The Ridge Routes

[@kevinkral4568]

Just a quick word of thanks to *Michael Tracy* for creating a valuable and useful resource for the study of this fascinating terrain. Additionally, for armchair mountaineers such as myself who will never make it to altitude, there's a strong sense of the utter otherworldliness of the place coming right through the screen. Regards, Kev

[@jaym8027]

Thank you, Mr. Tracy. This video is invaluable for those of us who are attempting to gain an understanding of the upper reaches of Everest. I very much appreciate your taking the time to get the terrain nailed down before explaining your conclusions. You have a much more valuable point of view than many of the more experienced Himalayan mountaineers, whose very experience can disqualify them from an honest appraisal of the possible performance of the early attempts on Everest. I agree that there is zero possibility that Mallory and Irvine attempted the second step head on. I applaud your willingness to explain how climbing terminology has evolved over the years and how people may use different terms to mean the same thing, or similar terms to mean different things. Thank you again.

[@Ronin-ke5wm]

I can literally watch this video time and time again. I have learnt more about the upper faces of Everest from Michael than from anywhere else

[@sgvincent100]

Michael, this is exactly the kind of coverage I have been looking for! The North routes really *do* look so completely different from photo to photo. I really appreciate the work you put into this, and all your videos - I’m now a subscriber. ✌🏼

[@poc329]

I'm not a climber. I can't even get up a ladder. I'm not that intelligent either. But I'm just an ordinary Joe. The videos you present are full on with the amount of research you do. I have watched a lot of other videos. You almost think they could be right. But with your research you put them all to shame. Keep up the good work. I know we we never found out if they reached the top or not. But in my heart of hearts I think they did.

[@SilverJ56]

One of your best videos yet!! This is incredible research and experience and passion! Love it, looking forward to more!

[@johnfmurlin]

Michael Tracy has looked at this from angles that no one has in the last few decades. Everyone has been fixated on the Second Step the way modern route is situated. Many so-called experts have asked, “Did Mallory have the climbing ability to get over the second step?”. So many have stated, “If Mallory scaled the second step, nothing could keep him from the summit.” I believe Conrad Anker stated, if there had been a snow ramp up the second step, Mallory could have walked up. Experts fixated on the hobnail boots and how this would have prevented passing the second step. Michael Tracy has pointed out Mallory had ruled out scaling the face of the second step and the definition of the ridge route is different that today’s definition. No one from years ago, as I recall, ever mentioned looking for rock samples in the pockets. They were fixated on the “Kodak” camera as being one of the key puzzle pieces.

[@danmaltby3271]

It’s amazing how the Norton cooler can look like you could just walk straight up it but I know that Marty Hoey on the 82 US team slipped and fell like 2000 feet into the glacier, in those videos, it looks like it’s almost straight up, almost vertical, and then some videos. It looks like it’s like a walk in the park.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Marty Hoey also lost her ice axe and was climbing out directly on the face where the ice is harder. But a very sad fall. My partner and I double checked each others harnesses on our climb just because of Marty's fall.

[@julesamilcar2811]

1

[@edkiely2712]

Excellent editing Michael! One of your better videos from which you've made a few! This, hopefully, will put to rest any further ideas that M & I took the crest of the ridge-route head-on on June 8th!👍

[@jkolesa65]

Michael, I really enjoy your videos and appreciate the thought and care that goes into them. One suggestion: I would really appreciate a scale added to the photos you show. When looking at the photos is hard for someone who hasn't been to Everest to understand if a distance is 10 feet or 100 feet. Regardless, keep up the good work.

[@DanDavisHistory]

Fascinating detective work, thank you.

[@lifesahobby]

It's such a monster mountain . In Ireland the hills look big from a distance but get smaller as you get up them . With Everest , as you get closer , it just gets bigger and bigger . Cheers Michael , hope you have a good weekend .

