The recent cheating scandal

Bushiroad made an announcement about an issue at Worlds. Was this cheating? Here are the receipts.
The investigation document: docs.google.com/document/d/1_...
My twitter post: / 1782727183536206132
00:00 Intro
09:38 VOD review of the dodgy sequences
41:05 Conclusion
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#cardfightvanguard #cfv #ヴァンガード #wcc

[@eko_cvz5254]

The thing people are failing to understand is that when someone cheats. IF we find out, it's not "oh shame he had to cheat" it's he's always been cheating and we only now know. It retroactively does immense damage. Every round of every event he's potentially stomped a worthy player's chance to leave a legacy behind. Having this NOT be stomped out is a net negative because it shows cheaters there's no reason to stop and it shows people who are on the verge of cheating that there's no downside. It runs the risk of bringing legitimacy to any cheating accusation because now people can legitimately go "So what if he hadn't been caught, Man Long got away with it for years"

[@bepsi4222]

some people still have the dignity to show back up to locals after allegations of cheating. there is absolutely zero reason to cheat. it just ruins the community

[@madcuriosity502]

they trading their dignity for money

[@xroshe4rt]

@@madcuriosity502You don’t even get prize money for winning Vg tourneys. There is legit ZERO reason to cheat

[@alchapwn]

"theres no reason to cheat" (Theres money on the line)

[@Hiro_Amos]

It's crazy he was so confident in his cheating strategy that he was fine doing it live multiple times. You did a good job bringing this to greater attention with a well explained video, hopefully something gets done about this.

[@yuseifudo7987]

I hope the person gets banned or gets punished to not be able to do join tournaments.

[@abyssyahoo151]

@@yuseifudo7987they said they aren’t going to issue any penalties

[@ferry2676]

he practiced the shuffle at home of course he would be so confident

[@TerminatedAccount.]

Nerd

[@ChairmanTCG]

"Cheating needs intent" THANK YOU that is single handedly the most difficult thing to explain to players that no, their opponent who is extremely nervous and VISIBLY SHAKING and accidentally shuffled their deck when they weren't supposed to was probably not cheating.

[@akirandrake414]

Thank you, as someone who doesn't do well with crowds, I'd be nervous as heck at an in-person tournament.

[@ArcherInTraining2]

Yes and there are always new players that won't admit they are new who are still figuring out the game or figuring out new cards with abilities they aren't accustomed to.

[@jmuggah]

As great as that sounds for intent to be a thing, that’s also why they do deck checks when you get to top cut and regardless of if you intentionally have sleeves that are easily accessible/noticeable or not they will either ask you to replace them or you’ll be stricken from the top cut. Intentional cheating or not should not take away from someone else who has taken time and effort to know everything they need for their game.

[@mrdude88]

The intent of cheating is to win. So if you cheat without the intent to win, you're not cheating. So “Cheating Needs Intent.”

[@BluePegasus1381]

Can you also cover the recent Bushiroad Springfest 2024 in Manila? It's absolutely terrible. Wslasher actually post a vid about that so called " Disaster"

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

I know there's a lot of drama with that, but it will be hard to ascertain much conclusive info when I only have second hand accounts. Unfortunately, this will likely require a lot more investigation with the judges involved too, so I cannot make an investigation like this one where I have VODs and hard evidence.

[@madcuriosity502]

@@WorldClassCardfighters how about the singapore one?

[@tsunaide]

The glint of the lighting glare on a card sleeve while ‘shuffling’ is a good indicator that they are holding the cards to read and place it where ever they want. 29:37

[@invertbrid]

He is finally banned now, for 2 years. And his winning prizes + titles are getting revoked.

[@Vegito-qz7od]

Needs to be banned for life. Once a cheater, always a cheater.

[@felixS979]

I feel like letting the opponent shuffle the deck is the problem here, it's called a "cut" for a reason. The owner is supposed to shuffle after a search and then lays the deck face down, then the opponent with one hand "cuts" the deck at a random section and places the bottom part at the top of the cut. No cards get seen by either player because if the opponent is only using one hand he has to set the top cut down and then raise the bottom to stack it. This prevents both players from cheating off a shuffle.

