The Real Traitor in Red Dead Redemption 2 Story?

[@nikeshadow1728]

Rockstar themselves have said that Micah is the rat, but making videos like this could be fun. But I think, if Rockstar didn't say anything. I think that the gang didn't need a rat. The gang made way too much noise, and drew the Pinkertons right to them.

[@wizarddragon]

'If Rockstar didn't say anything' lmao we all know the one thing Rockstar is great at now is saying nothing.

[@DENOhritko]

When did Rockstar said so?

[@Darth-Shaneious]

I've searched Google and found no quote of Rockstar employees confirming Micah was the rat.

[@professionalgamer6522]

Also people say "Milton just wanted to destroy the gang so he lied to Arthur". As Roger Clark said, Milton had no intention of letting Arthur leave. He had Arthur at his mercy. He wouldn't just let Arthur leave

[@1403Anand]

It was the game characters who said that Micah is the rat but I believe that the gang didn’t need a rat which is realistic!!

[@knightingale9833]

I think Micah is the rat and it makes sense because he told Arthur exactly why, “I’m a survivor.” He likely got caught by the Pinkertons, and they offered to let him free if he helped them, so he agreed to, and he gave them as little as possible to keep them happy while planning to get away with Dutch and the strongest members of the gang at the earliest opportunity.

[@maggi7340]

Thats a really good theory

[@jocatorejenerico]

I think "I'm a survivor" is really important, because it's the only time when Micah hints he could be the rat; I mean he doesn't deny it, it seems he wants to justify himself by saying he wants to survive.

[@kadeemjones30]

Also didn’t the Pinkertons find the money from the Blackwater robbery? That would also be the reason why he turned into a rat cause if you noticed Micah would always ask Dutch to go back for the money

[@straightfrommissouri]

*"IMMA SURVIVOR!!!!!!"*

[@Marz539]

He killed one of the strongest members

[@TheProdiKaLiSon]

I like Arthur's view at the end. I thought that too, maybe there is no rat. Maybe they got sloppy and forgot how to tighten up and cover their tracks as a gang. I think RDR2s main theme was to show the end of a notorious gang that doesn't realize their days are numbered. Or that they are resisting the fact that it's already over and they are a dying breed of the old west. Like Dutch said, "you can't fight change...you can't fight gravity..." In RDR2, what we as the player are witnessing is inevitable fall of a gang that is not only stuck in the past, reluctant to adapt to change, but is in denial about the changing world around them. Pretty damn deep and brilliant. Damn this game is a masterpiece.

[@danteferraro23]

nah dosent make sense lol there was definitley a rat but it wasnt micah or molly

[@TheProdiKaLiSon]

@@danteferraro23 it was Jack

[@highschoolstoner8862]

@@TheProdiKaLiSon I fully support jack being the rat, that's why he wanted Arthur to go get his book. Jack knew that when he found the book the Pinkertons would follow him as is why we see them while fishing, I think that when Jack was collecting flowers for the necklace he spoke to the Pinkertons and told them everything in exchange for John and Abigail to outlive the gang. Just a theory tho

[@loki2655]

Molly was trying to warn Arthur that Dutch had changed Abigail probably escaped because Hosea gave himself up and distracted the Pinkertons, it was the turn of the century, women weren't important enough to be prime targets. John was kept alive to draw Dutch out. He and Arthur were basically his sons.

[@themanlyman7737]

make sense

[@birdsteak9267]

So by saving John, Arthur dragged them along to the Camp, at least the direction of the camp, when all the explosions went off, it was simply about time until they narrowed them down.

[@ABQSentinel]

Here's the thing about Agent Milton telling Arthur that Micah was the rat--in that moment, Milton fully expected that Arthur would be dead in the next few moments, so why lie to him? And his reaction about Molly seemed genuinely surprised. So I think Molly was just angry and said something she felt would provoke a reaction from Dutch. With regard to Abigail, the women didn't have the ability to come and go like the men did. So it's unlikely she would have been able to slip away to tell Agent Milton where Arthur was. Also, she can't have known how Arthur would react. There is a high likelihood that a shootout might have happened, which would have put Jack in danger. Abigail would never have done that. As for her escape, the Agents likely ignored her and went after Hosea since he was deemed a high-value target. As for theory #3, the gang definitely had lousy OpSec, and that undoubtedly contributed to their misfortunes. Ultimately, however, I think Micah fouled up the Blackwater heist in order to try and claim the loot for himself. When that failed, he went off on a tear and got himself arrested in Strawberry. After that, he began working to undermine the gang, hoping to end up as the last man standing so he could go back to Blackwater and take the heist money. Finally, he decided to work with the Pinkerton's in order to increase his chances of being able to take that money for himself. Personally, I saw through Micah in the first 5 mintues. If I could play how I wanted, I would have made sure he died in Strawberry and then reported to Dutch that I wasn't able to save him.

[@noahbeal4555]

You're the first to point out something I've always noticed about micah: he gets SHIFTY AF whenever the blackwater momey is brought up. Getting his hands on that money was clearly micah's goal all along, it's the ONLY reason he road with the gang. The story goes to all the trouble of showing you why each character came to the gang and why they stayed, except for micah. It's up to us to notice why micah bothers to hang around in a gang where almost no one likes him, where the women "wouldn't sleep with him even if he put a gun to their head", and where his survivalist instincts must have been screaming at him that it's time to get out. The answer is the blackwater money. He constantly asked dutch for permission to go back and get it, even offering to do it ALONE so that "no one else was in danger". Ratting out the group was his way of bypassing dutch's authority and the retaliation that would come from the gang if he took the money for himself. When we see him in the epilogue he's still hanging around dutch because dutch clearly refused to leave micah alone with the money. So when john comes along, dutch waits it out in the standoff and then uses the opportunity to get rid of micah.

[@mehulajax21]

Micah has Ryder from GTA San Andreas all written over him...I felt the same..

[@IcemanBandzOfficial]

I kouldn’t have said it better 💯💯💯

[@ozero00rockon]

@@noahbeal4555 I mean, after a replay of the game. There was dialogue I saw a couple of weeks ago from Dutch at Horseshoe point, he asks Micah what his true motivations are. Micah being the confounded idiot stumbled and said to follow Dutch no matter what. I do remember every time he mentions the Blackwater money, Dutch dismisses it.

[@braize6279]

Because Arthur wasn't the only person in the room. There is also nothing saying that Milton was going to kill Arthur in that moment. You are speculating by saying that Milton expected Arthur to die there. Sure, we are all speculating, but I for one don't believe a word from Agent Milton.

[@GlorgangENT]

I personally think Molly acted like that because she wanted attention from Dutch , throughout the story Dutch true love interest was mentioned to killed by Colm. Dutch is mainly focused on the gang and their situation So i think molly making a story up about putting the gang in a situation she would get recognized even if it meant death because at this point what did she have to lose? The Pinkertons are a sly group known to torture till death as mentioned with Strauss but correct me if I'm wrong they're not shown to abuse women and children (even in Rdr they kept Abigail and Jack in good hands) I think they would've let her go if she was no use , she was dead to them anyway. And With Micah ,Well he does have dutches wanted poster at his camp in strawberry. I understand they dont say say he was ratting Until late game but that doesn't mean he wasn't going behind the gang otherwise. Like when Arthur got kidnapped By the Odriscalls , he knew it might be a trap and Micah specifically picked Arthur to snipe. Then colm tells Arthur hes gunna wait for Dutch To come save him and have him ambushed by the Pinkertons. If Arthur died it wouldve left that chain of command all up to micah. (Plus is horse is a refrence to the dark horse from rdr if that means anything). But this is what i think personally and Good video Cat! This game simply wouldn't be amazing if they straight up told us everything and it allows for wonderful theories and another thing, I think them being so reckless is a major cause in their downfall , Dutch in a whole led the gang to their graves.