[@davem8836]

Have you ever been a plane at 30,000 feet and looked down? Gives me perspective on just how high that mountain is let alone climb it!🤣

[@Somerled_1]

thank you for your excellent research. This is such an interesting topic!

[@griffith500tvr]

I would love you gain more subscribers, this the best channel for M&I information by far.

[@tobu3982]

Incredibly thorough analysis and argumentation. If I ever get framed for some crime I didnt do, I would want you as my defender in court.

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

Loving the new graphics/chyrons. It really helps to understand all the place names and routes.

[@GetUpTheMountains]

These are some sweet photo angles and narration thereof. Thanks fella.

[@johnfmurlin]

Most insightful Mallory and Irvine films made.

[@Oldguy-k3t]

Love the photo at 2:45. Always wondered what the other side of ridge looked like. Looks impossible to use to climb unless heavy snow smooths out the vags.

[@kingvikramjit7221]

Michael Tracy.... grateful....your insights are deep....never have been able to understand what the mountaineering community has in harping upon repeatedly that they did not summit....hope common sense prevails some day 🙏🏾

[@tylerrichards6456]

Six out of five stars. You’re on a roll with these routes

[@rogjackson]

Yes, I agree. Mr. Tracy's reasoning appears to be sharpening and more cogent with each new video. Well done Mr. Tracy! Please stay focused.

[@phoebeking9002]

I've been following this story for ten years and I find it almost inconceivable that Mallory and Irvine didn't reach the summit in 1924, on the same expedition Norton made it to within 920 feet of the summit and that was without oxygen. The amount of disinformation that has been pedalled during these ten years is incredible, first we were told that they couldn't have got past the second step because it is insurmountable but we now know that the plan was always to traverse around the second step as stated by Mallory himself and as Norton had done on his unsuccessful attempt. We will probably never know the answer, the failure to search Mallory's pockets for summit rocks when they found his body in 1999 is almost as unforgiveable as the fact he was buried once and then dug up again for more photos. There is the chance that Irvine could be found but is his body even still up there as most of the surrounding area has been searched. Quoting from Wikipedia "The summit was less than 280 m (920 ft) above Norton when he decided to turn around because of increasing terrain difficulty, insufficient time and doubts of his remaining strength." Mallory and Irvine had oxygen so would have been in better shape so the only thing that could have beaten them was the terrain. Thank you Michael Tracy, your research has been peerless in response to the drivel that has been poured out over the last ten years or so by self appointed experts on the matter. I could go on for hours but the main reasons why i think they made it: They used Oxygen. They had as good weather as could be expected - the notion of a storm engulfing them after Odell spotting them has been dispelled The didn't find the letter to Mallory's wife in his possessions in 1999 They died on the descent - as pointed out by Michael Tracy the "summit fever" effect. The fact that the only things that could have defeated them was the terrain or an oxygen equipment malfunction would have meant that would have had turned round earlier than they did and they would have lived to tell the tale

[@rvierra7235]

Very cool post! Thank you for the work on this👍

[@pauloalvesdesouza7911]

Another excellent video packed with lots of great information. A note: you kept saying "nineteen twenty fourteen expedition"

[@TheSaxon.]

Is there any particular reason the third step is climbed directly, as opposed to going around it? From the photo, it seems simpler and less arduous to go around but maybe there's less room for error or more variability in terrain due to snow and weather conditions perhaps.

[@edkiely2712]

I believe the Chinese make you go up the 3rd Step! Before you go up you have to provide your intended route and usually the expedition head or sidar(sherpa lead) will see to it that there is no deviation from the initial route-plan!

[@TheSaxon.]

@@edkiely2712 Cheers, Ed.

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

@5:00 please excuse my ignorance, but what is that car key fob thing on your chest?

[@michaeltracy2356]

It actives heated socks. Some people think getting to the summit is important. Some think making it down is the key. For me personally, making it down with all fingers and toes is the definition of a successful summit.

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

@@michaeltracy2356 do you have any experience with the new aerogel insulated 8k boots?

