The REAL Superhero fatigue that NO ONE notices!

The Script Doctor shares his insights on what may be the real cause behind #superhero #fatigue and overall audience decline.
Watch a great discussion about fraudulent creators here: • Fraudulent Creators: A...
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#disney #marvel

[@lookinforthe70s]

Yes, there's no superhero fatigue. There's bad movie fatigue.

[@RealityCheck6969]

Well said. If you have bad and very bad movies for years and years, you have no right to call it "superhero fatigue".

[@Christian_Ada1]

No not well said He’s farting lies

[@slicedbread5692]

Ive been saying this since the first utterance of superhero fatigue.. if Dark Knight came out tomorrow, nobody would say anything about superhero fatigue.

[@chrislittle7665]

God bless you, Script Doctor - you diagnosed the problem faster and expressed it more clearly than I have ever seen anyone do before.

[@johnonorato6094]

You raise some very good points. I did not notice the same writing team wrote that string of quality Marvel movies. However I do feel audience fatigue can be real. Think of your all time favorite meal. Now eat it 33 times in a row. Eventually you want something else. The meal hasn't changed but your taste has.

[@ScriptDoctor]

If you're only watching Marvel movies and nothing else, that would be a fair argument. But most audiences tend to have a variety. However, if the meal has changed (eg. expired meats or vegetables) but the recipe is the same, you won't like it. But who's responsible for cooking it with bad food? You or the chef?

[@GoddessOfWhim2003]

1:53 thank you for showing a little love for Dark World ❤

[@BillPeschel]

The mediocre quality of these movies have been noticed and talked about by KZbinrs ever since Endgame. The big question is why Disney/Marvel are unable to schedule a movie production in the same way in recent years. You know: script, pre-production, filming, post-production, release. And when a movie bombs, why does the writer and producers responsible for it get promoted into new jobs that deliver the same result.

[@aSongFromTheSixties]

Perfectly put. Give something the time and love it deserves, people are going to like it. Crank out sloppily put together product, strictly to make money, people will notice and respond negatively.

[@celticarchie]

Remember we supposedily had Star War fatigue after only two movies and a spin-off. ;P

[@Batman88878]

A good take. One disagreement: the decline beginning with Civil War. Civil War & Infinity War are some of the best MCU & Marvel Comics-based films. Period. I think Markus & McFeely's weakest written MCU movie was Endgame, & that movie was still dope. I also liked Marvel bringing a martial arts kung-fu film in with Shang-Chi. Its problem lies in the "Marvel humor" & not taking inspiration from 70s martial arts classic thrillers enough. If I was writing/making Shang-Chi, I'd be looking at Shaw Brothers, Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, Gordon Liu, etc. It did have well-shot fight scenes & Tony Leung as the Mandarin was a win.

[@Orange_Swirl]

The video is produced better than 99% of Disney movies that come out nowadays. You earned a like and a subscriber.

[@Christian_Ada1]

Only a handful of children agree with you 😂

[@lobstereleven4610]

Absolutely 👏👏👏

[@CaffeinatedWolfe]

So I gotta ask... where the hell has THIS mic been during our Tuesday night show? 😂

[@ScriptDoctor]

It's my recording voice. It only shows up when I'm recording a video or talking over the phone. 🤷‍♂

[@CaffeinatedWolfe]

DANGIT, Scrpit!

[@titusvarughese5071]

Fatigue is already happen after Civil War. Now the quality so bad for most movies, I believe Hollywood killed itself after the strike.

[@angelcibej349]

Well said sir :) Excellent analysis 👍

[@necessity1]

The real problem is the ideology. Everything else would have self corrected by now if it were just simple mistakes like inexperienced writers or poor production values. Disney's decline is deliberate self sabotage by adherence to ideas no one wants.

[@user-yc6pt6wu7o]

Bad writing and direction fatigue is the truth.

[@builditonce]

You can't deny they gave up on mass appeal. They could have hired good writers.

[@kieroncampion120]

I still think audiences love bad movies and superhero movies. They have done for the last 100 years and that isn't going to change.

[@keelychow4569]

For me, it’s not superhero fatigue. It’s crappy superhero movie fatigue. I’m sick and tired of crappy superhero movies. I rather watch reruns of Buffy the Vampire Slayer on COMET, and reruns of Batman, Wonder Woman, and Adventures of Superman on H&I.

[@fareshajjar1208]

It's girlboss fatigue. That's the whole thing.

[@justcallmebard]

is he running his voice through a filter?

[@jamescole7930]

Yes we like the movies to reflect the comics. Not the new crapy comics. But the original ones from the 60’s-90’s . Can they not just read the comics and say” hey it is already mapped out for us. Let’s do that.” Amazing, a time tested formula that fans and readers like. Who could of imagined that.

