The Rise and Fall of Cahokia: North America’s First City

[@SciShow]

Grab your subscription to the Awesome Socks Club before December 11! Go to awesomesocks.club/ to learn more!

[@kaylapetre1093]

Why does my tongue cramp? I mean I get it’s a muscle but like why hasn’t it evolved to not do that?

[@woodstockjon420]

@@kaylapetre1093 best question ever!!!

[@kaylapetre1093]

@@woodstockjon420 it’s true it’s annoying why can’t it just not happen

[@hallowacko]

The Mississippians made another outpost up north, near me! Look up Aztalan :)

[@JoseMartinez-df2db]

Are the socks padded on the bottom. I work standing up and I need socks that are thicker on the soles for comfort.

[@BLooDCoMPleX]

I think most people here would appreciate a scishow-archeology channel.

[@ClaudiaCarranza1]

We'll have to suggest during their yearly 'what's next' survey

[@ValeriePallaoro]

@Fk Ff not the same; it's in the name "Eons" Archeology is the story of humankind through excavation of sites and the analysis of artefacts

[@ValeriePallaoro]

I would watch that .. I sooo would

[@emceha]

@@ValeriePallaoro yeah, archaeology for humans, palaEONtology for fossils

[@deanc9453]

+

[@Jaycalsun]

I’m from Cahokia. The modern Cahokia is over 300 years old, and is a few miles from the ancient city. It’s a wonderful site and everyone should visit.

[@WmLatin]

Me too- at least I grew up there. I was going to note that the map beginning at 10:20 shows _modern_ Cahokia- South of Illinoistown (ESL) and North of Dupo- more clearly than the mound area. Some might be confused by it.

[@carolwalters7069]

@@WmLatin : My family moved to Cahokia (now Cahokia Heights) in 1967 when I entered middle school. We lived there until I graduated from high school in 1972. I met my future husband there as well. Today, it's not the Cahokia I grew up with. So much dilapidation of the village, many homes burned out. Mine and my husband's family's old homes are still standing but many no longer exist. It looks sad today. A lot of old history in that town still exists with the Jarrot Mansion, the Holy Family Church & school, the old Court House across highway 3. A wonder if the local history of the village is even taught anymore. It was a nice little town.

[@crankycat5222]

I used to live their

[@dreamleaf6784]

​@@crankycat5222There*

[@shawnpitman876]

"a few miles" LOL What? you're like 30+ miles from it. The city of St. Louis is the one that's "a few miles" from it.

[@tec-jones5445]

I love Misssissippian cultures! They're underrated even as far as pre-colonial American civilizations go. Great video SciShow.

[@tysparks598]

I spent a summer at Wickliffe Mounds in Kentucky, it's really fascinating, the mound builders. Sadly, back in the 60s, a highway was built thru the area before they understood the cultural significance, much was lost. Not all. It's a neat place if you ever get to visit, Wickliffe, KY.

[@tec-jones5445]

@@tysparks598 Thats sadly the case with a lot of sites. But at least some survived. I'll have to keep that in mind if I'm ever in Kentucky. Thanks for the tip.

[@croakmcgloak3568]

Mississippi stupid lol

[@croakmcgloak3568]

@Mullerornis Mississippi stupid lol

[@blitsriderfield4099]

I visited the Cahokia mounds last year. while we were visiting, we learned about how the walls were made and how Monk's Mound was built. We were almost immediately reminded of Motte and Bailey style castles.

[@bordenfleetwood5773]

If anyone hasn't been to Cahokia, I HIGHLY recommend it. The place is basically a huge mound of dirt, sure, but it puts new meaning to the term "earthwork." There's really no easy comparison to make.

[@christinacody5845]

They also have a museum that's worth visiting (although from my recollection, it hasn't changes much since I was a kid 30 years ago).

[@Laker24772]

@@christinacody5845 I am a current volunteer at the interpretative center at Cahokia mounds, and I can say that if you do ever visit again, that there have been additions (a new fossilized canoe for example) and renovations over the past decade. While I wouldn't claim it is a drastically overhauled experience compared to 30 yrs ago (i wasn't alive then so i couldn't really say), i can tell you there are ongoing additions and changes. For example, over the next year they are adding an augmented reality software where people can see plausible images of the buildings and commerce that scatter the mounds.

[@Gadflymcmanus43]

Our family enjoyed visiting Cahokia. It’s really an amazing place historically and to my memory not well covered in school if at all. The interpretive center is great with descriptive exhibits and a lot of good souvenirs.

