The Roma (Gypsies) in the Basque Country - Erromintxela

[@graf]

I love how real languages will naturally develop things most conlangers wouldn't even think of.

[@researcher7578]

That's true, every time I was trying to invent something "strange" in my conlangs, some time later I was always realizing that it really exists somewhere in the world

[@unexpected2475]

Indeed, this is probably why shit like the Basque-Icelandic or Basque-Algonquian Pidgins are memed so heavily in our circles.

[@mmafpv1]

There are people speaking it for sure, I met some last year in Antwerp of all places, while I was working in a restaurant. I asked one of the men what language they were speaking, and he replied it was a sort of basque. I asked "euskara batua?", meaning "standard basque?", and he said it was more like a dialect. I was under the impression that they were Gypsy, so I asked if it was Erromintxela and they said yes! Then we started speaking of their language and words, and since I was doing a Romani course at the time I could say some words like "šukar", "čumidav", "khamav", "phiravav", they found it funny that I knew a bit of Romaneš and we had a very nice time, I was so happy to meet these people that I offered them ice-cream! Working in that place was worth it just because of that :)

[@danziger999]

Which restaurant? Is there a Basque restaurant in Antwerp?

[@mmafpv1]

@@danziger999 No it was very randomly in a pizzeria in Wilrijk called Pizzeria Sole.

[@aline_04]

Hi there as a Roma I wish you did a linguistic analysis video on our dialects, since we have a very unique language with examples of our language being recorded in Germany and Spain since the 1400’s, examples of our dialects’ unique features are: -8 cases compared to the smaller number of cases in modern Indo-Aryan languages, Romani having articles due to European influences while Indo-Aryan languages lack that -unique grammatical constructions such as lacking a word for ‘to have’, lack of infinitive verbs (for example when you said ‘pijav’ for ‘to drink’, it actually means I drink) and a foreign verb suffix from Greek used for all European derived verbs and there being a complete different conjugation of foreign words in our language that have a complete Greek form. -Many basic words in Romani are borrowed from pre-European languages such as Persian, Byzantine Greek, Armenian and Kurdish/Ossetic. There are also many unique features you can find while studying about our language, it’s very unique :)) I hope you can cover it at some point

[@researcher7578]

As far as I am aware the lack of infinitive is one of the features that make Romani a member of the Balcan Sprachbund (= linguistic sphere of influence) which I also find pretty cool

[@ocaollaidhe]

excellent and interesting video but just by the way, Shelta as the language of Irish Travellers isn't based off Romani and Irish travellers are not Romani. people say that Travellers as a distinct culture developed over the period of British colonisation as people were forced off their land and made travelling refugees but I don't think anyone really knows for sure

[@PerfectBrEAThER]

Slum hawrum. L'esk mwīlša a hu?

[@oscarj0231]

Likely nothing to do with Britain, since there have always been traditional travellers in the Scottish Highlands too. Probably a shared Gaelic thing

[@ocaollaidhe]

​@@oscarj0231 i don't know, i'm not suggesting any particular theory, that's just what people often believe. could the highland clearances not account for a similar thing in Scotland?

[@FrithonaHrududu02127]

Some recent DNA tests on Irish Travellers showed that they diverged with the larger Irish Population somewhere in the mid 17th century which backs up claims that they were a people made landless by Oliver Cromwell and his ilk

[@oscarj0231]

@@ocaollaidhe didn't see this until now. No, Scottish travellers have records going back to the 12th century

[@thequantumcat184]

As a Basque person, I was vaguely aware of Erromiktxela, but I thought it had died out a while ago, similar to other minority languages and Basque dialects, which went extinct during the 20th century, especially as all the Roma people I have encountered seemed to me to be closer to the Calé culture (even though many speak Basque too), as in having a traditionally southern accent when speaking Spanish etc. The Erromintxela language itself is really interesting though, and it reads as if I was reading Basque but was too drunk to actually understand any of it. Some words, especially the personal pronouns, are identical to Basque or at least very similar, and all the verb and case endings/suffixes are the same too, but with completely unrelated root words. I really like how it sounds too, and tbh, if I actually encountered written or spoken Erromintxela irl I would just asume it was one of the more "closed" and harder to understand dialects of Basque.

