The Reason I Hate Vtuber and Idol Fans

[@fmm56301]

The no dating clauses have always been super weird to me, I think the problem is that these terrible crazy fans are profitable so a lot of the companies want to encourage that behavior... to the detriment of the idol who is a literal human being. Kudos to you for posting about it, because as a fellow anime lover I've also seen SO MUCH toxicity from "fans". T-T

[@Momoko524]

Yeah. I think I remember that a lot of companies in Japan actually ban their idols from dating cuz they know they'll lose a lot of money if people see them taken 😢 It's really sad.

[@Otoshi_Gami]

i mean they been doing this for over 3 DECADES and this is nothing new. its just people just turn a blind Eye and be Complicit to all this Toxic NO DATING Culture as its their NORM. it all comes down to PROFIT to all Idol Companies and they Encourage that behavior in the name of PROFIT. when People in Japan are gonna change? who knows but time will only tell then things have gone too far.

[@codekaizerin30]

That is messed up to be fair.

[@edwardt.8704]

While I only have a passing interest in kpop and idol groups solely for the music, I do indeed enjoy watching vtubers. However, I am largely a viewer of independent creators because I have been aware of these corporate restrictions since getting to know about the industry--largely due to media like Perfect Blue. It is sad because while I would prefer the platform to be a place where the person gets to have fun and express their interests with others, I am aware that fellow viewers do not share this hope. It's gotten to a point where I am relieved when someone "Graduates", because that means they are distancing themselves from harmful interactions.

[@jackg6887]

@@edwardt.8704 Sadly those restrictions are there just because they're a large company and under much bigger risk of being noticed and targeted for being sued. Obviously has some benefits too, basically the same as signing with a record label or being an independant band. Sure the small indie band can get away with singing cover songs to 200 people. But soon as thats 2,000,000 million people it gets risky. Also don't think indies are safe from harmful interactions just because they're indie. Hell for some indies that might mean they have no one to go to to talk about any harmful interactions

[@Peajay007]

It’s like a form of narcissism. The fan can date whoever they want but their idols have to stay single so they can live in the de lu Lu world where they still have a chance

[@jackmesrel4933]

Let's be real here, most toxic fans will never touch a man/woman in their lives, otherwise they wouldn't latch into a parasocial relationship so strongly

[@brittm1960]

It's so sad tbh. The idol industry is so fucking dark and unfair. It's so unethical and the people becoming idols have to give up so much of what is human and normal.

[@SuitedSkaterLion]

Is not just Japan, is everywhere that peoples act this bad toward famouse peoples. I'm not even famous and i'm being treated very bad by peoples around me, i mean i wish atleast they would be my "fans" lol, but they are just haters that doesn't even know me.

[@ACKRYL]

I don't think it's narcissism, but the exact opposite. Simply put, being just severely obsessive and delusional because they want to be with someone or want to be like someone, because they don't like themselves. Believe me, I know my way around narcissism, and one thing that contradicts them being a narcissist, is purely their own self-image.

[@BTSIPURPLEYOU-zi4mk]

@@brittm1960BTS is normal tho

[@QuinnBenet]

Good video! I think parasocialism often is fed by the companies that market the idols/vtubers as well. Both ends suffer, the fans who fall into the marketing & the idols who feel pressure to match the marketing standard. I think this can even happen with normal twitch streamers too, since people often watch them for hours, the lines can get blurred for some viewers.

[@jasminedeguzman4937]

As a watcher, Love watching your videos from past lives with your fellow friends. Don't worry, there are a lot of sensible fans and viewers who appreciate the work you all planned and put in a lot of effort to do so. That is a great talent you all have and be proud of it. Enjoy your private life without being restricted or dictated to by others because we only live once. P.S. Don't worry some of us are working adults so we can relate if the management is toxic just leave. That is why we share our working experience with teenagers and kids regarding working in a TOXIC environment. I know it is scary to see what is next chapter of your life especially since you're an adult now. Don't worry all of us experience the What's Next. Enjoy the process and appreciate Life every day as if it is our last. Don't put your life in a Box same goes with your other fellow Vtubers. Highly respected for your craft, and God bless.

[@evapunk522]

Quinn!!! Funny seeing you here bro! 🤣🤣

[@Mordred14394]

​@@evapunk522 same reaction 😂

[@jamesvalkyrie7469]

Nice to see you Quinn! Yeah, some fans just take it way too far. Heck, I would even add fans of video game characters in here because some of them go crazy. 😂

[@tsunderekuudere1532]

Good to see you here!!

[@Rosavatar]

Hearing about Aya Hirano was so upsetting and disappointing.She's well known for her voice role as Lucy Heartfilia from Fairy Tail, but she's talked about potentially not returning to voice her in the 100 year quest and actually has decided to stop voice acting due to all the stuff happening with her fans. However, i believe she's said she will voice only Lucy in the 100YQ, but its still insane that her "fans" played such a big role in her career decisions.

[@robertnatera3178]

That’s makes me sad she’s was one of my favorite VA

[@hk20000]

Aya Hirano was known to have slept with everyone in her band though. So that's kinda outlandish.

[@Rosavatar]

@hk20000 I mean, it's her choice at the end of the day. So long as all parties consented. Just weird how much people care about their internal lives typically, but I also don't have all the details on why it happened.

[@hk20000]

@@Rosavatar or why it became public. It didn't have to be, and she probably thought it wouldn't have been. I mean even if you are a regular artist, that's like Diddy level of scandal 😂

[@djwizzle067]

Lets not forget about that one kpop idol who got hate and harassment and was DEMANDED to make an apology because he read Made in Abyss.

[@FilianAfterHours]

Fr, Made in Abyss is actually a good series too

[@zearcjustice7837]

''It''S pEDoPhile'' , said some of the people

[@micahlazo8011]

It unfortunately wasn't just one. Other idols got involved too and it was really blown out of proportion. The way it went is why sometimes I would rather gatekeep anime and manga because when people see things without context (and especially if they don't regularly watch anime or read manga) they assume the worst.

[@scentedsaint]

It wasn't just one. There were SEVERAL of them getting backlash, some only mentioning it once too, they never said they've read it or smth. It's crazy

[@StrayScouter]

Omg war flashbacks. The insane amount of hate they gave for something they know zero about. The "summary" that went around was just batshit crazy

[@cherrykamino]

It's just still insane for me that some idols/celebrities really have to apologize for finding happiness wth

[@randomquestions566]

They think they are self entitled as if they think they have a special relationship with the vtuber

[@Anticaat]

i remember when Levi's VA from AOT apologizing cuz his fans found out he was married. its such a bizarre era around that time

[@danteshollowedgrounds]

Yeah that's bizarre to me

[@cherrykamino]

@@Anticaat YO THAT, specifically that. It still pisses me off to this day

[@zizixu]

I agree, it’s sad that people think their idol needs to be everything they want them to be. No life, no nothing, just for them as if they own them.

