The Real Rules of Horror Movies | Renegade Cut

[@charliesterns4353]

The key to surviving a horror movie as dictated by Alien and The Thing: Find a flamethrower, use the flamethrower.

[@lemmythetrash-goblin8291]

If in doubt, apply more flamethrower

[@dumpsockpuppet5619]

...what if i'm facing a flame demon?

[@lemmythetrash-goblin8291]

@@dumpsockpuppet5619 You've never heard of fighting fire with fire? Apply even more flamethrower, until the lesser fire is extinguished

[@BIONICLECLAYPOKEMON]

@@dumpsockpuppet5619 _Find a supersoaker, use the supersoaker._

[@Undademedina]

I mean, Dallas was the one who originally had the flamethrower and we all know what happened there

[@SabrinaRina]

I had a college professor tell us that to be a female fan of horror expressed a "lesbian" leaning sexuality based on the focus on a female lead in a power role. Then he went around the room asking if we were fans of horror movies I said "not really, some movies" (easier than specifying which and why and which I don't like in the height of torture porn and daughter house movies that I don't care for). He blatantly asked me what I had against lesbians. 😐 I think anyone else he'd been fired or least had a fight. I just felt attacked for a piss poor joke. He also liked encouraging males in the class (in side conversations) to go check out a nude beach with a certain reputation for hooking up. All and all, a creep. His influence as an educator is scarier than most films.

[@ThyReturner]

That's odd. Then if it's a Male leading role does that make one gay? Should of flipped it on him.

[@ragingbombast]

@@ThyReturner Well, Predator, the "man's slasher film," has been accused by more than one person of being pretty homoerotic...

[@MatrixTheHedgehog123]

What the fuck? What college?

[@davidhanson4909]

I'm guessing he was tenured? Still, dick move(s).

[@3dgym3DIa]

A L I E N, the slasher where survival rate is correlated to your devotion to your cat.

[@helenl3193]

Not strictly true - at least one member of the crew (Brett - played by Harry Dean Stanton) dies because he stops to follow/try to catch Jones, and then gets ambushed by the alien.

[@mphylo2296]

@@granudisimo He was looking for the cat when he died.

[@3dgym3DIa]

Jones had to be crossing paths with the alien in offscreen corridors while the crew was busy unraveling. Maybe underneath the body horror facade ALIEN is a tragic tale of a cat trying to escape its suffocating owner and finding common ground that leads to friendship with a soulless murderbeast.

[@Vickyeverythingelsewastaken]

I plan to get a fat ol' cat and name her Jonesy to protect me. The utter devotion is self-explanatory with a fat ol' cat.

[@d3nza482]

More like devotion to the rule of law and abstinence of seven deadly sins while being a chaste maiden. In Alien, all who die either break the laws (quarantine, attempted murder) or are shown as greedy and lazy smokers and over-eaters who keep whining about bonuses and grumbling about their jobs. Meanwhile, the chaste maiden keeps nagging everyone about following the laws and procedures and then she kills the "dragon" by offering herself as bait - in front of the airlock. Lust is not the only deadly sin. Greed, gluttony, sloth and wrath work just as fine.

[@leonardorossi998]

To be fair, in Alien Parker (the black guy) also proposed to put Kane in hibernation the moment they realized what happened. Which as far as we know would have perfectly worked, but no one listened to him. Ironically (if i recall correctly), he died because Lambert didn't listen to him when he told her to get out of the way and let him use his flamethrower on the alien. The working class guy's curse was that nobody listened to him :P

[@neilchatterjee7644]

How to survive cosmic horror: you don’t.

[@leonardorossi998]

Well, you can. You simply wouldn't want to

[@Undademedina]

I've found that eating eldritch gods' umbilical cords and then beating the shit out of the moon works for that

[@phastinemoon]

Eh - flip a coin, and pray that you have a full name, but no personality - probably makes you a narrator, but not a character

[@sparkpenguin]

i came to comment this.

[@FoxgirlEriana]

I was wondering if he'd touch on Cosmic Horror, because like, yeah... you don't really "survive" Cosmic horror, and if you manage to live, you're still driven into utter, rampant madness

[@CrowsofAcheron]

In early gothic horror, intelligence and christian values are somewhat conflated. In the original Dracula novel, Van Helsing defeated vampires with the cross but also saved Mina through the use of blood transfusion, a new technology that many thought was sacriligious at the time.

