The Rogue: FANTASY RE-ARMED

Is the classic fantasy rogue using the right weapons based on how medieval weapons function in real life?
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[@kodster234]

The Dm: "What? No Shad, you're a rogue, you can't use a longsword. A rapier is fine though," Shad: "BRING ME MY KITCHEN SCALES!!"

[@TheSteam02]

Rogues get prof in lswords fyi. Make a STR based rogue.

[@erickchristensen746]

@@TheSteam02 That's well and good except for one major thing... Sneak Attack Bonus damage does not work with strength. It specifically says you MUST be using a dex attack to gain the extra damage.

[@GameHunterMaster]

@@erickchristensen746 yeah, I'm pretty sure that's the thing that Shad's mad about.

[@jesusbranduscusmonsterkoal8304]

*house ruled using 2 handed longsword and 2 handed spear can be treated as finesse.*

[@DragonKnightJin]

@@erickchristensen746 Sneak Attack requires a Finesse or Ranged weapon. A distinction made to avoid Monk/Rogue multi from getting sneak attack with their fists. I've always found it strange that Rogues got proficiency with the Longsword instead of the Scimitar.

[@kungfudragon321]

How we interpret the video title: "What weapons should rogues really be using?" What it actually is: "Why the longsword should be a finesse weapon"

[@masterhazrond]

And even then his logic is weak because the whole point of it not being a finesse weapon is that you have to wield it *two-handed* for it to be even close to light enough. The whole point of roguish finesse weapons is they are meant to be wielded one-handed.

[@maxwellh7903]

@@masterhazrond but they usually use two

[@benjaminthibieroz4155]

@@masterhazrond rogues have two hands generally...

[@ThePCeristas]

I've been running a homerule in my dnd games for several years now "Versatile weapons wielded in two hands count as Finesse weapons"

[@seenote3143]

Long swords being versatile can use the Dex mod if you use it with one hand, and the str mod with two, and they have proficiency with the long sword so I don’t see the issue with a rogue using it.

[@KageRyuu6]

To be fair, the Rogue was originally called the Thief, so limiting him to primarily one handed weapons makes sense as they are the easiest to carry.

[@HappyBeezerStudios]

And those don't really need a bladed weapon. Anything that can knock out people would be fine, because if the guards get you with their swords it's over. The game series Thief actually showed pretty well how much trouble a single sneaky one would have in direct combat against multiple, possibly armored guards.

[@BraddahSpliff]

My current Skyrim playthrough is a rogue build that uses a mace & magic. It's perfect in my eyes because I imagine the mace as more of a blackjack or mallet. Got tired of being the typical rogue with a dagger & bow archetype.

[@timswingler4219]

@@whitewolf3051 you can't be silent with evocations, illusion and enchantment however def can finish a fight before it starts with a charm or a sleep spell.

[@timswingler4219]

@@whitewolf3051 you said that you can not be sneaky with magic until you level it. the only school you really can't be sneaky with is evocations hence calling it out as sure that's a noisy school. and magic is a skill you can learn, just because some rouges are to dense to learn it doesn't make it cheap.

[@timswingler4219]

@@whitewolf3051 your quote " Still, while you can be sneaky with a mace, not so much with magic until you really level it up, " you were replying to @Braddah Spliff I never said you NEEDED magic to be stealthy I was criticizing the "not so much with magic until you really level it up part" you never said evocation specifically I mentioned it because that is the only school which is inherently non sneaky, as a concession that that school is not stealthy however the other schools especially enchantment and illusion synergize and complement stealth quite well.

[@SetzerGabbiani]

Why does this seem like a rant he came up with to convince his DM? lol

[@stanleylee5358]

Why yes, my 1st level variant human rogue is going to take Great Weapon Master as his feat, use the Greatsword as a Finesse weapon, and add Sneak Attack dice to the hit.

[@CyberJellos]

@@stanleylee5358 longswords and greatswords are not the same thing. Shad was mostly talking about longswords in this video.

[@thegreatskeletor5125]

@@CyberJellos But in D&D Greatswords are sized to be about the size of a historical Longsword, and a Longsword is the one-handed weapon that's more like an arming sword

[@elskaalfhollr4743]

He is the dm, though, he films his campaigns on KZbin

[@AvangionQ]

If I were DM'ing this game, I would have allowed a rogue to use a longsword as a two-handed finesse weapon ... sure, why not.

[@mohawkmeteor7189]

Shad having guests over for dinner. Guest comes into the kitchen: "Hey Shad where is th..." Shad weighing rapier on his kitchen scale Guest: "I'll just get take out" 5 Minutes later Shad's wife comes into the kitchen: "Hey Shad I saw our guest just leav..." *Shad cutting butter with a longsword: "It's more agile okay" Shad's wife: "Yeah I see why he left"

[@The214thRabidFangirl]

Except for the fact that his wife doesn't want to be on video, i could see Shad actually doing this gag.

[@mohawkmeteor7189]

@@The214thRabidFangirl I guess its just gonna be shad in dress and wig then 😅

[@The214thRabidFangirl]

@@mohawkmeteor7189 you know what... I can see that too

[@tortoiseknight8438]

@@mohawkmeteor7189 i guess that would work

[@terrorcop101]

Well that's one way to avoid the in-laws

[@karliikaiser3800]

"I´d give them a spear" "Why?" "Because spears were everywhere!"

[@familycox5728]

I played mine with one

[@nickolas474]

I've always wondered about this. Spears struck me as a weapon that a person of common birth might reasonably be able to get training and practice in, unlike, say, a rapier. Since rogues often have a low born or street urchin backstory, wouldn't spear proficiency be more common?

[@KnightofGascogne]

Oberyn Martell uses a spear, and he's definitely on the Rogue spectrum.

[@Drejzer]

@@nickolas474 yeah, it's the quintessence of "stab with the pointy end" school of thought.

[@TheAlhouk57]

Had a rogue in a party that used s quarterstaff. Made logical sense

[@Corithaniel]

Everyone's taking how bad at sneaking you'd be with those weapons. I'm mostly thinking about having a free hand to throw pocket sand in someone's face.

[@Pyroproctos]

Not to mention how stealthy you are by lurking in the streets in tight-fitting dark clothes, with your hood always on. Seriously, think of someone today, walking with full camo and a balaclava.

[@joshtiscareno1312]

@@Pyroproctos Back in medieval days, the cloak was something that everybody wore. It was the original hoodie. Smaller hooded mantles also existed for milder weather. So it wouldn't have attracted attention if you saw somebody walking around with one.

[@hollypatrick8588]

They can still help "THEAF!"

[@hollypatrick8588]

Theif

[@arthas640]

We need a King of the Hill homebrew of D&D. Dale is a rogue, Hank is a Paladin, Bobby is the wizard, and Louanne is the unnamed NPC barmaid that the dungeon master (Peggy) uses to get the party to go on a quest.

[@Archer-1453]

Another thing I also really find underappreciated in ”rogue” outfits is a club or baton. The Thief games illustrate this perfectly. A club doesn't have to be some clumsy, ogre wielded tree stump. It can be a compact, surprisingly quiet tool.

[@VimyGlide]

i mean the thing with the blackjack in thief is that, realistically, given the medical knowledge of the time which thief is taking inspiration from, there's a very good chance garrett is, at the very least, giving people permanent brain damage. of course, given the medical knowledge of the time, garrett wouldn't really know that, so i...suppose it balances out?

[@raccoonking7566]

@@VimyGlide Ehhhh details! He didn't MEAN to cripple them for the rest of their lives. It's the thought that matters!

[@Archer-1453]

@@VimyGlide It’s a Batman style trauma interpretation. Are they dead right now? Then you are absolved of any later death.

