The Satisfying Downfall of 'David & Dan' (Game of Thrones Writers)

[@jackhyatt7739]

Imagine running a show so great that you get a deal to do a Star Wars movie, so you RUSH the best show ever made, RUIN THE LAST SEASON, and THEN LOSE the Star Wars movie because of how bad they fucked up 😂

[@zzygyy]

Biggest F in Hollywood.

[@MainframeMilitia]

And in spite of all that, they’re both still insanely rich.😂

[@ColdJimmy]

​@@MainframeMilitiato those narcissistic folks like them they were born into money ... They wouldn't be in that spot without being rich in the 1st place . They always got ahead because of daddy's money ... So with that being said their careers mean more to them than money ...them building a name for themselves is what they always wanted and they ruined that too. They are nothing but fuck up trust fund babies

[@2Duv4Luv]

I don't even care to binge watch GoT because of how bad it ended. I mean you have to be some major azzholes to mess up the greatest tv series in the world

[@Rucker1980]

They spiked the football ten yards away from the end zone

[@Krayd-q5j]

I'm still mad Barristan died like that.

[@realdaggerman105]

It just makes it worse knowing the actor was a huge ASOIAF fan who was excited to finally sink his teeth into some real plot. Then, boom. Best swordsman in Westeros, cut down by some rich twats in an alley.

[@Krayd-q5j]

@@realdaggerman105 If he were alive in Season 8, he could've provided a better catalyst for the Mad Queen.

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

​@@Krayd-q5j his character literally proves Dany isn't the mad queen d&d just pulled that out of there asses .

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@thatoneblackdude3333 how does his character prove she won't eventually snap. in the books she does some cruel things when she's still in Slaver's Bay

[@thatoneblackdude3333]

@@b1bbscraz3y because he debunked it himself when he met Dany he told her he saw no taint in her she's nothing like her father thus proving she won't go mad like him , doing cruel things has nothing to do with being mad tons of characters do cruel things even Jon is he also going mad ?

[@abandonallhope.1040]

I don't feel any satisfaction. If George doesn't hurry his ass and finish those books this will be the only ending we get.

[@Neverhadachance05]

Blame mostly goes to George in my view

[@leepreston9637]

The show ended exactly like George told them it should.

[@bobafett9348]

@@leepreston9637 No it didnt.

[@AG-iu9lv]

Did you miss the part where the books suck? He'll never finish them because he lost the plot, quite literally; he's lazy; he knows they suck; and he doesn't want to.

[@bobafett9348]

@@AG-iu9lv Yes I missed the part... Same as I have missed you ever reading them.

[@GalenJoyce-ff2cp]

If Dan and Dave didn't want to do more seasons, why didn't HBO just get new writers?

[@brianmcgarry1632]

Lol

[@jacksonmcnuggets7488]

Then they'd be payed less

[@eliclaunch123]

They wanted all the credit for AGOT not half of it.

[@LaZanyarr]

Dumb and Dumber chose not to let other writers in it and they were able to choose this because it was their project. They didnt want to let other writers in because they wanted ALL the credits so they could have their DNa all over GOT as a show that was all of their making. Their egotism destroyed the show and is a nice personal lesson for those two egoic asses but a shitty way to end the best thing ever on TV.

[@RM-ld4mo]

Never heard of contracts?

[@KrytoRift]

Probably the biggest disappointment of my life and ive been divorced

[@Jeremy-ql1or]

Probably the biggest disappointment of my life and I'm your father.

[@Brandon-tb5st]

@@KrytoRift lol

[@KrytoRift]

@@Jeremy-ql1or you're dead?

[@odiau5350]

I feel you. I did not watch S8 until it ended as I was waiting to binge it. I have still not been able to watch it 😖

[@shmiga02]

SAAAAAME

[@YugoEdo]

The way the show ended makes me not even care about Game of Thrones or want to even rewatch it.

[@fortythreenorth2518]

Why do you think I came all this way?

[@jackhyatt7739]

Yeah it’s really hard to go back and watch the good seasons because I know where things end up

[@acornhead666]

Agreed. But for me HOTD did reignite a little bit of excitement for the series.

[@Wtfevenisthepointofus]

​@jackhyatt7739 even with hotd I'm just rolling my eyes when they talk about prophecy knowing none of them go anywhere. Love hotd but season 8s stink is still there.

[@levilastun829]

I tried to rewatch Game of Thrones but quite after a couple of episodes in the first season. I just couldn't, knowing the crap ending.

[@maurog.ocaranza4142]

Im so glad Dumb&Dumber are being remembered as trash

[@jakenake3401]

if show ended on season 4 it would've been greatest show ever done, also why didn't Jamie mention that Tysha wasn't a street girl, Tyrion killing he's father and starting villain arc after those words would've been so much more pleasant

[@dracodracarys2339]

And the worst part is HotD forcing us to remember Season 8 with the "prophecy of the song of ice and fire" and the daenerys cameo. Like, let it be its own thing and try not to tie it in with the worst ending in recent pop culture history!

[@bonganixalisa4568]

They are probably setting up to do a spin off to finish the white walker story arc with George's proper ending since George told Ryan how his book series ends. This is of course, after HOT D wraps up

[@LoneWolf-xe6ye]

​@@bonganixalisa4568The copium is real

[@mocha5742]

I can overlook this, because I feel like HotD is more focused on book lore. And in the book, the prophecy is incredibly important to the foundations of the Targaryens and Starks, and is even hinted at with Jacerys’ time in the North in Fire and Blood.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@bonganixalisa4568 that would be the worst idea I heard since the Jon Snow sequel

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@mocha5742 the books don't explicitly have the prophecy including Aegon the Conqueror and justifying Targaryen rule on the Iron Throne

[@bhavyasharma2221]

bro just speak fast without those pauses

[@LeoArmada]

IKR, I was about to comment the same thing. Had to watch the vid at 2 times speed.