[@rangerknight7438]

You mean like the brony Fandom, I'm being serious I know you're gonna say every Fandom is like that But I do have stories. Stories that will leave you going wtf

[@zizixu]

@@rangerknight7438I don’t even know what the brony fandom is tbf 😭 I never heard of that in all the times I’ve been on the internet 😂

[@zizixu]

But I bet it’s some vile shi 😭

[@THAT1ZELDAFAN]

​@@zizixuBronies are adult fans of My Little Pony Friendship is Magic, typically male, but there are nearly as many female bronies. Joshua Burner (The Fiery Joker) is a brony, as is Saberspark. There's even the Bronies React series from ACRacebest. Yeah, I've watched their stuff, it's funny.

[@ConnerTravis1998]

⁠​⁠@@zizixu wait so you have no idea of the existence of male fans of My Little Pony as that’s where the term Brony comes from (bye the way not all Bronies are toxic fans, some are unfortunately and unfortunately are definitely one of the few communities that get bad rap for that. They are not as bad as idol fans are but it can get heated, but luckily as lot of the good fans are keeping those toxic fans in check especially when they encountered them in real life as you definitely need to see them in action protecting people from the toxic fans)

[@sutorippuwebmaster8783]

Remember, remember, when Vox Akuma's fans screamed at one of his female colleagues who popped in during one of his ASMR streams to ask for help, and Vox had to tell people "You and I are not in a relationship."

[@djwizzle067]

I was about to say "how could she hate vtubers?" until I saw *fans* and i was like "ohh ok that makes sense".

[@KingOfDoma]

Freaking agreed. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic is a great show! Will I touch it with a ten foot pole? No... and you ALL know why...

[@helloimuzumakikira1]

I mean even then, people can love or hate what they want. Just a matter of taste.

[@Momoko524]

​@@KingOfDomaGod those fans have to be some of the worst on the planet. I know exactly what you mean.

[@Plainsburner]

I have a lot of friends that have a great time in vtuber fan communities, there are bad apples everywhere, but there is a lot of enjoyment in celebrating something you love.

[@krampusMstar]

Ive seen a lot of bad vtubers too though

[@MikeyMcFly30]

I am a relatively new fan of KPop, I got into it around 2018-2019, and I gotta agree with your take on Idol culture. I refuse to truly engage with the majority of the fandoms for all the points you brought up. I remember reading a comment on another commentary video about Idol Culture saying something along the lines of "Well, they signed up for this." Hell no. They signed up to make music and chase their creative passions. They did not sign up to be policed and judged by "fans" for trying to live out their best lives.

[@nurinrhemy5260]

i agree

[@galaxy_kitten95]

As a Kpop fan since 2010 and I can safely tell you that the fandom is an entire different beast, and I’m not saying that as a compliment. When I got into it, it was relatively chill. Not to mention, this was a little before the social media and streaming platforms began to bloom. For the past few years, I don’t dip into Kpop as much as I did during my younger days. I only listen to very, very few groups of this current generation. That being said, fans in this day and age like Aki said are incredibly entitled. I also want to say that people are hella sensitive, competitive (like preaching to stream their favorite group’s comeback), get offended real fast, and are just a bliss of ignorance. The amount of times I’ve seen people even defend their favorite idol from something they’ve done and SHOULD be criticized for it, just tune out those who were offended. 😏

[@Momoko524]

​​@@galaxy_kitten95Man the idols getting away with doing actual sometimes borderline criminal things is a whole other can of worms. I also got into K-pop around the same time and agree with everything you said. I stopped following new groups in probably 2017 and honestly don't regret it. Still love the old groups I followed but stay far away from any fandom.

[@Hyvexx]

One of the reasons why I don't get into Kpop was because of how deranged the fans were. Especially at the high of BTS, seeing the absolute carnage they can cause was just too much for me. Even now, too parasocial for me.

[@worstusernameintheworld9871]

ngl, especially with newer groups (based on what I'm noticing), I don't think all of them signed up not knowing that extreme/rabid fans exist, but that doesn't mean they want it

[@RuneToi]

Oh yeah I like vtubers. But I don’t engage with the community 😂.

[@AnimeFan401]

Same

[@Casshly]

same heree

[@______________________-___]

Smart man 😂

[@michaelhall736]

Especially the Nijisanji fans as of late.

[@______________________-___]

@@michaelhall736 true man just watch clips and kareoke and watching in the sidelines on how vtubers dig themselves a whole

[@Kenzsim2024]

As a person who loves kpop like I want nothing more than the idols I like to be happy. I always think that it’s crazy how like company’s tell them not do date and then when the Delulu fans find any way to like think “of these two idols are together how dare they” or when idols do announce they are dating married or what have you and the “fans” lose their minds is insane. Like let them be happy man.

[@Dinoslay]

IMO idols offer entertainment as a form of supply to a demand. Think of them as sellers of flavor. Audiences might be seeking distraction as a counterweight to their stressful lives. Some of them are drained by lack of social nutrition and see entertainers as a way to get their minds off things. It’s just how a number of them grow infatuated to the make believe that leaves a lot to be desired irl. It also easily enables exploitation. We’ve seen enough examples of that getting out of hand. It helps no one. Ultimately each one of us is responsible for how they choose to live. As appealing and inspiring as it can be, fiction alone won’t help fix our lives.

[@Hayatihowru]

TRUE

[@bulmasman]

I've been deep into jpop idol culture for almost 20 years at this point. I never understood the level of entitlement I've seen from the fanbase both in Japan and the wider world. Even when i was 100% focused on my "oshi" i still never felt anything close to that entitlement. I do think a huge amount of the blame rests on the shoulders of the conpanies pushing them though. As a counter to the usual, 2 members of Momoiro Clover Z, one of the biggest idol groups going, have gotten married in the last 2 years. There seems to have been little to no backlash from the fanbase but at the same time momoclo have never been marketed in the usual idol way. Still, as much as Aki spoke pure facts in this video it does make me sad that 99% of jpop idol coverage, even the more professional documentaries,just tend to focus on the negative side of the industry and rarely highlight the nicer stories.

[@fmjacket6390]

I agree with you. I want nothing but positivity for my favorite members. Glad I listened to Aki's explanation instead of taking the title of the video literally.

