The Real Reason We Hate Cheaters

[@spacecadetglow]

I feel like this video compares non-monogamy and cheating too closely, they are definitely not synonymous. Our society doesn’t hate cheating because it’s non-monogamous but because cheating implies betraying and putting one’s partner at risk. People tend to dislike those that hurt others.

[@jessica_swan]

Exactly

[@smileygirl622]

That's not totally fair to say. Lots of people think that non-monogamy is cheating regardless of betrayal or safety that's why they are so closely inflated and why we have various societal issues regarding if you are allowed to be friends with a person of the opposite gender or if texting or flirting count as cheating or that TikTok trend where the woman asks her husband if he would accept a home baked pie from his coworker if she's female. The "betrayal" could be looking at someone right in front of your partner where there's no questioning, lying or putting the partner at risk. Monogamy is in part a control mechanism to keep your partner from straying and therefore keeping the benefits of having a partner exclusively to yourself. There are plenty of people in this world who want a relationship to mean you suddenly became unattracted to the rest of the population the day you became committed and I mean that, not started acting as though you weren't, actually want you to cease attraction. It is in many ways about ownership and feelings of jealousy which is why non-monogamy and cheating are grouped together. No matter how honest you are or safe you are if you are with someone, they don't own you, and that's the problem. Even in polyamorous spaces they run into ownership issues with having a "primary partner" aka the most important partner. I'm not advocating for any type of lifestyle just it's definitely not just about putting your partner at risk, for many people that's one of the least important reasons, just simply one of the most easily justifiable and therefore the one they use.

[@Danimal4321]

@@smileygirl622 How? If it's agreed how can it be breaking any rules?

[@KatherinaBathory]

Absolutely true. In nom-monogamous relations everyone knows what's going on. There's an agreement. No betrayal or lying... It's 100% different!!

[@M00PSY]

@@KatherinaBathorybeing non monogamous doesn’t stop someone from being a liar or cheater, so I find that hard to believe.

[@vortexofweird]

My ex-partner cheated on me and at first, I thought it was because something was intrinsically wrong with me. I realized later that it was because my ex-partner was a people pleaser. She hated the idea of upsetting anyone so instead of breaking up with me, she cheated. It's been enough time now that I can see from her twisted point of view that cheating on me was her way of "being nice" and saving me the pain of being broken up with. I think maybe it would have been more painful if she had just broken up with me out of the blue. But the cheating definitely left a longer lasting wound on my self-worth and ability to be in a new relationship.

[@WisecrackEDU]

That's a very human way of you to make sense of the situation.

[@hartfordwolfpack8678]

She a POS, king, you deserve better

[@NightRogue77]

That is extremely introspective and reflective, and I applaud you for sharing. One thing I have definitely learned on my own path, is that we are all nothing more than the component parts that led to the complete structure that is us, and few people on this earth ever set out to do real harm to others. Ignorance is the hammer by which we dull the sharp edges of proper intuition, and it is frequently partnered with a significant amount of narcissism. When I look back at old me, and see that poor lost individual constantly making snap determinations about the motivations of other human beings (perfectly logical ones, mind you, but all ultimately based on the subject being an object :/ ), to say I cringe is to put it mildly lol

[@jessica_swan]

This is why cheating in this way is harmful. It did something similar to me and left a scar from other issues also. It can be viewed as a trauma and needs to be evaluated in the context it occurred in.

[@NightRogue77]

@@jessica_swan I no longer participate in the world of monogamy

[@brycekrispy2281]

Micro-cheating is when you watch the next episode of your favorite tv show instead of waiting for them

[@WisecrackEDU]

This is the type of cheating that I am guilty of.

[@wf1675]

@@WisecrackEDU burn him at the stake

[@kalebnbrown]

😂

[@tetchuma]

My bf cheated on me with his drug dealer. I found out one day when I came home unexpectedly, for lunch. I threw him out of my apartment. About three months later, I was moving out, so he came by to get the last of his stuff. Turns out, he had contracted HIV from that guy. I freaked out. I got tested and was negative. Because of that, I was voluntarily celibate for 5 years after that. I was too scared to trust anyone with my heart, mind or body. Now I’m married, 7 years strong. I still freak out when a friend or acquaintance reveals they’re actively cheating on their partner. They soon become former friends. “If they’re lying to someone they share their life with, what would prevent them from lying to you?”

[@Allseeingeyeris]

Great quote to live by. You didn’t deserve the pain he caused. Wishing you a happy and loving peaceful marriage ✨

[@unicornwitchprincess1004]

I’m so sorry you went through this and I’m glad you’re happy now! I 100% agree that cheating shouldn’t be normalized and should be one of the few remaining ways we morally hold fellow humans accountable. The trust of society crumbles if we start normalizing potentially dangerous things like cheating.

[@JL_Lux]

You should see a therapist because your not over that trauma

[@borkbork4124]

So true. Lying, and telling peoples secrets to you means they do it to everyone. If somone talks behind others’ back to you, what makes you think they dont do it about you with others oof same goes for cheating yall

[@tetchuma]

@@JL_Lux Best believe, I’ve spent thousands on therapy, psychiatrists and meds. The trauma was definitely carried over into my marriage. Trust took a long time, but luckily I found someone who thought I was worthy of their patience. Our relationship is almost perfect, but I have residual issues with intimacy. Probably always will, but at least it’s gotten better.

[@Ceruleanturkeyz]

Before I even get into the video I want to be annoying and mention that it's the lying and breaking of trust that's the problem. Open relationships are totally a common enough thing that sleeping with other people isn't really going to turn into a media storm but cheating 😒, that is what most people see as a betrayal. You can cheat in an open relationship. Cheating is about the lying and betrayal.

[@WisecrackEDU]

For sure! And we get into that in the video. Though we still think its notable that cheating as this special place in the hierarchy of immoral behavior, and that we get especially upset when public figures we like cheat. Even more so than when they do financial crimes or say something racist.

[@mariogalindez7427]

@@WisecrackEDU I'm not sure whether this is the case. Perhaps it is more entertaining for the tabloids to talk about, but I am much more horrified by racism and financial crimes. Or, when a supervisor abuses their power over a subordinate. I question the premise of this video: does the fact that we are more entertained by celebrity affairs mean that we disapprove of them disproportionately more than other wrongs? I say probably not.

[@robinkholmes7127]

So true, it's the secrecy and often impulsiveness. Risking giving your partner an STD isn't just upsetting it's scary.

[@chariotwheel]

Will and Jada smith are non-monogamous and it was still news when jada slept w that August guy.

[@edumazieri]

I think so too, but there's a bigger hole here. That's also mentioned in the video, but tl;dw, due to the established norms of what a relationship is supposed to be like, which also includes elements that have nothing to do with sex or romance (for example, economic dependency), it can be very complicated for partners to communicate with each other about this.

[@arvinbuenaagua5161]

We hold celebrities in such high regard but politicians known to be cheating on their wives get elected to the highest offices.

[@uc22_swo1p]

People are probably not very shocked about that fact since most politicians are viewed as manipulative people who lie, exploit and give false promises anyway. And since there usually aren’t any good choices they just pick the best they got. Then it turns out that those politicians cheated on their wives and they’d think: “Typical politician.” Or something similar but not exactly like that.

[@lupo3694]

I'd argue that no one really ever thought of the giant peach as a "good guy". He was elected not despite, but because he is an asshole.

[@elihan9]

Politics is about power. People know this.

[@hippykiller2775]

Celebrities are the pr of politicians, or more accurately the pr of the system as a whole. They are here take our attention AWAY from the politicians and the world around us.

[@elihan9]

@@hippykiller2775 amen to that.

