Tom Holzel's Search for Mallory and Irvine

[@rossturpin8047]

About a week ago I’d never watched a single thing on Everest. Now I’m OBSESSED

[@saddlecrew7]

that's how it all starts! I

[@jellyfish1333]

Lol me also. To me, Everest, k2 and the other 8000s seem like live creatures to me

[@jamesdyer744]

I’m the same way! Crazy how this will suck you in! I suppose we will never know there summit. I would like to have a 1/2 Full glass on this one. However the difficulties to summit with today’s gear. Compared to then sure seems unfavorable. The Lord only knows.

[@randyparker1942]

Fortunately there are dozens of books to flame you addiction. Two of my favorites are Into Thin Air by John Krakauer and The Mountain, Epic Adventures on Everest by Ed Viesters. All of Ed’s books on climbing are wonderful

[@cakanzimmer8244]

#2021metoo

[@kennethwilkinson2095]

Why am i all of a sudden obssessed with all things everest all of a sudden?

[@cactusman7345]

Me too. Don't know why. Brian blessed's film from his 1996 expedition is a good watch.

[@Somerled_1]

Because it's there :)

[@dustinwolfe9591]

It happens to me about twice a year lol. I'm in no condition to think about climbing Everest, but I'd like to think I could.

[@kennethwilkinson2095]

@@TheSaxon. I had this feeling when trying to engage with him mocking the video originally. Happy New year everyone.

[@superguitarras111]

armstrong aldrin & collins......no first man. imagine

[@DullerCrab]

It is reassuring seeing all of the new comments on here of people still eager to discover Andrew Irvine’s final resting place. I hope in my lifetime that he will be discovered, it is such a fascinating mystery. Please don’t give up on this!

[@juliefaulkner5497]

I too really hope they find Andrew Irvine, could they not get a closer picture of that area surely.

[@cejka30]

I know. God only knows what irvine went through up there when mallory fell. 21 years of age or around that on his own. Inexperienced climber. Poor bloke. It wouldn't surprise me if he just jumped off the mountain.

[@guinsfan87]

@@cejka30 Nah those guys were warriors, I doubt he would have jumped off. I have seen other videos made by people who have actually climbed everest and they believe Irvine's resting place is in an area of the mountain that funnels slow and is rarely uncovered enough to be able to see the body. Kodak has said even now if they were to find Irvine's camera the film could likely still be developed. I hope that is true so one day we can find out whether Mallory and Irvine actually summited the peak or not

[@ThatSB]

@@juliefaulkner5497 sure they could. With a drone

[@ThatSB]

If he fell into the glacier flow it could be a long time

[@tarunbhatt5848]

I hope they find the camera with him. Come on folks, we seriously need another mission similar to the one that found Mallory in 99.

[@ufc1243]

They did another in 2020 it's on hulu

[@pendragonU]

@@ufc1243 Did they use high altitude drones to film above the ground beyond their eyes could reach?

[@jbfrom503]

@@pendragonU You can't fly drones at that altitude. Waaaayyyyyyy to much wind.

[@spongebobd]

@@jbfrom503 incorrect. they took the drone above 28000m

[@jbfrom503]

@@spongebobd correct. But not on a hoovering mission. Just fly byes

[@dylant8056]

I am so incredibly fascinated by Mallory and Irvine!

[@glensmall9194]

Me too Dude

[@CoalCreekCroft]

These blow-up map/scans are giving me the best "feel" for the territory despite the dozens of maps, diagrams and CGI seen about Everest; thank you. Aware of the main features (the Steps; Yellow Band, etc) but finally all clicked with Mr. Holzel and that aerial shot/guidance. Utterly fascinating, too. Well done. ("Elias! Ask 'em if they can get their team on finding yer dang car keys...")

[@ravindersingh2044]

Thank you Sir,one of the best explanation here about their disappearance. Great respect and admiration for Mallory & Irvine for what they did in 1924 with limited resources. Just like all of you I am also obsessed with Everest and have watched lot of content about M & I . I honestly believe they were the first ones to sumitt Everest. RIP 🙏

[@tomholzel251]

Check out the July 2020 issue of National Geographic to read about a 2019 assault from the North and research of the Irvine location--plus outstanding drone photography.

[@lutzderlurch7877]

Is there anything online you could link, perhaps?

[@lutzderlurch7877]

@inönu thank you kindly!

[@lutzderlurch7877]

@inönu Well... That was a dud, wasn't it?

[@vicentcarro]

I read about it on NGC magazine Taiwan version today, can’t wait to see the coming show! Let’s get Mr. Irvine home !

[@nuntana2]

Vincent Ryu Items will be recovered (including, hopefully, the camera) but he’ll be left there and simply covered with rocks, as Mallory. And too right. It’s their resting place, plus he’s potentially at one solid with the mountain.

[@bluecordterrainsolutions]

I know one man on the team that discovered Mallory. Hopefully someday soon, Irvine will also be found and also be given a dignified burial. His personal affects may also be able to tell his part of the story of what happened that day

[@sophielove7896]

I am so fascinated with this. I could listen to this for hours..!!

[@mikesomerset6338]

Having studied this subject, on and off, for very many years, this is the best summary analysis I have yet seen. I have no doubt that as technology continues to advance and as Everest continues to become more accessible it can only be a matter of time before the body is discovered.

[@lumberlikwidator8863]

Thank you for the video, and thank you for the space for comments. You are a real gentleman. Know-it-all Michael Tracy does not have space for comments because he apparently thinks that only his opinions matter. Thanks again!

[@jamiefrost8476]

This Theory has been disproved now sadly. Mark Synnott recently took an expedition to Everest for the purpose of proving this right. Unfortunately when he located the crevice, it was significantly smaller than expected and no body to be found.

[@saucejohnson9862]

It doesn't disprove it, they just didn't find him.

[@jamiefrost8476]

@@saucejohnson9862 They found the exact spot referenced in this video and he wasn't there. The body is obviously somewhere but this particular theory as to the exact location has be proven incorrect.

[@vaneeshladia]

@@jamiefrost8476 Yes. I saw the video too.

[@tarunbhatt5848]

Please give link for this search mission.

[@jorgeeze]

@@tarunbhatt5848 2019 mark synott party

[@realnapster1522]

This analysis is completely flawed. Mallory had discussed his routes with Norton who had just a few days before established the highest point on the mountain. He followed the couloir route and made good progress. He did not climb the ridge route which would have forced him to climb the steps. In short he bypassed second step. And Mallory would have done the same. Why would he waste his time scouting the route if Norton already reached closer to summit through the couloir route?

[@Steve_Schiffenhaus]

Yup - this

[@tripleseasmarine3257]

Was anyone else waiting for the flowers to pop out of the magic wand?

[@elguapo42]

"I believe Irvine's body is right (flower's pop) here!"

[@Happy2DabsYT]

Would have been a nice touch

[@531katie]

ha ha love it

[@ericastier1646]

Superb, award deserving video. I always wanted geographical analysis of mt Everest and the Mallory expedition which this is. Very happy to see this.

[@JuliusCaesar888]

The ending is very funny. "We should go and look." *stares at the camera stonefaced* Lmao. Yeah, just gimme 5 mins I'll head right on up.

[@kristoffersmith8289]

They did... nothing there.

[@JuliusCaesar888]

@@kristoffersmith8289 yeah I know.

[@imiejj8665]

just like malory and irvine ..coz its there ...