[@mickiemallorie]

This is why diversity in these mediums is so important. You get a freshness of ideas and in this case fears that adds to the tension and ultimately the feelings your left with leaving the theater. I look at Jordan Peele has been bringing to the medium with his own film and his production of Lovecraft country. The scariest things in his works are the tensions between people, especially between the non supernatural horrors and the horror of being black in america or dealing with white people.

[@o0Avalon0o]

Jordan Peele is producing Lovecraft Country? Ok, now I'm interested.

[@fruitygarlic3601]

Jordan Peele's social horror is like H.P. Lovecraft's best, without stopping the story midway to explain why poor folk aren't "real whites like me." Diversity is necessary to keep horror innovative. If you'd like, H.Bomberguy has a really great video about Lovecraft's legacy in the modern day, with a slight focus on an adaptation of Shadow Over Innsmouth that focuses on a gay protagonist.

[@KristofDE]

I would argue that sci-fi horror makes a case for ignorance instead of knowledge. Half of these movies are positing that people got into trouble by being too greedy or too experimental. Event Horizon wouldn't happen if they didn't test out a new kind of engine. Jurassic Park literally has a quote that's roughly "you thought so hard on how to do it that you didn't bother to consider whether you should". Sci-fi horror punishes hubris first and foremost I think, and rewards decency and valuing other things than gaining power or resources.

[@Taeerom]

"you thought so hard on how to do it that you didn't bother to consider whether you should" is a great line to teach students about scientific ethics. Doing science ethically is a core part of doing science and integral to the scientific method. Just experimenting jsut to see if you can is very much anti-science, since the results are often unusable. Science is more than anything a way of communicating knowledge. If you fuck up the ethical guidelines, your communication is compromised and your attempt at science is useless. It can't be tested by someone else, and untestable findings are (almost) useless. It can be used to formulate future hypothesis (much like how for example unscientific folk knowledge has been used as starting points for scientific studies), and then someone smarter than you can figure out a way to test the hypothesis better. But then they, at least, has to stick to doing ethical science.

[@Vickyeverythingelsewastaken]

Cosmic horror too. Ignoring all of Lovecrafts xenophobia, the message is still that there are things we aren't supposed to know. In Colour out of space, Nameless City, and even Call of Cuthulu, the message is "Leave and never look back, this isn't cruel or intentional, just aimless and overpowering beyond what humans can endure".

[@rafaelneumann8365]

The worst part is how the Jurassic Park movie outright undersells the ACTUAL message of the book to almost sound anti-science (and the least said about Lost World the better. In that one scientists can just fuck off. It is the worst misrepresentation of scientists I've ever seem and the worst is that it was unintentional which just makes me question Steven Spielberg altogether). The actual message of the book is that greed and hubris will get in the way of good science. "Spared no expenses" is an outright lie. Corners were cut in every way they could cut and the dinosaurs were bred and confined as cheaply as humanly possible all in the name of actually doing the opposite in order to make it a safer investment and more profitable one. In the book the park is almost an inverse of Murphy's law. Instead of "if anything can go wrong, it will go wrong" it is "everything can go wrong and WILL go wrong" while the same principle applies. (You CAN'T afford anything to go wrong)

[@TyGently]

This is also the case in Alien. Ripley discovers that the real reason the xenomorph was allowed onboard was to bring it back to Earth so its brutality can be harnessed. That said, it's still punishing a sort of ignorance: ignorance of one's own limitations. The protagonist is not someone who rejects knowledge, but someone who uses knowledge responsibly.

[@shoesncheese]

Crimson Peak is Gothic Horroromance without God and one of the things that saves the protagonist is that she had sex. Also, the ghosts are trying to help and humans are the real monsters. I really like Crimson Peak. Interesting to put it side-by-side with Braham Stoker's Dracula.

[@Sirvaria]

Crimson peak is such a good movie, it was one of very few horror movies that didnt bore me to death by way of being too formulaeic

[@VenusAD]

Crimson Peak was sooooo good and I am not a horror fan (mostly because I'm a big chicken).

[@jenniferp1917]

Doesn't the guy in Hocus Pocus save himself by having sex, too?

[@HeckleJeckle87]

Alien (at least the first one) is a Haunted House horror movie. Only instead of being trapped inside of a house and being haunted by a ghost/demon/etc, Ripley is trapped inside of a space station and being followed by an Alien.