[@hatootranslator4134]

yeah bro, i think the idol culture right now is becoming more better than past. Now i can see many time when the idol or streamer said that they are your friend or something to become more parasocial, many of the fan said they are not your friend and just a fan. We also have great example like Inuyama sensei marry that i really don't find any parasocial comment. All of them just congrat to her.

[@TheCCBoi]

How can people be surprised when an attractive, rich and successful person is attached. I would be shocked if they WEREN’T dating someone!

[@computernerd8157]

Same lol.

[@BadCompanyGaming]

I'd tell these simps "touch grass, they are better looking girls that you have better chances with". Like seriously these guys are whining over one out of a billion women in this planet.

[@amdiary7]

Makes more sense for them not to date tho. The family life must be horrible. Imagine having a partner you can never see. Doesn’t seem very stable to me so I’m not surprised when a celebrity is single.

[@KozyFaerie]

People are getting weirder and weirder these days. The entitlement is insane.

[@Dinoslay]

It is uncannily childish.

[@Riu-bw4bl]

Sadly I would say with idols in Japan this has been a issue for a long while now not just now days. But I do agree it seems to be getting worse

[@KozyFaerie]

oh yes absolutely@@Riu-bw4bl

[@Hayatihowru]

FR

[@Kossa-Odessa]

Kpop, Vtubers, J-idols, I’m not into any of them. But god, I often feel like I respect and appreciate them more than their own fans and management! The way people treat these OTHER PEOPLE is insane! Some of those ‘fans’ are legitimately unhinged. Harming their idol, sending inappropriate things to their idol (INCLUDING PERIOD BLOOD APPARENTLY), stalking them, demanding them to be only an idol and not a human being. All that stuff is so horrifying to me.

[@realbiggestlegofanconnor7007]

Yeah like nijisanji seeing their talents NOT as humans but as money making slaves for them

[@KishyTheFishy52]

But there are positives to some VTuber agencies that care about the content creators like Hololive, VShojo and Phase Connect. So just want to say there are positives but people focused on the negatives especially Nijisanji which they deserve it

[@realbiggestlegofanconnor7007]

@@KishyTheFishy52 well those are exceptions

[@THAT1ZELDAFAN]

​@@KishyTheFishy52Hololive has had issues though, it thankfully they've learned from it. VShojo does seem to be the best agency in terms of looking after the creator, but giving them freedom to do whatever for what I know. I mean, Projekt Melody has her "exercise" content, and VShojo lets her without any fuss. Can't see any other agency allowing that

[@horimo8920]

Excuse me, period blood? What the fuck?

[@BloodyMadAlice]

One instance is when Chen from EXO announced he's happily married with children and fans got so mad they wanted him to leave the group and not support them with him still in it. Even ppl who used to like him would destroy his photocards or anything related to him. It's just so insane. Like it's not like anything changed with the music. Some people argued that they were lied to. I call bullshit.

[@lololollololol629]

The same thing happened with a weather girl for a weather show in japan.. The company's stocks fell and people were saying she lied to them all because she was in a relationship.. These people are insane lol...

[@dalgona4819]

@@lololollololol629 Bruh she isn't even an idol T^T wth Japan

[@marie-camilleschaap2708]

A truth they made up themselves. You can't call that love if they don't consider the idols' feelings themselves.

[@buttert0azt]

I have the same thoughts, I like a lot of stuff music, anime, manga, manhwa, vtubers, cosplay, etc... But I never tried to join the community because of this. I cannot comprehend how they can't distinguish what's toxic behavior towards them. They are normal people too but the difference is they're famous. The self-awareness is suddenly not available towards them. You're free to be obsessed with the things you like but know the boundaries. What's the most mind boggling is they like them for so loooong until something mild happens and them bully them to the point of the famous person unaliving.

[@peeparoni]

I'm not apart of idols of any kind of that culture but j do agree it CRAZY how far super fans will go just bc there fav idol is in a happy relationship...😭 I've always found it so werid when I've seen posts and tweets about fan like "omg my fav idol is taken this is sooooo unfair😢😢😭💔"

[@computernerd8157]

Just mad that their fav idol did not choose them. Very disturbing, but with the lack of connection to reality, I am not surprised people are becoming like this. We all just need to touch grass every now and then and have a stronger desire to make our real lives better then the one we have in the matrix.

[@raixhatv6666]

This video is like someone borrowed my mind and laid it bare. Aki is my soul brother confirmed.

[@psychedelicpunk5031]

We arent all like that but there does seem to be many many people are seriously mentally unhinged and need some checking in on and need to step away from the internet for abit

[@rangerknight7438]

The bad part is that ones that are actually disciplined enough and respect the content. Creators get tied with the crazies and That breaks my heart

[@PyraXadon]

I think with all things, there’s a line that shouldn’t be crossed, and the ones that jump over that line get the most attention. I don’t blame any ‘idol’ that feels the need to protect themselves because in this line of work, that needs to be prioritized above all else. But it sucks to get a bad rap when it’s only the vocal crazies that get the attention, while the mostly quiet majority takes the fall for simply enjoying a hobby/someone’s content.

[@psychedelicpunk5031]

@@PyraXadon Absolutely, it just sad seeing those kinds of people because you get the sense of loneliness in their life and participating in the community to the extent they do seems to be the only attention they get. You feel bad for them, you feel bad for the vtuber (or idol or whichever is your interest) but eventually the person becomes very parasocial and it just turns creepy or eerie. I just want to see my oshis succeed in their career, have fun and be able to do whatever makes them happy without getting harassed.

[@meimei]

i'm a fan of all (jpop, kpop, vtuber), and can enjoy without the toxic parts for sure, and sadly with oshi no ko, we jpop idol fans are seen so badly... i get having bias', but don't let it become toxic man, as we've seen how that can end (hurting idols, or yourself..) With vtuber recently it's been chaos and i feel vtuber fandom as gone more bias than any idol fandom would..

[@lucinae8512]

Fandoms in general can be so crazy. There are some franchises I got burned out on, because the fans are so polarised and fixated on their opinions, that they take offense or call people by harsh insults just because their views are different. Some become so obsessed, that they have to get help through therapy! I don't want to oversimplify a wide spectrum of fans, especially since I sometimes talk about my favourite media during therapy, but *Get over it! Worry about things in life that can actually impact you!*

[@Magicalwolfgamer]

I agree!!!!

[@Dinoslay]

Agreed.

[@mossybeewasteland]

literally why most of the time, apart from my friend group in real life, i never tell anyone i'm a super big fan of like, minecraft or the minecraf youtuber fandom if you will.