[@gray7433]

Before I get to the end of this video, and forget what I thought at the outset; cheating is hurting someone. The ability to leave a relationship seems to have never been easier. So, if you don't want to be with someone anymore, leave them. Don't cheat on them, get caught, beg for forgiveness, maybe get it, cheat again, draw it out, and then leave. Just leave. And don't get in a relationship with someone who only wants a relationship with you.

[@marius4iasi]

Leaving is also hurting someone.

[@gray7433]

@@marius4iasi oddly enough, should be less hurtful than being cheated on.

[@zashgekido5616]

I do not disagree in the slightest, quite honestly I'm just being pedantic here, but this absolutely sounds like a moral argument XD

[@marius4iasi]

@@gray7433 ideally. In reality it's still rejection, still resentment, still betrayal of the feelings and words said before, and the guilt trip is pretty much the same level. The more time one puts in a relationship, the more hurt one gets if rejected, regardles if it was by dumping, by cheating or by getting the cold shoulder treatment, the alone together feeling. The pressure is higher the more expectations there are. I think most cheating happens out of misery but also attachment, be it emotional, financial, or just purely practical.

[@a_e_hilton]

Michael promised dead eyes during the next BetterHelp ad and I gotta say the man delivered

[@ponyote]

Micro cheating is cheating on someone with Ant Man, duh.

[@WisecrackEDU]

I won't spoil it but pretty sure The Boys has a good example of how "micro cheating" can go very, very wrong.

[@77Jabbawockeez]

No it's a gamble cheating invented by EA

[@Raziel312]

Continuing to have cartoon-crushes on Gadget Hackwrench and Tinkerbell after getting married.

[@curly-d23]

Micro cheating is cheating on someone with Barry B. Benson*, duh.

[@77Jabbawockeez]

@@WisecrackEDU 69 likes, nice

[@tylerwhorff7143]

For Ned and Adam Levine and John Mulaney it was because they used "wife guy" as a pillar of their public personality. For Ned, his whole character in the try guys that separated him from the other white guys in the group is that he loved his wife. He literally made money with his relationship by making a cookbook and podcast with his wife. To then have the audacity to cheat, with someone from the company no less. Like come on!! He had everything going for him and still was a shitbag! That's why it was such an uproar. Cheating isn't like the worst sin you can do but it's pretty shitty and a show of character

[@maximilianomadrigal6661]

John mulany wasn't a wife guy, Adam Levine was barely a wife guy.

[@edumazieri]

It's kinda funny how most of what is mentioned in the video is exemplified so clearly right here in the comments section. I'm gonna try one here, and don't be offended, please I have no idea who you are and the assumption I'm going to make is purely hypothetical. Is it possible, that part of the reason why you have such a strong negative opinion of these people, is that in some way you held up the "wife guy" aspect of their persona. Perhaps it's even a topic you've struggled with in your life, whether by cheating, wondered about cheating, wondered about being cheated on or actually cheated on. And when that image of them now seems to contradict the aspects which you held it up to, well, that must feel pretty shitty. So the reason why the reaction is a bit more intense that it normally would be, assuming these are people you have no relation to and you have zero stake in the matter, is not just the parasocial relationship, but the "idol" that didn't properly represent what you projected on it. Does it make sense to view it this way?

[@lauramessy]

@@maximilianomadrigal6661 John was absolutely wife guy

[@tylerwhorff7143]

@@edumazieri nah I didn't idolize him he was easily the lamest of the try guys and barely tolerable. I'm not a huge try guys fan either, it's just like a shit move to literally make money off your relationship by using it to make your online persona and then to cheat on your wife. You're making assumptions that don't really reflect on me at all but could affect others. I don't care that much about cheating per se, it's just to do it in such a public way really reflects on how much of an idiot he was. Jeopardizing an entire company and losing his whole career over cheating on his wife has a lot more implications than the average person cheating on someone

[@Justsegarra]

It's not that big a deal. He was horny, get over it.

[@lolahernandez6871]

Sorry but once the trust is broken, it's gone. I wouldn't be able to fully trust my partner anymore.

[@garysturgess6757]

Sure - I agree 100%. And we'd likely be pretty judgey if we found our siblings cheated on their spouse too. But I can't honestly muster up that sort of outrage if some You Tube fake celebrity cheats on their spouse - it's really none of my business, there's 8 billion people on the world and I can't be the moral guardian of all of them. :)

[@CloakedSpie]

I can't help but feel sick (literally) at the idea of cheating. I've been cheated on. It's an absolute betrayal because I don't open myself up very easily. To me, cheating is the same as breaking an emotional contract we both agreed to. It would be like destroying an emotional investment.

[@garysturgess6757]

I don't think anyone would argue otherwise - nobody wants to be cheated on - but I'm not sure that's the same as the outrage (often pseudo-)celebrities get. I'm not suggesting that the only ones affected are the couple involved - I doubt I could stay friends with someone that cheated on their spouse, for example - but honestly what (e.g.) Brad Pitt and Jennifer Anniston get up to is really none of my business, IMO.

[@chuopskivlog]

trust me, breaking up and then having sex week later with other guy is 'socially acceptable' but hurts the same

[@tristanneal9552]

@@chuopskivlog Definitely not exactly the same imo. Still hurts quite badly I'm sure, but getting away with cheating typically requires a level of manipulation, gaslighting, and deception that can absolutely destroy the betrayed partner's ability to trust and securely attach. It layers additional feelings of betrayal on top of the ones you already have when you're left for someone else.

[@chuopskivlog]

@@tristanneal9552 i think you have one model in mind only. I have experienced both cheating (with regret) and swapping partner (without regret) and the second one hurted more personally

[@Mothermochi]

I agree. I think once you have an established and “emotional contract” which I think I understand what you mean by that, it’s an active choice. I have experience with a semi long term friend with benefits relationship and a 14 year marriage (not at the same time lol) In the first situation, everyone knew the deal. There was no tears, no awkwardness- we both knew eventually it would stop abruptly. That relationship ended when I met my spouse. My spouse cheated emotionally a decade into our marriage, during my second pregnancy and then physically while we had another challenge two years later and it was world crushing. Idk but affairs don’t just happen. It’s an active choice imo. You are looking for something, instead of building with your partner. if one party is so desperate to leave or try something new… the respectful thing is to inform your partner BEFORE making them lose their minds. That is the part that destroys people. I don’t know that it’s really the physical act as much as the emotional and psychological manipulation that has to happen when you deceive someone that trusts you. You can never trust someone once you learn how good at they are at lying to you.

[@randomcdude4430]

Micro cheating= just the tip.

[@angusmatheson8906]

Lmfao

[@Educatedunhousedperson]

Now we have to call into question why sexuality is always viewed from a male perspective.

[@mallagallabumbum8209]

@@Educatedunhousedperson It's just the tip for the receiving partner too.

[@FlorianCalmer]

@@Educatedunhousedperson Tip of the tongue?

[@chrisgenovese8188]

i absolutely hate cheaters, and it has nothing to do with some moral or puritanical reasons. its about trust and respect. its not just about love, there are other consequences with sex and cheating that go beyond feelings.

[@yekkub9425]

Those ARE moral reasons though. But there is nothing wrong with that.

[@chrisgenovese8188]

@@yekkub9425 thats fair. i guess i meant to imply i dont think sex outside of a marriage is amoral.

[@namkia205]

It can give you STDs

[@Huloha]

These famous men not only cheated on their wives but also betrayed their fans. Ned and Adam specifically had a brand of loyalty and respect toward women and their wives. When they cheated, we learned their values were nonmonagamous and that they had abused their power to be with women outside of their marriage.