[@mrdrumble]

Interestingly, according to Carpenter, the reason the other teens died in Halloween has nothing to do with morality, at least not directly. He said Laurie survived because you're a lot more aware of your surroundings when you're not drinking and screwing. Other slashers, primarily Friday the 13th, misinterpreted the reason and that's what caught on. The movie arguably supports this too, as Laurie smokes weed early in the film but Micheal was not ready to strike then so she got away with it.

[@fynnthefox9078]

Thank you!

[@grandsome1]

First rule to not get killed in slasher movies, and other movies and real life: don't be black or gay.

[@mrheisenberg83]

And if you took that hurdle: don't be a stoner. They live dangerous lives in horror movies. Edit: I would die so fast. :-D

[@21Arrozito]

I think you mean, how to survive the USA

[@aydengibson6953]

That's a good rule.

[@aydengibson6953]

Don't be a black guy with white friends and then follow them when they decide to investigate something that looks creepy and is obviously dangerous even though you know it's a bad idea because if that happens you will get killed first

[@fynnthefox9078]

Shit, I'm one of those!

[@Hudson-sm1ti]

One of the many elements I love about Alien is that Ripley (a woman) and Parker (a African American man) are the two most logical people on the ship. If everyone had listened to them the whole thing could have possibly been avoided.

[@javiermontesperales3833]

Also, that the corporations' greed is ultimately at fault for how things get messed up.

[@RomLoneWolf23]

Behind the Mask: the Rise of Leslie Vernon was a great deconstruction of the Slasher Movie.

[@KeikosLastSmile]

Literally watched it again last night 😊, and noticed clever new details I’d missed - such as that it’s implied that Leslie’s mentor Eugene’s wife is his own original survivor girl

[@theonlymegumegu]

Yes! While I'mn actually not a huge horror/ slasher movie fan, Behind the Mask is one of my favorite horror movies, and movies in general. But then, I love genre subversion/meta movies.

[@greglong7170]

That movie convinced me to keep my sub to Shudder. It was simply amazing. Especially at the end when they had to admit that he was really good at his job. I also love the idea of there being some kind of official underground serial killer business with rules and whatnot and the general idea that it's a legit profession to pursue. Plus I loved the horror cameos. That was a brilliant Easter egg for people who love old school slasher movies. But it's so hard to talk about the movie and not spoil it.

[@robcressey7228]

So so good and true and quotable. A must see for any horror lover.

[@youngfyah]

My grandfather's name is Leslie Vernon and my cousin who's named after him. Hilarious

[@darkservantofheaven]

Some critics haved called Alien a gothic horror movie in space

[@lkeke35]

We also need to take into account that the vast majority of the history of this genre has been written by straight white men, with little input from women creators, PoC, or lgbtq people. So what we’re getting is a glimpse into the minds of what white American men think is important, of what is a priority for them, and/or frightening to them.

[@ngr3gorius]

This is the realest comment and is causing me to question a few things.

[@BansheeKing22]

No one cares about your bs identity politics. Keep that delusion to yourself.

[@sowhatphie]

Classic horror has a couple key exceptions though. Dracula was written by a gay man and Frankenstein was written by a woman.

[@cassinipanini]

I think the supernatural section is very western (not a critique, an observation!). Many supernatural horror movies from Eastern countries like Japan, Korea, and Thailand have little to no influence from Christianity but are still decidedly within the supernatural subgenre. Instead these movies draw on aspects like social relationships (Shutter, Juon), technology (Pulse), or history (The Mimic). Many do use cosmological elements similar to Christianity, like the demons in The Wailing, but these are simply similarities between the two cosmologies than any sort of Christian influence on the movies themselves. None of these movies are resolved through faith in a Christian God, however they are undeniably within the Supernatural category. Stylistically and thematically they share many characteristics with western supernatural horror, hence why it is fairly easy to remake movies like The Ring or the Grudge for western audiences with relatively few thematic changes. The film languages are similar, but the underlying values are significantly different. I find this very fascinating to think about, especially as films from other regions, like the Middle East (Under the Shadow), are gaining more recognition. I would say that surviving a supernatural horror movie from one of these countries depends on your ability to repair or strength your bonds with others, particularly if you have transgressed them in some way. Interestingly, this is more similar to the resolution you cite for zombie movies: humanity, though usually in the smaller context of individual relationships.

[@domotoro3552]

he literally acknowledged this in the video?

[@BadOompaloompa79]

Would love a vid on how media sanitizes US involvement in south america like Tom Clancy's clear and present danger.

