The Rise of The Machines: John Etchemendy and Fei-Fei Li on Our AI Future | Uncommon Knowledge

[@liallhristendorff5218]

From a purely journalistic point of view, Peter is the best interviewer I’ve ever encountered. He’s also very sharp and informed, although he doesn’t let his knowledge get in the way of letting his guests speak.

[@chrism.1131]

If a machine learns how to "fake" being human, as well as a human does, how do you tell them apart?

[@Gorbyrev]

Perer Robinson is a superlative interviewer. Many thanks for this conversation expertly curated.

[@chanlou6090]

we need more enriching conversations like these. so thank you!

[@Samuel-bu7xr]

22:45 yes! Obesity, anxiety, social media addiction, processed food etc

[@LoisSharbel]

Bliss! I lLOVE these Hoover Institution discussions! Peter Robinson is the best interviewer I've encountered! THANK YOU!!!

[@bobgretchenhollman4159]

Regardless of what you think of Elon Musk, he is right that we need to get our collective minds around this "tool" we call AI. Pandora's box is open. Nefarious activity is already leveraging AI, similar to the advent of the internet but much larger in impact.

[@lawrencefrost9063]

A digital god.

[@rawkvox]

tool hahaahahahaha

[@josephmogga4396]

Every leap feels like a heap. Our task is not to make it cheap. Watching all the way from South Sudan. Thanks, Peter and your Guests.

[@ZoroasterIII]

You might wanna use GPT to improve your poem. :P

[@maryspencer4274]

Waiting on Nobel prize for Dr. Fei Fei, what tremendous perspective of human flourishing.

[@lawrencefrost9063]

They misunderstand Ray Kurzweils argument.

[@johnanthony6201]

Great interview! Obviously on point with topic. I’ve had a difficult time with the whole “Singularity” alarmism and it was great to hear the skepticism expressed by the guests. I guess that’s what’s called confirmation bias but it’s undeniably a great feeling to land on the side of these two highly respected academics!

[@GatherVerse]

Outstanding. You should also add Christopher Lafayette on your program. No regrets will be had.

[@KenVet]

This was very informaitve to me, Thank you.

[@gordonicus4637]

I can tell you having watched my own children interacting with AI apps, that young people find AI generally a lot of fun. They don't appear to be threatened by it, rather they embrace it as a new field of exploration that has opened up for them and broadened their horizons.

[@Mr_Miwazaki]

I think you're over estimating the competency of corrupt politicians and corporations. Also, AI will not be stealing this many jobs that quickly. I'm all for conspiracy theories but this seems like fear mongering to me.

[@lllllllllIIIIIIIIIIl]

​@stephanieellison7834 Boo hoo!

[@chrism.1131]

If a machine learns how to "fake" being human, as well as a human does, how do you tell them apart?

[@anushkie100]

Thank you! Awesome interview!

[@balduran2003]

@23:00 I think this really shows one of the big issues with very smart people. They don't think about the experience of dumb people. Each time we develop a new technology that "changes work" the new jobs are always ones that require more intelligent, creative, and/or competent humans. In other words, the jobs that get replaced are the lower skill, or lower prestige, jobs. We are starting to have AI powered general-purpose robots. "General-purpose". Depending on who you ask, we already have between 5% and 15% of the population that unsuited to any type of productive work for various reasons. What happens to our society when that becomes 50%? I suggest CGP Grey's video "Human's need not apply".

[@James22426]

Past technological advances impacted blue collar workers. AI will impact white collar workers. Engineers, Programmers, Lawyers, Doctors, Financial Advisors, Accountants, Sales Reps, Managers, Directors, Vice Presidents, and CEO’s.

[@neetfreek9921]

tax ai labour to pay for ubi

[@emperorarasaka]

​@@neetfreek9921 Where does the free money come from? Might as well just hire humans at that point.

[@richarddean3154]

I went to high school in Minnesota with a gentleman who does high-level AI work for Microsoft. He is an extremely capable person but I doubt that even he can ensure that AI can be contained within the "intentions of the programmer/creator". No one can give that guarantee with any true certainty.

[@ralphsimpson4593]

Gradually made redundant. I feel much better now.