[@cordeliav3055]

Oh boy, this is the best explanation I have seen. Terrific video.

[@againnotavailable]

I don"t think the position of the ice ax has to be related to the place of the fall. The way you describe the final moments of Mallory's life is equivalent to claiming there were actually 2 or more separate falls with Mallory "somehow" covering quite a distance between them. Now that the injuries on his body are known and the blood stains on the front part of his clothes have been analyzed, I think that all the serious injuries - the broken leg, the forehead puncture, the broken ribs - must have happened on his final fall to even be possible to descend further after an initial fall in the place of the ice ax. It just does not make sense at all. Have you tried to reverse trace the final fall? From where the final resting place of Mallory's body is and considering the fact that the body has not been moved, Mallory has almost certainly died shortly after being able to stop himself sliding of the edge, the possible sight of the "final" (and quite possibly only) fall could be narrowed to a small area, couldn't it?

[@mareknosek996]

Needle in a haystack. Under the snow , ice . Anyway , good luck to them.

[@GMan958]

Agree...at that height, that late in the day one significant fall is all it takes to die. Seems unlikely that Mallory would have wonder around for a while after what appear to be significant injuries. Irvine's story is really unknown it may be possible that he died somewhere else in the mountain and that is why they can't find his body. May be Mallory was just by himself at that point. Hopefully they find him and also find irrefutable proof that they summited in 1924

[@yourface07]

How do they know how he died? I’ve read the claim of his own ice axe breaking his skull but wouldn’t that most likely be him slamming into the ground? And surely after all of these years, his body could have moved. I hope we eventually manage to find Irvine and the camera

[@Bella.216]

@@yourface07 it wasn't his ice axe it was a rock that hit him above his left eye.

[@davefloyd9443]

​@@yourface07Mallory was initially found frozen into the ground. Later they piled large rocks on his body. If his body slid further down after he died how come his arms were extended in an fashion to arrest a slide whilst still alive. Look at the photos of his body, he slid to that point and died there.

[@hendrikusdetuinman8360]

I thought it was pretty well documented Odell stood near the 8.000m snowfield from which point the first step is blocked by the ridge itself. Most likely route is just traversing below fist and second step all the way up to just before the norton couloir and take the zigzag route up to the third step. That's just for the going up part. I agree they most likely fell, Irvine should be closeby and needs to be found. We should go and look indeed.

[@ARXDMOS]

amen. from where odell was and that is decently certain, you cannot see the first step, you can see the second step but not climbers cresting over the second step. He saw them cresting the thirds step, and that fits in the time frame he estimated they would need to reach the summit by 4PM. they definitely made it to the top and fell on the way down.

[@boogeymanblues99]

Yep I agree. I think odell did see them going strong for the summit. This guy says they probably turned around and climbed the 1st step to take some pictures, none of that in my opinion describes Mallory who at 38 knew this was literally his last chance to summit. I think they made it and fell on the descent. 1. Mallory was too determined to summit Everest even if it meant his fate. 2. I think they were capable even in that era of mountaineering (as proven by Conrad Anker who climbed the second step in the exact same gear with no fixed ropes and an inexperienced climbing partner) 3. Where was the picture of Mallory's wife he said he would leave at the summit? I can't imagine him leaving it anywhere else. They weren't the first to 'Climb/Conquer' Everest but I truly believe they were the first people to stand on top of the world. Unfortunately to conquer a mountain you must make it down. Great video, but I don't 100% believe what he is saying to be accurate.

[@ARXDMOS]

@@boogeymanblues99 100% agreed

[@apikecalledmike]

@@boogeymanblues99 until there is evidence that is wishful speculation. I would love them to have made it and believe Mallory could climb the second step at a lower altitude certainly - but how they physically were on that climb, how much oxygen they had, the route all remain unknown. Also no evidence has ever been found above the second step. It's also impossible to know where they were from Odell's sighting, a journal entry of his eyewitness account, but poor evidence to decide where they were and could also be said to have been written under some influence of wanting to honour his brave lost comrades - nearing the final pyramid (compared to where?), climb a rock step (does it have to be one of the three steps), going strong for the top. I believe Irvine would have had the camera as the more technically apt of the two and, if physically able, would have taken photos along the way of Mallory leading (as other climbers did). Their last climb remains the greatest mystery of all. So many questions unanswered, and like some unconquered pinnacle in a dream, so tantalisingly tempting and yet forever beyond reach.

[@boogeymanblues99]

@@apikecalledmike yes it is. Just as saying they didn't make it is also simply speculation. Truth is we will probably never know what happened and that's what I love about this story. I look at it this way... Conrad anker summited with a very inexperienced climber wearing the exact same gear and using replicated oxygen equipment of that era. He and his inexperienced climber made it up the second step with no fixed ropes. This proves that it was at the very least a possibility that Mallory and Irvine could have done it. Why do you suspect Mallory had his glasses in his pocket? If he turned around at the 2nd step he should have been back to high camp before the sun went down. Also why didn't they find the picture of his wife? I just can't imagine Mallory turning around at the second step to return to high camp or simply climb the first step as a photo opportunity. Nothing about Mallory's character seems to fit this account. Especially the fact that this was most likely his last chance at an attempt, at his age he would likely not have been invited on another expedition. I think if Mallory and Irvine didn't make it that they died attempting a summit not descending. Yes it's speculation but isn't that why were here? Because we want to know but we most likely never will. Even if they did find Irvine's camera, to salvage and develop that film would be an absolutely momentous task and may not even be possible. Or maybe the Chinese did find it on the "old English dead" and destroyed it... We may never know. I guess I do like to think they made it, but it's hard not to. Its a fascinating story either way, I love that people are still interested in what happened and finding Irvine.. Fingers crossed he will be found in our lifetime and some questions may be answered.

[@kelleyodil1844]

I read a response you gave following an article in the Guardian recently and it seems that not only are you certain about Irvine's whereabouts (8430), you are commenting as if it is fact. Though I appreciate the forensic confidence, is this all too bold a statement? Still, it is difficult to not take for gospel that the "feet up towards the summit" statement as conclusive evidence given the face down Mallory find. I am also wondering if anyone has ever stated that it may have been Irvine that fell first with Mallory subsequently falling himself further down the mountain despite toppling second? This is in no way to romanticize Mallory any further than lore suggests or his prowess as a climber further because we know by now that anyone is prone to a fall (ala The Swiss Machine). Still, is it plausible?

[@Xxxxxx19-p1c]

OMG! This guys pointer is the magic wand I got in my magic set at Christmas 1972!

[@antoniobattisti1988]

I am sure that if this video were better described and tagged, it would be watched by thousands of people... It is quite difficult to find it unless you use the iperlink in the Wiki page of GL Mallory... And, finally, it is Irvine, not Irving...

[@tomholzel251]

,,,and you can hear me making a similar mistake, alternating between the British ER-vin vs the American er-VINE. The "Irving" error is the film maker's.

[@peterholzel]

Thanks for correcting my error. I changed the name to Irvine.

[@snowcreek7156]

Fascinating! It’s now June of 2022, did anyone go search for Sandy here?

