The Rise of Mobile "MMOs"

[@factorio4917]

speaking of which....have you ever heard of raid shadows legends? a brand new action rpg that-

[@thorsffe5712]

god dammit not again

[@Mojavekight17]

No more! Stop it!

[@seaweed6492]

Lolololol

[@unocualqu1era]

I was listening to another video before watching this one and heard Raid Shadow Legends right after reading this lmao

[@x_voxelle_x]

The door's over there.

[@TheRexTera]

MMO(Massive Monetization Online)

[@LOOTLORD605]

lol

[@sisco5153]

I thought it stood for money making operation

[@freelanceart1019]

@@sisco5153 morbid monetisation online.

[@orionl7406]

FreelanceArt101 massive microtransaction operation

[@ECKtrain]

no, its Multi Millions Online

[@MukuonChannel]

I mean man... look at those UI's, part of what irks me to these "Mobile MMO" is the complete clusterfuck of a UI. I had thought these games were originally meant to be played on a tablet, but I was wrong.

[@curts7801]

I was playing Word of Kong’s for a while, but every few levels I would have to jump deeper and deeper into the nightmarishly clogged UI. I just couldn’t anymore.

[@MukuonChannel]

@@curts7801 I mean at least in other gacha games, the UI were optimized, decent and sometimes have the option to hide them. If your game got to a point, where it just you can only view your character in a single tile, then I'm putting the game down for good. I've seen less intrusive UI on fucking Steel Battalion.

[@yusun8159]

Well you see, a lot of those MMOs come from Korea, and online games in general from there just have absolutely cluttered UIs for some reason. I don’t know if it’s the culture or people just got used to it over there but from PC to mobile, if a game is made in Korea, you can expect UIs that are more stock trading simulators than something for a game.

[@reddead0514]

As a mobile player I can agree.....

[@netramc5123]

they're not mmo's. They're massive online afk- ers.

[@Xeroism712]

Mobile "MMOs" and mobile games in general are absolutely toxic for the consumer in 99% of the cases

[@kicapanmanis1060]

Homura Akemi Then tell the consumers not to play it then.

[@aiden79797]

Why should we tell then? They can decide for themself If they want spend money and time with a fishy cash grab game.

[@Xeroism712]

@@aiden79797 Because they encourage the industry to make more shiity games as they show that predatory and lazy game development practises and monetization schemes work.

[@MrXboy07]

Arkaine757 they do that and everyone is affected. Why do you think we have many unfinished over monetized games like CoD, fallout76 and anthem?

[@freelanceart1019]

I don't call customers consumers. Mobile games are a parasitic cancer causing agent.

[@cattrucker8257]

To think, that the "MMO killer" could end up being... ruthlessly exploitative mobile games. Talk about an outside-context threat. Here's hoping there'll be some sort of sea change that will put the proper MMO game styles back on the map, and break the super-low-effort, cash-bleeding, stamina-timer, not-actually-MMO sorta games' encroaching menace. Even with phones being able to run old games, the idea still baffles me that 2020 MMOs would "look like" 1999 MMOs. I'm not a graphics fag, it's not that side of things - but I like mechanics more varied than "tap to tap", and there's only so much you can do with mobile controls managing all of your gameplay - it affects how fast the gameplay can get (not very), and how much you can do. They can exist, sure, but to have "the face of world's MMOs today" be a gacha gambling machine instead of a non-shitty WoW or a new and impressive innovation... it just feels wrong, feels like we've regressed and stagnate now.

[@xAvitaLT]

When you make something affordable in this case phones You'll get casuals and again in the case of phones too many of em who have no concept of money worth To quote one genius person "Do you not have phones?"

[@methatguy5996]

Are you the voice inside my head?

[@foxwillis2676]

Games emulated that are worth playing: CataclysmDDA Baldurs Gate Planescape torment Pathos.io Bastion I think terraria is on iOS as well but I may be mistaken

[@kicapanmanis1060]

Nobody wanted to pay for subscription games like Wow other than Wow, this is what you get. Gamers got nobody to blame but themselves.

[@JR-ge9hc]

black desert online is very free to play friendly idk what you’re talking about

[@xanasago]

Death of a Genre: MMOs

[@UberMun]

@jackthegamer this is really a different genre co-opting the MMO name

[@HalikBun]

You could most likely say that "RPG" has been mutated far beyond what it originally meant as well at this point. To be honest, I don't care about the terminology; language changes, as long as people understand what each other means when we say Mobile MMO verses MMO, it would never bother me. As long as the games that were originally denoted by the genre are still being made in some fashion, I'm happy. This is what has me worried about MMOs though, because they are setting all of their hopes on kickstarted projects at this point, and we can see how successful that's been (as in, hasn't really amounted to anything).

[@bling9]

@jackthegamer when was the last time you seen a new Arena Shooter other than Quake Champions, hmmm?

