The Science of Serial Killers (with

In the spirit of the season our patrons voted in serial killers as the final topic for this year... So strap in as we dip our toes into true crime & chat about the science of killers, the myths surrounding them, and the psychology of their biggest fans...
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References & Further Reading
thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewconte...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17143...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32284...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16838...
thekeep.eiu.edu/cgi/viewconte...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17143...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...
blog.oup.com/2021/04/what-can...
docs.google.com/document/d/e/...
www.britannica.com/topic/seri...
www.discovermagazine.com/the-...
www.nhs.uk/mental-health/cond....
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term...
thehighcourt.co/serial-killer....
www.bbc.com/future/article/20...
Follow the SCI GUYS
@notcorry / @lukecutforth

[@SciGuys]

Have you ever killed someone? Be honest...

[@fenixfox4366]

Many kett in mass effect (game)

[@crazycatlover1885]

No, at least I'm pretty sure I haven't.

[@blackmarya]

Only with kindness 🙃

[@CeleryMae]

Only with kindness 💖

[@Luketherat]

No 😂

[@pegasus4538]

the thing that is the absolute worst about the Dhamer series is nobody in any of the victims families were notified or consulted with about the series being made. they earned $0 from the series even though it used actual court footage from the trials and profited off the victims. ANOTHER THING: the series is NOT about the victims. if netflix was going to make a series about a serial killer it should not focus on sensationalising their actions and making the viewers feel empathy for them. it should focus on the victims and their life and pay them genuine respect.

[@AmyFutch]

Growing up I, and most of the other girls I knew, heard stories about how dangerous the world is ALL the time, and all the horrible things that could happen to us if we weren't being careful. I wonder if there's a correlation with this and women who really enjoy listening to serial killer podcast. I don't know if it's something like becoming desensitized to the idea of it at a young age, or if it's more like confirmation bias that our mothers were right? It would definitely be an interesting topic.

[@jessice293]

Goodness this is incredibly insightful! There could be some correlation here.. because it does seem to be mostly women who are obsessed with true crime.

[@KierraHastie]

It sounds like thetes definitly a correlation cant really think of what though

[@Pangui008]

I'm sorry, but I've listened to about 100 episodes, and I still hear "quick fart quiz" every time 😅. I remember I watched an interview to a person diagnosed with ASPD, and he said something like "there is no need to _feel_ bad when harming other people in order to not do it. Knowing you cause harm is enough to avoid doing that"

[@0mack0]

Noah makes the podcast wayyy better 😭🫶

[@conneriswright]

That’s kinda of a dig at corry and the podcast ngl. He’s a good addition but saying he makes it “wayyyy better” is kind of backhanded

[@zsuzsisz9263]

Great podcast, great always. But gotta love the little comments like 9:19 and 58:55

[@conlon4332]

@@conneriswright I guess you could read it like that. Saying that the podcast is very much better with Noah is a relative statement, so I don't think it really says much about the baseline. It could be amazing without him and even way more amazing with him, or it could be ok without him and a really fun time with him, or it could be unbearable without him and watchable with him. Just because it's "wayyy better" with him doesn't actually tell us this person's perceived value the podcast has with or without him, just that one is much better than the other.

[@sebris4272]

as a patron, i was a bit put-off seeing this topic had so many votes, but I knew you guys would approach it appropriately and was hoping you’d touch on the true crime topic in the way that you did. I’ve met way too many people who use their interest in true crime as some kind of badass flex, like they’re trying to relate to me because I lean into alternative aesthetics?? my guys there is nothing punk about having an obsession with serial killers

[@brenna5200]

I feel like this turned more into an episode of the science of true crime content rather than the science of serial killers, but I’m not complaining. It’s a super necessary topic that I think most people are afraid to talk about - the real consequences of true crime content as entertainment and why and how people interact with it. Great episode

[@conlon4332]

I was never into True Crime in the past, and I don't want to be, but recently I've found myself watching videos about child abuse cases - from murder to kidnapping to sexual abuse. I'm not really sure why, either...