[@VTPSTTU]

I appreciate the work that you've done on this project. I still think that there are a few caveats that we must consider. 1. Eyewitness testimony is considered unreliable at sea level when people have full oxygenation of their blood. At that elevation, I'd be particularly skeptical of eyewitness accounts. A few people may have seen a body somewhere, but that doesn't mean that they remembered accurately what they saw. 2. I'm skeptical of the idea that they would have gone up on the first step as you suggest. As I understand what Odell reported, they were climbing up some kind of step as a storm rolled onto the mountain. If they had given up on reaching the summit and were trying to get back to camp, I can't see any reason that they would take the kind of "let's look around" trip to the top of the first step. I would think that if they were racing against a snow squall, they would be making a direct path down the mountain. Again, Odell could have been mistaken in what he saw or how he interpreted what he saw. The same concerns about witness testimony apply. I just don't see them ascending the first step for a look around when a storm is approaching.

[@pendragonU]

i don't think someone as experienced and unusually sharp in decision making in mountain unexpected weather shifts as Mallory was by then, would have rushed to camp dashing into the midst of snow squall clouds to get through for a more than two hours climb down, and probably longer given in worsening wind and snowing. Too much of an unnecessary risk gamble. They must have seen the clouds extent from above (actually, as it turned out to be, it was a relatively brief couple hours only of clouds download). Experience would have told George by 1:20pm before the snow blew at 2pm, to keep pushing higher above the clouds coming around that face side, and never to rush into it just to get in camp for it. Defeats its own purpose. So, either they kept rushing higher into the pyramid itself away from the mini-storm or they took shelter bivouacking at any of the rock nooks around there. At 4 pm weather cleared up, Odell came out of the camp and for half an hour he kept making signs for them to spot him. He never saw them return to camp or on the facade, as they were higher at the summit recently arrived, and soon already planning to go down. He left anyway only after half hour in order to reach the lower camp himself in Time, before dark and to leave space for them to spend the night there by themselves (only room for two) in the 4 hours or so before sunset, before to continue going down the next day in the morning once recovering new energy from their excruciating Sunday adventure. The changing of the mountain weather or cooling the winds and snow storm brought didnt kill them obviously, however the improper outfit worn by pro mountaineers then (with the best they had tested for it since decades on it) has been drilled to obnoxious limits, was not modern standards to survive there. They obviously did, but the exhaustion after 9 hours or more of mountain workout and longer time exposure must have been taking its toll as they descended, and all it took was a single misstep or a couple over fresh snow on less firm than dried and stacked up snow grounds that sent one of them down. Now, I believe for all his confidence in Irvine as a solid and strong companion choice for Mallory to take him along his try, his larger physique actually was against him, as being larger means requiring a higher consumption of energy and oxygen too than the smaller but stout Sherpa's bodies -adapted to the high altitude zones needed endurance over generations- because they are lower maintenance for the above sportsmen stamina demanded on higher altitudes. Irvine however way much younger than the veteran and smaller Mallory was probably worse in exhaustion, and dehy delirious must have slipped earlier, where his pick-axe fell and regardless attempts to pull him up or at least anchor his return up, made harder without his axe (if he was still alive hanging from the rope)... so, Mallory continued without his mate and didn't even bother picking up Irvine ice-axe - left on the spot. And he too fell on a misstep too probably much later, with the same problem of tiredness and the fresh snow and visibility dwindling, as the side of the mountain he was descending was in shadows by then... reaching darkness earlier than the Southwestern, where sunset would be soon. regardless those were the longest days of the year and warmer too because the Solstice in a few days.

[@pendragonU]

besides, Odell wasn't in absolute just any "casual bystander" witness, to slant or disdain his testimony and accuracy. He was among the top 10 or 12 mountaineers in the World at the time, and the way these people had their eyes trained to observe things as these on the distance even without binoculars, searching for details and rock contours with all the differences and peculiarities was a high developed skill b professional need that required their attention and experience, their very lives depended of it and a mistake or assumption could make all the difference between death and life. I dont think he was casually looking even if high on oxygen or helium, or due high altitude sickness deprived, he was in good shape and ran between camps and work on the geological and paleontology sampling side of their mission to Everest ...another thing is the interpretation of what he saw and tried explaining, and the many ways it has been distorted.

[@pendragonU]

@M A on the other hand the chaos inside the camp could have been cased by Mallory getting ahead, leaving all as it was as soon as daylight came before sunrise over the Oriental side of Everest as they were, ahead of the 8 am warning note he sent below with porters earlier. He knew they would need of every hour of daylight they could get for the last trek around the zone Norton had reached in the earlier attempt. They took all oxygen gear with them, no such theoretical failures left behind.

[@pendragonU]

@M A I never thought of Mallory "leaving behind" Irvine. If you interpreted that from what I wrote above. In my opinion, Mallory lost Irvine on the way down after summit. Or after sheltering at some nook off the intense snowing blocking them below, from supposed return to camp.... if quitting the ascent some time between 1 or 2 pm after Odell saw them reaching the pyramid small step. Which I don't think Mallory would have judged as any difficult to quit once there, so close to and still within time to start descent. At any rate they would not be able to go back for the next 2 hours due the wind and snow, that will clear around 4 pm. In Mallory's experienced choices, he would have taken to climb higher than the clouds below and not wait inactive at some boulder windbreaker, they had no cooker, also lost. They would have kept warmer and alive by active climbing above, than the more dangerous diving into the windy snowing on their NE side just to get to camp 2-3 hours away (probably 3-4 if descending amidst storm). Or the middle option, to wait a break off or easing off snowing, freezing their hinds while waiting at some rock. I believe someone as Mallory would have taken the most positive option of the three. But it was in their way down that stepping over fresh snow, Mallory must have lost the much exhausted Irvine over the side. He did not left him behind.

[@pendragonU]

@M A mess left behind because "assumed" oxygen equipment problem is just one of many guesses, their problem at that camp was less probably caused by oxygen equipment (actually, Irvine was the most expert with the new equipment than Mallory or anyone else in the expedition) and more probably caused by the loss of a cooker earlier, and they would have tried to do something around about, which must have been highly frustrating before long quitting all as it was, deciding finally into moving on and dont lose more time. In other words, not much to do in camp than to take off and Carpe Diem.

[@bryansackett4208]

what a call to action this video is, I am 28 years old as of writing this and man do I dream of one day climbing on Everest. Im not so much interested in the summit but more of the archaeological aspect of it, and yes I know that may be disrespectful to the unfortunate. But I do believe that most people who climb Everest in this manner did so with the intent of some kind of notoriety. I feel that either of these two men would be most pleased that their impact on the world would come once again. We should go and look!

[@stargazerspark4499]

We're going to need some oxygen tanks, crampons, ice axes, tents, ropes, 2 weeks worth of food & provisions, satellite phones, plane tickets to the Himalayas and a troop of Sherpa guides. And maybe a high altitude rescue chopper on call just in case. GoFundMe campaign anyone?

[@bellabon9076]

@@stargazerspark4499 You might want to rethink the amount of food etc. that you'll need. Everest expeditions take at least 60 days. A lot of that time is to allow for acclimation. Even base camp is too high to just fly into and stay without risking death from altitude sickness.

[@ryanmccarthy8625]

If given a sufficient amount of time to acclimate to those extreme altitudes, I would take a shot for the sake of searching for Irvine's body. Personally, I'm not interested in a summit attempt because that's already been done to death by countless people. Furthermore, both he and Mallory should be recovered from that mountain and shipped back to the UK for a proper burial.

[@thag7749]

Mallory and Irving made it to the summit because it is what I choose to believe!