[@Riu-bw4bl]

Anime fandoms are getting to the point where Im just ready to quit. So many people argue and fight over ships, characters, liking “bad guy” characters, your morality for liking a show or character. Its weird and people take this s*it way to seriously. Something that used to be fun is pretty hard to enjoy nowdays.

[@mossybeewasteland]

@@Riu-bw4bl there's a reason I barely even watch MHA anymore. It's still my number one favorite anime of all time! But the Fandom ruined it for me

[@FrostyxFairy]

I've been a K-pop fan for almost 13 years, and this is literally what I said on my Twitter today retweeting about a certain idol being suspected of being married and I will say it here: How many times does this need to be said? IDOLS👏 ARE👏 NOT👏 THE👏 PROPERTY👏 OF👏 FANS👏 THEY👏 ARE👏 THEIR👏 OWN👏 PERSON👏 AND👏 DESERVE HAPPINESS👏 OUTSIDE👏 OF👏 BEING👏 AN👏 IDOL👏 Edit: Thank you for speaking up about this. Sometimes I hate being a K-pop fan because we're often all grouped in together as being insane by people who aren't fans. I personally would cheer at the news of my favorite idols getting married or starting a family as they're human beings like the rest of us and they deserve to find happiness with someone that will love them for them and not because they're an idol.

[@MxPotato84]

Idols, v-tubers, and celebrities all deserve love and happiness in their private life. They are human too with emotions and pain. Thats why I respect the celebrities of the skill, talent, and their wholesome sweet personality as a human being.

[@coralinebcn_]

Hyde (L'arc en Ciel singer) married the idol Megumi Oishi, and they had a kid 19 or 20 years ago, they are still together 🥰 I'm actually quite curious about the son, I don't think there's ever been a picture of him....

[@simpindulgence6384]

It's for the best to protect the kid.

[@Merdragoon]

Yeah, they also freak out if the v-tuber or idol is disabled as well. So much so that I've noticed that the rules with a lot of vtuber streams are vastly different form normal streamer friends where I'm like "..... I'm going the normal streamer route with my rules because I want boundries". Even though I am a vtuber/pngtuber. But I'm also not trying to grow quickly, so I guess I have that type of privlage of working on my own terms in that regard. But I was thinking "I really should just be more transparent with *parts* of my life where I still have my privacy but I'm honest if my hands are being weak one day or I'm emotionally exsaughted, so I'm not going to be my perky self all the time or going to be on the more quiet side. The companies really do set the bar for what is considered "Vtuber" as it is very much based on the idol culture like you said. Yes, inde Vtubers are trying to change some things but it's hard when a lot of newer vtubers that are going into the community think that you have to follow 1 to 1 of what Companies do just to be successful. (This is my own experiences as an independant and having done the research for an friend at the time. Noticing time and again that this was *very much a pattern* due to the misconceptions and misinfomation due to the companies purpetuating it as they want those toxic, parasocial "fans". I found out later on after I found Yam Bat and Squiji explaining that successful indies actually *don't* follow those rules to the T and they actually interpate them differently since they have to do a lot of stuff on their own time and money.) It would be nice though if there's a way to finally combat that toxic fan behavior.

[@antoinepetit5567]

Don’t worry, Dokibird to gather the internet unit and stay true to herself during her opponent shoots himself a ball in the foot so future vtuber will pay more attention in the choices like becoming independent or going to the side of Vsojo or Phase Connect

[@gabrielaelejalde8249]

I wholeheartedly agree with your views on this matter, some of those things even translate to cancel culture as well, it's unfair unrealistic and very biased when it's not easy to even know the half of the life a person with that much fame goes through every day. I can only think of the mental health issues and concerns for the safety of others that are not even though of by those"superfans"

[@Momoko524]

I was thinking about western cancel culture as well. Getting ridiculed for something you did 15 years ago is just insane to me. Nevermind the reason they are a celebrity and all the awesome things they have done. Means nothing to people once they see they said something offensive a long time ago 😢 Views back then were vastly different from today and I don't feel that we should hold people liable now to things they said a long time ago. Just knowing that we almost could have not gotten Guardians 3 because of cancel culture for example is the reason I really hate it

[@greglane334]

When someone's "culture" is being an absolute stalkerish weirdo, you're damn right that deserves being called out

[@Fishylucifer]

The whole Mii-chan situation was even touched upon in its own way with her character in the AKB0048 anime. I felt so sorry for her when it happened as one of the original members and that's really when I fell off from it.

[@kanna231]

I can agree with you on this there are some fans that goes overboat of thinking that their idol needs to be everything that they want to be without thinking twice and want their idols to stay single but they don't get it that the idols wants to have relationships and living their life the fans don't use their brains or hearts the idols are the victims it happens to other famous people in the state it's sad but true.

[@shiningfingersword]

Idols can have those if they really want them, it's called graduating from the profession. Look up Miki Fujimoto, a great example of someone who continued to thrive in the entertainment industry after choosing to graduate and get married.

[@skzxstay8423]

Man am so glad that you made a video on this topic because it needed and i just hope it will educate those obsessive fans . Like in kpop there some worst fan can easily ruin any idols life. LIKE ITS TOO MUCH CHILDISH . Idols or even any other celebrities they have their own life and life choices they are not different than us their life just like us , they gonna get married , have families its a common sense but i don't why this overass obsessive fans think they own this idols or this celebrities lifes. because of so much hatred and even intentionally typing negative comments when idols doing lives have put so many in depression at the point to commit su*cide like ..like .. its just so frustrating man . I am a kpop fans and whenever my favorite groups go online or do live chatting i always notice those mf intentionally giving negative comment like it makes me so mad like if you don't like it then don't comment it just go somewhere else get f*king life!! Man this obsessive and rude fans can get a therapy?

[@zenithsabyss]

This is why I can't do fandoms anymore. I love a lot of geeky stuff. I can't handle the toxicity, so I just quietly like what I like from my own little corner and stay out of it.

[@azqeyamasle3483]

I understand this as a kpop fan, as much as i enjoy the music and watching the contents, there are times i stopped listening to specific groups after seeing how some 'fans' can be. It could be easier to just leave the kpop fandom but I do enjoy being a fan, but it's also tiring that that means I will have to expect some toxicity and there's nothing i can do about it. These days it is getting more tiring with cancel culture, and the dating scandal is part of it, but idols can't even be in the same room as others of the opposite gender, they can't make a single mistake because it would be unprofessional but if they are too perfect than they are being fake and seeking attention, if they say or do something 'impure' such as being seen going to a club then they're being a bad influence and should be kicked out and yada yada. It's so tiring and fans are not afraid to be the most toxic person on earth without even caring if they look bad to if their favs notice and call them out for such behaviour. I don't know if it's the same with vtubers and jpop but i'm noticing fans just have a daily chore of bringing others down without even knowing them just to bring their favs up. Honestly, what happened to just liking something and that's it, if you don't like something, why care? unless it made news that someone committed a crime, I really don't understand when some fans made being an anti-fan their whole personality

[@lIMajima]

I notice a lot about these fan bases that it starts to not be at all about the music. Just about how much the fans wanna fuck the members. Obviously it's totally okay and normal to have a crush or find them attractive, but it becomes very obsessive and no one really talks about the actual music anymore, just about how hot the members are.