[@Yuhsir2099]

@@christinacody5845 worth taking a trip again this year. They just finished a huge renovation of the museum

[@MichaelfromtheGraves]

The museum alone is worth the visit IMO

[@RyanAlexanderBloom]

What I find interesting is how the rise and fall Chaco is roughly contemporaneous with Cahokia. I had ancestors in the Mississippian culture so I assume some may have lived at Cahokia at some point. I don’t know what they called it either. Something pretty big happened over the whole continent from the 1000s to the 1300s, and then it went south.

[@SwampGas703]

I was thinking the same thing... Mesa Verde too.

[@Reedstilt]

The time period for both corresponds to the Great Drought that occurred during the Medieval Warm Period. When the Drought and the Warm Period end, these sites go into decline.

[@RyanAlexanderBloom]

@@Reedstilt that seems counterintuitive, but I’m sure that had something to do with it. Chaco is so incredibly bone dry that it’s hard to imagine that the climate being warmer or dryer would allow civilization at any level. Much less a huge population center out there. Seems backwards.

[@RyanAlexanderBloom]

@@SwampGas703 indeed. They hung on a bit longer and their biggest building surge was actually right after Chaco was abandoned. But ultimately the same fate. I actually live in the rio grande rift area and the population soared here too in the 1300s and 1400s. I could walk to multiple large Pueblo structures from my house. Probably 20 or more within 5 miles of here. Tyuonyi, Tsankawi, Navawi, Ottowi, Tsirege.... same culture as Chaco more or less. Probably a lot of refugees.

[@Reedstilt]

​@@RyanAlexanderBloom I'm not entirely sure how the Medieval Warm Period affected the Southwest. The Great Drought technically refers to conditions on the Plains and the Mississippi Valley. It might not have extended to Chaco. I've considered the idea that the drought may have forced people to congregate into smaller areas that remained arable, only to disperse again when conditions improved. Too often the question is framed as "Why did Cahokia fail?" and not "Why did all these smaller successor communities succeed?"

[@cdizzy13]

I live about 5 miles from Monks Mound, lived even closer as a kid, we still walk the trails and climb the mound every once in a while. Climbing those steps up Monks Mound really puts the scale into perspective. Great views from the top as well.

[@NewMexico1912]

The Puebloan culture is really underrated. The cities and culture they built is far less speculative. Since most of the Pueblo’s still exist and their history is pretty well known

[@kevbrand8824]

B-town woop woop

[@matthewmann8969]

It needs more documentaries and narrations like the Aztec, Mayan, Inca, And Olmec civilizations get

[@my-love404]

an impossible problem and something else sanskarimathematics.blogspot.com/2020/11/impossible-problem.html?m=1

[@GoodmansGhost]

@Mullerornis This city died before Columbus arrived, try again.

[@DallasMay]

@@GoodmansGhost Europeans may or may not have had an affect on the downfall of this culture, but there is still a White Supremacy reason why you don't ever hear about them. When the area was discovered by white settlers -despite obviously being a massive archeological find- the settlers didn't believe Indians living this far north could build such cities. "The Aztecs? Sure, but not our Indians." The US refused to acknowledge that it was a city at all and instead taught that it was some really amazing geological feature.

[@xanv8051]

Try a book

[@papa_pt]

@Mullerornis let me remind you that "Native American" and white are blanket terms which each cover groups of peoples with hundreds of languages and traditions. Just as Europeans slaughtered each other for centuries, mutually unintelligible Native American tribes pillaged and warred amongst each other long before mean ol whity came to America

[@marykatetrausch7684]

One of my anthropology professors said that one possible collapse scenario that is discussed is that their over-dependence on corn caused them to be well fed but malnourished and eventually it was too difficult to get balanced diets once hunters were having to go further and further from the main mound complex to find game.

[@Justin-bv3gi]

I beleive the europeans came as well around that time. So those defensive positions may have been against that. European diseases killed 90% of all aboriginal people around that time.

[@phenom568]

@@Justin-bv3gi Europeans didn't land in North America until almost 150 years after Cahokia was abandoned.

[@MossyMozart]

As much as I love corn, it is not a complete protein. It must be in a diet that includes foods that are already complete (fish, poultry, meat) or eat it with other incomplete, but complementary proteins, like tortillas and beans. Maybe the floods referenced in the video severely effected the food chain.

[@SewolHoONCE]

The Europeans had a similar experience of well-fed,malnourished. I could not persuade the restaurant to serve corn/maize to my group because the Germans thought something was dangerous about it.

[@BearlyNoticeable]

@@phenom568 Leif Erikson's group landed in Newfoundland around 1000 CE, and diseases they brought could have travelled across trade routes.

[@justotech1]

I've been there. It's fascinating to think that people walked around in that area 1000s of years ago. You can actually see St. Louis from the top of the big mound. It's worth a visit, if you're in STL.