[@HunterofInvisibleGame]

lack of oxygen & daylight

[@reecegunningham]

Very interesting. I'm obsessed with this mystery

[@BillSikes.]

Me to

[@m1k119]

Such a detaily observation , Thank you

[@kathymatyas4427]

Hope the mystery gets solved! Such an interesting story.

[@thehatefuleight]

I think Irvine is still alive wandering around up there looking for his ice axe.

[@manbearpig3507]

recently heard about Mallory and Irvine, knew the story of Hillary and tenzig. this story I find so much more intriguing for obvious reasons. by no means an expert however seems to me they took Norton's route to the great couloir, zig zagged up to the 3rd step where Odell was quoted as seeing their silhouette's at 12:50 and stated in his belief they went higher than Norton . from there I think they would've been compelled to summit, on the descent they switch oxygen they had left just b4 1st step. slightly further down route where Irvine's axe was found something happens they fall, Mallory's body was found nearly directly below that point. in theory Irvine should be close by or kept falling n lost to the mountain. just a theory, makes sense to me but could be way wrong

[@gauge6513]

The amount of guessing here is absurd. How would anyone know what happened in 1924 during a blizzard?

[@GMan958]

People made accurate guesses in more difficult geographical conditions and further back in time (oil/mine searching, paleontologists etc). So nothing wrong with guessing, the problem is that the truth has not been obtained, even if the body is found it would be almost impossible to determine the exact cause of death or if they summited or not.

[@gsmith6230]

Tom Your work has been fantastic ,and Mallory would be happy that you kept his memory Alive all those years on the mountain ,Can I ask you if Jake Norton has searched this area ,and is it filled with Snow ,Mike Tracy another modern climber using modern pictures claims there is an anomaly on the ledge where you drew the 6foot comparison mark only during low snow ,i implore you to look and give us your expert opinion please

[@Thingolfin]

Good presentation. At 4:07 he mentioned a french team that could not pass the 2nd step in 1981. But why? 6 years before a chinese team had installed a metal ladder there, which is still used by todays climbers.

[@korbendallas71]

Fascinating and well delivered. I hope someday that he will be found. Some of the most recent posts (at the time of this comment) are saying the Chinese got the camera and moved the body.

[@YvesStuessi]

Great video, I appreciate your work!

[@Ryan-jp3mh]

I saw a new video of drones delivering medications to camp 3, so if they can go that high, why can we use them to search that area?

[@GMan958]

While the location you mention may be possible for Irvine's resting site, your interpretation of Odell's comments appear to be inaccurate. If Odell saw them from high up the mountain as you indicate (other people place Odell further down the mountain) then he would have not described them as 2 moving dots but probably as "I saw them clearly or as human silhouettes", most likely he saw them further up the mountain at the third step, I agree with you that they did not climb the second step but tried to go around and ascended to the third step via the couloir and that is what Odell saw. If in fact Odell saw them at the 1st step at 12:50pm AND on the way back to camp with nothing to show for as you indicate, they had plenty of oxygen left and from the first step they could have easily returned to their camp even before the storm hit them around 2pm. If for whatever reason they weathered the storm in the open around the 1st step from 2-4pm they still had a chance to comeback to camp before darkness. Mallory's goggles were found inside his pocket not in his face which indicates that it was dark as they were descending, the final fall could have been as a result of an accident, they were injured up the mountain, lack of oxygen, or many other reasons.

[@vaneeshladia]

Assuming Mallory didnt have a second goggle, darkness comes around 715pm and thats when he falls. So I think they waited to storm to die out till 4pm at second step, having given up climbing it. They start back at 4 or so and by 715 when darkness came, Mallory fell. Irvines Axe is one biggest clue. No body leaves an axe. It fell when he tried to put both hands on the rope to stall Mallorys fall. He got dragged by it and some where during the fall the rope broke. Irvines body has to be in the line with 30 degree variations on either side of Mallorys.

[@vitanus]

I saw in another video that from Odells position, it would have been impossible to see them climb the first step or second step. It is probably as you say, they were seen climbing the third step via the couloir as it would have been utterly impossible to free climb the second step, the gear doesnt even make that much of a difference since its almost impossible even with modern gear. The evidence show that they very likely made it past the third step

[@billcook4768]

Dumb question - couldn’t Odell have simply been mistaken?

[@alexk2652]

@@billcook4768 possibly yes. He maybe got the step location wrong, saw some birds or made the whole thing up. But its the best info we have and open to all sorts of interpretation. The michael tracy videos do a solid explanation and I follow his theory.

[@GMan958]

@@billcook4768 Of course it is possible...everything is possible, what we need to analyze is "how likely"...in 1924 only 2 steps were known and Odell initially mentions that he saw them moving past the 2nd step and onto the summit ridge...so the most possible explanation of what he saw is that at 12:50pm they were traversing what today is known as the 3rd step and onto the summit ridge. The counter argument to this theory is that if they left Camp V at 6am then they would have made it to the third step in almost 7 hours, which I think is what it takes today with much better equipment a known/safer route already laid with rope, there is no indication or documentation as to the departure time so if they left by 4 or 5 am it is more plausible that they actually made it to the 3rd step by 12:50pm. I personally think that Mallory and Irvine took Norton's route (as it would have been impossible to climb the actual 2nd step that day) went up the couloir and emerged by/around the third step at 12:50pm as described by Odell, if they made it to the top before the storm hit around 2pm is very unlikely. So if they summited then they must have weathered the storm somewhere between the 3rd step and the summit and eventually summited way past 5pm..assuming a 4 hour return then they should have made it back to camp V by 9pm or so...only God knows what actually happened at this point.

[@ericastier1646]

ironically if Odel had found their bodies in 1929 and determined they did not summit, the whole affair would be almost forgotten but the mystery around their fate has made them iconic figures. They could not have done better short of coming back alive AND summited. I almost think that it's better for their fate to be shrouded in mystery than if they had returned alive and said "we couldn't make it to the top." High Up there in the thin air they probably couldn't think clearly, but lower in altitude remembering their families would make made them abort and their names would be unknown today.

[@AiraCamille]

We need to find him ASAP!

[@BillSikes.]

People have been searching for years, he's gone forever, he'll never be found

[@Bella.216]

Not after what they did to George Mallory. You realize the expedition group literally chipped him off the mountain and ripped him apart to find that damn camera. Not once but they did it twice. They removed everything from him. They stood on his back picked him up so they could get pictures of his face. Took a chunk of skin off his arm. It's absolutely disgusting so imagine if they find Sandy's body.

[@GarryBurgess]

Maybe NASA has some high resolution images from space that could check that exact spot?

[@andrewnorgrove6487]

Private company's image at greater magnification than nasa That's released to public Plus they give readouts of metal and minerals

[@pauldavis4287]

I don’t know why everyone thinks Mallory failed on the 2nd step. Mallory never gave ANY indication that the 2nd Step was climbable. There is NO proof they attempted it. He and Irvine went under the 2nd step and zig zagged up to the top of the THIRD Step, where Odell saw them, with just the snow slope above…heading to the top.

[@redtomcat1725]

Your information is logical. I hope an effort will result in another search effort.

[@Ronin4614]

Great video. Not many speak about the reduced visibility Mallory and Irvine had after Odell’s final sighting. I really doubt they could summit with the storm coming. The clouds they disappeared into were likely enough to impact their visibility as well. I also wonder how things would have turned out if Mallory had chosen Odell-V-Irvine for his push to the summit?