[@christywillis1707]

Thank you so so much for making this episode and for having Noah on. I didn't know that his cousin was murdered, and unfortunately that is something we have in common. :( I am always really disturbed by true crime as a genre and specifically hate the way people talk about the murders as if it was their favorite sport and the killers are the athletes. I'm so sorry for the pain that Noah and his family went through and still continue to go through - appreciate the podcast!

[@phiwalker9925]

30:00 not only is altruism rewarding in and of itself, I have also experienced it as infectious. I often note that after giving a beggar money, people walking behind me will do as well, while I rarely see those ahead do so. Another example is altruistic friendliness, for example letting someone go first in the queue for the cashier, begets the same. I was in line at the grocery store recently, and I helped someone simply by picking up something they had dropped, and giving it back to them. They then let someone else go first who had only a few items, who then gave his change to the homeless man outside, and the cashier smiled and greeted me and the people in front of me with a genuine smile and everyone was just in a good mood suddenly and everyone was being nice and helping each other out. I feel like that happens a lot when its kicked off by one kind act. Strange comment under a episode about serial killers but here we are

[@conlon4332]

1:04:39 Because I'm really enjoying watching episodes with Noah in and I'm running out of them haha! (I really think Noah adds so much to Sci Guys and I especially enjoy the episodes he's in.)

[@Grass-seedling]

Petition to make Noah a permanent member of the SciGuys. 👇

[@lukasyn666]

Obviously I can only speak on my experience with true crime and not everyone else’s, but for me I’ve always had not really a fascination but curious mind as to how people can do the things they do to each other. Things such as hearing the upbringing of a terrorist or serial killer all the way up to how they orchestrated their crimes has always been a point of interest for me, so much so I actually debated going to college for criminal psychology. For me it’s the how they were able to commit such acts without caring, the why they felt the need to do the things they did. I will say some true crime KZbinrs have been helpful on that front because some of them do provide information as to the criminal’s upbringing and how that may have influenced choosing the communities of people they would later go on to target. That’s not to say true crime podcasts and videos are amazing or morally sound, it’s just one point that has helped me paint a picture of how people were able to do what they do. Like with the link of a lot of serial killers being from abusive households or having brain injuries in their childhood. For me, it’s the is it nature or nurture? The how and why they went through with their acts, be it serial killers, terrorists, genocides, etc.

[@jessice293]

True crime is highly fascinating to me. And I follow some cases all the way through to sentencing. I almost went to uni for forensics, I am just highly scientifically inclined and just have a very black/white view of the world and want to see justice for the victims. The entire process just fascinates me. However I do understand the true crime genre has become very sensationalised.

[@lukasyn666]

@@jessice293 it’s without a doubt become very sensationalized and I also think some people are involved in it for nefarious purposes, but I can also acknowledge some information presented is actually good for a number of reasons. The main problem are the people who commentate on certain cases in which the families of the victims don’t want that to happen or they aren’t pleased with how the case was presented yet the commentator doesn’t take down the podcast or video out of basic respect. Like with the Dahmer show. 1, it’s not necessary as theres countless forms of information on him and his crimes and 2, the victims families either didn’t agree to it being made or didn’t like the result of how it turned out as far as I’ve heard. Then of course there’s people who decide to romanticize these killers within the true crime community and that’s just disrespectful and wrong in several ways. Personally I think it’s ok to have an interest in this sort of thing since obviously enough people do to the point we have a career field involving it, but the romanticizing or otherwise disrespecting the victims families or the victims themselves isn’t ok and shouldn’t even be part of it.

[@beththebubbly69]

i survived eugenics pin badges has me crying lmaooo anyway as yall said, people who are obsessed w serial killers make me SOOOO uncomfortable it's like... you have no awareness or care about the victims and it's just so awful

[@traxx75]

Tbh I actually really like the interrogation analysis True Crime videos like JCS...the methods the detectives use to get confessions are cool.

[@conlon4332]

I'm still traumatised by the time I put some wood in the fire and didn't realise it had a woodlouse on it and I watched it burn to death.

[@sad_doggo2504]

Throughout most of human history, humans have worshipped gods of war and death. I can't help but wonder if the veneration of serial killers is filling some void.