[@sailor5853]

It's difficult to find a place people didn't walked on a thousand years ago.

[@paleolithique]

what really messes me up to think about is the idea that STL was settled & was successful (at least until railroads made river transport less vital) for virtually the same reason Cahokia must have been. two different groups of people, separated by centuries, looked at the confluence of the mississippi & missouri rivers and thought, "that would be a really good place to build a city." the cahokia/greater st louis area was a city and trade hub, abandoned, and then settled as a completely different city and trade hub. in that way the two cities are inextricably linked.

[@ManzanitaStarwood]

Just started a role-playing game set in Cahokia - Coyote & Crow! Created by an indigenous design team - so cool.

[@berrythemagicaleagle9857]

Ah that explains how popcorn is made they use c-4

[@kellbing]

Good one!

[@Mirandorl]

Was searching comments for explosives joke. Was not disappointed.

[@crystalwolcott4744]

quality joke friend

[@WillPhil290]

Witty... Lol

[@LightBlueVans]

hah! 🥁

[@eurogryphon]

The museum across the road from Monk's Mound has a lot of interesting information, as well as a detailed timeline of the archeological digs that have occurred in the area for over 100 years.

[@threecatsdancing]

My paleoanthropologist uncle who focused his studies on Native Americans used "cahokia" as an interjection, to mean something like "wow" or "oh my gosh". He also regularly used the word "dickensian" to mean something was dumb or lame. He was such a dork. I miss him.

[@abcdeshole]

Wow you had a cool uncle.

[@_ad667]

Watching this from on top of the Monks mound at Cahokia. Thanks so much!!

[@joanfregapane8683]

Cahokia Mounds is in my birth area in Southern Illinois. It’s a fantastic place to visit- such amazing history!

[@taylorsmith5178]

I’ve watched Scishow every night before bed since 2013, now I can’t sleep without their voices. When I hear that familiar intro tune it’s like a Pavlovian response, works better than melatonin!

[@StopChangingUsernamesYouTube]

The more I hear and read about the history of North and South America, the more I wish I could know what could've been if the native population was able to remain mostly-undisturbed by European settlers. Like, how differently would it have developed compared to the Afro-Eurasian cultures? I wouldn't exactly be here if happened, and I'll never know what could've been, but I still wish I could know.

[@Erin-000]

I think of this often too. It's quite heartbreaking.

[@ChristoffRevan]

​@@Erin-000Cultures rise and fall, nothing to get emotional about.

[@Erin-000]

@ChristoffRevan you okay?

[@ChristoffRevan]

@@Erin-000 The person getting pressed about ancient people they never met having their culture gone is asking ME if I'm ok? Sure buddy, I'm definitely the one that needs help (being sarcastic here if you couldn't tell)

[@Erin-000]

@@ChristoffRevan I can tell the sarcasm but your sentiment is still unclear, are you being genuine? Do you believe it's strange to feel emotional about people that not that long ago were pillaged and raped where I currently live and their great grandchildren are still our neighbors. Have you no empathy?

[@alien9279]

"One thing we so know for sure, these ancient people didn't have any awesome socks, unlike you!"

[@DallasMay]

But... do we really know they didn't have awesome socks?

[@Aeronor2001]

@@DallasMay If they did, they didn't get them from awesomesocks.club!

[@schrodingerscat4503]

Sometimes I feel bad about how comparatively little we know about pre colonial Native American societies, but then I watch videos like this and wonder how much we’ve just overlooked.

[@SubSkrub]

I know this video is a few years old now, but if you're interested in this subject, Milo Rossi (miniminuteman) has a really good video on Cahokia too

[@NathanaelFosaaen]

The one AncientAmericas did is also excellent.

[@ClockworkGriffin]

This was such a great video! I've worked with a bunch of Archaeologists who have worked at Cahokia (including my Boss!) I sadly have not had the chance to work there but have visited the site a couple of times. It's quite amazing and the interpretative center is the best I've ever seen!

[@EcceJack]

That was *really* interesting! I've recently been learning more about the cultures of North America (mostly via KZbin videos like this one, if I'm honest!), and there's just so much I've never known!!

[@Yookusagra]

That was a pretty good treatment of this mysterious and fascinating subject. Thank you, SciShow, for making it. I had the privilege of visiting Cahokia and climbing Monk's Mound a few months ago - you can see the Saint Louis skyline from the top. It's much higher up than it seems from the ground! The fact that it was built by manual labor, moving materials basket by basket - and the fact that there are hundreds of other mounds built the same way - is so overwhelming and impressive. I challenge anyone not to be moved by the audacity and ingenuity of our Native American forebears when they see Cahokia. We must better protect these sites, and protect and cherish our Native brothers and sisters who live today as well.