[@GrazianoDeMaio]

Thankyou! Very clear description! Love it!

[@BillSikes.]

I don't think he'll ever be found, that slope is absolutely huge, to search it properly would mean traversing most of it, a monumental effort that nobody would ever have the means to undertake

[@TheSaxon.]

It all depends exactly where Odell was when viewing Mallory and Irvine. In that small general area, there a parts where you can't see the first step.

[@GMan958]

Correct, also there are many people that place Odell further down the mountain without being able to see the first step...thus what he calls the second step is what we know today as the third step

[@TheSaxon.]

@@GMan958 There's also plenty to support that Mallory favoured the Norton/Great Couloir route and the ridge route would be a back up. If that is the case, Odell would've seen them on/by the 3rd step, which is what he suggests in his original description.

[@donadams5094]

@@TheSaxon. I’ve begun to go down the Mallory/Irvine rabbit hole, and I am surprised at how likely I think it was that they were at the third step. There is a whole subset of Mallory “experts” who take it as certain that Mallory and Irvine followed something close to the modern route on the near ridge, and that Odell saw them at the second step. I’m no expert, but not only does it seem more likely to me that they took the “Norton Route” further down the slope, the description Odell gave of where he saw them matches the third step better than the second. That is where they would have emerged after climbing up the couloir, it matches both the features and location of the step he says they climbed, and it makes much more sense for him to believe they could have reached the summit in just over three hours from that spot than from the second step. Obviously his account could be flawed, and obviously we have no way of knowing with certainty when they left, what route they took, how far they got, or what exactly happened at the end. But from all the possibilities I have seen, their being on the third step at 12:50 makes most sense to me. If that was the case I have to believe they would have made the summit or died trying, and since Mallory at least did NOT die near the summit, I find myself thinking he - or they - may well have made it. If they had turned around short of the summit, it surely would have been because they feared running out both oxygen and daylight. But they seem to have run out of both, so they pushed too far, which must mean they were close enough to risk it all. Even from the second step, which is a relatively easy 45 minutes or so to the third step, it’s hard to imagine them going so far that they ran out of both oxygen and daylight but didn’t make it to the summit. The fact that the picture of Mallory’s wife he said he would leave at the summit wasn’t on him offers interesting (albeit inconclusive) support for the idea that they *did* make it.

[@TheSaxon.]

@@donadams5094 They also should've checked for summit rocks on Mallory's body, which would've been a massive indication, as one of the aims was to procure rocks from the summit. I also think the times favour them reaching the summit, or at least taking and making progress along the Couloir route because if they took the ridge route and couldn't climb the 2nd step, they certainly would've headed back for camp in daylight and time to spare. Having a fall on the "relatively" easy terrain around the first step, in daylight, wouldn't have been very likely at all, though far from impossible. The evidence suggests they were on this terrain at night, suggesting they must have been travelling back from a much further distance than the 2nd step. Of course, any number of things could've transpired and unless we find Irvine, there will never be definitive proof and probably not even then.

[@kw19193]

Much respect to Holzel for his enduring interest in and dedication to solving this mystery, but . . . Not seen in this presentation is the image that Holzel claims is Irvine's body, but it (whatever it is) appears to be wrapped in something . . . which Holzel believed was a sleeping roll. The problem with this is that the two climbers almost certainly would not have taken their sleeping rolls with them on their ascent. Unlike current expeditions M & I's support team was scant, all of one person, and the terrain above their camp 6 was largely, though not completely, unknown. Not the sort of conditions that would inspire one to say, "Well, let's take our sleeping rolls along shall we . . ." Energy conservation was everything, even carrying oxygen prior to the '24 expedition had been thought of as unnecessary kit that would only slow the climber. That said, Holzel is, I am sure, looking in the right area. If only someone was as determined as he is and mounted an expedition with the sole purpose being the discovery of Irvine's remains rather than the summit. Easier said than done. Cheers!

[@tomholzel251]

That was the Chinese description. It was probably has wind-frazzled clothing.

[@GMan958]

Actually they brought 2 additional sleeping bags from camp v to camp vi...Odell only found 2 sleeping bags inside the tent so it is very very likely that they did bring 2 sleeping bags to the ascent. As you mentioned the terrain was unknown beyond the second step (may be even the 1st step) so the idea of bringing a sleeping bag in case of an emergency or to extend the chances of a summit late on the day makes perfect sense to me.

[@kw19193]

@@GMan958 That's very interesting, but it does pose some intriguing questions. Would the two men have attempted the second step with oxygen bottles and sleeping rolls? I don't know, but it does seem, to me at least, odd that they would lug them along. That said, we do know that the early Brit expeditions were all about minimizing kit on summit pushes. And on a related note, I seem to recall reading something that stated Holzel's Irvine spot has been investigated by a team some years back and that nothing was found. But my recollection may be wrong there. If you've not already have a looksee at Michael Tracy's posts on Irvine. He hypothesizes that Mallory decided to follow Norton's failed ascent up the couloir to the "zig-zag" route that Norton had spotted. But this fails to account for Norton's statement that one reason he turned back was that in places the snow was knee to waist deep, an impossible obstacle immo. Finally, Mallory was a ridge climber and Odell a trained observer so I, for one, accept that M & I were seen atop the second step. After that, who knows . . ? Cheers!

[@Ms_MalRkey]

I read somewhere that when they asked the Chinese climber why he thought the body was of an "English" he said because they were wearing braces to keep their trousers up...

[@exiledknight3961]

I am pretty sure they did check out the area he is talking about about a year after this video and found nothing.

[@mn-nf3dd]

If you read Odell's description of where he saw M&I he puts them 600 ft below the summit. The second step does not have a snow field that was crossed, as Odell describes. He knew Mallory had a turn around time of 4pm and stated they were able to make the summit. Mallory wrote he would not take the ridge as the steps were unclimbable. Why Holzel can't take what a trained observer saw and the statements of the climber himself, I don' understand. The rest of Holzel's opinion are just that, his opinion. He wasn't there, can't say Mallory got hit by his ice axe or anything else as fact. No wonder Synnott and Pollard found nothing in 2019.

[@agentolshki1690]

Also never heard abour the ice axe head injury is there a detailed description of his body ive only seen the discovery footage of his body semi covered up

[@ken_dog180]

Just a hypothesis, from another investigator. Can't remeber his name

[@bryanmiller6110]

Conrad Anker noted an injury to Mallory’s head consistent with you’d see if it was caused by an ice axe. It was also said the injury is probably what killed him.

[@earlspencer7863]

I've also read this but no public photos of his face exist. However if you look at the photos available you see that the body was not in perfect condition and had other post mortem trauma perhaps caused by vultures. I think the exact cause of death is just speculation.

[@bauciaq2817]

Was this location checked? Or are there planes for reaserch? If the body was seen by 1960 chineese climber, it might be Irvine, or one of the members of "unofficial" Soviet 1952 expedition.

[@leftjabrighthook]

Extremely difficult to check random crevices above 8000m, anything outside of the goal (to summit) would be crazy and dangerous.

[@earlspencer7863]

But yet they found Mallory. Chinese climber specifically said body was English.

[@scorpio4080]

Is there any follow up to this video ? Can anyone direct me to any updated material as to this location ?