[@undergroundsoundsvcv7632]

I’m a basque guy who has gypsy friends, this video was quite interesting and refreshing. I really enjoy your videos Shawn, you’ve made a linguistics enthusiast out of me with your amazing content, now I study languages on a daily basis. Thanks for inspiring me!

[@김이박-u8t]

I've never thought that there have been romani people and their own ethnolect in basque country. It's so fascinating. Thank you for your considerable linguistic research and effort for the interesting topic. Keep up your work.

[@sandyetcheberry9087]

I am gypsy from basque contry and i speak erromintxela 😁

[@peterpcholkin1842]

Days when Shawn uploads are good days.

[@Titantr0n]

I'm Spanish and interested in languages and I didn't know about this. It goes to say about how we treated both cultural identities over here (a bit convenient I know). By the way your channel was quite a discovery, love your work!

[@valentinaaugustina]

i sent this to my french basque friend. they actually introduced me to the basque romanis, and one of their names, kaskarot, is going to be a part of a creative project i’m a part of! thank you for this :)

[@paulclapham5791]

This reminds me of Michif French... it's a language which is (or more like, was) spoken in the Canadian prairies. It's a dialect of French, but it's spoken with Cree grammar, and it arose from marriage between Cree native people and French immigrants in the days of the fur trade.

[@Səv]

You mean Mètis French and Michif. Mètis French is French dialect with Cree (and other Indigenous tribes) influences Michif is like a Creole with French vocabulary and Cree (again with other indigenous influences) grammar

[@LuisAldamiz]

Excellent video, writing from the Basque Country. I learned a lot, I must admit. I was vaguely aware of the Erromintxela language/dialect and the distinctiveness of Basque ijitoak in the past but admittedly I did not know much, just some generic notions. I would think that the modern Romani living in the Basque Country should be many more than 20,000: they are a very visible and widespread (even if scattered) community since I have memory (the 1970s). But maybe I am wrong in this detail. In any case my impression has always been that the Romani living in the Basque Country were mostly of Spanish roots, arrived along with other Spanish immigrant waves (from Castile, Asturias, Galicia, etc.) in the 20th century, especially under dictators Primo de Rivera and Franco, who promoted that immigration as way to denationalize the Basque Country. In my mind they're mostly associated with Andalusian culture (accent when speaking in Castilian, flamenco music) and to me the Erromintxela-speaking Roma were essentially a rumor from very old times, older probably than my grandparents who were all born in 1910 (yes, the four of them AFAIK). Seems I was partly wrong and some relics from those old times managed to survive to the late 20th century but I don't think the contradiction is strong anyhow. In any case the language is fascinating: almost like Basque with very exotic vocabulary (and I had no idea that Erromintxela was that way): it's like you're reading or listening to a very weird Basque in which nouns and adjectives and root verbs are encoded and completely different, yet pronouns and the verbal structure is absolutely normal. "Hiretzat ... dinat... erromeetako... ene... loloena ene... Hire... hautziz... erromenitzak (erromen hitzak?)... latziaz geroz... Zoan mitxaia... dantzari texalitzen zan, haize... txokiak... ni hari... Zethorren... dantzariz... dekhatu nuen... hartan: dekhatu eta... nuen" -- all these words are Basque AFAIK, doubts in some cases, the rest or the poem (four initial verses only) is Roma or whatever. A recommendation when you read Basque in the future would be to ignore the "h", it's only pronounced in the North (and that's why it's written), otherwise excellent work.

[@DaniilSerzhant]

man you won't believe how lucky i am to find this video! I'm a ukranian refugee that lives in spain and speaks 5 different languages by accident, i have a project due today about languages in spain and google the least spoken language in spain and find erromintxela and see this masterpiece, my absolute most sincere thanks to you and have a wonderful day!