[@rachel_sj]

I haven’t visited Cahokia (yet), but I did visit the Aztalan Mississippian site outside of Madison WI in September. It was pretty fascinating to see what was left behind, imagine what life was like for people living there and interacting with other groups of people, learn about the history of how people found the site, and the efforts to restore its Indigenous Sovereignty. You can find a list of other smaller Mississippian culture sites here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Mississippian_sites?wprov=sfti1

[@rhanson1124]

This is perfect timing. I'm taking American History Pre 1877 as a course in college. Chapter 1 covers the Mississippian culture and the Cahokians only you added scientific information that I didn't know concerning the archaeological processes used where we only learned that it took archaeology to find out about these ancient Americans.

[@mileswright7294]

I live 20 minutes from Cahokia Mounds and I clicked on this 5 seconds after this video was posted

[@TrannyWillis]

About the same distance on the MO side, clicked on it at 8 minutes. And you can tell who is near it since we say "Cahokia Mounds" instead of just "Cahokia."🙃

[@EvanRustMakes]

I used to live in St. Louis and visited there 3 times. Pretty fun walking around the place and going into the center.

[@weldmaster80]

I'm also fairly close used to live right up the street from there now living west of the lue

[@976eviltitans4]

Where do you live? I live in Granite city!

[@darkangel21892]

@@976eviltitans4 Pinckneyville lol small world

[@smokeyjoe6814]

This is amazingly well done! Unfortunately the interpretive center (museum) is closed right now but the grounds are still open! You can walk up Monks Mound and go check out the fascinating Mound 72 and WoodHenge.

[@UGNAvalon]

I love how this video was a subtle exploration of “we can learn a lot about people even without written records” ! 😆

[@radRadiolarian]

this is the earliest i've been to a scishow video

[@Sentientmatter8]

Same.

[@Tech2001]

Discoveries like this make me annoyed we haven’t preserved more.

[@codename495]

How pray tell do you suggest we go back to the 1300’s and preserve this?

[@HIFLY01]

How do we preserve untreated wood thats from 700 years ago exactly?

[@sebastienh1100]

Who is « we » in your comment ? Cultures without writing have always disappeared, that’s life.

[@cancan-wq9un]

Not really. Steppe people didnt use writings as much but they survived. The major problem with destruction of cultures is colonialism for a while.

[@StefanieReamer]

A city I leave near actually destroyed multiple mounds from the Mississippian culture, but they don’t even acknowledge it. They built three mounds on the site, but claim they represent more modern tribes. It really irks me.

[@i8764theKevassitant]

Ancient Americans the youtube channel has a fantastic video on cahokia. Selilo falls should have a video too.

[@davidottley2739]

So- what you're telling me, John, is that corn is basically... THE BOMB!?!? ...I always knew corn was cool.

[@PoopyArchaeology]

Yo that map at 1:23 and poop schematic at 7:39 are from my article, kinda neat

[@amandawhite9235]

That’s awesome!

[@cezarcatalin1406]

Corn: When in doubt, use C4

[@yangree4213]

I love it

[@Xaiff]

I don't really understand the reference, but I agree.

[@darrenswails]

@@Xaiff c4 is also an explosive, maybe that's what he was referencing..

[@Jimera0]

@@Xaiff people not getting Mythbuster references is making me very sad and old feeling

[@Sara3346]

@@darrenswails Isn't it also a specific type of photosynthesis that uses less water or is my memory broken?

[@joeseg19]

Hank makes my day so much better. Thanks Hank! 🥰

[@LEDewey_MD]

The year 1350? That sounds pretty close to the beginning of the "Little Ice Age". In other words, climate change, possibly leading to crop failures, etc.

[@Dragrath1]

Yep also note that the rise of the civilization correlates strongly with the start of the Medieval warm period and the associated Medieval Mega Drought conditions dated from tree rings and sediments to around 900 to 1400 AD or so. In particular most of the Great Plains turned from Grassland to hot desert (complete with rolling sand dunes like the Sahara or parts of Death Valley today) This it seems probable that like Egypt and Sumer over in the old world rapidly expanded when the Middle East Arabia and North Africa dried up the same sort of thing may have taken place in North America. Given that abnormally wet conditions were fairly prevalent through the "Little Ice Age" and the highly stratified and likely oppressive conditions for whoever was stuck in the lower class the people might just have said screw it the rains are back lets go back to living like our ancestors or something.

[@MossyMozart]

@LEDewey_MD - Maybe not. Per a certain online encyclopedia : _"The period has been conventionally defined as extending from the 16th to the 19th centuries, but some experts prefer an alternative timespan from about 1300 to about 1850."_ Depends on your expert of choice.