[@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276]

Absolutely. I remember back in the mid 2000s going to one of those TNF sponsored lecture tours and learning about those things during a Q&A with Kit DesLauriers. I asked how she climbed in ski boots that weren’t designed for the goddamn moon like the normal 8k boots are. She carried several pairs of the insole batteries. I didn’t know such technology existed.

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@ericclaptonsrobotpilot7276 I have not used those boots but I did use aerogel inserts in my boots and found them extremely effective.

[@CutmeMick]

That’s so cool! Had zero idea you could buy remote controlled heated socks!! Im for sure getting some 👍🏻

[@scottmarcuss]

Hi mr tracey. I really enjoy your content. I was just wondering when your watch video is coming out??

[@nicholasmccormick4254]

I am amazed how I can not get the mountain out of my head. It's kind of like that guy in the movie "Close Encounter." I think they summited. Their story will long be as famous. What courage!

[@kingvikramjit7221]

Hi Michael....great work of yours continues and I am really grateful to you for the same, which I am sure many more too , are....one small query though....I had read sometime ago that there is a hump like feature in between steps 1 and 2, which has a snow too and negotiating that fits in the manner Odell has described his sighting of Mallory and Irvine....one figure climbed the rock step, soon the second followed...i have always thought of enquiring about it from you....i think this video now provides me with that opportunity....am really eager to hear your analysis on the same, please

[@michaeltracy2356]

Way back before I went to Everest, I thought that was the most likely scenario -- that the step was the 1.5 step -- between the First and Second. When the only piece of information was "Norton and Odell both said they intended to climb the crest of the ridge," it makes perfect sense to think they would have climbed the crest of the ridge. But with a little work, you quickly realize that route is not remotely possible nor is there anything that would entice you to go climb that "bump." You can see the bow of the Second Step and nothing about it makes you want to climb it from that angle. But then I thought, "The direct bow is too tough, they must have gone around the Kangsung ice route." Again, this is just foolish thinking from when I still believed in the people telling the stories. Now, I am wiser and these things look ridiculous. I make these videos to point this out to people. Nothing wrong with having foolish ideas, but once you realize how many charlatans are out there for this "mystery," you have to drop those notions. You'll see when I do the zig-zag video. Mallory had a photo of the zig-zag route. It looks difficult but climbable -- same with the couloir. He then tells the camera man he is going to climb the zig-zag or the couloir. Thus, the most likely sighting for Odell is either on the zig-zag or the couloir. The couloir doesn't remotely match, so that pretty much narrows it down. It doesn't take any mountaineering genius to figure out which route to take. If you were being chased by a radioactive Yeti up the mountain, I am pretty sure you would go for either the zig-zag or the couloir -- just as everyone else in the British expeditions did.

[@michaeltracy2356]

As a note, the route to the "bump" is climbable. It is that there is no way past the Second Step via that route that makes it impossible.

[@kingvikramjit7221]

Dear Michael Sir....as you have seen, new picture of Mallory 's watch has been released by Thom Pollard just now. After viewing it, does your thesis about The Watch and timings remains the same or a change can be expected ?.... thank you

[@michaeltracy2356]

Yes, his photo cleared up some questions about the watch. The higher resolution was definitely helpful as now it is highly likely the watch shows the time of Mallory's fall. Prior to that it was merely likely. There is a fairly active discussion about this in the Yeti Academy, so I am not going to repeat all the stuff here.

[@kingvikramjit7221]

Michael Tracy..... thank you 👍

[@prateekjain7726]

Keep up the good work Michael 👍

[@SerafinaTorgul]

Hi. awesome videos. Quick question...can you point out Green Boots Cave in the picture at :46?

[@michaeltracy2356]

At 0:46 the cave is not visible -- not even close to being in that photo. The cave is about 100m to the east (left). I know Jake Norton said the cave is there in one of his photos. It is not -- not sure if he has fixed it up. Many photos and maps of the mountain make huge mistakes in the placements of items -- the wikipedia "maps" being some of the worst.