[@vnyman339]

theres an article about high altitude drone taking precise pictures of mt everest. someone should send one of those drones to verify if irvines body is actually theres and then send a human team to get the camera if it is there

[@BackstageMusicChannel]

We did exactly that in 2019, the subject of our expedition is a National Geographic documentary called Lost On Everest, also featured in the July 2020 issue of National Geographic Magazine. The drones saved us immeasurable time and exposure to risk.

[@vnyman339]

​@@BackstageMusicChannel i googled it and looks like you didnt find the body..sad. where can i watch that documentary? is it available for people from finland in some streaming site? the whole mallory and irvine mystery is very interesting to me, if i had the physical fitness and money needed i'd go search for the body lol

[@BackstageMusicChannel]

​@@vnyman339 I've been told that if you have the subscription service on KZbin you can stream a slightly different version. It's a bit longer, but the integrity of the film is the exact same. Mark Synnott's book, The Third Pole, comes out in April 2021. It will very possibly close the chapter on the need to search again on the north face. He reveals things that just can't be covered in the span of an hour in a documentary on television.

[@kelleyodil1844]

Hello Mr. Holzel, I am not a climber, however, that has never diminished my thirst and desire to understand the many elements and intricacies that make up, not only the various types of climbing there are to understand, but the mindset of the climber as well. That said, forgive me if I fail to grasp certain perspectives based on my novice understanding of the craft itself. My first, of many future questions I am sure, is this: what was the rationale with these early British trailblazers to take the route from C6 (1924) over towards the Norton high point (zig zag route) instead of the more accepted modern route along the northeast ridge? Mind you, my perspective is a bit skewed having never been on a Himalayan Mountain, but it seems to me based on the countless documentaries and, wonderful examination you have provided, that the Mallory & Irvine, as well as Norton, routes are more jagged or difficult and would make more sense if they simply took the current ridge line working their way over the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd steps in a progressive natural order. My second question is, how close are we at possibly finding the location of Andrew Irvine's remains? I read in one of the comments that there is something special coming out in the July 2020 edition of National Geographic? Because I have not been able to find conclusive news on the current status regarding the search for Irvine. To be honest, and I am aware this is a hugely sensitive and debated topic, I am a little surprised that this search has not been funded exhaustively following the successful discovery of George Mallory in 1999. I am wondering why someone like Dave Hahn, David Breashears, Pete Athens, or perhaps Simone Moro have not spearheaded a search with their rank and profile in the climbing community. In the case for the latter, I have no idea if he has real interest in this, but his overall experience in terms of climbing in the winter months, as well as his search and rescue experience, might put him in a strong position to take part in such a unique expedition - plus he might be crazy enough to give it a go. At any rate, I hope you can shed some light on my questions and intrigue. Thank you for your time and expertise. - Michael

[@stayclean777]

Hi Michael, this may help answer your 1st question... kzbin.info/www/bejne/aISqg3aXfM-NnJI

[@kelleyodil1844]

@@stayclean777 outstanding account! really fascinating points in your shared video. to be honest, this has reinforced my belief that M&I were at the 3rd step at 12:50 based solely on Odell's accounts and the breakdown of this video. I realize that some under the elite climbing community find it extremely difficult to believe that M&I could technically solve the 2nd step let alone endure the conditions in their 1924 clothing. However, I will politely disagree with this based on my feelings based on the men and their constitution for the times coming from the WWI era. Just my opinion though. At any rate, I was a bit disappointed with the recent search for Irvine by Mark Synnott and Renan Ozturk. Though I greatly anticipate the photographic evidence that will be produced by this expedition, it seems to me that they focused far too much on the summit and halfheartedly made an effort to find Irvine. Only Mark traversed through the Holzel search area and he did so when his focus and energy were clearly taxed at this stage. Even the Sherpa seemed confused by this move which is also strange considering that this was seemingly what they had come to investigate. I wonder how Holzel felt about them discounting his theory and making the assumption that Irvine was simply washed down the mountain in an avalanche. What are your thoughts? Thank you again!

[@stayclean777]

@@kelleyodil1844 I'm impressed by that link too, glad you found it helpful. The main thing I got from it, that makes me think they could have summited, was that the Second Step was never an issue, Mallory had no intention of trying it. He followed up on his team mate Norton's immediately preceding effort, traversing along the north face below the Second Step (which hadn't been named yet) to what became known as the Norton Couloir...setting a new altitude record to within a few hundred feet of the summit without supplemental oxygen. Norton reported that he could have made the summit w/O2. So why would Mallory waste any effort on the monstrous Second Step? I think they wrote it off as a possibility. Mallory refers to perhaps "going along the ridgeline tomorrow" in his last note to Odell. That's part of what's maybe confused people, they equate that with them having had to conquer the 2nd Step. I'm not a climber, take my opinion for what it's worth. But Michael Tracy (author of the linked piece) being a climber who summited Everest, and seeming to make perfect sense, changed my mind...or rather educated it. If Odell's earliest account is trustworthy, and why shouldn't it be... I'd bet now that they did make it, traversing below the impassable (in their circumstances) 2nd Step to the Norton Couloir and up to where Odell saw them cresting part of the 3rd step, with still adequate time to make the summit. Maybe the unfortunately intense passing blizzard foiled them fwiw...not sure re. timing. As to where Irvine's body might be, and how they fell, etc., there's another shorter vid by Tracy with his best educated guess, maybe you've seen it? Apparently he had a chance to personally check the spot in 2018 and doesn't seem to think it relevant any more, says in the comments somewhere. Not sure if that's relevant re. the recent expedition you refer to. Cheers! kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5DZqWx5l6lqqM0

[@kelleyodil1844]

@@stayclean777 Thank you Art. I will certainly check out your link to follow up with Irvine. Did you happen to catch the recent 'Lost on Everest' with Mark Synnott and Renan Ozturk? Though I am excited about the enhanced visual depictions of the Yellow Band, I was a bit disappointed by their overall effort to search for Irvine after it was seemingly pumped up to a great extent. Jake Norton has done some extensive scouting, if you will, of the Yellow Band and was there the day Mallory was found. You can check out a few of my comments on Jake's videos if you're interested. At any rate, admittedly, I was unaware that Mallory & Irvine could actually bypass the 2nd step entirely. When Conrad Anker tried it in 'The Wildest Dream' without the Chinese ladder, he was under the distinct impression that there was no way Mallory could achieve that feat. So, how could someone of Conrad's ilk be unaware, or at least consider, that Mallory & Irvine would simply bypass the 2nd step altogether? Are we missing something?? :) Thanks again.

[@stayclean777]

@@kelleyodil1844 I hear you Michael, re. Conrad Anker in "The Wildest Dream". How a climber of his knowledge and experience would assume Mallory had to climb the Second Step to have summited...I don't get that! Jake Norton too, and many others apparently. I was actually going to mention this issue re. Anker specifically in my previous answer, lol. I just don't fathom it. Seems obvious now that Mallory was too smart to scout the Second Step and see it as anything but (under their circumstances) an insurmountable obstacle to be avoided. Especially when Norton (the other one!) had so nearly succeeded via the couloir route with no O2 just a few days before. Certainly the 2nd Step/ridgeline route, ladder in place, is a lot less scary for non-expert clients than the '24 route. I dunno, maybe the 2nd Step fixation shows that great climbers too can fall victim to groupthink? Good point, it's a head scratcher. Re. "Lost On Everest"...I couldn't get much from it either. I'll look again and see if I missed something.