[@ereder1476]

no really, none of thoses game are mmorpg. Auto questing, sometime not even free movement ABSOLUTLY NO TRADING (else you wouldn't use the cash shop to get things! just auto farm on emulator) no RPG aspect whatsoever ... they are all mostly just the minimum requirement to sell digital things. *They are build around the cash shop and not the other way around* . That's why they are sooooo similar to each other ..

[@HeavyMetalGamingHD]

not true at all. the big mmos have still millions and millions of players. the big players alone. the genre is far far away from being dead

[@rougecrown]

One reason why these gacha games with MMO coating rack in so much profits is because it actually has a very large potential player base - the everyday, casual gamers who do not really care what a game is called, but are attracted to the flashy graphics and instant gratification that these games offer. The classic problem with MMO is that it requires a lot of investment from the player - such problem does not exist for these new mobile games, all of which possess an "auto-play" button. I loathe these new games, not because they are not qualified to be called MMO, but because they hardly qualify to be called games anymore.

[@GumshoeClassic]

Exactly.... it is still so baffling to me that some games advertise the fact that you don't need to play them. Yes, people play it because it offers immediate satisfaction seeing the numbers grow.... but I just don't get how people are satisfied by "accomplishing" something if they didn't do anything for it. It feels so.... hollow.

[@hedition9346]

Finally someone in the comment section who is isn't an idiot. Yes the appeal of an mmo is actually quite widespread but the investment demanded is only reasonable to hardcore gamers. Everyone whom I know isn't a gamer had at some point got hooked to an mmo but had since became parents and working adults. And when you enter this phase, time is far far far more precious than money. Spending money to compensate grind is a no brainer.

[@dustinhiggins710]

Ehh, I don't agree with you. Maybe being attracted to the flashy graphics part but not the instant gratification part. For example, Summoners War, which I play and is showcased in this video, has that feel at first, but in reality, it means nothing in the terms of progression. You FEEL like you're getting a lot up front for doing nothing but overall, playing for a bit and actually learning, the stuff they give you is damn useless and will not help you long term. You either start paying, which most people do or grind for hours and hours. The sole reason I think these games are popular is they are addicting, like gambling. You always want that CHANCE at something good. I have tried so many mobile games and this is how they all are. You feel like you get a lot upfront but you're really not. You either spend money, grind for hours with huge wait times and pay walls or quit.

[@echohotelsix]

@@hedition9346 exactly. All these people on the comments saying auto is bad and ruining mmos, yada yada, but as a mmorpg player since the 90s the auto feature really helps a lot. I'm playing mobile mmo with auto feature JUST FOR grinding exp and money, but there are a lot of weekly dungeons and pvp contents that requires manual movement and intense team coordination that requires discord voice chat. I bet almost everyone agree that farming is a boring and painful process.

[@vivid8979]

@@echohotelsix The problem with "Auto" is the progression they make with the Non "Auto" players.. Where the game is a competitive MMO.. And progression is rewarded based in it.. It's an unfair mechanic and at the same time just a hollow achievement.. Imagine WoW or even the lastest MMO on PC having an Auto button that would be really devastating for the game right? So most likely the people enjoying this kind of games are also people who likes the mechanic of auto everything.. But some players who that wants to play games as is kinda leveled to those kind of players.. Which is bonkers..

[@twocatsgaming6628]

That Lineage 2 music in the background is a great choice :). No matter how bad L2 gets, its soundtrack remains one of my favorite.

[@obidjonburhonov6563]

Linage 2 remaster announced

[@DrunkenSailors1]

thing is will they release new servers?

[@obidjonburhonov6563]

Rangomal Vloudas it’ll be like archage unchained so yea fresh start

[@DrunkenSailors1]

@@obidjonburhonov6563 so there is a chance they will reconsider pay to win

[@juanmialen4915]

As soon as i heard that music all the memories from years and years ago came to my mind, what a beautiful game. how lucky we are to have enjoyed it

[@lordofbanana6869]

17:37 "Selling my body for money" is such a RuneScape thing to say

[@FuchsiaShocked]

Suddenly the previously incomprehensible decision for the newest Diablo to be a mobile game makes a degree of sense, in this wider context. I actually probably wouldn't mind mobile 'MMOs', if they weren't so aggressively monetised. I played a couple of the Spacetime Studios ones and I could see the potential there. But I'd still rather play on PC (or console at a push).

[@luketfer]

Blizzard KNEW diablo immortal wouldn't go down well in the West. However IIRC it was actually meant to be announced in as a quiet 'side thing' to Diablo 4 with the hype hopefully burying the press for it. Unfortunately (for Blizzard) the Diablo 4 stuff wasn't ready so it was just Immortal announced...and we all know how that went down. It wasn't helped that it was clear it was aimed at the Chinese market and then Blizzard go and do the whole Blitzchung thing (people need to not forget about that), it was rather clear that Blizzard is trying to slowly switch focus from the West and PC games towards the East and mobile games.