[@PeregrinTintenfish]

I am not sure if a club is that quiet, but since knocking out people from behind is a trope, it would make sense as a potential rouge move.

[@Archer-1453]

@@PeregrinTintenfish I suppose compared to stabbing or slicing precisely, a club would not be quiet in comparison. I think I should have said it was surprisingly effective with subterfuge.

[@leoprzytuac3660]

If shad designed a game, almost all the characters would use longswords XDD

[@Klaaism]

With detachable pommels

[@YourFunkiness]

It'd be realistic.

[@YourFunkiness]

Also, he did design an RPG: cogentroleplay.com/about/

[@Notmyname1593]

And if they didn`t use longswords they would be using polearms.

[@cgamejewels]

true rofl

[@nikosaarinen3258]

Sneaking around with a polearm would be pretty inconvenient

[@favkisnexerade]

Yeah that's the deal with rogues and small weapons. You can easily carry 2 short swords, but 1 longsword when sneaking? Ehh, I don't think so. Imagine crouching around and holding scabbard to make sure you don't bump sword into something lmao. And I think idea is that rogues don't go to battlefield or open duels at all, so that's why they don't use better weapons.

[@Viet_Nam_Ball]

A rouge doesn’t need to be an Assassin tho. An Assassin is a rouge but a rouge is not an Assassin. U can be a battle type rouge which focus on agility

[@ShinKyuubi]

Yeah..that's a point against his argument. One of the classic things for the Rouge is to sneak around, sneaking around with a polearm or a larger two handed sword isn't the easiest thing..oh it can be done with the sword..the polearm? Unless that thing is a break down model where you can unscrew it in the middle I have severe doubts.

[@RATGODORIGINAL]

Rogue isnt necessarilly a thief or a stealthy assasin.

[@ShinKyuubi]

@@RATGODORIGINAL See that's the thing, while what you say is true, most people think those things when they think 'Rouge" in the sense of RPG. It's a stereotype and one that people and video games willingly let continue.

[@irontemplar6222]

"YOU DONT SEE GROG!!!" Guard: *nods* *Grog sneaks with charisma*

[@MultiCommissar]

If an Ork Kommando hums to himself the Mission Impossible theme really loudly, his WAAAGH field makes him literally invisible.

[@chukyuniqul]

@@MultiCommissar wait is this a joke, homebrew or canon? At this point I really don't know when it comes to 40k

[@MultiCommissar]

Yes.

[@thezerowulf507]

@@chukyuniqul it is a dnd orc rogue who uses intimidate to sneak instead of stealth

[@chukyuniqul]

@@thezerowulf507 i was referring to the qarhammer 40k thing, I know about the dnd thing.

[@wilfchapman-gandy8120]

In this episode: Shad says a longsword is the best weapon for a specific type of fantasy archetype... Again.

[@sebastianb.3978]

It WAS one of the most adaptable and versatile weapons in history for a reason.

[@TheBrazilRules]

Acutally he says it is the best weapon for everyone, including women

[@dango470]

thats why swords cost so much and were such a status symbol every other weapon exists cause not everyone could afford a sword

[@lordhoboofsavior36]

@@dango470 no... It used to be an expensive weapon only rich can afford but as time goes on technology develop and improve and iron become cheaper to buy. Swords is a weapon that almost any normal family are capable afford. You dont need to buy a recently crafted sword created by a blacksmith. You can just always buy a 2nd hand sword.

[@MemeLordCthulhu]

Honestly, idk why there aren't as many scythes in fantasy when they've actually been used as weapons in history. It could be the perfect paladin weapon

[@jonathanballmann7569]

Shad: we're gonna talk about what this type of character should use Me: bet its a longsword

[@NoNameBoi9987]

Or the long bow.

[@leoprzytuac3660]

x2

[@Klaaism]

but... what about dragons?

[@jonathanballmann7569]

@@Klaaism unscrew the pommel and throw it at them

[@davidtuttle7556]

The rogue should carry a small sword tbh. It is concealable under cloaks. It's fairly light and agile. Also the Easton favorite, the spadroon would also suit that class well.

[@valeckserai987]

One of my favorite characters I ever played almost no one knew was a rogue, even most of the other players. He called himself a paladin, and every time he would use "smite" it was just whenever sneak attack damage would apply. He dressed like a paladin, talked like a paladin, and had expertise in slight of hand and deception. Robbed so many people blind. No one expects the lawful good paladin.

[@JktuUekmw]

I think you have just inveted a new DnD class, and if you don't have the name for it yet, it suggest "the Politician".

[@MrSupercapra]

i do the same but whit a barbarian, he call himself warrior, was tall and muscular e fight whit a greatsword, but he was thief, he act like a dumb bloodlust moron come from the north, so he can easely robbed people

[@ReshyShira]

Sounds kinda like Pathfinder's Vigilante.

[@basbarbeque6718]

"Yes, Bronn is a rogue. Fight me." I'd rather not Shad, you have a lot of swords and know how to use them... and I don't

[@donz6211]

Bronn is a rogue though.

[@basbarbeque6718]

@@donz6211 I know

[@AlanGChenery]

Bronn is basically the archetypical depiction of the 2nd Edition Fighter/Theif.

[@chriswootton2889]

I'd argue he doesn't...

[@adweebwithapetcat7590]

He has to close the distance first

[@joeruiz1196]

Shads upset his dm wouldn’t let him sneak attack with a great sword

[@snakeinabox7220]

Mostly cuss barbarian rouge multyclass to keep up with the gorsely op war cleric

[@nihilviscire3349]

To be fair it refers more to a duelist than a thief or assassin, someone in dirty combat and without rules who trust his agility and superior speed, but it is common sense that carrying a long sword would carry a backup dagger like any other. army person in reality regardless of the weapon he uses. Equally a spy or thief.. yes, he would not wear such flashy and flashy outfits in a realistic environment, so it is more likely that being a rogue murderer or thief he will just blend in with the crowd. This rogue trope is far more likely to be a speedy and lacking morale fighter.

[@joeruiz1196]

@@nihilviscire3349 I’m just gonna point at my honorable swashbuckling rogue who duels people exclusively in combat and who has the flaw of never expecting people to fight dirty or gang up

[@nihilviscire3349]

@@joeruiz1196 A man whose agility is superior to that of others, and he exploits that by seeing himself as little more than a charlatan, using this to rip off others in the midst of unique duels with only individual duels being the environment where he can openly exploit his knowledge of how to do it. Combat implanted in the mind of a noble warrior for example has flaws in its effectiveness applied to the real dirt of a street fight and what the rival expects of them. A different kind of robbery, the scam, but it still sounds rogue to me and I get your point everyone can be dirty in battle, but a rogue is usually more creative when it comes to being unpredictable. In addition, a rogue is not always universally called a thief and a murderer, in Morrowind for example being a rogue mainly means being someone charming capable of deceiving with his ease of speech. Depending on the type of rogue, it is perfectly possible that he is in a combat situation in which you will not deny that a two-handed sword sounds more efficient than a dagger. But everything is a matter of preferences and the concept that you have ingrained for what a rogue should be.

[@joeruiz1196]

@@nihilviscire3349 I will point at the part where I said honorable using the rogue class for the features of a duelist and acting as a nobleman

[@Heath86]

I believe a lot of the rapier with a rogue idea comes from people seeing only a fencing foil when they think rapier

[@NoobNoob-ss5hs]

"Have you seen a swordsman carrying a sword that is as tall is as he is?" Neighbor: "Check behind that bush. Bloke's at it again."

[@user-pu5qe7qx7f]

Shad is the only person I have seen who casually mentions that he uses his kitchen scales to weigh arming swords

[@LabrnMystic]

I could imagine how it gets done. The Rogue disguises their polearm as a bindle or fishing pole. Their stolen goods hanging in the little bag at the end, disguising the blade.