[@wolfgang6028]

Very exciting. I also read yours and Audreys book. But hasnt been there a search already in that area you are pointing to?

[@alvaroortiz9346]

And arent there any expedition for only to find Irvines body?

[@Bella.216]

They had one in 2019 but totally botched it. They did look at that rock slot that he said that Irvine was spotted. Irvine wasn't there nor was it big enough to hold a body. They said it was a illusion. If you follow Jake Norton who was there when George Mallory was found he has went back and searched several times since Mallory but hasn't been able to find him. He's not there anymore, the Chinese supposedly took his body and still has it. I read the interview with the Chinese who spotted Irvine and he finally said that they found both bodies and found some equipment but the evidence was destroyed when he was put in a work camp. They had the evidence but held it due to they want to be the first successful summit on the North side. Irvine is gone, if he wasn't moved then they would have found him already. Very sad

[@MutieThePig]

Intriguing and a very compelling argument. How practical would it be to have a climber look there, specifically with the intention of finding Irving? Could the area be photographed with modern hi-res cameras from any useful angle to give better footage? I know it is way too high for any helicopter but surely an airplane could make a pass?

[@martynnotman3467]

Its too dangerous at that altitude to risk someone elses life for a corpse. No matter how historical.

[@gabyu]

Helicopters could go up and shoot photos. I've seen a French pilot flew over the summit.

[@earlspencer7863]

Drones are possible but you'd have to have good weather.

[@agentolshki1690]

They may have simply been seperated and mallory not injured and independantly headed down unable to see or reach eachother if still in shouting range before he fell cos he made it a long way still.

[@boogeymanblues99]

The fracture to Mallory's leg was pretty severe, I don't think he could have made it far with an injury that serious, as this guy predicts. He most likely would have slid down a distance but I can't imagine him climbing through the yellow band with a fractured leg. I think they probably were separated and Mallory fell later on his way down..

[@onlyme972]

Why is it assumed that it was Mallory who fell, is it possible that Irvine fell catching Malory without warning and both falling

[@kiwicory100]

Mr Holzel, since Mark has not found Irvine and since their drone expedition has not located Irvine or even Mallory again, do you think that both bodies have been removed? We went to Everest base camp 5 yrs ago, just prior to the climbing season, and virtually no one was at the base camp. This is on the Nepal side. Would it be possible to "remove" bodies off season unobserved? Also, the Chinese climbers Japanese partner said the body he discovered had a hole in his face (vague reference) you could fit two fingers in. So it seems very strange that both Irvine and Mallory have holes in their faces...Tom Pollard reported hole in Mallory's head. So if both bodies are different they both have holes in their heads? Also, If the rope between Irvine and Mallory had been broken, would Irvine have left his axe, especially since there appears to be now conflicting information as to the actual weather conditions observed. This stuff is making me a little crazy and is hard to keep straight...esp since I watched the BBC program about the 1999 find of George Mallory by Hahn, Anker et al. and that Anker found two other bodies in his search before Mallory, but according to Tom Pollard, as of 3 days ago, Anker did not find any other bodies other than Mallory. Lastly, the camera you show, I believe is at least in the right era, but confusingly, Howard Somervale's nephew pulls a camera out of his pocket,,,,a VPK Model B, and claims this is the type of camera everyone is looking for. Aye aye. Only a few months ago, I guess now Tom Pollard interviewed someone at Eastman Kodak, who clearly stated the VPK Model B was not available for sale. So how much of this story is truly screwed up then, is my question. My feeling is Irvine, if he is to be found, will coincidentally be found on or around the anniversary of the climb, no rock, no camera. Or the bodies, even Mallory's now, are gone....and who is responsible for this? Then I found myself wondering, "hell wonder if someone killed them?" Trotsky style? I don't know...I think you may not see this post as it is old but maybe some day we may know, who knows.

[@bentyrrell8083]

Does anyone have any info on weather the rope broke or was cut?? Meaning when he went over, did Irvine cut him away??

[@winkieblink7625]

I’ve been fascinated about climbing Everest my whole life. My condition must have a name. Any ideas?

[@LotsofStuffYT]

catcme syndrome (can't afford to climb Mt. Everest syndrome)

[@yourface07]

Must just bite certain people. I have no interest whatsoever of climbing any mountain, not out of fear but just completely uninterested in myself climbing.

[@saddlecrew7]

i don't know what to call it but I am infected

[@WhiteGuysMadder]

Everaddict

[@dodpr]

Whats next? Another expedition next year? Mr. Holzel have you had a chance to review that drone footage?

[@griffith500tvr]

I doubt they ever bothered trying the Second Step, especially considering Norton took the couloir route.

[@robkennedy79]

I keep expecting him to do some magic with the wand he is holding!

[@michaelbelmont5305]

I think Irvine fell first... I think he is very likely below mallorys final resting place....who knows for sure....the mountaineering mentality of if you ain't risking your waysting?......that's mere perspective...everything that's anything is a matter of perspective....therefore I'll sit back and watch from afar....the reason he hasn't been found is probably because he fell first and into a Glacier bottom.

[@andrewmulligan6844]

Excellent presentation. I thought Odell was a scientist known for his accurate conservations. And Mallory was carrying a photo of his wife to leave on the summit. That was not in his procession.

[@toniwertman4818]

I think we need a new photograph. As Irvine didn’t seem to be in this spot anymore. Either he fell into the abyss or it was the wrong place that was searched.

[@MrVorpalsword]

the bit I liked best was - when he showed the 6' object on the photo (that pricked my ears up), immediately followed by, " actually I drew it in there". Umm

[@andrewallan9205]

Interesting info, thanks

[@namiksmajovic6449]

In fact, you sir, just like us who follow you and all the other experts on the subject, have no idea what happened and where and how far they were. 

[@GolfDad]

Did they ever go look?

[@michaelmello42]

If you've just discovered this story and are craving more information, you should go here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGiuqomBpNVmqcU (5-part series) - then here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/a4O8aq2IpbZ4nJo and then here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/bniTl4GhoJmaZqM. Must-read books on the subject (all available on Audible.com) are (1) The Third Pole: Mystery, Obsession, and Death on Mount Everest (By Mark Synnott), (2) Into the Silence: The Great War, Mallory, and the Conquest of Everest (By Wade Davis) and (3) Climbing Everest: The Writings of George Mallory (By George Mallory). Last but not least, you should go here: kzbin.info/aero/PLAogaA2i6jZt2RfgXJmw-bo1z6E2nKxfY. Finally, you might also consider going here: kzbin.infovideos

[@1970cgb]

So u dont think they made the summit ,and had to turn back ?

[@cejka30]

Nice video, it would be amazing if they found him and the camera! Someone should send a drone over that area.

[@drew65sep]

Doubtful a drone even being able to work in air so thin...I would think anyway.

[@samfoster4176]

A drone has never been past base camp accept for one

[@drew65sep]

@@samfoster4176 I'm not certain, but how far can a helicopter go before the air gets too thin and it loses lift? 12,000-15,000ft?