[@animefreak4437]

You know its a good day when aki posts ❤

[@zorokicksass60]

I love when Ali rosenthal posts to

[@mycrochetlifeanime]

i totally agree with you aki, thank you so much for todays video. i was super happy to see a new video from my favorite youtuber. wish you a great day :)

[@lawrencefernandez8874]

I love the Enna's clip at the end HAHAHAHA

[@zackattack3867]

This is why I think Oshi no Ko got such a following, because it showed the darkside of the fandom in this type of culture

[@yof2210]

That's why I initially followed it Though it took too long to get to the meat and potatoes And said meat and potatoes were small portioned

[@CalmClamFam]

What I find concerning tho is that the fans of Oshi no Ko started attacking the mom of Hana Kimura, the celebrity that inspired one of the characters in the series. Her mom was just voicing her concern that her daughter’s struggle was being used as “free source material”. Sure, you could argue that the author had the right to use Hana’s likeness, but that doesn’t mean the fandom was right to cyber bully the mother who is still suffering from the loss of her daughter. Unlike the character in Oshi no Ko, Hana Kimura’s situation didn’t end with a happy ending since she unalived herself. It’s as if these fans didn’t learn anything from series. Edit: To add more to the irony, the Oshi no Ko fandom was flagged by BPO, which is a Japanese watchdog organization that informs about concerning content in national broadcasting. They warned about “excessive harassment” coming from the fanbase

[@itzshaleaedits6859]

​@@CalmClamFamAs a person being in the onk community, sometimes i feel like people are watching this series with there eyes close. Daily harassment, doxxing, and how how the fans downplay some dark parts in the manga because they don't like the character. (for example, people don't believe that Kana is being abuse from her mom and people shipping her with THAT person). So they never really learn from this series.

[@shiningfingersword]

Unfortunately, said following seems to think Oshi no Ko is some type of expose when the author is an outsider of the entertainment industry.

[@sissysovereign1294]

I really think the anime film "Perfect Blue" and the anime series "Oshi No Ko" really touches down on how fucked up the idol and entertainment industry actually is. Not just in Japan in Korea but here in States too. If you act like a normal human being, or fall in love you get punished severely, even in some cases with your life. It's very disturbing

[@joperhop]

idol culture is toxic, and the vtuber community can be vile, i have left communities for some vtubers I like because the fans in those communities are NUTS!!

[@kanna231]

And unstabled.

[@lucinae8512]

Fandoms in general can become nuts. There are some franchises I got burned out on, because the fandom is so polarised and fixated on their opinions, that they take offense or call people by harsh insults just because their views are different. Some become so obsessed, that they have to get help through therapy! I don't want to oversimplify a wide spectrum of fans, especially since I sometimes talk about my favourite media during therapy, but *Get over it! Worry about things in life that can actually impact you!*

[@franzjpm]

Lol This is why I don't check chat and some communities on social media for some content creator

[@antoinepetit5567]

At the moment it is hardly to know which company is the worst: Wactor or Kurosanji🗿💀

[@franzjpm]

@@antoinepetit5567 Both, both are bad.

[@rebeccasjodal9769]

You're so right! The reactions from fans on their idols lives and choices, says more about the fans and their problems, than the idols!

[@tami4236]

I never loved u for a video u posted more than today. Thank you for being a person online that finally says this because honestly same. I used to be such a big fan of k-pop and anime and nowdays I just feel bad for liking things in general. I feel ashamed of being a part of anything

[@flan6987]

@Zeglnathecatnobody cares

[@hypan0vaULTRA]

it's so idiotic. i'm queer and I read ender's game so, by their logic, I think I'M "against god."

[@sylnalise2242]

Well said.

[@Momoko524]

Yeah I agree. I've always wanted to say it but if you try on any forum you'll probably get death threats 😢

[@rickyboiiiii]

You can't just post Vox as an example when he's the most hypocrite among all of them.

[@krismistaa14]

Fans like those are crazy to be with. Like I would rather choose not to engage with them

[@maggie_galle7651]

you are so right! it IS crazy that people even think they get to have a say in what those celeberties do, say or even wear. a lot of celeberties have developped social anxiety, but can you really be surprised?? hell! i would get anxiety just watching yet another drama unfold involving some of the artists i follow!

[@0SailorRose0]

I’m glad I’ve interacted & stayed in the vtuber fan space that actually does not care about the personal life of a vtuber. If they’re in a relationship, that’s cool! Me and so many others are there to enjoy & receive the entertainment that our oshi’s provide for us, and as long as they’re safe & happy, that’s all that matters. But the loud minority of vtuber fans that take the parasocialism to an unhealthy level, or claim to be fans then go around harassing others, are fans that I denounce constantly. They’re in it for the satisfaction of their own desires, and in it to cause as much harm to everyone else, which makes the vast majority of us vtuber fans look *incredibly* bad. Your criticisms against the fans are completely understandable, but also, don’t let it overshadow the vast majority of us and our normal views on vtubers. We’re just like normal fans of content creators like you & Joey.

[@angelicart.6]

9:52 damn, let this man dub an anime PLEASE that scream was perfect. 😭

[@koralgol777]

it was a troll

[@angelicart.6]

@@koralgol777 what should the point of your comment be?

[@angelicart.6]

@@Wolfkrieg_ even then, the point of your comments still has no correlation with mine 💀

[@GhastlyVTClips]

As a small Vtuber, I can agree to alot of this. so many of these unhealthy fans try to make you "theirs" in some way and can become obsessive. its why alot of Vtubers worry bout doxxing and not even face revealing. but yes thes parasocial situations are unhealthy and can hurt both sides in the end.

[@Magicalwolfgamer]

I agree. It’s insane how crazy fans get .

[@mogie_bear5031]

This is an excellent video with an even more magnificent point being made. Good job Aki!!