[@sparklaiheoma6517]

I watched a video along time ago where two movie buff men discussed slasher movies and how there could be a correlation of the brutal killing of young, naive, helpless, promiscuous, women to the uprising of the feminist movement during the 70’s-80’s, a time where slasher movies hit its peak and when the feminist movement became more mainstream. We see time and time again media creating scenarios where an oppressed class is attacked and belittled when they dare oppose the oppressor.

[@manmadegod100]

Using Christian mythology is an easy shortcut. You don't have to do any of your own world-building.

[@ananya1721]

Oh to be stuck in a sci-fi slasher movie as we speak.

[@apokos8871]

i remember a short text giving solid advice for surviving both literature cosmic horror and/or roleplaying games with cosmic horror: 1) never sleep. caffeine is for winners 2) dont trust anyone with high education 3) the second use of gasoline is for fuel 4) there is no such thing as "too many grenades" 5) dont read. ignorance is bliss 6) go live in the Netherlands or Belgium. nothing bad ever happens there

[@Caligula1488]

I live in the netherlands and yeah I can confirm that nothing bad happens here

[@asdffjsdjasd]

I've been on a horror movie kick recently and realized how much the Christian themes and Puritan values turn me off. My sister was adamant that The Conjuring was the scariest movie but I just couldn't get past the religious themes (and the fraud). On that note, any suggestions for "I'm never sleeping again" level scary movies? The closest I've found recently is The Babadook.

[@nevskislake]

I would recommend The Wailing. It is one the scariest modern horror films I have seen, but I also know what is scary is subjective.

[@nelsonth]

I am not particularly frightened of horror. But these are some films/series I think are 'good' engaging horror, just off the top of my head It Follows The Haunting of Hill House The Wailing Train to Busan Hereditary The Orphanage Suspiria (the newer one) The Witch The Lady in Black The Ritual Hannibal (TV series) Haven't included any older 'classics' or anything that's overtly moralistic in the Judaeo Christian mold. Some of these you might find more atmospheric or creepy than scary per se.

[@dkingsbury]

Look into Asian horror. A whole different ball game over there 😱

[@bloomindoom]

The Witch (use subtitles), Hereditary (a lot like The Babadook but more oppressive atmosphere, The Poughkeepsie Tapes (found footage), Audition (japanese. Very gory), the first 30 or so Marble Hornets videos (slenderman. All on KZbin), Misery (fav King movie after The Shining), The Lobster (comedy not horror, but horrifying things happen). I've been watching horror video game let's plays more than movies lately. For one, games have a better shot at nailing cosmic horror (love me some existential dread) than movies. The 2nd thing is interactivity. Finding a clean (not too many deaths or interruptions) playthrough or movie edit is a great substitute for movies imho. Stuff that's stayed with me after: No One Lives Under the Lighthouse (there's multiple endings. Watch the longest one. It goes full cosmic horror), PT (an almost Silent Hill game), Visage (based on PT, but longer and intense atmosphere), Song of Horror (long, but the ending still haunts me), Faith (Exorcist the game), or any of the classic Silent Hills. Nyx Fears just did an epic video series or horror movie recommendations (and stuff to never watch ever lest you be permanently scarred): kzbin.info/www/bejne/apvSiJiPfc-inck

[@bigfrogs4207]

try noroi the curse. i was gonna make a case for a few more artsy ones but if you just want to be terrified go nuts.

[@becky97ladygaga]

is the american film relationship with "sin" not a result of the hays code which stll has an imprint on todays films

[@mrzoohasaninn]

I think the hays code definitely didn't help matters, but sin has been a motif within storytelling for almost as long as storytelling has existed. Society itself dictates morality and by extension created the hays code to enforce that dominant morality. You can't ever take an artist, whether they be a writer or a director or a painter, out of the society that they grew up in. Even if they don't necessarily agree with what they've been taught, it's going to impact them and therefore their work.

[@Syurtpiutha]

Interesting contrast when it comes to Dracula the book vs Dracula adaptations: Lucy Westenra is not portrayed as promiscuous at all. She has three suitors, yes, but that has more to do with being from a well-off family than her acting like a temptress or anything. She is described as a maiden and a real sweetheart. If adaptations portrayed her as she was portrayed in the book, by their rules she should have lived.

[@StygianBeach]

Didn't she have a job though?