[@maggi7340]

If u look at the real history of the Pinkertons they did kill the women and the childs sometimes because they were so harsh and unforgiving. Btw the Pinkertons where a real group IRL.

[@GlorgangENT]

@@maggi7340 Yea I heard they Hurt a famous outlaw Mom and killed his brother IRL but in game wise the females rarely committed enough crimes for them to be enough use to them

[@FreshmanBaird]

@@maggi7340 yep there was legal dispute over it with this game when it came out

[@alucardtherealvampire6470]

RDR1 had the FBI

[@GlorgangENT]

@@alucardtherealvampire6470 it also had the Mexican army but Agent Ross was obviously a Pinkerton, shown in the end Credits of Rd2 following the events of rd1

[@ThePsiclone]

Got to go with Arthur's ideas. Considering they're supposed to be lying low, letting the heat cool off, they sure as hell made enough noise to get everyone's attention, and pretty much all of it was Dutch's idea. Then you got Bill and Uncle running their mouths all over creation, Micah killing everyone he could, Sadie slaughtering ODriscalls left right n centre. They're killing dozens if not hundreds of people as if nobody would notice!, so you didn't need to be very clever to find them, just follow the trail of corpses.

[@straightfrommissouri]

Funny how people just jump on me for all of their own short comings

[@TheRK77]

@@straightfrommissouri you damn rat

[@loki2655]

They turned up in Blackwater because it was a trap. Dutch had been pushing his luck and drawing too much attention. Same in Saint Dennis. He had just shot half the police force trying to escape the Tram Station. The only viable target for him to hit was the bank and the Pinkertons knew it was only a matter of time before he did. His ego and desperation ensured his stupidity

[@ValtheRatArtist]

Every time I look back at the story all the times Abigail did manage to get away It would make sense if she did say something to the Pinkertons. Kind of suspected she was against them since the very beginning. But seem to have quite the bitterness against John seem like she was trying to push him to leave so they could become a normal family. One be surprised if she tried to work with them in order to really get John to leave

[@jasonoy3142]

i doubt it, since John was caught in the bank robbery, Abigail pleaded with Dutch to save John. I’ll say the reason she manage to escape was because the pinkertons or sheriff didn’t kno she was part of the gang nor had wanted posters of her

[@kingbattle393]

@@jasonoy3142 I think when Hosea was captured if they were directly confronted Hosea would have allowed himself to be captured to prevent her from getting caught, Hosea was a good guy and was probably thinking of jack knowing John was incapable at the time

[@armandoacevedo9168]

@@kingbattle393 yeah I agree with that 100% Hosea was the true father of the gang looking out and wanted everyone to be safe just as he said in chapter 2 when he said “I ain’t got much time, Dutch. I want folks to be safe once I go”

[@IcemanBandzOfficial]

@@armandoacevedo9168 💯💯💯🤧🥹

[@jerrylivingston2699]

All of them got away except 3 of them

[@dvsreed]

Always thought Micah was always playing all possible angles. At times working with Colm O'Driscoll which explains how they caught Arthur so easily at the meeting with Colm. At times working with Pinkertons, giving some good info and some fake info.....just biding his time until he could get Dutch back to Blackwater to get the money

[@Rex-X-Dark]

That's the best theory I've heard on the character and in makes sense as he said he's a survivor (also long theory coming up) I had a theory that Micah was a member of the O'Driscolls who was ordered by Colm to infiltrate the gang. Now I don't know what his relationship with the gang or Colm was but theirs many things that suggests he was affiliated with them (Saving Dutch) I find it weird that Micah appears outta nowhere to save Dutch's life almost like he was waiting for the perfect moment to get into his good graces. I mean why would Micah of all people go out of his way to save someone else without a bigger reason behind it. (Interactions with O'Driscolls) Now yes while Micah kills O'Driscolls that doesn't really disprove this as we know the kinda character Micah is and if he was told by Colm to do whatever it takes to become an inside man then I think he would follow and I doubt he would care about killing people from his own gang especially since the O'Driscolls were all low life scum it was probably expected to happen since the two gangs do fight alot (Blessed are the Meeks) Micah is imprisoned for shooting a guy in strawberry now because of what Lenny says there was micah and two other men he shot one and then shot the other as he was breaking out with Arthur's help he then calls him an O'Driscoll this makes me think that when Micah said to Lenny that he had some business to attend to this was probably him reporting back to the O'Driscolls my guess for what happened is that lenny most likely was walking over to Micah and I'm guessing Micah saw Lenny and panicked quickly killing one of the O'Driscolls before they said some revealing information that they most likely were speaking casually about I mean he's gotta stay undercover no matter what and even Lenny didn't know why Micah killed him and obviously as soon as he got a gun he killed the other guy as he probably would of made Arthur suspect Micah really quickly by acting friendly my guess is that he probably explained to the second guy why he killed the first dude (Blessed are the Peacemakers) This is one is the strongest point to this it's almost like Micah was pulling the strings this entire mission he got Pearson to get Dutch along with his idea while avoiding suspicion that he himself was talking to them (This could easily of been Micah or Colm ordering a few O'Driscolls to meet up with Pearson and ask for a parlay knowing that he wouldn't fight back) Micah also tries really hard to get Dutch to go along with this which makes me think this was Micah's main objective as an inside man to deliver the gang to the Pinkertons like Colm said we even see a bounty poster left at micahs old camp maybe getting excited over the reward on Dutch's head not only that but Micah tells Arthur where to be positioned and then he gets kidnapped a few mins later almost like they knew exactly where he was gonna be. now you could say if that was the case Micah and Colm could of captured Dutch there or then but Colm wanted the whole gang and knew Dutch would bring the gang the get Arthur obviously the only thing that didn't go to plan was Arthur escaping. (Kieran) Honestly this really does explain how he was so easily captured and killed especially since he's around camp most of the time so it'd be pretty hard for O'Driscolls to get to him. He goes missing after jack's party so my guess is while the gang partied Micah probably waited until Kieran was drunk and vulnerable and while everyone was asleep gave him to the O'Driscolls to be tortured (Micah never sleeps for some reason....) But yeah I find it weird how Micah never once interacted with Kieran as him being an O'Driscoll would be a big risk if Micah was also an O'Driscoll especially since he started to betray Colm and help out the Van Der Linde gang I think there's many reasons as to why Kieran didn't recognize Micah • Kieran wasn't that respected in the gang so he probably never met Micah • He joined after micah started being an inside man for Colm • He has met him but forgot and Micah does remember so that could be why he never interacts with him which isn't to hard to believe considering how big the O'Driscoll gang is. (Pinkertons/Colm's Death) Now if we go by what I said about blessed are the Peacemakers Micah would of been slightly affiliated with the Pinkertons through Colm I think Micah realised by chapter 6 that the O'Driscolls were also falling apart so he started to rely on the Pinkertons probably more so after Colm's death my guess is that after Colm died and he hardly had much of a gang to go back to that's when Micah started going on his own path for himself examples of this being increasing his manipulation of Dutch and getting more acertive in the gang transforming into the violent outlaw leader he is in 1907 since Colm was dead Micah no longer had to follow his orders so that could explain the massive shift in chapter 6 also I wonder if cleet and Joe were also O'Driscolls and micah felt so cocky he just brought them in anyway that's my theory explained poorly but yeah it's kinda similar to yours by chapter 6 he's just fending for himself and trying to get the best possible outcome for himself And even his own gang was quite similar to the O'Driscolls with how they did things

[@ThePapazero]

Micah had the vibes of an O'Driscoll

[@maxdeboer2071]

@@Rex-X-Dark thx for info

[@noahbeal4555]

The colm situation is proof that micah is a rat. No one else could have let the odriscolls know where arthur was hiding. If abigail were the only rat, then arthur would have never got caught. I'm sick of all the theories people make to defend micah and push the blame off on abigail or molly. Micah may not have been the only rat, but he certainly is a rat

[@thindon6661]

@@Rex-X-Dark Also if colm told micah to do whatever he could to dismantle the gang. He probably would end up talking to the pinkertons when given the chance

[@The_Ex_Boxing_Nerd]

Not to mention most of their hideouts were on the side of a main road. Beaver’s Hollow was LITERALLY apart of a road. No forrest to go through, no hidden paths. It was on a road which maps had on them.