[@giovannycarlo8141]

DAYUM. Though I was the only one. Had to put tje video at 1.25x

[@grimmywizard]

He thought he's getting dramatic effects of them pauses 🤣

[@jsky2695]

bro, just listen in 1.5-2x speed

[@StuffCentralstuffs]

Ayyee, W speed up

[@cbl8439]

like gerris drinkwater said to quentyn "if the guy called 'the bold' tells you 'i wouldn't do it if i were you', you should fucking listen" or something like that. when a book reader that gets to interprete a character he loved says "you shouldn't kill him, its gonna be bad" to you, you should fucking listen insted of make fun of him

[@b1bbscraz3y]

there's a lot of book readers who believe Barristan will die in the books most likely soon, because there's already plenty of pov characters and there's about to be even more pov characters in Slaver's Bay with Tyrion and the Greyjoys

[@gm9460]

Yeah but he would still have got the whole of that season. Wasn’t he mugged off in like episode 2?

[@ellaphx]

I personally will never waste another minute of my life watching any D&D product 🤷‍♀️

[@fatalshore5068]

Agree. I refuse to watch 3 body problem as a matter of principle.

[@ellaphx]

@@fatalshore5068 I'm still so angry at them 😂 But aside from that I also just have zero faith in their ability to write any kind of halfway decent story.

[@Coburnify]

Ever

[@jasonpalacio2115]

"Season 2 was just like season 1, except it was season 2" Wow. That's some amazing insight.

[@cureforintroversion1262]

I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t mention the complete character assassination of Stannis Baratheon, which began all the way back in Season 1. As pointed out by KZbinr Macabre Storytelling, book Stannis was involved pretty much since the beginning, having helped his brother win his throne and defend it. It was he and NOT Jon Arryn who started the investigation into the parentage of Cersei Lannister’s children. Knowing that Robert would just brush him off, Stannis goes to Jon to start the investigation together. In exchange, Stannis offers to foster Jon’s son Robin on Dragonstone to protect him from the Lannisters. Not knowing why, but not wanting this to happen, Lysa runs to Littlefinger to prevent this. He gives her the idea to poison Jon. Fearing that the Lannisters are on to him and pissed off that Robert never really appreciated him - never making him Hand of the King or even Lord of Storm’s End, Stannis flees back to Dragonstone. In the show, Stannis seems jazzed about his brother’s death, having seemingly never suspected the legitimacy of Cersei’s children. Book Stannis only has Melisandre around as a means to an end. Show Stannis shows him as a religious zealot who will follow anyone if it will give him power. The ends always justify the means. Also Book Stannis learns to win people over and things go a lot better for him in the book.

[@SwfanredLotr]

Unfortunately you're right. There is also the irrirating fact that the show constantly tries to justify Renly trying to take the Iron Throne for himself with the mere arguments that his brother doesn't bring sympathy to the people and he's just a soldier unfit to rule.

[@SerbAtheist]

Oh, please, tell me about the 'character assassination' of a character whose literal introduction involves innocent people being burned alive at the hands of his appointed religious zealot and sex toy. No difference between the book and show on this part.

[@cureforintroversion1262]

@@SerbAtheist Normally I would agree with boycotting a killer, but this is the Game of Thrones universe we’re talking about. Much like David and Dan, you don’t seem to care about the nuances behind Stannis’ decisions and perhaps you feel that way about other characters too. In the show he is a religious zealot but in the book, it’s his wife who coverts to the Lord of light first. Melisandre is just a means to end, which he never would have had to resort to if he was as popular as his brothers. It was only as his desperation got worse, which was not helped by his jaded faith in the Seven - the religion he believed in when he saw his parents die in Shipbreaker Bay that his defences were finally worn down. The “sex toy” part allowed him to kill Renly, and as Tywin Lannister stated, a move like this would have insured that the least amount of men who would have had to die would do so. Stannis fights because he is the rightful heir and says “I was trying to win the throne to save the Kingdom when I should’ve been trying to save the Kingdom to win the throne”. I sincerely doubt he would have garnered any popularity at all if D&D were not needed to showcase him as a villain. And in case you can't tell the difference, to show that he cares about proper succession more than himself in the books, he tells the Iron Bank to buy his sellswords no matter what happens to him. Should he die, their priority is to crown his daughter or die in the attempt. Also even if he was meant to be a villain or tragic character, it’s still important to show the nuances of his inner conflicts or how he got to where he is. Otherwise you can just easily argue that the likes Daenerys Targaryen, Jamie Lannister, Tyrion, and the Hound didn’t suffer character assassinations either. I think I need to clarify. A character does not need to have a tragic ending or have gone from a protagonist to an antagonist to be classified as having gone through a character assassination. I would argue that nearly every major character in GoT has been bastardised at least to some extent. What matters is that D&D did not care about their characters motivations and their subsequent underlying motivations. You don't need to make your characters likeable but you do have to make them understandable.

[@HansWurst1569]

@@SerbAtheist Bro its not real hahahahaha

[@SerbAtheist]

@@HansWurst1569 Then why are y'all getting your panties in a bunch so much over the final season to the point of wishing harm to the people who made the entire show happen?

[@RogerCh888]

Tyrion didn't sleep with sansa in book 3, idk what you're talking about

[@georgijo]

i was looking for this comment.

[@movieloverfan18]

Think about all of the things they left out. Lady Stoneheart, Fake Aegon, the prophesies if the Ghost of High Heart, Brienne travels in the Riverlands, the Broken Man speech, Nimble Dick and the Whispers, the Truth about Tysha, the plague in Mereen, the Dornish Master Plan, Arianne seduction of Arys Oakheart, Sansa in the Vale with Harry the Heir, Jeyne Poole, the murder mystery in Winterfell, Qaithe and the glass candles, the Fragrant Seneschal, the giant turtle in the Rhoyne River, the Grand Northern Conspiracy, the Manderlys and the Freys, the North Remembers speech, the great battle for Winterfell, the season uniting Westeros, and then the final season with the Battle for the Dawn with Nymeria and a huge pack of wolves fighting the white walkers and their Ice spiders. I need them to remake this show so bably.