[@LemonChanh]

A cut is the simplest way I agree to prevent people from cheating on the cut side to cheat but people do shuffle really weird that I think a normal cut wouldn't prevent that sometimes. What I do is I do shuffle my opponents deck but before I even pick it up I turn my head out of respect and don't even look at it while riffle shuffle it. Now if someone isn't comfortable enough shuffling without looking they can try to do multiple cuts but the best way for true randomization is riffle

[@ovensteak]

i play one piece and a cut doesnt always work like in games like one piece where you cant search the deck except top 5. ive seen players stack their deck and their lives before so a lot of one piece players will take the deck one the cut shuffle the shit out of it cut it and then take like top 10 and bottom deck them.

[@aeolus7762]

In a lot of sanctioned TCG/CCGs, an opponent is allowed to shuffle the deck as part of their "cut", however, the player whose deck is being shuffled then has the opportunity to cut after and 100% should cut after. It prevents situations like this from happening. I'm not in the CFV community, but as an MTG, player, opps shuffling is a common occurrence and should always lead to a cut by the deck owner after. The cut should always be the final action, additional shuffling or not.

[@raymondchristiant322]

There is one opponent that beat him in V-prem bcs indo 2023 on swiss, she told me that after shuffling her deck before the game starts, he suddenly says that "I've never played against a chronofang deck before". You know what? she's using chronofang deck. Let's say its just a guess and random talk, what are the chances of him meeting a chronofang player and saying those right to the player? This information assures me that he's really peeking at his shuffles, especially when he's caught on camera.

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

I remember his record for V where he lost to an OTT player I think. We joked that because OTT doesn't shuffle and mainly stacks their deck, there's nothing he can do against it.

[@leafy-rw1yv]

its crazy because some friend group actually try to overlook the cheater friend so it becomes a cycle of cheating especially in locals and you will get no say in any allegation because you are outnumbered

[@user-sg6se9wt6o]

Bruh what am i fighting for when the dev say it's okay to cheat

[@nikolaidavidlitonjua8817]

Will there be any coverage of the Philippines BSF top team fiasco in future?

[@jhonlhorbae9430]

I thought this was BSF 2024 Manila, Philippines. Well, I don't think there would be any video or gameplay of it given most of it were spent on judge calls.

[@yakitatefreak]

Do not ask for a judge's cut as players have been known to take advantage of this situation too. Instead, ask for a judge shuffle of your deck instead to prevent cheating. This should help alleviate some of the issues that have been known to happen in game and will not allow for any information of cards to be revealed to the opponent.

[@truegamerking]

Why not ask a judge to cut...?

[@lemonsq]

I know it's happened a few times in magic but essentially they'll do the same thing of manipulating the top card of your deck to be a good card knowing you'll cut and decreasing your chances of seeing it. By having a judge shuffle it ensures that the deck is properly randomized when it's handed back to you.

[@shinobuch.4897]

MANLONG alreade accused in Indonesia with the same case of "improper Shuffling", and yet he didnt get any penalties RIP

[@pikago1811]

Big respect for making this video. Cheating is always wrong, but doing so among top players who have been giving it their all and crave a great fight.....man....this is not what Vanguard is about. In the end, people who cheat have lost sight of the best thing of a TCG like Vanguard. So many players dream of having a match against cardfighters like you, WCC, Solemn, tyfyghtr and many other great teams and players, so seeing people having that chance and cheating feels bad. Peace!

[@joconsjariol3578]

Every physical card game is too only play for fun especially vanguard, but cheating in the game is always a wrong way too do because the way like him cheat in the game of vanguard isn't playing for fun at all it's just very dirty and unfair match ups it's like a mindless person who didn't know what vanguard actually is, then a secret way too win in the game like vanguard is too play by confidents

[@jonathanowens300]

Proud of you guys for covering this!

[@akaniichan]

Dude is a repeat offender and is a one trick phony with the same force bottom shuffle. It was quite a big deal back then too in Indonesia.

[@bobbeh_tv]

love your content bro. keep it up. hope to see you at a GT

[@DCTheScholar]

Thank you for doing this and going over the signs. I think players, especially new ones, fail to recognize off behavior. It always sets off a red flag when my opponent does not cut the deck in half after manipulating it in any other sort of way fr! May expand on this topic!

[@dinodude2597]

Would love to have seen him try to do this against Tachikaze

[@paultom1430]

Thank you for breaking this down and providing this act in an informative fashion. I think that bushi and other card games should hold cheaters accountable regardless of how much time has passed. Its unfortunate that nothing really happened and I do believe that there was some cheating involved. It takes some crazy luck to have 1 or 2 of cards in deck to be present at specific times this constantly. Personally not a fan of cheating regardless of casual play or high stake events.