[@harry.tallbelt6707]

Whoa, I tried to find a good documentary or anything popular about the Mississippian culture not that long ago and couldn't manage to. Little did I knew, that at the same time you were working on this script. I love it so much! I like how you didn't only speak about things we know, but also explained how we found out about them and what the things we still don't understand are. I love when popular science does all three of those, and not only the first part. Thanks a lot to all the SciShow team! 🙏

[@victoriawilliams2786]

I haven't thought about that area and civilization in a long time. I used to have a good fiction novel based in that area. If I remember correctly the authors were a married couple. One was a historian I believe. At any rate, they studied the area, people etc...extensively for the novel so they could depict everything as accurately as possible. It was a really good read. Thank-you so much for the video!!!

[@y.pt.1807]

People of the Cahokia by Michael & Kathleen Gear. Excellent 4 book series

[@victoriawilliams2786]

@@y.pt.1807 Thank-you!!!

[@WebWingRecords]

I love this! I grew up about 10 minutes away from this site and visited often growing up. It's a great place to go for a walk and have a picnic! I even have a friend who works at the visitors center

[@cielrobinson]

THANK YOU we need more vids like this!!! some more vids on other less known indigenous civilizations would be awesome!

[@benburgess9428]

I grew up in the Saint Louis metro area. The River basins around there are still used for agriculture to the present day, especially for corn.

[@richardnance2934]

I LOVE modern anthropologists and archeologists of today because they actually TELL THE TRUTH about what they discover and, try to theorize instead of glorifying Europeans (breaking noses off of ancient artifacts), regardless if it makes them UNPOPULAR or not… THANK YOU to ALL OF YOU!

[@Blueskybuffalo]

I have no idea who you’re referencing.

[@larrote6467]

Ja! As if dude. Teotihuacàn is way older than cahokia, tis is stll anglospheric

[@andrew24601]

Of course y’all launch a charity sock subscription the year I deep clean my room and find three thousand socks... damn it!

[@Engitainment]

This was my favourite part of early history in university - something we rarely get taught about in schools

[@morganaradelt1715]

I never comment, but this is something I had to share because of what just happened because of watching this video. My mom is allergic to corn-based products and also is sensitive to milk and sugar beets. During this video, Hank mentions how they can determine the presence of corn because of the isotopes left behind by the C4 glucose molecule. That got me thinking about it, so I started digging and discovered that tetrose (C4H804) is the glucose molecule found in maize. It's also the basis for glactose. Glactose is found in, among other things, lactose and beet sugar. In short, thank you Hank (and all those who work on SciShow). Your video on Cahokia has solved a decades old mystery that might now give my mom the opportunity to live a healthier lifestyle.

[@jacksonleclerc]

Cahokia is absolutely not North America's first city. There were cities in Mexico and Central America long before Cahokia. Tikal (which is mentioned in this video), predates Cahokia by almost 1,000 years.

[@melissas.2905]

I live south of Cahokia Mounds, and was super excited to see it featured here! I learned something about my area. Thank you!

[@JustMeJH]

Amazing what we can find out by piecing together many clues. I would love any follow ups on this topic. Thanks!

[@seraphoftheend8132]

What a genius idea, I used to wear my socks a whole year till I get new Jones from granny at christmas, changing every month Sure is an upgrade. I like it.

[@amthomas1542]

I went there for a field trip in middle school the monk mound was super cool

[@Sternendeuter364]

I am simply amazed by the things we can find out about the past. Great video!

[@darkangel21892]

By St Louis, in Southern Illinois. It's the only thing to see here lol. A lot of stairs though

[@marykatetrausch7684]

Yes and I highly recommend you paying attention to your hydration if you decide to climb the mound when there’s a heat index over 100. You might develop heat stroke and feel terrible while driving back to Carbondale... not like I’m speaking from experience or anything... 😔

[@darkangel21892]

Here is referring to Southern Illinois. Which is the place I live, implied by the sentence structure and the video content. I am educated. There are other comments with far worse grammar than mine. You must be bored to harass an unpopular comment of a 6 month old video...

[@Space_Cadet_]

Has anyone else never heard of this place? I'm from Massachusetts so I could tell you all about the first settlers and the American revolution, but I had no idea this place existed until now.

[@OrganicGreens]

Most school kids go there multiple times in the St. Louis area.

[@jimbrewer498]

I know all about this I'm from Illinois and through a series of happy accidents, excavations just south of Peoria uncovered what amounts to a Middle Mississipian cemetary. After the archaeologists and anthropologists did their thing they left everything in place, put a roof over it, walkways in it and sent school kids like me on fielfield trips to it.

[@KnighteMinistriez]

If you are reading this, have a good day.

