build something new on the ashes of it. But since he is not a real creator in that sense what he creates is violent, murderous and corrupts. That's my take on it.

[@ashleighfeller1127]

I remember watching the last 45 or 30 minutes of this on TV one, and only watching it bc of your Prometheus video. When I saw that Ellie died I was like what the heck? I also didn't like the more horror tone it had and thought a more scifi tone like Prometheus would have been better.

[@davescripted3796]

I totally agree!

[@silhouettegears2191]

changing from "Prometheus 2" to "covenant" was a mistake ,knowing that "Ridley Scott's" decision influenced by the community fandom was aggravating . personally i liked Prometheus i didn't even know that it belong to the alien series at the time surely was more successful than alien covenant no doubt about that .

Beside the idiot plot, I guess what annoyed me about Covenant on a higher level is that it shifted focus once again. Prometheus moved the focus away from the aliens and over to the Engineers. Like mentioned, the end of Prometheus left a lot of mysteries surrounding the Engineers (some of which were actually explained in deleted scenes) and left open to be explored in a sequel. Instead, the sequel kills off the Engineers because reasons and instead David becomes the main protagonist. The aliens' role are somehow reduced to being more or less wild beasts of David's creation and limited control. That somehow makes them less frightening to me. And Davids motivations are all a bit obscure and makes little sense.

[@nont18411]

2:15 Ellie has no mandible 2:25 Ellie has a mandible Continuity error in the very same movie

[@davescripted3796]

Yeah, I don't get it. Were they drawings or photographs? Either way... ugh. Fingers crossed for part three... if they ever make it.

[@nont18411]

@@davescripted3796 They did because they could. They never think if they should.

[@thisismyname3928]

[@filmbuff2777]

I generally don't think a bad sequel ruins a previous film, but Covenant certainly makes Prometheus worse. The latter film was filmed with a messy screenplay, but it had interesting ideas that could have been expanded upon for some really good potential, if done properly. Scott threw all that away & didn't give a damn, but still filled it with his self indulgent smugness that was all over Prometheus. Scott arrogantly believed criticism against Prometheus was due to people disappointed it didn't have aliens in it, so he made an Alien film instead. Well, not only is that false, but hypothetically, if that was the reason it disappointed fans, Scott & Fox should still be blamed because of all the marketing (the trailers with that eerie siren sound from the original Alien), not to mention the same Alien letter title forming, cues from Goldsmith's score etc. The backburster scene in Covenant was overly shown in marketing. It was very disturbing to see in the trailer, but they kept showing it so much that the effect was lost when the film was released. Scott should receive some of the blame for not demanding to keep things like that out of the marketing. Alien Covenant is one of the worst films of the last decade. Scott should be kicked away from the franchise, & these films should be erased from canon.

[@CrniWuk]

As far as Ridley Scott goes this is nothing new really. Each time Ridley has full controll over the script it ends up being terrible, mediocre at best. Ridley is an exceptional visual director. Almost all his movies show that. Great cinematogreaphy, awesome visual story telling. But the plot and narrative usually really sucks. The guy just can't write a story. And when he also has some sort of agenda - like with both Prometheus and Covenant - it becomes downright bad. Scott mentioned several times that his motivation was the dangers of AI and that this is what he wanted to really tell, a story about the android. But it kinda gets in the way of the overall plot.

[@kingmj87]

I know it’s hard for a lot of people to accept, but Scott hated the fans after Prometheus and really did make this whole movie as nothing more than a “fuck you”

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

... I mean, is that such a difficult notion to accept? To have gone from "Prometheus" to "Alien Covenant" he'd either have to be just the biggest idiot in cinema, have to be going senile, or (as you said) just did it as a big middle-finger to the fans and critics.

[@victorianall4369]

I’m convinced Ridley made it an idiot plot to get back at the audience. Like people were so stingey about Prometheus that Ridley was like alright give them something else… like we could have had a totally different movie from covenant

[@HaloLvl43Legit]

Yeah, be spiteful against the audience that praised Alien, a 2 hour movie that didn't have 10% of that be action, AND DIDN'T chastise how the crew WOULD NEVER ALLOW AN INFECTED PASSENGER ON THE SHIP (EVEN IF THEY DID THAT WOULD BE QUARANTINED AND SURVEILLANCED 24/7). Even though Prometheus sucked (and I'm the biggest Alien fan), doesn't give him the right to destroy the franchise. Even though I know you're joking, I'm legitimately bothered how he destroyed my favorite Horror/Sci-Fi!