[@SerafinaTorgul]

@@michaeltracy2356 Thank you so much for clearing that up!

[@expelledfromthematrix3220]

Still waiting for you to mention how long the rope was that was attached to Mallory when they found him. If it was short then Mallory cut the rope. If it was long then Irvine cut the rope. Would also like you to speculate where Mallory fell from, and if you think Irvine and Malloy would have been tied together when Mallory fell. If they were tied to together when Mallory fell, then Irvine would have fallen to roughly the same place Mallory did. Mallory was found on his stomach, head facing upwards. Was Irvine below him, pulling him down, and then Mallory cut the rope, and Irvine fell down the mountain even further? Can you speculate about why Mallory didn't have an oxygen tank on when he was found? Edit. Thanks for showing the grade of the area. I really want to know if it's likely that Irvine fell all the way down the mountain. Is it steep enough that he could have?

[@kingvikramjit7221]

Michael Sir....much obliged 🙏🏾

[@chrisowen2763]

Super informative. Thanks.

[@windmilldoc]

Michael, I have watched a number of you videos and read comments about "summit rocks". Would you be willing to make a short video about these rocks? Are they unique on Everest? Or sufficiently different from rocks of lower strata as to be conclusive proof of a successful summit? Thanks from a non-geologist!

[@michaeltracy2356]

Yes, the rocks on the upper part of Mount Everest are fairly interesting and the use to determine the summit can vary between trivial and fairly complex. For instance, Norton and Somervell picked up rocks on their trip. The rocks were from the Yellow Band, so just looking at them, you would know instantly that they did not make the summit. Of course, we know they didn't make the summit because they came back and said so. Similarly, the rocks around the Third Step are different colors and if they turned around there, the rocks would be easy to identify as not coming from the summit. For other places, the analysis needs to be done in a lab and you can't tell just by looking at the rocks. I will get into the details of this for the Chinese 1960 climb. We don't have any samples collected by Mallory because they were not looking for them when they found his body. As a note, their magic memories now recall a detailed search they claim would have found the rocks, but this belated retelling of the story is contradicted by the stories they told at the time and by Wade Davis' account after seeing the film of the search. The Chinese claim to have collected samples in 1960 and a published photo of one of the rocks exists such that they cannot change it after the fact. Hopefully that rock sample can be used to determine whether the Chinese made it to the summit in 1960 and put that issue to rest.

[@diegomata3624]

@@michaeltracy2356 The point, Michael, is that in a way the entire Himalayan chain has to be analyzed as a whole, as it is all inserted in the dynamics of the thousands of convergence events that generated and uplifted the mountain. The spaces between them, which generated the peaks, are from differential erosion processes. I'm a geographer, not a geologist, so I can't say for sure, but I assume that 8000m+ mountains like Makalu are expected to feature similar rocks at the peak. You could extract rocks from another mountain of great magnitude that has undergone similar processes. But I can humbly be refuted by someone more qualified in the matter.

[@markwroblewski6500]

@@Chris-CardVault Could be.The Nepalese organisers are only interested in the business/profits.A few days ago charges to climb Everest rose by 50%.Some individuals make easy money and 200+ bodies need to be sorted out.

[@tropics8407]

Thank you 🙏

[@cupatelj52]

This video is very informative.

[@samstewart4807]

Hi, LOVE your videos. My first question- What is the weather there now/ today?? is there much snow? Are the long range (1? month forecasts reliable?) IF there is not much snow cover are you/ have you been able to get any pics off google earth? 2, How easy is it identify a "summit rock" How are they different from rocks 500 feet lower down? Why? Because I want to know how easy it is use a counterfeit rock and claim it is a summit rock. 3, WHAT is unique about summit rocks? 4 ,@6 minutes, the old white guy (me) is a little confused about each area of each route. Will you post more details / arrows/ lines of each route in your next video?? Have you thought about making and selling an array of pics depicting the different routes/ times etc? First a large pic showing the entire north side, then detailed close up pics with lines and arrows showing specific routes/points/ camps/ bodies/ axe/ oxy bottle?? What do you think the price/ market for such a photo package would be?