[@hugofontes5708]

been there, did that, actually worked

[@hollypatrick8588]

Ok, but it will still drag on the ground and if he's trying to sneak not fool. ..

[@rhett5058]

@@hollypatrick8588 that’s why you play a jacked rouge

[@sebastianb.3978]

@@hollypatrick8588 Let the rogue be Basketballplayer height then xD

[@Laszer271]

And then you realise there is no river in the vicinity to fish in :P

[@aetheldan]

Bronn was so OP he would probably have killed the Night King if they offered him the Iron Throne

[@theblackvenom1840]

He was smart enough to not go up against the mountain

[@TheShieldsMD]

He doesn't want the Iron Throne, just the Red Keep.

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

The Iron Throne? Nah. What use would he have for that uncomfortable chair. The keys to Casterly Rock, however...

[@thessaleos2177]

Without any gold in it ? No way ^^

[@artemsakharof3082]

I'd argue that rogue is generally an urban character and medieval cities were rather cramped thus making longswords and polearms rather unwieldy to use.

[@Wraithninja1]

Not only that. Many towns made you check swords and spears at the gatehouse. Couldn't carry them inside the walls.

[@TheTrueFeleas]

You know longswords can stab like spears right? If the enemy dodges the stab, they're suddenly dealing with a side swipe. Urban combat solved.

[@unknownanonymous2651]

@@TheTrueFeleas If he misses and impales a citizen, no. In more cramped areas with people they'd used blunt clubs, or shortswords. Guards that is. A rogue can be on top of you and stab you in the neck with a knife. Or if it is fighting, chop the spear head of. It's not like it's be hard for a rogue, or, you know, grab the spear and close in. Rogues aren't about fighting, they are about using the environment to dictate their actions. And underhanded shit. That's why they Excell in urban areas. But let's admit, wilderness rogues with a bow and polearm, hands, down good. In caves, it'd be polearms and shortswords due to monsters and shit. Ship to ship would have bows and your pick of weapon.

[@bobbobson110]

But rapiers are as long or longer than longswords. How does this make sense then?

[@feedbacking6306]

TheTrueFeleas can you bring a Longsword into a city? No, it’s easier to sneak in a small weapon.

[@dickorange3404]

imagine a burglar sneaking around with an 8 meter long pike... it doesn't work shad, it doesn't work.

[@arandombard1197]

Rogue's aren't burglars.

[@jackmakila3776]

@@arandombard1197 *cough* thief subclass *cough*

[@arandombard1197]

@@jackmakila3776 By that logic, all Fighters are magic users, because cough eldritch knight cought.

[@andrewboardman2654]

8 meter long pike? that is like 5 people long lol

[@spikem5950]

Pikes are three to six meters long, 7.5 at the *most.*

[@shybandit521]

"Light" weapons in D&D are swords you are meant to wield in one hand. It has nothing to do with actual weight, more to do with size and your ability to use two of. Literal weight comes with more size, though. Rogues are supposed to use easy to conceal weapons they can use in one hand.

[@donz6211]

That is a very good point.

[@kolosmenus]

Finesse and light weapons in dnd are two different things

[@shybandit521]

@@kolosmenus I never even mentioned a finesse weapon? I just said light weapons are weapons you are intended to be able to use in one hand well enough to dual wield them. Using a rapier with one hand is intended, and with proper training you could use two. Using a longsword with one hand usually requires occasional use of your other hand, and using two is not recommended.

[@kolosmenus]

@@shybandit521 Indeed, but the video is about classifying the longsword as a finesse weapon, not a light weapon, hence your comment is kinda off topic. And a rapier isn't considered a light weapon in D&D, only a finesse one. You can't actually dual wield anything with a rapier in one hand.

[@shybandit521]

@@kolosmenus well the guy said the rapier shouldn't be considered a light weapon and I have not played in a while so that made me think he was saying rapier was a light weapon.

[@marcussawyer4751]

"You didn't fight with honor" "No... He did" Cit. the best rogue of the seven kingdoms

[@badlandskid]

A classic exchange. It still cracks me up.

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

Except that Bron is a battle master fighter...

[@donz6211]

He's right tough.

[@marcussawyer4751]

@@theapexsurvivor9538 No he's not, a battle master fighter would have pommeled him of strikes in a straight melee confrontation. Bron is not a fighter, he doesn't wear armour outside maybe light armour, and he always plays dirty. Battlemaster's manouvers can be FLAVORED as playing dirty, but by raw they are not.

[@wolf2965]

A bit late, but Bronn is not the best rogue of the Seven Kingdoms. Barristan is, or was at the time, as evidenced by his solo rescue of Aerys from Duskendale, the way he escaped from King's Landing ["I still had my dagger"] and how he managed to stay disguised as Arstan to infiltrate Daenerys' camp. Ergo, he multiclassed to rogue and he still is a better knight than almost any other. Shows you how low level the other knights are... He just does not have to use his rogue skills most of the time. Now you can fight ME.

[@evilmark443]

Lysa Arryn: "You don't fight with honor!" Bronn: "No ..." [points to the moon door] "he did."

[@masayukitachibana2756]

congratulation ser on your number of likes

[@CZProtton]

In the book, its even better. He just dances around and slashes at him, then topples a statue on top of the knight and kills him while he is pinned under the statue.

[@masayukitachibana2756]

Protton in the book, in the book. In the book, in the book! In the book in the book, in the book?

[@Gyvulys]

@@masayukitachibana2756 Congratulations*; sir*. Fixed it for you.

[@LordAziki]

@@Gyvulys "Ser" is how people formally address knights in Game of Thrones. Given the context, it doesn't seem like a typo.

[@SetsunaKai5]

Everyone's gangsta till the rogue pulls out an oberez.

[@enriqueromero7773]

I once got a backstab attack in, with a siege ballista

[@HenshinFanatic]

Or an arbalest.

[@danielmcmahon6194]

You know what? Fuck you! *arms rogue charecter with falconet*

[@Paulsinke]

I always thought the Idea with daggers was the ability to conceal them. A rogue wants to be able to appear unarmed and friendly until they are standing right next to you

[@nihilviscire3349]

Then you will not dress so extravagantly. That particular type of rogue is more likely to be a duelist or to fight fast and agile than to fight dirty and move with dexterity, in reality murderers and thieves who want to go unnoticed do not dress as they would like no guard to take their eyes off them. And if we're going to get back to realistic fantasy, this rogue will only use stealth as a shadow against his enemies, in which case he won't want to pass in front of you at all.

[@anteerceg527]

*DM*: pick something with dex it will be easier *ME*: NET

[@zackcampbell1346]

AnteKami - sama man it sounds like this is just a passive aggressive video directed at his DM

[@luminusprime]

Yeah, I'm gonna side with the DM on this one. There is a character class for this, it's called the Ranger. If you want to be tricky with a longsword and light armor, Ranger is your gig.

[@halfjack2758]

@@luminusprime *arming sword

[@TheMegaOne1000]

@@luminusprime With combat maneuvers, you can even make a fighter a tricky swordsman.

[@JohnM34404]

As a GM I hate the net (or bite from a 1/2 failed baleful polymorph), oh I attack and trip. Now that the target is on the ground Dex is denied so I get sneak damage.

[@Okutox]

No love for the parrying dagger? It's a rogue's best friend?

[@dicorockhimself]

Sword breaker even better

[@alexkirrmann8534]

Well most people are not ambidextrous.

[@Okutox]

@@dicorockhimself can't riposte with a sword breaker. Deal breaker for me.

[@Okutox]

@@alexkirrmann8534 you dont have to be to use a parrying dagger. You use it in your off hand for a reason.