[@darkengine5931]

I seem to be in the odd camp that never liked most of the Western superhero genre even as a little boy. I was much more attracted to the likes of Conan or Dredd with no superpowers whatsoever over the likes of Spiderman and Superman. I emphasize "Western" above since I do like many Japanese superheroes, for example, even with their superpowers. Yet there's a huge difference in how the superpowers typically work. If we take a Western superhero like Spiderman or Superman, their defensive power tends to scale in proportion to their offensive power. So they might be so strong that they can punch through a concrete wall, but they're such tanks that they can also easily take and shrug off punches of equal force. The end result is that they become near-invincible. Meanwhile, a lot of Japanese superheroes (at least the ones I liked) often receive superpowers where their offensive capability is greatly multiplied but not so much their defense. If we take superheroes like those in Hokuto no Ken (along with many others like Claymore, Saint Seiya, Riki-Oh/Story of Ricky), their superpowers make them absurdly strong and able to do things like hack off limbs with their bare hands, crush people's skulls with one hnad, and cause people's heads to explode with a single deadly touch. Yet they're just as vulnerable to those attacks as anyone else, and many main characters often die very gruesome deaths. So with many Japanese superheroes, their superpowers actually make them more fragile and prone to die, not less, elevating the nerve-wracking nature of every single battle where we know that combat between two superheroes (or super villains) will be extremely lethal with only one making it out alive (and the other never being resurrected). Their plot armor tends to be about as thin as characters in Game of Thrones. That's so much more interesting in my opinion, like giving characters guns to skyrocket their offensive force but without giving them bulletproof vests (and keeping them just as vulnerable to bullet wounds as any ordinary human being), while the Western equivalent often figuratively provides the gun but also a near-invincible tank for armor to match. This type of suspense -- given how ridiculously vulnerable our protags are -- is generally something I find sorely missing in Western comic books. So in a sense, I've had a certain type of superhero fatigue even as a little boy.

[@ScriptDoctor]

You're misunderstanding the logic of super powers in Western culture. If a super hero could punch through a wall, but be just as vulnerable as a normal person they would then crush their fists. No matter how strong one's muscles get, the density of their bones remains the same. It's part of Newton's second law applied to the physics of super powers. So to address this, the logic is that the body is also strong enough to accommodate the powers as well. This creates a balance within their power set. In fact, in the examples you provided about decapitation with bare hands, but they too can be victims of such attacks, follows a similar logic step. But more often than not, this logic is superseded in Eastern story for the sake of fun. The rules the East use, while nonsense, are consistent within each story (or at least try to be as with Western stories), which allows us to suspend our disbelief and enjoy the adventure. A hero like Superman is vulnerable to someone of equal strength, like another Kryptonian, or another alien. A hero like Spider-man while immensely strong and durable, can be killed by average weapons, such as guns, knives, and bombs, and even poison. He's resilient, but not invulnerable. It is called a status level. On a powers level, normal people do not measure up with the superpowered hero physically (you see this in Japanese stories as well). But it doesn't prohibit the normal person from combating them intellectually. This creates new dynamics. Sometimes these are used in Eastern storytelling, but I found those instances to be rare in the more popular franchises (but then again, I have not perused all of Anime/Manga). What I find interesting is how you find suspense in the death of a character far more interesting than the character failing. I find that very interesting, because death and failure in a story are not always the same thing.

[@darkengine5931]

​@@ScriptDoctor I can certainly appreciate that logic and I would admit that there's an even greater absurdity in terms of physics and anatomy to the likes of Kenshiro than Superman. For me, it's mostly the way I respond emotionally in terms of suspense. Typically the times I'm cringing most in a Superman film is not when Superman is being hit so hard that a skyscraper collapses on him but when the very vulnerable Lois Lane is falling from a building and Superman has to save her in the nick of time, e.g. Or in the presence of Kryptonite as you mentioned, but I always found that rather contrived. As for death vs. failure, I do distinguish the two but often a lot of superhero fiction revolves heavily around fight scenes. Death and injury are often the main consequences I find worth fearing most in the context of combat if the writers give me a strong impression that there's a genuine risk for our protag to die or become severely crippled. That risk is something that seems generally absent in a lot of Western superhero comic books. Actually I got so excited as a boy and started to think Superman comics might actually be interesting when that issue came out (apologies for my vagueness; I only remember flipping through it in an comic book store around the late 80s or early 90s) where Superman dies. Then I was so extremely disappointed because a week later or so, I found a new issue where he was resurrected back from the dead. If we're instead talking about a film like Rocky, failure in that context is not necessarily that he dies or even gets injured or even loses to Apollo Creed, only fails to go the distance. I love such films that frame failure in more nuanced ways since that creates far more ways for things to go wrong and elevates the suspense for me.