[@ThePlayfulDreamer]

I know this post is a year old, but I believe something similar was behind Lucas' decision to sell Star Wars to Disney.

[@Briaaanz]

I never watched Covenant. Prometheus was a franchise killer for me for very similar reasons you hated this movie... the characters made insanely stupid choices

[@davescripted3796]

You're not wrong. The characters are dumb in both movies. But I liked Ellie and David in Prometheus and the mystery of the engineers. Covenant had nothing going for it.

[@Briaaanz]

@@davescripted3796 David in Prometheus, yes. Elle? Nope. I found the whole Christian thing eye rollingly bad. You've got a woman, in the future, who has studied all about ancient cultures, who is looking for our "creators"... yet still believes in a divine creator who had a plan to nail his son to a tree in order to forgive Adam and Eve generations later?

[@CropperTV]

I watched Prometheus in the cinema and Gibraltar and people were laughing when she ran so far in a straight line to get squished. It was so bad it was comical. But we had a great protagonist with good potential for a sequel...

[@dominiquejones3805]

Faris n Covenant infuriated me

[@GalahadTheSeeker]

I hated Prometheus but what Scott did to Ellie is just criminal.

[@monsterb0x]

The opening of prometheus showed the engineers seeding earth with dna, it's reasonable to assume evolution followed from that naturally. The movie was stupid, but that premise wasn't

[@CropperTV]

I've just watched this again. So sad they went away from the exploration and wonder looking for answers from the first one, and went to dr frankenstein. Did noone read the script like wtf. Must admit, for a bad movie its one of the best shot.

[@jimbobeire]

The first one was also Dr. Frankenstein. Weyland as Frankenstein, creating David. The Engineers as _Igor_ fetching more bodies from Earth. Look at the scene where Shaw reanimates the head using electricity. The 1818 book Frankenstein by Mary Shelley has the full title "Frankenstein : The Modern Prometheus "

[@abbeyfeller2749]

Alright, I give in, I'll watch Prometheus

[@davescripted3796]

Prepare to be unimpressed ;-)

[@deanfowles3707]

@@davescripted3796compared with covenant Prometheus was alright

[@feylezofriza]

I have just discovered this channel. It is the best movie/show analysis channel at the moment. It reminds me of the earlier days of RedLetterMedia and RalphTheMovieMaker.

[@group-music]

Nobody ever called Dr Elizabeth Shaw "Ellie".

[@davescripted3796]

What?!

[@group-music]

@@davescripted3796 Who refers to her as Ellie? If you must abbreviate her name, then Liz is the usual shortened for of Elizabeth.

[@guyofminimalimportance7]

I love how most video essays usually point out the subtle ways a work fails to tell a good story, and then in this one the biggest issue expressed is that the script is just stupid; not because he couldn't think of a better answer, but because there is no more profound source of this movie's issues than it just being dumb as shit.

[@dominiquejones3805]

I always wondered was Elizabeth infected from the Alien c-section

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

I think this is the case... Prior to the movie's release, back when they were dropping clips and short-videos as promotion for the movie, one showed us pieces of Shaw's journey with David and she progressively gets sicker and sicker. The only other explanation that would make sense is that she just inevitably weakened and died because of all the shit that happened after she gave herself the c-section. She had to run, jump, fight, and took at least one rifle-butt to the area within hours after surgery. I would not be surprised if the surgery site didn't heal properly and caused complications.

[@ytucharliesierra]

I would say the idiot plot works in comedies but not in films like this.

[@edwardwilliams2438]

I whole heartedly agree. This was a waste of money and talent. How Scott allowed the script to be this lame is beyond me. You would think with the advent of better SPX that the screen writing would also improve. The color pallet was too murky...the players did not act like true scientists..let alone rational laymen travelers of space. In the far future why would weapons not be energy drive..hell even light sabre powered. Shooting bullets are so antiquated and impotent for defence. And the women folk??? really...not a brain cell shared between the group. This movie was a complete fail for me..sadly. Why not allow some film fans make a 50 million dollar movie..I'm sure they could do better...buy the way..what was the profit margin on this film?? Love your introspective critique...razor sharp...Thanks.

[@Arygo87]

I don't know how everybody on the internet likes Covenant but hates Prometheus, i think Prometheus is much better.

[@thisismyname3928]

[@frankthecat1660]

What internet are you on? They both suck, Covenant sucks more tho.

[@crowsbridge]

The end was super frustrating for me.