[@SirThinks2Much]

StygianBeach she was aristocracy so didn’t have to work; her BFF Mina is a middle class working woman, who ends up surviving her attack and aids Van Helsing and the rest to hunt Dracula down.

[@saturdaynightmares5138]

Jamie Lee Curtis smoked weed in Halloween and was just fine lol

[@dullahans7180]

Was she? She spent her whole life running from Michael. And that’s because she smoked weed!

[@codyburgess8594]

Epic flaw

[@weedjuul6519]

That was the first real slasher and the rules weren’t established yet

[@matthewburdick4966]

"The trick to surviving a horror movie is to find out what kind of horror movie you're in." Unfortunately that didn't work for the critic in Lady in the Water :(

[@Zunile03scape]

The critic had the sin of being a 'know it all'/ he trusted in his own powers of deduction in Lady in the Water. He acted like an Oracle or Fortuneteller and clearly was not Humble, at least according to the movie hence why he died. I though critic death was ham-fisted as I don't think he delivered his advice as certain solutions to the lead who asked him. the Director just had to make a point.

[@DFloyd84]

He wasn't in a horror movie, he was in a horrible movie.

[@MrsBerry-of3lr]

Thanks for showing clips of all my favorite horror movies 💓!

[@katherinepagan4860]

Okay, so what horror movie are we in and what are the rules for survival? : P

[@wafflotes0X]

That would probably be a dystopia, and if we go with the modern trend it would be being a teenager and distrusting adults, or if we go the classic way; you dont do it, you go with the system becasuse nothing can be done... I really hope we are in a scifi horror movie.

[@nimbus6988]

@@wafflotes0X Thats... surprisingly accurate. I am now scared.

[@Taeerom]

@@wafflotes0X But we shouldn't be the friends or family with that teenager. Those are bound to die in order to reach the turning point of the story. Or as a way to build the background for said teenager, they saw you die and that made them take action or whatever.

[@gwendolynstata3775]

The Purge

[@IndieGinge]

Literally none of us are making it out, there's nothing we can do to stop that, and there are people who will do horrific things just to eke out a little more power in life or achieve an esoteric form of immortality within the collective memory of the species. Our horror is 100% cosmic.

[@toonbat]

The key to survive a horror movie is to be bankable enough to draw moviegoers, but affordable enough to appear in the string of sequels.

[@zotaninoron3548]

Pretty sure we're in a dystopian scifi horror. If only we valued knowledge and cooperation. But we do not.

[@Shaljroan30750]

Thank you for uploading this. You're a great youtuber, i appreciate you.

[@patrickwhatsittoyou8059]

I liked the actor who played Randy, then I watched Son of the Mask...

[@supaspydamn]

Excellent vid! I love your take on how times effect what type of horror rises in popularity.

[@AtodaK]

Identifying the type of horror by what it values is an interesting call. Even though Scream looks like a Slasher thriller with its setting, method of killing etc. it doesn't assign any value to the actions that are typically death flags in the genre. Not being a virgin is fine, so is drug/alcohol use, even being a borderline exploitative journalist is fine. The people who die are the people that don't take the killings seriously enough, including the killers. At least that's how I remember it, I haven't seen it in 20 years.

[@Hypno_BPM]

I loved watching Scream and New Nightmare as a kid. RIP Wes Craven

[@kevinnashiscool1]

2020 will be a horror category of its own.

[@sheepewe4505]

About the rules of Gothic horror, the novel "Private Memoirs and Confessions of a Justified Sinner" subverts many of these tropes, and it was published in 1824. It is a black comedy/ horror with a religious fundamentalist protagonist who is seduced by the devil, and the most heroic characters in the book are two 'sinful' women, who also survive to the end.

[@AdrianDiasZa]

Randy is a high school student and Scream's depiction of the rules is Randy's teenage interpretation of the rules of his favorite horror films. Scream likes to play up the juxtaposition of what the young characters' (i.e. unreliable narrators) perceptions of horror movies are Vs. how diverse the horror movie rules actually are. Randy's interpretation of the rules, as well as his own lust, contributed to his untimely demise.

[@rafaelneumann8365]

One of my favorite subversions of the horror tropes is when the stoner in Cabin in the Woods "survives" (eh, well, at least evades the sacrificial ritual) BY being too drugged to be further drugged. Of course the movie is entirely about subverting horror (it explicitly fabricates or changes people INTO the clichés), even to the point of nihilism (it is pointless to pray to god when the "gods" are the ones who want you dead for their amusement). But that particular subversion is just too funny for me.