[@kenneth27205]

They real traitor is Rockstar

[@James-vy5jg]

Why

[@trust3ppa]

@@James-vy5jg cus they abandoned the game

[@S4intp4bl0]

i think the reason the pinkertons appeared during the chapter 4 finale is due to angelo bronte telling the saint denis police department about the gang

[@fishbuckethead]

That too, and this could explain explain why Abigail would also start snitching since he had kidnapped her son and she didnt feel safe there

[@letroll3647]

They already made enough noise in Saint Denis before the bank robbery, killing half of the police in town

[@danteferraro23]

no it was a rat

[@anotherdaytobetheslayer7091]

@@fishbuckethead Impossible in some ways, I do think Abigail managed to escape thanks to Hosea letting himself get captured by the Pinkertons so that she can escape safely back to camp.

[@TheOnlyTaps]

Great video Cat. I think Rockstar purposefully left holes in the story so that we would basically have these theories, like they did with some of the unanswered questions from RDR1. Basically giving us crumbs and letting us create our own conclusions. We see it with the sheer amount of unsolved mysteries this lovely story mode has to offer. So Molly is guilty of the bank robbery leak, then Micah is guilty of the other leaks and then there's probably a few other gang members guilty of other leaks. Genuinely the greatest game ever made and I'll die on that hill. Keep up the great work Cat 👊🏿❤️

[@DJMavis]

And obviously Bill led them to Lakay with his size 22 idiot boots.

[@TheOnlyTaps]

@@DJMavis 💯💯😂 true

[@GlorgangENT]

@@DJMavis when I got back from guarma and got the The slang coded letter from Sadie The whole time I was standing in shady bell like “Who the fuck else had seen this?” Anyone who knew about the gang would’ve obviously knew where to look so it was a team effort in some cases imo

[@RedAngelXV]

The issue with the Molly theory is that Agent Milton had no reason to lie to Arthur in that moment. He was literally about to *kill* Arthur, so there’s no reason for him to try and paint another one of the gang members as the rat. It just wouldn’t make logical sense. The Abigail theory on the other hand might actually make even more sense than Micah. Micah doesn’t really have that much of a motivation to sell out Dutch and the gang, aside from maybe money or legal immunity. But looking back at his massacre in Strawberry, he doesn’t seem like the kind of person to just stop divulging in criminal activity, he’s too impulsive. Abigail’s motivations are much more founded, and her involvement with the Pinkertons may even extend to the original Red Dead Redemption, up until she and her family was ultimately betrayed in the end.

[@ApeX-mh5li]

He would have let sadie or Abigail "slip away" to tell dutch its Micah to Split the gang up Further

[@richardhobbs7360]

@@ApeX-mh5li Yeah, for sure, not like the pinkertons are already going too attack them at beaver hollow or anything, nah, they were planning on letting Sadie and Abigail go

[@ApeX-mh5li]

@@richardhobbs7360 they failed multiple attacks on the gang dont you think they need a reason to Split them Apart?

[@richardhobbs7360]

@@ApeX-mh5li Arthur had like a minute to split them apart, and that was with them escaping earlier than anticipated+ they never attacked with that many men, in the open

[@ApeX-mh5li]

@@richardhobbs7360 at that point milton no longer had control as he was dead so he couldnt lead the pinkertons to attack at the right time, likely being the only one who knew he had set up micah

[@SleyX7]

I think Micah leaked some information when he was caught by the Pinkertons. At the end of the game, in response to "you're a rat", he shouts "I'm a survivor!". Which can suggest that he was only doing what he needed to survive (in the case of catching the Pinkertons, give them information, and once freed, he can continue to follow his interests). In some way, he is even so a traitor, but rather, he is a opportunist. The theory about Abigail is interesting, much more logical than the theory that the rat is John. But still, I tend to think that was as Arthur said: that they made too much noise, acted carelessly and rudely, and "time for folks like us is passed" (This is exactly the idea that is the basis of the plot of the game.) (привет из Киева, Кот))

[@yashmishra4292]

Personally, I agree with the last theory. For the Blackwater fiasco, Arthur and Hosea had different plans as they weren't sure about robbing a boat, filled with Law, but, Micah and Dutch did it anyways, despite knowing it would fail miserably. For the Saint Denis Heist, they killed Bronte, who had great connection as well as killing half the force in Saint Denis while robbing Trolley Station, again, made their present loud and clear. Also, they were so clearly known that o'Driscoll attacked them at Shady Belle, even though, they don't show up in the State of Lemoyne. So, How could Pinkerton been far behind.

[@3teff]

Here's my 2 cents: Micah - he's the sort that always looks out for himself first and foremost and would sell-out his mother to save his own ass. Having said that, in the first half of the game, he clearly believes Dutch can provide him with the path to wealth he so badly wants. Later on, it is quite believable that, once having seen that the gang isn't working anymore, he would look to secure a back-up option... aka a deal with Milton. Molly - yeah, she makes that scene where she admits her betrayal, but if you look at it, she's just a woman in pain, screaming for Dutch's attention. Its all a bluff. She says that because she knows it will hurt Dutch. But in the end, she would do everything to protect him. She's the least to be the traitor in my view. Abigail - everything makes sense with her being the traitor except for one, big, big incident that makes it all completely nonsensical. If Abigail makes a deal with Milton to allow her, Jack and John to walk away, and if indeed Milton spared John already, then why on earth would she kill Milton in a room with only herself, Milton and Arthur, when Milton has Arthur at gun point? Why would she kill the only man who could guarantee her the life she wanted? And in a situation where she could easily let Arthur die and secure her loyalty towards Milton??? Makes absolutely no sense at all... My money would be on Bill, who is one big coward who would easily give in to the least bit of pressure from Milton. Also, there's a small chance that Josiah Trelawny might have worked on both sides. He seems the sort that makes rational, calculated decisions and also he keeps himself more reserved from the gang, but does participate in planning of robberies...

[@Geekezf]

Love i guess. Arthur and Abigail got something together before her Pregnancy. So she didn't want to let him die after all he did.

[@seamuswbiggerarmalite3379]

arthur was her friend the brother of her husband and the uncle of her son thats too much

[@doughboywhine]

I don’t think Bill would cave so easily under pressure. He might let some things slip out of his big mouth, but he wouldn’t cut a deal. Also, no way Trelawny is the rat. Every lead he gave was great and none were set up, on top of the fact that he rarely was at camp long enough to get valuable information for the pinkertons

[@3teff]

@@seamuswbiggerarmalite3379 Yeah, I get that she was close to him, but still, if its a choice between Arthur and Jack, she'd go with Jack every single time...

[@rinzler1801]

Abigail probably stopped collaborating with the Pinkertons at that point because they killed her father figure Hosea, which wasn't part of their deal.