[@xenoboy7828]

I for myself loved Alien Covenant, yes it could have been better but i really like how they did build this Style around Creation and Playing God. Is the Movie Stupid? Yes, are the Characters dumb? Absolutly, could the Movie be better? Maybe. But i still love Alien Covenant for what it is. The Design, the Xenomorphs, The Mysterious Pathogen, the Idea of Davids Petect Eden that he wanted to create. I really liked that and say what you want about the Movie but Ridley Scott at least tried for us Fans to give us Both Alien and Prometheus and i have Respect for this.

[@sladetuner8661]

Prometheus is actually scary and thrilling and Alien covenant was just a gore festival I believe

[@Quimmoo]

Okay, it might be stupid and lazy, since it's almost 4 in the morning, but if we establish that Scott didn't made the film out of spite, or that this movie is what it is not because Scott was "forced" (by producers and other stakeholders) to make the movie that way, i think that David killed engineers for the same reason he would've kill humans - to play God. Specially with all the biblical tropes and references in the movie (it feels like it was made by Zach Snyder, tbh). Engineers created humans, and humans are worshipping their creators, which is logical since Engineers are far more advanced than humans. But for David the logic doesn't work, he is superior to his makers. So he uses the Alien virus to extinct Engineers and he "breeds" the Xenomorphs - creatures that are way superior to both his makers and his makers makers. In a scene with "baby alien" David makes alien worship him by raising it's "hands" and David himself stands there as a "all-loving" God. Just like humans are God's "magnum opus", Aliens are David's magnum opus. And then he has a chance to further spread his "wonderful creations" by planting the aliens inside the ship with colonists. But that also would imply that David was jealous of humans worshipping some higher being, rather than worhipping David, which at the same time makes and doesn't make any sense.

[@Bazookatone1]

Everytthing you said is true, and this is (as usual0 an outstanding video, but I still enjoy the film, sorry. I have to say when the two people in the shuttle panic when the creature comes out, that actually felt plausible. We all like to think we'd know exactly what to do in a crisis, but in the handfull of real life crises I've been in, I've often found myself frozen with shock or indecision - I felt that bit was actually a very strong part of the film - a big part of the Alien films is that human stupidity or incoimpetence is a big part of what makes the Aliens dangerous (like when the marines cannot fire at them under the heat exchanged in Aliens). I also think its unfair to blame them for not taking a minute to verify Walter's identity when they were running for their lives to escape the monster, again, they're panicking and afraid, not calm and cool. Also, both Prometheus and Covenant had a glut of characters who were just sort of, there. I get havin one or two people who exist to quickly get killed, but both films had about 6 such figures, unlike the first three films, which took even a little time to develop them, these characters have barely any screen time, bary any dialogue and barley any personality.

[@RealRoknRollr3108]

All your points are totally spot on. When I watched this film I thought these people are the most useless bunch of idiots ive seen in a movie in some time. Except for that girl who becomes batman during the climactic fight on top of the space shuttle of course

[@masterzoroark6664]

I've been on this in cinema, came out excidingly disapointed and like you- I do somewhat like Prometheus, but on it's own, set besides the Alien as a series. And because of a cerain "bug" i have with me- I started to come up and write down reimaginings of this set of movies to make things more satisfying. Stuff like removing the fact that David is the creator of xenomorphs- it was far more satisfying that they were implied to be a weaponized organism far far far older than one could imagine, probably even older than Engineers themselves. My thinking and idea was that even Engiees changed an already existing creature for whatever warfare they had in mind. And for me Engineer plot should have been resolved in a way of Old Ones in Warhammer (and alike): "Somewhere in the stars they still are", but now watching instead of acting, which for some might still be far more teriffying. THe story with such plot continiuation would have been more satisfying as a story how a search destroys the searcher- first it kills Ellie, who doesn't have infinite life, and then it destroys David, who falls into obsession for answer and fulfilment for a want to be a creator himself

[@SewTubular]

I could have liked Covenant if it was not part of the ALIEN film series. It should have been a stand-alone film with no characters from any previous ALIEN film. For me the biggest issue was that Covenant was not a Prometheus sequel, and I had no interest in seeing a "David as Dr. Frankenstein" movie. This is the only ALIEN film that refused to buy a blu-ray copy of. I just wanted to forget it was ever made. Now we have ALIEN Romulus coming in August, and I suspect I'm going to hate as much as Covenant.

[@natalja6680]

I liked Prometheus ans I liked Covenant. They both are different, but interesting in their own way.