[@WisecrackEDU]

I think the interesting question there is then . . . what do folks like this *really* owe their fans? Are we putting too much stock in their performative identities?

[@_salty_cheeks_]

Betraying on your partner is wrong. Full stop. But we don't know these people. How much of a duty do they have to us to be honest?

[@ceeceepg]

@@WisecrackEDU I think it was seen as worse with Ned because he made money by selling products branding himself as a dedicated husband. So he for a long time benefited off his relationship monetarily while also betraying his wife. He doesn't really owe us anything but I also would not have watched his advice on how to maintain a healthy marriage if I knew he was lying to his wife in such a way.

[@J_Lauds]

@@WisecrackEDU I don't believe that these two men have a "duty" to be perfection. But at least for Ned, he knows that his audience is younger females. As someone that grew up with The Try Guys, all of them represented men that I looked up to in an age where Internet celebrities you just don't know. The fact that Ned put so much stock into him being the one in the best marriage and building on that belief is what left viewers heartbroken over the news of his infidelity. Does he owe us anything? No. Do we have the right to criticize him for an act that is disgusting? Yes.

[@hippykiller2775]

@@WisecrackEDU Yes. But the problem is in what I call persona socialization. We as a society think reality is based upon social development and engagement we have on these social platforms and in what we see and watch. I mean most movies are moral dramas presented in front of us(in my personal opinion to keep us delusional and disassociated). And if humanity's moral understanding is constantly being presented before us, why would we not also extend that throught process to those who are playing the characters? In short humans are no longer a species that struggles with morality, we a a species that sit backs and have our morals spoon feed to us by corporations trying to pacify the public into simple docile viewers. But that also means that when these spokes people fuck up there I a shit ton of anger from those watching them. Cuz in extention the moral of the celebrities we watch are considered a basis of our own values.... If our moral behavior as citizens is to be observers, than we judge those we watch especially hard. In even more short terms... Humanity has been fucking brainwashed and everything around us is stupid as fuck.

[@daralic2255]

The fact that non-monogamy is becoming more accepted makes the choice of cheating worse. It means someone has the option to honestly pursue sex and romance with other people but willingly choose the dishonest route. What makes it worse? Cheaters want to be in monogamous relationships despite the fact they wonder which takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance.

[@johnhenry4844]

They obviously don’t want there wife to be a gross hooe, and still have a side piece, it’s different for powerful men, why shouldn’t it be

[@zachariahsmith9130]

This is a silly take. People dont always get married out of love and people dont always stay for it either. People have their reasons for why they do what they do. Affairs arent always emotional or physical. Betrayal comes in many other forms too. Not just affairs

[@Ford_prefect_42]

I don't understand why it's so hard for some people to be monogamous when they continually promise they will be. If you don't want to be, then communicate that! But if you say you're going to, then do that. Seems simple. Then again, I'm too lazy for one relationship, I can't imagine having multiple, ethically or not.

[@zashgekido5616]

It's the ease I'd Imagine; monogamy is still somewhat the default socially, it's hard enough to get your foot in the door without putting up a deal breaker on the table. A short term advantage for potential long term misery if you will

[@vatop1304]

@@zashgekido5616 non monogamy is the default, but we were preprogrammed by the powerful to be monogamous.

[@namkia205]

​@@vatop1304 Nah humans a serial monogamists we are not carnivores or reptiles that are non monogamists we are just serial monogamists not lifelong monogamists you watch too much Tate

[@JaceDeanLove]

@@namkia205our ancestors were NOT monogamous. They’d sleep with multiple women to help the human race survive. It’s evolution. Before you say I’m a Tate fan, I just want to say I think he is a despicable human being who should be in prison

[@donnab0518]

Another favourite channel of mine - The Take - made a similar point about setting unrealistic expectations of monogamy and maybe we're a bit hard on these cheaters, but I think embracing non-monogamy is a different conversation than forgiving after trust is broken. If the distinction isn't clear, it can make partners who have been cheated on feel pressured to forgive their partners because of the rising argument that monogamy is outdated or unnatural. I don't disagree that monogamy is rooted in traditions that may not reflect everyone's reality, but I think the issue with Ned Fulmer, Adam Levine, and John mulaney is that their personas are often centred around the women they cheat on. So they benefit from this persona of the 'wife guy' or the 'dad guy' while turning around and humiliating the same women that gave them this life that brings in the likes and sponsorships. Conflating the two I think drowns out the hurt and betrayal to their wives, or partners who have been cheated on. Even if monogamy is becoming outdated, it's irrelevant to the betrayal and hurt that someone feels after a commitment has been broken.

[@trippy6183]

I am single and seeking a true monogamous relationship, and it seems more and more unlikely each day...

[@fluffymonster396]

The thing with Ned is that he cheated with an employee, someone he could make work-life miserable for and someone who likely thought highly of him who he could easily persuade and influence. Relationships should be built on trust and communication and that's why cheating is such a bad thing, but too many times the women's punishment for being involved in cheating is worse than the man who cheated.

[@pewpew305]

Idk I feel it's not that deep. Cheating is a betrayal, plain and simple. Betrayal from the person you trust the most.

[@FlorianCalmer]

It's also cowardice. Many choose to cheat instead of having the tough conversations about issues in their relationship. And selfishness, as if your partner's feelings don't matter. That's quite a lot to forgive.

[@zachariahsmith9130]

​@FlorianCalmer this is crap. Sex is a physical need. Thats plain and simple. People are just possessive and need to own something to provide value and self worth which is on the person. Sex is sex

[@basicsimp8798]

As someone who was cheated on by his boyfriend of two years, it felt weird. Like, wasn't upset with him at all, but at myself. I blamed myself for it. My thoughts was, maybe if I was a better partner he wouldn't have cheated on me, or something. I kinda saw it coming too. Like even before entering the relationship. I never accused him of cheating, I fully trusted him but in the back of my mind, I knew he can find someone better than me, then he did. Doesn't help that I have depression and low self esteem. I dunno, I know it's not my fault that it's the cheaters fault but part of me still blames myself for everything.

[@viridianacortes9642]

Look, even if you had flaws that were effect the relationship, that doesn’t make it your fault that he cheated. If the relationship was suffering, he needed to be an adult and talk to you about it. If he felt the relationship was not salvageable, he should have ended it before starting anything with anyone else. It’s not your fault that he lacked integrity. It’s not your fault that he didn’t want to talk to you about how you guys could improve the relationship. It’s not your fault.

[@WisecrackEDU]

That's such a a tough situation to be in. Having been there myself, you always just have to remember that it's almost never you about you, and always about something going on with them. It doesn't make it easier as such, but at least can help mellow out the self blame.

[@basicsimp8798]

@@WisecrackEDU That sucks man, seriously if someone would cheat on someone as terribly attractive and well spoken like you, then the rest of us, we're doom. XD

[@LonkinPork]

micro cheating is when you write the wrong answers on your hand before an exam

[@Blindingstarshine]

Actually depends on the Font Size

[@FlorianCalmer]

I used microfilms.

[@twiceshy9773]

It's not about the cheating, it's about the lying- I would much prefer if my hubby went to a brothel rather than have an affair

[@xarkxem]

I'll just add that it's not just infedelity, any form of cheating carries similar types of public stigma. Nothing will ruin your reputation in sports or professional games like being found as a cheater. Ala. Barry Bonds, Marc Maguire, Lance Armstrong... With tarnished reputations till this day. Some sports cheaters can redeem themselves somewhat but it always hangs over their head.

[@WisecrackEDU]

Very good call on the sports cheating.

[@spb8039]

Didn't Pete Rose get banned for life and never made it into the hall of fame because of his gambling and cheating?