[@phil5888]

Did any Chinese climber write about the 1960 expedition or keep a diary? The little bit it says about the expedition on wikipedia is interesting.

[@danmaltby3271]

in reading Reinhold Messners book about Mallory, to me it seamed that Norton crossed over to the right and than went up the Great Coular that now bears his name, or perhaps a misunderstanding, something it appears to me you’re having him up going over the top of the Norton cooler where my understanding is that he went up about center of it, and then went straight up it, turning back somewhere near the top of the coular. enjoy your videos very much man detail and you actually climbed it which is pretty bad ass. Sidenote, if you could do a video on the three pinnacles, I would really appreciate it because I’ve been searching and searching to find as much as I can about Boardman and Tasker and the three pinacles but very little out there.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Messner's route is described in detail here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/l3LLcqyZe8mChMk It really is nowhere close to Nortons. Norton went around the very top of the couloir as he was trying to exit straight out of the couloir going out the top. A shelf of rock prevents such a direct exit so he keep going to the right to try to get around it until it became apparent that he needed to cross the the other side and try. to get. to the small gully. Later, Norton would mention that you might be able to exit the top of the couloir by breaking through the bands to the east -- this is the zig-zag route.

[@griffith500tvr]

Messner's route in 1980 was pure genius, I wonder if it even occurred to the 1924 expeditions that it might be better to get near to the summit on a lower altitude and then spend less time in high altitude to make the summit. Maybe the concept of the death zone was not very developed in 1924.

[@michaeltracy2356]

The issue is the tents. In 1924, their tents would not survive on the North face itself because it is too windy. Messner was doing it alpine style and thus did not need to have a tent stay up very long. Even today, modern tents get destroyed on the North face, while the 1924 camps remained largely intact when they were visited in 1933. Thus, they chose those locations because they were sheltered from the wind -- not because Messner was smarter than them.

[@berryreading4809]

But now how am I supposed to use a few carefully selected photos to use as conclusive evidence for the 1924 ridge route for my next book deal now?! Curse you yet again Michael Tracy! 😄 Very interested in hearing your opinions on the Chinese involvement past and present in this ongoing mystery... I shall study the teachings of Mao so I may have the patience to wait for your upcoming "First North Summit 😉" video!

[@TheGotoGeek]

The decontextualization of older sources seems to be a recurring theme. Without doing the research to understand what people from a different era meant by the words they were using it is impossible to reconstruct events of the past. This seems to compound the Rashomon effect.

[@olsinho]

awaiting the detailed zig-zag video...or is it out already? if yes, someone share the link?

[@johnnyvee3339]

Excuse my ignorance here, but has there ever been an attempt to actually climb the approximate zig-zag route in the modern day? If not, then this seems like a reasonable way to discern just how challenging it really is.

[@michaeltracy2356]

As you delve into this "mystery" closer, you will see how good a question that actually is. For instance, two teams were there in 2019 with good weather and one team was "searching" right next to this route and could have easily climbed it, photographed it, or determined it was not climbable. And yet they did not. Haven't release a single photo of it taken from when they were a stone's throw away. And there was a drone that imaged the entire mountain in 2019. No close ups of this area have been released that would easily determine the issue. In terms of actually climbing it, that is generally not permitted by the Chinese, so taking photos from close by or when permission to use a drone was granted are likely the best options at this point. If someone were to stealth climb it (this may have been done in 2014), they could not publicly say they did it or the Chinese would ban them and their Sherpas.

[@davem8836]

If it weren't for the Chinese buggering things up (allegedly) and the 1999 expedition buggering things up (definitely) we might have an answer to something that is probably now unknowable.