[@DigiTism]

It’s serious, but not cheating to win serious. No place for cheating in any community.

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

sadly theres a guy in houston known for cheating in our locals, has been accused at houston springfest. they got 3rd place in first and 2nd day

[@teksetknight128]

Man, he's gonna have a Long time coming for him if he keeps this up.

[@PBJOnePi]

Mum get the camera!! In all honesty, i jus thought i was really unlucky that game until my friends pointed it oht😆

[@laxiden1595]

In our hearts you are the victor 😢

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

I hate Bermuda, but i hate cheaters more. im sorry that happened to you.

[@kuro_f_x]

Nah this "long long man" guy just got dat Duel Links skill on bro

[@Anallia67]

how come in Vanguard you don't shuffle your own deck and offer to opponent to cut like most TCGs? Or if the opponent chooses to shuffle your deck, youre allowed to cut it afterwards? Feels like this would prevent this issue as frequently

[@truegamerking]

Honestly, I am a firm believer that, in any card game, your opponent should not be allowed to shuffle your cards. 1: it takes longer than a cut. 2: more opportunity for your cards to get damaged or sleeves to break if your opponent is shuffling them improperly. 3: there's no benefit to shuffling over cutting.

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

1. you can shuffle your deck before handing it to your opponent. 2. your idea just swaps how the cheat happens. Say manlong shuffles his own deck second, he can now trigger stack is drive checks or defensive checks. 3. if he knows you will cut the deck after he manipulates your deck. he will put the good cards at the top so they get pushed to the bottum. 4. there was a pokemon cheater that was good at manipulating the deck. he was good at know where the cut spot was so all the bad cards would end right where you cut so you cut several bad cards right to the top no matter which stack you put on top. "he got caught live and Luckly the judge saw the live chat stream and took action." 5. with the above reasoning, theres no actual fix to the problem other then harsh penalties given to the cheater even if the cheat was found at a later date.

[@truegamerking]

@preemptivefaceplant5277 I think you are majorly misunderstanding The process should always be: you shuffle your own deck, then you offer your opponent specifically a cut.

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

@@truegamerking no I am not misunderstanding. I have seen all the tricks both sides can take advantage of a cut. You are basicly saying. Hey let me stack my deck in a way that when you cut I will get the cards I want at the top. This has been in issue in all card games.

[@truegamerking]

@@preemptivefaceplant5277 if that's your thoughts there's nothing that says you have to cut directly in the middle

[@danielmokobia106]

Thanks for spreading the word

[@crystalcastles8856]

Bushiroad with the most goated response of all time : sorry can’t do anything XD

[@BluePegasus1381]

At this point, Bushiroad is just trying to save face because of their oversight.

[@acnologia8787]

My local have 1 player like that. 1 of my friends told me he shuffle cheater at first i dont really believe him after i buy luard deck fight against that player 10 cards left in deck 2 of it is unit other triggers, guess what trigger check 2 of it is the unit cards. Happen too many times until my friend sell his deck and quit vanguard.

[@StevetheNPC1337]

Card magic 101 - even if you're not manipulating the cards, you shuffle the same way every time so that it doesn't look suspect when you DO manipulate the cards. (in regards to the final round with judge cuts)

[@windwaker0rules]

Bushiroad endorsed shuffling method.

[@xoctavia1418]

as someone who has gotten accused of cheating countless times (i would usually beat the "pro" players at locals, but lose to everyone else) i'm glad cheating is getting called out, and looked at, instead of just "they cheated". i hate false accusations, and i am glad people are now looking into stuff like this.

[@jordangreene8125]

When Bandit Keith wins finals 😭

[@hirotokazuya2613]

is the guy got ban or something? Cause this hurt

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

No ban. This is why I wanted to make this thread so people know what's going on.

[@ArsisKytori]

Enjoying the FFXIV BG music

[@RhysGee]

This is so disappointing to see, man.

