The Redemption Arc NO ONE Saw Coming...

[@LaynaRobin]

Miraculous be like: Chloé, a 14 year old bully? Irredeemable, the worst person on Earth, the evil incarnated. Let's make it seem like the enabling corrupt mayor adult father was good all along instead

[@DarkEmissary617]

Yep bc once again Astruc does what he does best, when in doubt it's Chloé fault again. Sigh he can't keep saying everything is Chloe fault. The most he got right was most of the akumatizations and the bullying, but this is seriously getting out of hand.

[@vgngolley341]

Lol facts

[@kou7191]

Even worse: let's make the manipulative, emotionally abusive, power hungry, questionably genocidal *main antagonist of the show* have more redeemable qualities than this bratty teen.

[@stefaniarusso]

​@@DarkEmissary617agree

[@ikuradress]

@@DarkEmissary617 so true.

[@Omnislash7]

It will never cease to amaze me how Astric deems Chloe as irredeemable and yet Andre has been shown to be a terrible father and a corrupt mayor who abused his power the entire series yet somehow he’s the one who is deemed to be redeemable. Hell, rather than taking responsibility for what is his fault in how Chloe turned out and acting to turn her around, he instead throws her away and chooses his step-daughter simply because it’s the easier path. Andre is a terrible human being and one reason I hate the writing on this show. With this being a children’s show, what kind of messages are these?

[@zemox2534]

Being a children's show is no fucking excuse for terrible writing!! Bloody Batman TAS is a children's show but the writing didn't insult the intelligence of the children. The writers treated the audience with respect Miraculous doesn't treat anyone with bloody respect. Not the characters or the audience!@@

[@m.v.gonzalez5575]

It tells children that they deserve the abusive treatment of their parents and they should forgive and love them anyways, and if they themselves turn out equally as bad THEY are problem and don't deserve any positive interaction This kind of writing it's why I don't let my child to watch this show anymore and I only hatewacth it thru KZbin uploads, heck I don't even watch the episodes anymore...

[@clyvetruises9587]

Astruc is thourouly irresponsible. He takes no accountability for the way people interprete his show and assumes they are just stupid instead of aknowledging his flaws as a writter. Worse, he refuses to take criticism and just casually blocks people for asking questions he doesn't like, let alone people who disagree with him.He constantly runs away from the reality that he is bad at his job and is extremely lucky Miraculous got so popular

[@shalice7784]

@@zemox2534 thought the point was that they were sending bad messages to impressionable children

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

Not only that, Andrè barely knows her step-daughter, Zoe. Second, Andrè never got Mr. Lee's permission to adopt Zoe because she is nice. It is like Andrè had stolen Zoe from Mr. Lee. What are the things that Andrè knows about Zoe or why is she a nice and better person than Chloe. How did Mr. Lee even raised Zoe and turned out to be a better person than Chloe. I know that Mr. Lee didn't spoil Zoe that much than Chloe and Mr. Lee is a better father and a better person than Andrè.

[@darkron288]

Andre is one of those characters that REALLY should have remained as a background character, just a rich dad that gave chloe everything that explained why she is a spoiled brat, maybe have him come in for comedy relief. But as the show went on to make chloe a irredeemable monster, they for some reason decided to bend over backwards to make Andre look innocent in all this, when he really isn't? He's a awful doormat of a dad i don't know whether is a poltical thing where they don't want to demonize the french goverment but it never sat right with me

[@aniocitex1131]

Now I remember who Chloe reminds me of. Princess Morebucks (I think that’s how you spell it). Rich neglectful parents, a general brat, wants to join the heroes but becomes a villain to spite them.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

​@@aniocitex1131The difference is Princess annoyed me. Chloe actually felt like a character.

[@emmypersonal4033]

For real! I've never been a fan of him having much screen time tbh

[@clyvetruises9587]

Andre is just another example of how bad of a writter Astruc is. A simple mayor shouldn't have that much power, especially not in France. Macron himself cannot even think of pulling the shit Andre does, if the show was realistic, the citizens of Paris would have dragged the heck out of him. But Astruc decided to turn off his brain and give a simple mayor the same authority as a divine monarch🙄

[@chloesouatgacha2727]

The fact that Astruc goes out of his way to prove that characters like Gabriel, Andre, and Nathalie are more redeemable than a literal child infuriates me!!! They clearly show that Chloe’s parenting has been awful, but yet Chloe gets the blame for everything!! I wouldn’t be surprised if Astruc gave Bob Roth a redemption arc before Chloe!!

[@beeruslemaridena6167]

Yup you see bob roth never really hurted anyone he just refused to pay and tried to make benefit out of people's dreams bonus he's super funny and fancy when akumatized. -Thomas Astruc probably

[@emelylassiter3523]

He's not redeeming Gabriel he's going to die! Don't worry about him

[@princesserika9899]

@@beeruslemaridena6167 Bruhh. 😐

[@redrasegarden]

Actually I’m more inclined to believe Gabriel and Natalie could be redeemed over what’s going on here.

[@unstrungbeauty7208]

@@redrasegarden Spolier alert It actually happened in the s5 finale that was leaked by one of the comment in smarty pants videos on miraculous where Gabriel has a statue of him when he died after he made the wish. Marinette for some reason decided to detransformed in front of him when she should've take him to prison. Oh and btw Adrien got sidelined in this episode poor guy....

[@kathiraray3977]

I hate how he was redeemed when he is a grown adult, but Chloe, the 13-15 year old who is a literal child, is irredeemable?

[@DZ_Mania_2024]

How do you know season 6-7 she won’t be? Astruc is supposedly not writing those.

[@kathiraray3977]

@@DZ_Mania_2024 I hope she gets redeemed, but it was said she was irredeemable and her first redemption arc was ditched. So as of yet she has been portrayed as irredeemable. But if she does get a chance in the future, I’m here for it.

[@shanenanigans27]

Why is that weird? A grown adult in his 40s can have more maturity and opportunity for change and self-reflection that a 14 year old girl would have yet to develop. I knew mean girls like Chloe in high school who are grown adults now and still haven't matured much... Maybe Chloe will become better, but this probably won't be until she is older.

[@kathiraray3977]

@@shanenanigans27 no it’s just the idea that she is irredeemable. She is a child and has a lot of development ahead of her but the writers decided to depict her as irredeemable. I’m not saying he couldn’t change or be redeemable. I’m just pointing out that she is a child.

[@vgngolley341]

Facts

[@empirestate8791]

The biggest issue with Andre's redemption arc is that it came out of nowhere. For 5 seasons Andre was portrayed as a spineless corrupt politician and a pushover who gave Chloe whatever she wanted, even if he had to abuse his authority. We didn't hear any of his backstory, nor did we see his wife exert any influence over him. There was no buildup to his redemption arc at all. Then they literally redeemed Andre in HALF AN EPISODE. For a TV series that loves to take forever to move the plot forward, this was one of the most rushed subplots I've ever seen. And I couldn't feel sympathetic to Andre after all he's done, from abusing his power to spoiling his bratty daughter.

[@nangbaby]

I think what makes it worse for me is that there actually was groundwork laid for a possible development for both Audrey and Andre as of the Season 3 final episodes. Heart Hunter made it as clear as day that both Audrey and Andre were both mutually awful towards each other and that both were not-that-great people who deserved each other. At the end of Miracle Queen, though, not only does Audrey clearly love Andre (she was acting lovestruck without the influence of an akuma) but both of them were acting as a unit. The New York United Heroez special heavily hinted that Andre and Audrey, while awful parents, were going to start working together when it came to Chloe and not let her pit them against each other to get what she wanted. They might have been bad people, but it seemed like they might try to be better parents. However, Season 4 erased that development to establish Audrey as an irredeemably bad parent and to make Andre even more hassled than he was previously, not just walked all over by his daughter and wife but Tomoe and Gabriel. Instead of following through with the development from the Season 3 finale, they just made him more of a victim, the same way they did Sabrina in Season 4 and Season 5. There was a clear path for Chloe to get "worse" *because* her parents clamped down on her and set boundaries; her turning to Lila would make more sense as a replacement if she could no longer get her way with her parents. But that would require adults take some responsibility instead of being comedic caricatures for cheap laughs. Instead the show seems to equate "suffering" with "deserving redemption" instead of using "suffering" as a tool to "further character development."