[@MXCombs22]

Where did Mallory fall from then slide down to his final resting place? He just laid there and said well Im dead

[@davem8836]

What's that "remote" like device clipped to you with the 1-2-3 on it?

[@bolshoefeodor6536]

Garage door opener. For the skidoo shed that is back at camp 4 ... 😜

[@edkiely2712]

@@bolshoefeodor6536Bravo Bolshoe! Love me a good sense of humor! Too many serious people out there who can't laugh at the world!

[@michaeltracy2356]

It is the keyless entry for my spaceship.

[@michaeltracy2356]

Actually, they are for the electric socks.

[@billbright1755]

Did Mallory make summit in 1924?

[@smoothkaracho9392]

could it be that this route is better/"easier" than the standard route?

[@kiwicory100]

Mallory was a rock climber first. I understand there there are some pretty decent hand holds on the second step to climb up and over. Anker claimed he could have done it and the first time he climbed it he did it in 5 minutes. Hahn claims with the longer ice axes of their day it could have also aided In his climb up. But I am no expert.

[@BS2Dos]

👍👍

[@kingvikramjit7221]

Dear Michael Sir.....what is your opinion on the Extra Sleeping Bags theory.....that two sleeping bags were unaccounted for....pl do comment whenever you find time.... thank you

[@michaeltracy2356]

One of the purposes of this channel is to educate people so they can spot various manipulative techniques. It does little good to ask me about every single yak dung story you come across. If you have not developed your ability to detect yak dung then you should start with the basics. Everything is yak dung until the person offering you the information has proven to you that the story is not yak dung. Now, if these authors have proven to you that the story is not yak dung, nothing I can say would change that. However, if their story is based on rumors and innuendo and does not have clear supporting evidence, you should dismiss it as yak dung and do the world a favor and not repeat it nor discuss it with other people. The goal of yak dung stories is to distract people, grab their attention, make money on ads, or any number of other things. Frequently you will not know the true motives of purveyors of yak dung. If you have to ask me about a story, then obviously the authors did not convince you it was not yak dung and you can simply dismiss it. There is an asymmetry in yak dung stories. That is, they are far easier to create than they are too debunk. Until enough people develop their yeti senses and stop listening to and repeating yak dung, charlatans will continue to spew yak dung. So, when you step in some yak dung -- and there is a lot out there, please do not come into my tent and ask me what is on your boot.

[@GMan958]

Agree with everything you said!!! There is no way they climbed the second step. The Norton route is the known evil for them...

[@VanishedPNW]

Long winded opinion on 99 expedition v. Mallory and Irvine: One of the main reasons why I don't listen to Conrad Anker, Dave Hahn, or anyone who thinks it's unlikely that Mallory & Irvine summited, is because they seemed genuinely shocked that the 1924 expedition even made it as far as they did (the uncontested climbing record set on that expedition). This makes them less credible, in my opinion. While my logic is not completely sound, (I'm not attempting to make an argument from a pure logicians standpoint) it seems as if those on the 1999 expedition, if asked whether or not men in 1924, in tweed jackets and what amount to little more than logging caulks, could have even made it to base camp, before being educated and faced with conclusive evidence proving that they in fact did get to base camp, I believe they'd unequivocally state, "no way." Their shock at there even being an expedition that got *close* is all the evidence I need to readily dismiss their opinions, before even examining their version of the facts or really listening to what they have to say, as it shows their lack of humility before the history of their own sport. The arrogance of believing that as an athlete you are the sum total of all of the technology and improvements made and lessons learned by those who came before you is a common misconception in the world of sport. As athletes (I was a collegiate-style wrestler for 20 years), we always approach things with a tremendous amount of recency bias due to a lack of education/appreciation for our own history. As wrestlers, we'd see photos of guys from 40s and 50s in their silly leggings and tights and think things like "oh wow, that guy looks terrible," etcetera. However, when you then realize that those same wrestlers are still out there coaching world class athletes today, it calls into question whether or not they were really that "terrible." When those same coaches say things like "John Smith from the 1952 NCAA Iowa wrestling team could beat anyone, even Olympians today," it comes with a certain measure of legitimacy. The 99 expedition finds it absurd to believe Irvine could have summited. It's not like the 1924 expedition did not realize his lack of experience. He proved himself to be one of the best climbers there, even among men with a decade more climbing experience than himself. The fully anticipated his lack of experience to be a liability, and it was proven not to be the case. Those climbers like Anker want to believe that 1924 was some remote time in ancient history. That climbers of that age cannot be compared to climbers today. However on the timeline of man as a species, 1924 was simply yesterday. Sure, they didn't have Patagonia mittens, but they had something money couldn't ever buy: the daring will of the human spirit that compelled them to be the very first. They had more hardiness in one step than most contemporary climbers could ever dream of. They didn't know that they didn't have Patagonia or modern climbing boots. They only knew that they had to summit, period. 1924 was not 1924 BC. It's 1924 as in just 75 short years before the 99 expedition.