[@northstar2839]

Mila esker bideo oso interesgarri honengatik!

[@onlinemusiclessonsadamphil4677]

Thank you for this. I'm part Basque and this is most interesting

[@philpaine3068]

Erromintxela reminds me of the Canadian language known as Michif, which incorporates a massive French vocabulary with a grammar based on the Cree and Ojibway languages. This language is not intelligible to either French or Cree and Ojibway speakers. It has existed for centuries in Western Canada. It is not a "pidgin" or a trade lingo. Many generations of the Metis people grew up with Michif as there first and domestic language. In the late 19th century, it was largely displaced by French, and in the middle of the 20th century, it was replaced by English. But there are still quite a few speakers scattered around the western provinces, and broadcasts in Michif can be found, as well as some books and magazines published in the language. There are ongoing efforts to expand its use. A sample sentence from a children's book: L’tabâ piko ta-nakatihk pakwâcâyihk îkosîsi ôma ta kihcîyimiht Kisê-manitow. [Leaving tobacco when taking from nature shows respect for the Creator.] It is hard to see the French vocabulary buried in this Algonkian grammatical structure, but it's there. There is also a version of Michif spoken in Ontario which is much closer to spoken Canadian French. Here's a sample: Matawnt è an charj dkuir la viawnd. A maw dzi dalé dan lbouaw pi dpawgnyé dé padri, dé lapin, pi un chevreuy. [Well, my aunt is in charge of cooking the meat. She asked me to go into the forest,and try and catch some partridge, rabbit, and a deer.] This type of Michif is essentially a dialect of French where pronunciation is strongly affected by Ojibway. The French vocabulary is evident, and mainly follows French grammar. These two versions of Michif are really different languages. Some people can speak both.

[@gamermapper]

This looks like a very interesting crossover! The unique ethnic minority of mysterious origin living in the oldest European country also with mysterious origins! Hearing about the Romani people in the Basque Country is very cool!!! 😊🟢☸️🔵🫂🇵🇲!

[@tomercohen7494]

I feel the urge to applaud after every one of your videos, thank you for sharing your passion!

[@Buzzygirl63]

This is fascinating - I've never heard of a Roma/Basque language! Thanks for covering this.

[@reubenismyname]

Love your videos. Keep up the good work!!

[@enderaria2313]

"it shouldn't exist, but it does" So does the basque Icelandic pigeon

[@disekjoumoer]

I'm 60 years old, born in South Africa to a Jewish Swiss father - who grew up during WWII and had to hide being a Jew, but still managed to be fluent in 7 languages - and a South African mother of English, Dutch and French ancestry. I'm in Switzerland, drinking a bottle a wine, and immensely enjoying another of Shawn's videos on totally over the top languages. P.S. Shawn, I'm making a case for Xhosa being related to Abkhaz.😜

[@fariesz6786]

throw the Tyrsenian languages (including Raetic) in there and call the whole thing Macro-Rütli 😁

[@gamermapper]

Your heritage and culture is incredibly cool! Also, I think it's a shame that you had to hide that you were a Jew, and that absolutely shouldn't happen today! Personally, I always say that I have Jewish roots and I'm always proud of them! Mazel Tov!!! 😁✡️

[@Home_Rich]

Eww so you're a Turkic Jew. What a shame.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Shelta is not Romani, though Scottish Cant is. A Scottish equivalent of Shelta is Beurla Reagaird. They are both traveller people's languages based on the local Gaelic languages, mixed with English or Scots, due to similar social processes of marginalisation and in-group solidarity as with Romani.