[@Luciana_McC_99]

Exactly. So much stuff they left out going all the way back to the first episode set them up to ruin later seasons.

[@laser__unicorn]

With advancements of AI, I'm wont be surprised if in a couple of years a small group of people decide to properly finish the series with AI and proper directing/writing and video editing skills

[@user-rv8ye3px5h]

True, but none of those were getting the story any closer to finale. Martin was right, there was plenty material, but it was all making the books inflated, and would do the same to the show. Which is not neccesserily a bad thing, if you have hungry for more fans, HBO willing to payroll three or five more seasons, and showrunners dedicated to keep doing what they were doing, instead of trying to wrap things up and move to greener Star Wars pastures. 2 out of 3 we had, but D&D wanted out. No, not out. They wanted it over and finished by them. That selfishness on their part is why I can't forgive them. If they were tired, or scared of running out of material, or whatever, thay should heve left and be remembered fondly forever after. They should heve let others continue, or most probably, fuck it up. Howerver, they decided to to rush to end and it was trully the worst decion in the history of TV shows, simply because lazy troll Martin haven't provided ending material to adapt, but only tarse pointers. It was certainly not enough for good at adaptation, and really poor at original creation D&D. As for ending material, Martin still failed to have it published, so it says someting about it all. Imagine, D&D not ending at season 8, but instead soldering on for 5 more seasons, incorporating all those side characters and their fascinating stories and never getting close to ending the main plot. Imagine the backlash from fans finally getting tired of this hitting around the bush. Imagine preassure coming from fed up HBO demanding the satisfactory end to show that perhaps starts loosing the audience and blaming D&D for it. While Martin still trolls around and not delivering promised, satisfactory end material, insted adding more characters and threads? And doing billion other projects on the side. God damn, I hate D&D for ruing the show, but I hate Martin even more. For D&D it was unwinnable battle, without Martin's support. They had only one good move, and it was leaving the show after season 4, or at latest season 6, and let others be blamed for inevitable failure, but they missed the clues. Perhaps started to belive in their own hype, I don't know. But here we are, 8, or nine years later and Martin still hasn't finished damned story. Tells you everything you need to know about the guy.

[@justdirt]

He is just Aegon, please stop using fan theories as if they are canon

[@movieloverfan18]

@@user-rv8ye3px5h I agree, they should have left and gone to do StarWars. They thought they could finish it in two years and go out on top. Instead they destroyed their reputations, the Star Wars deal disappeared. I wish they had left after season 4, then new show runners could have put in many of the things they cut out. But I imagine they would have wanted to leave on the high of Daenerys coming back to Westeros. People would now be saying, oh if they had only stayed.But they would have left the show when it was great and we will never know if maybe they would have given us a better Star Wars than we got. Anyway , one day they will reboot GoT and hopefully someone will finish the last two books based on Whatever GRRM has written of them.

[@EubyGamingRES]

Man i can’t stand these AI voices. The gaps between sentences and commas is so blatant, that’s all i can notice. These people should at least edit the audio to give it a natural flow, it’s too distracting lol

[@jimjohnson6944]

The funniest part is I'm pretty sure that's his real voice 💀

[@hyboirds1536]

Lmfao! Thats not an AI voice, as crazy as it sounds. I think dude might just be a bit slow in the head. That hilarious that he sounds so weird that people think it's AI hahah!

[@andrasylvan9915]

@@hyboirds1536 A bit slow in the head? You are an awful person. I'm sure hew is just being monotone on purpose. Many people do that...

[@JonNogo]

Yeah as much as I'd like to, I cannot watch this entire video with the way the speech is lol

[@andersschmich8600]

In fairness narrating can be hard and stressful, and based on the sound of his voice it wouldn’t surprise me if English is his second language.

[@PrincessLicorice]

This was the man who thought it was a good idea to sew Deadpool's mouth shut? He's lucky he made it as far as he did.

[@meteorfromspace]

Omg, so true. That’s actually insane…😅

[@matttordone562]

You really gotta work on your pace bro. Im turning this off 5 mins in because im becoming inpatient listening to you.

[@jimjohnson6944]

The 1x speed listenoooor

[@tangyferbreze]

@@jimjohnson6944even sped up it’s distracting. just… really stilted speech. like, the pauses are still 2sec long when his actual words are so fast they’re barely comprehensible. plus a monotonous delivery

[@spike2659]

average tik-tok brained viewer.

[@kedrprao]

D and D are not great ORIGINAL writers but they were genuinely brilliant at adaptation. First 4 seasons had very rare low points.

[@user-rv8ye3px5h]

And then, starting with season 5 there was less and less to adapt, and they had to create. Oh, boy. We all saw the results. Both Ds and lazy troll Martin are equally to blame for how Game of Thrones fell from grace.

[@alphagamer9505]

When they choose to adapt that is, because they wipe their asses with Feast and Dance,for them asoiaf was only 3 books

[@alphagamer9505]

​@@user-rv8ye3px5hthat is bullshit,they had more 2 books to adapt and wipe their asses with them A correct adaption of Feast and dance would give a Season and a half

[@WalkerChristopher11]

Of course Barriston the bold would stand up for the source material.

[@weedys6264]

Nah you got book 3 Tyrion all wrong. he didn’t pressure Sansa, he gave her a choice. Shae had it coming n I don’t blame him for ending her. Tyrion lied to Jaime because he jaime lied to him about his first wife. He said those things to hurt him cause he was hurt. He hates Cersei though which you can’t hold against him either.

[@DefaultName-du3kr]

D&D did soften up all the main characters though, and they made ones they did not like worse. Like Stannis.

[@johnaverill6308]

GRRM describes tyrion killing Shae as his blackest deed, so yeah him killing her wasn't necessary and was purely driven by his rage and his lust for revenge

[@Constantinch]

They executed 4-5 season of the show flawlessly, making one of the best TV shows of all time and then you have people wondering why HBO execs trusted them. Well that's why. Stop acting like you don't know.