[@rinzler1801]

I believe she may have tried to broker a deal with the Pinkertons before the Lemoyne Bank robbery in order to get John and Jack out but after seeing the consequences of that (her father figure getting killed) she cut off contact with them which angered Milton causing him to capture her at the end. When the Pinkertons lost their first mole they then tried to interrogate Molly O'Shea and when that failed they settled on Micah who presumably planned to lead Dutch into a Pinkerton ambush in the final mission as Arthur so he could slip away with the gang's money. That makes the most sense to me. I can't see her continuing to collaborate with the Pinkertons after Hosea was killed. As for the Blackwater ferry, there was no rat. That was most likely bait to lure in outlaw gangs and Dutch/Micah fell for it.

[@ExtremeMan10]

I agree on one thing, the last one. Police nor agents never set up traps with civilian in it, both sides know it will be dangerous so they would never do this unless all passengers on that boat were somehow cops. Arthur mentions how Dutch killed innocent girl and Micah and rest of the gang killed innocent people in crossfire so that boat was probably some rich folk travelling tour but someone on there had connections so he was protected, similar to Bronte.

[@noakatona4292]

I think it's the third theory. They really didn't needed a rat. But then Milton says It's Micah, still makes sense for him to say that, so he can turn the gang members against each other. He probably knew about the conflict between Arthur and Micah. Anyways, Good one Cat!:)

[@johnpboru]

John and Abigail had plot armour. They had to survive otherwise RDR doesn't exist.

[@mikelitorous5570]

I’ve never really considered how weird it was that John was captured by the pinkertons yet he went to a normal prison and he never mentioned being interrogated like other members of the gang were

[@NeedlesKane916]

Theory 1: I believe she did speak to the Pinkerton's, but not that she went looking for them. They were around st Denis at the time the gang was camped out at shady Belle. While she was out on a bender, she could've ran into them. I believe she didn't give up anything valuable, other than confirming that the gang was close by. That's enough for them to keep searching and eventually finding them. As for her confession in chapter 6, she was clearly distressed and intoxicated, it could've been a bluff. But let's just say she was telling the truth. I believe she gave up the gang's location at the end of chapter 3, hoping that Dutch would be killed in the chaos. Theory 2: the whole fishing trip with Jack could have been a coincidence cuz I don't believe she would put her son's life in danger like that. Even if she knows 100% that Arthur won't kill anybody with jack around, she doesn't know that the pinkertons won't. During the bank robbery I don't see how she would slip out amongst all that chaos but it's possible Hosea could have just told her to run away and don't look back, as he let himself get caught. That is something he would do, but at the same time there was a lot of Pinkerton's around. Any one of them could have chased after her. But the fact that they didn't, kind of suggests that somebody amongst the pinkerton's was protecting her. Now why would they do that? And when you get to John why was he the only one captured alive? That still doesn't explain why Hosea was executed. So I'm with you on the fact, that Hosea wasn't killed for no reason, meaning he learned something he wasn't supposed to. You mentioned she had stolen a key from Dutch before he even planned on leaving John for dead, that's very interesting. That further proves the point that they were looking for a way out and they were willing to do anything to get out of the gang. Even if it meant setting them up to get captured, steal the gang's money, and riding off into the sunset. But that leaves one problem, if she was really working with the Pinkerton's, why didn't she know that they were planning of executing John? Was that all an act on their part? Like you said, Dutch was mad for a reason, when John was rescued. Dutch probably did suspect that John and Abigail had something to do with everything that went wrong. I'ma have to do further thinking on this one. Theory 3: The sad reality is that when you're part of the criminal underworld, getting caught and doing time are guaranteed as much as paying taxes are to a civilian. Dutch was clearly out of his head and not in the right state to be a leader. Due to his erratic and poor decisions, the entire gang ended up paying for it. Since the beginning of chapter 1 Hosea Arthur and a few other people have been telling him that they need to get the hell out of dodge. Simply put, they pushed their luck.

[@makodaniel4885]

She ratted period. She confessed and Milton confirmed it by protecting her (his actual asset)

[@ProfIdiotKuro]

I feel like it's a mixture of a lot of things. I feel like they got sloppy and the Pinkertons got more and more info, some gang members like maybe Abigail were caught and sweated and threatened. I feel like Molly accidentally spilled the beans while drunk in saint denis every now and again. I feel like after Guarma Micah noticed the gang was getting sloppier and became a rat so only a few could survive. Making the gang a LOT smaller, while also making it easier to hide. Etc etc.

[@andrewmarshall9745]

Every job John was involved in caused police to show up, likely because he would discuss them with Abigail. The train job in chapter 2 and 6 and saint denis bank robbery. If John wasn’t involved with a job, they tended to go smoother. Abigail wanted the gang to fall so she could live her normal life with John and jack.

[@mollieminer4742]

honestly i think milton told arthur the truth. i mean, if you think about it, he’d have no reason to lie to him. milton knows he has the upper-hand in the situation: sadie is either knocked out, tied up, or both (i can’t remember), abigail is tied up, and arthur is sick, making it difficult for him to fight back. his obvious plan is to either kill arthur or use him as bait, so there’s no point in lying. why would you lie to someone you’re about to kill? it doesn’t make sense.

[@croyce8685]

I have always thought Abigail was the rat. To save john and to have normal life with john and Jack. She shot Milton before he could say any more. Molly was just trying to hurt dutch by saying what she did. Then there is Micah, he also was a rat. He tried to save even Arthur because of his hidden respect for a great gun fighter. This is all my own theory.

[@geenkaas6380]

If Abigail was a rat why did she shoot Milton? Milton was at that piont trying to kill Arthur

[@Loreweavver]

Abigail is the ‘best’ for story purposes. It even continues in the original game. She may not be a rat in the original but the pinkertons may have been able to use her previous cooperation as leverage to get jack and her captive to use against John.

[@DJMavis]

Oh. I'm looking forward to the final reveal! I do think it's actually just a few errors in the story telling, but I really like the take

[@DJMavis]

Or Rockstar knowing their fans love a good conspiracy did it deliberately and left holes

[@Salty_C.J.]

some evidence Micah turned traitor even earlier than Milton admits is that the Pinkertons find Arthur and jack by the river after freeing Micah from jail in strawberry. that mission to take jack fishing is unlocked by freeing Micah

[@dallas2vabeach]

You might be on to something there, because Micah didn't come back to camp immediately after being busted out of Strawberry.

[@poplops1]

@@dallas2vabeach You can even find Dutch’s wanted poster in Micah’s camp near Strawberry.

[@nightowldickson]

Molly at 1:34 reminds me of Amber Heard arguing with Johnny Depp

[@Zaheer_19]

Lol same😂

[@gordonjamescowiest]

Arthur said it himself in Chapter 6, the gang was clumsy, "More clumsy than the town drunk". Molly was drunk and hurt by Dutch so she lied to get revenge on him, Abigail highly doubtful, just because she was caught by Milton doesn't mean that she talked, she was held hostage as Milton knew Arthur would rescue her. The only person who was a rat was Micah and that was to save himself from punishment by Pinkertons.