[@wombat4583]

Transparency is important in society too. Academia (research) and politics (politicians and related institutes) this is also a common outrage thing. Scandal after scandal about manipulations, (unfair) loopholes, lies are always called out. It's just a lot harder to enforce punishment on those people.

[@LeninMcDonalds]

Daym... This video made me realize just how much Michael has really grown on me since he took over. It's always like catching up with a good friend every time I come to wisecrack.

[@WisecrackEDU]

Dude - thank you so much, means a lot.

[@SunDryll]

He's definitely been able to do something good with an already good channel. always happy to see a new video on my feed

[@Amozon28]

i dont like how this video was framed as a "moral issue" on people having sexual desires outside the confines of monogamy. because that has literally NOTHING to do with the root of cheating. the reason that cheating is hated because it is a fundamental breaking of trust and outright lying. example. if i agreed to a roommate coming to live with me on the sole condition that they dont eat my snacks, and they agreed to these terms and then went and ate my snacks and then LIED about eating me snacks and i found out about it???? well they literally broke the foundation of out agreement to this entire roommate situation. if your in a relationship with someone with the understanding that you both will only date/be with each other, and then DONT do that and then LIE. its a huge break of trust???? and the same is true of poly relationships. if a groupd of people have agreed to haveing relationships with each others and one person in the group involves other people that the other 2 havent agreed to thats also cheating. cheating is about breaking promises and lieing about it. NOT about the morality of sexual exclusivity.

[@WisecrackEDU]

I think one idea we're trying to explore is that the logic around morality is often way messier than we'd like it to be, especially when human emotion and sexual desire are involved.

[@wesleydunn169]

Try Guys try cheating on their significant others

[@HanmaHeiro]

This one hurts man. Augustine was right in the statement you provided only in that there can be forgiveness for the cheater for their desire. But not so for their chosen action. One can be urged to do harm, the choice to do it is theirs

[@cvayta]

These men are very powerful, they have more rights than others, more influence, and feel they can always have whatever they want. When they cheat, it just shows that they take advantage of their power. And they are terrible to their partners too.

[@LoraK31]

I think the extent of the cheating is also an interesting thing to look at. Did the person kiss someone who wasn't their partner once, feel bad about it, and immediately confess? Or were they going behind their partner's back for months or years with a whole secret relationship? The levels of betrayal are very different. I think what got everyone hating Ned was that it was clearly the second option in his case. Also, if his wife Ariel wasn't such a public face on the channel, there probably wouldn't have been as strong of a reaction, but she was constantly in videos (even couples-themed ones), so you can put a face to the person who was betrayed.

[@ad1108am]

I don’t know the full answer, but I think there is something both sad and pathetic about a good looking father of three in his 50s, having successful career, 6 digits salary and good health - texting a mistress hiding in the bathroom from his wife.

[@WisecrackEDU]

It's definitely lame.

[@JL_Lux]

It’s almost like having all those things may not fulfill individuals at all even though we are told it will

[@minirichiPap]

I was in a non-monogamist relationship for 6 years and it ended with her cheating on me last year, because yeah it was no monogamous but it wasn't polyamorous and the way she cheated on me was by telling lies about how deep she was taking things with this third person and well, this episode of wisecrack is hitting it pretty close to home

[@normandy2501]

So the rule was you could hook up with other people, but you couldn't get emotionally attached? It almost seems inevitable.

[@QuidamByMoonlight]

That’s like saying you can skydive but you just can’t enjoy it with the people you’re doing it with. How people think most people can be non-monogamous but not polygamous is beyond me unless it’s just ONS. You have that kind of experience with someone long enough you’re a) not going to want to stop if it’s good, and b) develop feelings for the person providing the good feelings. Sorry you failed logic 101. That’s on you.

[@minirichiPap]

@@normandy2501 I'm a bisexual heterorromantic, I couldn't get attached to a guy even if i tried very hard but I could hook up with one and that's what I used to do, I also hooked up with a great number of girls without getting attached seems like you are putting your world view as the only one possible

[@minirichiPap]

@@QuidamByMoonlight I'm sorry that you're so close minded that for you sex=love if you can't get sex without getting emotional that's on you pal, and shame on you for trying to lecture me on "logic" if you can't even discern between your personal view and the "only Truth" you believe exists.

[@htsunmiku]

Honestly I get what everyone is saying here. It's inevitable that some people would fall for someone else. I kinda assumed that people who want open relationships are ppl who have a higher sex drive mixed with the interest of sleeping with other people. People who like sex but don't really care for getting attached to new people (and probably can extend their view of sex outside of"something sacred"). So I think for an open relationships to work you have to be a specific type of person. I don't think that type of person is very common tho.

[@jon2679]

Micro cheating is a term used by controlling individuals who want to justify their possessive behavior, not realizing that people can have close relationships in a platonic way, with other human beings.

[@JL_Lux]

Hmmm this is interesting

[@seanhewlett6570]

THIS 👏

[@emmakane6848]

Totally agree. Emotional cheating seems like a more accurate and neutral/objective term, while micro cheating implies that it is better or not as bad as ‘regular’ cheating.

[@mittag983]

Imo every relationship has individual boundaries

[@jcam5]

I read somewhere that Ayn Rand had an extended affair but when her lover was having an affair with another woman, Rand lost it even though from an objectivist POV, the guy was just pursuing his own happiness.

[@JL_Lux]

She’s a hypocrite- who would of guess

[@Chill-mm4pn]

People should communicate their needs and if they need to leave the relationship and be single so be it.

[@arminxvs3372]

It's easy: if you cheat on your SO, the person you supposedly love the most on this planet, and then continue to see them, maybe live with them, lying to their face on a daily basis... I mean what are we even talking about? What kind of a person are you if you willingly and so easily lie to the person you love the most? That is another level of f*-up. If you feel the need to cheat, if this person is no enough, then just leave. Or if you are weak and fail to control your urges, then say it beforehand that you potentially like some polygamie here and there. Play with open cards. But most people like the excitement but are not willing to leave the comfort at home so they want it both ways. Sorry, not sorry - no excuse for cheaters!

[@MartyD]

never idolize celebs

[@WisecrackEDU]

This covers a multitude of problems.

[@bryna7]

That goes for any person in the public sphere, like politics. There are a lot cults of personality out there.

[@TylerLarson]

My ex cheated on me. She never forgave me for immediately forgiving her and trying to make things right by her. She divorced me soon after, as my failure to condemn her continuing affair was, in her opinion, entirely inexcusable.

[@NnotKnott]

Because it breaks hearts bro 🥺

[@RabidGerbilInAFish]

I think the idea that nonmonogamous relationships being more open and honest might be mixing up causal factors. Nonmonogamy requires partners to be relatively open and honest to even happen in the modern world, so it's not necessarily the case that the relationship style is what's making the difference.

[@failedrevolutionary9497]

A few months ago, the Yik Yak for the area around my college campus suddenly exploded with a bunch of people accusing the girlfriend of a baseball player of cheating on her boyfriend with a football player. Without any hesitation, users who very clearly had no personal relationships with any of the people involved started piling on - there were some messages of support for the baseball player, but the overwhelming majority of messages were slutshaming and body-shaming the girl. At this point, the ONLY THING people were going off of was a Yik Yak rumor. To this day I don't know if the cheating actually happened. The interpersonal harm done by cheating is real and I don't want to minimize it. It can be IMMENSELY damaging, and not just to the partner who got cheated on. I also feel that that's not really the point of this video or of any discussion about how we COLLECTIVELY respond to a cheating scandal. So often the focus of a backlash isn't on supporting the person who got cheated on but on vilifying the person who did the cheating to the point that it starts to feel that we're trying to weed out some kind of social impurity. If we do, in fact, want to decrease instances of cheating on a societal level, then harassment of cheaters is not a solution. I do not believe that mob justice can stop cheating from being so common.