[@DARKWIZRDDUDE]

I live in st Louis you can visit old remains of cohokia, it's cool the first time and those dirt mounds are huge

[@Goblin_Mom]

this is fascinating but i also can't help but wonder how much history about this place may have been lost over centuries of colonization, genocide, and systematic destruction of indigenous culture and oral tradition

[@artemis_smith]

The city itself didn't fall to European colonizers, but you're right that its memory may have been destroyed, which would just be another in the long list of tragedies and horrors felt by the first peoples of this continent. Hopefully a day comes soon when humans live peacefully, without causing misery to our fellows.

[@Goblin_Mom]

@@artemis_smith i know the city didn't fall to colonizers, i just watched the same video you did lol

[@PoopyArchaeology]

Cahokia mounds as it appears today was once apart of a much larger "Greater Cahokia" that stretched all the way to St. Louis. However, as St. Louis developed in the 1800s many of the mounds there were destroyed - imagine how it would look now if it was all intact - a skyline of mounds

[@anubis2814]

From what we can tell north America had a relative of Quinoa that impacted Cahokia even more than corn because it was so nutritious. Women would breed and care for this plant and harvest it.

[@BaalFridge]

Corn, Squash, potatoes and Beans still feed the world today. The native americans who domesticated and selectively bred those crops are long gone to colonialism.... Yet we still owe them our lives for not starving to death

[@girlsdrinkfeck]

what u on about ?

[@djangojihadl1076]

How are they long gone due to colonialism? You guys didn't bring mortality to our continent

[@romankozak8728]

Tenochtitlan was built long before the Aztecs came along.

[@cubankobra3511]

We need more study in precolumbian American history

[@cowboyhank456]

Fascinating! I've never heard of most of these methods to look back through history and determine things about a society or its people

[@clemarusjr]

I wish u had more modern day ruin pics so we can get the scope of how big it was

[@PoopyArchaeology]

If you have google earth search 'cahokia mounds' turn on terrain in the layers column, and make the view angle go really low - it makes all the mounds pop out and it's fun to see how many you can find

[@MsRosepetal2]

cahokiamounds.org/cahokia-map/

[@threeternity]

Hank Green is sponsoring Hank Green and I’m here for it.

[@freedapeeple4049]

Related reading: 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus by Charles Mann

[@fordhouse8b]

Great book! Also an interesting read, 1493, Uncovering the New World Columbus Created, by the same author. A great and accessible account of the effect the discovery had on the whole world. For example, how both the Columbian Exchange, and silver mining in Peru had significant ramifications for China, fueling both a rise in exports, and a population boom and a further southward shift of its demographic balance.

[@DallasMay]

It's a good book, but it's even really outdated now (which happens to books over time). It really needs a new updated version. So many discoveries have been made over the past 15 years.

[@fordhouse8b]

@@DallasMay Any recommendations for other other more up-to-date books on the subject?

[@DallasMay]

@@fordhouse8b I don't. Not of the same scope. I wish I did.

[@fordhouse8b]

@@DallasMay Thanks.

[@victoriaeads6126]

SCISHOW GOES TIME TEAM! YAAAAAAAY! Also....looking forward to my socks 😎

[@joshua.snyder]

Time Team reference! Geophys for the win!

[@markspencer3612]

Increased food production allowed for more free time , gives rise to tradesmen and artisans , gives rise to more civic projects .

[@hockeyinalabama]

Cahokia - a trade-focused city-state with great bonuses - including the ability to construct the Cahokia Mound which gives +3 gold, +1 amenity (capped at +2), +1 food for every 2 adjacent districts or every district, and +1 housing - when you are their suzerain in Civ VI. Glad to learn more here. Honestly, one should just research everything in Civ.

[@eleethtahgra7182]

Last time I was this early, they were still crossing the Bering Strait.

[@BonaparteBardithion]

@Martin Ramirez We're all the same species, so at some point we probably crossed it one direction or another. Current evidence suggests migration was eastward from Asia. How is this a Eurocentric issue?

[@____________838]

Interesting viewpoint...?

[@BonaparteBardithion]

@Martin Ramirez They crossed the Bering Strait before they diverged into a separate race (and before most modern races existed). Under the current theory, all Homo Sapiens came initially out of Africa. Sure, you had what we could call races (regional differences) and certain populations are believed to have mingled with other Homo species, but they weren't the same races we have now. If modern theories of the spread of humans are correct then at one point your ancestors crossed the Bering Strait. They can't have already been there unless they evolved convergently from a similar ancestor which would make the two populations separate species.