[@garysmith5641]

good Video , only question I still have is who cut Mallory`s rope ? Marble and Limestone didnt

[@michaeltracy2356]

Every year they put in new fixed modern nylon ropes. And every year, late in the season the ropes are frayed and many are broken -- especially along the "windy ridge."

[@garysmith5641]

@@michaeltracy2356 it was still in good nick 80 years later , im not saying i can prove it was cut , but nobody asked that question once

[@michaeltracy2356]

@@garysmith5641 Mallory's knife was in his pocket. So, if one of them did cut it, it is unlikely Mallory was in a position to put the knife back in his pocket.

[@garysmith5641]

@@michaeltracy2356 i never thought it was Mallory ! and was well aware of the knife and made that assumption too, just a theory based on working with Marble and Limestone since 1984 and still do , having cut nylon and hemp with it , the moment i saw the rope in 1999 it looked cut with a knife 70 odd years on

[@garysmith5641]

@@michaeltracy2356 im not the only person that thought that , but we have all seen touching the void , and all seen the video Jochen did to prove rock cut the rope . Ill go with the first one mentioned

[@kingvikramjit7221]

My this theory is based on extremely simple assumptions that a three time Everest veteran like Mallory must have made. For a successful summit., the essentials were.....firstly, a launching base as high as possible ( 1924 camp 6), secondly, availability of maximum daylight hours (0230h to 1930h gave them 17 hours), thirdly, oxygen (6-7 bottles), fourthly, ensuring no time was wasted in negotiating obstacles (follow the beaten path till as long as u can, then find a path which needed no efforts of rock climbing, step cutting, belay, etc ), fifthly, keep energy levels up....that was the only way to reach a summit in super high altitude in unchartered and unknown territory without any extra support but only a gut climber's instincts......

[@markwroblewski6500]

We are discussing Mallory sumitting or not.I doubt Hillary/Norgay sumitted Everest-no real photo evidence.The official photo shows Norgay filling tightly the frame,no points of reference in the background;not conclusive photos taken in 4 basic directions proving the summit location.

[@oat138]

The more I listen to your commentary, I am starting to think that they were murdered. I mean, an Ice Axe wound into his head????

[@kingvikramjit7221]