[@seamuswbiggerarmalite3379]

nah sure abigail was a rat in the bank score later when arthur and sadie killed half sisika guards theres no more deals

[@DGhost-ki6fd]

Any and everytime a job involved Micah, the law would get on you. In Blackwater, robbing stagecoaches, shooting up Strawberry, and the bank in Saint Denis. The fact he was the only one wearing White and didn't even get hit during the shoot out. They took John alive for the same reason the O'Driscolls took Arthur alive. To try and lure Dutch and the gang on a rescue mission which would lead to arrest and hanging of all the gang members. As far as Abigail escaping unscathed, I mean she is a woman dressed in nice clothes in Saint Denis. Also Hosea always wanted the women and children safe so it's not much of a big jump to say he told Abigail to split off once they got there because he knew it was dangerous. He knew the bank was a risky job and didn't want anymore "innocent" lives taken unnecessarily. But of course that plan didn't work out so well with young Lenny getting shot. In conclusion, Micah was the traitor all along, just a rat "surviving".

[@kstigerlily]

Miss these videos, Master Cat. Such an unparalleled game.

[@wyndlacroix3953]

All very interesting theories Cat!!! Here's my two cents: I truly believe there was more than one "rat" Molly - I started thinking Molly turned on Dutch in Chapter 2....the scene where she's talking to Arthur only to get interrupted by Uncle - She actually mentions to Arthur how Dutch feels about "Loyalty"...if Dutch were to find out she had been talking to the Pinkertons, she would be considered a "Traitor". If you also pay attention to some of the arguments she has with Dutch in Chapter 2 in camp, there is one instance where you can hear Molly tell Dutch "I could do alot more than that" which could possibly imply she may have talked. Sean - He mentions to Arthur during a mission that when the bounty hunters had him captured they beat him, burned his feet and pulled his teeth....IF they had burned his feet, he would have alot of trouble walking and if you look closely at Sean in any close up scenes, he only has one tooth missing. Not to mention, during the train robbery mission with John in Chapter 2, Sean was supposed to be searching the baggage car for valuables and the like. When Arthur walks to the car, Sean is still just standing there and Arthur even asks him "you haven't even looked yet?" Sean had PLENTY of time to have searched the car, but he's just standing there with some of the lawmen. Sean wasn't happy that John and Arthur didn't invite him to go along with them on the mission, so he invited himself. He overheard John talking to Charles about the mission and had plenty of time to rat them out and that could be why the law showed up so quickly. Karen is another possible "Rat" - After she got all the intel for the Valentine bank job, Bill asked her in Chapter 3 at the campfire to give him the details and she plainly told him she wasn't getting cut out after she did all the work. During the mission and after you get back to camp, Bill constantly brags about how HE got the information on the bank and not Karen. Dutch even tells Bill "Good work" and it was Arthur that told Dutch that Karen did a good job getting the information. Bill was given all the credit for the bank when it was Karen that got all the info when she went into town with Uncle, Arthur, Mary Beth and Tilly in Chapter 2. Micah has clearly been a rat since the very beginning of the story. If you pay attention even in Chapter 1 when they're in Colter, Micah is wearing a green bandana tied around his neck....the same as the O'Driscolls. When he meets up with Arthur and Dutch and he leads them to where the O'Driscolls are hiding out at Sadie's house, there are no tracks in the snow so how did he know which direction to go in the snowstorm??? Micah was also the one that set up the meeting with Colm in Chapter 3 when Arthur is taken by Colm and his boys. Both Micah and Dutch give Arthur the exact same excuse as to what happened after Arthur returns to camp. Dutch forced Arthur to rescue Sean from Blackwater when they found out he was taken by bounty hunters, knowing Arthur also had a price on his head. He was also forced by Dutch to break Micah out of the jail in Strawberry. Yet, when Arthur was taken by Colm, he never once sent anyone to look for him after he had clearly been "Missing" for days. This was his "SON" who had been by his side for 20 years yet he never sent anyone to look for him. Not to mention, Dutch said John was also his "son" yet he got angry, called Arthur a "traitor" when he broke John out of Sisika in Chapter 6. There are definitely alot of different theories. These are only a few that my partner and I have thought of since we started playing the story two years ago.

[@grivza]

"If you look closely at Sean in any close up scenes, he only has one tooth missing" static.wikia.nocookie.net/reddeadredemption/images/a/a0/SeanMacGuireBio.jpg, that looks like more than one tooth to me. And about searching the carriage, isn't that because there is a cutscene that is supposed to play? Where he almost gets killed? Let alone those weren't even Pinkertons, just plain Leomoyne deputies. "Standing there with some lawmen" lol miss me with that. "Bill was given all the credit for the bank when it was Karen that got all the info when she went into town with Uncle, Arthur, Mary Beth and Tilly in Chapter 2." How does that even remotely suggest that Karen was a rat? What? Like, she didn't seem to care at all about anything like that. "Micah has clearly been a rat since the very beginning of the story. If you pay attention even in Chapter 1 when they're in Colter, Micah is wearing a green bandana tied around his neck....the same as the O'Driscolls" Oh wow. He was a rat working with the O'Driscolls. "Listen boys,we're going to come here in a few minutes and murder you all, with a couple of friends, okay?" Like what? Odriscolls seemed confused about someone being there to begin with, why would they be if they had contacted Micah before hand? Also none of them seemed to recognize Micah. And if he was indeed a traitor from the beginning, why would they take so long to recognize Dutch, their arch nemesis? Even if Micah had some contacts with them and knew where they were, at the end, he went ahead and killed them, so where does his allegiance stand? Is he trying to get Dutch and the gang to trust him so he can destroy them from within while killing all his old friends in the process? Also, since when does having a connection with the O'Driscolls have anything to do with the Pinkertons showing up? Man, those are not theories, more like fan-fiction. Get it out of here, it gives me a headache.

[@Disappointing925]

Great video man 👍

[@doughboywhine]

Generally there are many instances where the gang could have just been getting sloppy… but the train robbery in particular newspapers claim the law were tipped off about, and it can be done while Micah is still in jail. Blackwater could have been a trap, as Micah falls hook line and sinker any time somebody tries to bait him. Bank robbery could have been deduced from them killing Angelo Bronte, it would not have been that hard to find them at Clemen’s point after what they did there. But generally I don’t think Abigail would have snitched, she definitely would not have endangered her son in such ways and it seemed that she genuinely liked the gang members. Personally, if anyone would be a rat (other than Micah) I think it would be Strauss, he seemed to be a complete sociopath who did not care about anyone but himself and seemed to be solely driven by either self-preservation or monetary gain. I know the newspapers say that the pinkertons picked him up and he was tortured to death after not saying anything, but it’s very possible that the pinkertons lied to the newspapers to make themselves look better, as having a person give up information and then killing them anyways is not a good look. Also, the fact that the pinkertons even really knew who he was is suspicious as they don’t seem to know about the people that aren’t gunmen, such as Mary-Beth and Pearson.

[@chriscormac231]

here's another option, Charles, he's been with them the least barring Micah and was also on the train job

[@beatman6673]

I doubt it was Strauss. He had no reason to snitch until Arthur kicked him out, and by that time, things were going so bad for the gang that I doubt anything he could say would truly hurt them anymore than their own actions already were. It's not like he's a major member of the gang either, as outside of the riverboat job he's really not affiliated with the gang's activities outside his own usury scheme. As for the Pinkerton's knowing him, he's lent money to a presumably large amount of folk all across the states the gang visits, and sent a known member of the gang, Arthur, collecting for him several times (or I guess just a couple times, I heard you can skip some of those missions). It wouldn't be too hard for them to make the connection. Mary-Beth, Pearson, and the other non-gunmen seldom go into town if ever, but Strauss absolutely does, and by presenting himself as an honest loaner and using his real name, he's no doubt gonna be noticed.

[@dr.skulhamr3220]

Nicely thought out my friend. Great video!

[@DJMavis]

Abigail is the most likely, and that got them John. She wanted to be out of that life and they said it would happen. And it sort of did. But she cut and ran and they tracked her down again

[@3teff]

Except for the fact that its weird how Abigail would kill the man who literally would have guaranteed her safety in return for her information: Milton.