[@Roy5556]

Yoooo XIV music! Hell yeah

[@Soureika]

The reason this is hard to punish is because it needs to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt since if it’s that one small small probability it all a “coincidence” it will suck but yeah the way he shuffle is known for deck stacking that and he looks down when shuffling at that angle does invite seeking info but if it’s not pointed out during gameplay it’ll fall under accepted game state but yeah this is most likely cheating. It’s better if you just shuffle your own deck and your opponent cuts it instead would be an easier prevention of this

[@joeycrosby167]

It's really disappointing how bushiroad isn't addressing this. I was hoping to see actual punitive action to make an example of Long and some punishment for both the player and judge in Manilla that collaborated to cheat, but the lack of action is just encouraging this type of behavior. DifferentFight said it best

[@littlebusterexlittlebuster1918]

香港方面 裁判曾說過比賽出術是很正常 然後不了了之

[@DevilishlyVr]

they need to look into the Philippines rule sharker/cheater like they do world issues.

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

rule sharking is technically not illegal. Very tasteless and a very dick move. but technically it is aloud. cheating is a different matter

[@TerminatedAccount.]

There's literally nothing wrong with a cheeky shuffle and quite honestly people who overreact to this kind of stuff do way worse by promoting this behaviour or at least by putting it in the spotlight rather than the actual perpetrator

[@user-pf8lr1ob2l]

This guy is famous. He cheated in every TCG he played, PTCG, etc etc

[@ElFelocitaptor]

The overtrigger is just as bad as cheaters!

[@dargoid]

At this point if BSR won't do anything about this long man guy I think it's about time we as a community do something about it.

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

Don't use violence or harassment, but raise awareness. Make sure to always be the bigger person while maintain vigilance.

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

@@WorldClassCardfighters If i sat across from him, id immediately call judge, id probably tell the judge who my opponent is and what hes done and if they are going to allow him to continue then i want a dedicated judge shuffling my deck. I dont want him touching my deck at all.

[@SageTigerStar]

Came for the Vanguard...stayed for the FFXIV music. XD

[@nightmareyandere2886]

Should get perm ban for cheating

[@DontTipMe]

Shoutout to kevin ajolt nguyen, the OG cheater champ. He walked so manlong could run 😂

[@chaerul5166]

I already aware of his cheating since nov 2023 Clipped him when he play in bcs indo 2023

[@shane_king9000]

For future reference i will not let other people shuffle my deck in tornements

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

you dont get a choice. in the rules you have to. unless you can get a dedicated judge to follow you to each game and shuffle for him.

[@shane_king9000]

@@preemptivefaceplant5277 can send the like I can find it

[@Hurricanelive]

Guy deserves a lifetime ban.

[@Kayrol1990]

This is why I won't allow my opponent to shuffle my deck, doesn't matter if it a hindu shuffle or riffle shuffle or what ever. When i present my deck to be CUT, just CUT the deck. If you let your opponent to shuffle your deck, there's a slight chance that they will (not always) tries to cheat and manipulate your deck state without fail. This kind of thing happened not exclusive just to VG, it can happen in all other TCG, and it sickens me to the core.

[@truegamerking]

Shuffling also takes longer so they can stall for time with it, and there's a chance they could break your sleeves/damage your cards if they shuffle improperly

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

Technically if you dont allow your opponent to shuffle. you are technically cheating. you can not, i mean absolutely can not stop your opponent from shuffling after you manipulate the deck if you had to cut/shuffle your deck. if you do, the opponent can judge call you for potentially stacking. you will get a warning and will now be forced to let him shuffle next time you manipulate the deck. if not he can judge call you agian and then you get an auto game loss.

[@truegamerking]

@preemptivefaceplant5277 it'd be nice if they just cut, though. What is the reason they have to shuffle as opposed to cut...?

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

@@truegamerking opponent shuffling means less likely you can stack your deck. Pokemon was notorious for stacking mid where opponent would cut. There's no good answer cause cheaters find a way

[@AmineL-es3dk]

it's getting spicy

[@truegamerking]

Theres such a simple fix for this in particular. Just cut the deck. It is faster in timed tournaments and prevents this sort of thing from happening. There's no downside to enforcing a rule that the deck must be cut not shuffled

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

i mean i can cut from spot and cutting the deck doesnt mean i cant pick it up to cut it where i want to cut it. this doesnt fix the issue. also you get to shuffle/cut your deck before your opponent. who says you dont stack in anticipation of his cut place which is generally in the middle. This was a big issue in pokemon before covid. seeing as most cards that manipute the deck say shuffle. thats a big keyword and they would have to aratta the whole keyword. which wouldnt work. why? because i just fanned through my whole deck. i can now potentially count and have a general idea where and when triggers will hit. shuffling is a need in this kind of game.