[@edumazieri]

Amazing comment, super interesting story. Ya, we do see that happen. I'm thinking it has something to do with their view of themselves and of the moral values they feel like they should hold up. As you exemplified, it isn't so much about supporting someone who may have suffered from a possibly hurtful situation, it's about publicly denouncing the perpetrator, as a way of taking a public moral stance against these acts. Like you said, it doesn't even matter if the thing actually happened, all that matters is that the idea of it is uttered. By denouncing it, others might view them more favoribly and in line with established morals. By denouncing, they themselves feel they are upholding these morals. Even when, and specially when, ironically, they are not. It's the scarlet letter.

[@FreyaEinde]

I also kinda think cheaters are just kinda emotionally dishonest and I dunno maybe a society where you're allowed to be open about wanting other things or just being able to end things easier would reduce cheating more than public shame

[@IrocZIV]

Definitely a trust issue in the general case. I've been in monogamous, polyamorous, and a relationship that went from monogamous to open. In all of them the most important aspect is communication. (That means actually being willing to share your true feelings/desires, without fear of anger. Many relationships seem to live on lies. Small ones, but lies non-the-less.) Hearing that your partner wants more than you can give might be saddening to some, but hiding the truth isn't going to help anyone. Life is too short to live in unhappiness. If you love someone, you should want them to be happy, even if you are not the one to give them that happiness. If them being with someone else causes you unhappiness, that should be a factor too, and could be a reason that the relationship should move on. I am friends still with almost all my ex's. A breakup shouldn't be treated like a failure, and doesn't have to end with any long term animosity, sadness certainly, but don't harbor hate. We are all just human after all, and no one really knows what they are doing. We should help each other find happiness when we can.

[@FlorianCalmer]

Well said.

[@phantomasuras]

I feel like you are one of the few people who understands we humans are flawed creatures and having to uphold ourselves to abstract absolute values it's impossible. Life it's just too complex.

[@troywalkertheprogressivean8433]

14:41 right, you can't control your feelings, but you can control your actions. Honesty with oneself and others goes a long way. But it's difficult to be honest when one has no choices.

[@yah_boy_fat_gabe8094]

This is my piece of advice: Don't cheat because it hurts the other. If you want to be with others then talk it out, communicate, and reach an understanding. Yes we all make mistakes, but be honest to your partner, don't betray them, and if you REALLY wanna fuck somebody else but your partner doesn't agree on it, leave them. There's no need to hurt eachother, relationships are about being honest.

[@Educatedunhousedperson]

That's a pretty selfish take. Cheating is a nuanced topic just like everything else that has to do with human behavior and human sexuality. I would definitely tell someone, for example a woman with two children with special needs that had to leave the workforce and her husband is now refusing to have sex with her and is also refusing an open marriage, to cheat. That scenario really opened my eyes to how some people will just manipulate others to see how far they can push them. Go all the way over the edge!

[@mika161ultrainstinct]

@@Educatedunhousedperson Nothing that person said was selfish.

[@mastergator9641]

@ Sol 🧿🪬 all you did was prepose an example that fits your narrative out of the blue and act like you found a puzzle piece that fits “perfectly” in your mind. I mean it’s absurd, c’mon

[@Ootek_Imora]

The way I've always seen cheating is betrayal of trust and understanding set up at the beginning of the relationship or any boundaries or standards set after the beginning. But I'm autistic and separated from my fiance for a Lil over a year now what do I know. (Not due to cheating, she said mental health cause of her family)

[@shawnwales696]

Double not good. The cheating is a betrayal of his spouse, cheating with a subordinant is an abuse of power. Like I said, double not good.

[@Shinkajo]

That's complete nonsense. You have absolutely no idea what went on between them.

[@FractionOfDave]

The problem with forgiving a cheater is giving them an out to do it again. Being walked on by a cheater is another level. At one point or another, forgiveness becomes something between hurt and complacency. It’s better to look at the first instance as a sign, most of the time, when it boils down to actual interaction. People don’t think about the philosophical outcome of things most of the time. People are fueled by their bodily functions and feelings; the philosophy of why-it-happened exists only in retrospect.

[@maykit]

As a member of an (ex) Catholic-prevalent society, I appreciate the limited public discourse on extramarital affairs. Our presidents have had undisclosed marital statuses. While it's true that some individuals still resort to violence, citing infidelity as a justification, I'm relieved not to live in a society bound by puritan values. What perplexes me, though, is the American contradiction: a prevalence of explicit content, various forms of prostitution, and yet a strong inclination towards moralizing on the subject of cheating.

[@avalancherelapse]

I feel I understood logically most of this video, except for the arguments closer to the end about 'having a productive dialogue with cheaters' and 'forgiving infidelity'. What Esther Perel suggests in 'The State of Affairs' (at least how Wisecrack quotes it) basically implies that cheating is a given, and that just makes me go 'well what is even the point of love then'? And why would you try and find it in yourself to forgive someone who cheated on you? It feels like this idea is geared more towards people in their 50's who can't be bothered to find another spouse at their age (and yes i happen to be younger than 50), but to anyone else - I just don't get how you can set this line and explicitly say 'I don't want you to ever cross this line' and then let it go when they do cross it. Or to even imagine that the line is bound to be crossed at some point anyway. Honestly sounds like a whole ton of 'cheaters trying to make it sound like its not that bad and not their fault and lets talk about this'. Standards wouldn't be important if following them was easy for everyone. I don't want to live in a world where cheating is a thing that just happens and to pretend that there's nothing we can do about it.

[@jakarta5080]

I feel like the example given from about 11:30 on is kind of a perfect example of someone being cheated. This is an expectation that someone must put out in order to retain the normalcy of their relationship. There is no explanation for the dead bedroom and there is nothing said that she tried to resolve the issue at the core of it.

[@winterx2348]

from the perspective of someone who is a non-partnering aromantic: our culture's unhealthy obsession with romance is more to blame for the unhealthy and often disproportionate backlash on public cheaters. romance and marriage are set up as the biggest and most important universal goals of anyone's lives, to the point that how successful they are at it (regardless of circumstances) is heavily intertwined in an individual's idea of self worth, and the idea of "happily ever after" is worshiped with so much fervor from all walks of life that it puts god themself to shame, so i think it strikes a special nerve with most people when someone demonstrates how so much of that ideology doesn't hold up to reality. how flimsy our actual understanding of human needs and connection is, how many lies we've unquestioningly bought in the pursuit of a single unifying answer to what the human experience is supposed to be. when someone cheats on their partner, they are pulling back the curtain, and nobody likes what they see, so the fear, guilt, and insecurity comes out as anger at the one person it's easiest to point fingers at. the cheater has committed the crime of being a dirty liar, but also another crime that goes unsaid, lest we reveal a truth that's harder to swallow.

[@shiddter]

Literally no. Like not even for moral ambiguity bullshit. You make a promise with another human being to be faithful and you just don't fucking break that. No amount of financial dependence or whatever cope you want to try to squish it into makes it okay. It's an unforgivable level of disrespect to another human being who is supposed to be your partner. There's not much "moral ambiguity" to it. If your partner consents to it? Fine. But anything else is a problem you either fix, fucking deal with it, or divorce.

[@JohnSmith-zw8vp]

Well we were taught as kids that cheaters NEVER win and winners NEVER cheat.

[@indigosnow_]

I honestly don't get cheating, just break up with someone before the act.

[@chloconuttree]

11:04

[@SadeWatkins]

Literally.