[@dicorockhimself]

@@Okutox but sworn breakers are amazing at controlling your opponents weapon

[@jukesdtj656]

Actually D&D balancing idea: When wielding a Versatile weapon in 2 hands, you can either increase the damage die or make it Finesse.

[@scoundrelstray2776]

'A longsword used with two hands should have finesse and be DEX based' I cant stress enough how long I've been saying this

[@mikhielbluemon4213]

For real.

[@user-xf3bp7kr7w]

Me too, but it seems unbalanced.. Hurts a lot that realism is unbalanced..

[@sheenovh1182]

choose your character! knight: strong, powerful, heavy weapons: swords, longswords, pole arms rogue: quick, agile, tricky weapons: swords, longswords and pole arms hmmmmm.png

[@AstralS7orm]

The differentiator is kind of diplomacy and amount of sound they make. In something that is not a funky game, you'd have a stamina difference so a rogue would have to get in and strike hard, but wouldn't have staying power like a fighter nor as much skill in fact. Parry being dexterity based not a skill kind of ruins immersion. Of course, in D&D, everything pales before a wizard and a cleric.

[@TheRezro]

I think the misconception here is that rogues are the thieves. Not always such with lock-picks but even if duelists, they need to be capable to squish through small holes escaping from town guards. As such long swords and pole arms are excluded. Longest weapon used by them is rapier and even that in specific cases. As such short swords and daggers.

[@AstralS7orm]

@@TheRezro You forgot to buckle your swash.

[@agilemind6241]

Only because Shad is totally misunderstanding what a Rogue is. In D&D at least the Fighter covers the type of fighting he is talking about. Rogues don't get feint attacks, trip attacks, goading attacks, etc.... No, those are all the Fighter-Battlemaster archetype. In D&D, only the only Rogue archetype that is meant to fight one-on-one with opponents is the swashbuckler. All of the others are meant to be running in and stabbing a target in the back or side while they are fighting someone else, or jumping out from hiding to stab someone or snipe them with an arrow. So they should be using shortswords or daggers that they can easily conceal and that they use in extremely close range to get strange angles to get up under their targets armor etc... to inflict massive damage. He's only really correct about the rapier, which IMO is in there specifically for the Swashbuckler archetype to represent the historical fad of dueling with rapiers and the specific type of fictional character inspired by them ("Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya"). And to fit the archetype of a pirate (which is almost entirely fictional). There it was all about point control and the quick stab against unarmored opponents. (though obviously this style of fighting doesn't really make sense for fighting giant monsters or heavily armored opponents - but hey it's fantasy where you might be throwing a bottle of magic fire at an invisible demon). So Shad basically just redefined rogues as light armored fighters, which is why his conclusions make no sense. In D&D Bronn would not be a rogue, he would be a Dex-based Fighter-Battlemaster with Neutral or Evil alignment.

[@Aquilenne]

@@TheRezro Isn't the rapier about the same length as longswords?

[@bum170]

Shad: We're gonna talk about rogue-style combat and not the sneaky assasin rogue. Comment section: You can't sneakily assasinate someone with that.

[@demonic_myst4503]

No shad only touched on the swashbuckler style of combat nit a traditional rogue not just stealth your movment is hindered when your stuck with large weapons A traditional rogue in combat isnt standing in one place waving a sword back and forth as fast as they can thats a swashbuckler

[@bigcat5348]

But there is no "rogue-style combat". Rogues are not trying to fight.

[@seriousthree6071]

A rogue would still want weapons that are compact, or disguised. That excludes two handed swords, although might include staffs and some forms of short polearm. Those surprisingly do not reduce your agility that much. Rogues would trade armor for stealth and increased agility. They are not meant to fight on a battlefield. A combination trader/thief/smuggler who can rough it out when needed.

[@Sadreath]

@@bigcat5348 Rogues are not assasins or thiefs in all cases. In a commom fantasy settings rogues as part of a party will fight

[@bldgy]

@@Sadreath but rogues in parties fight by slipping out of their attention and attacking from the side or back. Fighters are less likely to lose track of the guy carrying a 5 foot long axe than they are the guy in light armor carrying a dagger.

[@silvertheelf]

4:16 Has to stop to admire the beauty of this long sword, but I do agree, it was a very nice design.

[@Ambaryerno]

I still prefer the classic XVIIIb with the waisted grip and scent stopper pommel.

[@rhedskiddel2282]

Shad: shows a picture of Bronn twice Fanfic writers: write that down! Write that down!

[@calimerohnir3311]

Revenge is a Dish Best Served With +1d6 Cold Damage

[@calimerohnir3311]

@Robo Satan Nope. Order of the stick by Rich Burlew

[@Gryphon2026]

Nice :-D

[@zycane]

So Aragorn in LotR, was actually dressed up as a Ranger, in a very Rogue sense, it all makes sense, he was long sword wielder then, yet still a Ranger/rogue type of fellow, prior to the fellowship group up.

[@dandoll4405]

Well, he would have had a longsword if it wasn't broken anyway.😎

[@bradm.c.9569]

Aragorn must have multi-classed; which brings up the point that classes aren't realistic.

[@raics101]

It's what I mentioned above, rangers are outdoor types and in that setting you want to look dangerous to avoid trouble and have a real weapon when you can't. Rogues operate in urban environment and rules are different there, you avoid trouble by looking inconspicious and there are more ways to avoid a fight or hit when the opponent doesn't expect it so any weapon will do the trick.

[@erneizhyde2660]

Oh, glad to see I'm not the only one thinking "Aragorn".

[@SymbioteMullet]

Aragorn had to be arguably the most agile fighter next to legolas... In the scene where they leave rivendell, there's some detail given to everyone's gear, and where boromir is carrying a shield and gimli is wearing chain, aragorn is described as only wearing green and brown clothes. Not even a magical elven weave shirt, just travel clothes. Although he's a Numenorean and 1/8th elf or something and has all manner of psionic powers anyway, and his sword is probably magical, so his chill about it is understandable.

[@mainaccount3087]

"Nothing is true, everything is depressing" What

[@mainaccount3087]

I mean, it's true...

[@pluggothesluggo5509]

@@mainaccount3087 no u

[@Yeldibus]

Was that a game of thrones quote I don't get?

[@zoesequeira5388]

The reason the longsword isn't a light weapon is that for it to be a light weapon, it would have to be considered not only small, but a suitable weapon for your offhand. It specifically needs to be light while wielded in one hand

[@Ambaryerno]

It should still be finesseable in two hands.

[@user-xf3bp7kr7w]

Say it to handaxes. Why the hell they considered as a small weapon?! They are much heavier ad massive than a BATTLE AXE!!!

[@AdarBlu]

04:25 I'm starting to believe that "The Sword of Skal" will one day be considered a legendary weapon on par with Excalibur

[@dark-hobbit]

@Badger0fDeath That sword was bought by Shad from Skallagrim

[@AndrianTimeswift]

Ex-Skall-ibur?

[@Bragdras]

"Shoutout to all the feint spamming maul users with bloodlust equipped" Oh dear

[@kajbaldwin1868]

can confirm they are not fun to play against

[@conway8947]

Goes for anyone using bloodlust in team fights tbh

[@RokuroCarisu]

To be hornets, there is a relatively easy counter to Bloodlust: Just kill them before they kill you!

[@josephburchanowski4636]

@@RokuroCarisu Bloodlust doesn't help them if you squash their heads in one hit. ~Maul users that fight other Maul users. Bloodlust doesn't help them if their Maul is disarmed. ~Peasants that use sledgehammers Just stab, slash, or bash them before they kill another teammate. ~Most people.

[@milkshakespear]

In DnD, then Shad's recommending roleplaying Battlemaster Fighters as Rogues

[@ramanspeedballof930]

This was very satisfying to watch, as in my soul I'm a rogue, but also a longsword is my favorite kind of weapon.