[@stefaniarusso]

​@@nangbabyagree

[@empirestate8791]

@@nangbaby Yeah, I noticed that as well. Audrey and Andre actually kissed passionately in Season 3, and it seemed like they were going to fix their relationship and discipline Chloe. The whole Bourgeois family in season 4 was far worse - Chloe became an actual psychopath, Andre took his corruption and pushover behavior to the next level, and Audrey literally became an evil witch. Honestly, it would have been a lot better if the show followed through on Chloe's development from season 2 instead of bringing Zoe (who's basically what a redeemed Chloe would be like).

[@nangbaby]

@@empirestate8791 Actually, I liked the idea of Chloe giving up on being good, because even in Season 2, there were signs that she wasn't going to make the transition from evil to good without setbacks. Marinette and Fu both let Chloe be Queen Bee because they thought that her being a superhero would give her something to work on...and it did to a degree. Yet while Chloe did show remorse and showed that she wanted to feel useful, she never understood the full impact of her initial actions or learned to want to do the right thing because it was the right thing. I admit that her fall could have been done a lot better, but I can see the reasoning behind it. My issue is from Season 4 onward, I was hoping Chloe would actually learn to be a hero and be good and to learn how to care for people, she would learn to be a villain in her own way, or she would learn to be a neutral character with her own agenda. Instead, she became the bad guys' pawn...just because....and she's also made into a "dumb blonde," something she NEVER was. I really don't understand her characterization where she's trying to get akumatized, because while she worked with Hawk Moth at the end of Season 3, in the end, he failed her, too, and abandoned her. Chloe should be mad at BOTH Ladybug and Hawk Moth. For all the problems in Revolution, at least it indicated that Chloe's first instinct, even after seizing power, was to make Monarch surrender as soon as he appeared. She had to be talked into making a deal with him, which is a step up from her past three very willing akumatizations. Likewise, the Bourgeois were really cut off development-wise, especially Audrey. There are moments in both Season 2 and Season 3 in which Audrey is not only humanized, but hinted to having more connections to the main plot. Notably in Queen Wasp, she was legitimately disappointed Marinette was late and didn't taker her offer and it was implied a lot of her nastiness is a defense mechanism (note that she did remember Marinette's name at first, proof that she *could* open her heart). Her interaction with Gabriel in that episode with that foreshadowing of "feathers" line also seemed to be a hint she might know a little more than the average adult. Finally, she was purposely shown to one of the people reacting to the temple's reappearance in Feast. That doesn't mean she necessarily knew anything, but that she also was the one to discover Gabriel teased at a potential involvement. Instead, as you mentioned, Audrey became an evil witch to everyone except Gabriel. So now Andre gets to be redeemed because he suffered under her thumb. Never mind all the people he made suffer like Principal Damocles, Officer Roger, and the school staff. Kicking Chloe out of Paris makes him a "good guy" and absolves him of all wrong according to this show's message. As far as Zoe's concerned, as much as I dislike her, I can understand why she was introduced; merchandising requires a Bee Miraculous holder and they couldn't have the Bee Miraculous sidelined for possibly an entire season while Chloe got her act together. That said, they really didn't need to create a sudden sister out of nowhere. If it was mandated that it had to be a new character with a tie to Chloe, it would have made more sense for Zoe to be a cousin. That's still a relative, but it's a lot more plausible you never heard of a cousin before than a sister, and the two could come to share a sisterly bond without the blatant retcon that Chloe was not an only child.

[@empirestate8791]

@@nangbaby Agree with most of your points. I still think Chloe's redemption should have been pursued, albeit in a better way. Perhaps she "relapsed" once and went back to her old ways, but became frustrated after Hawk Moth abandoned her as well, and she came back to the good side with the encouragement of Adrien, Marinette, and others. They could have also given Audrey some character development, and the whole Bourgeois family could have gone through some healing. There were hints at that in Season 3, and both Andre and Audrey actually passionately kissed after an akuma was defeated. I would prefer that Chloe's redemption spanned seasons 1-3, with potentially a relapse in the middle, and she became good by the end of season 3 and thus became the permanent Bee miraculous holder.

[@isadoraalvarez9767]

The fact they gave Andre a ‘redemption arc’ while Chloe remains an irredeemable villain though

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

Not only that, they gave Gabriel Angreste, a terrorist, a redemption arc while leaving Chloe irredeemable.

[@isadoraalvarez9767]

@@michaelsarmiento3057 the fact they tried to convince me Gabe changed his heart and died a hero is actually dog crap

[@lunamelody2025]

I think Chloe's redemption will happen during season 6. If Lilla is going to be the main antagonist for that season, then it makes more sense. Think about it, Chloe was definitely power hungry, but Lilla brought it out and she used Chloe's desire against her. Andre I could tell was not all bad since the first season. I could tell deep down he was really a softy, but he had to be the doormat to Chloe and Audrey. That's why he had to be stern a lot when Chloe was around because he would've felt the wrath of others. That's why he was open to Zoe immediately. Maybe he knew Zoe's childhood and maybe Zoe's dad was the only good influence she had in life before he was gone. Plus, he even confessed to Gabriel that he only wanted to be mayor because that's what his family wanted him to be. As for Audrey, I'm giving her benefit of the doubt for now because after Revelation, I think she and Andre both were ticked off of Chloe's behavior. Now, maybe Audrey is a bit too strict, but it shows Chloe looked up to her more than Andre. Plus, I wouldn't be surprised if she was the bad parent when Zoe was with her dad. As for the family teaching part of the overall story of the show, it makes more sense now revealing Andre really is a victim like Zoe. Let's take the Dupen-Chang family for example, they really did their best to be positive role-models to Marinette and keep their relationship solid despite the times they've had issues with their differences. The Couffaine family started off with a VERY rocky start. Jagged finally got his career started but then he was forced to make a decision; either be a bad parent and cause his issues with Anarka to worsen, or go off on his own. In the end, he did leave, but he did regret missing out on being a dad, hence why he used his mourning for his music. Eventually Jagged and Anarka reconciled and wanted to be good parents for the twins. The Bourgeios and Lee families were probably an example of high power isn't always paradise. Which ironically makes sense because some families in high society irl do sometimes struggle with jobs and parenting at the same time, and it can take a toll. Zoe wanted to be an actress but she always struggled because she had to constantly put up a facade and hide her true feelings. The same with Andre, he had to hide his true feelings when he was mayor because he wanted to do the right thing and impress his family, but the pressure got to him and he fell apart. I think the family dynamics on this show make more sense than just doing plain and obvious symbolism because some people can personally relate to at least 1 family or 2.

[@smart.but.stupid]

​@@lunamelody2025it's not going to happen, Astruc obviously hates her waaaay too much.

[@45darkrai]

Honestly completely convenient with the fact he pays more attention to his stepdaughter, that happens to come into his life with the bonus of her having no baggage. If anything, it’s a lazy way for him to choose her over his actual biological daughter he spent enabling, not to mention the obvious point of the creator's hate boner for Chloe. But yeah, he, as well as the list of characters in this series, are horribly executed.

[@marocat4749]

If he tried to make up, he would try to gradually try tell chloe to chill and set her boundaries, not enable her. Plus in a better show, it would end with zoe realizing what a terrible person he is, and does try to get to chooe with solidarity. In a better show.

[@brainflash1]

Can't really blame him for favoring Zoe over Chloe, since Zoe is better in every conceivable way.

[@HuaMoa-px9px]

​@@brainflash1excuse me.. .?