[@angrychu]

Found your podcast 2 days ago and im hooked! Love the chemistry you guys have and how informative each video is

[@randimorris8307]

I also had a cousin who was brutally murdered when I was very young. My family very lucky that this was in 2004 and my city tries to avoid reporting crimes.

[@Rising_Pho3nix_23]

13 days ago, a group of scientists used lasers and a diamond sphere to generate more energy output than the energy they put into the system. The US Dept of Energy hosted a panel to discuss the experiment and results. It would be absolutely amazing to have a video on that. The scientists literally created free energy, breaking laws of physics. Edit: I don't know about anyone else but the reason I'm into the serial killer thing is self protection as a trans person living in a society where we get targeted frequently. Instead, what I got was an understanding that people like watching messed up TV shows. Do I feel any safer? Do I feel any more educated? Do I have more understanding about who's targeting me? Nope.

[@wirradaisy]

Whenever Noah is referred to as the fifth Sci Guy it makes me laugh; everytime without fail 😂

[@dovestone_]

Who is the fourth sci guy?

[@jaykay030]

Personally I mostly watch true crime look for patterns between what happened to the murderer pre killings and their kind of "style" of taking people's lives. I'm very much pattern seeking and I think growing up part of me wanted to make sure I didn't fall into any of the patterns. Due to some mental health issues I've been very paranoid of growing up to be a racist, pedophile, murderer, etc. That would also explain why I rarely ever watch true crime anymore because I understand what intrusive thoughts are now, so I'm not constantly worried anymore because I randomly had a bad thought I didn't want to think. I never was obsessed with it either, I always took breaks and never thought the killers were cool, they striked me as deeply insecure which makes sense considering what you've said about this power being what appeals to a lot of killers. Anyway, I appreciate that you made me think about why I enjoy the occasional true crime video and to check if I care about the victims at all and what might influence that both on my and the content creator's end. Props to Noah for speaking about his cousin, it really helped to reach me emotionally especially since I've been aware of his existence for a couple of years now.

[@pegasus4538]

if you are interested in true crime and you want someone that gives back to the victims families and pays huge amounts of respect to the victim I recommend Kendall Rae. She teams up with really helpful businesses and charities working towards justice for victims. As well as this she also has the victims families and friends come onto her channel and talk about the events. (not just murder also robbery, fraud and abusive relationships etc). Huge huge fan of her. But i also totally agree that if you aren't going to talk about true crime in a way that is thoughtful towards victims or use true crime for clout and views then you absolutely should refrain from doing so as it only causes more trauma.

[@ems4238]

I don’t know if this is explained in an earlier episode but where did Jamp go? 🙁 he hasn’t been in the past couple of podcasts and it’s like his vanished

[@miroh8]

Jamp left the podcast a few months ago, you can see the announcement in the community tab on the Sci Guys channel

[@BiblicallyAccurateHoodie]

Sameeee

[@avriiile]

uhm…corry….u okay???????

[@MischievousBastard]

There's a murderporn channel on telly and my mum got really into it. Now my mum, she's a retired counsellor, she's qualified in psychology, et cetera, and she had it in her head that she was binging these shows from academic curiosity. She would roll her eyes when I called it murderporn. One day she was watching one of these shows and the narrator was frankly indecent. I said to her "this is gross, can we not?" She said "it's just..." and I cut in "Mum, can you not hear the narrator? He sounds like Nigella when she carries on like she's fucking the food!" She got way more discerning with the documentaries after that, and it felt like progress.

[@kalekoi]

19:05 i feel like the obvious answer here is a cop

[@SciGuys]

Goddamn it

[@ritadpt]

Yup, there was a serial killer in my region in the 2000s (which is an unusually recent time for something that has always been extremely rare and is even rarer nowadays) - he was a retired cop.

[@Noarobyn93]

I think it makes sense that people are convinced that serial killers are charmjng and good looking because that is an attempt to explain why skmekne could lure their victims into trusting them or how thay could get away with so many murders, without taking into consideration the effects of patriarchy, racism or other ways that might advantage such a killer

[@conlon4332]

9:52 You could probably watch them in person!