[@johnaverill6308]

I think he meant more specifically with the writing. They should never have been trusted with writing any of the plot. They're great at adapting, not at creating

[@Constantinch]

@@johnaverill6308 sure, that ended up being true with later seasons. But in early seasons, some of the best dialogue was not from the books. Great example was conversation between Cersei and Robert, but there were many other great ones. The big problem was that it seems like they were already bored with GoT and wanted to move to other projects. For me that is insane, but many people close to the show indicated that to be the case.

[@johnaverill6308]

@@Constantinch pretty sure other writers came in and wrote those show exclusive scenes, at least most of them. All the stuff they've written in the past is mid at best and nothing as close to as complex as asoiaf was. HBO should've known better than to trust them with writing GoT. Yeah I think them wanting to move on was part of it, but I think it was mainly their egos led them to believe they were too good for GoT

[@b1bbscraz3y]

"flawlessly" but Dorne was in season 5

[@TheRubenMar]

George was very involved in the first 4 seasons, we don't know exactly what he or anyone specifically did, but he wrote an episode per season, and according to George they would listen to his suggestions a lot, but stopped listening in later seasons. They were indeed on the first season's good scenes and good dialogue that were not from the books, but somehow from s05 the scenes and dialogue that were not from the books, got worse and you could tell. To me, it was super obvious on season 6 that characters sounded dummer when speaking. It was frustrating to read the reviews not addressing it.

[@Not-Kurosawa]

the sad thing is they still couldve made a somewhat satisfying ending to season 8 if they actually TRIED, seasons 5-6 were still great seasons despite some flaws and that was because they had to improvise having run out of source material, instead they just gave up on it completely. Most deserved downfall of all time

[@SerbAtheist]

You think the point of the final season was to be 'satisfying'? That might equals right, good vs evil, chosen prince, dragons are cool, revenge is awesome and self-righteous violence meted out at the bad guys aplenty? You think THAT was the point of the show? I can assure you the ending was extremely satisfying to those that paid attention to the themes of the show.

[@ZachBPresentz]

​@SerbAtheist speak for yourself, most of us book & show lovin' GoTs fans are outraged at that lazy, illogical, disastrous ending. Let's have Daenyrys, someone who wanted to "break the wheel," who advocated for slaves, for women & children to all live in harmony & fairness... "JUST BURN THEM ALL".....bc she's having a love quarrel. And then, let's kill off the most cunning, the most secretive, the master of spies, bc he all of a sudden changed his mind. He "likes" & "believes" in Jon Snow now? A dude he hardly even knows?! The spider would've never gotten caught out by anyone - he is the master. This is just 2 of the many, many mistakes made by D&D. Why do you think the execs over @ Disney/Star Wars dumped them exactly a day or 2, right after the GoTs finale? They didnt want a sh¡tshow like that one on their hands. Watching all of the GoTs fans clawing their eyes out over it sealed their fate.

[@Not-Kurosawa]

@@SerbAtheist dafuq you mean bro?? i said satisfying as in an ending that atleast had above average writing, you said allat just to comepletely miss my point. if you think this ending was good and "Satisfying" you seriously need help because there is no way in hell that it was written well, happy ending or not season 8 was horrible and rushed

[@Not-Kurosawa]

@@SerbAtheist this clown really thought that season 8 was received poorly because people wanted a happily ever after ending💀😭

[@SerbAtheist]

​@@Not-Kurosawa You wanna be Ptolemy and insult those who show you the uncomfortable truth, go right ahead. But look at all the supposed 'fixes' to the final season: almost all of it is third rate schlocky fan-service. The vast majority of these scenarios involve Dany at the Throne, Jon at the Throne or both. 'Pictures of AI generated Jon and Dany's children and baby wolves and dragons with the caption 'The ending we deserved.'

[@sabojezles]

David Benioff is actually a decent writer, he not only wrote the Spike Lee film The 25th Hour but also a film that I think is really good but was a massive box office flop called STAY with Ewan McGregor, Naomi Watts and Ryan Gosling. Still he f****ed up.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

3 Body Problem was also pretty decent

[@McHobotheBobo]

Weiss definitely seems to bw the more headass of the two

[@jamesramos4349]

I stopped watching at 2:38 Your pauses while talking is insane.

[@getsemani_rar]

bro pls talk normal

[@kinman3051]

I didn't notice until I looked at the comments

[@daynanielsen6956]

I just increase the speed to x1.25 or x1.50, the voice is fine, it's just too slow.

[@tyrannozilla]

Not only were D&D incompetent with the last season, they were incompetent with the series as a whole. They ignored vital plot lines from the novels, skipped most of the magic (because it wasn't mainstream enough for them), and most of all, they didn't have the experience to pull this off well. Seriously, say what you will about season 2 of HOTD, but it will never be as bad as everything involving these two imbeciles.

[@mohammedarafatlone]

In my eyes ALL BLAME GOES TO GEORGE FOR NOT FINISHING THE DAMN BOOKS AND VISITING STUPID ASS CONVENTIONS, INTERVIEWS AND SHIT HE CRUMBLED UNDER PRESSURE HE SHOULD'VE FINISHED THE BOOKS AND THEN THEY SHOULD'VE STARTED THE TV SHOW💀 BRO GAVE THEM THE BEST SOURCE MATERIAL AND THEN GAVE THEM LITERALLY NOTHING it's like Shakespeare writing 50% of the play and then handing it to you to complete the rest WHICH YOU 100% WILL FUCKUP since you can't write even 10% of what he can

[@KadayiPolokov]

Agreed. If he'd spent less time fucking about on sidecar projects as well as having his ego stroked at conventions and more time at his desk working on the books, they'd have had more to adapt.

[@Luciana_McC_99]

That's not a good enough excuse they cut out so much material going all the way back to the first season that set them up to ruin later seasons. Like so much source material was cut way before season 6 .

[@user-rv8ye3px5h]

I agree. D&D hold their share of blame for I guess arrogance in thinking they could finish it without input of Martin but most of all for rushing it. For that I agree they are rightfully blamed for the flop of season 8 (and 5, and 6, and 7 too). But this god damned troll Martin escaped the responsibility somehow despite not delivering the last book for decades now? He is as much at fault as they are, he and his lazy ass. But people seem not to remeber it.