[@shyrory]

I don't even care if they're heavily monetized. But all of them have AUTOPLAY buttons, so you don't even play them anymore, they play themselves while you throw money at the screen.

[@mattatat1138]

Everything is "aggressively monetized"... Every business WANTS to sell you their products. Even your local grocery store does it👌 the whole gas station/convenience store on every other street corner is aggressive marketing.

[@mattatat1138]

@@KickKnete no one is forcing you to play, or to hand over large amounts of money to get anywhere👌 A smart person realizes that the game is rigged against you, and stops playing😂

[@freelanceart1019]

@@mattatat1138 they are FORCING U A paywall that halts you enjoyment and progression!

[@Soridan]

While I do enjoy fiddling with a mobile gacha game every once in a while, I'd rather not have them take over traditional mmorpgs. My biggest fear is that they will try to stay relevant by copying mobile games and we'll get stamina/energy/fuckoffwedontwantyoutoplaynowpayup points with a store option to circumvent that. Timegated content is already bad enough as it is. Not to mention than in my opinion touchscreens as controllers suck big time for anything that's not a turn based or point and click game. But I guess the low effort thrill of gacha roll is more appealing to the masses and I'll have to be the grumpy old man yelling at pixels.

[@planescaped]

It's happening now. Most new Activision and EA games in particular have these mobile game elements in them.

[@Soridan]

@@planescaped I know of microtransactions but not stamina/energy bars. Care to name some examples? I can only think of Archeage's labor points off the top of my head and that's neither EA nor Activision.

[@ShiyoKozuki]

How much further can this genre fall?

[@Philnemba]

Old School Runescape is literally the only good MMO mobile game worth playing on the go especially since it's cross play with PC. Also couldn't help but laugh at the "Pay 2 Win 2: Revolution" clip 😂

[@deinoguy856]

Villagers and heroes is another cross play mmo similar to runescape

[@timothykatch1855]

Have you tried RS3? I played it for a bit, I could see a lot of potential but, it was pretty grindy.

[@OmgItsLeaa]

@@incongruous4 it costs $13k to get max through mtx in that game, at best. Lmao. Its mainly dead because of the devs cancelling content. Still a good game in the core though, if you can see past their mtx.

[@nosidezero]

Cross play? Holy shit

[@lordjorach]

My thoughts exactly

[@Echelon730]

I hate this. Not the video the message that China is so big that it can control all the gaming industry. I hate playing mobile, it feels either inaccurate or that it plays itself.

[@alinobunaga]

Its just that the west is busy playing BR games

[@zzz66688]

The Asian century has already begun, the different cultures of East Asia and their way of life is spreading fast. You can only buckle up and embrace it or just stop playing MMOs all together, up to you really.

[@nilamelody]

Altho you wrote this a year ago, still gonna leave a message to you that if you don't like playing something, just leave it.

[@raaaaaaaaaam496]

@@zzz66688 no China will soon face a total economic collapse. Massive reliance on government jobs for employment is a sign of a faulty economy, its losing its advantage of cheap labor, and the men are disenfranchised and can’t get married due to the gender imbalance because of the one China policy. And when literally hundreds of millions of men are angry then well....bad stuff happens.

[@thefantasticdrill788]

Yeah, MMOs on mobile are abysmal.

[@MechanicWolf85]

Even if I have found some good mobile games for me to play and invest time in, Mobile market is such a train wreck of garbage that I prefer not to bother even opening the App store for games And the worst thing is that there is no sign of changing the bad model it has, and it's affecting mainstream gaming in a negative way I rather spend time on PC, Console or not even bother with gaming if mobile gaming is going to be the norm of the gaming industry Don't go around calling me an elitist, I'm not like those so call gamers that rant like gaming is a religion or something, I love gaming but I won't game just to be relevant, I want entertainment not gambling And sadly it seems gaming is becoming a casino

[@calliph]

I feel this pretty hard. Every once in a while i'll absentmindedly look in the play store for a game and get immediately reminded why I haven't gone on there in a really long time. It's like when you check your empty fridge for something.

[@cattysplat]

You are exactly right about gaming being turned in gambling. I hate gambling and the awful addictions and the spiralling spending that turn into emptied savings and going into debt for one more gamble. There are strict laws against gambling that divide it between gaming, that being that gaming must be a game of skill. If progression in game is now by gambling mechanic, that is no longer a game and is 100% gambling, people need to stop lying to themselves that this is OK, in fact it is incredibly illegal for these "games" to not be labelled as gambling and is simply the law system not catching up to prosecute these gambling games being marketed and played by children.

[@frostreaper1607]

True words, if games collectively end up as gambling sims then I’ll stop gaming because I loathe gambling .

[@vodkawhisperer3923]

The app store has no good games. I only play 2 games. Soul knight and of course flow free, best game in the world.