[@Commenter839]

@@brainflash1 Yeah, it's too bad Chloe couldn't have grown up to be as patient and understanding as her sister. I've gotta say, whoever raised her must be a horrible parent!

[@Arella17]

​@@brainflash1He's the one who raised Chloe.

[@Yoshixandir]

He’s just like a real life politician. He runs away from the problems he created

[@roxirock5455]

He doesnt even fix the mess he made. Chloe leaves with her mom for New Yourk without him.

[@CaptinBen10]

He allowed himself to be stolen by Zoe from Chloe. The only reason Andre wants Zoe around is because when he sees Zoe he sees himself and now that he has the daughter he always wanted he doesn't want Chloe as a daughter anymore. That is the worst thing a farther can do, is to dump his child for someone he thinks is better.

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

I wonder what kind of a person Mr. Lee is. Was he a better parent to Zoe Lee than Andrè was to Chloe. Was he a better person than Andrè. If so, how did Mr. Lee even raised Zoe to be nice and a better person than Chloe? Also, what kind of a person Mr. Lee is and what is her relationship with Zoe Lee. Second, since Audrey is toxic and abusive, do you think Zoe Lee takes after her father, Mr. Lee, because Zoe Lee is very nice while Audrey is toxic and abusive, meaning Zoe doesn't take after Audrey and Andrè Burgouise.

[@CaptinBen10]

@@michaelsarmiento3057 TBD (if ever).

[@Lisey_Ann]

you're so right about this. i don't think andre was redeemed at all.. it seems like he is even more irredeemable than chloe. if astruc is known to be a liar, i hope he's lying about chloe being irredeemable bc he doesnt want to spoil. astruc IS known for being a troll bc he doesnt want to spoil the story

[@liamdalemon1525]

Chloe may have been a jerk, but a father who disowns their own flesh and blood to raise someone else's child... that's just sickening!

[@CaptinBen10]

@@liamdalemon1525 That is why Andre and Zoe disgust me and honestly not setting a good example for the little kids who watch this show. A man who dumps his child to raise another. Chloe will be back to try to set up shop again.

[@libandualeh7621]

Worst thing is people like him and maybe even Gabe will be seen as redeemable when they were the worst parents while Chloe, a literal teen without proper parenting is seen as the scum of the earth.

[@phoenixshadow6633]

Andre once more runs away from the problem he causes rather than solves them.

[@hearts4Isaa]

Honestly, I'm not surprised after they ruined Chloe's redemption arc, of course, they're gonna give it to somebody else who never deserved it. And I agree with what you said Andre was the whole reason why Chloe turned out to be so nasty sure Audrey left them and had a child with another man in another city but he still should've raised her better. On top of that in the newer episodes he just quits being the mayor and leaves telling his daughter and his wife that they are awful somewhat disowns Chloe and leaves with his stepdaughter. So yep definitely a horrible person and parent that didn't deserve any redemption arc.

[@azupi6385]

Spoiler After Andre, they give the redemption Gabriel agreste aka terorist and power hungry man

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

​@@azupi6385Don't. Remind. Me. That finale by the way is this Saturday.

[@snooker7107]

The problem is the writers have an idea for a plotline, but then don't follow up on it. They just don't know how to handle multiple character arcs. Thats the reason for the many inconsistencies. It feels like they just come up with these things as they are going. Its not the well planned out show, Thomas makes it seem to be.

[@marocat4749]

Yeah, just note chloes dad does now set boundaries and tells her off and grow up, and maybe if you want to show him grow, show him her. Meanwhile dont give the one who coulfäd have that chloe none.

[@snooker7107]

@@marocat4749 Its the same with Sabrina. Like she stole things from Marinette in season 1 without problems. But suddenly now its a problem and they want to redeem her.

[@kou7191]

They most definitely made things as they go. Seasons 1 to 3 might as well be chopped down and compressed into a single season since most of what happened in them don't even seem to be canon anymore, and the "real plot" started in season 4.

[@nicolas._.2294]

​@@snooker7107yea true

[@roxirock5455]

I feel it's the same with the charms Ladybug gives out. Sure they have a purpose now, but they still seem unneeded.

[@hafsagulizar7286]

He is a bastard that always makes sure he dosen't look bad even on the cost of his own daughter (He raised and turned into what she is now) They gave him a redemption arc but I'm seariously now havin it And hope you feel better man thx for posting

[@josiecroix]

It'd be ironically funny if Astruc portrays Andre's "redemption arc" as how he portrays his own innocence. "I don't deserve any criticism, because it's all so-and-so's fault..." Then comes the supposed childhood bully Chloe was inspired by who has nothing to do with him beyond those years... But it's still somehow their fault, totally. Honestly, the resemblance is uncanny. But that's just a theory! A sarcastic but kinda-raises-some-queations theory! Aaaaand cuuuut... this show, off of television, please.

[@Dandelions479]

The thing is, HE'S the one that made Chloe this way. He's the one that spoiled her, he's the one that fired people for her, he's the one that did nothing to correct her behavior. I wouldn't even call it a redemption arc. It's not like he corrected his actions. You can't claim to break from someone's influence when you were the one that gave her the power to put ANYONE under that influence in the first place.

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

I would like to see Mr. Lee making an appearance in Miraculous and show Andrè on who is the better parent.

[@Dandelions479]

​​@@michaelsarmiento3057o, I know, I'm uncultured... But who's Mr. lee?

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

@@Dandelions479 Mr. Lee is Zoe Lee's biological father.

[@Dandelions479]

@@michaelsarmiento3057 OH! Duh 🤦‍♀️ Thanks for clarifying, I had a very stupid moment in which I forgot Zoe existed.

[@martajevsejenko7187]

She doesn't listen to him though, she only cares about his money and status. She wanted to be accepted by her mother, and audrey did accept her but only because she saw how mean she was to marinette, no? Myb I'm thinking wrong..

[@Hanin_Isa]

So, Andre is getting away scott free for not only being a sleazy politician, but also a bad father? Well, I suppose it makes sense by Miraculous logic 🤷‍♀️ Honestly, it just pisses me off that they're basically saying: "Well, Andre gave EVERYTHING for his daughter, but she's just an ungrateful brat that will NEVER get better." Yeah? It is because of him spoiling her rotten that she turned out this way! Don't try to pass off the blame from him! He's equally as culpable as Audrey for how their daughter turned out to be! What's worse is that this guy knew that his wife cheated on him shortly after she gave birth to their daughter, and yet, the show paints him as this good guy because he's acting as a good father to his wife's illegitimate child instead of trying to owe up to his mistakes as a parent when raising Chloe. And yes, Zoe isn't older than Chloe. In 'Heart Eater', the Bouregois couple were 'celebrating' their 20th anniversary, and both Chloe and Zoe are teenagers. So, yeah...

[@Sky_901]

So lemme get this straight... instead of being a man/father helping his own child that he made into a spoiled brat due to his poor parenting, he decided to disown her, send her off to her mother who is a woman that definitely doesn't care about her and make a new start with her sister who isn't even his biological daughter. Chloe might actually become a psychopath when she's older

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

As usual the intention didn't make it through, in Revolution he grabs Chloe and says he's going to correct his mistakes as a father, but then leaves her with Audrey which will only make her have more control over Chloe and would probably never let her see Andre again, so for us it really seems like he just wanted to get rid of Chloe instead of fixing things because that won't fix anything, it will only make Chloe worse.

[@Glitch_Shift]

He legit said “aight im gonna be a better father. Bye daughter im going to the nicer child that isn’t mine but related to you”

[@Jellygirl313]

Not to mention it makes Andre look worse just as well. Redemption can only work if you put in the effort to fix your own mistakes. André simply ridding himself of Chloé doesn't fix the problem.

[@borikidor]

To be fair the way Chloe was writtwn there is no way she could be any worse.