[@marcus-gu8zm]

bro get over yourself, he wrote an amazing series and lost the motivation to finish it after releasing thousands and thousands of pages and extended lore. it happens, he's only human.

[@haimantimukherjee6011]

Agree with GRRM not finishing the series, but so much was left out in the show. Also, with the books published, a far better ending could have been scripted

[@pancakeman22987]

According to d&d at a panel, they specifically took out fantasy elements whenever possible, they didn't want to pander to that kind of fan, implying fantasy is 'too feminine'. Imagine removing one of the key elements of the story because you personally think its silly lmao

[@Arander92]

This is the ONLY reason GoT collapsed. I’m sick of people going on and on about “this character should’ve been king” or “this character should’ve killed the Night King” blah blah blah It’s solely because they had no respect for the fantasy elements of the show. It’s a FANTASY SHOW and they hated the FANTASY elements!!! How the fuck does that even happen?!?!?!

[@ashefell]

bro really putting 2 second spaces between every other word to lengthen the vid

[@scoutsleepe3620]

Honestly f*** them. They destroyed this. How they will ever get anymore contracts is beyond me. The actors must have been devastated.

[@tomnorton4277]

Emilia Clarke was heartbroken but she took it like a real professional. She never lashed out at the fans, unlike Peter Dinklage and Sophie Turner.

[@Twizington]

Holy cow dude stop with the pauses, I can’t even watch this video. Wildly obnoxious.

[@karstenvoigt7280]

There's something, only good writers can do: Creating credible characters, who are smarter than the authors themselves. GRRM is a true master of this art. Mediocre writers therefore have to be more smart than they are talented to write smart characters, or they'd rather don't write them at all. But really bad writers use certain tools that almost never work and usually ruin the story. Two of them are: 1.: Dumbing everybody else down. 2.: Making established smart characters tell everyone, how smart that other character is. And as soon as D&D ran out of GRRM's source material, they not only used but overused both - and by that left no doubt about what kind of writers they are. Now, they could have hired someone to help them. HBO's offers were almost limitless. And they i.e. already had Mark Gattiss, an experienced and brilliant writer, already in the project as an actor. But they - in their hybris - rejected anything that could have helped save the show. And that way they did not only become a prime example for bad writing, but also of bad work ethics. This made their downfall deserved and predictable.

[@vittoriacolona]

There' a rumor that Benioff' Daddy being a head manager at Goldman Sachs ( which finances a lot of Hollywood shows) was part of the reason he got it.

[@gnarpow]

I’m quitting at 1:34. Was excited but those pauses are horrible. Jesus bro. Learn to talk normal lol.

[@classicantonn9047]

Awesome video. But why do you talk so paused between sentences? Not a critique, just a comment

[@elliotwalsh3151]

AI

[@herefortheshrimp1469]

There’s nothing wrong with giving a critique…especially a valid one…which is what your post is lol

[@alcyonae]

We’re too used with overly polished edits that we’ve forgotten how humans speak.

[@roddo1955]

​@@alcyonae? Don't you speak to your friends and family in real life?

[@alcyonae]

@@roddo1955 do you know that identifying context is part of basic literacy skills? I’m obviously commenting on video essays.

[@Koko-ql4fg]

Someone tell Kevin Hart that targaryens aren’t immune to fire. They’ve been killing each other with dragons since the beginning. It was only Daenerys who is immune to it.

[@Emy-fv5ny]

I think George wrote some of the scripts for the first 4 seasons then he wasn't there anymore.

[@zzygyy]

1 to 5 they had George and the books. Season 6 is when the downfall happened

[@Emy-fv5ny]

@@zzygyy 5 was awful too.

[@b1bbscraz3y]

@@zzygyy you forget about Dorne, that was season 5. they chose to cut characters and just automatically give Daenerys the entire Dornish fleet out of nowhere

[@duckchen2676]

@@zzygyy george stepped away during season 5 but they still had the books

[@duckchen2676]

@@b1bbscraz3y if you were watching it was clearly because varys teleported to dorne to negotiate for them and then used his powers to teleport the ships back to Meereen

[@seanorange5633]

i went to hypno-therapy to try to forget that season 8 happened...............#notmyseason8...???

[@GreatGreebo]

I feel your pain …let me know if it worked and maybe I’ll try it. I just want to forget 🤣

[@AgentSmith1991]

Your presentation wasn't bad, but your script and delivery could have used some polish, imo. Showing some of the clips from others cast a negative light on your material as well. But I enjoyed the video, thank you for taking the time to make this video about the show that went from the most famous to the most infamous. I'm glad that their career path went the same way season 8 did. I hope S8 gets retcon'd or that some day they reboot the whole series and do it right from start to finish.

[@DrFrankNStein-sf2ww]

Sad thing is that they are doing the exact same thing with "The Three Body Problem" !

[@LucasBR702]

I haven't read the books Could you explain to me?

[@DrFrankNStein-sf2ww]

​@@LucasBR702 The first book is almost like "The X-Files" with their alien conspiracy storyline. It is slow and builds tension. The reader never knows more then the characters in the novel. When a scientist finds out about the countdown it is mysterious and strange and, you guessed it, builds tension. Simply informing the viewer that some people are seeing a countdown takes away the experience of encountering it for the first time. That was just one example. Differences between the Netflix series and the novels: 1) The stars don't blink at all. The microwaves in the cosmic background radiation does. On a monitor which one of the novels protagonists was told to watch. So the public NEVER sees the night sky blinking. 2) The "Sophons" are WAY to powerful in the series. In the novels they can only observe and mess certain experiments up on a sub-atomic level only. 3) Sophon as a character did first apear in book 3 3) The brain in the spacecraft (staircase project) happened in book 3. 5) The ship, the "Judgement Day" shouldn't have had any kids aboard. 6) The game "Three Body" was designed by the Trisolarians, the games tech was entirely Earth's technology using a special suit and a VR helmet, like in "Ready Player One". The list goes on, and on, and on. And don't get me started with the white washed characters. I understand that changes have to be made when adapting a book into a TV series but these changes have to makes sense. Watch the Chinese series "Three Body" from Tencent. THAT is a faithful adaptation. It has an English sub. Ps.: This is just my own, personal opinion.