[@darkengine5931]

​@@ScriptDoctorActually the most interesting aspect of the Superman story to me is not the story about Superman, but his disguise as Clark Kent and the inner conflict he has with his love of Lois Lane who is in love with Superman (a rather peculiar love triangle given that Superman and Clark are the same person). My personal tastes align with that conflict more than any fight scene involving Superman. I'm in the minority camp that actually fell asleep during Man of Steel's fight scenes in the movie theater and found it so dull despite the spectacular VFX. But for fight scenes in particular, my favorites have always been the ones where I was thoroughly convinced that my favorite characters could die because the writers killed off enough main characters to strongly convince me of the possibility. One of my all-time favorites is the attempted execution of Titus Pullo in Rome (TV series) in the gladiatorial arena; I was so convinced that I was about to witness the death of Pullo. Another is the scene in Game of Thrones between Red Viper and the Mountain where I was sure one of them was going to die and with the stakes elevated where, if the Red Viper lost, Tyrion would also be found guilty. I love fight scenes with those kinds of extremely high stakes and truly high risk of failure (established from the previous writing because the authors aren't at all shy to kill even a favorite character).

[@ScriptDoctor]

​@@darkengine5931 Your first mistake is thinking Clark Kent is the disguise. It isn't. Clark Kent is who he is, Superman is what he can do. He grew up as Clark Kent. Yes, he had powers, but he wasn't Superman. He created Superman. I don't blame you for being confused, a lot of crappy writers have viewed Superman through the lens you described because they weren't paying attention to the character, but rather the powers. Your comparisons from Superheroes to legendary Roman tales are not equal. Stories of mortals, vs. stories of superhero's or the supernatural are not the same. But they can still follow the same rules. The gimmick you seem to be missing is that your conflating Western heroes with omnipotence when they have never been depicted as such. The stakes are always there. It's up to the writer to convince you of their importance. But if an audience isn't willing to accept the stakes, be them good or bad, then they will always have a skewed perspective.

[@ScriptDoctor]

​@@darkengine5931 Your very criticism of Superman catching Lois was solved in 1978. It's not an easy catch as your eye is focused on the character, but if you watch the background in the famous scene, Superman is actually flying downward with Lois as he catches her. They slow to a stop, and they fly up. This was done because Richard Donner knew if Superman were to simply catch Lois, her body would explode the same way as if she were to hit the ground. These rules have been consistent since readers began asking questions. Superman has such precise control over his powers he can interact with Humans without harming them, even during a rescue. That's part of what makes him earn the title of Superman. As for the Death and Return of Superman. That story was a six month arch. So based on your story, you found those issues probably around the summer of 1993 (as he died in October of 1992). It was a gimmick brought on by trying to stay in synch with the new Lois & Clark Superman show. But that's another story for another time. Death and Injury are never main consequences in the way your describing. They are the cause to the main consequences. Think of it like this: A character dies, the world reacts. How they react is the consequence. A hero dies trying to stop a villain. The villain wins and enacts their plan. That plan IS the consequence. The reaction to that is a new hero must rise to the occasion. The question? The stakes? Can the new hero stop the villain who defeated the previous hero? It isn't about if the new hero will live or die, but it is centered around the actions of the antagonist. Can they achieve their goal? Those are actually consequences. Luke losing his hand to Darth Vader is not on the same level of him learning that Darth Vader is his father. More people discuss that scene barely even mentioning that Luke lost his hand in that fight, because that is not a consequence of the scene. The scene, and consequence is that he's been fighting his father this entire time. It poses the question: What can Luke do next? You can bring up Rocky (as I did with Star Wars), but as this is a video about Superhero fatigue, and your comments are regarding superheroes and their difference in story telling between Eastern and Western methods, then let's keep the discussion on that subject.

[@gregmize01]

THE MCU DIED WITH TONY.

[@kadourimdou43]

True. The consequence of identity politics, is that the scripts will always be rubbish. Even if production was at pre End Game level, the very fact of talking points, and an in/out group ideological lens, would doom the movies to failure.

[@setlik3gaming80]

3ed Like and 1st comment to defeat the evil 😈 KZbin algorithm. 🙏🖖🏽

[@troubadour723]

Well, this is what happens when entertainment must be tailored to some collective clinging to adolescence instead of growing up and moving forward.

[@johncipolla8335]

here is the rub. I am tired of comic book based movies. too much out there and too many changes from the original source material

[@punishedsan5900]

the way you shade your pngtuber makes it look like you have super sweaty armpits and it was distracting me the whole time. I'd change that

[@Christian_Ada1]

Or great another disingenuous KZbinr who never brings up inflation as a reason people are hardly going to theatres making movies flop blame woke, blame women blame Gays never inflation Get a job as a politician you’ll go just fine The hits Top Gun Maverick Barbie Super Mario Bros Oppenheimer Flops Mission Impossible Fast X Aquaman 2 definitely There is definitely superhero fatigue going on although you live in denial along with inflation Try again with a better narrative

[@ScriptDoctor]

Interesting how inflation didn't stop any of the films you mentioned being a success, but only the movies from Marvel studios? Never blamed women or gays. They aren't a problem. Never were. The problem was that they were producing too much, and due to the studios lack of effort in making their stories the best they could be, they instead thought the brand to be indestructible and pumped out product without the quality. Audiences are never the problem for why they don't show up to a movie, and based on the successes you listed, neither is inflation.