[@FilianAfterHours]

I got this notification while watching a vtuber clip on TikTok 💀

[@sediew]

I just watched a fuwamoco clip lmao

[@littlesparrow303]

As someone who listens to some K-pop groups & Ado. I don’t take it too far & don’t see them as goddesses. I love voice actress even from Japan. I get happy seeing them enjoy their lives & having a family. Seeing the fandom take it too far I do try avoiding interacting with them

[@oscarmurillo4067]

I still enjoy K-pop, J-idol, J-pop and even some v-tubers, but once I moved to South Korea, I decided to get out of idol fandom because when I was a part of Momoland's international fan club, it was quite uncomfortable because of the crazed behaviors. For example, when two members of my favorite K-pop group of all time, Rainbow, got married, I thought it was pretty cool to see them moving up in life. Now, do I want to meet idols? Of course I do. Would I get heartbroken if I see they are dating? Not really because idols are human too and they have every right to do as they please. As long as they are doing alright and keep making kickass tunes, all is well.

[@glitterbounce]

I loved that interview!!!! The fan base here is based~☆ and 10 yrs later still here~☆

[@A_fellow_observer]

Some of these people are so delulu that they can’t comprehend the fact that a celebrity doesn’t owe them a relationship.

[@citizenstrife]

What's worse than being starstruck? Being starstruck with access to Twitter.

[@Rockawaysiren]

In the summer of 1984 Duran Duran were pretty big and i was listening to a radio station in Tampa Florida and they announced that the drummer, Roger Taylor, had married. A couple girls called the station and the hosts put them on the air and they were HOWLING!! “How could he??? *gasp* wahhhh” clearly distraught (the hosts were just chuckling at the ridiculousness of it). But at least that’s as far as it went- no internet so no internet death threats. The girls probably just ripped all the posters off their wall!

[@trinityramos2686]

I feel the same way, I love your videos and you are doing great. Have a beautiful day.❤😊

[@marsh503]

Also in general if idols support smth they dont like it's hell as well. Not even just dating. Tae from BTS just released a song that has a lot of queer rep in the back and omg were homophobic "armys" like "omg im so betrayyedd" as if the members havent shown their support to (and even more than hinted at being part of) the community. And a few members have done videos with love interests? ohhhh ppl lose their shit. I notice this behaviour ESPECIALLY on platforms similar to weverse. Like MOST of the stuff I see on those platforms is similar to that. This entitlement of "don't do this bc /I/ don't like it! And seeing how weverse works, yeah what you're saying is so right: companies feed into this. Weverse is not community based. It's not about other ppl and interacting with each other as fans and building a community it's about trying to get attention so that your fav responds to you. That's how it's built. And it just feeds into this "me me me I'm the only one that matters" mentality, it's WILD. As an ARMY, this fandom can be INCREDIBLE but mannnn that side?? how can these ppl even be called fans my god (bc they clearly dont care or listen to what these idols say or feel). I can't even begin to IMAGINE thinking like that. It's a level of delusion that should be hospitalized imo.

[@spatzilions2752]

See, I love k-pop and bands like BTS, Stray Kids, twice, etc. But they have their own lives and so do I. When I hear they are in relationships, I'm happy for them. I like them so I want them to be happy. People need to learn to get over it.

[@trauma_queen_30]

I am a vtuber/faceless streamer who started streaming and making content with a long term partner. I still had very vile/adult themed messeges from "fans" ranging from uncomfortable comments to talking/asking more about my personal life which I never answer and worst of all forced role play in my dms. Forced. Adult. Roleplay. of very vile things and using very vulgar language and I am only a very very very small vtuber/content creator. I try to keep those people very far away from me and my community but I can only imagine how impossible that is when you becomer a bigger face online/on social media or in real life.

[@AwokenArtist]

PREACH on the true fans part. If anyone is a real fan they would of be super supportive and kind and happy for those idols even the vtubers. Parasocial people in those communities are not fans at all...because they only do what benifits them and be the absolute worst people and send ridiculous death threats cause god forbid their favorite idol and vtuber is married and taken. like dude get a fucking grip. As someone who is a vtuber myself, we dont allow parasocial shit. alot alot alot of vtubers dont allow it. period. people being creepy the vtubers would be very vocal on about it on pointing out what their doing isnt okay. Your favorite wifu and husbando in the vtuber community is taken well be happy for them. they're happy! The same goes for content creators also on youtube too because people do parasocial shit. im still pissed about the parasocial fans getting pissy towards Amy for dating Markiplier and its like - dude hes fricken happy why dont you chillax?????? People forget these people are human. the same for vtubers, theyre actual people behind the models. they are not anyones waifus, their not anyones huabandos, they dont owe anyone shit on anything, they are not anyones girlfriend and boyfriend in these parasocial peoples fantasies. they have a right to date whoever they want that they truely love and someone who supports and genuially cares about them. lets be blunt and real - idols , vtubers, and content creators alike- dont want to date anyone who is a fan and acts so parasocial because thats a major red flag cause the parasocial people act way too entitled like a karen and think their idols/vtubers/content creators owe them anything and info, and get pissy and go into death threat mode when told no and find out their favorite person is taken and married acting like world is over its the end when ,....its not and these people need to seek professional help for their concerning behavior. vtuber community i dont engage much i only engage with those i come across and those who are friends of my friends. i mostly ignore the big side of the vtuber community and just do my own thing in my vtuber scene with my tiny community. i just keep enjoying do what i do like everyone should and everyone shouldnt let the ridiculous parasocial questionable people ruin their fun and enjoyment of enjoying kpop and vtubers and such. you can still enjoy them while not being in the community. theres gonna be rabbid fans and people who wanna do stupid things, theyre in EVERY community , and only way to not engage with them is just block and dont even give them the time of day. enjoy what you truely enjoy. if you feel disconnected cause your just not enjoying it as a whole anymore thats fine. i dont let the fans side make me want to quit enjoying. if i dont enjoy something anymore its for something else or its just suddenly fell out of love for it.

[@bubby205]

The idols culture, especialy in Japan is like a reflection of Japanese society. Stress of school, taking job, interact social, paying bills,... their toxic lifestyle is making the japanese guys going crazy, become Hikikomori or something like that. I personaly don't like the crazy fans cuz their attitude to the idols, but the society is putting them like this so i can't hate them.

[@benkoskinen3871]

Wow somebody with empathy and compassion in the comment section, incredible.

[@beomkaslana]

But pressuring and harassing idols because they don't fit their expectations and demands? Idc how shitty their lives are, don't treat people like doll ffs. Just buy some dakimakura or some human sized doll instead of hurting other people to fulfill your fantasies.

[@HobieInTheBox]

Industries market these idols and talents as dolls that the fans can project themselves on to, that's where it goes south.