[@Kiobao]

Same here. Heck my parents go gambling and casino games at home on their phones and going out. I've never gotten into it. I dislike whats happened to phone games since I wouldn't dislike phone games if they did better consumer friendly practices. Too many are gatcha and p2w or filled with ads that it's not even reasonable to waste my phone battery life on them. I wish it was in a better situation but I've found a few OK phone games at least.

[@TheClamoris]

Lineage 2 music.....It puts a tear to my eye, playing an mmo for 10years just to see it's end.

[@elephantofdoom]

The last time I was this early the concept of a mobile game, let alone an MMO on your phone was a foreign concept.

[@MechanicWolf85]

The first Mobile games use to be a good old meme to past time and lought with friends Now they are gambling simulators

[@Keijikrall]

I am not remotely interested in playing a gacha mobile mmo. I'm also harshly judging anyone who willingly plays and/or gives money to these games.

[@Rerpesentz]

I bet i could theory craft an insane Gacha mmorpg sandbox

[@hgg219]

Literally talked about the greatest MMO of all time runescape for a hot minute. When in reality we all know OSRS is by far the superior mobile mmo experience.

[@DridriKon]

Mobile gacha has so much impact it turns some "PC MMOs" into glorified Mobile Gacha games. Just look at Blade & Soul for example. Sad times.

[@Rethice]

As someone who has been deep in the mobile "MMO"/RPG gaming scene since somewhere around 2014, I have to restrain myself from going full "Um, actually..." on the facts in this video...

[@seandouglass9824]

Such as?

[@Rethice]

@@seandouglass9824 The heavy focus on MMO sequels being ported to the mobile medium doesn't do the platform justice. Cash grabs like Maple story mobile or Lineage mobile or even subpar titles that thrive off franchise recognition alone to make sales like Fire Emblem Heroes is only scratching the surface of the mobile MMO/RPG market. As someone as good as digging deeper as NS I was sort of hoping he would dig a little. There are games in the mobile ""MMO" market which have been revolutionising the genre as far back as 2014, Granblue Fantasy being one powerhouse that shouldn't go without mention. Cygames in general is a studio that could warrant a video of their own - especially with the recent controversy about Nintendo throwing them under the bus with Dragalia Lost, a game that reeked far more of Nintendo greed on release than it does now, and yet Nintendo had the gaul to try to pin the poor monetization on their partner, and then go on to make far more absurd mobile releases in the future. While the Triple A industry has been slowly learning from the manipulative tactics of Gacha mechanics and the PC MMO market has been dying in its own inability to adapt and evolve, the mobile "MMO" market has been growing to take its place with a level of polish and depth lacking in more recent PC counterparts. Granblue (Japanese), Azur Lane (Chinese) and Epic Seven (Korean) all bring their own unique flavours to the market, and those are just a few examples of the sort of games I was hoping to see mentioned in a video like this. Don't get caught up on those examples though - not all of them are for everyone, but THAT'S the point. To limit his coverage to the most vapid of examples is obviously going to paint the market in a bad light. As someone who was an avid fan of SWTOR before WoW flopped onto the stage I hope N.S. would understand to look past the titles that excluslvely offer "mainstream" appeal and look for ones that are actually evolving the genre and still going strong. It's a similar perspective to saying WoW is the only PC MMO worth talking about - incredibly surface level. Naturally I could never expect NS to really give a mobile game with a gacha at its core the time of day, and I appreciate that. I don't expect NS to have a perfectly unbias opinion and I really like his analysis, which is why I would never want to harshly calling him out for not being intimately familiar with the topic. It's just that this is one of the topics I could really notice he lacked that intimacy with, while I have a lot (both positive and negative)... So I couldn't help but have a little nerd-out of my own.

[@Na0uta]

I disagree with your stance. But I do not wish to debate you on it. Also I'm sure you just mistyped it, but SWTOR came out much later the WoW. I'm assuming you ment SWG?

[@Rethice]

@@Na0uta I did, thanks for the correction.

[@planescaped]

"Mobile MMOs" Gross...

[@cvkpaper]

mobile anything that isnt an emulator is indeed gross

[@stevenbooker7201]

Ok boomer

[@Vulganot]

The new eve on mobile is great

[@Salty010]

its new era... hate all you want but this thing infested like virus too fast... go on like boomer minded if this thing no one stop it.. i feel 4-5 years people will accept it like it's normal... fak you its not normal!

[@JR-ge9hc]

Salty Wtf r u talking about? black desert on mobile is fine there isn’t no virus

[@calliph]

Computer mmo's were a total grindfest when I used to play them like a decade ago, which for someone like me with very little free time now, totally sucks. I don't even bother looking for mobile mmos because I know the vast vast majority are microtransaction riddled nightmares. Bummer.