[@cobelat5357]

“The Scoundrel” “They fight dirty” Basically anybody who uses the Footman in Mordhau

[@Grockstube]

There's also a literal Scoundrel class in Mordhau, uses bear trap, fire pot and a fucking rapier

[@wergar_the_warwolf6834]

I hate the sco7ndrels

[@spinnirack3645]

The bill hook does negative knock back so drag them to your level

[@pyropussquantscalethewell-6472]

"agile, tricky, tactical swordsman" ...you mean the 5e battle master fighter?

[@deleteduser3455]

Tricky tactical swordsman pulls out a gun

[@supremecaffeine2633]

@@deleteduser3455 Parry this!

[@epitaph4606]

Yeah their whole gimmick is they get options in combat

[@scottdoesntmatter4409]

5e has no distinct classes or anything worth a damn

[@andrewluscomb1519]

@@scottdoesntmatter4409 not true theres magic users and varieties of less useful after that 🤣🤣

[@darionlamell4007]

In my dnd games, I rule that a longsword gains the finesse property when wielded in two hands.

[@donz6211]

"Any other way to say trickery is cleaver tactics" lol. So true.

[@Simtar123]

Thought of bronn too, really agile and quick with a sword + dagger + bow + "trickery" ☺️

[@clyde-7581]

Basically we are humber 1

[@madhatten00]

It's honestly just fighter rogue multiclass. Shad getting a bit confused there.

[@joshuatempleton9556]

@@lukehashbarger9936 hedge knight

[@eddgrs9193]

Bronn is a ranger. Arya is a rogue. Jaqen H'ghar is max level rogue.

[@erenrager6679]

@@eddgrs9193 Assassin. Jaqen's archestype is an assassin, I think.

[@sandeman1776]

Yeah, looking back at how heavy AD&D listed weapons; it was ridiculous. 15 lbs for a two-handed sword? 10 for a bastard sword? No wonder everyone's buff. Lol. I think the main misconception with the rapier is they probably meant small sword, but didn't know what to call it.

[@serpentsembrace782]

Yeah... 5e has much more realistic weapon weights. Not perfect, but much better.

[@Dennis-vh8tz]

@Bjorn Arnesen It's an epee d'combat as used by the 3 Musketeers. This can be seen as either a transitional weapon between the rapier and smallsword or an early (pre-spadroon) attempt at making a smallsword that was usable on a battlefield.

[@Arphemius]

Well, when you're fighting demons, trolls and dragons you have to put some force behind a blow. In other words, weapons would almost have to resemble slabs of metal more than swords...

[@sandeman1776]

@@Arphemius but thinner blades have a better cross-section for cutting and the magical plusses were a way of determining sharpness beyond the mundane razor. A weapon should be of utmost quality and reasonable ornamentation before it can even be enchanted, by the old rules.

[@egosomnio]

@Bjorn Arnesen If it's the illustration I think you mean, closest I can think of is a cutlass. Maybe some design elements changed between when they gave the illustrator the assignment and when they finalized the weapon list or something.

[@Badwolfsblade]

In terms of pen and paper RPGs, you might like "The Dark Eye". It's a roleplaying game from Germany, and the combat is far more realistic than in DnD. Most two-handed swords actually have the reach of a spear there, and the rapier just gives a bonus to initiative to represent its speed advantage. But it is far more complicated than DnD.

[@hngryviirider8710]

Please make a video about what assassin style rouge-s would use!

[@TheGateShallStand]

Ah yes, just sneak around with that 3 meter pole arm, you're never gonna be caught!

[@kyrilleygo8379]

Hey, no guard will challenge a rogue who seems like he knows how to properly wield a 3 meter pole arm, to be fair

[@bobbobson110]

maybe it folds out

[@ohioman4646]

When asked, just show your license (that you absolutely forged, and is completely illegitimate)

[@whitewolf3051]

Apparently, Shad never thought or heard of rogues being armed with daggers, a weapon that can be easily concealed, and allows for stealth kills if necessary.

[@Randomdudefromtheinternet]

@Alvi Syahri Or telescopic, like the Predator's combi stick.

[@houayangthe3rd]

Can we just accept that early fantasy hobbiest mixed up small swords with rapiers.

[@pyrobob5724]

They mixed up A LOT of weapons.

[@Sifuben]

Tbf "mixed up" isn't really fair. Many period Anglo Irish sources refer to smallsword as rapier.

[@houayangthe3rd]

@@Sifuben That's nice but the context is the modern period of "Fantasy Hobbiest" 40 years ago when literary everyone was ignorant of what we know today.

[@Sifuben]

@@houayangthe3rd but my point is that "what we know today" is in large part a modern contrivance.

[@scarletspdstr_]

Our teacher in Grade 5 ran a Pathfinder (Pathfinder is an RPG that's very similar to DnD) campagin for us during recess, and he was helping us get the concept of it. He explained classes, races, and what weapons they should use. I chose to play an elf rogue. He recommend a rapier, light crossbow, and dagger, but said screw that, longswords are cooler so I got a longsword, longbow, and a belt with 6 daggers

[@phillipamorris422]

Depending on what time period your story is set in (16th to 18th), the rapier would be very realistic due to it being so prominent. So in the aforementioned time period I would arm my thief with a rapier and dagger, as for another time period (literally anything before the 16th to 18th century) I would definitely choose the longsword.

[@fnglert]

I think the theory is not that a rapier is supposedly light, but it's a finesse weapon, it's precise, and promotes the use of precision (IE, dex) to be used successfully. At least, that's my head canon for my 5E Rogue Tabaxi Swashbuckler, Seven Crows.

[@drsch]

You're right. 5e doesn't call them "light weapons" but rather finesse. The difference is important.

[@thesteaksaignant]

Still, this applies to longsword as well

[@fnglert]

I mean, str for swords and dec for bows is the wrong way around anyways. My idea was that, in some ways, rapiers require precision more than longswords, which can also be used as more basic slashing weapons.

[@thesteaksaignant]

@@fnglert yes I guess you're right, although I tend to trust shad because I don't have much experience with swords myself (only LARP)

[@matthiuskoenig3378]

@@fnglert ideally strength and dex would be involved in all weapons, just different parts with bows greater strength = able to use stronger bows = drawn back further, = greater range and damage greater dex = able to load and aim quicker = able to hit targets more accurately while swords/ melee weapons greater strength = more strength behind hits = able to do more damage = able to more easily get def = gretaer speed = more attacks greater dex = beter block chance = more likely to land a hit

[@cloudsRniceC0M3]

Hits with dagger ~Okay...? Sneak damage! ~Aaaarghhh *holds shift to sneak ~ where did he go?

[@ElvenPrince]

add death strike for you assasin subclass

[@Ghost-js5cg]

A dagger between the ribs, or in the kidney, or the neck, or the armpit / under side of the arm, (Bracial Artery for those who don't know why this is here) or the... the list goes on. All it takes is one good hit.

[@aaronforsythe8556]

Or use fient to sneak attack again

[@businesschicken8699]

Plenty of classes and character types in classic fantasy games such as D&D or old school Elder Scrolls and the like have rouge classes available that specialize in using types of long swords. Buccaneers/pirates/raiders/dualists/fencers/rangers/mercs/scouts/rouge thugs or henchmen. The list goes on.

[@marz6770]

I have the impression this video is more structured than the others. I like that :)

[@lanceelato3507]

Dude I'm writing a book. Ive researched a lot and I find your videos to be much more helpful. your videos are what I use to make sure my story is true. Love it!

[@lanceelato3507]

@The Viking thank you!

[@jramseier]

That’s what I’ve been thinking when watching his videos haha! I am not witting a book though :)

[@nicholasfotou2980]

Hello Lancelet. are you the Italian Lancelot?