[@cacaumassipanoficial6203]

@@borikidor she sure can, Audrey herself says she will take control of Chloe's life, so she will grow up to be even more terrible, especially if she gets some kind of power like a position of influence in a job that affects people.

[@jomariepieters4194]

​@@Glitch_Shift Yes. Thank you.🎉

[@blackumbrazozzino1257]

This is not the redemption arc we deserve; this is not the redemption arc we need; this is the redemption arc we get...

[@clyvetruises9587]

What I hate about Miraculous is that Ass-trunk thinks his audience is stupid, casually gaslights them, and is too immature to take criticism. That man-child (who ironically looks like a big baby with a beard) doesn't understand that when randos collectively gather to tell you you don't understand your own characters, then you've done a damn bad job. Marinette IS a stalker, he blocked people who adressed the issue and then had the nerves to come up with that ridiculous flashback to try and guilt trip us into thinking it was justified. He reproduced the pattern of a disfunctional family with an abusive mom, an irresponsible dad and a child who suffered the consequences of it yet is hellbent in trying to manipulate us into thinking that this child, product of her environment, is the cause of it all. In his blind reproduction of patterns, he noticed he was giving Chloe a redemption arc, then freaked out and retconned it. He poofed Zoe into existence like a gosh darn new life form and tried SO SO hard to make us love her so we'd hate Chloe for mistreating her. He is a terrible writter, his lack of accountibility transpires in his work and his reactions on the socials. I am so done with this show

[@asudebirtane8243]

I agree with all my heart

[@ashleyyoung796]

It just frustrates me that Astruc decided to ruin his own show like this and refuses to man up and take criticism.🤦‍♀️

[@dariusbrown7870]

He wasn’t even the one giving her a redemption. Other writers were.

[@33pandagamer]

I always found it odd how he treated Chloe, he acted like he was afraid of her, his own daughter. Like what parent would be afraid of their own child? He raised her, or at the very least took care of her, he's the one with the authority and power. What's Chloe going to do if he says no, call her mom? So what if she dose, her mom doesn't even live in the same country as them, she doesn't even care about Cloe all that much, and there's no way she would do anything meaningful to help Chloe out. He has no reason to be afraid of his own daughter.

[@nathenewendzel7806]

I don't think it's about a wicked woman pulling the strings. He made all his choices. It sounds like a warning of what an unhealthy crush can lead a person to do if they don't keep it in check and refuse to move on after rejection. It wasn't all Audrey's fault despite her being pretty terrible. It was his repeated choice of response to her and her actions and his lustful desire for her. Chloe ended up developing her bad habits out of him treating her with the pampering and spoiling to appease her as he gave Audrey. She saw what kind of actions of her mother triggered this response. She started shaping herself into what she thought her mother wanted to win her love just like he had constantly been doing to himself.

[@nangbaby]

While I see what you mean, at the same time, when Andre does realize he needs to change his behavior, he changes it in ways to extricate himself from the situation instead of taking responsibility as a parent to at least try to do better by Chloe. Yes, Chloe is not a prepubescent teen, but what Andre did wasn't set boundaries but instead continued the same negligent trend of pawning off his problem to someone else. If Andre really wanted to redeem himself, he would have left on that plan WITH Audrey and Chloe and made sure that Zoe had a place to stay in Paris.

[@writer_man5318]

@@nangbaby Uh, I hate to tell you this but you just put Chloe over Zoe. The truth is neither Audrey or Chloe has respect for Andre. Even if he left with them, it wouldn't amount to anything as his words and actions have no weight to them. He can't punish Chloe because she won't respect his punishments and he can't work with Audrey because she doesn't respect him at all. Other than Zoe, just about everything in his life imploded. He lost his friends, he lost wife, he gave up being the mayor knowing he was corrupt and awful, and his biological daughter has no respect for him.

[@nangbaby]

​@@writer_man5318 In this case, yes, I would put Chloe over Zoe because Chloe is the child he had custody of and "raised" from her formative years. I am not a Chloe stan. She is a privileged racist bully without any genuine empathy. It still doesn't change that the apple didn't fall far from the tree and that she's still a minor. It might not be possible to change her behavior at this point but as her father, it's irresponsible for Andre to not even try. While it's good for him to be there for Zoe, not only is he not Zoe's father but he can't suddenly be expected to be a good father figure when he's a terrible father figure for his own child. Even if Zoe is the perfect stepchild and has a good relationship with Andre, his first duty should be to the daughter that has been in his life since her birth. Yes, everything in his life imploded. One of the main themes of this show is that even when things go wrong, there's always a way set things right. How is shoving off his daughter to London while adopting his stepdaughter making things better? Even if it's revealed Mr. Lee is a terrible father who makes Gabriel, Tomoe, and Colt look like saints, it doesn't change that Andre Bourgeois is a corrupt, self-serving man who has done nothing to try to make up for the damage he caused. With Chloe, he's just sweeping a problem under the rug.

[@mysticzen4825]

I feel like what Astruc hates about Chloe is the fact that she became likeable, back at Season 1 he used to say he likes that version of Chloe, but ever since Season 2 it seem he used everything in his power to bring Chloe down. Although I'm not a Chloe fan, I feel like her Father getting redeemed instead of her is pure Injustice

[@roxirock5455]

Yea, and it's so stupid too. If you don't want people to like her, just don't make her a superhero. Just don't show those moments when she has potential of not being just a mean girl. Why did he do that? Now the show is trying so hard to make her seem iredimble that it's forced. And even worse, they're giving redemptions to characters who did not deserve them, who did not change or grow, just to even it out. It sends a terrible message to the young audience.

[@dariusbrown7870]

@@roxirock5455 He didn’t write the episodes of redemption, thus he tried to set things back to HIS status quo. “This was all planned” my ass.

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

Joke's on him I liked that Chloe too...Season-1 was just an I hate to love you and love to hate you kinda thing instead

[@KittMouri]

...yeah...I agree. Mind you, I am not OPPOSED to giving him a redemption arc, but he needs to EARN IT!! This was NOT earned and DEFINITELY not deserved! Chloe is no better, but at least she is a CHILD!! It would have been fairer to give her the chance to do better AND she was on the track to doing just that more than once...then that whole sum of plot/character development abandoned ship for NO REASON! Chloe could have been redeemed ESPECIALLY considering that you had LILA to take her place as a MUCH BETTER villain! SERIOUSLY! Lila was more cunning that Gabe...the PRIMARY VILLAIN OF THE ENTIRE SERIES!! Give me a break, dude! This is just bad writing. 🤷‍♀️

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

At least Chloe tried to fix her mistakes

[@stefaniarusso]

​@@Kakuyawolf3456yeah I agree

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

I wouldn't say Lila is a much better villian... they just have everyone go stupid when she's around

[@nathenewendzel7806]

So a selfish man that has been engaging in unhealthy catering and spoiling of the woman he had a crush on and went on to marry and his daughter to constantly win them over and prevent them from leaving him permanently and keep them happy all because the man couldn't accept no for an answer.

[@cinnamontree681]

Imagine yourself in Chloe's place. You literally don't know how to be better than what your parents showed you(more precisely, she tried but the creators erased it) , I mean, seriously, what do you expect from a child/teenager? Her parents are literally one of the most terrible people, but at the same time each of them is rich and if you think about it, they don't even have to complain about life. If you see that your parents behave like this, but get everything in life, won't the child copy it? Children need to be taught the difference between bad and good. But now your loved ones have literally turned on you, although they behaved just as badly (even worse) than Chloe. They judge a 13-15-year-old girl, but they let go of everything that other adults have done? Yes, Chloe does bad things, but why is she the only one who gets what she deserves? Her father makes the strangest decisions as mayor, Marinette is literally a stalker and she is the main character, but we going to judge one teenager in Paris?