[@KateeAngel]

@Martin Ramirez one species has one origins, from one population, in one place. Otherwise it would not be one species, and interbreeding would be impossible. That is a simple biological fact. It is impossible for populations of different origins to interbreed. Yet we have 300+ million mestizos in the world. Also, there is a lot of evidence of migration through Bering strait, including the genetic relatedness of most ancient Siberian ethnic groups to Native Americans, some cultural similarities, archaeological evidence, palaeogenetics etc. Why is genetic similarity between Native Americans and North Asians bigger than between some ethnic groups in Africa? Because human species originated in Africa so it has the biggest genetic diversity. Surely, there are some people who want to use those scientific facts to promote their stupid white supremacist beliefs, but they can be shut down without denying the actual facts. In reality "indigenous" means the people who were first somewhere, whether they migrated or not, and Native Americans are indigenous, they developed cultures and languages right in the Americas, so earlier migration should not compromise the indigenous status of those groups. Please don't confuse the actual science and ideologues who misuse it for their gain

[@BonaparteBardithion]

@Martin Ramirez Absolutely no one disputes that the indigenous populations were there first long, long before even the earliest Viking-era European settlements in the Americas. Key word: First, not always. Europe has nothing to do with crossing the Bering Strait from Asia. What exactly is this European fantasy?

[@odah7785]

So there’s this grain that’s related to quinoa that the people of Cahokia grew. What’s crazy is that we have samples of that crop at different stages of domestication as well as the wild version still grows on the area.

[@Blabla130]

11:23 "We may not know what socks Middle Mississippians wore, but we know which ones you're going to!"

[@Valhain]

Got to go there for my Native American History class last spring. It was pretty neat. The mounds really gave me the impression that they had the same roots as the Mesoamerican pyramids. Just made of dirt.

[@ReaverPrime]

3:35 "If you have a lot of C-4 plants, they will leave a specific signature behind." Yeah. A smoking crater. 😉

[@nikkolettguyer4913]

Oops to much C4

[@nicholastrimble1310]

This is very interesting. I live in Cahokia currently and we aren’t really taught the history of this place. Loved this video👍🏾

[@keirinmcdonald9398]

Native American cultures! Can’t wait to learn about more !

[@verebellus]

"how do we track population thousands of years ago?" "poop tracking, we track poop"

[@ntm4]

Of course there was a population boom. That's what happens when you eat all that C-4.

[@ViewtifulJoe8463]

I've lived in this area for a long time and never knew any of this. Cahokia was our high school football rivals.

[@ericstoverink6579]

Oddly enough, Cahokia Mounds isn't actually in the modern day city of Cahokia, but in Collinsville.

[@enduringstone]

Would love to see a video on the Etowah Mounds in occupied Mvskoke territory, and more content on pre-colonial turtle island generally.

[@thomasdavis3179]

Mvto

[@zacharyhenderson2902]

We tend to think of ancient North America outside of Mexico as being pretty wild and unpopulated, with temporary houses and isolated peoples living in vast swathes of wilderness being the norm. But in reality it was very much a mirror of the ancient world in Africa and Eurasia, with farming and cities and trade, all across the continents. It's amazing

[@KooblyK]

I imagine the discovery of C-4 corn was fairly explosive news at the time...

[@romigithepope]

Yes! Thank you covering for this! I’m fascinated by Cahokia.

[@likebot.]

So corn uses C-4 photosynthesis. That explains popcorn: little explosions .

[@SorcererDragon]

I think a mysterious city like this would be so much cooler to time travel to than a place like rome. Like: we pretty much know everything about rome. But being able to see how this place would have run would be so cool

[@danielsayre3385]

MORE OF THESE PLEASE

[@nunyabiznes33]

Few games I played in Civ V Cahokia almost always spawn near the Iroquois and is conquered before I encounter them.

[@hyperseele]

"Cahokia might have quite a diverse population" Quite the same as present day USA. "Social unrest, Defensive Palisade Wall" Yup, it is pretty much the same as present day USA.

[@BlaineHeggie]

Definitely a microcosm of present day America

[@rtwfreak2012]

Well, afaik bill gates does not plan on having his workers be buried with him.