[@madbrosheo1514]

*Shad debunks DnD* Shad: "They called me a madman."

[@shanerooney7288]

*Shad _tries to_ debunk DnD * DnD fans: "You're a madman! (and your wrong)"

[@MrDibara]

*"And what I feared came true."*

[@rustopholis1667]

i appreciated the perspective and the breakdown, thanks!

[@lockwoan01]

In D&D 5e, there is, in the DMG, a magical sword known as a Sun Blade - it does Radiant instead of slashing, has the Versatile (2-hands is possible) and Finesse (Strength or Dexterity) properties. It also does +2 to attack and damage rolls, an extra d8 damage to the undead, and it's possible to use it to produce up to 30 feet of bright light around the sword, and up to an extra 30 feet of dim light past that, or reduce it to 10 feet bright and 10 feet dim.

[@kylienielsen6975]

Unexpectables?...

[@lockwoan01]

@@kylienielsen6975 It's Rare and requires attunement, and is on page 205.

[@idaret.]

Nobody : Shad: Rogue should be sneaking around with a polearm

[@eldritchsheep6801]

And with a long sword

[@axslaps]

Perhaps a Vedic mace, the ones were the head is almost twice the side of the weilder.

[@TheBasti05]

But a rapier is perfectly fine? We are talking about combat here. You can always leave your bulkier weapon with your friends group while sneaking in some palace or enemy camp or such.

[@Redwolf1314]

In D&D and Pathfinder, if the group needs a skill monkey I go STR rogue with a great sword. I'll challenge any claim that sneaking around successfully and discretely cutting down guards with a weapon that's as tall as you are isn't true mastery of stealth.

[@DanStaal]

@@TheBasti05 The rapier was more often carried in non-combat roles - it was designed as a 'dress sword', to be carried when out of armor and out of combat. With that in mind, and it's slimmer profile, it's a less *noticable* weapon than even a shortsword or large dagger - people will skip right over you wearing it, because it's a common accessory.

[@marcussawyer4751]

To be honest, in 3.5 you could use "Sneak attack" with every kind of weapon, as long as the enemy was flat footed or flanked, it's in 5e that you can only use finesse or ranged weapons to apply "sneak attack"(the name is kinda wrong cause you don't need to be hidden to trigger it; it, you just need to get advantage or an ally near the enemy)

[@antipoti]

I am sooo glad that you use metric units when talking about swords!

[@h347h]

I'm going to play a swashbuckler. Where is your buckler?

[@Klespyrian]

I sent it off to get Swash'd

[@donz6211]

Correct

[@Randomdudefromtheinternet]

Homebrew for that: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Buckler,_Historical_(5e_Equipment)

[@rhett5058]

That’s just me day job

[@ANTIMONcom]

Rogue actually uses the power of edge to empower their attacks.

[@weepingangel2384]

the Decoy that also describes the bloodhunter

[@bunionl382]

I think the reason longswords aren't included with a rogue's weapons is the size, not the weight. In my opinion, a rapier is already pushing it on size. A rogue usually specializes in stealth. It is very difficult to sneak around with a longsword.

[@TheMuddbudd]

One of the reasons I like pathfinder is it fills that role of the swordsman that uses finesse and tactics in the swashbuckler that shad was talking about at 8:13.

[@ronanvankessel6329]

But according to Dark Souls III using two hands only gives a 50% strength bonus

[@Jeikobu]

If I remember correctly thats all the souls games

[@CatboyPrincess]

@@Jeikobu this is actually incorrect because in Dark Souls 2, two-handing a weapon reduces its strength requirement by half.

[@Jeikobu]

@@CatboyPrincess ah, thanks, I dont really use str weapons in 2. Good to know though.

[@Synkhan]

@@CatboyPrincess actually this applies o DS 1 as well. Cant remember if its the same in 3 though.

[@dearcastiel4667]

@@Synkhan No, DKS1 you get a 50% str bonus for using it in 2 hands, only DkS2 double your strength for using 2 hands, which was OP.

[@nickkohlmann]

OKAY, OKAY. You DID prove your point to your DnD group, they should let you use that kind of class now.

[@Khaons]

Yeah, too bad rogues doesn't really have proficiency with longswords

[@adamomega74]

Khaons if we're talking 5e, Rogues are actually proficient with longswords.

[@Khaons]

@@adamomega74oh, indeed they have ... Anyway, as a DM I would be really skeptical about giving a dex user a weapon with a higher damage die

[@AstralS7orm]

@@Khaons And why is that, when your average wizard can kill with a word? (Anyway, HP sucks as a part of any system, unless it's maybe 3.)

[@Khaons]

@@AstralS7orm well, as for the wizard thing, because rogues don't have any class resources to manage (besides the arcane trickster). As for the weapon, you see dex users already have so much in their plate, dex determine s AC, initiative, a bunch of skills and one of the 3 most commons saves, the dex save. Meanwhile a str user just have access to a higher damage die and armor (and still the penalty for using heavy armor when you have the proficiency but not the str is only movement).

[@tarvoc746]

In _Legacy of Kain: Defiance,_ Kain uses the two-handed Soul Reaver, and I always described his fighting style as "rogue-ish". Interesting to hear that this isn't without basis in reality.

[@danielturner1891]

Like all your videos that I’ve seen, this one is great. One side note, the distribution of weight can actually greatly impact the amount of force it takes to wield something. Carrying would be equal, but with the center of mass being different, when you tilt the long sword, you would require more force due to the additional torque.

[@kimsenhofer3812]

I am a Lvl.15 Rouge and I approve this message.

[@RabanoDoom]

Funnily enough, I've had dms allow finesse longswords as long as we called them katanas

[@RokuroCarisu]

A katana falls under scimitar rules in my book. As Shad showed us in the previous (Kenshin) video, they were not exactly "long" swords.

[@jonharker9028]

@@RokuroCarisu He did say as much, however I've found in research that they have more similarities in use [guards, cuts, binding, half-swording] with longswords than scimitars. This is especially apparent when you take into account that katanas were/are heavy for their size [some being heavier than arming swords of the same length of blade] and scimitars tend to be very light in comparison [rare is the accurately-sized scimitar/shamshir/tulwar/pulwar I've come across that's over 1 kg / 2.2 lb., contrary to depictions]. Katanas are also inherently capable of use in two hands as well as one [primary used in two hands, but you also have quick-drawing techniques and dual-wielding]-thus, it's most accurate to compare them to bastard swords, which the use of 'finesse bastard sword' does. Draw- and push-cuts [those that combine slash and slice, unrelated to the quick-draw] are more common to katanas and scimitars than longswords, on top of that, and thus you may [if one desires] have your finesse.

[@XiroNyakuya]

I love your videos and your info. Im actually making an Indie game since a few years (while i study and work, so i'm doing it slowly), but still, i have a lot of things ready and the information that you give it's really appreciated, because it's an RPG game. Weapons weight, they have different types of uses and types of damage (like impact, or slash, or puncture, etc), and im actually using the info that you give even with armor and types of enemies. Some armors give you resistance to puncture, others to impact, etc.

[@Tholesline]

Amazing video, that really stands out!

[@Jj-xl3xg]

One handed short weapons fit Rogues better, because it frees them up to use their other hand. Thrown weapons, sand, smokebomb, etc. Small crossbow. Grappling hook. Loot. Grappling/deflecting/redirecting martial art. Pickpocket mid-combat. Also far easier to hide smaller weapons, with their skulking. They can also tend to have less privileged backgrounds, less chance for fancy sword lessons. Not always, but the former/secret/exiled rogue noble is an archetype of its own.

