The Sad Story of Red Pikmin

[@PikminAnd]

I will say that if you're doing a purpleless run of Pikmin 2 (no Purple Pikmin for combat outside of the Waterwraith and no Bitter Sprays) then Red Pikmin's higher damage and general expendability is really vital. This, of course, isn't me defending Red Pikmin in Pikmin 2 - the fact you have to massively handicap yourself just for Red Pikmin to be useful really goes to show how poorly they were treated in that game.

[@squizzlor]

I meen better treatment then yellow pikmin. Who lost both their original features throughout the series and now just do electrical work?? Bomb rocks? Nah. Throw hight, gone in the newest sequal. Pickmin 2s new editions of 2 pikmin was good. Purples sorta broke the mold they disnt need to do more damage if thier point was to stun. But thats what happened… I like these changes better then the third game, were flying pickmin alter a huge amoint of the game outside, and rock pickmin….. are just plainly dumb… i dont want a rock with eyes as a pickmin not to mention replacing the old subterranean races… ice continues the rock pickmin trend… though Im less aposrd to their abilities, they could have been done better. Pikmin 4 i just hate ochi more then any new pikmin…. As the dumb mascot just says screw the game you were going to play… and all the unique abilities of the types…. Oachi beats all…

[@arekrekas213]

what the fuck are you talking about, yellow pikmin still get thrown higher in pikmin 4@@squizzlor

[@Gam1ngM3nace]

@@squizzlor I think yellows can still jump higher than the others.

[@gungisgrand225]

I mean personally speaking, I accidentally handicapped myself on my first playthrough of Pikmin 2 by rarely bringing my own purples into caves out of fear of losing them so the only purples I was using throughout the game were the trickle feed of purples in caves, it was a very fun playthrough and made the game way more challenging than I was hearing people say

[@randomnpc445]

@@gungisgrand225 I think your accidental handicap was the way the devs tried to balance purple pikmin, (especially since you already _will_ have to farm for them if you want every treasure, even if you do a completely deathless run and make use of every purple candypop bud up until the Doomsday Apparatus) but the problem there is that purples are just so strong that losing them in combat is pretty difficult unless you're given a clusterfuck of enemies or hazards they flat out can't deal with, which does happen but not often.

[@xerobeat9142]

I feel that most people who discuss the utility of red pikmin dismiss what it's like to be playing the games for the first time. On my first Pikmin 2 playthrough I was averaging around 10 - 15 purples and found reds far more reliable as an expendable damage dealer. In Pikmin 3, the rock pikmin are somewhat of a glass cannon with how you have to continually round them up after pelting them which, when coupled with the general uncertainty of how to approach the enemies and environments, left me relying on reds far more as a continuous damage dealer. Pikmin 4's regressive 3-pikmin limit gives reds value as an all-rounder if you want to rebel against how infantilising the ice pikmin make the game. They're the most beginner-friendly pikmin type, and I think that's valuable in and of itself.

[@BagelBrain]

I rarely ever comment on anything but this is a good comment. Carried a lot of reds on my first playthroughs of 2 and 3 for these exact reasons.

[@RustyNips]

The 3 pikmin limit in 4 guaranteed I basically never used the reds outside of when required so I could use the ones I might need for things and damage dealers were purples, rocks or dog Pink pikmin in 4 I never used can't think of a time they were needed aside from removing some out of reach dead mud skeeter out of the mud in the last area lol

[@itxi]

Exactly, from memory when I first played pikmin 2 my default plan for caves was 20-30 pikmin for each hazard type (20 yellow, 30 blue in case I needed to fight or carry something through water) and fill the rest up with red, with *maybe* 10 white or purple for digging or heavy carrying. I was so paranoid about losing purple pikmin I didn't know they were good in combat because I basically only used reds

[@pepper-deer]

great video! unfortunately, they taste the best out of any other Pikmin so this video has been debunked

[@Livereater4000]

Are you…. Louie?