[@TheVileOne]

Good video

[@keithklassen5320]

Ok, but if your problem with Covenant is that it has an idiot plot, then why do you like Prometheus? It also has an idiot plot. I only ever watched the film when it was in theatres, so I can't quote chapter and verse, but you have to know that so many of the decisions the characters made on the mission, supposedly characters who were chosen out of all humanity to execute a history-making mission, made idiotic mistake after idiotic mistake, full of petty bickering and really basic emotional regulation problems. The crew of Prometheus were markedly worse than your average group of coworkers, far from being an elite group of professionals. The plot of Prometheus would never have happened if the crew were the highly trained and skilled specialists the film made them out to be. It wouldn't even have happened if the crew were normal people. It required many of them to be of below-average intelligence.

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

You're not wrong... Though as someone who prefers "Prometheus" vastly over "Alien Covenant" for much of the same reasons, the only rationale I can offer is that the idiot-plot in "Prometheus" was no where near as insufferable and infuriating as the one in "Alien Covenant". It may just be a matter of personal preference, but to me the crew in "Alien Covenant" made the crew in "Prometheus" look like proper professionals in comparison. The only other bit I can offer is that at least with "Prometheus" we the audience know by the end that the mission was just a secondary concern to the real mission: Get Weyland to humanity's creators so that he can find a way to live longer/forever, and its filled with the usual hubris from the Company that we've all come to know and love... With "Alien Covenant" on the other hand, there is no such excuses. Even if the premise that launches the plot for "Prometheus" forward is dumb, with the Company involved in things it's still believable. Especially when you see how far they'll go in future films to get their way.

[@MrBryanschafer]

I don't appreciate the MAGA comment in the video, but wholeheartedly endorse your take on this movie. When can we get (across the board) super high quality Sci-Fi?

[@_Omega_Weapon]

Aw, did he insinuate Trump worshippers are credulous nincompoops when it comes to....well everything? 😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@kernel-pult]

lmaoooo

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

Hey, if the shoe fits... A lot of people lost friends and loved ones to that pandemic, myself included, and there's a great number of people still struggling with long-covid or other lasting health-complications. And why? All because a bunch of MAG-gots felt their "personal freedom" was more important than the health and well-being of themselves and others.

[@despicabletaylor]

Is it that you don't appreciate it because you actually do actually advocate for mask usage, or are you just triggered?

[@mattlawson714]

I hate to be “that guy” but attractiveness is real and affects everything. Fat, lose 50 pounds. I was fat and I just did that and the way people treat me is completely different. Noomi Rapace is gorgeous. Whether or not we will admit it, we care more about her character because she’s beautiful. There is no one who thinks James Franco is moving to another planet with the lead woman from alien covenant. Is that an asshole thing to say? Absolutely. Is it true? Yeah, it is. The superficial nature of our society is real: gorgeous people deny it because they don’t want to admit that they have it easy. Ugly people deny it because they don’t want to admit they have it hard. As a guy who has been a bodybuilder, and also a big fat piece of shit: if you think looks don’t matter, you are in denial.

[@kernel-pult]

why are you talking about James Franco? He isnt in this film? are you saying the lead is ugly or not im confused. also there were no fat people in the film

[@eduardorodriguez2946]

I actually really like these videos, but my partner said this guy sounds a bit like Ben Wyatt from parks and rec. And i can't un hear it. So I'm going to make it head cannon that this is ben wyatt if he made a KZbin channel.

[@jatochgaatjeniksaan3307]

Its actually the same guy

[@dorians4043]

This is an example of a terribly made movie that I enjoyed fully knowing how bad it was written 😂😂

[@illivanilli_4555]

Great video! thanks. In my opinion, david was obsessed with the idea of ​​the superior species. he wanted to design the perfect alien like weyland designed him. that's why he wanted to wipe out the engineers. before that they were the creators of humans. but the xenomorphs outnumbered them.

[@davescripted3796]

🙏Yeah I like that explanation. Weyland considered himself a god for creating David. So david wanted to be a god too. It's interesting how in religion god creates lesser beings, but in evolution, greater things come from simpler things. They're in conflict. There were some cool existential ideas the film could have explored but wasted the opportunity.

[@vesuvius115]

The thing that pisses me off the most is the fucking fact no one wore a mask on a planet they knew nothing about.

[@AncientOne777]

David did not make the Xenomorphs in a deleted scene in the beginning of the movie he was supposed to find an OG Xeno egg made by the Engineers and then he made his version. What we got ruins so much lore and retcons so much i will never see this piece of garbage as canon!!!!