[@fluffystar1]

The fact that GABRIEL has basically been redeemed by the writers makes me not question the stupid things this show has done now. 😒

[@Jack_is_attacking]

They just wanted to get rid of Chloe somehow 😒 But yeah, it's absolute bs

[@mercofrevenge1]

After this, could we hop on the Andre the Ice Cream Man hate train next?

[@azupi6385]

Yeah i hope so,i really hates that stupid good for nothing ice cream man. I even feel want to laugh when Chloe force him to close his ice cream shop

[@mercofrevenge1]

@azupi6385 her only good act as mayor of Paris

[@emcat52]

Chloe is 14. No one is the same person as they were when they were 14. If you're rich and your child is a piece of shit at 14 you use your money to get them a therapist so they can grow into a well adjusted adult.

[@lotusbloom6800]

😂😂😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@vicenteisaaclopezvaldez2450]

Thomas @ teenage girl: 👹👊💥💪💣💢👾💢🔫🔫🔫💀👋👏👏 Thomas @ corrupt politician: 😊

[@ajstudios9210]

Jail would have been preferable for André's arc.

[@otakutalks1951]

A heavy pinch of salt? Bruh anything with him needs a block of salt

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

I don't think even Kalkki would touch the salt lick... It be to salty for her

[@ikuradress]

Astruc himself admitted that he hates Chloe (a character he literally created). Trying to prove to us viewers that Andre is a "good character" and not to blame, he puts all the blame on Chloe's shoulder. I mean, he keeps trying to convince viewers that even though Monarch akumatises innocent people every day and abuses his child, he is indeed a "sympathetic villain." And it seems he can't forgive a teenage girl (about 15 years old) even though she hasn't done anything as bad as Gabriel, Andre or Natalie. Sure, she took control of an entire city and abused everyone who disrespected her, but she's a CHILD unlike Andre who has been abusing the citizens of Paris for about 15 years. Throughout her entire childhood, Chloe would get everything she wanted simply because her father (Andre) wasTOO BORED to raise her properly. By giving her everything, he completely destroyed her personality and made her believe that everyone should obey her and accept her trash behavior. When she (by abusing and imprisoning the people of Paris) expressed how she was raised by her father, she took ALL the blame for Andre's actions. What made things worse is that her father instead of realizing this and trying to raise her properly from now on or try to talk to her, he just decided to ban her from Paris, AGAIN because he was TOO BORED to care enough about her. The excuse that he did what he did because he loves Chloe is bull**t.

[@sweetypsycho4895]

I'll never let my kids even find out Miraculous existed

[@Thispotatolikekpop]

Notice that hes only trying to be a good father once a child, that he didnt raise , is thrusted into his life and is nicer than his real daughter, who i need to mention, is the one he raised. Its like he doesnt know how to be a parent. He doesnt put any of the effort in, instead he takes care of one who has already grown and is alot easier for him to handle.

[@dariusbrown7870]

If season 6 rolls around they need to show how bad his parenting is.

[@FeligamiAdrizoeSworaDooplivian]

Andre never really was a character I liked. Him getting a redemption over his daughter just feels really icky to me.

[@Cailan_Mors]

Andre feels like he's the president of France rather than the mayor of Paris

[@Insertusernamerighthere]

I agree, it feels like Astruc delt with some mean kid in high school and decided to create a character like them just to harm the character. The mayor is super corrupt but only because of Chloe smh. When Audrey visited she abused Chloe and this man didn’t bat an eye or comfort his daughter. He created a monster and abandoned ship when he got a chance. I really hope someone in the show has the good sense to look this man up for his crimes and have Zoe live with someone else but I doubt that will happen.

[@aradcohen4309]

I think astruc said on twitter that he based chloe off of a childhood bully of his

[@kamilslup7743]

andre is truly a politician, push the deserved hate to him over to someone else

[@amberpasta9379]

It’s amazing how horribly they can write the story and characters…. At this point I just watch to see how bad it gets.. it’s like a train wreck and you can’t look away

[@ashleyyoung796]

More like a train smashing into cars on a train track.🚘🚘🚄 Another season means more train wrecks caused by Astruc himself.😕

[@enricomartinelli9159]

... and a redemption arc no one wanted, either.

[@dragoness3322]

People shouldn't forget it's both parents who make achild who they are.

[@charlesgray4378]

To make it even worse, He likes Zoe... because other people did the difficult job of raising her. It's amazing how this show praises abusers and puts all the blame on their kids. Chloe... is exactly what her parents made her. (but in General, about 99 percent of the adults in Miraculous Ladybug are terrible, terrible people.)

[@jupiterlantern2601]

Y'all, don't forget that a lietral deadbeat dad gets more sympathy form the show too😬

[@Bunny-bk4uv]

I’d like to point out that at 9:01 Chloe sees her parents being affectionate with each other and is disgusted with it probably because they aren’t affectionate with each other a lot even when she was younger. This can effect her own life and her lack of affectionate to ppl too

[@brainflash1]

A bit of a tangent, but Gabe isn't being a villain for anyone but himself. He doesn't actually care about Adrien because he's already written off this timeline. He wants to reset reality back to before he lost his wife, so nothing he's done since then counts. In his mind, nobody in his current timeline is real, except maybe Nathalie.

[@roxirock5455]

Yea, he justifies it by saying he's doing it for Adrien and Emily, but really it has been only about himself for a long time. Adrien was ok with Nathalie becoming part of the family and it's dealing with his mom's death really well for a teenager. Sorry "disappearance", not death. Emily has said in videos that she just wishes that Adrien would be looked after and cared for. It's only Gabriel that can't accept the reality, that he has been defeated by teenagers and he is only thinking of himself. It the first episode of season 5 he had the chance to help his wife, but instead he decided to fight with Ladybug.

[@darriongeorge5137]

I'm all good for a character being irredeemable. Not everyone can change, but the problem with chloe is that they gave us development in the beginning but made it seem like it was nothing. Either keep her development progression or don't put any

[@dariusbrown7870]

She showed the ability to change and thus she isn’t irredeemable, I don’t know why that is so hard for Astruc to understand?

[@michaelreilly6874]

IMO, good writers would have given Chloe a redemption arc while having Lila as the unredeemable one. That way you can show that not everyone wants to change for the better while also not writing off anyone who isn't born perfect.

[@fatherplatypus2316]

I have a new fear that thomas is actually an abusive parent and he's trying to justify abuse through the show

[@Life_Universe_Everything]

He is pathetic manchild

[@themasterprocrastinator4933]

Eh, I doubt it. Just terrible writing with terrible morals.

[@sheriasha18]

What's worse is that he is giving my personality type a bad name!

[@elinasakura]

More like the Redemption Arc NO ONE Wanted🤣

[@snooker7107]

😂

[@Mebro-m6d]

I actually prefer Lila, a character who I think better as a villain, getting redemption arc than this man. At least it's acceptable. And she is a teenager. I hope she is a teenager.

[@vladdreemurr40]

​@@Mebro-m6d nope! No redemption to Lila! At least Aundre has the potential to this arc (but it happened so quickly that we didn't see that coming 😂) but Lila wants to be a villian

[@Mebro-m6d]

@@vladdreemurr40 I hope they don't give her a redemption. She is the only good villain in the show. She is not have smooth brainitis, she is more than just a bully, and she is not what the hell Felix is. I love Felix, but what the hell he is doing in the show? He want the rings, and he get them in S5 E-18-19. Tell Marinette the secrets and... he is a normal holder now. I just want to say that if Lila get a redemption is make me angry, but not as much as Andre's redemption. I don't want any of this characters getting a redemption. Edit: I change my mind. Withouth Lila, there is no villain remain. Lila's redemption is deffinetly forever times worse.

[@chipsandfish1829]

He is an horrible character. Parents are supposed to be the ones educating children. Apparently for Astruc, it's not the case... A 15 years old kid being evil isn't her parents' fault... Yeah the man was a doormat, useless and allowed her to become spoiled. He is responsible and that ending is disgusting... What is the message? You can get away from your parental duties and adopt someone else when you failed at educating one child? Come on !!