[@icepapermario99]

Nah man, yellow pikmin be bussin

[@mcmikeygamer9186]

Do they have a sweet or spicy taste? 🤔

[@arekrekas213]

can't you see? it's a bulborb@@Livereater4000

[@Justice449]

@@mcmikeygamer9186probably spicy. Since they ARE related to fire

[@thescarredsinner895]

fun fact, red pikmin are among one of only two types of pikmin that cannot be replaced by Oatchi. the fire starter makes them not replaceble with the other type being rocks who are the only one who can break crystals

[@volvoman5262]

Bomb-rocks + you need purples for water-wraith

[@volvoman5262]

@@localidiot450 no

[@Nic_2751]

But but, Steve…..

[@BearDashAltt]

Steve is now…sad steve

[@Luigi_bros4321]

Steve

[@gooseothy]

Really well-edited video! Im not sure if I quite agree with the notion that red pikmin are trash in 3 though, since their higher damage output compared to most other types and their ability to latch on to things (unlike rock pikmin) makes them a good basic pikmin to have on hand most of the time. But I can definitely see someone just straight up barely using them late game due to the versatility the other types have to offer.

[@tigertoxins584]

With 3, the charge whistle broke the entire balance imo

[@MadMewMew-mu3eq]

Latching on means nothing when the enemy dies in half a second anyways

[@thisisnotacryforhelp5800]

Reds' utility comes from their expendability. The fact that I never need to worry about losing them, because they're so plentiful, makes me feel comfortable using them in dangerous situations. Sure, they're rarely the most useful, but when you need a low-value troop who can do everything decently well, they're there for you.

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Yeah in a strtgey game which Pkimin is just it's own sub genre like most first patry Nintendo IPs... Filler IE cannon fodder units have a massive utliy in that fact alone... So much so a common feature to base a Force around is having the best IE cheapest cannon fodder in the game... Which these forces are normally the easiest to master because they have a low skill ceiling. Also they are the easest to win early games win because they army is so cheap in all the ways. Making them very competive and hardest to balance.

[@stupidmarioplushchannel]

I say red are one of the best, when you have reds they can defeat enemies way better than most PIKMIN

[@CaptinSpyke]

ok i gotta say I dont really care how good or bad red pikmin are since they're just the staple food pikmin in each game post pikmin 1 but I am floored seeing that the snitchbugs can bomb you with your own bomb rocks. thats such a fringe interaction I'm impressed it works like that

[@TheKritken]

Red pikmin might be useful in Bulblax kingdom's final level to retrieve the "Gyroid Bust"

[@RocketRidge]

I had no idea that interaction at 2:00 was possible. I will say purples can be a pain to farm in Pikmin 2 unless you go out of your way to do so, which does make reds fairly handy throughout a portion of the earlygame... unless you savescum which I am not above LOL. To me it seems like the problem is not that reds are underpowered, but rather that they are the most balanced throughout the series.

[@raviolieothedisgustingsupe4504]