[@samfoster4176]

@@drew65sep I'm not sure how far a helicopter can go but of you've seen the film Everest you'll see they try and bring a helicopter up the mountain and it struggles I'm not sure how high it was when it eventually landed and I'm not sure how accurate it is to the real event which was of course the 1996 disaster. Newer technology might of led to more drones/ helicopters being able to go high up the mountain but as Mallory's body is very high up the mountain I'm not sure how hard it'll be to send one

[@drew65sep]

@@samfoster4176 I'm certainly no pilot, but I know a little about how aeronautics/aerodynamics work. I agree that with the advancements in technology and man-made materials (polymers etc), our questions may be moot at this point. A lot has to do with air density versus the actual weight of the craft, surface areas of blades, wings, blah, blah, blah, their shape, and how the air flows across them, that supplies the "lift." Maybe a drone with very wide blades might work? Or perhaps a weather balloon type of thing? (Wind speeds up there may make that suggestion pretty stupid) I've never been past 5000ft in altitude, so I've got no idea. But, now that I've bored the sht out of a bunch of people, and set myself up as "troll" bait...it's time for me to shut the fk up lol...Stay well.

[@ripleymaxlady]

Why not use drones near where Mallory’s body then go to different areas and see if they can find Irvine’s body?

[@chaikammeng]

Drone can’t flight u to that altitude

[@lorismartinoperfetto8327]

As they haven't found anything in 2019, is there still a possibility to find Irvine right where Tom Holzel thinks he is?

[@danklordsupreme8864]

My logical mind says that Irvine fell into a crevasse and is buried under thousands of tons of ice. However, the storyteller in me believes the camera will indeed be found one day with Mallory and Irvine atop the world.

[@baaiiimmmm]

yes ! exactly what i thought, there's also a possibility irvine fell into crevasse

[@laurieannrogan1317]

It's very sad what he said that his face was dark with frostbite. I was hoping that somehow with the cold and ice and snow he could have been better preserved. It's really sad. I wonder if the body is indeed or Irvine's

[@davefloyd9443]

Mallory was face down in the place where he slid to a halt and died, he was frozen into the slope, face down and his head covered in rocks. Frostbite only blackens living flesh, as Mallory's bleached white back demonstrates. If the corpse that was seen had a black face then that means the face was exposed whilst still alive. Did Irvine lay on his back and die slowly enough for his face to be frostbitten?

[@raginald7mars408]

I love to have this "Wall-Photo". The first Photo of Mallory found shows the broken "Rope" - pointing Downhill- when Mallory fell and Irvine holding the "Rope" uphill - I expect the "rope" pointing uphill.. Did Sandy fall first down? Down deeper? When the" English Dead" was found - what Souvenirs did the "finders" take? the nice American Camera? Or did the High Altitude sick Mallory forget more vital things to take with him...Where is the Boot? How can the Boot get off? lots of Questions to ask...may be never to answer - like JFK assasination...

[@stargazerspark4499]

Its at least encouraging to think that Irvine's body could be found and that he didnt fall over the cliff into China. And perhaps still on his person is that elusive camera, undisturbed for decades, with intact film that could finally put the mystery to rest. Regardless the hazardous progress they acheived going beyond the absolute limits of human endurance assures them a place in history.

[@baaiiimmmm]

exactly what i thought, and i also thought there's a possibility that Sandy fall into crevasse

[@advanceddarkness3]

My man, when people are hit by vehicles the first thing they lose is their shoes, it could of easily fallen off in the fall.

[@raginald7mars408]

@@advanceddarkness3 falls off Easily like any Mountaineer with falling off shoes... and sits right next to the bare foot with the easy fallen off sock to put it right back on... easy...

[@timeslip7532]

Please do. Will somebody please find Irvine?

[@jackjcm7057]

Lets find Irvine - I want an expedition.

[@javierst7474]

Could will the chinese goverment take Irvine´s body after 1975? I think it´s very posible because the body desn´t appear. The chinese were the first who climbed the North Face in 75, the same route Mallory followed

[@greatTVfXQchiel]

I think so, too.

[@Paul-ty1bv]

Robert Redford makes some great points.

[@jcarry5214]

How do you feel about the conclusions drawn in the National Geographic documentary? I just watched it and while the effort was admirable it seemed unfocused. I was aggravated that they summited and apparently did nothing to inform the sherpas of what they were there for until it was time to spend a few minutes wandering around. yes they did more than I ever will but I really didn't feel like "I didn't find irvine so therefore he's not there anymore" was the best conclusion. Maybe that search time was more comprehensive than it seemed. What do you think?

[@T_Mo271]

They were making a video program, not conducting a proper search.

[@drstrangelove4998]

Odell was renowned for his visual acuity and saw M&I going strong on the second step, before the cloud closed in and obscured his view through the telescope.

[@srijanme]

Maybe it was the 2nd step or maybe it was the first step. Nobody knows for sure and even Odell seemed confused where he saw them in later interviews.

[@davefloyd9443]

Also there is a photo taken at 6pm on the day M&I made their summit bid, it shows clear skies and no plume streaming off the summit indicating low to no wind. If they had summited they would have been decending at that time, in good conditions.

[@phd1313]

Nice theory!! The only objection I have is the fact that you are convinced they didn't came any further than the second step. 2 questions: 1) why do you assume, apart from odells multi interpretable observation, they took the ridge route while this wasnt Mallory's plan and no one ever took that route before? 2) How do you explain that Mallory wasnt wearing his sun goggles when found? They reached the 2nd step around 1 p.m. at most. Turning around should place them in the camp before sunset, even with the delay of the snow storm. If you consider summiting darkness fell shortly after descending and approx around the first fall.

[@paraconti4738]

Why doesn't anyone go and check it out once and for all? With GPS as a guide it seems very doable.

[@againnotavailable]

I have been searching for such a video for quite some time. Thank you so much for the information. Do you know whether Jochen Hemmleb is still active on the subject?

[@scottmarcuss]

He recently posted a video on this subject

[@againnotavailable]

@@scottmarcuss This one? kzbin.info/www/bejne/hp_MmXeDZ9Jqis0

[@tomgnau]

"We should go and look." Great walk-off line. Harder done than said at 8,000 meters, but great advice.

[@kingbee48185]

I believe Mallory pushed for and made the summit. But the price was likely to descend as fast as possible. Much of the evidence suggests they failed on the descent. However, what makes all these folks think that the camera was in the possession of Irvine? Mallory was the mastermind of the expedition, I am thinking that camera was in his possession.

[@christophercripps7639]

I seem to recall reading a translation of the 1960 sighting as "Old English dead."

[@vijaysridhar351]

reading where ??

[@workdevice7808]

It was a Chinese climber in 1975 who said that. And he was exactly right how he described it. It turned out to be George Mallory's body that they found 25 years later based on his description.

[@bethbartlett5692]

Mallory was found May 1, 1999. ❤

[@wbbwtfo]

Has anybody ever flown a new drone with a great camera up to check this slot?

[@gingerbiscuits2998]

FACINATING

[@alexmartins5286]

Do you believe it is possible before the Olympics chinese came to clean montain and bodies as per what the local people say at the base camp?

[@paulmorgan4369]

Hogwash, pure self-indulgence. On the basis of this so called research a group of mountaineers went to have a look. Of course he wasn't there but they put their lives at risk because "he can't be anywhere else." The real reason for this kind of so-called investigation is that a number of researchers are simply obsessed with Mallory. They don't give a stuff about Irvine but obsess about Mallory due to his personality.

[@theNetworkCH]

There are a handful of sherpas who have already summited 10-20 times. Clearly it's possible for one of them to go and look at this spot, which isn't far off the beaten track.

[@vestland3877]

Are you willing to pay up?