[@user-rv8ye3px5h]

I heard the book they based a show on is finished though. If so, well, big , massive diffrence, that. Adaptation, this they can do decently. Creating their own stuff, not so much.

[@pallyjaius]

Had my suspicions that these guys were washed, when they skipped Tyrion's first battle in the first season, then the character assassination of Stannis, and the lack of Lady Stoneheart, to name very few. The one that solidified it for me was, completely flipping Jaime's rescue of Tyrion, it's the moment when their relationship crumbles and seems unrecoverable, in the show it's a strengthening of their bond. They went from adaption to fan fiction.

[@asarishepard8171]

They grifted their way through their meeting with Martin. I want to meet Martin one day so I can tell him they got the correct answer to Jon snows mothers identity from any book fan in an online forum. We all knew what was going on around 1999. Just reading the first book, you have to look further than whats being said. Lyanna in her bed of blood. The blue flowers she loved. The tower of joy for rhaegar being the tower of grief for ned. Its written subtly that i doubt dumb and dumber knew just by text alone. They asked someone.

[@youngdanz8149]

Good video I enjoy your insights . But with all due respect, don’t be pausing like that so often ! Try to formulate sentences without such a hasty pause ! Cheers

[@acountryboysopinion6001]

After Season 4, they ran out of book material. But George said they could've got 11 - 13 Seasons from the book material.

[@redrl5979]

George also said that he is almost done with Winds, and that was 2015

[@bobafett9348]

They didnt run out of anything... They Straight out ignored Dance With Dragons and nitpicked events from A Feast for the Crows

[@redrl5979]

@@bobafett9348 Faithfully adapting aFFC & aDWD would have completely killed the show. They would’ve had to add 3-4 extra seasons of meandering plotlines that goes absolutely nowhere, being left with an even bigger clusterfuck to somehow logically tie together because George is still incapable of finishing the books. Not even Geroge knows how to bring this mess to a close and he has all the time in the world and does not have to also think about the logistics of managing the biggest TV-show in the world.

[@bobafett9348]

@@redrl5979 Faithfully adapting plotlines they chose to use and butcher wouldnt kill anything.

[@redrl5979]

@@bobafett9348 It is obvious that you don’t understand the practicalities and limitations of running a TV-show. Having Brienne spend 2 seasons “looking for a maid of three-and-ten” is trash television, and don’t get me started on Areo and the general Dorne plotline, or Quentyn Martell’s shaggy-dog story. Luckily for you, you’ll be able to read about all the intrinsic details and meticulously plotted character development in Winds and aDOS - I think the expected release date is 2050, but 2060 is just as likely at this pace.

[@elizabethshah]

Loved it when the Star Wars' people pulled out of the contract. They saw that last episode with everyone Elsa and said, "No, not me."😂😂😂😂

[@88happiness]

I'm always surprised that D and D got Jon's mum right!

[@JamesDeBall]

They read it on Reddit stg

[@user-rv8ye3px5h]

That's what they all say, D&D, and Martin, but is that even a truth? We have no idea what happened then. Notice that they never, ever actually say that name of Jon's mom during those interviews, not until it is revealed late in the show. Perhaps during that conversation they have guessed wrong, but Marting made decison anyways? For other reasons. Maybe for money and promise of creative control? Then they concocted the nice story about final test question just to give some solid footing to D&D, both rather inexpierenced and not at all successful writers (su they would look more convincing when appraching HBO) AND shut the faces of other writers, most probably better ones who were refused before? I don't put that scenario past Martin, who certainly could have thought of such plot.

[@AdrianMartinez-ho6db]

Im willing to bet most people know these guys as Dumb & Dumber as I’ve heard them repeatedly been called

[@AKRex]

I remember meeting Ian (Ser Barristan) in person at the Thronefest here in the UK. He voiced his dissatisfaction about his character's end during an interview session that they did there and said the same to me in person when I met him, I ofc shared the same sentiment and he seemed happy to hear that other fans also were on his side. Him and his character were really done dirty.

[@songsayswhat]

I just don't buy the "who is Jon Snow's mother" question/answer because the fandom had long figured it out. It was no secret whatsoever. I think it's more likely the money was there plus the technical capability to recreate his vision.

[@frankreilly1484]

Calling Troy poorly written is insane

[@leonardoferrari4852]

Troy is a shit show

[@Vadapalli_Vivek]

Well they sevearly reduced the magic and the gods which were the important aspects in the illiad.

[@Balajohn_]

@@Vadapalli_Vivek I mean the story to be about people and only people was a nice approach. Only problem with the movie is that it wasnt something special to justify budget and expectations. Even the actors didnt care that much

[@ziondragon]

It is poorly written if you actually read the Illiad

[@digge2210]

It's poorly written to be a movie about the Iliad, the Iliad exist, they could just copy that, not a crime, Troy is literally the Iliad, but no, they changed important things, good movie, bad Iliad, good cinematics but bad writing

[@micahmills5769]

Battle of the Bastards was one of the biggest let downs in yhe series even without reading yhe books. It came at the end of season 6 meaning the showrunners had already spent two seasons removing nuance, sub plots, and character development from the show. John was already established to be untouchable with some of the thickest plot armor in any series. By killing Stannis and Roose Bolton they lost their chance to have meaningful conflict within the two sides. The build up to the scene was not only predictable in outcome but patronizing to watch because of how one dimensional it was, particularly when compared to major battles in previous seasons. I have to disagree. Good set design and cinematics isn't enough to overshadow the lack of tension, lack of character development, massive plot armor, poor writing, and overall predictability of the episode. Actually one of my biggest disappointments with the series.