[@laurelsternberg5861]

great job, as usual , Peter. Thanks from Israel.

[@davidanalyst671]

we need peter to interview Netanyahoo to ask why he forced 1 million civilians out of their homes and has disappeared 30,000 civilians, and what this is called if Iran or Saudi Arabia committed these atrocities, what we would call it, and what we call it when Israel commits atrocities.

[@carvalhoribeiro]

Great conversation. Thanks for sharing this.

[@michaeljacobs4546]

This is refreshing, anything but more on the Middle East or the Central Banking / markets / Economy complex!

[@pattroia9518]

Peter Robinson is the perfect guy for his show!

[@user-yp9nz6bs9q]

How is he the perfect guy? Is it his delirium over Stanford?

[@brianholland997]

Don't have confidence in human nature. Every power will use it to their own benefit, no matter what is moral. The only safety is in competitive checks on power.

[@sammy45654565]

not everyone has to be perfect for the AI to be perfect. everyone shines in different contexts. it will see the good in us and understand that our evolutionary instincts sometimes play tricks on our moral faculties

[@markb8468]

​@sammy45654565 That's wildly optimistic assessment. It will be created by flawed humans with differing priorities. I find it impossible to believe somehow it will be perfect.

[@LostArchivist]

​@@markb8468On the other hand, I believe OP's comment was too far on the other side, being too pessimistic and not accounting for the genuine altruism and agape that occur every day big and small and all across cultures, ages, creeds, socioeconomic spheres etc. The reality is much more frustratingly convoluted and complex.

[@nathankkarren5316]

"It's the subfield of Computer Science that attempts to create machines that can accomplish tasks that *_seem_* to require intelligence." So by John Etchemendy's definition, "Artificial Intelligence" is in the eye of the beholder. I like his definition.

[@Papinka3900]

Being specific about the expense of AI research: min spec for most commercial labs is 10,000 H100 GPU 's. Price tag is $500 million and up just to get started in 1 lab. 1 lab for US universities to share is a good starting point.

[@mpen7873]

Great work 👍👍

[@d4rkside84]

i love to hear people talk that are much smarter then me..... :D

[@travcat756]

Extremely illuminating

[@WiiMii2.0]

“We all live in California, which means we all have some friends in Hollywood” Right.

[@ralphhebgen7067]

25:00… I think this is a key point often glossed over in the debate on the emerging cognitive power of AI. The debate has already polarised: If you suggest that AI will not have a HUMAN cognitive quality, you are labelled as speciest, if you suggest that the human condition is unique, you are labelled a dualist. But let us stand back from this for a moment: Why would it be plausible to expect machine intelligence to be exactly like human intelligence? Machine intelligence will be DIFFERENT, it is likely to develop a richness that has human-ANALOGUES, there will be machine-analogues to emotion, creativity, experience, taste etc. It seems to me that those who allege the machines will be able to do everything a human can do cognitively are limiting the machines to cognitive processes that humans can do. But why would the human condition be a valid benchmark in the first place. It seems to me that we are creating the first non-human intelligence. Let us not limit it by putting human constraints on it. If we are able to solve the problems of control and alignment, the chances are that we will be able, for the first time in human history, to communicate constructively with a non-human intelligence, an intelligence that will complement us in some ways, compete with us in others, and yes, presumably threaten us in yet other ways.

[@scottiestein1]

‘We have to do another show on that one I think’ Peter!

[@kenchang3456]

Excellent discussion. If we are to collectively grow we need more. Thank you for taking this on and bringing it forward.

[@nathanngumi8467]

A great discussion. Artificial Intelligence will surpass agriculture and fossil fuels in disruption of human life on earth.

[@giftretyu]

Peter is just great

[@the_Kurgan]

How can such intelligent people be so foolish? You can't create an entity a million times smarter than you and tell it what to do.

[@arinco3817]

Such a weird interview lol. I wish they would be allowed to speak more without the drama

[@Lofi7557]

This. He kept interrupting and talking over them 😒

[@VivyanLawrence]

Love your work Peter. However This conversation , the guests to me precise looked more philosophical than having nuanced takes or clarifications.

[@snowbirdsurfer2474]

When things were worse, they were better.