[@mrmanhimself3337]

​@@3teff I imagine it's because she valued Arthur's life over Milton's

[@DJMavis]

@@3teff was that before John came back to camp?

[@Originalchili]

@@mrmanhimself3337 doesn't her ratting directly put Arthur's life in danger though?

[@mrmanhimself3337]

@@Originalchili Arthur's life and her life are in danger by staying in Dutches gang regardless. She doesnt want to rat the gang out, she feels like she has to, If she can save Arthur while doing it she might choose to(assuming she was the rat)

[@edoardodallavalle3098]

i’d love a game where you play as micah before he met the gang only to find out he worked as a special agent with the pinkertons and went undercover to try and arrest dutch van der linde. A donnie brasco-like story would be fun

[@Poke-ladd]

I recall after Guarma we have some of the gang make remarks towards Arthur and I think Bill says that Micah is kind of Asking Arthur about his loyalty to the gang, spreading doubt in within the group, maybe because after that experience of nearly dying he wanted to rise above the second in command which was Arthur

[@tuxninja7]

Random theory for Molly - when she stops to talk to Arthur about loyalty perhaps she has already talked to the pinkertons about blackwater perhaps or something else, and she worried Dutch is off because she is paranoid he would suspect her of saying something and has been off since blackwater - she is destroying herself with her own guilt to the point where she is drunk and admits what she did. Side Theory: molly didn’t actually give anything of use too agent Milton, just some ramblings about the gang since she wasn’t really very involved - and so when Arthur meets Milton he says “she didn’t speak” or, didn’t say anything useful to them. However in Mollys mind she had ratted on them and felt awful because of it - which leads into the main theory

[@rodolfo9876a]

Makes Some Sense..

[@cocob0l0]

I always assumed Hosea sacrificed himself and allowed enough time for Abigail to escape when they were caught. They were very close, essentially being father-daughter figures to one another. There’s no way that he wouldn’t have done whatever he could to ensure she her safety.

[@sic5168]

Jack…. Kids say all sorts, comfort in captivity and he probably heard more than anyone in camp

[@kahlbutomacfarland]

You are 100% correct on your explanation at the end. I mean, it’s the point of the story, lol. BUT, I disagree about Micah not being a rat. The biggest piece of evidence for Micah being the rat imho, is in the end credits. The Pinkertons find Micah in the literal middle of nowhere very soon after he dies, how/why? If he is a cooperator, he would have communicated that he was about to meet back up with Dutch. The Pinkertons show up and find Micah dead because they were there to get Dutch based on Micah’s info. Also, in the time between ch6 and the epilogue m, based on the papers, Micah was seemingly able to operate as an outlaw without worry of being caught, while Dutch was in hiding. If Micah was an informant all this time, this would explain his protection. Micah being a rat also leads to a very interesting possibility . If he was a rat in Ch6, this would mean the Pinkertons were complicit in Cornwall’s murder. Given Cornwall’s treatment of them and more importantly the fact that shortly after this the agency would stop being a private for hire agency and ascend to a government sponsored one (the FBI), this benefits the Pinks in the long run. Cornwall’s murder could have been a major political chip to help sell them becoming a necessary government agency. By the time of RDR1, they are firmly the FBI. Just a thought I don’t hear people bring up and my primary reason for believing Micah was a cooperator. Besides, Micah didn’t avoid the law for over a decade based on cunning or restraint now did he, lol?

[@PVPCat]

Sadie found Micah, why would You think it was impossible for agents to find him the same way? A lot of Strawberry locals saw and heard how they were interrogated Micah's gang member

[@chevalierdunord3732]

Micah had about 100 guys on that mountain, with even less loyalty than Dutch's crew

[@kahlbutomacfarland]

@@PVPCat not impossible, just unlikely. Again, he operated with impunity for all that time gives me red flags. And if I really wanted to read into it, the agents seem almost distraught when they find Micah. Imo this is why they move on to John in RDR1, their next meal ticket. Different motivations to get John to work for them, same outcome in their eyes though. It’s a little bit like The Departed imo.

[@kahlbutomacfarland]

@@PVPCat if I’m being brutally honest, I don’t think a concrete answer was intended nor the goal of the writers. It was left intentionally ambiguous, or wasn’t a concern. Rdr is a fantastic character storyline, it can be weak in the plot under scrutiny. Which suspension of disbelief is necessary given the medium. A great narrative example of this is when the Pinks catch Arthur and Jack by the river, probably less than 100 yards from camp and Arthur goes right back to camp and the Pinks can’t follow him, lol. I mean, you can probably see Pearson’s stew smoke from the river. So grains of salt are needed all over the place.

[@kahlbutomacfarland]

@@chevalierdunord3732 and the Pinks couldn’t catch him for over a decade? Lol. Feels like you’re making my point.

[@J.O.222]

Maybe Abigail is the traitor and maybe she admits it to jack sometime after John dies. Abigail died soon after John, maybe from guilt or suicide? She caused most of the bad situations including the death of her husband, in the end. It would make the scene of jack over her grave even more sad, him thinking of what she did.

[@maximum_mueller9922]

The Traitor was Gavin.

[@DJMavis]

All the torture led to suppressed memories from the trauma and he doesn't remember it

[@bigmozzy]

Brilliant video, I’ve been saying this for years. The game alludes to the fact micah could be the rat but if you read between the lines you see theres no hard evidence its him, apart from the words of a pinkerton who could be trying to create problems in the ranks anyway. Micah’s a deranged murdering bank robber who’s been sprung out of a cell in a violent shootout, obviously his acts are going to be high profile. From your first few missions alongside micah he’s constantly trying to convince arthur to trim the fat in the gang and stop carrying all the civilians around with them so that the gang is exclusively made up of people who will fight to stay free - this alone shows he’s not trying to help the pinkertons and recognised Arthur’s ability to kill and rob and sees him as a worthy asset to the gang. The whole point of the storyline is to create distrust, these people are the worst of the worst in societies eyes the last of the true outlaws and this is all reflected in the characters dialogue. If you know anything about gangster movies and criminal plots you’d know that things develop with the story. A criminal wouldn’t join a gang in an effort to take it down especially when he’s the most prolific killer in the group why would the pinkertons want to help him in the end, that would be stupid. Its far more likely that the authorities back then would operate just like the feds do now- they would target the weak links in the group like the women or civilian men. And they would have many opportunities to do so as those characters are the ones who travel into towns for supplies and live a more normal existence than the gunslingers (hence the plot of rdr1 FBI targeting John). There are two main ways to play the game due to the honour system and if you play both ways you see how Arthur’s character differs. Its sad that considering how popular the game is, nobody notices that it’s actually John’s lack of commitment to the life (mainly because he feels like a bully victim because everyone in camps slept with his wife and he doesn’t know who’s actually Jack’s father) and Arthur’s sympathy for John (mainly because he feels bad for shagging Abigail when John was away and also the feeling that he could too be Jack’s father and wanting a better life for the boy). This is what actually caused the downfall of the gang because they were going against the grain and questioning everything Dutch planned towards the end of the game. When the reality of the situation was that Dutch was making extreme choices because he was still trying to care for everyone in the group. And let’s be honest after Arthur gets killed and John runs off with Abigail, Dutch and the actual ride or die members of the gang use Micah’s original idea of trimming the fat and they go on to further evade capture for another 8 YEARS!! Yes the game paints Micah as the bad guy, but the point is they’re all the bad guys- they’re the most wanted gang in the country, and in groups and times like that nothing is certain and distrust would of been everywhere and that’s what the narrative is capitalising on.