[@danielwiebe2123]

Great analysis. Now I’m more clear on why I love Zombie movies so much.

[@patrickmike2524]

Either the pure Madonna ... or the 80’s Madonna 😁

[@Stinkoman87]

Who is only Like A Virgin.

[@Jekyllstein_Gray]

The hypothetical line at 3:54 is basically my social interaction in a nutshell.

I think one reason Get Out was such a notable film is because it reflects different kinds of fears than a lot of mainstream horror films, typically based on white suburban fears and values, focus on. I think there is a lot to explore as far as minority horror stories, so I wish there were more minority filmmakers out there doing it.

[@21stcenturyhiphop]

We're coming, believe me.

[@enfercesttout]

Yeah i side with gothic villians.

[@Elderbch]

Another brilliant upload. I adore this channel! Thank you

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

Renegade Cut: "Faith cannot stop Michael Myers, but it can stop Dracula." Michael in Curse of Michael Myers (Director's Cut): Gets stopped by a bunch of runes Paul Rudd threw on the ground Freddy: Gets beat by his Nun mom, a lack of belief in his power, and holy water on his consecrated burial ground Though I guess that too leads to an interesting discussion of how multiple sub-genres can mix and how do you survive if you're in a mix of multiple genres with different rules? What genre would Cabin in the Woods be? It seems to mostly play to the Slasher formula though it has a lot of references to other forms (the Japan station was in the middle of a Supernatural horror, Madrid seemed to be Gothic, etc).

[@naikigutierrez4279]

The main story in The Cabin In The Woods is a very postmodern take on the slasher genre, but it shifts into cosmic horror in the third act.

[@crimsonking5961]

I'm halfway through the video. So far it's great. I'll be right back.

[@blackromulan]

Event Horizon - the perfect melding of 'Sci-Fi Horror' and 'Supernatural Horror'

[@BeautifulEarthJa]

Cosmic horror

[@DabbyDom]

How to survive a Japanese horror movie? You don't...

[@joem1480]

It's also interesting that one of the original slasher movies also subverts the trope. In Psycho it first appears to be a traditional slasher and that the girl sins and therefore she must die, but while that is a shock it's not the true horror of the movie. The actual horror of psycho is the fracturing of Norman Bates mind,

[@ThyReturner]

Wow! That last part when you referred to "cooperation" in zombie movies being the key to survival really hits when I notice a lot of times when I watch movies or even shows such as "The Walking Dead" with friends. They miss the entire moral. They always say how if they're in that world they won't trust nobody blah blah. Not realizing many of the characters fall prey to the zombies due to lack of cooperation or to each other, because sometimes it's not the zombies that are the problem, but ourselves. We are our own worst enemies. So, it makes sense we'll eat each other alive or become food.

[@luiscolin7775]

the zombie horror part makes me think: do these stories/movies condemn Science? in favor of ... you know.. good citizens working with each others and gathering all guns they can? Maybe there's room for a good episode on how Media portrays good or evil science and how it affects regular people's trust or mistrust on it...

[@mrzoohasaninn]

How the zombie movie/show/game views science can honestly vary wildly. Also, the zombies themselves can also just be stand-ins for other things. Dawn of the Dead has less to say about science than it does consumerism and capitalism. The Resident Evil movies meanwhile are closer to warnings about playing God with science than a condemnation of science itself since there are also cures to the outbreaks because of science. Also i could be reading a lot into it, but I think an argument could be made that the Resident Evil franchise has an inherent distrust of Big Corporations in general since basically if one shows up in a game, it's probably gonna be evil. It's less prevalent in the movies, but there are still remnants in it due to what Umbrella always is. And then Dead Snow's meaning is 'we just really wanted to see people kill a bunch of zombie nazis'. That last example is a joke, that movie is a joke, but the overarching themes of humanity vs inhumanity tend to pop up a lot.

[@cassinipanini]

@@mrzoohasaninn to add to your examples, Train to Busan is less about science than it is a critique of modern Korean societial values and the obligations that we hold to one another. It's interesting to consider that for some movies, zombies function like a setting, like a dystopia, than they do an conscious threat like a killer or demon. The zombie apocalypse is a place where the interpersonal stories of humans unfold

[@Taeerom]

@@mrzoohasaninn Dead SNow is obviously a serious entry in the debate "should we punch nazis". Their stance is of course: No, we should kill them with actual hammers and actual sickles.