[@skyebrows]

John is in for a big surprise regarding the superintelligence question.

[@dembert4666]

Of course they want more government involved - Don't bite the hand that feeds!; if you want a clear and concise refutation on the vision of this anointed class read Thomas Sowell!

[@davidanalyst671]

you are approaching this topic from a tainted government perspective. Elon is right, the AI is more dangerous than nuclear weapons because it can hack the computers that control the weapons. The reason the government needs to be involved is because there are topics in AI that need to be completely inaccessible to AI, such as programming viruses and hacking things. Facebook just released Llamma 3. Who checked lamma 3 to see if it allows you to ask for directions to build an atomic bomb? Who checked to see if it lets you create chlorine gas? The safety of AI's needs to be guardrailed by the government because they are a risk to humanity in a way that no other systems can present. The reason they want a researchers, and not Ted Cruz to create the rules for AI is because researchers will literally just spend their entire day asking the AI for directions to destroy things, create gasses, and all kinds of hazardous things all day, and with more creative ways than Ted Cruz can do. This is the one time. That for your own good. You really need to make sure the AI is safe.... because AI will be more powerful than the USA government eventually. Now when AI reaches that point, do you want the AI that everyone has access to, it took everyonoes jobs, it cured cancer because cancer is a DNA disease, do you want that AI to accidentally explain how to make chlorine gas if you tell it your mother is sick, and the only thing that will make her better is the recipe for chlorine gas? THe way you asked the question indicates that you don't understand the role AI will take in the future.

[@jreese8284]

"Add ethics" to the curricula. Whose ethics, that's the important question!

[@sandrocavali9810]

Impeccable

[@rogerparkhurst5796]

Thus quicker and with less errors and efficient use of resources.

[@Ben_D.]

Gosh these two were patient with their interviewer. He had a great opportunity here, and he blew it on being silly, hyperbolic, and uninformed. 😞 Fei Fei especially, much like AI, is a magnificent resource if you prompt her correctly.

[@ColinChristie1]

If you prompt her correctly! 😂

[@gedofgont1006]

Is she a robot?

[@jazura2]

Uninformed like most of his audience who he is trying to represent

[@tankergas7950]

In the human sphere, data begets information which begets intelligence which begets wisdom...AI is a game changer that has exciting practical applications. But until someone dreams up Artificial Wisdom, humans will remain in the cat bird seat...

[@gedofgont1006]

Sorry, but there is no demonstrable connection between intelligence and wisdom. Intelligence is more or less innate. Wisdom is born out of embodied experience, most usually adversity. Can a brain in a jar ever become wise? AI is a brain in a jar.

[@emgeemchugh]

A philosopher should know better than use a term in its definition.

[@michaeljacobs4546]

Forget chess or go, wake me up when an AI becomes a poker master.

[@ssauve]

Took data decades

[@HaroldGodsoe]

That happened two years ago. Google it

[@williestyle35]

​@@ssauve it did. But that... characterization of the android Data was based on basically 1990's technology. If Data had been created fresh last year, he would "master" poker in less than 4 years, with or without any help from our current AI...

[@enric-x]

The rise of the machines was July 1799 and was announced by French envoy Louis-Guillaume Otto

[@rogerparkhurst5796]

As the Nuclear process was developed to generate cheap electricity…so AI could have the same development…new medicines, new formulations.

[@cristianst85]

We were promised "energy too cheap to meter". And where is that "too cheap" electricity? Same with AI?

[@Geoffrey-g8w]

You've got serious acting chops!

[@psikeyhackr6914]

It is still Simulated Intelligence!

[@jasonsebring3983]

"I deny that scenario" regarding the recursive self improvement... what about the game of Go? That is exactly what happened.

[@odizzle3854]

Watching this has taught me it is important that the person conducting an interview should not love the sound of their own voice.

[@crazypaulinquebec]

I am still confounded as to why we call it ''Artificial Intelligence''. Intelligence is, well, intelligence, full stop. So, why not call it digital intelligence. Humans have biological intelligence.

[@thomasjones4570]

Because of Turing. Plain and simple. Turing compared computers to humans and based its future on becoming so much like a human we cannot tell it apart and thus, it is human. This basically made everyone that came after him design them in a way to become more human like instead of designing it for what it is and so everyone is in the "human like" way of thinking and describing it.