[@jam3sram9ag3]

So I just finished a high honor playthrough. And I noticed a few things. I don't think Micha was the rat. Hear me out on this. Micha basically became the "golden boy" and right hand of Dutch. Every time you see him, he's with Dutch or at camp. He comes up with plans to rob stages or on the road. Very impulsive. But I don't think he would put DUTCH in danger. Actually it was Bill. He came up with the valentine bank job. He keeps failing with explosives. He constantly is drunk or picks fights. Twice he was THE LAST to return to camp. Even stated he was looking for the gang after the storm and was asking around. Also was the first to DEFEND Micha, when the whole camp hated him. As big of ass as Micha is, he's loyal to Dutch. Bill on the other hand. It fits

[@beatman6673]

I think Bill's just that stupid

[@luxborealis]

This fits nicely with the theory Bill is a secret genius who masterminded the entire plot of the game.

[@psycholaw4394]

What about Uncle? Ain't no way someone survive lumbago for this long, especially a man of his age

[@taylorgriffith1064]

there's literally a rat that spawns when you kill Micah, what else do you need? did you all play the same game I did?

[@uyuyyhgghh8542]

I think the realistic option that makes the most sense is what the game says itself. There was no rat until after Guarma, when Micah started speaking (I do believe he did some sabotage to the gang beforehand, like the Blackwater job, but didn't talk until Chapter 6)

[@jimmyfrench4722]

As for Molly, I’ve seen enough girls who follow feelings of being spurned by their lover with excessive alcohol then saying anything and everything to hurt the one they feel spurned them to believe that is what she was doing…trying to hurt him by the attacking the one thing he loved, his attempts at getting money/having a gang to help him get money, oblivious to repercussions from Dutch or anyone else. I agree with the evidence pointing to Abigail, who likely saw getting the gang captured/killed would be the best way to get John all to her & Jack. I believe Abigail & Micah were rats, but, as noted, with or without the rats, their time was very limited.

[@birdsteak9267]

Scorned women also tend to snitch, or overly-exaggerate sitting at a bar for attention and sympathy, she might not have snitched to the Pinkertons but while being drunk, she spilled the beans to much at the bar. Not saying she did, but it's usually how being drunk can lead to peoples downfall.

[@nameman7936]

The Pinkerton's knew about the bank robbery in Saint Denis because they killed bronte, so they would've known something big was coming up. We also see they aren't there immediately since they dont know exactly where it would be

[@tanner6184]

Cat, just because Micah diddnt rat before Guarma , doesn’t mean he’s “not a rat”… he clearly Ratted after Guarma . You can’t say Micah is “Not a Rat”.

[@PVPCat]

The thing is: after Guarma everything went pretty smooth for the gang. Except episode in Lakay but there are other ways how Pinkertons could have found it (letter, following Bill, Molly)

[@ratm1966]

Milton said they got Micah when he got off the boat from Guarma. At that time, there is no way he knew where the gang was. He would have to have had time to go to the old hide out to get the info or use whatever method the gang had in place. Even Aurthur had to go to Shady Belle to look for clues.

[@AyanT138]

I think it was a combination of the gang getting sloppy and Dutch becoming selfish that led to their downfall. If there was a rat (in my opinion micah) then all they did was be the straw that broke the camel's back

[@LuckyXCX]

If Abigail was really the rat, I think her and Jack would’ve been gone earlier in game like after chapter 3 when he’s kidnapped. Also wouldn’t Milton have thrown it in Arthur’s face when he came to her rescue like “hey you came to rescue a traitor of your own gang, pathetic”

[@polymorphing9195]

Great video Cat, the Abigail theory actually makes a lot of sense but that doesnt mean it was all her fault. The gang indeed went too far trusting Dutch's "plan"

[@PVPCat]

Abigail makes a lot of sense, but no real proofs :)

[@philipcronvall8900]

Agree

[@ra1d9r55]

Molly isn't the rat not only because Milton said so, but because she was just trying to get Dutch's attention using ANY way possible (or just to escalate the argument lol), especially considering she was drunk, and the phrase "Shoot me" only proves it. Abigail for some reason knows about the chest with gang's money, for some reason stole the key to it, also the reasons in this video. John didn't have to know she's a rat, it was enough for her to just tell the pinkertons to not kill him. Also, Micah could be talking before Guarma to someone else, like the government, in his camp you can find Dutch's wanted poster, if he was talking to for example the sheriff, pinkertons could have just got the information from that sheriff, they didn't have to know how the sheriff got information, also it is confirmed that Micah is the rat by Rockstar.

[@Nine9005]

I personally believe in the third theory.

[@misterimposterroot4060]

You know this is actually really good enjoyed both vids

[@johno6475]

Detective Cat is on the case!!

[@PVPCat]

InvestiGator!

[@theearthrexden]

Abigail doesn’t even suggest fishing to Jack, she just asks Arthur to do something with Jack.

[@rawrjay420]

i think it was abigail. micah missed opportunities to legitimately screw over the gang or kill dutch, whereas abigail not only had the motivation, but also the mysterious alibis to go along with them. her family are the only ones who walked away relatively unscathed besides tilly and others like her, but they werent big time members to begin with.

[@ratskin1782]

Another really well made video. The simplest answer is usually the best.

[@bodesea8586]

Thank you for actually presenting a theory about Abigail. It’s the one I always believed but no one even thinks about it because of how close our relationship with Abigail is as the player

[@joshuaking3731]

It could be all of the above. Million had no reason to lie to Arthur at the end. It makes sense that Micha was a rat, but only after Guarma. Abigail could have tipped off the Pinkertons before the bank heist to protect Jack and John. Moly would fall into the same category as Bill. Doing a lot of talking in town and simply being shadowed by Pinkertons. Dutch was losing it. I could see a lot of gang members being the traitor.

[@DrixPunk]

i prefer the 3rd, i mean c'mon you have idiots like Micah Bill and Sean within the gang, hell the pinkertons could've just given the gang members a few drinks at a bar and they'd yap about how each bank robbery is going to work, its also obvious that Micah and Molly started talking at some point but when you're the van der linde gang eventually someone is going to say something even if they meant to or not

[@adolfogarzachaires394]

theres a theory that suggest Micah was the rat all along since the start of the game he was the rat, but didn't rat the gang with the pinkertons themselves, but with Colm O'driscoll, and then Colm told the pinkertons what Micah told him, but after the events of guarma, Colm gets captured, and now that explains why agent Milton says Micah told them everything only after the events of guarma, and since Colm was captured, now agent Milton speaked directly to the guy that gave the info to Colm, which was Micah

[@micahbell9686]

See guys? Not my fault

[@stephencraig2994]

It makes sense. It was John and Abigail. They took John alive to jail and Abigail got away, but Hosea got caught.

[@JustarLad]

Bro the Abigail theory makes so much sense. Maybe there were multiple rats and they were just in innocent positions. Whoever it is rdr2 is one of the best games I have ever played.

[@HEE_HEE__]

A little detail is when the Pinkerton's are walking away from Arthur at the river he goes for his gun but doesn't draw since Jack is there.

[@hazardau9076]

Hey cat I tried to ask this on your stream yesterday what do you think of the live of code referring to a new mission that got added in the latest patch?

[@BenMyattt]

Idk about Blackwater but they were making a lot of noise in Saint Denis (Trolly Station) it was pretty obvious we were there.

[@High-Tech-Geek]

Interesting Cat! I like all these theories.