[@admiralfrosty3495]

Most of them have this idle, auto-play mode that gets even weirder. You just need to tap a continue screen every now and then to “play”. I’ve gotten bored enough to play them before, and they end up opening up this horrible emptiness after a while.

[@CompComp]

Come play Rune Scape, RS3 and Old School are both on mobile now. They're great games, but they do get grindy in the last game.

[@kingarzal1502]

Most MMO is all About GRINDING...

[@calliph]

@@kingarzal1502 It shouldn't be, or at least be mitigated especially for busy people with limited time to play like me. I tended to gravitate towards pvp oriented games that were not item dependent, so when I finally leveled up I was still able to compete competently. That is hugely lacking in today's market unfortunately.

[@TigerTT]

@@calliph MMOs will never not be all about grinding lol but thats why the item shops offer boosts for people who want them.

[@DJezdic]

This makes me sick to think of mobile gaming, I hope this Chinese market does not kill gaming in America.

[@MechanicWolf85]

I don't think it will, not even in Europe The reason it's popular in China (atlist) is because things like consoles and PC aren't as popular Mobile gaming needs a system like steam to work properly, this anarchy style app store is horrendous

[@DJezdic]

Mobile gaming is stealing creative developers from working on Pc and console projects, Blizzard has said as much. I hate these greedy garbage bags creating games and pushing for a Chinese shill market.

[@Auchaser643]

From the OP to the people who replied mobile has already taken over the amount of revenue in mobile trumps revenue made in console/PC hence why people are doing loot box style in console games stop being delusional

[@PsychadelicoDuck]

I would not blame the Chinese public for Western (and Chinese) publishers' decisions to pursue profits at the expense of morality and customer satisfaction.

[@イリヤ-h7f]

@@MechanicWolf85 PC is really popular in China, but there is also like 50 billion people that live there so it's all relative.

[@tennek127]

Sickens me devs will bring them to mobile more than console...if you’re that obsessed with mobile at least do Switch

[@yashkaushik6116]

Mobile has the biggest player base in the world sadly

[@vireo2543]

The thing is that unfortunately they see it like this: More people have access to a smartphone than a Switch. And they want people to constantly be playing their games because it’s easier to get people to spend if they feel invested in the games.

[@eleongo]

I think it's because they see Switch as single-purpose device: gaming; whereas smartphone is a multi-purpose device. Logically people wouldn't want to bring both outside as they would rather bring one which can do everything else.

[@Unique_Racing]

Switch is mostly children lol bad idea don’t need our children learning to gamble at a young age 🤷‍♂️

[@reptilez13]

Im surprised you didnt bring up Order and Chaos, especially the first one which felt like an actual MMO. I remember playing in like... 2009? 2010? The sequel was a bit more "mobile" like but yeah.

[@MonochromeChromosome]

Was looking for this comment. I played the hell out of the first Order and Chaos online on my iPad. One of, like, 2-3 REAL mmorpgs on mobile devices. Its sequel and Keltic Heroes - that is what we had somewhat close to our beloved genre.

[@rofltehcat]

Ultimately phone games are just bad I guess? The controls are too limited, resulting in the game play forever being doomed. The controls just limit you to standard actions, standard patterns of behaviour, cause a huge feeling of clunkyness, and ultimately limit you to do one thing at a time. Granted, mmos usually don't offer the best gameplay either but remember: that is without the limitation of having a touchscreen as your only control method.

[@cait-eriona2631]

My bank account for sure will thank the Mobile MMO market, why you ask? I won't ever switch to gaming on my phone.

[@Jaswolf7]

Money milking machines on the masses and modern slavery combine, it breaks my heart :'(

[@planescaped]

"A fool and his money are easily parted" "A person is smart, people are dumb" Those two sayings seem to go well together...

[@IdentityChrist]

Oldscool Runescape has way more than 200 players in the same zone on a mobile game.

[@StriKe_jk]

The irony of having a mobile game add at the beginning

[@daveybentley9059]

I’ll start believing in AI when the algorithm can start detecting if the keywords have good or bad connotations in relation to the video.

[@CompComp]

I can't wait for a RuneScape video, dude there's so many great videos you could make just on RS alone. Also the RuneScape 3 mobile beta just launched last month. It sucks on my phone but it's still nice for that DailyScape grind.

[@SpikeRosered]

I see the rise of gaming addiction rising with this trend when you have access to your addiction at all times.

[@vireo2543]

SpikeRosered This. This is exactly what I was trying to explain to my friend when it comes to mobile games but she doesn’t seem to understand it since she doesn’t really have a gaming addiction. I tried to tell her that people with addiction can fall into the trap of these games and spend a ton of money on it and since it’s on their phones it’s always nearby for them to play.

[@zeroanonymity9736]

I really feel like we're on the precipace of something with the potential to be great. I'd love to be able to play MMOs, ACTUAL MMOs, on my mobile device. Like you said though, we're not quite there yet, but someday soon it might be possible.