Red Pikmin are not bad in Pikmin 2, just outclassed. If you do a no purple run you won't struggle that much because Red Pikmin damage output is still very solid. Your list of areas where reds are useful seems mostly correct for the main game (the only thing I'd point out is the Fiery Bulblax in the Valley of Repose is better fought with reds than blues if you're going for a sprayless run. You can easily leapfrog them across using the small islands in the water.) However, you left out a bunch of Challenge Mode levels on your Red Pikmin usefulness count, including Green Hole, Hot House, Trampled Garden, Cave of Snarls, Abduction Den, and Breeding Ground. (Breeding Ground in particular I'm surprised you didn't even mention. Have you played Challenge Mode recently at all?) The ones I listed don't even include levels where you have only reds, where, surprise surprise, their 50% increased damage is still useful compared to if you had another type. At the same time, in the examples you did give, you were too nice in parts; namely, in White Flower Garden sublevel 2, purples take care of the blowhogs just fine, and in Dream Den sublevel 5 you can just punch the Fiery Bulblax and then lure it off a cliff and the treasure will reappear on the surface, and it's the only treasure on the floor. The fire geysers on the floor aren't hard to take out when you have 100 pikmin and nothing interrupting them. Not to mention the point about getting purples and whites is moot because you will have a grand total of 20 purples and 15 whites at the beginning of the game, which leaves room for 65 reds, so they're still useful by virtue of sheer numbers. Also, the comment about using sprays on sublevel 2 of the Cavern of Chaos is dumb. If you're going to farm up a crapload of bitter spray then obviously you can beat any sublevel, that isn't an indictment against Red Pikmin. Bringing only 5 reds to that sublevel is some of the worst pikmin advice I've ever heard. Bringing 20 and fighting the bulblaxes like a normal human being is how you do it, plus the reds are good for the Segmented Crawbster if you aren't going for the quick kill (or don't know how to, like most players). You could've made a good point about that sublevel too if you brought up that one of the few times Red Pikmin are useful is when the game pulls the rug out from under you late in the game by going "I bet you didn't bring very many reds because you realized they aren't very good, so we pulled an epic trollface win by making you fight THREE fiery bulblaxes with no water and all of them have a treasure." People hate on Pikmin 2 reds so hard it's ridiculous. They can be a good middle ground in certain situations like the Man-at-Legs fight, where they're stronger than yellows and have more verticality than purples. Your bit on counting the number of times reds are useful could've been stronger by pointing out that the big scary fire hazard symbol on certain cave entrances is meaningless in certain dungeons --- in particular, in the Subterranean Complex, where the only use of fire in the dungeon is a couple geysers on a floor full of cannon beetles, and cannon beetles can destroy fire geysers, which you also didn't mention. I'm not calling Red Pikmin amazing, but their role in Pikmin 2 is a lot more nuanced than people think and you didn't really illustrate that very well, the whole section felt like watching a lets player echo the statements of the community, or their own incorrect opinions, without actually checking to see if what they're saying is true. You are a KZbinr, and many people will believe what you say in your videos and tell it to other people, so please, make sure you're correct instead of writing a section of a video based on feelings and hearsay and putting it out in the world. The whole section feels unresearched. And going through every area and ticking a box isn't research, that's data. Having data doesn't give you a free pass to say whatever you want about it (especially if it's sloppily done, like it is here). Just because you went through some effort to prove a point doesn't make it correct. Not to mention this data isn't exactly outstanding if you don't compare it to other types of Pikmin. anyway here's the part where i backpedal. i do, in fact, love your videos, and it's because i love them so much i wrote this. any negative emotion in the above section was not directed at you or everything you have done, just at one section of this video alone. please continue to love the pikmin series and making videos about it. also i understand the absurdity of this comment, im just a guy with too much attachment to the funny carrot game series, if you want to screenshot the above and go "lol look at this guy" in a video or post feel free.

[@Pompy129]

Nintendo always makes two overpowered Pikmin in the sequels and then nerfs them for the new overpowered Pikmin

[@tigertoxins584]

Not true, all of the pikmin suck nectar.

[@That-guy-THE-604TH]

Wow, reds pikmin’s usefulness was once *lost media!?*

[@sam_the_moron]

Blue pikmin are the second most useful pikmin types, almost all areas in every pikmin game has water in them and items in the water

[@Gam1ngM3nace]

Small key argument moment

[@rinzzler366]

and then they release flying pikmin

[@toasturhztoastbunz896]

I wouldn't call them the worst per se, more so very underutilized. Same goes for Blue Pikmin, another type that gets a lot of hate; not bad, just very underutilized.

[@photonic083]

Now I want to preface this with the fact that I have only ever played Pikmin 3 deluxe and 4, so I'll be speaking from what I know by watching other people play Pikmin 2. Please fact check me if I am wrong in any of this. An attribute of reds you are putting aside is availability in Pikmin 2, from what I know, purples are not easily farmable, while reds are. So for example, you may want to use reds for combat instead of purples if you want to not risk losing purples. 1.5x is not 2x, but it's still a significant advantage over 1x.

[@bulborb8756]

yeah purples aren't easy to get as only a very small number of caves are great for farming purples, but if you know what your doing then purples are always better then red's in any combat situation aside from the Fiery Bulblax plus one treasure requires 100 Purples to collect, and that treasure itself while close to your base, it takes half the day to collect it due to how slow purples are

[@gungisgrand225]

I mean going by community consensus, Pikmin 2's Purple Pikmin are the only good pikmin in the entire franchise

[@WaluigiGoesWa]

I think red pikmin in Pikmin 2 actually are pretty useful, since I usually play it pretty safe with purples, having a good reliable 1.5x damage is not bad.