[@JBear87]

I've thought about trying polyamory... then I remember that I'm the kind of person who gets stressed out having three cats and only 2 hands to pet them.

[@seanmaddex4104]

It seems like the public backlash is tied to breaking a social contract (commitment) and people wanting to support people who shares their viewpoint and morals. I view it as the same reason I refuse to buy anything from chick-fil-a. If I knew a friend was cheating on their partner I would lose respect for them and question why I am friends with them.

[@marius4iasi]

It's more about one's own insecurities and fears of being cheated on. It's a bit hypocritical, if you ask me, everybody condemns cheating, yet it happens so often.

[@JL_Lux]

I think it’s more personal. I don’t support companies who are against the lgbt because it’s a civil right movements. I don’t care if a celebrity cheats because i don’t know them or their spouses. It’s not my business

[@seanmaddex4104]

@@JL_Lux I dont really care much about what a celebrity does or doesn't do but if I felt like one who was in my favorite show or that I watched regularly was a terrible person I would stop watching/financially supporting them. I think the alignment of values can be both on a micro and macro scale

[@evelienheerens2879]

In dutch we call it 'vreemd gaan', meaning, going strange, or going somewhere unusual. Signalling you are leaving the beaten path. I have been in an open relationship for almost 20 years. We're not even usually active with other people but we mostly don't believe in having ownership of another person's sexual autonomy. So if someone comes along, we just talk about it to make sure there's no issue. Clear rules are important and hiding it or doing it behind the other person's back would still be considered cheating by us. Like in all things, consent is everything.

[@kylaevelyn1800]

I like that you brought up the nuance that some situations are not easily labelled as "right" or "wrong". That being said, my issue with cheating has always been that of "consent". If your partner does not consent to being in an open or polyamorous relationship, then a decision or compromise needs to be made about whether or not the relationship makes sense to continue. That being said, I appreciate that you brought up that there are difficult situations in which it feels like leaving simply isn't an option. If we had better social supports, tackled the rigid social stigmas against divorce, separation and polyamory, then these things wouldn't be as contentious. On the basis of consent, it's also a matter of "fairness". Obviously both men and women cheat, but for so long one was (and in some circles still is) treated far worse than the other, and then you get into the nonsense bio-essentialism alpha male misogyny where it's somehow acceptable and understandable that a man would cheat, but unthinkable if a woman were to. Like no, bro, if you get to bang other people, then your wife also gets that option. Once again, in terms of cheating and consent, one person is getting to explore that option while the expectation is the other person "remain loyal" which isn't right.

[@mastergator9641]

This comment section is so full of projection, it’s adorable

[@aldrichuyliong8143]

I think the reaction goes beyond that he just cheated. By doing so with an employee no less he recklessly exposed everyone at the Try Guys company to a potential lawsuit. I think that's really why he got fired.

[@PROPAROXITONO]

in Portuguese, the word we use for cheating (in this context) is "traição" (betray, like "betray the country"). that's why I always thought of "cheating" as a strange word for this. it's sounds so... unimportant. but betray has a connotation of "breaking the trust" and "doing intentional harm for someone you specifically shouldn't". I'm married, never 'betrayed' my wife and never will. but I think this social rage with cheaters it's a way to people say "look at me raging, that's because I would never do that!". it's looks fake to me, unnatural. I just think people can have sex with other people, just don't promise someone you will not and do anyway. that's why I never had a serious relationship before I started dating my wife. Never before her I knew someone that made me give up of every possible sex I could, theoretic, have. and I'm ugly, I was not swimming on girls... I just think it's a gift from our time the fact we can have one-night stands multiple times with the same person without getting serious and promising fidelity. so why abandon that if we don't want to do our part?

[@maskingtables]

In Spanish we say "deceiving" or "tricking". Emphasizing on the lying and manipulation required for cheating.

[@adinakruijssen3056]

I think this is why we say cheating too - not because of the "trying to do the best at a game as we can get away with", but because you are breaking the agreed upon rules and engagement others entered into with you, you are breaking your social contract and being deceptive about it. If you are engaged in an activity with someone who would not have agreed to it if they knew how you were actually going to engage, then you have broken the trust and "cheated"

[@cmilla111]

I think you nailed it when you said we are all aware that there is always feels like there is a chance of cheating. Couples jokes about having a "safe list " or whatever, a list of people you are allowed to cheat with. They jokes because a small part of them understands. If Hugh Jackman or Chris Hemsworth falls in love with your wife well good luck. Maybe your wife is faithful and they seem like decent men. But what if they weren't? If some 6'+ super rich 11/10 sexy and 12/10 charming person wisks your partner away, even your own mother won't have any comforting words. And that's why the fear is pretty universal. Most of us have enough doubt or know at least one awesome person that makes us think MAYBE our partner could be doing better. Just imagine walking in the park with your fiancee and you bump into Brad Pitt or Kate Beckinsale. They introduce themselves, say hi and inform you they used to date for a few months when they were 21. There is no flirting, no awkward pauses or lingering touch, just your own self doubt and paranoia. And I don't think this feeling is immature or indicative of low self esteem. It's the all too true understanding idea that some people click more than others. It's knowing in your bones that Dave is richer than you, Mike is in better shape, Will is smarter and Dan is a better father. You don't have to accept cheating. I don't think we evolved to be monogamous but I also don't think we are nearly evolved enough for open, ambiguous or harem like set ups. Speaking for the otherwise sensitive men, you would pretty much have to be a pimp or a literal cuckold to accept this and not have it shake you to the core. And I have to assume most women feel something similar. TL;DR: Dan Savage once said something along the lines that "If a person was married for 60 years and then slipped up once, while the other was essentially asexual and filled with outward and inward rage due to an illness, AND a high school sweetheart showed up, AND they looked like a model AND they were both virgins and they both joked that they would get married before 60 if they were single and they bumped into each other at the old haunt and had the best sex of their lives... It would STILL be a good example of a long and loving relationship filled with devotion. And though our children and our God might not forgive, maybe we can still prove that we loved someone or something more than ourselves. The fundamental problem with monogamy is we can't predict the future. There is no guarantee that after marriage that you won't immediately meet someone better in every way. And in our sentimental society there is no way to tell the truth without being a bad guy. Like an episode of Seinfeld, there seems to be no mature way to tell a woman her hands are too big or a man's height is too short. There is no diplomatic way of saying your husband is short and bald or your wife fat and grey. There is no of telling your partner "If I don't get laid in 2 months I get to cheat with whoever."

[@ModernConversations]

“Old world morality” was based on old world emotions, which Arguably, we still largely experience today.

[@Josh123benja]

The whole reason that it's wrong is because it comes with lying to your partner. You're equating non-monogamy and cheating , but an open relationship is not the same thing as betraying the trust of your partner. If you want to have sex with other people that's fine, but if you don't agree about it with your partner then I feel that that is a morally wrong thing to do

[@Lecrie]

A monogamous relationship is a deal between two people. The deal means there is to be no third party in the romantic nor sexual behaviours of the two. This deal is based on trust. If the deal isn't followed by a party, the trust is broken. Love is based on trust and thus when someone cheats, the love ends. There's really nothing more to it. It's very simple. You make a deal with a person and if the other party keeps their end of the bargain, you will trust them. If not, you now know what kind of a person you're dealing with and can never truly trust them again. You know what they've done and in the back of your mind you will expect them to break any trust you try to put towards them again. The best feeling in the world is when you've got someone trustworthy. Someone who's got your back and who will do their best to keep their end of the bargain. To be the best person in the world, you will constantly follow your deals to the letter and fully cut off anyone who doesn't do the same.