[@BofaDeezKnights]

It's called artificial because it does not arise in nature without human interference. It is crafted by humans. Also it need not be digital. Digital means based on discretized information. The word comes from the digits i.e. fingers of your hand. AI can be done using analog and continuous computation, in fact people have built these kind of computers in the past and there are people working on analog hardware for use in AI.

[@bernardzsikla5640]

Ok, I fundamentally disagree with the gentleman's prospective regarding farming. I personally don't believe working in an windowless office cubicle is an advancement in lifestyle over farming. Americans are less healthy now than ever. We only live longer because of medication not lifestyle.

[@thomasjones4570]

Lifespan is reliant on genetics, not work. Farmers can die at a young age and people behind desks can live into their 90s and live well.

[@k8085Forest-zb4xl]

This seems like the worst period. Even the market are now very unpredictable. Started investing recently when the market prices were a bit high,today I am more than 60% down!..

[@rajjagconsultantgeologist7282]

39:25 John's answer (not being pshycologist or behaviour expert) sounds kind of short as for explaining the Ray's expressions of *Singularity* I think Ray's perspective is *right on path of very possibility* of decoding humans as beings. Yes, all possible dimensions of humans as beings can be sorted out & then interlinked with tremendous possibilities of combinations. Cognitive & rational or whichever- whatever. (Though costly) He fears of very possibility of birth of this framework of huge logical design & that's why he is on the *philisophical path* but yet wish to be rational. 😅 But primarily it's philosophical. So will always lag behind on factual speeds of random happenings. The voice of 'Let the humanity exploe its own limits' will always reman & has remained loud & powerful. No one knows where & how it will end up on large scales. (Lot many will surely survive out of this chaos too) It's also true that systems of regulations on this will keep on evolving parallely. Well, Course he teach is having tremendous value though, because, it teaches, rather provides scope for learnes to generate & develop the self awareness & self regulations in their journey on the path of AI. (Those will act as defenders in all odds of AI in future) That's great. 👍 In this sense, Peter, role of academic institutions is important & *they are still relevant* 😊 Nice & insightful discussion. Thank you all. 🙏🌹

[@olgajoachimosmundsen4647]

Would love Alex Stubb or Zelenskiy on

[@teemukupiainen3684]

alexander? why?

[@PravdaSeed]

🌻 thanks Fei🌻 🦋☸️☯️🕉️🦋 💫🐉🇨🇳🐉💫

[@jusmeetsingh1907]

Instead of saying Why do we need sitcom/ movie writers, the better question will be Why do we need Hollywood? We can get the final product.. video and all with Tom Cruise, Brad Pitt whoever we wanted.. on our laptop!

[@dr.edwardfreeman]

Whether GAI can become conscious is a question that cannot be answered unless we know what conciseness is. We do not. As such, the question is premature.

[@HellSeeker-d8r]

It has to be said that Fei-Fei Li's personal experience in China made her more concerned about the huge disaster that a powerful tool would bring to mankind once it was controlled by the devil.

[@curtisvalle5141]

I'm sure Leadership will do the right thing. Further, Peter could interview a beagle and make it interesting.

[@elsenored562]

Automation changed farming - from 80% of Americans working on farms to barely 3%. Was that a good change, or a bad change, overall? 23:28

[@manomancan]

AI completely changed the way I code. Work done in a day is basically a few hours max now. Anything I don't do with AI, I find wasteful. I found this "nothing to integrate" argument proudly pretentious.

[@exchequerguy4037]

One thrust of AI is developing robots is assisted living. Although advances have been made, I'm not seeing them helping granny out of her chair or into her bed.

[@aboyer9828]

yeah, I enjoyed this but... The analogy to the agricultural revolution is simplistic. The industrial revolution, for example, did create more jobs. But it also created a myriad of externalities: mass migration to cities, pollution, global warming, an educational system based on the assembly line, hyper-consumption, etc. We don't know AI's externalities yet, and i'm not sure it's reasonable to assume all the truck drivers will become data analysts.