[@djangojihadl1076]

@Tonto Y Quiennosabe and how do you know that

[@Reedstilt]

@Tonto Y Quiennosabe "The Great Sun" refers specifically to the leader of the Natchez in Louisiana, who was the highest ranked man of the Sun caste, (the Sun Woman / Female Sun) was the highest ranked woman of the Sun caste, and was typically the Great Sun's sister or aunt. Since the title of Great Sun passed matrilineally, the Sun Woman / Female Sun's child would be the heir, not the Great Sun's kids. Archaeologically, the Natchez are associated with the Plaquemine Mississippians of the lower Mississippi, not the Middle Mississippians. The various Dhegihan peoples (the Osage, Omaha, Kansa, and others) are thought to be the ones most closely related to the Middle Mississippians. Historically, the Osage had a diarchy of sorts, being led by two "gahige" - one from the Crane Clan of the Sky Moiety and one from the Star-That-Came-To-Earth Clan of the Earth Moiety, who served as the "Peace Chief" and "War Chief" respectively. They shared power with the Nonhonzhinga, the elder council. How much of this can be "upstreamed" to Cahokia several centuries earlier is possible to say. But similarly, we can't assume that the political structure of the Natchez in the early 1700s accurately reflects the system employed by their Mississippian ancestors in the 1300s either. Though we do know that one notable, late Plaquemine Mississippian leader, Quigualtum, mocked the idea of a European claiming to be the avatar of the sun in the mid-1500s. And, of course, the Southeastern Mississipians - mostly associated with Muskogean peoples - had yet another system of governance. We know the most about them in the 1500s, an they didn't use "Great Suns" like the Natchez did. They were lead by miccos (among the Muscogee proper), nicos (among the Apalachee), mingos (among the Chickasaw - this one should not be confused with the Mingoes of the Ohio Valley, a neo-Iroquoian identity that emerged in the 1700s in the Ohio Valley) and similar titles. These titles would all remain in place long after what archaeologists refer to as the Mississippian paradigm shifted to the colonial era's grand confederacies.

[@mayoite160]

didn't some of the plains tribes have oral traditions about being urbanised in their past before adopting a nomadic/migratory lifestyle?

[@Nyan_Kitty]

Me, listening to this vid with only half a brain: "Oh, so C4 plants caused a big bang. Cool"

[@HungerGamesFan00]

same

[@jking1343]

How did they manage to do all the building planning and architecture without any written words surviving? I couldn't plan out a table without drawing it and writing stuff down.

[@109Rage]

>North America You seem to mean "North America, excluding anything south of the U.S." considering there were much older cities in Mexico.

[@emyoswald]

I’d guess this is a case of US bias - students here are often taught to separate the continent into North America, Central America, and South America

[@109Rage]

​@@emyoswald As a US person who went to school here and everything, it's still pretty weird to me to exclude Mexico from "North America". But I guess they just wanted to exclude Central America because it gets a lot of attention when talking about pre-columbian civilizations (and pre-columbian civilizations already don't get much attention anyways)

[@BlackSakura33]

They are just mad at people telling them correctly that "America" (USA) is only about 500 years old. Lol it is, no matter how many ancient civilizations existed before, you killed them all now you can't claim their civilizations for yourself.

[@electroflame6188]

Generally, Historians separate between North America, Mesoamerica, and South America when it comes to precolumbian american history.

[@meneither3834]

Yeah my first thought was "the Olmecs were in North America since 1200 BCE."

[@ther3aper561]

I live close to Cahokia in Illinois, it's a really awesome place and the little museum they have there is really nice

[@SalvatoreEscoti]

I wonder if Cahocia had contact to Aztecs, I think yes. Because the architecture resembles that of Mexico.

[@TURTLEISLAND1491]

Indeed, the Cahokian architecture is based off from the influences of the old civilizations which is in Mexico but the Mexicas didn't necessarily have anything to do with Cahokian civilization, it is said that the Mexica ancestors, before they started Aztlan, they had helped and Influence the people of the south, north and Midwest, there is evidence shown that the Seminole nation of Florida gave substantial knowledge to the Mississippian people or Cahokian people from their ancestors, the Mayans. The only people who can be credited to the Cahokian civilization are the people who built it and lived it.

[@gus-vanover]

How To Find Locals: Who calls it "Cahokia Mounds". Anyway, fun fact: Cahokia Mounds may be nearby Cahokia the Town, but it's under the jurisdiction of a different town.

[@thomasmcgormley9100]

I remember visiting Cahokia. It was rather impressive to see the vast quantity of dirt moved by primitive technology.

[@OrinSorinson]

@Scumfuck McDouchefaceyeah, and not even service pack 3 or 2.

[@lapincealinge2]

What do you call primitive technology though ? They didn't have steel beams and bulldozers when they were building Notre Dame de Paris

[@thomasmcgormley9100]

@@lapincealinge2 I call baskets and hands primitive tech

[@lapincealinge2]

@@thomasmcgormley9100 ah yes I see, these folks had a tad more than that though

[@taeuhh9103]

@@thomasmcgormley9100 no

[@itastepaint]

This is one of my favorite places!! So peaceful 🙌❤️🤗

[@magnvss]

Clear Aztec-Mayan type of civilization and migration there. Sadly they didn't have easy access to stone, what would've left not only fascinating ruins but more clues.