[@marcosagrero2866]

Scream tells horror fans that they're idiots for liking horror movies

[@brandonmiles8174]

The town that Scream was based in was a fictional version of the tiny nowhere my wife is from, and supposedly, drew inspiration from a local serial killer by whom my wife's uncle was murdered when he and her dad were teenagers.

[@felman87]

If the people who survive horror movies are the ones society values, it puts into perspective why brownies like me tend to die so often in them :/

[@o0Avalon0o]

I've discussed whether the waning of underdog movies & the resurgence of zombie movies was because of the ruling classes growing fear of the lower classes revolting, upending their lives & taking everything they hold dear.

[@ZenGuyMax]

Nicely done. I wrote a similar essay on the Horror sub-genres back in my Film School days...I was fed up with people thinking that Horror="Slasher" films (I also had a "Splatter-Punk" sub-category, in which the "grossest" special fx was one of the goals...) 😎

[@kbrazz]

I believe there was a theory about how Cabin in the Woods plays off what you call the slasher rules of horror, and when it to an extent does not follow that.... the 'bimbo' is a smart girl, the virgin being the one that sleeps with the professor, the scholar the sports addict, and the innocent minded stoner is truly more virginal. And that's why the sacrifice in CitW failed... wrong rules. They were against zombies not in a slasher despite being in the cabin so considered 'typical' of slashers. they were using the wrong genre.

[@fenixmagicjd]

Aww, that outro with Don LeFontaine...RIP

[@havanadaurcy1321]

Another rule from Italian actor Francesco Acquaroli just before he puts on a Snow White and the seven dwarfs Doc mask in Hope Lost and almost kills me laughing: Before inevitable doom, there must always be a scene of hope.

[@LogicGated]

The slasher movie tropes are truly, really well documented, I remember reading some analyses after watching another video essay

[@kiloalphahotel5354]

Thanks for the vid. Always great.

[@doctorwolfman5221]

Thanks for the dulcet tones of Don LaFontaine at the end!

[@MintyAndee]

Although I understand in the context of most popular zombie movies, the analysis of 'secular' is correct, I feel it is an oversight to not mention that zombies come from Haiti and the voodoo religion. And there are zombie movies, particularly in the Blacksploitation genre, that retain zombie-ism as the outcome of spiritual forces.

[@birdbride1504]

EXACTLY why the thing and alien are some of my fave horror movies

[@captainocd]

I am impressed with your output.

[@Hawkatana]

Fun fact, in the original Dracula novel, Lucy was the pure one while Mina was an intelligent and independant woman who was basically the only sane person in the book.

[@jenniferp1917]

I have nothing to add to the conversation about horror movie rules, but I just want to say I love the 1992 "Bram Stoker's Dracula." The costumes, the cinematography, Gary Oldman at his sexiest...

[@TheDarkSatirist]

this feels like vintage renegade in the best way

[@Darkstar1484]

Also theres nothing out there did self aware horror early. There were some interesting arguments about horror culture involving the exorcist

[@goldencalf5144]

Brilliant analysis, as usual.

[@21Arrozito]

How to survive a cosmic horror movie: eh, you kind of don't

[@StCrimson667]

Horror KZbinr, Nyx Fears, has a great video about slasher movies as a "suburban nightmare".

[@amandafranklin1914]

Yeah, the only zombie movie I can think of with a demonic element is the Rec series. I'm sure more exist, but this is probably the most popular.

[@Spookybluelights]

I’m not sure I would blanket supernatural horror specifically in Christian values only. At least in the last twenty or so years, that sub genre has moved away from that to be more about people seeped in trauma that must be confronted and (in most cases) made peace with. You see this in much of the J-Horror craze from the early 2000’s and would extend into much of the found footage style of supernatural horror (though in fairness there was just as much rehashing of the Christian values stuff in that) and they would influence later works like those of Mike Flanagan or James Wan.

[@gsac3529]

My favorite zombie movie is Shaun Of The Dead.

[@4891issuJ]

Hostel kind of did away with the usual survivor type - a bold move but I didn't really feel like rooting for a guy who in my eyes was a bit of a prick. Horror movies are simply much better with a likeable lead that you can relate to.

[@Goldman200]

Regarding the sci-fi horror movies, I remember watching some movies of that subgenre from the 50s and the aliens/monsters are defeated by brute force by the military, while the scientists and priests are regarded as cowards or deluded. Then again, this says a lot of the time period.