[@jessecollin4486]

“I’m a survivor. Stick with me and you’ll live” -Micah-

[@jackmills7758]

The Callander brothers might play a part in the downfall of the gang. Pinkertons know who the Callander brothers are so that means the brothers had pinkertons following their trail which leads to the gang, which makes the situation a lot worse for the gang. Milton knows about Arthur, Hosea, Dutch, mac and davey, but nobody else, which I find curious.

[@baileybadass2235]

Wow I really like your analysis with the theory

[@samfeels]

Molly: Arthur How is D O T C H

[@ShadowFanQuills3]

6:24 Agent Milton: TELL US ABOUT DUTCH AND HIS GANG. Molly: NO. Agent Milton: Ok. Me: LMAO

[@Co1tsbomb]

When agent Milton took off his hat i literally let out a scream of terror

[@pavan923]

Just to put into detail just how much noise the gang was making, replay RDR2 story mode and pay attention to all details regarding noise in the game.

[@braize6279]

Honestly the entire time I was playing, for most part I just figured it was because the gang got both sloppy and loud. Arthur said it best. Times change, and people don't want them no more. It wasn't until Milton drops the Micah bomb that I even really considered Micah to be a rat. Even after, I still didn't really believe it. Micah only cared about the Blackwater money. He had plenty of opportunities to turn in the gang, especially to turn in Dutch. Never did it ever happen. It was pretty clear in Rhodes after that shit show, that the gang wasn't near as discreet as they thought they were. Take an agency such as the Pinkertons, and it's not exactly difficult to track the gang down.

[@Alexander-ot2nf]

Abigail Knew Arthur was the pillar who was holding the gang together. So she made Arthur to go fishing with Jack where Pinkerton agent tried to Offer him immunity as an exchange for Dutch Van der linde. Which He refused. My point is Abigail set the up the meeting with pinkerton agent by sending Arthur alone in the fishing spot so Pinkerton try to buy him off like he already did to abigail.

[@_vindicator_]

Micah being the rat is the only way it makes sense that the Pinkertons are not actively hunting him after the end of RDR2. He was one of the worst offenders in the gang, so it would make no sense they let him off if he wasn't feeding them information. But interesting bit is that while Rockstar says he was the rat, according to Milton he only turned after Guarma. And Molly's issues started way before that. It's entirely possible that Molly ratted on the gang indirectly, such as warning the police in Saint Denis or giving up Abigail and Hosea out of jealousy. She may not have helped the Pinkertons, like she claims, but that doesn't mean she was innocent. Her outburst at the end could be a combination of jealousy and also guilt.

[@andresalvarez5415]

I buy into the last theory the most. Personally I think it was in chapter 3 that really sealed the gang’s fate. The entire point of hiding in the south was to throw them off but almost immediately the gang becomes too visible. Two of the people involved in the shootout in Valentine become public figures and Arthur is too heavily involved in the dealings with the rival families along with notable overlap from other members (Sean and Bill were very visible participants in this chapter). The end result was the shootout in Rhodes and the Pinkertons being able to pinpoint their exact location instead of their general location. From there it was basically just them being driven further south and further east.

[@dallas2vabeach]

Damn good theories, but I always leaned toward no true rat myself. I think they made way too much noise especially in St Denis when they raided Bronte's house. Even John made a statement during the bank robbery " You never should've gone after Bronte Dutch!"

[@handsinthefire]

It's Micah. The Villain monologue concept is never wrong. Milton goes full on about his plan, and everything involved because he had all of the power in that situation...or he thought he did until he got shot. When the "villain" begins a monologue it's because he believes he has all of the power and that nothing bad will happen to him, so he spills everything, and then something bad normally happens and he dies...this is a common trope. Micah did it, Molly is innocent, and Abigail is cleared as well. Ya'll need to stop searching for ghosts in shadows when there aren't any.

[@dirkdorner701]

I think it is all four. 1. The gang made too much noise, 2. Abigail probably did some "ratting" to help Jack and John and 3. Molly might have done some ratting as well. Not sure about Molly and the bank robbery, I think that goes to Abigail. 4. Micha later probably also talked. I think it is a little bit of all and that to me makes most sense.

[@jamesa.7604]

I can fully see Abgail Roberts-Marstan being the rat. Her slipping away during the San Denis robbery as well as her being taken alive at the camp. That was indeed a ploy to catch Dutch and the Gang if they tried to save her. You laid out a very good case. Also there could have been more than one rat. Remember when Lenny came back to camp to let them know Micah had been locked up in Strawberry. He said they wanted to hang him but he got away," Just About." What did that mean? Did the Pinkertons Intervene in his hanging and had him give information as well? As for his death in San Denis, that was just an unfortunate means to an end for the Pinkertons to get out of whatever he was promised.

[@emmarosehurt]

Nobody ever suspects Pearson, but I kind of do! He’s doing pretty well for himself by the end of the game.

[@robertmartin7961]

The fact that Abigail was the sole survivor of the gang towards the end (and jack if you count him) I can totally see it being her (you never kill the golden goose)

[@Celisar1]

Logic isn’t your strong suit, right?

[@kaiser.carbone]

For the Saint denis bank hiest, The Pinkertons already knew due to the VERY LOUD, and failure of a trolley hiest that happenned, they suspected the bank.

[@tickab_kitsune]

The real traitors were the friends we made along the way

[@chomosuque]

9:01 why would Abigail risk puting her son in danger though? Especially when she flat out left John because he got Jack involved in a shootout during the epilogue? Wouldn't it make more sense that the pinkertons already knew where they were? That they had an agent staked out to watch their movements? Hence explaining how they got this opportunity to talk to Arthur. 9:44 the gang didn't account for pinkerton presense. What foiled this heist is the noise that the stupid revenge bs that dutch pulled off. Bronte - a prominent man in saint denis - was attacked in his own home and killed which then triggered the need for pinkertons in the area. And this thing about John and Abigail slipping and living when everyone around them were dying? They have plot armor, they need to be alive for the events of rdr 1 XD. Kidding aside, if hosea did know something. Milton wouldve covered his mouth to stop him from shouting out any info he had but he didn't. Plus, wouldn't it help them better if they had two hostages? In chapter 6, If abigail was indeed the rat I doubt she'd leave her son in the hands of a gang thats concurrently in the middle of a fire fight. Besides, If she was indeed striking a deal with Milton why didn't she give him the key to their stash? Why give it to arthur instead? And, obviously, why did she shoot Milton then? About the gang making too much noise as well. Wasn't it micahs infos and instigations that led to the planning and execution of the robbery, raids, and cornwalls death in chapter 6? Dont you find it weird that Micah didn't seem to care much about noise then.

[@jessecollin4486]

The way Micah took the time to fight Arthur in the end? He definitely wanted him silenced

[@obiwanshinobi87]

To be fair as Dutch's lover Molly would be the first to notice a change in Dutch... it could go either way... She could have told on them to get back to Dutch but at the same time she could have lied simply just to make him mad.. especially considering she also drunk and hurt simply to get his attention somehow... and at the time Milton lying doesn't make sense.. in his eyes he already was holding all the cards... I still feel Micah was the rat

[@clixstopmotion3729]

Milton had no reason to lie to Arthur, he believed he was going to kill Arthur there and take the women. He figured he would tell Arthur the truth since he was going to win. Micah was the rat.

[@TheCheats4you]

It's a combination. Not just one or the other. And that's what made everyone betray each other. Abigail must have had some ratting she did. Maybe because she is a female, they did not kill her. Maybe Molly is known as a rich folk and damn near can't be touched because family ties? That one idk. But definitely bill talking to everyone did not help. Dutch killing the biggest people all in one chapter pretty much, also did not help. So many things of course made Dutch crazy. Made a lot of mistakes. Jeez I love this game.