[@perrykv7312]

Tbh, I have to agree, specially considering how uncommon it is to obtain Purples in comparison to Reds, aside, paring them with Purples for combat purposes can work from time to time, so I wouldn't say Red are completely irrelevant in 2

[@bulborb8756]

yeah Purples aren't easy to find as there's only a select few caves like the Subterranean Complex which are great for farming purples, but still Red's while generally good, they are much worse in the 2nd game compared to the fist but i get needing to play it safe with purples cause of their rarity, on top of needing 100 of them to haul the Doomsday Apparatus which takes like half a day to collect

[@Net_15]

Great video! Red Pikmin have noses though and i like the number 1.5 very much so... wrong!!!

[@FroggBoy1]

admittingly i can't deny some of these notions of reds not being better than purple, but they are still FAR from the worst pikmin type. the 1.5x damage multiplier alone makes them better than most other pikmin types as clearing enemies are much faster with them, and again Pikmin 1 fire hazards are more dangerous. Purples may be better in Pikmin 2, but they are also more expensive with their only form of getting more is through their candypop buds, making reds more ideal for fighting since they are more expendible. No, the WORST pikmin would definitly be blues. their only gimic is that they can go underwater. And because of only having that going for them, they have been invalidated entire, 3 TIMES. By bulbmin(who showed up in watery levels half the time), flying pikmin and the newer ice pikmin. Not to mention Oatchi just being a squad on their own, further invalidating the use of blues in Pikmin 4. Exclusive Puzzles and items(and the submerged castle) do not make blues better than reds, it only forces the player to use something that is worse than what they already have. Because even though you wont have to take reds all the time, you would still want to. You will never want to take blues, so the game has to make you.

[@Gam1ngM3nace]

And don't forget Glow Pikmin who functions like Bulbmin except you can only use it night levels and caves

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

counter argument for pikmin 2 : cost of losing 5 purple pikmin : you need to find a flower to regain those 5 purple pikmin cost of losing 5 red pikmin: you dont have those 5 red pikmin in your team until you go back to base. in short, red pikman are good cannon fodder for when you're a wimp and don't want to send the non-disposable pikmin to the slaughter.

[@volvoman5262]

you need 5-10 purples to kill orange bulborb you need 15-20 reds and you need to attack from the butt

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

@@volvoman5262 they are better than blue's and yellow's at killing the bulborb.

[@autismandgaming4532]

Counterpoint: Doomsday apparatus

[@Nieveria]

really hope pikmin 5 does more to make each type fill a significant niche, making more fire hazards *alone* bumped them up in 4, maybe making fire generally deadlier would help too (and on that note, readding instant kill electricity and objectives only yellow pikmin can reach due to their higher throw height to make them more useful too, but it may require removal or retooling of winged pikmin)

[@Beyhammer1]

In pikmin 2 red are still good because purple a hard to get

[@squizzlor]

Honestly I feel like yellows have had the most nerfing. They are neer non recognizable at this time. Pickmin 2 - no longer use bomb rocks Pikmin 3- electricity is not instantaneous death for non yellow Pickmin 4 like the blues replaced by oachi the Mascot…. No longer throw higher, or reach interedting locals…. Oachi has to help them reach things…

[@volvoman5262]

have you even played this game? you can't get the secong flarlic in game withound yellows and there are more

[@squizzlor]

@@volvoman5262 you just give a single use? The hight differences is laughable.

[@volvoman5262]

@@squizzlor how many tresures, flarlic, onion or castways you need blues for combine? 0, that's the number, 1 needed use is bater than zero ( actually 2 )

[@DuckOfWellington]

They are the most changed PIkmin, as they are also given buffs in each PIkmin game 2- immunity to electricity 3- 2x digging speed, use in puzzles and longer throw range 4- 4x digging speed

[@bulborb8756]

to be fair in Pikmin 1, the ONLY reason yellow's where able to use bomb rocks was because if they didn't, they'd be completely useless aside from like maybe 4 or 5 ship parts and the boss fight with Beady Long Legs...that is it, compared to the many times you need red's and blue's for the entire game with how many parts need blues to collect and red's for general combat

[@sethrohl1997]

HEY! Red Pikmin are great for sacrificing if I'm afraid to use Purples in Pikmin 2!!