[@UnreasonableOpinions]

There's a lot of space between the extreme ends of soap opera cheating and dangerous codependency. Spending time apart is necessary, having friends outside the relationship is good, spending time apart with friends is healthy, but when trivial moments of friendship become more important than significant moments of relationship, it's clearly a mismatch of investment. The classic example is skipping elaborate anniversary plans for casual social events, but there's much more serious ones, like failing to offer important emotional support in favour of others - I would be much more upset a partner abandoning me in a time where I urgently needed help or support to go out with a friend than if they had a messy night and ended up having sex and then telling me. The latter is a big mistake but it is just a mistake - the former is a choice and thus an active betrayal.

[@jameslooker4791]

Cheating represents one of the few circumstances where we socially acknowledge that we have obligations to other people that shouldn't be enforced by criminal law. It's very difficult to get someone to articulate a behavior or act that they feel is immoral but they don't think *should* be criminalized.

[@Hotshot2k4]

For the record, I don't get especially upset when public figures cheat, but my parasocial relationships are also extremely loose and I place little faith in the creators I watch to begin with. My reaction to a KZbinr I watch being outed for cheating is like "Well, that sucks for their partner". I also wasn't raised with religion and don't hold marriage on a huge pedestal, so that might be part of it. If I was cheated on, like, the whole nine yards, that would probably be the end of the relationship. Similarly, if I was to cheat, it would be because I clearly didn't value my relationship as much as my freedom to be with some other woman for some reason, and so I would be willing to accept the consequences of my actions and have the relationship end. What pisses me off is when people get caught and act all sorry and apologetic about it - like Dumas, YOU were the one who put yourself on this course, not me. Don't apologize - either own it, or don't do it. You don't get to eat your cake and have it too. I'm just glad that I'm happy being single now, and no longer have to deal with these kinds of issues. I feel like, in a sense, I have enough substance inside me that I don't need a partner to complete me or emotionally fulfill me. To put it another way, I'm really full of myself!

[@ceulgai2817]

Microcheating is obviously something you have to do 1,000,000 times in order for it to count as cheating.

[@threecatsinatrenchcoat8567]

People need to start admitting to what they want before commiting to anything. But that means letting go of fear of punishment. Unless you are hurting anyone, there is no need to limit yourself. At the same time, you must not take away the responsibility of someone else's life. There is a line where one person begins and the other ends. All that people need to trust is that being upfront at all times about what you want and need saves you from making promises that you can't keep. Being civil should not compromise honesty.

[@RPPIK]

“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you"

[@JayFolipurba]

I was afraid this would just be another advert for polyamory. But like you said, the core of it is trust and broken trust. It depends on how vulnerable you are and how much you trust your partner, whether or not cheating can or should be forgiven. I'd still argue to just not do it, if you know it will hurt the other. There's too much emphasis on sex anyway, there's more to a relationship, there's more to life

[@quintessenceSL]

It strikes me as quite a bit more than broken trust. I can have that with anyone from a realtor to a craigslist ad. It's more degree of entanglement and consequences arising from that, coupled with how powerful the sex drive is. There is a fair bit of investment of blood and time that goes into any relationship, nevermind maybe some social conditioning as to the forms those relationships take. Much like if I have a friend that treats me poorly; they aren't my friend anymore.

[@MattSkudlarek]

Micro cheating: One millionth as much cheating as compared to regular cheating. Scientifically speaking.

[@troywalkertheprogressivean8433]

11:50 fight for an economic and political system that frees her, instead of traps her. If housing, healthcare, and food were supported by our taxes, instead of war and maintaining the status quo on behalf of the rich, she would have actual choices.

[@adinakruijssen3056]

"we channel the fury we would have if we were cheated on, and we aim it at these strangers" yeah, just like we do with most moral failings, like cruelty, fraud, or murder (I would say we also mainly channel the fury we would feel if this happened to one of our loved ones, like a sibling, parent, child, or friend)

[@bassman9261995]

This feels like it was written to prepare the wisecrack audience for unsettling news

[@WisecrackEDU]

Yes, it's true, Michael has cheated on his mostly vegan diet by enjoying spaghetti and meatballs over the weekend. (true story)

[@bassman9261995]

@@WisecrackEDU 😱

[@jeddafakee91]

Some of us are struggling to find that love. I think there is a little envy there when someone has it and kinda betrays it

[@psylockes]

There are actual dept psychological effects of cheating which haven’t been discussed at all. I feel like the consequences of cheating weren’t really considered here. It’s all well and good to want more nuance around the conversation but it feels like the cheater is being absolved, maybe more than they should be.

[@somerandomgal3915]

Well, I am a few days late here, but I would like to add an aromantic perspective to the overall thing: Breaking a previously made agreement with your partner is breaking your partner’s trust in you. Additionally, to whom you are romantically attracted to is not automatically to whom you are sexually attracted towards. Assuming that both sexual attraction and romantic attraction are one and the same is a very reductionist and overly simplified view on sex and romance and what cheating means in all of that together. Furthermore: defining a romantic relationship as the only possible deep bond besides friendship and familiar bonds ignores all the other forms a relationship between two people can take (I am talking about QPRs, soft romance, weaverships, friends with benefits, etc. there). Finally: some people just don’t need to have a romantic partner and pressuring them into finding “the one” and forcing them to stay in that state for the rest of their life will negatively impact both the person and their partner, since the basis of the relationship they are both in is based on social conventions and social pressure instead of mutual trust and affection (whatever form these might’ve otherwise taken). And now outside of all of that: i’d be pretty interested to see how wisecrack would handle aromanticism as a video topic here

[@kaylabingus]

Haven't watched the video yet but I found out the other day my ex that I was with for two years emotionally cheated on me for half of that time. So I think I can come up with a few reasons lmao

[@WisecrackEDU]

Very, very sorry to hear that. I've been there and it's tough.

[@kaylabingus]

@@WisecrackEDU Thank you 😊

[@keerthirajnagaraj1548]

@@WisecrackEDU this is a really good video. I wish you had discussed emotional cheating. This has become common these days, when people are not strong enough to break up or face the problems head on, they end up emotionally getting involved with someone other than their partner and this can crush the partner's spirit. Unfortunately in the past, I was involved in such a situation, I feel guilty now but I didn't know what I was doing was emotional cheating at that time. I finally ended that kind of bond with my friend when I realized how much it was hurting her bf.

[@007MrYang]

Microcheating: cheating on your husband with a man that has a micropenis Jokes aside, I'm not really a fan of making excuses for cheating because at the end of the day, it's the secrecy and the lying that hurts people. I'm all for open relationships and the like, but actual cheating is just something I can't condone no matter how many philosophers and sexologists may want to disagree with me.

[@ltlbuddha]

Politicians are not typically trusted, financial people are expected to focus on making money, stealing it or conning people is an extension of that, not a violation. Our relationships are the places where we are typically most vulnerable. Other people being unfaithful renders fears of infidelity from our partners. "Puritanical" is over-egging things a bit

[@lostinthestorywithjeremymi9385]

An issue those is what some do to cheaters after the secret is revealed. There's countless stories of cheaters being beaten, berated in a misogynistic rant, shot, decapitated, strangled, burnt alive, impaled, etc. And people think that is ok, even good because someone cheated or was involved with a cheater. (Like torturous, horror movie crap is done to them and people actually are glad to hear when it happens. And that's both terrible and cruel.)

[@britneybij3997]

Doesn't matter how ya frame it, cheating is still bad. If the relationship is unsatisfying in any which way, leave it or work with your partner to fix it. But cheating is just a temporary relief that can bring long-term negative consequences, even after the relationship is over. The effects of cheating can follow the cheater, or the victim, for the rest of their lives and any relationships they may have in the future. Cheating brings many more issues, it can not bring benefits, just temporary relief that will always be followed by overwhelming guilt and misery. It's not about being perfect, it's about being a decent person.