[@mew_liath]

it is kind of a slur, but in italy they are usually called zingari more then rumeni. Its etymology might be "Zincari", it being "workers of the zinc" since it is a soft metal, really plastic even without fire. When not, the other term used is Rom, not Roma

[@asiersanz8941]

Thank you for this video. As a basque speaker I would like to say that any person that makes the effort of learning and speaking our language is so appreciated that becomes "euskaldun", litterally "basque". So it is not strange to me to know that gypsies (ijitoak, kaskarotak, buhameak) were integrated in our society. The language is the key element we the basque people use to define ourselves. Basque Country in basque is Euskal Herria (the land of the basque language), a basque person in basque is euskaldun (the person that owns the basque language) so it doesn't matter what your origin is, what matters is being a basque speaker

[@galileoandthecrystalgatc1915]

Can you make a video on the Taino language. I don’t see it covered that much.

[@unexpected2475]

I'm honestly not sure there's much knowledge of their language that has survived to the present.

[@Səv]

It's extinct

[@Navigator2166]

Thank you for introducing this very special language and culture. Thank you for finding such interesting tidbits from around the world. It’s completely fascinating.

[@eugenicasanovasolanes8338]

Rom 'nation' was formed in Persia from tribes migrated from Northern India centuries earlier. They started to migrate eastwards (from the present Iran) in the 11tn century and they reached Europe (the Balkams) in the early 14th with the Ottoman army.

[@IlluminatingLamp]

Привет. Я Пакистанец живущий в Эстонии и говорю на пять языках; Урду, Английский, Пунджаби, Русский, и Эстонский (В1). В детстве знал и Персидский (Афганский вариант). Было бы интересно с тобой познакомиться 😁

[@cameronclare5084]

The English and Scottish examples of para-romani speakers that you mentioned aren't Romani, they're Irish Travellers that speak a pidgin language based on Gaelic and English.

[@blueskye23]

If this language has expired, no one will know if you mispronounce; if anyone understands it still, they will appreciate your efforts. Thank you for the info. 🌸

[@sashiniranjannair922]

Love your videos!

[@annd3272]

Thank you. So much to know, a little over my head linguistically, but beautiful.

[@fariesz6786]

3:30 i wonder where the lower right pic is from. it's ostensibly German, but.. it's not correct German. Barns Green is a village in the South of England. i thought the picture could be a machine translation of a sign written in English, but it doesn't exactly look like one either, so i'm really baffled.. why would anyone hang up a badly written German-language sign about "gypsies" being banned in the South of England?

[@PerfectBrEAThER]

Barns Green anti-gypsy posters spark police probe BBC 8 October 2018 They were placed outside the school and village shop. Sussex Police said officers had received reports of hate posters and were investigating.

[@MagicMagnvm]

My last name is Montoya, Montoya is a Basque and Spanish surname. It originally comes from a hamlet near Berantevilla in Álava, in the Basque region of northern Spain.[1] During the Reconquista, it extended southwards throughout Castille and Andalusia. The name roughly translates to mean hills and valleys[citation needed]. It has become more frequent among Gitanos than among the general Spanish population.[2

[@jakegarvin7634]

Adoptin' Gypsies, Talking to Algonquians, anywhere something linguistically amazing is going on, The Basque are there

[@OzkAltBldgCo-bv8tt]

​ I challenge you to take the Clozemaster 10 languages 10 questions each challenge. Pick any 10 languages video yourself taking the challenge and inspire us. (whether you have studied are familiar with or not). This is a fun opportunity to showcase your talent with a little bit of humility proving you too are human and still a language learner. You can put the flags of the 10 languages you choose for the challenge in both the thumbnail and the title and tag the video as #takingtheclozemaster 10 languages challenge. While also tagging the languages of the challenge. When choosing from a diverse variety of languages consider this, to include some of those you're familiar with, those that you are not, and those that you will later learn. Choosing to include a conlang like Interlingua and an ancient language like Latin will keep the challenge diverse while bringing recognition to these languages (you may surprise yourself). Consider getting a hold of Clozemaster they may be interested in sponsoring the video. We as a community of language Learners need a challenge that we can all appreciate and try together. To get the most out of the video challenge adjust the settings as follows: put the skills to listening, the question count to 10, and the mode to multiple choice. Then you can adjust the account to dark mode (as it's more attractive) and the default speed to 75% for better hearing the questions. Doing a dry run will ensure all the settings are correct. Keep a notepad by your side to keep track of the language scores. Before you end the video it would be nice if you encouraged other polyglots and language Learners to take up the challenge. Buenas suerte Carpe Diem السلام عليكم