[@Kneelift2099]

Seriously though, when a fully WoW like game is possible on mobile I'm screwed..... *fingers crossed* lol

[@cylesteasunrise3199]

@@AzureRoxe and black desert is worse on mobile then pc

[@Mysot057]

*playing Black Desert on mobile* Ummmmmmm..... It released like six months ago.

[@masterofhaloben]

The thing is if the right controls could be built i would agree. i dont mind the smaller screen as i would often shrink my screen to add in a second screen for youtube or netflix anyways so i see it coming in the future but we need innovation.

[@SuperPrestonGaming]

Order and Chaos Online, it released in 2011 and was the most similar to Classic WoW I’ve ever seen

[@Makoto03]

i don't even like casual mobile games let alone in depth mmos on it. Te virtual controls of a phone aren't good and the microtransactions are too predatory.

[@Kingofredeyes]

I would love if Secret World was created into an augmented reality game. I mean imagine going about your daily life and then uncovering various conspiracies from the miscellaneous stuff around you. Honestly just a simply mystery game that challenges a players to see the world around themselves in a completely different light could be an amazing experience.

[@achicken4761]

BTW in Belgium RNG lootboxes are banned, maybe such regulation will be applied in other countries :)

[@mrhed0nist]

Order & Chaos, which came out around 2012, was basically WoW-lite. It as a complete mmorpg and as better than a lot of pc games. Its the Asian mobile mmorpgs that are complete trash. Pretty much like the Asian pc mmorpgs, all style no substance.

[@SomeJustice19k]

I said this too! Such a good game. I played it A LOT and still talk to people/friends I met in that game. -Quickben

[@mrhed0nist]

@@SomeJustice19k Yeah. Hunting epic mounts in pvp areas led to some of the most fun pvp I've had in any game. The sequel was crap though and it's kinda been drowned by the sea of Asian mobile mmo flotsam.

[@foxrumor]

I mean most mobile mmos are auto questing. Are you even playing the game?

[@Yamaneko81]

2:40 that lineage 2 soundtrack hitted me right in the nostalgia

[@thunderhammerx2966]

Thats a lot of Final Fantasy Brave Exvius music to not mention the game. It just celebrated its 5th anniversary, is partway through story season three, and the Dark Visions ranked boss rush recurring event they added last year is kinda fun sometimes.

[@Onbu_]

Oh man, some of footage in this video is so hot,that nerdSlayer has to blur it /S

[@berpipo]

Anyone remembers that old Kirby anime? I remember an episode where two vendors created the equivalent of those Kinder choclate eggs where get a toy inside the choclate. They put two types of toys there, Soliders (normal) and galactic warriors (Rare), and of course put more soldier toys then warriors to make bank, people start getting obsessed with the eggs and the whole episode is pretty much a cautionary tale about gacha games. Look where we are now, We failed Kirby everyone, we failed kirby.

[@seelx]

Here's a thought, companies can continue making the casino games the east want to play. But there's plenty of money in the west to support the kind of games we want to play. Companies have gotten so focused on making money in China, that they've abandoned the US market. Seems like a good time for a new company to step in and pick up the market.

[@alecciarosewater7438]

Any good innovation is going to come from small indie studios which currently don't have any room in the market. As a PC gamer I spent the last week poking at the google app store, playing through Bluestacks because I refuse to own a cellphone. I have not found anything worth my time. 2019 has been a terrible year in general. As a pallet cleanser i'll go and play through Freespace 2 again maybe see what the modding community has made recently

[@Safersephiroth777]

And people complain about microtransactions and lootboxes. Since there are so many idiots buying these why companies should stop doing that?

[@efstopp]

Forget Asheron's call, Air Warrior had 300 people in one Theater when it was on AOL in the mid 90s. It launched in the 80s but I don't know how many players they could have online at once when it was just on DoS.

[@insertcoolnamelater9334]

Maybe I'm being a boomer here, but I don't see the appeal of playing MMOs or RPGs on mobile. The touchscreen controls are always bad and clunky. I only play Genshin sometimes when I'm traveling, but only because I can't take my Playstation with me xD

[@repeatpercussion]

I love your channel. Huge fan. I work in a Korean MMO game company and believe that mobile "games" (Korean mobile MMO's to be specific) are not games. Every game is basically the same: automated with intentional design flaws in order to make people to take part in gacha microtransactions. There is a currently ongoing debate on Blind(the app) following the recent release of Lineage 2M on whether gacha mechanics are gambling or not and if Lineage2M has taken it too far.. Most people seem to be able to acknowledge the problem but believe that nothing can be done to fix the problem because large corporations have only one purpose: PROFIT. The need for government intervention is dire but the government here really doesn't seem to care much for fixing things "the right way" and only seem to want to provide quick solutions that profit themselves(game taxes). Fuck I miss the golden days of Korean gaming where companies actually tried to make decent games like War of Genesis, Aim Point, Arcturus and the like. I miss the golden age of gaming in general where we didn't have to deal with the live services bullshit. I fucking hate my job. PS. The reason Koreans go to a net cafe(or PC bangs) are not because they don't have a PC at home but because of the conveniences they provide (ie. good food, pc-bang exclusive buffs for games, etc). Also, many Koreans live with their parents well into their twenties so they also go to net cafes to get away from the nagging of their family members.