[@bellsproutproductions445]

Tbh, Red Pikmin are really good for combat in Pikmin 3 since they latch onto enemies and can kill them instantly but since Rock Pikmin exist, Reds get overshadowed.

[@bobonnor]

I use red Pikmin in Pikmin 2 a lot. But only because I am not actually a fan of resetting the sublevel 5 times because I lost 3 purple Pikmin.

[@Theguyguyguy14]

Thats not very nice

[@Theguyguyguy14]

Also pikmin 3 reds are the worst types in the entire series not a lie, but truth.

[@Net_15]

@@Theguyguyguy14 Blue Pikmin

[@balloonrat7274]

@@Theguyguyguy14blues

[@WhitePikm1n]

@@Theguyguyguy14whites

[@niicespiice]

what is the song around 5:45? i really like it

[@buttersddragon]

hearing about all these balancing issues in these games kinda makes me wanna come up with ways of trying to actually balance them

[@volvoman5262]

Original title: Red Pikmin kinda suck...

[@justinrockholt7055]

So, just delete all other pikmin except for the Pikmin 2 purples. No other pikmin should bother taking up space in the code or screen. Got it

[@SenderBender63]

I think if they made fire more dangerous like maybe not instantly killing other pikmin but to the point where exposure to fire would be much more dangerous would give reds a lot more use. On paper they seem fine in every game but get outclassed pretty easily by ones that do more damage or have better overall attributes. I hope they make reds a more integral part of the games as they’re a cool type and should be a solid choice but eh idk they seem to be hard to design for, at least pikmin 4 improved them a ton tho

[@BulbminYT]

What’s “twilight oak”? I only know Formidable Oak & Twilight River. 8:34

[@bulborb8756]

At least after Pikmin 2, Red Pikmin have been able to recover and become useful....which is nice...unlike Yellow's who have been well...awful their whole life

[@Jimmy-cg9db]

I do like the fact even tho this video talks bad about red pikmin you actually do talk about some positives.

[@egg_ox]

I think I have to completely disagree. Sure, purples are just the best ever, but I don't think that they make reds any worse considering that 1.5 times damage on an easily-regernable resource is nothing to sniff at, and they're only amazing in Pikmin 2, whereas 1.5 times damage is always useful no matter what.

[@evilrymon]

... I know this is an old video, but did/do you not realise ultra spicey spray equalises pikmin damage? even purples do the same damage as whites under it. (though with the slam they do still work better) bc of this, yellows, purples and winged pikmin end up being the best for combat if you have sprays (especially winged pikmin) and also it makes rock pikmin useless

[@protocetid]

imonlyhereforpikmin butnotredpikmin

[@Aostrele]

4:03 um you forgot 2p vattle… 🤓

[@tattut5950]

Red Pikmin in 3 aren’t as useless as in 2, yes rocks do more damage but they can’t latch on to enemies, stumble back for a second after hitting an enemy, and after the initial throw do less damage, they both have their uses, rocks are great for getting rid of smaller enemies with less health while reds are better for larger enemies, it ends up being way faster to ambush reds on to an enemy that to throw a bunch of rocks

[@collinstewart64]

“Pikmin Adventure leaves the chat again”

[@Froggeh92]

Winged and whites share the exact same niche but whites are balanced. Winged invalidates whites in Pikmin 4 hard. Poison is extremely rare and oatchi can take it out. Which leaves... speed. Winged wins

[@lazyavatar2479]

The only time I’ve seen myself really use reds in Pikmin 2 is in colossal cavern 3 onion mode but that really isn’t saying much lol

[@Gamerman-lu9bs]

I’m surprised hey pikmin got mentioned at all

[@GreenBlueWalkthrough]