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

Good thing then that, at least if my understanding is correct, the idea of David being the creator of the xenomorphs has been debunked through other ALIEN-related media. One of the more recent comic series I think goes into this and makes it clear that David did NOT create the species.

[@bobbressi5414]

I liked Prometheus a lot. I hated covenant. It felt rushed and unfocused.

[@Xpzilla]

Love your channel and this video but that face palm emoji with the sound effects was annoying

[@davescripted3796]

lol yeah sometimes I go a little overboard with the editing...

[@bertcarroll1243]

I like the trivia questions I like doing it too yes I hate mask but I’ll take it is a emergency

[@yw1971]

It's existance.

[@alexiachimciuc3199]

Those couldn't be the original engineers. In AC their advance civilization would have been hundred of thousands of years further develop, to the point of snorting the black goo on one nostril and farting rainbows on the other.

[@chrisandrews3979]

Its a lot easier to write an idiot plot, thats why you see it more and more lately, its lazy writing. Prometheus also had an idiot plot so one would conclude that Scott should not be involved in writing films just directing them.

[@Wayner71]

This probably comes down to a fundamental problem with quality control. The writing was abominable (ala Game of Thrones final season) and Scott didn't see the need to override the plot. Or it might be indicative of a decline in artistic expression in the 21st century. Or it could be indicative of both.

[@jamesrad6317]

Alien(s) fans disparage Prometheus because it does not bear enough resemblance to Alien(s). The writers make the sequel more like a Prometheus-Alien crossover, AND some kind of origin story for the Xenomorph. Its a total mess. Lesson: blame negative Alien(s) Prometheus naysayers. And, just for reference, yes, I do agree that the Prometheus concept would have been far better being carried on as its own thing, without the need to cram the next movie full of Alien(s) tropes.

[@Murdock13]

The were not Engineers. They were aliens created by the Engineers, and although they looked very similar...they were not Engineers.

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

... Citation needed. While I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case, given what a shit-show of storytelling this movie was, but we know from the end of "Prometheus" that Shaw and David were making their way to the Engineer home-world... So why would they go to some random world that was just seeded by the Engineers instead? Again, given the movie we're talking about it would not surprise me in the slightest if you're right; but a source for this info would be appreciate. If nothing else it'd be one more criticism to levy against this movie.

[@Murdock13]

@@refurbishedtechpriest9076 Wrong height. Wrong eyes. Too primitive. This was not the Engineers home-world, just another world they seeded and still had contact with. It is obvious. There was mention of this in an interview somewhere, but as you said..."given what a shit-show of storytelling this movie was"...it makes the most sense. Shaw wanted to go to the home-world and ask the "creators" why they wanted to destroy human life. Who knows if they had co-ordinates to that world? Who knows what David did to manipulate things en route? Whatever plans might have been mentioned at the end of "Prometheus", that was also a "shit-show", so we can't take it as a blueprint for the events of this movie. All in all, this attempted extension of "Alien" was a massive failure. I hope "Romulus" brings something better.

[@Murdock13]

Here is a quote from Damon Lindelof, who wasn't involved in "Covenant" but has discussions with a lot of the creative people. "“I think that one of the conversations that we had at the end of Prometheus is, Shaw and David have basically locked in on the coordinates of the planet where the Engineers came from. What does that place look like? Ridley called it ‘Paradise’. What happens when they land on that planet? It doesn’t feel like they’ve gotten there yet in Covenant , Covenant felt like it maybe was a detour prior to them arriving at the place of origin so I don’t want to spoil any place that he might still be wanting to go, but the conversations that he and I had about where the story goes next were largely about the place where the Engineers were from and less the events of Covenant .” Here is the title of a video by another KZbinr discussing this. It makes sense to me. Alien Covenant: Planet Was Not The Engineer Homeworld

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

@@Murdock13 Honestly I chucked the changes in their appearances to just gross incompetence and/or they didn't care enough to get them right. And given the quote you just provided (Thanks for that btw) it sounds like they just didn't care about what "Prometheus" established while writing the script for this dumpster-fire of a movie. But once again I find myself vexed that the shitty writing for this movie forces us to either lean on assumptions, fan-theories, and/or interviews instead of making this shit clear in the movie. Such atrocious writing. Thanks for responding with the quote, and I share you hopes regarding "Romulus". The trailer looked solid, here's to hoping it delivers...

[@Murdock13]

@@refurbishedtechpriest9076 Fingers crossed. 😁

[@mWf57]

Worst movie in the franchise because of the one dimensional character of contrived intention in the least believable way even taking into account the idiot plot.