Dear Michael..... three arguments put forward by theorists for Mallory and Irvine not having been seen by Odell at Step 3 are a. They could not have made it so fast from 1924 Camp 6 to be at the third step at 1250h. b. If they had taken the Couloir Route, and if they successfully traversed out of it, it is more prudent to continue climbing up northwards to the summit (like messner) than RETURN back to the third step to climb the summit through the ridge route. c. Though Norton briefed Mallory about the climbability through the Couloir, he also expressed the steepness, loose rocks and soft snow along this Couloir Route, that made it dangerous and time consuming 'step cutting, belay support from second climbing partner, etc'. My viewpoint to counter these is that if Odell saw Mallory and Irvine at the third step at 1250h, ....then perhaps they had started from their camp 6 early in the morning, maybe a 0230 h start ( not taking headlamps may have been due to load of the oxygen bottles and in hope that these lamps shall not be needed after daybreak at 0513h in hope of a successyretturn back to their high camp 6 by 1930h, when moon would be out ,... Therefore availability of enough daylight and moonlight hours). It may have been a stupid decision as we view today, having the benefit of hindsight available to us. However, these were young dedicated enthusiasts, committed to their goal even to the peril of their lives....hence, were very much capable of taking such decisions to reduce as much unnecessary load as they could due to excess Bloody Load for Climbing in the form of 5 to 6 oxygen bottles. They started at 0230h, as Mallory was known for in previous ascents to other summits, ....went on Norton's route....entered the Great Couloir....exited it....To counter the extreme wind on North face wall....adhered to their plan ..... RETURNED back to the zig zag route or any other route to reach the third step at 1250h....now, as Mallory had known from his previous 1921 and 1922 experiences, both major obstacles viz, the second step and wind beaten North Face wall ...were now behind them, the summit was now within reach without having to perform any dangerous or time consuming endeavours......pl prove me wrong, Sir

[@michaeltracy2356]

Those climb times are way off. I suggest watching "Mallory vs Modern", "The Plan", "The Watch" and "A Bloody Load" -- those cover the issue of timing fairly well.

[@mattirealm]

The issue with your 1960 Chinese Expedition video is pretty big. If they got past the 2nd Step, they probably made the summit. I don't think they got past it. I am pretty sure Messner has said the same thing. He did refer to stuff near the 2nd Step as "Chinese Garbage." The story of people standing on each others shoulders is ridiculous! Hammering "large" pitons seems equally ridiculous. I think the Chinese failed at the 2nd Step and so did Mallory. Also, why did the Chinese bring that damn ladder up in 1975? My guess is BECAUSE they had failed in the past! Their story is like any lie humans make up when they have failed; it brings illogical and fantastical (read, MAGIC) into the story. Messner doesn't believe them and frankly, I don't either. When you make these claims it HELPS to have evidence to back them up.

[@johndurrer7869]

I believe he changes his plans and his election of Sandy points heavily in that direction

[@michaeltracy2356]

How so?

[@johndurrer7869]

Possibly because Sandy had the best combination of height and physical strength to hold up Mallory on his shoulders.. Plus he would’ve been the one most likely to be ok with pushing Mallory up for glory while staying back. From what I have read he was more concerned with glory for his “oxygen machine” than glory for himself. Just a theory

[@michaeltracy2356]

Ok, but Irvine was assigned to him over a month ago. It was not a last minute thing, so it would not have been any "change." It was the exact same climb he planned out over a month ago. Typically, when undertaking a life threatening endeavor, people try to plan them out to reduce the risk -- not make last minute changes and hope they don't die. So, most likely, he did not change anything at the last minute or in the last days because the climb was well planned out, his partner was Irvine. It had been that way for over a month and you can see "The Plan" for the issues with the aborted attempt with Bruce. From that video, Mallory had a plan, and he was executing on that plan. It was written out if fairly good detail, and he stuck to most of it. Not much a mystery here. Mallory planned out the most important and dangerous climb of his entire life. His friends back home said he obsessed over it and spent hours going over photos to work out the route and the camps. All this is covered in The Last Step But One. I realize that Thom Pollard needs Mallory to have made a last minute change in plans so that his theory works, but that is not a good reason for Mallory to have actually done so. Look at the evidence and what Mallory said and did and it will make sense pretty quickly.

[@Mr.dineshh]

Middle finger for your information…do you know about everest???

[@michaeltracy2356]

Yes, flipping off the facts seems to be a common theme in modern society. But thanks for commenting and it greatly helps promote the video to other people who are not so against the facts as you are.

[@handsome_man69]

Is this harder to climb than Mt Killimanjaro?