[@MavenWalsh]

So Martin asked them a question that had the most obvious answer? Anyone who's ever read a fantasy novel/book series could have told you Jon was a secret Targaryen. That one was obvious 10-15 minutes into the very first episode. Poor mistreated boy with a noble character ends up being the long-lost son of a king. It's been done a million times over.

[@Josuegurrola]

14:14 thats why Barristan actor is a KING and d&dumber are well dumb.

[@murrvvmurr]

Operative word here 4:09 "They said all the right things"

[@justdirt]

Rewatch the Arya and Tywin scenes. They aren't that good. Especially when compared to the nuanced incredibly subtle and borderline horror esque scenes from the books with Roose Bolton. Arya saying she hates girls when she named her wolf after the Warrior Queen Nymeria, after reminding Tywin about Rhaenys and Visenya, and after her whole arc was about defying gender norms. But nope, "girls are stupid" Meanwhile rapist, mass murderer, biggest war criminal in history Tywin Lannister chuckles. What the fuck do you mean? Book Tywin would've hung Arya on the spot with zero hesitation for saying anything of what she said. Charles Dance being a good actor has distracted people from the fact that Arya's story in seasons 2,3, and 4 are heavily cut. Like 70% of her story is cut. I'll die on this hill that those scenes aren't good. Really think about them. What is better, Arya watching this near inhuman soft spoken sociopath plan the Red Wedding in front of her or Tywin and her saying nothing of note. It does nothing for either character, it actually regresses both characters

[@NicoleLNC75]

I think they were in a hurry to move on and didn’t give the last seasons the time they deserved. I also think they wanted to subvert what the audience wanted as if satisfying the audience was a bad thing. In the end, they let down the audience and the cast.

[@ThommyofThenn]

Ian M, if you somehow read this, you played Barristan flawlessly. I think all of my fellow book fans have YOUR performance as their headcanon visualisations. Whenever I read ASOIAF, for the rest of my life I will see you whenever Barristan appears😊 Thank you so much. Thank you for staying so professional even under bad circumstances. We have nothing but respect and pride for you

[@Jeremy-ql1or]

I was thinking about something. Back in 2012, there was that movie Konny 2012. It was basically a documentary about the most evil man in the world. People were pissed about that guy...for about three days and then they just kind of forgot about him. Meanwhile, GoT ended over six years ago and people are still pissed about it.

[@vasileseicaru8740]

well, I think most people realized that they were not great writers as soon as they released the first season that was not covered by the books that were out. But I wouldn't call their downfall satisfying. They had a hand in creating the first 3 seasons as well, where most of the writing was taken care of by the books, but it was their job to select what goes into the show in order to tell a coherent story, and they did a good job. Unless I'm mistaken and that was not their job, but someone else's?

[@NZXT6]

My dude is speaking so slow like he’s reading a telegram letter

[@Phrankster163]

They also wrote one of the best sit-com episodes of all time with the "Flowers for Charlie" episode of "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia", so it isn't that they can't write good stuff, it just has to be in the right genre and tone. I'm surprised that their proposed trilogy deal with Disney wasn't mentioned here though, since it was no doubt one of the main reasons why they wanted to end the series as soon as they could. Being a writer myself (even if it's only on a hobby level), I can see it from their point of view too, that after ten years of having lived and breathed the GoT universe, they needed to try something else and had it been myself, then I probably would have said stop a lot sooner than they did.

[@Josuegurrola]

1:26 the moment they didn't film the battle (ambush) of Robb versus Jaime I realized this was a future sheetpiece. I could remember more holes but I will not make the effort.

[@КристианСтоянов-р3у]

Oh because we see actually battle in the books. All we read then was how afraid is Catelin 😒

[@rvt2239]

I honestly think that somewhere within D&D are good writers but their egos became absolutely out of control. The Arya and Tywin stuff was amazing and there were other things in the first 4 seasons not in the book that I really liked. I think they 1. Felt they were too brilliant and people would like whatever they put out. 2. Thought their audience was stupid and could be distracted by dragons and big battles. 3. Stopped caring once they got their Star Wars deals. It's such a shame that we will never have a complete version of Game of Thrones. The show ended after Season 4 as far as I'm concerned.

[@nezarecdiscipleofthewitnes3823]

Mercy out here catching strays 😭

[@kellygarboden442]

I will never trust them to head up a show again. By slapping a single bandaid on a gushing wound of plot lines and disregarding the cast, crew and fans ruined any credibility they once had. Very sad way to end such a good up to that point show!

[@ozy667]

im sorry does he have a breathing issue? a sentence, pause, sentence.

[@vslee1974]

I started watching during Season Three. I only needed 5 minutes of watching Dany to realize the male writers were going build her up ALL the WAY, then tear her down at the very end in a completely illogical and nonsensical narrative. I knew 5 years before it happened. If you want to see the ultimate critique of men writing for women heros, watch the last episode of She-Hulk. For decades, She-Hulk is the only comic book character who is SELF-AWARE. She knows she is a comic book character. At the end of the series, when the writers use a cliche ending with her powerless and needing to be rescued. She-Hulk stops the show, climbs out of the frame, hunts down the Marvel writers at Disney, and forces changes in her narrative with KEVIN. Don't get me started on that Jem and the Holograms movie.

[@TheTam0613]

I'm just finding your channel. I'm so glad to hear more criticism against D&D. The last few seasons were not his, but season 8 was a NIGHTMARE!

[@Timbermannetje]

I’ll just rewatch GoT 1-6 and imagine the rest myself.

[@pplr1]

That is a sane approach.

[@Timbermannetje]

@@pplr1 so far it still awesome 👏🏻 The characters are so good in this show! Battles are bad-ass, comedy, tension, unexpected things, beauty, GOT had it all!

[@dcworld4349]

Its worse when House of the Dragon has proved they could have easily done it without them. I get they were tired of being away from their family for the majority of a year. Though if you are not up for it I don't really understand why they were so eager in wanting to work on a TV show to begin with. It is kind of the bargin you make in doing a show. This is the rare occasion where a show needed a Walking dead length run to tell the complete story. If they had told HBO to look for replacements for them during season 3 and that season 4 would be their last. They would have been fondly remembered as the guys who got the ball rolling and gave us some of the best TV ever.