[@alexoconnor68]

This really got me thinking. Maybe the reason cheating is universally condemned so strongly is because it has such a prominent place in all our lives. I don't know how the statistics would shakeout but if the percentages in this video are accurate than it's likely everyone has some experience with cheating. Parents who cheated and broke their family. A partner who broke their heart. Or a shameful secret that they can never find support for. Maybe we all feel so strongly about cheating because it touches all of our lives in a way that feels unique and terrible each time.

[@G3HP]

You seriously lead into this asking why people are increasingly fine with non-monogamous relationships but not cheating? The answer is so easy it's almost not worth saying out loud - consent. Cheating in a monogamous relationship isn't just the having sex with someone else, it is the betrayal to your partner that comes with it - it is making a promise them burning it to the ground. Since you never make that promise in a non-exclusive relationship, it's a lot easier to accept, both within the relationship and in the outer optics of it as well.

[@CottonCandySharks]

It's just scummy to betray your partner. If you agreed to non-manogamy that's fine, cause then it's not a betrayal. But betraying the person you've chosen to be your main support in life? Never good.

[@lacrartezorok4975]

There are no absolutes, but in most cases there's a lack of communication. If since you're dating you know your partner has a more traditional view and values and you don't believe in absolute monogamy, then you shouldn't keep that relationship. Also, your partner may think watching porn is immoral, but view it or following celebrities and models on social media as cheating is absurd!

[@itsrro]

if you cheat on someone that you know they truly loves you then you’re a bad person to me, as simple as that 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@ajandrews2134]

I think everybody in the comments missed the point in the video. They weren't trying to argue if cheating is bad or not they were arguing should we rank cheating as one of the worst things a person can do and I would argue its not. Coming from a person who's partner did cheat on him i would would say it sucks but you can come back from it if you are willing to do the work and i don't see my partner as a criminal. I see her as human who made a mistake, which is most celebrities that we hold in high regard, because they are human just like you and me and none of us is above making mistakes. I hope all this made sense and help some people out there

[@orion0915]

Micro cheating is when you know in your heart that you’d leave your partner for a fictional character if possible

[@electron2601]

I don't recommend better help as I heard it's a scam.

[@whatwouldnetwork9441]

Cheaters deserve Cancer. Simple as.

[@spooky-soap]

the “thanks for hanging out” at the end feels like parasocial baiting… have y’all made a video on online parasocial relationships yet?

[@nevereverr]

Which Wisecrack writer cheated on their partner and is now trying to justify it with this video

[@tahaninelson1152]

It should also be added that Ned from the Try Guys built his entire Try Guy/public persona around how much he loved his wife and how perfect he felt his marriage was. Nearly everything he said or did cultivated that "Best Husband" persona. For many of the people that followed him, he was kind of a pinnacle of marital bliss-- something that people wanted to aspire to in their own relationships. So people probably felt some level of **Personal** betrayal by his actions, which led to a larger outcry than many famous people who cheat on their partners usually get.

[@futuristicgirl14]

I love wisecrack for breaking down the NED INCIDENT OF 2022 like you didn’t need to give us this but you did and I love you for it.

[@tessy4018]

Cheating is emotional abuse. It's downright traumatic to many people. I don't think monogamy is always the best thing for everyone eg some people are poly, and that's fine, but if not, then you are breaking someone's trust.

[@worshipthecomedygodseoeunk4010]

tldr but the one thing i really am stuck on is the fact that the definitions of cheating vary so widely between different people. i thought i did everything right when i broke up with my bf, but my friend still accused me of cheating bc she believes that breaking up and then talking to someone else, not even getting into a relationship, is cheating. i even asked her for advice about whether or not i should stay with him and work things out, and she said no. i honestly always had a feeling that she didnt want me to be with him because theyre from the same culture and shes always talked about how men in her culture are toxic. but she never knew everything about my relationship. so i always felt she projected that onto me. it just felt like a switch up to me, like at first she was trying to support me in my decision, and then all of a sudden, a boundary that i had no idea existed popped up and now she cant trust any decision i ever make. she even gave me ice cream and flowers as if prepared to help me break up with this guy. i admit that i have insecure attachment, which is very complex and has to do with a lot of different things, like my adoption issues and emotionally abusive parents. so i did end up going to talk to other guys, but it was all casual, all we did was play games. but at the end of the day, i didnt see anything wrong, bc i broke up with the guy. i didnt cut contact bc i still had things at his place, and most of all, my cats lived there. turns out a guy i played games with was really into me, and i found myself attracted to him too. but i later found out that he was a narcissist, and would spend the next 4 months manipulating me into a relationship with him. my friend found out about everything turned our friendship inside out. this guy had manipulated me until i could no longer recognize myself. he managed to suck every single positive feeling i had dry. but the trauma bond bit hard. i did things for him thinking that his accusations of me would be diminished if i just did it. i cancelled my extended trip to korea, my own birthplace, which i had planned for over a year. of course, he wasnt satisfied, and even accused me of "lying" that i "told him i was going to cancel all of it, not just the extended part". i literally never did and i even EXPLICITLY told him to know that for financial reasons, i cannot cancel it. he said ok. but narcs dont keep their word, obviously. so i went to korea, told him ill send pictures, he freaked out when i didnt respond right after landing, blocked, unfriended, and ghosted me for the entire week. well obviously, who is going to think that is a living relationship at that point? so, i talked to people. and didnt care how i talked to them. he came back all of a sudden saying im disrespecting his boundaries. disrespecting how? i owe him nothing. he ended up breaking up with me to manipulate me into "chasing him" and holding it over my head that "i made him break up with me", trying to stay in contact while insulting me, refusing to admit any accountability, and telling me he wishes i was never in his life. ok see ya! in the end, my friend never forgave me. i reached out to her several months ago, wishing for the ability to fully explain what happened after the months she left me on read. she victim blamed me for "believing a narcissist" and basically told me she doesnt care about my experiences, my ex wasnt good, the narc guy is obviously terrible, i just have terrible decision making skills. (even tho again, it was her advice i followed) she said i let a man ruin our friendship as if i should just agree that the friendship is even worth saving after ghosting me for 7 months straight. it was just cruel for her to basically reinforce all the things the narcissistic guy said to me. what kind of friend undermines their friends decisions like that? and shes done this other times in the past. like blaming me for losing my stuff when we traveled abroad. and i think its her skepticism about my ability to be wise that reinforced her moral leaning that what i did was unforgiveable. but apparently she doesnt have to give me a chance to tell my side or disagree bc her moral positions are higher than anyone elses. thats why she says she disagrees with victim blaming, except with me. she considers herself very progressive, but i find her views on relationships incredibly conservative. she believes strongly in the bond of monogamous marriage and thinks separation isnt better than a poor quality marriage. she doesnt believe in falling out of love, either love exists or it doesnt. in contrast, my parents stayed together in a toxic marriage that contributed to their abuse towards me. if my dad wanted to leave for another woman, i wouldnt care. better than road raging at my mom and giving me chronic panic attacks. good riddance right? their lack of affection towards each other also contributed to my insecure attachment and fear of sexual relationships. i know i messed up by being with this narcissist, but once you learn about narcissism, you realize why its so hard to leave. if the boundaries were broken, i never had a chance to see them. i just didnt see cheating the way she did. i saw it as lying and deception, she saw it as preplanned emotional involvement and spending not enough time forgetting about an ex until they mean nothing. "he loves me, he loves me not". personally, i think this thinking is very idealistic and doesnt account for the complexity in human society.