Thinking about Nintendo maskots are mostly like this like it's pretty 50/50 that a mascot is univseral good in their games and most of tghe time it's done to preference... As Mario whole idea is being good at everything and being a solid choice that anyone can use and is OP when mastered... But most see him as ferimy B teir in every game he has to share the spotlight if not dead last... Dsipite the fact that you can master him and easly be S teir but oh well. Also a notble exemple of a Nintendo mascot being far worse then Red pikemen... Is Pikachu in pokemon... As in every pokemon game where you are not forced to use him... The only people who do are etherir die hard fans of the electric mouse or simply what to try the IPs mascot that is so famous people trhink he is the pokemon. And along with Mario are ambasitors for Japan seen at alot of major event in Japan national and international. But in the mainline games Pikachua outside of very few games is bvery hard to get and when you do he is one of the worst pokemon you can get... Be good at best... So of all the "bad" maskots Red Pikmin is fermly in the middle... Also I do believe Nintendo is ok with this as it's maskots do work as the series ambassitors they are from... And well Nintendo is eaasly the best maker of maskots as they have an insane amount and all beloved by fans... Unlike MIcrosoft which only has a handful and Soney which can't get them to stick... Atleast outside Rachet and Astro bot.

[@y2komrade]

“red pikmin are useless” how will you hear them sing then ai no uta then

[@ItsMangoTape]

I don’t think I can make a Luigi joke here, so, uhhhhh Red pikmin is literally one of the ICONS of pikmin. It’s like a Mario game without toads. ITS NOT THE SAME

[@caoistico669]

I dont risk purple pikmin, just go with the usual red pikmin all ways, even more because i use the red for candypop flowers, not saying i dont use purple, but just go with 10 to a cave and etc

[@B.L.U.S]

Also an pikmin's power should not be based arround their required parts

[@BearDashAltt]

Firemin Electricmin Watermin Poisionmin Fatmin Bulbmin Rockmin Wingmin Icemin Ghostmin

[@Supernuclear64]

Wegamin

[@paulwilliams5949]

I use reds to grind reds to make 100 purple's and 30 whites

[@Jqcksremmurd]

Ok but are they good in pikmin bloom?

[@moosecannibal8224]

thank you for the playlist, I'm enjoying tf our of your content. newcomer to the pikmin series of games, played them when i was young barely so i don't count it, but it's great seeing it through the eyes of someone who's played them for a while. (currently playing through 2 and adoring it, I am NOT EMULATING DON'T YOU DARE ACCUSE ME OF THAT) (I am emulating)

[@justsomewheel9379]

Maybe all 3 main pikmin types suck and that's why we have 100 of them

[@Kori-shimotori344]

No they're not, they're the 3rd or 4th strongest because of ice pikmin op abilities

[@B.L.U.S]

It seems your fanbase disagrees with you So i will charm in too They are cheap and strong End of the argument

[@nikoskonstantinidis4069]

and easily replaceable

[@B.L.U.S]

@@nikoskonstantinidis4069 so... cheap as i said

[@B.L.U.S]

Why your complaining about reds when you have blues Honestly reds are the middle of the scale on pikmin usability

[@Kebbo1992]

red midmin (nah just kidding i love them even tho they arent that great)

[@lunathic]

Hey i think youre wrong, red is my favourite color so that makes them pretty good!

[@ThePikminCaptainOlimar]

Nuh Uh

[@DrakeyBahige]

6:33 WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY YELLOWS ARE BAD IN PIKMIN 2

[@nikoskonstantinidis4069]

no bombs sure they stop the install kill electric, but no bombs? eh i'll take what i get

[@dontworry4945]

red pikmin are underutilized in my opinion. i loved the hot areas in 4, but the geysers from 2 and 3 are a push over. fire is DANGEROUS in pikmin 1. where red pikmin shine.

[@darthpotatozqt]

ur obsesed w rhythm heaven

[@goodlydraws6007]

What is this? A video about red pikmin?

[@GunSpyEnthusiast]

counter argument for pikmin 4: killing enemies with ice pikmin will freeze the corpse to bits, wasting it. rock and purple pikmin don't latch on like reds do when you charge at an enemy with oachi.

[@trexmoreau8202]

So BAD!

[@anthonyharrison308]

if you watch "Blue pikmin need a buff" before watching this, you can't look at this video the same way as the creators looking...

[@JNRC62fan]

i agree that Red Pikmin are more useless in Pikmin 3 than Blue Pikmin

[@stephenweigel]

You were generous with 14/139 lol. I wouldn’t include hole of beasts, white flower garden, citadel of spiders, bulblax kingdom, hole of heroes (how are reds better than purples here?), or hazard training, so I would have given it a 7/139

[@Sub2NM09]

He does not pronounce th