[@truegamerking]

@preemptivefaceplant5277 I feel you are majorly misunderstanding. The process should always be after you search, you shuffle your own deck, then offer your opponent the opportunity to cut. You are still required to shuffle, but your opponent may specifically only cut. And shuffling cards to the middle is much less consistent than the top/bottom. You don't know exactly where a player will cut

[@alexbiersner3350]

The first clip was a clear shuffle cheat. If I see anything remotely off from my opponent shuffling my deck, I'm calling for the judge to have them shuffle the deck again. It's getting to the point where there should be a judge for every game so that whenever there's a need for a player needs to shuffle their deck, the judge can do that for them in order to stop cheaters. I know that's a ridiculous way of doing things, but the amount of cheaters in all of these different tcg's is ridiculous

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

not enough volunteers sadly

[@Sol-Kage]

Is Kai a FFXIV player?

[@Sol-Kage]

Also very well documented! Definitely proof of cheating to me. Kind of funny he still lost games despite cheating though.

[@WorldClassCardfighters]

Thank you. Yeah, thankfully he didn't get 1st place imo. And I only play FFXIV for story lol.

[@justsamxp3212]

cheating is loki kinda cringe 🗿

[@Ravenleaf182]

Can you change the title of this or keep conscious of the titles going forward? I watched this and now youtube thinks I want to watch a bunch of failed relationship videos about cheating...

[@Ravenleaf182]

at least put "cardfight vanguard" or something in the title or "bushiroad" or something to give the title something beyond what you did :S

[@pauldat123]

Dude imagine resorting to cheating in a cards game. What a low life.

[@EddricVanguard]

Half cut is forever Shuffling the deck is ban

[@laxiden1595]

I prefer 1/3 cut

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

why so you can stack your deck in anticipation of where im going to cut. no thank you. "was a big issue in pokemon before covid"

[@Yusei255]

Either you play fair, or you don't even play at all.

[@BladeRabbit]

Not sure if its funny or sad but basically every Cardfight Vanguard cheating scandal is always always shuffling/stacking.

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

not true, there was graveyard to hand cheating. its been recorded at official tournaments. they put triggers into thier hand. the biggest one was a girl in france regionals. on live people watched her put a heal trigger from the top of her graveyard to her hand. kagero could not do that at the time. think it was legion era. but there have been others.

[@vollied4865]

I think at this point bushiroad is so desperate to keep vanguard alive, theyre even willing to let blantant cheating pass 😂 theres no way anyone with more than a single braincell didnt notice this

[@goldpaladins3547]

Bruh

[@Deathcat9023]

Vanguard is a tcg that have this smell of opportunity to cheat, every tcg as their own way to cheat but this game reeks of cheaters, especially when bushiroad invented the over trigger. stacking trigger to your favor on either deck. back then when there was no ride deck people stack your deck so you cant ride your vanguard. THIS GAME SHOULD NOT BE A COMPETITIVE GAME

[@preemptivefaceplant5277]

i mean then dont play

[@Lustecom]

This is a tournament, not playing with friends. Winning is the main goal

[@FaytTheXpert]

Wow thats crazy oO why poeple cheat so Hardcore. Maybe You should start to Play this stuff digital 😂You bring You deck and than You Play vanguard online.

[@purestfight07]

Cheating? or true strength?

[@Stratos5707]

It’s cheating.

[@kuro_f_x]

Both

[@Sebastian36962]

The cheating IS his true strength

[@ProminencCore]

I knew he was cheating all along, no way someone can keep winning vanguard especially when it’s a luck game with minimal skill

[@jacobjensen7704]

Get outta here hater.

[@Zarugoza5969]

​@@jacobjensen7704 "Why are you talking?" - Kourin Tatsunagi, Cardfight!! Vanguard: Link Joker

[@fruwuitloop]

copium

[@Zarugoza5969]

@@jacobjensen7704 I apologize for my previous comment. I can't read.

[@dylan-Z-anson]

‘Luck with minimal skill’. Compared to some other games, you could say that. At face value… have you played the game?

[@FaytTheXpert]

Crazy to gear people cheat in one piece how people cheat There?

[@janwasilczuk5185]

If it was konami's game, that guy would get insta suspension for 2 years. But because bushiroad is so desperate to keep game alive, they let that slide. In my opinion the evidence is clear. He is scouting botdeck and either placing it on top or leaving bottom. It was caught multiple times on tape and its clearly enough to prove he is cheating. If it was for me, it would be straight up ban for 3 years from competetive play.