[@SkepticalCaveman]

Also rogues also prefers to fight in tight spaces were a short blade actually have an advantage over a long one. A longsword will only hit the walls and ceiling all the time. That's why the Samurai used the shorter Wakizashi indoors instead of the Katana.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

@@SkepticalCaveman well, for the walls problem you can just not swing wildly and keep a low "point at your face" stance focusing on thrusting, you're greatly reduced in options but the guy with the dagger is even more so, their best option just running in the opposite way. Of course the longsword would be much better off for the "exiled knight" instead of the road thief and longest thing I can see the latter carrying is a full length one-hander on the back (with the SHABBARD) and a buckler if they're rogues that do by choice decide to enter open combat but for everything else, dagger and a strong glove are better.

[@SkepticalCaveman]

@@cdgonepotatoes4219 Well if you advocate thrusting, then wouldn't a thrusting weapon like a rapier be preferable? If stabbing is what you gonna do, then why use a longsword instead of a rapier? Edit. I forgot to expand your comment. I see that you also don't think his choice of longsword was a good one.

[@cdgonepotatoes4219]

@@SkepticalCaveman rapiers came in the scenario at a later date to medieval times and I'm not that big an advocate of mashing time periods together. Then a longsword can be used more proficiently againt other creatures adventurers will meet (against which big scary swings are more effective, given they aren't able to just hit you with a ranged attack or smash you with a hammer the size of a small house, there no rapier will help you either).

[@SkepticalCaveman]

@@cdgonepotatoes4219 Fantasy doesn't mean the same as mediaeval times. Longswords existed still even after the rapier was created. I do really dislike guns in fantasy settings though, why would you need technology when there is magic anyway? Who would an airplane when you can fly with magic or even better teleport?

[@clukskin]

I feel like rogues would prefer to use a 1 hand weapon so they have options available to them for escape tools, bombs, throwing weapons etc. in their offhand, and as such that is a large part of their deceptive / dirty fighting style.

[@kudosbudo]

So like Guts from Berserk.

[@unknownanonymous2651]

@@kudosbudo he's a human tank, even tanks have .50 cal attachments.

[@13eaewe7m3thso]

@@kudosbudo guts is like a rogue with a barbarian's hit die

[@GonzoTehGreat]

They could use a bastard sword instead of a longsword...

[@yle-mw6pi]

A perfect example of a rogue breaking the mold is kerillian in vermintide 2. She's the games rogue/stealth character and one of the weapons she can use is a short glaive There's also several of the assassins in for honor. There's orochi with his katana, shaman with a hatchet and dagger, peacekeeper with her one handed sword and dagger combo, gladiator with his trident

[@dylanmcloughlin2187]

In dnd, the rapier isn't considered light, it just has reach and finesse. Also, the reason rogues don't use longsword is because they mainly use two weapons. Also, I agree, though the longsword is "versatile" for one or two hands. The rogue should only be able to use it with two hands.

[@whatbreaksthesilence8508]

When you badly want to optimize your rogue by having them use a longsword and get away with it but don't want to multiclass or spend feats

[@Klespyrian]

Are there feats in 5e that let you use longsword for sneak attack? That is what it sounded like you were saying, but I could just have been misinterpreting.

[@dezthedapper1181]

@@Klespyrian Any weapon that has the finesse or ranged property could be used for sneak attack in 5e. This disallows the usage of the longsword.

[@tkeleth2931]

@@dezthedapper1181 Has to be a finesse or ranged weapon. Shad I think is commenting on earlier editions when rapier was considered a "light" weapon. They're definitely not any lighter, but if you watch HEMA videos of longsword vs. rapier, you can easily see there is a difference in styles where rapier is "essentially" just accurate thrusts, which corresponds well with the rogue class flavor of using accurate stabs for effective damage. The #1 thing to remember - D&D is literally based on *fantasy tropes*, not historical accuracy, and so the ruleset is made to reflect that.

[@bobbobson110]

@@dezthedapper1181 even a ballista?

[@SordoBjorn]

@@bobbobson110 I suppose if you can somehow manage to hide it from their notice...

[@PopeCocksmoker]

Rogues use rapiers because D&D rapiers are the most damaging "finesse weapon", and that's because the D&D "rapier" is actually describing a smallsword - a fencing foil with a point. If we're dropping GoT references, Needle is what D&D calls a rapier. You might have noticed that D&D isn't very historical.

[@gabrieladonai9427]

Ama Yad was gonna say that. Blame dnd on this one, making long swords not THE finesse weapon is quite dumb. Every single character in fantasy uses longswords, no matter how strong or dexterous. But dnd claims it is about strength

[@PopeCocksmoker]

@@gabrieladonai9427 Quite honestly, this goes all the way down to "characters having to choose between dexterity and strength at all." When it comes to effective fighters, there's no such thing as "strength 18, Dex 8" or "Dexterity 18, Strength 8". The kind of dexterity D&D models doesn't exist in isolation, and neither of them really work without Constitution. Gymnasts and ballerinas, the poster children for "high dexterity" have considerable strength. You can't practice striking hard and remain completely incapable of striking fast, or striking fast without force. You can't practice any kind of fighting for long without building endurance.

[@lordilluminati5836]

@@PopeCocksmoker honestly, yeah.

[@Hemroyd_Skankins]

u are using D&D and D&D interchangeably and i am not ok with that

[@PopeCocksmoker]

@@Hemroyd_Skankins You can't spell the word "you", or even use a capital U. I'm not okay with that.

[@scw996]

This reminds me of Braun in game of thrones. He really is a rouge with a long sword/bastard sword, and his kukri. Great fighter and smart.

[@ImmmaI]

I miss this into music, i like this longer one so much better than the shortcut

[@StiflingJESTER]

Seems like Shad just wants to make a Dex fighter... We can do this we have the technology

[@ryandruid9952]

Specifically a battlemaster, for the feints and other tricks

[@bonogiamboni4830]

If he really wanted the sneak attack he could take a few levels of rogue too.

[@bobbobson110]

yeah, if he wanted to make his fighter suck

[@theapexsurvivor9538]

@@ryandruid9952 yep, I think he mistook the archetype. He thinks a rogue is a true neutral/neutral evil fighter with high dex and maneuvers, rather than basically the spy from TF2 or Bilbo Baggins from the Hobbit.

[@happalula]

2:20 "mommy, is daddy cooking with swords again?"

[@randomperson4198]

*YES*

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

... Do you not?

[@brandonmalcolm2051]

You should make a video about the accuracy of the weapons used in the dragon prince (Netflix).

[@Confused_surprise]

Actually, for a rogue I would go with a stiletto, since it was historically used for assassinations. And maybe an estoc for a good fight (even though these weighted 2kg on average). Or even better, a true rogue weapon, a ninjato : a light, short sword, easy to carry, and useful for other things than fighting.

[@NieroshaiTheSable]

"A very short shortsword." Oh no. Shad's recommending fighting with butternkives.

[@rawovunlapin8201]

I prefer butterkites tbh

[@bcn1gh7h4wk]

I mean.... have you played Zomboid tho? you can do some nasty work with butter knives, if you choose your abilities correctly

[@shorewall]

Some points as I see them: 1) The Rapier weighs about as much as a regular sword, but since that weight's in the handle, it has less leverage on your sword arm. Whereas an arming sword has more weight in the blade to hack with, which causes more leverage on your sword arm. So the Rapier would be effectively lighter, since the weight is not on the end. You even made the point that it has more point control, which is allows someone with less strength to use it effectively. Similar in the other direction is comparing with an Axe or mace, where more weight is concentrated at the tip, which means you need more strength to use it with control. 2) I completely agree with your point about the Longsword. The fact that you can use both hands (and I would argue, more of your body and legs) to wield it, while it is less than twice as heavy as an arming sword, makes it much more agile than it is commonly portrayed. (I think along with the spear and the longbow, the longsword is one of the more mis-portrayed weapons of medieval fantasy, based on what I thought of it, from DnD, movies, etc.) 3) I somewhat disagree with your conclusion on what a rogue should be. I believe that all classes and warriors should be able to use sound tactics, and pragmatism, and stealth. (Just like how most gunfights in the old West weren't shootouts at High Noon, but rather shooting someone in the back when they were chilling in a saloon.) So what would make a rogue special? I think a Rogue, whatever you end up calling them, is someone who can infiltrate, and assassinate. Sneak Attack is basically trying to assassinate someone. So in that case, I can understand smaller weapons for concealment. The Rapier does becomes completely pointless though. Think about it, Rogues can pick locks, disarm traps, stealth well, sneak attack. They are infiltrators/assassins!