[@akeultomo2213]

I feel this. I stopped really talking with fans after what with rushia and depressed nousagi. So many people in the vtuber space defended DN when it was found out he was selling doxxed info of the hololive EN girls. He sold their faces,states they lived in, and if I remember right even their past jobs and what they did, it was creepy asf. He even had private info about one of them called kira, which was about a traumatic life event with her and sold it. When people called him out on this so many people came running saying it's not doxxing even though the links he gave were to doxxing sites and tried the whole it's 2 clicks away and act so entitled like they have a right to know this info cause they once gave a vtuber $2. I found myself after that talking to vtuber fans less and less and getting annoyed at how many saw it as a competition to who was more popular. Ever since I did that, I found myself enjoying it more, but it sucks feeling like i take a risk to talk to any fans of vtubers now.

[@Valecan]

It may be more prominent in Japan, but this is an issue on some level for all celebrities both big and small. One of my online associates I had to tell that the best way to think about online streamers or personalities is that they are entertainers and what you are experiencing watching or interacting with them is only real to a point. When they go offline or off the clock, they have there personal life that is none of anyone's business but there own.

[@Rhonettala187]

I've had this video in my watch later playlist for weeks, so I'm glad I finally got to watch it. Yes to everything you said.

[@DitisEmile]

Oh! I didn't know you met Miyavi! He's amazing.

[@moon-cf7ti]

As someone who has been in so heavily into kpop, the parasocial relationship got so much worse over the years as the company pushes those agendas when it shouldn’t matter what goes on in their faves lives. Like you said as long as they are happy that’s what matters. Over the years I have pulled back from kpop because of how toxic it is so I just support my faves the best I can

[@Soulhope85]

Those obsessive superfans are pitiful, sure. The premise is you market the idea of idols as "pure" and that is what the fans expect. Its like breaking a contract. Give pure idols => get fans throwing a yachtload of money at you. For us it seems just bizarre but i accept it as it is.

[@kathrynjames6151]

I'm so glad I'm not the only one who feels this way. I really love kpop, BTS and BlackPink being my favorites, but I can't stand some of the people who go crazy online and in person about them. They forget that while they are idols, they are people to. They have their own lives, so let them live their lives. We can still enjoy what they put out there and let them do as they wish off screen or stage.

[@A_Fr0ggie_]

This is a really informative video about idol culture. Even in other fan cultures, there are insane fans who hate when their favorite creators get into relationships and aren't exactly how they imagine them to be. I find it to be much worse in the idol industry due to how the corporates only see them as product for the consumer to spend their money on

[@computernerd8157]

Yea, I seen versions of this in the states but this is over the top. Idol culture got this bad because the coperation in Japan pander to it.

[@Ajlez]

"They're barely fans" DAMN you said it! 👏That one line sums up so much.

[@NimrodClover]

You did hit the core reason at 4:46 and it is so nice that you did mention it. Every one of these has some component that ends up back at the "culture" of the idol industry. The companies have a predatory and exploitative aspect that has been noted for decades. Yes, there is a core difference between the aspects of celebrity in Eastern and Western culture and it was important that you mentioned that along with the more drastic examples. It is also unfortunate how the Idol infrastructure, along with its problems has infiltrated streaming content and the very "young" Vtuber world which really has only had major issues after classic company Idol approach started to have conflicts with the highly individualized and independent Vtuber culture. Yes, it all comes back to Idol culture and how deleterious it can be by design.

[@tiny-angry-chicken]

I left the kpop community because of all the toxicity. So many hated on what you liked but would go ballistic when you said anything about their “idols”. Even from the beginning I thought the whole “stan” thing was weird. How they made their whole life kpop. Now, I met so many awesome people in that community and it helped me grow as a person. I’ll never regret the time I was in that community, it’s just so sad to see the rotten part expanding. I haven’t changed my pfp because I’m lazy, okay- Edit: also my name. I’m too lazy to come up with something else and fix it Edit, again: I CHANGED IT :D

[@rimaevenstar]

Great Video! Thank you for including my video in this as well :)

[@j.t.z.s.]

well, sadly, in "idol culture", somehow there is a rule enforced contractually by idol agencies that their idol talents are not allowed to be in a relationship. the other alternative is to go "mainstream".

[@Evilmoofinz101]

This just reminds me of what happened with Christina Grimmie where this fan became obsessed with her and when she got a boyfriend, the fan went crazy, went to her concert and ended her life and then his own. It’s so sad. She was so young and it was all because of parasocial relationships and fans being crazy.

[@mrzn.darida8981]

Miyavi is simply amazing and beautiful ❤️

[@TataDextera]

Omg, when you started talking about obssesion and idols I remembered the anime movie that traumatized me af (enough for me to forgot the title), but it was about a security guard obsessed with an ido whose concerts he was securing. This shit was low key scary but high key traumatizing and crazy Edit: googled it, Perfect Blue is the name of movie

[@karenwilson9528]

I heard that in Southeast Asian countries the 'boycott' is very powerful! The public turning against a product is super powerful. Perhaps that's why companies that sell pop music etc, from their beginnings, took super good care of their fans fantasys. Now fans are so used to this that they feel entitled to it.

[@TakashiDemonServant]

There are certain fandoms that I have been completely avoiding due to how the fans are and how the fans act.

[@nuf412]

The thing that pisses me off so much is that these entertainment companies don't promote artist and their work, they promote parasocial relationships, fictional people with a clear character sheet that the fans can fantasise about, and these people are not allowed to stray away from the character they're playing. The companies need them to do somzthing to be bankable but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter, they are what the company needs them to be, regardless of what they are actually good at. They're just products for the company to sell, that's why there is ton of idol merch with their face on it and that's why we're seeing the same thing happen with vtubers Truth is that for these artist, because they're not really being promoted as artist but rather as fantasies, regular fans wouldn't spend money on them and the companies know that, so they push the idols and vtubers to be very close to the other part of their fanbase that is more extreme because these people are willing to pay ungodly amounts of money just to say hi to the idol/vtuber

[@yunlisa2243]

Listen to all famous content creators of the entire world!! true fans will always be loyal and respect your personal boundaries and etc. true fans will always support you. Don’t be discouraged by toxic and fake fans. be yourself and have voice to speak up when it’s necessary. I love this video so much because it’s encouraging to everyone to be yourself. And, maybe say it before hand of your dislikes. If the fans really like you, they’ll respect it and not be toxic or entitled. Boy, trust me. I encountered many entitled ppl and toxic ppl. I’m like it’s really F up.

[@fundici]

"Don't join if You don't like Idol culture" and then their culture is stalking and sending threats to people

[@JaxHolo]

They think stalking is legal.