[@TONYGILLEY]

I think one of Randy's Rules of Survival can apply to any sub-genre of Horror to varying degrees: Never say "I'll be right Back"

[@masterronin776]

Great video as always, Leon. I wanted to ask something that's related but I've never really been able to define well. How would you define the difference between a horror movie and a thriller? The best I can come up with is that a thriller is rooted in more mundane settings or that a horror movie is simply a more violent thriller.

[@cassinipanini]

I feel like this is a venn diagram but im not smart enough to figure out what goes in which category

[@euansmith3699]

What sort of Horror Movie am I in? Some sort of dystopian, pandemic nightmare; where magical thinking will doom us all?

[@jesterfrombeyond1776]

A better question that is asked in the movie is how many sequels to movies are better than the orignal one except for starwars? There arent many but here are some I remeber of the top of my head: - Lord of the Ring - The Dark kight - Aliens - The Godfather 2

[@ryandowney8743]

What annoys me about Scream is that a legend like Wes Craven referred to them as "rules". I would think of all people he would know better. That the tropes are the result of hundreds of schlock movies with BAD WRITING, regurgitating lazy excuses to kill characters, not caring about logic or motivation. Scream subverts some of the things it mentions (a character who has sex survives), but it follows others too (killer gets up one last time). It wants to have it's cake and eat it too.

[@matthewbdemented]

I disagree with that last bit. From what I remember, up until that point, the whole movie was subverting and playing with the tropes of the slasher. So, you'd expect it to do that the whole film, but it doesn't in that the killer gets up one last time, it's subverting your expectations by un-subverting the expectation (if that makes sense). I also think Craven and Kevin Williamson, the guy who wrote Scream, actually did know better, they made the self-proclaimed horror expert call them "rules" when the rules only apply to one sub-genre, it's clear Randy didn't know what he was talking about.

[@teenprez]

Super interesting analysis!

[@juretrcek5434]

There are so many different types of horror movies that I am not sure which rules apply to everyone so I would depends on the type the writer and I guess the intended message

[@te-ter]

The last horror movie that I've seen was **Alice, Sweet Alice (1976)**. Spoilers btw, but I was turned off when the killer's motive was revealed: to cleanse the town of the sin. It's hypocritical, not that I have high hopes for the integrity of serial killers. Before that I saw **REC (2007)**, and while it has good ratings, I was also disappointed in the ending. When they entered the room and we saw all the Catholic symbols of devotion and Vatican posters and whatnot, I felt as if I have wasted 80 minutes of my evening for a Vatican conspiracy. I'm not a Catholic anymore, but tracing all the bad to demons and the Church gets tiring.

[@romanmaster51]

Big fan, keep making these videos

[@EpicVideoMaster11]

Amazing work

[@Turner_Strait]

so what you're telling me is that IT'S A VERY! SIMLPLE! FORMULA! EVERYBODY'S A SUSPECT!

[@craiganderson7398]

When they say that a horror movie's survival rate is defined by what they value, I can't help but think of the priest from the 1953 War of the Worlds. He had faith that his God would protect him from the invading Martians, and was incinerated. (Uh, spoilers for a 67 year old movie. Sorry!) But you put that sucker in an old school vampire flick, and that guy would have been unstoppable! :D

[@pdthorn]

I’m here for meta modernist commentary.

[@ChuckyMarks]

It’s all I live for now.

[@djuradjuric7161]

Come and See is the greatest horror movie of all time.

[@simonblanjean6538]

I really wish you could watch Chroma's video about Silent night Deadly Night and slasher movies in general but it's in French 😬 Karim Debbache is possibly as good as you, which is saying a lot about both of you.

[@arlem525]

The thing is the sole survivor of the Thing

[@nancyjay790]

I think "Alien" is a haunted house movie.

[@nicholasnora139]

Leon yet again great work keep it up!

[@7kurisu]

This could be the reason horror tends to be my most maligned genre: cheap thrills and conservative values. Just a shopping mall with more explicit gore

[@dobb7101]

Fun episode. Thanks.

[@BugVlogs]

Not to be that guy, but Poltergeist came out in 1982, not 1983.

[@renegadecut9875]

It's OK, I don't mind being corrected about stuff like that. A typo. My finger must have slipped, and I didn't notice even after re-watching it a couple times. Whoops.