[@SM1LEY1337]

Привет! Недавно наткнулся на твой канал и хотел спросить, с чего лучше начать учить язык, а именно английский.Поскольку ,после окончания школы и уже почти техникума резко появилось желание выучить английский именно , чтобы на нем можно было спокойно разговаривать.Можешь порекомендовать с чего начать?

[@9sunsjuddleponk]

Yes there are many tribes who were called gipsi, but are not self identified as Roma. And there are Roma who do not identity with gipsi people, and reject it fully.

You forgot the Catalan based caló. Although it's quite forgotten nowadays and Gypsies of Catalan origin (most of French Gitanes, for example) just speak Catalan with a few Caló words in between, like «camelar» instead of «estimar» (to love).

[@LarthVolos]

Is Shelta really Romani?

[@LarthVolos]

Checked by myself. Shelta is Irish Travelling people's language. They are not Romani.

[@martinomasolo8833]

Wasn't Romani also ergative from the start? I thought Urdu and Pashto and Old iranian too kinda are

[@egorsokolov6959]

What about the accents of Spanish language? Nice idea if you know Spanish language

[@tanyas8596]

Just wondering if you have ever studied the Table of Nations? It makes a lot of sense when you look at how nations began. Great work!

[@psyraxx39]

9:38 shawn: it shouldn't exist the rest of Europe: we agree

[@aureltoniniimperatorecomun4029]

all indo arian languages are (splited) ergative

[@magnvss]

Given how politicized and ideologically toxified are the linguistic questions in Spain, it would be not surprising that the whole Erromintxela language (as recently named) was weather exaggerated or made up. Most gypsies speak the language of the land in Spain (whether Spanish or the regional language) so perhaps in the past it was only natural that the very few that tried to retain whatever sprinkles of the Roma language they had were influenced by the the local language, when it was was still well spoken in such mountainous, relatively isolated region. Nowadays even Basque is mostly a learned language with the exception of the little towns and cities as, numerically, most of the Basque population speak Spanish. We do have Gypsies in my country too and they are as beloved, because of their behaviors, as in the rest of the neighboring countries. Everyone has their personal experience to attest that, indeed, it's a cultural thing that they keep stronger than their original language.

[@jwolternova1051]

Well, if wikipedia is anything to go by most Erromintxelas are on the French side.

[@tryllon4774]

I just wanted to express my appreciation for Romani way of existence. They face all sorts of hardships perpetually yet they are the most warm, fun and welcoming people and they definitely have an engrained aptitude for music. Thank you Mr. Shawn and all my gadjo love to my Çingene brothers, from İstanbul. Tu but manga gudli tiyak isi mo Rom phrala :) *9/8 rhythm here*

[@leonhardeuler7647]

I've heard that Turkey and Spain are two countries which are relatively chill with the Romanis.

[@pia_mater]

​@@leonhardeuler7647Brazil too

[@mysteriousDSF]

I grew up in Hungary and used to feel like an anti-social, incel nerd until I started making Roma friends. They taught me how to socialise, make friends and act more natural. I will forever be grateful for their gigantic hearts.

[@leonhardeuler7647]

A European(even more so a Hungarian) saying good things about the Roma? Such a wonderful surprise. :)

[@gamermapper]

​@@leonhardeuler7647I've heard somewhere that apparently orban tried to get the support of the local roma community. Idk how true it is and whether I understand it correctly or not but I was surprised.

[@OzkAltBldgCo-bv8tt]

Would switching your IP address to Spain help?

[@wasnt.here.3853]

Ergative-Absolutive Indo-Aryan languages include Kurdish and I believe Pashto as well.

