The Science of Just Stop Oil Protests | Sci Guys Podcast

Do you care about the climate? How do you feel about Just Stop Oil? This week we're discussing the facts around climate change & how extreme protests affect public opinion.
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References & Further Reading
Just Stop Oil
juststopoil.org/faqs/
Public Order & Protest Laws
www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...
Environmental Impacts of Fossil Fuels
www.un.org/en/climatechange/s...
www.nrdc.org/stories/fossil-f...
www.worldwildlife.org/threats...
Protests
theconversation.com/just-stop...
theconversation.com/climate-c...
brookes.cloud.panopto.eu/Pano...
journals.sagepub.com/doi/full...
www.bbc.com/future/article/20...
www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-...

[@SciGuys]

Do you agree with Just Stop Oil's protests?

[@bunjection]

not at all! they do more harm to good causes, their way is not the way to change for the better

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

Actually no, because they look a lot like the protests staged by fossil fuel companies to make climate activists look bad. I'm saying this as an environmentalist and anarcho-communist. They remind me a lot of PETA, where the message is lost because the method of protest has nothing to do with the cause.

[@SciGuys]

@bunjection This is untrue? We discuss this in the episode. They don’t do harm to good causes.

[@SciGuys]

@FrozenWolf150 How is the message of Just Stop Oil lost when their message is literally their name?

[@yesimellie]

Agree in principle but I do think there should be some reasonable limits on protests. E.g. if a road is blocked then people should be able to turn around and find another route to their destination even if that takes significantly more time. (perhaps warning triangles or similar mechanisms could be used to let people know they should turn around before they are blocked in by other drivers) Same for trains (even if it means taking a bus instead) If property damage has to be done can it be restricted to items that are replaceable e.g. someone can get a new car but replacing art that only has a single copy isn''t really feasible. (I know the one talked about had a plexiglass cover over it or something like that) And well if said restrictions make it so protests aren't talked about then it would prove my idea of reasonable restrictions aren't reasonable and shouldn't be in place.

[@planetaryg0]

i'm actually shocked every time i see that there rn't thousands of likes/comments lol, this is the most underrated podcast fr😤🙏

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

honestly most people don't like to learn they like there opinion more... honestly this is a place for actually critically thinking and I'm sorry to say that's the minority lol

[@planetaryg0]

@@alexwhitelaw2003 i also think a lot of ppl r scared to learn, they just immediately dismiss the thought of it

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

@@planetaryg0 Its congnative disonece. research this term and watch how so much of humans floored behaviour caused by it

[@corano500]

I've had a van drive into me at a protest before and I jumped out of the road at the last second, so I'm well aware that people get super angry at protesters, but don't believe that it makes them hate the cause in general. I support Just Stop Oil and similar protests, because nothing else gives me hope that we can effectively make the changes needed

[@Idkpleasejustletmechangeit]

I do think that some types protests can make people hate the cause. People aren't rational. If someone does something they don't like in the name of some cause, then many will start to dislike the cause(especially with the addition of propaganda). Kind of like how many people hate veganism in general because of trolls like ThatVeganTeacher. Most of the time when I hear people talk about climate change(in my country) it's negative(if it starts of positive, then most of the time someone starts to say shit like "but these idiots glue themselves to the street and throw food at random things" and then the conversation devolves. Often someone ends up stating that they don't think climate change is real or a problem).

[@cat-cq2xi]

So TRUE. Hello from New Zealand guys. My country had simultaneously suffered multiple floods whilst a drought! In the SUMMER! Airports under water in the north whilst the south was struggling to grow enough crops to feed the sheep. Climate change is absolutely NOT GOOD! More needs done. Also love the pod guys highlight of my week

[@zalletu]

great episode! 😊

[@pbgv399]

I had this pod playing while my partner and i fell asleep - my "dingalingling" along with the ad bell cracked my partner up (Not this episode but it happened this week so i thought id share it here)

[@thewhiterabbitsos]

Making something illegal rarely stopped it from happening.

[@Travelbyailsa]

The thing that really annoys me when people say “well they let ambulances through” is that if you create a enough of a back up then the ambulance would still have been slowed down which as you say could have killed people. The other protests are just as effective as those where people are blocking traffic so why don’t they just focus on those type of protests not those which could potentially kill someone

[@ntrintva5177]

Love this podcast!

[@Em-jc7ct]

I feel protests need to clearly help people take action. JSO definitely sparks conversation but I think the action is lacking. Such as ease of signing a petition. Maybe there website has stuff like this, idk, but i dont think many people think to look for the website for a protest. There needs to be a call for action rather than saying "this thing is bad, talk about it".

[@SciGuys]

What is a petition going to do, exactly?

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

I feel that targeting a Van Gogh painting undermined the message of the protest. If you know anything about art history, Van Gogh was an environmentalist and quasi-socialist in his own time. Mind you, I'm not saying throwing soup can't be an effective method of protest. Why not throw the soup at a fossil fuel exec directly?