[@DarkEmissary617]

Ikr when a child acts horribly and has poor etiquette leaves the parents accountable for their behavior. As a reference in the show goes thats not how it's done!

[@raymondmaciel4047]

@@DarkEmissary617 Oh come on, he's not that bad.

[@brainflash1]

Oh... you're saying *astruc* doesn't think its the parent's fault.

[@ozvuchkibilla]

that also happens irl, unfortunately

[@kawaiiblossom8278]

Chloe is also grossly uneducated despite her father having the funds for tutors and lessons She can’t even pronounce Democracy

[@eleanasairpodsxx]

Before S5: Well, Y’know at least we got a consistent villain. After S5: Oh wait-

[@lolopiner8619]

Chloe mayor is for me the dumbest plot point of the history

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

Not only that, Chloe is too young to be mayor. She is what! 14! This situation is similar to how Tucker becoming mayor in Danny Phantom episode, Phantom Planet, after Danny saves the world from the Desasteroid. Also, some viewers forget that Tucker is corrupted by power when he gets hold of power.

[@Goatnagi17]

Andre haters unite

[@playlistsforbordem]

This brings me back to my theory that Astruc based Chloe on some real life school bully of his and when people started sympathizing with a clearly abused kid he could not let it go and tried to double down so he can keep his weird anger towards this person. Like let your characters grow out of your grief? That's what writing is for dude? The whole show is starting to feel mean-spirited because some grown man can't let go of a grudge he had against someone from decades ago.

[@esayem7746]

YES! I knew I wasn't crazy in sensing a shift in the ideals of the show and even in the fandom. People have just become so vindictive and mean spirited and it quickly becomes a toxic atmosphere for a show that is SUPPOSED to be uplifting for kids.

[@ashleyyoung796]

​@@esayem7746All he needs to do is get some therapy because that's not healthy for him to project it onto his own show. Is he really trying to teach kids on how to be mean-spirited and hold a grudge or what?

[@Yoshixandir]

If that’s the case, how petty is astruc? For all we know, what if this female bully all she did was say no to him or not praise his ego? Astruc has a fragile ego and if someone doesn’t praise his “genius” he always has a tantrum

[@ashleyyoung796]

@@Yoshixandir He must've projected that behavior onto Cat Noir because I'm starting to see a pattern here. I didn't know about Astruc's strange issues until now and you're right, he is petty. He really needs to grow up and go see a therapist about his issues.

[@RedDeadSpider343]

One parent who abused his powers as Mayor and spoiled his daughter gets redeems but not Chloe. This cowardly Mayor should be punishes for all the shenanigans that Paris gone through since his sides with his own daughter rather than the people like firing the cop after he refuse to arrest someone that accused of stealing Chloe's purse. Also why would he send Chloe to her neglectful mother who forgot her existence. Great parents, am I right?

[@theaboveaveragefangirl]

The redemption could've worked if instead of him being the leashed dog that he is and "redeeming" him by ditching the daughter he RAISED, have him be a spineless POS, then realize what he is and the fact that it's HIS fault that Chloe turned out the way she did, and raise Chloe the right way. Its so infuriating that the show blatantly ignores that Andre was her primary carer and instead acts like it's not his fault Chloe is a brat.

[@shinneth4859]

Not sure my first comment with through, apparently YT thought it was not abiding by guidelines or whatever, even though my focus was solely on this subject matter. But I wanted to make sure to thank you for this video, Smarty. It's very cathartic and a subject that needs to be talked about more because this is honestly the most evil thing they've done in the show - mostly because of how the narrative goes out of its way to portray it all as a GOOD thing! Because yeah, this very season Chloe said her dad taught her to "blame all your mistakes on your predecessor" - so even when Andre deigns to, like, actually SPEAK to the daughter he usually only speaks with through cash and credit cards, the "wisdom" he imparts is objectively terrible and proves Audrey isn't the only toxic negative influence in Chloe's upbringing. Like really, it's no debated whether or not Chloe needs to face the consequences of her actions: she absolutely does. But her entire FAMILY should be in the same boat, and really, they just aren't. If the events of Miracle Queen didn't put a dent in Audrey's PR, Revolution won't either. So Audrey gets to go off and do what she did before, only now she's now the Gabriel to Chloe's Adrien and has unmitigated power to ruin her life. I give it a week before she "fires" her daughter and kicks her out into the slums of NYC. And no one's going to do anything about it. It's clearly no sweat off Andre's back. He gets a perfect daughter (who legally he should have no right to), gets to quit being in the job he hates, can do whatever he wants, and never face repercussions for his many horrendous actions as mayor. The series proved he can be a tyrant perfectly well without his wife's or daughter's influence, after all. All this backstory he was given in season 5 feels like a VERY last-minute excuse for Astruc to insist Andre's just an innocent victim in all this when the entire show says otherwise. Also, as a person, just what good is he? What did he ever see in Audrey? Unlike the other corrupt adults, we aren't given any reason to believe Audrey was even remotely desirable beyond her monetary value. Andre clearly wasn't arranged to be with her - his simping proves as much, as well as him changing his name. So all that tells us is that Andre's a terrible judge of character. I really wish they'd just gotten divorced back in season 3 and be done with this, because I swear we gained nothing from them and Chloe staying together for two extra seasons if they were ultimately gonna divorce anyway. Andre's redemption as a whole just sends a terrible message to viewers of any age. It's unreal that Astruc really, unironically thought this was the best way to cap off these characters. And the fact that he's disappointed over finding out that the most disturbing parts of the script (basically the divorce being done on-screen and Andre saying he's taking custody of Zoe because he literally "likes her best", and has no second thoughts about sending Chloe off to be trapped with her biggest abuser) were cut from the final product... I mean, despite being cut, it might as well be canon. Astruc feels that strongly about it; that it was "integral to the story". A rare example of TV execs actually doing something good by cutting that part of the script behind Astruc's back. It almost seems like even the normally-corrupt higher-ups looked at the full scene and realized how messed up it would be to put that on TV. Andre deserves no happiness as far as I'm concerned. Thanks for the video, Smarty. Really made my day.

[@betatoadstool]

The Andre redemption can work as a fake out redemption and have him be a villain. I know this won’t happen in the show but it’s something I think would be cool

[@Rossweise]

Hey, fun fact (don't know if they mention this in the episode, because I have to catch up, but): Its illegal to build sky scrapers in Paris because the underground is full tunnels, both old catacombs and the sewer, it you try to build something that is heavy, it WILL SINK!!

[@nas0518]

Talking Cricket: YOU'RE HORRIBLE! YOU'RE AN IRREDEEMABLE MONSTER! *Talking Cricket points at Andre*

[@EchoesAct5-SlamJam]

-Andre hate gang rise up

[@cookies3353]

He as a grown men emotionally neglected a 14 years old child but now he is redeemed? Every day i'm more confused with the writers decissions

[@jennahaddadin5659]

Get well soon, Smarty Pants ❤! And get lots of rests. And I agree with every single statement said: this "redemption arc" feels unearned. Especially considering that Andre abdicated his position as mayor and left with his stepdaughter is just baffling. And his backstory of changing his name and trying to impress Audrey didn't really justify his actions. What baffles me even more is that the fact that the writers redeem Andre, but they claim that Chloe, who's a teenager, is irredeemable and make her into a heartless monster. Unbelievable! How bad is this show's writing?!

[@dariusbrown7870]

I like to imagine myself seeing the plane fly away thinking “Why didn’t you ship her off when she sided with Hawkmoth dumbass? Would’ve saved all of Paris the favor.” Also the show’s writing is very bad it seems as even Audrey seemed to be getting better in season three. What in the actual fuck?