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Thanks for the in depth response and feedback.

[@VagrantVideos]

Gotta love the Maplestory music in there because that was the first game I ever played with a Gachapon.

[@Vyleea]

From a monetary point of view has mobile games been the future of gaming for a long time now. And with more powerful mobile devices will the market and the genres of available games only keep growing. PC gaming won't go away any time soon but mobile gaming will, at least in the forseeable future, keep outgrowing it :/

[@billyheaning]

I don't know about you guys, but I've leveled almost all of my Order & Chaos Online (1 & 2 both) characters to max level without paying for a single thing OTHER than 4.99 monthly log-in bonuses. Those two games are about as close to WoW or Guild Wars as conceivably possible without being direct mobile ports. Yeah, they get old after a while, but if you're looking for something like WoW, that's the closest you're gonna get. And with EVE Echoes and Second Galaxy, the sci fi spaceship MMO on mobile is becoming a real thing. Heck, even OS Runescape is on mobile and pretty soon the new Runescape will be on mobile.

[@elise2399]

the only games I really play on my phone are minecraft and knights of the old republic, which both exist on other platforms

[@lokasocba]

You sure like to touch the feelings with that Lineage II music. :)

[@aaron_k4787]

Most koreans have no PCs at homes? Is this 1995? you totally missed on that part man. Popularity of mobile rpg has to do with its ability to play anywhere since Korea has long working hour. Plus people go to PC bang not bc they don't have pc but to play with group of friends. S. Korea is not China lol

[@thepeterjoeshow1016]

Final Fantasy Brave Exvius sure does have some badass music! Thanks for playing it on some of this video.

[@troyX]

Back in 2011, I found Order & Chaos Online to be pretty impressive. It was basically a watered-down version of WoW in your pocket.

[@howtheworldworks3]

Awesome choice of music. Lineage 2 has without a doubt the most nostalgic and wonderful music whenever you listen to it as long as you played the game in the past.

[@Takomuhra]

What's weird to me is that there are so few MMO's that do both. Neverwinter did, they had a minigame for your phone and an MMORPG on PC. The minigame was ridiculously fun too (in my opinion). Through the app, you could manage your market, inventory, crafting and earn rewards you could use ingame in the MMORPG.

[@bobbobson110]

4:57 what's that game called? It has strong Ragnarok Online vibes.

[@orison09]

I like playing some Gacha games on my phone while I wait on the bus or elsewhere. And I don't even spend on them. But I hope these mechanics stay away from big budget games... though we are already getting loot boxes so who knows... :/

[@heroblake6572]

That Lineage music hit me right in the feels! Miss that OG magic.

[@Mezcon2]

Minecraft Earth has been really fun. If you do the daily challenges, you get enough rubies over time to where you dont really need to purchase anything with real money. The only reason I spent any money on the game, which was only 15 dollars, was to buy a plot of land I wanted to build a house. The adventures in AR are awesome.

[@Nilvarcus]

I can definitely see the potential in the mobile gaming when it comes to MMORPG, I just don't see how we get there right now. I only see companies exploiting the monetization even further, and seeing how far they can push it... Actually what NCSOFT is doing with Lineage 2M is really interesting and could work. They are trying to create this bridge between mobile and PC by creating their own emulator/platform, after playing Lineage 2M on their emulator it does feel quite good. With some very minor tweaks, that game on PC could feel like real MMORPG.

[@Nerithielful]

No mention for the Ncsoft Purple ? they anounced their own desktop emulator to play their games from pc

[@JoelBurger]

Why highlight FEH in particular? Its influence and profitability both pale in comparison to something like FGO in that market.

[@イリヤ-h7f]

Probably spent a few hundos on it PepeLaugh

[@Lanadra]

Probably because Fire Emblem is a more recognizable name to western viewers compared to Fate/Grand Order.

[@JoelBurger]

@@Lanadra But that segment of the video (and most of the video as a whole) was specifically about the Eastern market. It's like making a video about the rise of MMOs, but skipping WoW so you could talk about how much money EQ2 made instead.

[@Violent_Wolfen]

Because it's an easier target while playing Final Fantasy Brave Exvius in the background.

[@tengogato]

What about the obvious presence of bots in mobile games? They are quite clearly made by the devs to showcase cash shop features or mimic a community. I notice it in almost every mobile game I try whether it's a menu based gacha or an instanced 3d "MMO".