[@SciGuys]

How does that undermine the message? If anything, it supports the point. Do you think environmentalist Van Gogh would care more about his paintings or the planet? We literally discussed why targeting a “fossil fuel exec” isn’t a meaningful alternative…

[@FrozEnbyWolf150]

@SciGuys It creates a false dilemma. Most of the debate I've heard over this demonstration pits caring about art vs. caring about the environment, which is not a constructive debate. Had this involved taking away the ill-gotten gains of a fossil fuel company, such as by vandalizing or removing their property, it would be a different story.

[@SciGuys]

The false dilemma isn’t created by the protest itself; it’s created by people being precious. Precious about a painting which survived the protest unharmed, I might add. The purpose of souping the painting is to get media attention & shift the conversation to JSO’s demands. Two people alone cannot feasibly take away the “ill-gotten gains of a fossil fuel company” at the scale required to: 1. Garner the same media attention, and 2. Have any effect on the decisions of said fossil fuel company. Unfortunately, we’re well past the point where we can stick to protests that allow you to remain comfortable.

[@Em-jc7ct]

​@@FrozEnbyWolf150 I did agree with you before before this podcast but upon reflection I've realised that when there has been protests directly against a person or a factory, I only see/hear of it once and it makes me feel good. It has never inspired me to take action or talk about it beacuse its simply activists being activists. They are doing there job and I'm doing mine. It's never grabbed my attention to act or look into it. But ive seen much more coverage over a blocked road which has sparked more conversation. Which oftern leaves people feeling unsure on how they feel about the protest method but learn more and have conversation about the issue. It seems logical to target the factories and owners of oil, however that doesn't stop them. People being aware and slowly taking action puts on pressure. I do think protests need to do more on not just getting peoples attention but getting them to act, sign a petition, send an email, whatever. Spark action

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

money means more then life in this world. honestly the mass of people are split arguing why they should hate each other and the top 1% are evil laughing while they make us addicted to anything and everythink to kill us all internal (ill health) and externally (envormentally)

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

i just got a t cuz i can take tge pressure of being cool

[@alexwhitelaw2003]

i love you guys

[@NimeniAltu.]

Full video?

[@Ryan-tp6nd]

I think it's a bit disappointing that you have completely failed to research the strategy of JSO. There's so much to criticise from a left perspective, through their cult-like ideology and belief that the only thing that matters is publicity and recruiting new people, rather than actually tackling climate change (see how they stopped blockading oil refineries because not enough publicity). Their manipulative guilt narratives and burning through hundreds of activists seriously weakens the environmental movement in this country. With that all said, completely agree that the right wing critiques of them are nonsense

[@SciGuys]

Ultimately the goal of this episode was more “Are these protests effective”, as that was something I knew there was data on.

[@chestermightbeafrog]

I'm pretty sure the main reason for not targeting refineries at the moment is because the companies that run them bought injunctions that make it illegal to protest near on on those sites with stupidly strict punishments. Yes, the delayed and minor news coverage was also a decision factor, but it's kind of hard to protest if any time you were to try you could be locked up for 2 years because some corporate types can just purchase a pass to restrict peoples right to protest.

[@stephanie5293]

What is the climate change book you read and talked about on the podcast

[@SciGuys]

You’ll have to listen to the podcast to find out😉 (I don’t remember)

[@PsyopAgentProvocateur]

From what I’ve seen, people who would have supported JSO, are now firmly against JSO, and to a degree see it as a 2 side argument…. If you hate JSO, then you support the oil industry as a childish reaction. I have disengaged from the Oil industry argument, because I detest JSO and their misplaced bullsh*t.

[@SciGuys]

You’re only able to disengage from the “oil industry argument” because you’re living in a word that makes it possible to do so, despite the serious ramifications of the oil industry. Which is why Just Stop Oil’s protests are so disruptive; it makes it pretty bloody difficult to ignore.

[@seantyson6021]

comment

[@real_surreal_sir]

I agree with their sentiment, but their tactics are not just ineffective but actively counterproductive. And I'm sorry but it's incredibly naive to think that stuff like Stop oil protests as they've ben done so far WONT make a meaningful number of people be more skeptical of necessary climate action or anti climate change activism in general... If thats the assumption or floor one is coming in with, frankly thats how you get cases like people honestly surprised and exasperated about something like heavy media response/focus on crude tactics of an activist organization like this over underlying issue thats actually being protested against. That kind of removal from reality of activism effectiveness vs intent directly affects in turn how disruptive tactics in climate activism are generated accordingly... Stop oil is an extreme showcase I guess, since to think stiff like throwing soup on wprld most famous painting and such was ever gonna 'inspire meaningful discussion about the issues that inspired the act' is a sign one probably shouldn't be doing radical activism kn the first place, for the sake of their cause. The thread is so lost by that point....