[@albertking5377]

The unexpected move by the AlphaGo reveals that AI is fundamentally different: The anomalies it will cause may be by design due to machine learning. This, other than its intelligence, might be the true human part of AI. If looked at from an evolution perspective, mutation of AI is the key issue mostly missing in current discussions. For machines, automatic was yesterday, but autonomous is tomorrow. If autonomous machines inherently and unmistakenly act unexpectedly, who's liable to the consequences? Can machines commit crimes in a human way? Or we should blame the creators and owners of the machines on these autonomous yet criminal acts? The legal system of human society is not ready yet, and may stay unready as AI may advance faster. To think ethics as a cure of the problem might be too optimistic.

[@gordonicus4637]

Does it matter that I get automated out of my job if I and my family still get our needs provided for? If robot farmers still do the farming and robot factories still do the processing and robots deliver what I order online, without even having to pay for it?

[@felicecomplice]

You would then have no power over your life. Other than that it wouldn’t matter.

[@DerickSoo]

What is Ai? It is Human Intelligence that resides in non-humans of immense physical capabilities such as computers, machines, etc..

[@Guti3737]

John E is a intellectual that Thomas Sowell warns about. Central power advocate. He says no but all his articles and books say yes.

[@JULIANBASSETT]

The guests both appear to be humble, cautious, intelligent and openly share their insights and wisdom..they appear to me to be humane people. The interviewer on the other hand appears to be taking a provocative and very ignorant perspective, perhaps just to drive his line of questions. I'm willig to grant him the credit to be simply representing a patron class out there, some of who may have great means, but who remain in great ignorance - perhaps through defending their perspective in a changing world. The only way forward I've learnt, is by developing personal insight and compassion for all humanity. This is necessarily not an easy nor comfortable process. These tools are available to all no matter what world you live in or your means. If used to help others and improve understanding they can be a key to freedom from resistence or fear of the 'other'. 'Dominant' regious philosophies have been behind most wars of mankind; that and greed ... clearly if we ever want to solve for ourselves we need to head toward that which brings us together.

[@BrandonMcCurry999]

I still know nothing in comparison of what there is to know But, is it necessary to know more than others to be happy or conent in your own life?

[@BrandonMcCurry999]

Now consider this, would something hyper intelligent wish to be conent or would it feel lesser, when there is no one to compare with

[@douglascezar4810]

When they are asked about AI doing intellectual and creative work, they respond by saying that in the past when farming was automated, humans evolved into new jobs. And when industry was automated, humans evolved again. With that they imply that now the same is going to happen. But now AI is automating "thinking". I know AI doesn't think, but the results are comparable in many ways. What are humans now supposed to evolve into? Spiritual things? And make money from that in order to move capitalism forward? We're moving into a world where 75% (or more) will be unemployed and I think these people are maybe feeling ashamed of being part of enabling that.

[@itsbeenwritten2518]

Less farmers... enter= processed food, gluten allergies, obese problem, high produce prices, mass transportation opperations, food packaging....

[@briangarrett2427]

no machine could do what you do, peter

[@rmnair90]

Why are you seeking a definition of Artificial Intelligence? Do you have a definition of Intelligence? If you have then you can easily modify that definition.

[@bornatona3954]

??

[@douglascezar4810]

They try to explain why AI is only automating "parts of jobs". Why can't they simply say "with AI , 2 people can do the work of 10 people and we don't know what the other 8 are going to do"? It's like they are maybe ashamed of the technology they helped to make real.

[@Sir_Ray_LegStrong_Bongabong]

Bonjour

[@golfbulldog]

Such a bizarre flavour to the comments section here compared with most Uncommon Knowledge episodes. Either bots are attacking or the 2 guests have attracted a new set of viewers who are unfamiliar with Peter and his style.

[@Paul-talk]

..alarming. Such people and such institutions have gotten out of hand. The unconsciousness and arrogance is off the charts.

[@gracemember101]

Peter talks too much and does not allow interviewees to answer the question.

[@lucface]

Yeah it’s a shame because he has great questions. Fei Fei should just do her own video now and answer all the questions

[@danieloconnor548]

Her body language says it’s all, she will not stray from the lie of thought that feeds her one bit, not one bit. It’s so sorry to see a human in this way …

[@bobtarmac1828]

Ai jobloss is the only thing I worry about anymore.