[@devilsspit]

I agree with all of this, because I literally grew up with K-pop, and I also grew up with you and this is not about you, but I grew up watching your videos all the time, but as I realized in life that I didn’t like what was going on in the anime community? I really distanced myself from them, and then I also distance myself from KZbinrs and sadly you were one of them. I can sadly include anime into this because of the amount of bullying that I received for just liking these things and then a couple years later it became a whole fad and everybody was into it, and I felt so ashamed, but also like angry at the same time because I was literally made fun of for liking all of these things and then all of a sudden it’s OK for you to like it? The fandom specifically in the K-pop and K-pop communities are extremely obsessive. a current controversy that is going on right now is that they think that a male K-pop idol said fuck after a meet and greet on live and people are demanding in person for him to leave the group..

[@LviathanGG]

Moral of the story guys: Delulu isn't the solulu

[@Onest00p1d_vampire]

I'm into VTubers and even want to be a vtuber myself because it's a way for me to express myself without showing my face. HOWEVER, I've seen how insane some fans can be and some are batshit insane. Even I can't help but feel embarrassed seeing people in the community act stupid and obsessive over their oshi

[@meimaraa]

9:52 Hello! Actually, correct me if im wrong but the crying and screaming that can be heard was satirical, it was done by a Japanese comedian. (Although, i would not be shocked if some Rushia fans sounded like that once they found out about the mafumafu situation)

[@meimei]

grew up as a jidol fan, and honestly if you ignore those crazy folks, we have a big community in supporting, which has had bumps in converting to vtubers..

[@PaxiPrime]

Oshi no ko is a great series that covers the dark world of idols. Thanks for speaking up on this!

[@shiningfingersword]

Written by someone who is an outsider to the idol industry.

[@Theturtleowl]

That guy at the handshake event scares me. That stare he gives gives me serial killer vibes.

[@danimation1915]

This is going to be unpopular but I have to add that there is some sort of two way engagement in this sort of thing, and ignoring that plays into the idea that there is no fix and we just have to deal with these annoying crazy fans. The thing that that draws these groups into the same category (hence drawing a similar fanbase) is the marketing element in which you get to listen / watch these people, interact eith them via superchats or live settings - have planned meet ups and have all sort of incentives to buy into an "oshi" or the equivalent in these other groups. Obviously this isn't always pushed by the performer and is usually done by marketing teams (or people higher up the chain you know what I mean). All that being said - and I hate to say it - but the conclusion of the video just being "guys haha just stop being crazy and get over yourself" is strange when in reality, there are oddballs who have no social life, may have some disability or are just straight up neet shut ins that don't leave their room and are using up half of their rent money to donate / buy all the merch because "maybe they'll be noticed". It's a perpetual cycle that isn't just continued by the weird people buying into it - it's the practices by the company and people too

[@DesuVR]

More people need to be taught to put one's self into another's shoes. That one phrase has conditioned me not to go looney over meeting famous people.

[@Entoy.o7]

I am the most parasocial person I know and yet I get pissed off when I am lumped up with people like these. when the Rushia was married situation reached me, I felt overjoyed that she found someone that she could truly love, and then I wondered why everyone didnt feel the same way that I felt. As someone who has been living because of vtubers, I can say that if you truly love the person that gives you reason and purpose then you would want nothing but happiness for them. the thing that really pisses me off is that there are bastards who genuinely think that they are entitled to something. . . and the worst part of it all is that they dare call themselves "fans".

[@Doris-gf4hb]

I hate to break it to you but she abuse Mafumafu.

[@Entoy.o7]

@@Doris-gf4hb oof that sucks. . . I will still love Rushia, Nazuna, Mike neko the same way though 乁⁠|⁠ ⁠･⁠ ⁠〰⁠ ⁠･⁠ ⁠|⁠ㄏ

[@Doris-gf4hb]

@@Entoy.o7 How can you support an abuser and not caring about a victim? Like there is no excuse for abuse. If you think that she did nothing wrong then you need to take a break from social media

[@RavenBurlingame]

I'm a huge fan of a lot of idols, bands, band members, Voice actors & a lot of other kind of celeberties. No matter what they do in their personal life is their life not the fans to control. we're all human I'm even a huge fan of yours but will always watch your vids and still be cheering for you and Joey.

[@kyuketsuki_462]

I see so many similarities in the Anime Fanbase community as well. We have people criticizing others for experiencing anime differently ( aka, manga readers, sub-watchers,dub-watchers ) and we have people obsessing over anime characters, and some of those, at least in the show, are minors… it’s all just so toxic and it made me not watch anime as much anymore or just barely talk about it, never online, cause I know I’ll get ridiculed for simply not liking a ship. Seriously, ppl need to wake up to reality.

[@mariajosebenitezarias]

Amazing video, other than Tokyo idols I also recommend my star/ oshinoku (I think that's how it's spelled) but it's a really good anime that really depicts "idol culture" in general, and the art work for it so pretty in my opinion because I know that not everyone agrees on certain things.

[@sebp9882]

I think people who have 'half their foot in reality' as you put it, or normies, don't understand the depth of mental illness loneliness can bring to people who use idol culture as a means of escapism from the lack of social connection. At some point in life, if no one wants you, when no one wants to talk to you, when no one wants to be intimate with you, let alone be friends with you, then you are cut off from having any sort of social life. I know because I am part of that group that no one wants to touch with a 10-foot pole, even though I haven't done anything heinous to warrant such rejection from society. Luckily, I am not into idol culture and do not participate in it, but a lot of people like me will use it to fill in the void of their lack of social connection. And I'm talking zero social connection- not even "oh I have a few online friends". If you are trapped in this metaphorical dark cave, chained to the wall by your mental illness, physical unattractiveness, or neurodivergence (and other faults normals like to blame us for) an idol may be the only thing that keeps you sane, like a candlelight in the endless darkness. When this light is extinguished or when one can no longer maintain the illusion of the parasocial relationship, people like this snap, because it's the last thing that keeps them passive. Sometimes this feeling of betrayal is directed outward. That doesn't make what they do correct, but I can understand it. What you are talking about, Aki, is the depths of the void of loneliness that hopefully you will never come to understand. It's not about being a fan or partaking in celebrity culture, it is a deep-seated rot of the mental health of fans as a result of severe loneliness; it's just that idols collect these sort of people.

[@Redfield253]

no, straight up, these STANS freaks for these idols are cliniclally insane

[@FallenZer0]

I don't know what is worse, fans of pop singers or fans of vtubers. I feel like at least half of the vtubers get fan bases for being vulgar and having semi attractive models. They don't really have much talent in games or singing so outside of being a woman, i don't get it