[@xermasboo5401]

If I remember correctly there were 2 Davids in Prometheus so I can understand because she thought the one she was fixing was the good one, and not the evil one since there was a point where the characters themselves split near the end with the evil one destroying the good one taking his place. Everything from that point just follows, and only reveals the evil one at the end. Everything else about the movie except that part is pretty spot on.

[@fjzsuri9615]

Yes, idiot plot.. i like it.. Cpt Daniels is the only smart character..

[@LukeLovesRose]

I dont have a big problem with this movie

[@LieutnanF]

My answer is B all the way, ridiculous 😆😆

[@MrDflego]

Worst movie of all time on so many levels.

[@alisson_duron]

Didn't Ridley watch the AVP? The Aliens are way older than David created.

[@jasonbungard7484]

Ridley Scott and James Cameron both utterly despise both the AVP movies and deny them in the canon. Fox was apparently just fine with that.

[@alisson_duron]

@@jasonbungard7484 😢

[@_Omega_Weapon]

It's ambiguous. David may have merely "reengineered" them and they are in fact very ancient. No one knows if the Xenomorphs existed as they are first, or if they originally came from the black goo. Either way AvP events can still be considered in universe canon, just depends on how you think about it.

[@kernel-pult]

there's no way david actually created anything, i think it's reasonable to assume he just carried on with whatever bio engineering he found on the ship/planet. If humans are nowhere near bioengineering xenomorphs with their tech and intelligence, then why would the robot humans created be capable of it? He is on par with a genius level human in terms of intelligence, not as smart as the engineers. Apparently there is a deleted scene where david finds a xeno egg on the planet but even without this scene i think it makes total sense that he just found the xeno eggs and made more or optimised them slightly. It also fits in with his inflated ego where he wants to feel superior by becoming an originator of life meanwhile he cannot change that he is an inferior being that cannot innovate

[@whiteumbrella7661]

For God's sake, I've lost count of the number of people who watched this movie and think that the planet that Ellie and David reach is the Engineer homeworld. It isn't, it's another seed planet, just like Earth, only populated with a race derived from the Engineers, but more closely resemble them. That they aren't the Engineers is painfully obvious. If you're going to make a video critiquing a movie, please try to understand it first.

[@thescorchingpteranodon7986]

It was never confirmed to be another planet.

[@thisismyname3928]

[@refurbishedtechpriest9076]

Where in the movie is this established? We know from the end of "Prometheus" that Shaw wanted to go to their home-world and we're pretty much told that's exactly where their course was set to. Why go to a random world they mere seeded with life instead? Don't get me wrong, given what a mess this movie is and how Scott and his writers just turned their brains off for it, I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case. Still, citation is needed my friend.

[@jatochgaatjeniksaan3307]

The fact that they allowed a godlover on the journey is proof enough they just sent a group of expendable idiots😂

[@Narko-manka]

"I dont need God to be a good person" *believes anyone with a differing belief to their own is an idiot and inferior to themself* lol. lmao.

[@kernel-pult]

r/atheism over here

[@jatochgaatjeniksaan3307]

@@kernel-pult well done

[@kernel-pult]

A lot of the critiques here are logical idealism. I think you're forgetting that this is primarily a philisophical and artistic movie. NOT just a horror movie and not just a supporting pillar of the alien trilogy. As an alien fan of course you're going to hate it. Maybe Scott shouldn't have tagged into such a beloved franchise to make these films which are fundamentally not about the same thing but whatever, he did. As someone who liked alien but doesn't d-ride it, i can appreciate these 2 films as their own thing. First of all the issues you have with the idiot plot - have you considered how it ties into the crux about humans being an inferior species with huge problems regarding selfishness and stupidity? The thing about "scientific procedure 🤓" isn't what this film is about and to centre your argument around it is obtuse. This main themes of the film are religion and creation, what counts as life, are some species superior to others, is searching for your creator worthwhile. Those are the questions the film attempted to answer (as I remember it, it was 6 years ago) and it did them well. Also some other annoying things: they are not on the engineers home planet, it is another seed planet like Earth and those are not the engineer species that David kills. Also david did not create the xenomorphs, he found the eggs left by the engineers and spent his time developing it or making more. The point is that David, contrary to his beliefs, is an inferior life form not capable of creating life. Also this film is by definition going to also be about feminism seeing as the point "those who cannot create life are inferior" is a huge signpost to feminsim, not to mention all the alien abortion/birth scenes. The crumbs of a point are alll there so idk why you didnt notice this.