[@reddragon9064]

im glad someone made these points shad sometimes dosent fully think everything through alot of his FANTASY RE-ARMED videos are good but really anger me with his mistakes he makse that are so ovious to even me makes it really anoying hopefully he sees this comment sense he is good about looking in comments and hearing out the opions of the fans and owning up to his mistakes also things one longswords wouldent make much sense for most types of rouges lest being well trained in the use of it more so knights and nobles who where trained in that use i belive least acording to other comments and stuff idk much about all this so its intersting to watch shads videos i want alot of my stuff to be more realstic but i think sometimes he trys putting to much realisum into the fantasy genre wile also not thinking everything 100% though as plenty of videos i seen of his i could imeditly notice problums in what he was saying with just my basic knowledge but people make mistakes and like i said he is good about listening to comments least from what i remember and owning up to his mistakes i just wish he would listen to what he was saying hafe the time but either way love his videos its only really the fantasy re-armed that anoy me his rest i dont have a single problum with either way they always interesting videos

[@idaret.]

Another point : Short swords and daggers are easy to hide and imho disguise is very important for rogues, they supposed to look unarmed.

[@SimoLInk1698]

As far as I understand it, a rogue is a character that uses unconventional (and often illegal) means to get things done, like sneaking, poisoning, picking locks, stealing and so on. Also, the fact that he's often portrayed as someone who "lives in the streets", a rapier wouldn't really suit him well since that's a weapon that requires quite the training, while daggers and maces are much more simple to use and easy to conceal.

[@dudejo]

While a rapier may have less momentum, a two-handed longsword lets you apply your entire body strength. Your weapon control improves exponentially even if the center of gravity is a couple of inches higher. But yeah, an infiltrator would prefer compact equipment over full-power weapons.

[@reddragon9064]

@@SimoLInk1698 when i think of rouge with a raiper i think of pirates swashbucklers and the like which then makes alot more sence a example from a movie captain hook from peter pan for most other rouges yes smaller weapons tend to suite there needs more but either way i see a long sword makeing alot less sense in terms of why they would have the training to even use it rouges dont normaly like 2 handed weapons period from what i can think of guess they like haveing a hand free or something i agree with your idea of a rouge also i seen some people try to say they only people who use dirty tactics which *sighs ya not gona say much more gota go but that was my thoughts on the whole thing

[@gemyniraptor8626]

I like your description of a knight using subtle tactics to gain martial advantage, as I had built a character a long time ago in DnD 3.5 as a Knight/Duelist multiclass. The knight had to follow their archetype of brave combatants, but the Duelist lent a diverse and agile martial skill application. So the Knight had a Challenge ability to basically single out foes into singular combat, and the Duelist gained defensive buffs from using Feints and tumble maneuvers. Thus the Knight I played would just out flank their foe over and over, dodging and parrying and striking at openings made while the enemy just chased them fruitlessly. It was a really fun build to play and articulate

[@35november]

I played a rogue with custom armor i call a coat of pans. Basically i strapped a dozen or so frying pans to my gambeson and loudly banged around. The benefit is you can detach them as a weapon, and to fry eggs. Just dont put the armor in a dishwasher or it will remove the stick resistant coating. You can also say things to the DM like "dont pander to me" then smugly look around the room tp what is sure to be unruly laughter.

[@Raven_Leblanc]

First picture shad uses: Ezra Oddsmaker from battlebond me: *YEEEEAAAAASSS!!!!*

[@TraucerDaUrbania]

Azra, my reaction too

[@SageofCancer]

Sneak attacks with a greatsword. 'Tis but a fleshwound!

[@yalkn2073]

Great swords use strength not dexterity

[@marcussawyer4751]

@@yalkn2073 Actually in 3.5 you can use a sneak attack with a rogue if you gave him a bit of strength(and you used the feat you recieve at first level to get the competence in using the weapon)

[@longhorngeneral8391]

about the only thing i see being an issue is while yes it is lighter while wielding with two hands its also harder for you to use the maneuvers like reaching around the shield your enemy is using to stab them, switching your dagger behind your back so they don't see witch direction its coming from, being able to conceal it easily, ...etc

[@chunchoe]

Thats what i like about Pathfinder it has the dueling blade which is similar to the longsword/bastard sword but being single sided blade that is able to use weapon finesse which lets it use dexterity instead of strength

[@airwaves9611]

Draw time with a longsword is longer than a short sword or dagger, keep in mind a rogue relies on sneaking and stealth, quickly pulling your weapon out and sheathing it to blend in or use your hands to climb would be more important. Rapier is associated with agility because of its agile stance and reliance on speed and accuracy rather than power. Rogue trickery is more associated with the likes of flash bombs, throwing weapons etc, not how they handle their weapon. You're thinking far too much about how you can practically fight with a weapon and not nearly enough how a rogues weapons compliment everything else.

[@reddragon9064]

ty he wasent even talking about rogues really just a dex fighter really anoys me tbh and that so many are not noticeing and just agreeing with him rogues dont like to get into fights if they can help it and when they do they probly prefure a free hand to chuck a smock bomb and run away if things get dicey asap or other things or just use 2 daggers one thing he shoulda brought up was the parrying dagger though that makes alot more sense for rogues tbh

[@GonzoTehGreat]

Two words: SNEAK ATTACK

[@GonzoTehGreat]

@@reddragon9064 Inigo Montoya IS a DEX fighter, as is Wesley but they both also fit the tropes for Rogues. They're not mutually exclusive, which is why the Swashbuckler Archtype exists!

[@reddragon9064]

@@GonzoTehGreat dude that a seven mounth old comment i made much better ones elsware in video wth you replying to litterly my dumbest one that really old my problem is as i can say it better dex fighting is not fighting FAST its fighting precisely all the obviously strength weapons can be swung fast the point in Dex Fighting more so for Rouges Specifically Including Swashbucklers is Precision you not gona easily hit any weak points or under any armor with no longsword but if it really fin matters it is a thing rouge are proficient with in 5e he still was not talking about Rouge as there other stereotypes that can use dex but Rouges are about the precision where you think sneak attack damage comes from in middle of combat if your looking dude in face you are not hitting them stealthy your hitting them in a weak point in a vital spot your hitting them in a vulnerable spot which is why it hurts way more then normal you simply can not do that all 2 quickly with a flippen longsword it is simple to big and 2 long in 5e all melee weapons can use Str cause there is no pure dex melee weapons one ones with finesse which lets you pick which stat to use but there a theme all of them can hit precisely very quickly not just quickly and its also why the rapier a weapon designed for precision attacks is the only 1d8 one handed finesse weapon tell me would it be faster to hit with a Rapier or a Longsword with aim of Precision not RAW Damage i not continuing this as its pointless everyone entitled to there opion wither it be wrong or right and mine is shade is wrong and he is in no way talking about Rouge Fighting he Talking about Dex Fighting there IS A DIFFERENCE

[@passonthestar3689]

A rapier and longsword are about the same length The draw time wouldnt be longer for one than the other