[@Nastya_07]

The term Indo-Aryan is usually only used for the Indian IE languages, meaning that it excludes the Iranian and Nuristani languages (AKA the other branches of Indo-Iranian), Kurdish and Pashto are Iranian languages.

[@janana5917]

could you also make a vid about sinti romani?

[@Lenve]

Very interesting topic. I am from Catalonia, and as I understand, there are still gypsies speaking Catalan (or a Romani mix) in Rosselló (North Catalonia). There used to be a Catalan-Romani community in Catalonia as well, although I believe they are mostly assimilated into the rest of the Catalans now. What most people would understand as gypsies nowadays are the Caló people, who came from the south of Spain with the immigrant wave that took place in the middle of the last century. I'm not an expert on the subject by any means, so if anyone knows better, feel free to correct me.

[@mysteriousDSF]

so since Germanic languages and Indo-Aryan languages are pretty close, does that mean that Erromintxela bears resemblance to Basque-Icelandic pidgin?

[@researcher7578]

Germanic languages are centum and Indo-Aryan are satem, so their relation is pretty distant.

[@user-na1ma3ga6e]

Любопытное совпадение: стал увлекаться цыганским джазом - да, есть и такой и советую послушать - и тут вдруг про них видево.

[@petyrkolew9319]

неси мне песен для слышане😍😍

[@user-na1ma3ga6e]

@@petyrkolew9319 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gGaqiKmlaa-EhKM kzbin.info/www/bejne/n6OuqoOVfsR3gNk kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXXci2Z6gKaDg9U kzbin.info/www/bejne/lWq2pmypqJ2Eo9k kzbin.info/www/bejne/jWXRnaaIqLKpr6M kzbin.info/www/bejne/nZrWep6Yl9Z7e7M

[@marmadukesymesparker]

/ˈroʊməni/

[@dimitardimitrov2421]

МАНГАЛИ

[@llwyfen]

Does this mean basque is not a language isolate, lol

[@pia_mater]

No, Erromintxela is not related to Basque, its just influenced by it

[@LuisAldamiz]

Basque is not a historical language isolate: at the very least ancient Iberian and Sardinian were related (although even these were just residues from the time Vasconic languages dominated most of Europe, in the Neolithic and Chalcolithic).

[@llwyfen]

@@pia_mater if the grammar is fully basque,, idk pal

[@Qvadratus.]

@@LuisAldamiz how come Basques have the same genes as other Western Europeans? at least on the father side. was they assimilated or somehow related from the beginning or what do you think?

[@researcher7578]

​​@@LuisAldamizSorry to tell that but these are merely theories, there is no conclusive proof nor any scientific consensus that Iberian and ancient Sardinian were related with Basque (especially the latter which is only known from a bunch of possible substrate words in modern Sardinian) Likewise , there is no logical reason to think that Vasconic languages were dominating the majority of neolithic Europe, there could be a lot of if not dozens of small unrelated language families. Throwing all into one trashbin in the name of convinance is not a good method.

[@Lejarzamikel]

It is a myth as most basque things.

[@AndriesDaniel]

Made up names , no such thing as roma or romani people , Roma is the great city and Romani was the name of those great people .

[@sonjamikaela1277]

first

[@llwyfen]

Watch the video before you comment loser

[@gianfranco_maldetto_92]

Dude, you are going bald.

[@igarras5285]

as a basque speaker i would gladly speak about anything you like if u contact me!! i appreciate how much u like our beloved language

[@SionTJobbins]

Romani Welsh was spoken, the Welsh Romana, the Woods family especially, were important in retaining Welsh folk music. They'd perform the old songs during the C19th and early C20th when Welsh people felt folk music was vulgar and un-Christian and turned their back on traditional Welsh folk songs and sang Christian hymns instead. We would have lost a lot of Welsh folk songs were it not for the Welsh Roma. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Romani_language

[@tryllon4774]

You can trust them eyes closed when it comes to music :)

[@domca4617]

But not with wallets.