[@akwasiampofo5565]

I understand it can be hard to write a show but to bomb it as badly as they did??…that takes extra effort

[@movieloverfan18]

They got it because no one seriously thought these books could be adapted. They approached George and convinced him it could and then they convinced HBO that they could do it cheaply. Seson 2 had more money and a big battle ending. Well they had enough money to show a battle, but they had to do it at night with a bunch of smoke to make it look bigger. Tywin’s big cavalry charge for the Battle of the Blackwater only had 12 horses. It got critical acclaim and all of the awards. So after season 2 a bunch of people got the DVDs and caught up on the series. Seson 3 had big audiences and the show passed Sopranos numbers for HBO.

[@anathardayaldar]

So THAT's why the ThreeBodyProblem show didn't feel compelling like the premise should have been. Poor author didn't do their homework when choosing the script writer.

[@fatalshore5068]

The author deserves every bit of what they got then. If they are s Sci fi author and don't know what dumb and dumber did to got them they deserve their shit story.

[@kapellmeisterr]

7:50 they also cut Sansa's friend, that would later be passed as Arya and sent to the Boltons.

[@hankogle6858]

I can’t even rewatch the good seasons because I know how terrible it is towards the end

[@korionterivers9995]

They followed GRR’s blueprint which was great. But when it was time for them to continue their work without his script they showed how inept they were. 🤦🏾‍♂️

[@jonathanorozco3244]

I see this is a smaller channel so I respect going out there and making content but one piece of advice to help future videos: Even if it takes multiple takes to get the complete sentence read in one go, take the time to do that. It will massively improve the watchability of the videos. The scripting is there already as well as your editing and visual presentation style will get you far but listening........to someone.........who only talks...........in two or..........three words...........at a time........... kills the video flow. Best of luck on future content.

[@Alex-mn1fb]

Like, I know I should care about them on a human level, its gotta be gutwrenching to fly so high and then be brought so low and have your entire career ruined, but honestly, I still hate them with all the fire of the incinnerated Kings Landing for f-ing up absolutely every characters story arc in those last two seasons.

[@bbl2019]

GoT was good only when it had the source material for the first four seasons. After it outpaced the book plot, they were lost. Couldn’t do anything without GRR Martin

[@leviathan_is_me]

I just head Canon that Bran wargged everyone during the vote to make himself king and that he was the true villain all along who in the end, won. Night King was there to keep balance and Bran won. It was Star Wars from the dark sides perspective. We basically saw Palpatine win... from a different point of view.

[@scepteredisle]

Season 5 and 6 were pretty bad, 7 and 8 worse.

[@jtrinipapa]

they should reso the show in animated format after winds comes out

[@user-rv8ye3px5h]

Thay may be never.

[@synthamvs7624]

“Lost it all” “downfall” what are you talking about they are the writers for a huge and successful show at this very moment

[@mismismism]

D&D and George himself, botched GoT so badly it's unbelievable because D&D definitely bought into their own hype and threw away the chance to make something legendary, but George is also to blame for not writing the books, all these years after and he's still making excuses instead of just ripping the bandaid off and saying he's not gonna finish the series. All 3 of them felt like they think they don't need to care anymore. It's frustrating.

[@failedGraphics]

Imagine calling someone illiterate when you can barely speak properly.

[@jefeking2117]

Hearing Kevin hart name drop the characters while complaining about the ending gives me great relief!

[@j.savage1228]

I'd argue that D & D ARE talented writers. Season 1-4 were the best television I've ever watched. That takes immense talent even being an adaptation of GRRM's books.

[@DrFrankNStein-sf2ww]

With a source material like these novels they had an easy start. But let's face it if the source material is strong, clever and powerful even Zack Snyder was able to make at least one good movie. Watchmen.

[@zonefreakman]

I suggest people to just read the novels and forget about the show.

[@guneytopal7076]

GoT has left such a sour taste for most people so much so that they've don't even enjoy it and a lot of people I've spoken to has erased it from their minds as if GoT didn't happen. Now at the time I blamed Dan and David the most and they do deserve the criticism but the main culprit is George Martin. He either fell out of love with his book or noticed the story became too complicated and can't be wrapped up in a coherent and appealing way. Both could also be true but either way his creation is not a masterpiece nor will it ever be in that discussion as long as its incomplete. Dan and David literally had to make up shit as they went on from S6 onwards.

[@plaguebane03]

they got greedy as was stated and saw bigger fish on the horizon (star wars) and wanted to jump ship asap, so they threw it all in the fire........and got themselves burned ironically.

[@seancushnie974]

“Season 2 was like season 1 but if it was season 2” ?!?! And who gave you authority to critique someone’s writing. Absurd

[@bernard6255]

At the time d&b met w/ grrm, the books had a very large on-line fan presence w/ several large forums for the fandom. The fan theory abt jon snow had long been the MOST widely discussed and accepted speculation by the fandom, and could not have been overlooked by d&b if they had done ANY online research of the book series.

[@samr8603]

I think the Prisoner TV Series beats GOT for worse unexpected ending ever.

[@lycanwhisper2724]

If these studios can't or won't make accurate stories that are CANNON to the book. Please don't fkn bother studios.

[@ayiza8511]

Tyrions trail is my abslute favorite scene. his speech still gives me chills

[@7PlayingWithFire7]

Everyone knew who jon's mother was if they had ever looked at a fan forum, or someone who was especially astute. First time readers have noticed it too. Needed deeper questions about themes and character

[@thomashazlewood4658]

You nailed it in recognizing that season 5 was when the scripts began failing. My wife and I talked after we saw it and said something is off about this season. We stopped watching after season 6.

[@wg4154]

Can you imagine if Drogon tries to burn jon, and he just laughs, and his eyes turn to ice

[@BorniRich]

I wanted to see the three body problem so bad too but once I heard it was them I was instantly out