[@KelShu]

Thomas Astruc's priorities of redemption needs some serious readjusting

[@DarkEmissary617]

Ya know what is insane? This actually could have worked if they actually were thinking of it from the start. Malediktator was a great ep where it could have began. Let Andre vent at how le let everything get this bad, wonder how his life has gotten to this point. Cmon astruc show me these struggles don't let everything's have to be read between the lines. This show can be seriously frustrating with how it executes character development.

[@flowercrown-eevee]

It kinda sucks how much Astric HATES Chloe. It honestly just makes him seem very pathetic tbh. Like imagine hating a cartoon character who is literally a child THAT YOU CREATED so much. You can tell that he has some issues he never worked out in his youth.

[@ashleyyoung796]

He definitely needs some therapy. A whole LOT of therapy instead of projecting all of his problems in a cartoon show.🤦‍♀️

[@Monty2289]

I wouldn't be surprised if there was a mean girl type like Chloe he used to know as a teenager and Chloe is just effigy for all of scorn

[@chillswany]

@@Monty2289That’s actually what happened, he said it himself Chloe is based on a girl he knew

[@BabitaKumari-hk9ci]

@@Monty2289 I thought that only🤣🤣🤣

[@BabitaKumari-hk9ci]

@@chillswany really, okay then.

[@Cosmic_Espeon]

AssTruck isn't the clown, he's not the entire circus, he's the whole goddamn carnival.

[@Kakuyawolf3456]

That's an insult to Circus's and carnival's .

[@jackmist]

​@@Kakuyawolf3456 he's an entire youtube shitpost compilation.

[@ItsArcticVision]

The way I see it is in s5 Andre suddenly has an epiphany about how him spoiling his daughter has turned her into the person she is, which would be fine if he actually accepted the fact that he’s massively to blame for her behaviour and if he attempted to reform Chloe, but how SPINELESS DOES THIS MAN HAVE TO BE TO ALLOW CHLOE TO JUST CONTINUE DOING WHATEVER SHE WANTS, like taking over the city (which is immensely stupid), and then he just throws her away!? Basically abandoning her in a similar manner to what her mum did!? HE DOESNT DO ANYTHING OR SAY ANYTHING TO TRY AND FIX WHAT HE HAS CAUSED AND THINKS SENDING HIS DAUGHTER AWAY FIXES THINGS!? Anyway, rant over… I hope zag brings Chloe back in s6 and redeems her.

[@michaelsarmiento3362]

Also, I would like to see Zag introducing Zoe Lee's biological father and have him meet Andrè and confront him about his parenting decisions.

[@Sean-wv7wl]

IMO, here’s what they could’ve done to make the whole Andre redemption a little more east to swallow: After Chloe loses, Andre uses this opportunity to tell her things will drastically change from now on in an attempt to be a better parent. Audrey then intervenes and tells Andre and Chloe she’s taking her because she doesn’t want Chloe to be further raised as a ‘loser’ and threatens Andre of making his life miserable given he isn’t a mayor anymore. This way it makes at least look like he was at least trying to turn things around rather than not taking responsibility for Chloe’s upbringing

[@chloeeng6811]

Yeah that would be perfect

[@CriticoGaming2]

Miraculous is literally a whole joke. In the previous episodes, Chole was somehow president. Even though a person under 18 can't even vote, let alone be mayor is just physically impossible. Mircaulous deserves an oskar for bad writing. Of all the horrible things Andre has done, he somehow is "redeemable" to the writers? Tell me why. And to Chole she is "irredeemable" even though he abuses his power, did terrible things and the writer makes it seem like the wife and the daughters fault. Guess what? The horrible things was execused bc he did that for audrey. This man is literally a grown man, he could just say "NO" or whatever. Imagine how she could've been changed if her Father doesn't give her whatever she wants. So in a way, its his fault for making Chole like this and then suddenly he disowns her and divorces his wife. Sounds to me he's running way from his problems. And basically out of nowhere he's like the guardian of Zoe even though they're not biologically related and he has no rights over Zoe suddenly becomes the Father of Zoe. Another bad writing. First of all if you want custody you fight in court, you don't just take Zoe bc he literally has no legal documents being her careraker so this is in a way, illegal.

[@michaelsarmiento3057]

Andrè doesn't have persmission from the mysterious Mr. Lee to adopt Zoe. Andrè is simply stealing Zoe away from Mr. Lee because she is nice and sweet. I would like to see Mr. Lee and Andrè interact.

[@maryamsalah135]

@@michaelsarmiento3057 agree, we need to see a serious deep conversation or small fight over zoe 😂 hopefully Jeremy Zag will be a better writer in the next seasos

[@davidperkins7782]

I agree that teenage girls can be mean, but the way they portray Chloe is just ridiculous.

[@tama3162]

The "redemption" arc that NO ONE was asking for. No, really. _WHO_ was watching this show and thinking "aw, man, poor Andre. I want his life to turn around for the better" over _everything else_ that was going on in the show? Over his stupid petty enabling for the first 3 seasons?? We're not idiots. Unless someone jumped into the show at S4 and never watched back the older seasons, nearly everybody remembers how Andrea was _just_ as bad as Chloe. You could argue that he was even worse because here's a *grown-ass man* enabling his daughter's brat behavior by *abusing his political power* just so she can have her way. And yeah, when Audrey steps back into the picture, unable to remember *HER OWN DAUGHTER'S NAME,* that just makes it clear that Andre was Chloe's primary caregiving parent for her whole life. You _cannot_ tell me this man constantly feared what Audrey thought of how he was raising Chloe when she wasn't even there and doesn't even care for anyone unless they start acting like her. And you _CANNOT_ tell me that Andre was scared of *_CHLOE_* when all the power behind her bragging and bullying *COMES FROM HIM.* LIKE????? HUH Even ignoring Chloe's wasted character potential (ignoring damn near _everybody's_ wasted potential), why was this here?? What did this serve. Seriously. I'm asking so earnestly right now: *what was the point.* To give Zoe a caring parent? Ok well she's been shoved to the sidelines too. Why'd this need a narrative focus. Why did _ANDRE BOURGEIOS_ need this. It also just leaves a gross taste in my mouth too. The man literally raises Chloe to be like this singlehandedly, then dumps her off now that he's able to do so without rendering her homeless. Because leaving a bad kid with a worse parent so you can take care of the nicer child who's easier to manage is the correct choice in the matter.

[@dariusbrown7870]

He’s just a bad as his effin wife!

[@tama3162]

@@dariusbrown7870 FOR REAL

[@ozvuchkibilla]

Andre is one of the reason why this show is misogynistic despite Astruc saying it's feminist

[@AnakinSkywalkerVEVO]

How exactly is it misogynistic? The fact that that is your first is indicative that you’re really not trying to have a conversation and just lookinh for things to hate. Shut the fuck up please 🙏💅

[@ashebennett7726]

@@elongatedmanforever1252only because marinette is a fantasy daughter of Thomas and his ex girlfriend. This why she’s the only one who gets off the hook.

[@us3rk1t30]

​@@ashebennett7726that's actually really disturbing and sad, man needs therapy fr

[@kittysquad3003]

@@elongatedmanforever1252 I would say that, because what the heck does marinette and nathalie have to do with this? And wth are they getting let off the hook for? Being terrible people? Nathalies redemption ark is from gabriel betraying her and you could argue she is still a terrible person, yet she is NOTHING close to the bastard that andre is depicted as and then shown across as "yEp HeS gOOd NowW". And then dont get me started on how the frick you can compare another teenager who saves paris and is more competent than the mayor himself to an absolute a-hole of an adult man. Now that I think about it andre and thomas suuureee give off the same vibes, guess maybe hes using the character as a device to make himself feel just a little bit reassured.

[@riotkitty]

Nah…Marinette is treated as the best ever. Astruc just…apparently had a very bad breakup.

[@Life_Universe_Everything]

More and more I hear what happened after I stopped watching, the more I feel validated in stopping.