[@JohnChampagne]

People would be less worried about job loss if we had an economic system wherein natural wealth (made by natural processes, not human effort) were shared equally. We should make prices more honest by charging hefty fees to industries proportional to how much resources they extract, pollution they emit or wildlife habitat they disturb or destroy. (It is folly to expect good results long-term from a dishonest system. Honesty is necessary.) If random polls show that most people think impacts on the environment are being held within acceptable limits, we will know that fees are high enough. This policy will manifest in reality the ideas that Truth and Fairness are important, and that we have a shared right to define limits to environmental impacts.

[@brucemacarthur8758]

It's not the system that is at fault. It is the people within the system and not just the ones in charge but all the people. Look at the typs of Governmental systems throughput history . . . they would all work except for one common factor - people.

[@green_monday]

For AI to NOT be an interdisciplinary pursuit would be gatekeeping a discussion that should involve everybody; Ultimately it's not a lot different than humanities. We have a huge capacity to screw this up.

[@Dr.Z.Moravcik-inventor-of-AGI]

How about thinking of your own fate instead of ai? Do you really think you can survive?

[@paideia-e9u]

Humanities have not demonstrated the ability to achieve lifelong happiness. They are not able to overcome their inner and hidden psychological sicknesses, weaknesses, and self-contradiction because they are not fully conscious of these. People have built AI robots strong enough to act out human self-contradiction and self-destruction. No long-term happiness or longevity will exist if people don't wake up from their unconscious passiveness.

[@TonioSmith-zs5nb]

Toñiosmith

[@Guti3737]

This sounds great government funded AI. What could go wrong.

[@marklauterbach9576]

An informed interview, as always. But, you let them off the hook. There was no answer as to why we should trust academics today. Citing government funded projects from 60 years ago is not an answer. Wish you had probed more.

[@PrevailVideos]

I worry that posing difficult to impossible ethical questions to computer nerds will drive them to think ethics is make believe. What's needed is instilling the importance of ethics, not just asking them to calculate the best answer.

[@thomasjones4570]

Ethics are make believe as they are a social construct and are not even remotely universal.

[@ernestguzman4962]

Governmental policy would invoke governmentally based-value decision making, which the Revolution of 1776 was a reaction against. What history has taught us is to avoid Plato’s philosopher king, in its different manifestations, whether Enlightened Despot, Soviet Commissar, Fuhrer, Liberal Democrat, CCP Chairman, technocrat, et al.

[@NythamarDeOliveira]

how about the Fake Republican?

[@Wizard-xt5ld]

In a way commendable that they didn’t use the words GPT or Generative, which is all the fuzz now. They did mention Alpha Go but no props to OpenAI. Weird.

[@GNARGNARHEAD]

I've been thinking about alignment some recently, and I can't help but frame the question of meaning, so, to oversimplify. the idea that there is a collective vector of all our alignments interacting, any divergence from this idealized imaginary vector is inefficient, the money serves it, the self serves it, even contrarian forces serve in defining it.. so, nothing new.. maybe a difference perspective

[@robertprawendowski2850]

⭐

[@williamvorkosigan5151]

Exerts in AI pretend that the are experts in social engineering and economics. This is not the end of horse power for the internal combustion engine. AI will ultimately take all jobs. It is amusing that it didn't come for truck drivers (advised to take jobs in haute couture or learn to code) first, it came for white collar.

[@eccrlife]

Well peter just told me as an accountancy student my job is going to go away. What do i do now do i change my major? Peter you cant be dropping truth bombs and then not giving me any answers... im upset you guys went down the creative route and not the other route. I feel more lost after this interview, it was great but now im actually fearful

[@MikeG-js1jt]

Please don't tell me this channel was named after the X-FBI head?

[@DonReichSdeDios]

I want to try the normal routine an d instructions pose on LLms but the outside forces of the hackers that use technology are torturous to me , my family and to my acquantances are too and these get worst everyday and literally they get ,clone and mimic my plans, thoughts , job and credentials.

[@jintaohu2135]

I am sorry that I have heard full ear of the positive things about AI from the guests only. It is an indication that they are not there until a huge human tragic.