[@GhostDcuo]

on this one particular occasion an ironic ad for raid shadow legends would have been acceptable, any other time it should be repeatedly burned with fire

[@Axe_Of_Boniface]

Thx for the constant flow of content

[@unusedjynx8172]

My favourite ar game from back in the day. Invizimals. A weird title on the psp that used its camera and reminded me bit of creature capture games. I think those games would go wild just from the looks of pokemon go. Im sure and original IP like invizinmals could be the hottest new phone game but i guess well have to wait n see

[@BirdieImagineeBCH]

I’m kinda surprised that out of all Gacha games, Fate/grand order wasn’t mentioned

[@Demonskunk]

What is the music playing around 7:40? I recognize it.

[@samuel22x]

Dude, this work that u do is amazing. Keep the good work.

[@Jaskan0]

mobile games have the intrinsic flaw of not having a proper input device, i don't want to tap on a screen awkwardly to play something, i want a controller or kbm that and 90% of them are just scams.

[@mechaniqe]

i appreciate the maplestory music in the background while discussing nexon. a nice touch.

[@BADC0FFEE]

MMO as in Mobile Multiplayer Online, the only massively thing those game have is how massive of a scam are. R.I.P. mmorpgs, we had fun.

[@mikadeca4031]

I have a strict no pvp, freemium, mobile games politic. The ones I have are premium, with no server based game mechanics and of course none developed by asian companies.

[@zyclior]

Gunna get hard to say MMMORPG

[@nerdSlayerstudioss]

Oh dear god

[@georgesmith6218]

Is that Gludio theme I hear at 2:15? It's odd a bit since you mentioned Aion and blade and soul, but no word on Lineage 2. edit: you actually put it there. And they added Kamael. No mention about original PC MMO tho, so rude.

[@faye_isc]

im playing Black Desert Mobile 10 hours a day with no boosts from the pearl shop. I only bought character slots & outfits for all my 5 characters armour & weapons bcz i was impatient to craft em all. I really love this game, i adore the graphics & the merchantry system & i can say that it's mindless grinding till lvl 60. After lvl 60 pvp it.s kinda ok. But it.s way better if ur gear is at least lvl 30. The more you do the word bosses & the in-game events, the more free stuff you'll get and it.s a long term game that i.ll play until i'll die. it has auto path & auto fight but i find myself not using them some days when im free to play it on my own. But when i get busy with work or family, im very happy for those features cuz they help me not lose my progress

[@CultoftheCyberSkull]

Good stuff! Always love seeing videos detailing the historical development of a thing, even if its something that I never think of myself (like mobile MMOs...well, except for Raid: Shadow Legends).

[@zakurn1086]

5:00 Ah, the Henesys market music, such nostalgy.

[@macmac436]

When you said "Shifting before our eyes" I think you meant dying before our eyes. Mobile games are truly the back alley gutter of gaming.

[@planescaped]

They're the cheap bathtub meth of video games. Me, I prefer my artisanal hashish...

[@vodkawhisperer3923]

Yes

[@vvvios]

My mother conceived me in a back alley gutter... and even I don't like mobile MMOs lol

[@natecw4164]

Honestly thought it was "Gotcha!" ... as in "Thanks for the money, we gotcha you idiot."

[@eyoshinthemaximum]

I play a smaller known MMO called Wynncraft that only ever has 1,000 people online at a time as its a really small mmo and yet it still feels populated and lively. Small playercounts in MMOs don’t bother me

[@smilinggeneral8870]

anyone know brave frontier? Im still playing it, it's been 7 years.

[@HeadsetHistorian]

What is the music that you use in this video? Particularly 15:40. Thank you.

[@renancolli3700]

I wonder what's the difference between a Gacha and CCGs, are card games a subset of Gacha? You buy packs in order to get the cards you want

[@SuperPrestonGaming]

I’m surprised you didn’t mention Order and Chaos Online published by Gameloft, I think it came out in 2011 and that was a TRUE mobile MMO the most similar to Classic WoW I’ve ever seen. It was a very fun game for the time being

[@StavrosVorkas]

is that lineage 2 Dion song playing in the background?

[@Eric-ff7mu]

What is black desert mobile? I’ve gotten that ad 2 times in row with raid shadow legends, I think it’s absolutely crazy how hard they push these games

[@laz9533]

What's the song at 7:00 ?

[@Chris-oy4bs]

Can someone tell me what the game at 12:42 is ?

[@yabo_san]

mentioned AR mobile games as mmos. I was gonna say that pokemon go has co op raids and a friend system. would that fit your definition of an MMO?

[@greysky1252]

would a 200+ player instance be possible if a game was 2D so there would be less graphics to process?

[@alexevaldez]

Subscribed! Time to marathon this channel! :D

[@jamesbaggett3655]

I was damn near addicted to managing my mission table in the legion companion app.