[@K41Teto41]

I would have loved Andre Borgeous character. As a great representation of a corrupt politican and a failure parent. He had a backstory and even an insteresting side: he was a former filmmaker and used to have dreams and enthusaism for art. This kind of side makes the character more realistic. If everyone didn't act like he wasn't responsible for Chloe and many other things that happened through the series, I would like him. It would be fine if every character around him was also corrupt and bad people. But characters who are written and portrayed as morally good people also didn't condemn him and were proud of him for abandoning his daughter. Which doesn't make sense. He did the upbringing of that child.

[@ViúvadeCourtneyeDuncan]

Wow, the writers really hate Chloé, and look that, for what i see in the early years of Miraculous, she was Thomas's favorite character. Also, Chloé is 14, which is even worse! Taking off this, someone remembers a Miraculous channel called "Ari" or "Ari Br"?

[@brainflash1]

Favorite character? She was always terrible.

[@ViúvadeCourtneyeDuncan]

@@brainflash1 In one video in Brazilian Portuguese about Chloé, it talked that her was Astruc's favorite character. Also, i agree that Chloé is very terrible, but not in the way that the late seasons portrayed her.

[@brainflash1]

@@ViúvadeCourtneyeDuncan True, in early seasons she was merely spoiled instead of outright evil. But even then she was still a shallow one dimensional character. Hard to see how she could be the creator's favorite character when they put so little effort into writing her.

[@ViúvadeCourtneyeDuncan]

@@brainflash1 Yeah.

[@jimbatter5246]

So yeah Andre abuses his power as mayor , threatens people jobs, lets his family walk all over him(Audrey is one thing but chloe is a child and HIS child ) , aligned with gabe instead of getting proof to report him which he didnt even have to do with all the other crazy laws inforce and normal laws ignored in this world nowaday . They literally just need family cousiling . I feel like chloes redemption arc when the same rout as Klance with the voltron fandom they begged and threatend so hard that the writers were like nah but if you change your story over the fans often times your either gonna disappointed yourself or your gonna disappoint everyone .

[@starunit5475]

Hope you feel better

[@watercat1302]

I’ll never forgive Astruc for doing Chloe dirty like this. She could’ve been Queen Bee, she could’ve been amazing had she got her redemption arc. But no, she’s apparently irredeemable and must be everyone’s hate target instead of Lila…

[@devin5043]

I wouldn’t feel so sad for Chloe not getting a redeemed if the show wasn’t half way through her redemption arc, we felt bad for Chloe and we wanted her redeem herself because she was capable of being a better person, despite her character at the beginning. And then the arc when it just stopped. I honestly don’t care about her father or her mother, I believe with help from friends and her working on herself (because she wanted to change) she’d become a better person despite her parents. But instead the show decided we can’t have that. I had to quit watching this show and Chloe’s arc stopping was one of the reasons why.

[@WarmLillie]

It take two to tango, even if one left dance to have another dance partner.

[@lovediedin2009]

i cant get over the fact that they gave chloe's dad a redemption arc but not chloe herself like what the fuck is this show doing 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

[@joshuamerriweather2861]

Andre should NOT have a redemption arc as he knew what's right and wrong plus he abused his power as a political figure and is a TERRIBLE father

[@mikaelaxx9602]

tbh this is a random thought that came to me when you were talking about the principal- does anyone else find it weird that there is no detention at marinettes school? only suspension and expulsion? I don't know if its just a case of me being american but its funny how whenever a student is accused of something the punishment always goes straight to them being suspended or expelled

[@jedemu]

I think you're completely right when it comes to André. He didn't redeem himself at all in the last few episodes, but proven once more that he's a very irresponsible man. I can understand that you can do crazy things while in love, even when your love is someone as horrible as Audrey, but the way he "fixes" things when he realizes that he's being abused is very cowardly. Just walking away from your mayor post and letting your horrible daughter that you've just disowned take your post without saying anything is extremely irresponsible. If he realy wanted to be responsible while resigning as the mayor, he could've announced that he was retiring, set up the election between Mrs Bustier and the fencing instructor and officialy hand over power to the winner. The fact that he allowed Chloe to pull off a coup and waited for Ladybug and Cat Noir to take down Chloe to do anything to punish her prooves to me that he's not responsible enough yet to be redeemed.

[@muriok2474]

I genuinely hate how he is just as bad as Gabriel but he gets a pass, got away with ALL THAT S***

[@Ivypool123]

i still dont like him he is a terrible Father and also a really bad Major

[@PrismOpal64]

This show is so misogynistic. Awful men end up getting redeemed no matter how forced, but women in the show who are awful are always awful and will forever be that way, they don't want to change. You could argue Sabrina is the exception, but she was never outright malicious to anyone she only followed Chloe's lead.

[@petalembrace7684]

Get well soon Smarty Pants!

[@mat-har5057]

Plot Twist: I wonder if Andre is a replacement sentibeing (with all the old Andre's memories) created by Audrey after the original Andre died and off screen gave his amokized object to Chloe to control him until his object is either hidden or given to him (also off screen), which gives him more free will. That is the only explanation in his favour other than him being another Mr Salt from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (who is to blame for Veruca's behaviour). Edit: Then Audrey accidentally broke the peacock Miraculous.

[@aria8256]

Gabe isn't doing this for his son. He's doing this to satisfy his own ego: 'to win against Ladybug (and chat noir too, if he remembers 😂)'.

[@KanaHyoshi]

Redemption without real build up or development. :D Yaaaaay!

[@sunglory4488]

The thing with miraculous is that it tries so hard to show that the favorable characters are pure gold and the bad ones are just trash ,evil , you should never take their sides unless your evil too. And that is wrong. You should make your charecters a whole 3D one, For their goodness to be shined in the screen you don't need to darken the others.. You need to add some darkness to the shine itself~

[@gryficowa]

Alador Blight's storyline did more than Andre's storyline, is there a way to turn the terrible father into a victim of wife violence? Yes, even Amity is such a Chloe in the beginning, although it's hard to tell if she's spoiled (With Odalia's upbringing, no one would be spoiled), it's more about her being mean, they wanted to do the same, and you know how it came out

[@gryficowa]

But in TOH at least they gave Amity a bow and not Chloe's

[@monerb7185]

the difference is toh has good writing made by a good writer and stroy teller miraculous is written by a man child

[@ikuradress]

Also, there is a theory that Chloe is a sentimonster. At first I thought it didn't make any sense, but when I thought about it a lot I realized that: 1.Her family was (and still is) very close to Gabriel (who owns the miraculous of the peacock). 2. From what I can tell, Chloe seems to be expressing some kind of extra attention to her mother. I believe it's because Audrey created her using the peacok miraculous and she is the one who has the item with the amok. They're just like Adrien and Emillie when you think about it. 3. The existence of Zoe . We do know that Zoe's father is not Andre. It could be possible that Audrey was forced to have a child with someone else because she can't have a child with Andre. So maybe (just like Gabriel and Emily), Andre and Audrey aren't able to have a child. Or maybe, since during the show we see that Audrey doesn't really love Andre, they decided not to have a child but to create one in another way. So either way, they decided to create one with magic just like Adrien was created. Like I said, we know Chloe's family is close to Gabe's, so maybe they borrowed the peacock miraculous from him. 4.While Chloe was on the plane with her mom, Audrey basically said that Chloe will no longer have her freedom and that from now on she will control her AGAIN. So, maybe before Audrey left for New York, she was controlling sentimoster Chloe. After she left, Chloe was finally able to have freedom and this may explain why she expressed her behavior like this. Maybe obeying to her mother made her feel inprisoned. That might explain why she always refused to listen to others. But unfortunately (if I'm right) Audrey will take over Chloe's life again.

[@aradcohen4309]

I never heard of this theory before but it sounds so intresting, and I would love to see a fanfiction about it

[@Mebro-m6d]

2:00 WOW. That's explain Chat Noir's behaviours in S4 and S5. It's all Ladybug's fault!