[@Luketherat]

I never even thought about the difference between serial killers and mass murderers before

[@christinewarden3450]

You should totally make a short about the stuff around 44:33

[@zsuzsisz9263]

9:19 kills me every time😂 Also 58:55 It's hard to do that properly when you're doing a brand deal😂

[@johnterrencesmith2148]

I object to equating low empathy to evil behavior. Someone can have low empathy but still make an effort to be good. II also think it's important to distinguish between empathy (being able to understand the emotions of others), sympathy (feeling what you perceive what other people are feeling) and compassion (a desire to care for the emotional wellbeing of others).

[@dovestone_]

I used to watch a lot of true crime when I was v depressed and it just made me more depressed

[@fuchsadler]

In Video games and my writing, yes. I actually do that quite a lot in my writing

[@jessilovely]

Around 40:00 Luke is talking about the paradox of how it benefits the genes to be altruistic while also eliminating those least like you. Is it not [also] that those with most differing genes create better immunity etc so it would be counterintuitive to eliminate someone with who you could mate and strengthen your gene pool? Idk, maybe it’s a mix of everything.

[@fozziebean]

It makes me wonder what would happen in a very unethical human experiment where researchers tried to find out if people were more likely to mate with a person who looked a lot like a family member or like someone with very very different genes. How racist does a racist have to be before they choose inbreeding over the better option? 😆 P.S. Being interested in unethical experiments that teach us about human psychology makes me about as guilty as true crime fans. It's my morbid curiosity that sometimes gets the better of me.

[@jessilovely]

@@fozziebean I think there would be fear of the unknown and we would breed with those that look most like us, OR fetishise and hold hostage for sexual activities (like Asian female fetishes, black men, etc) those that are least like the more powerful group. But this is just from looking at our history and I reckon we would be alright with each other if from the beginning we all lived together and were used to differences (instead of stumbling upon each other like the colonisers, etc). Digital age is now allowing new generations to be exposed to [almost] all types of people and you can see more mixing and appreciation of divergence from the norm. In a morbid human experiment I think the choice would depend on whether the human is used to diversity or encounter a diverse person. It would also depend on beliefs/religions they develop. Lmao I’m the same; I don’t think an interest in human psychology even by imagining unethical situations makes you morbid at all - it’s historically how we’ve discovered how monstrous we can be unfortunately 😬 so it’s natural to wonder “extreme” situations

[@chuni47]

Haven't watch this video yet but I really hope it doesn't just drag people with ASPD and psychopathy through the mud as they're already extremely stigmatized which stops people from getting the help they need

[@miroh8]

I can't say if everything they talked about was accurate because I don't have ASPD, but they do say that there shouldn't be an association between serial killers and ASPD/psychopathy and that psychopathy isn't really a diagnosable thing or a good term to use for people. I think they should do an entire episode on ASPD and the stigma behind it because they only briefly discuss it here

[@chuni47]

@@miroh8 what about the PCL-R test? Why would that exist if psychopathy wasn't clinicly diagnoseable I know that sociopath is just a slang term for a person with ASPD so maybe they got those two mixed. I will say I'm not an expert I noticed as someone with multiple family members who falls into cluster B

[@miroh8]

@@chuni47 Honestly I don't know, I'm not very educated on the subject either, just wanted to say that it didn't seem to me like they were dragging people with ASPD /psychopathy through the mud. I've heard mixed things about the term psychopath and idk what's true and what isn't

[@chuni47]

@@miroh8 that's good. There's a lotta false information out there so of course us as non-experts are bound to get things wrong like that people under 18 can have ASPD and such

[@jessilovely]

@@chuni47 I reckon just like ADHD, it’s a collection of symptoms and like Cory said, “psychopathy” is more of a legal term.

[@klarasegers6747]

I remember seeing a documentary of sorts about people with lower levels of empathy. It's a long time ago and I was quite young so I don't remember a lot. But there was an example given as to why people with lower levels of empathy are beneficial when looking at evolution as a whole. The scenario they gave was this: a group of people are hiding and they have to stay as quiet as possible to avoid getting killed. Now one of the people in that group is a baby that starts crying and they can't get the baby to quiet down. A person with lower levels of empathy will probably find it easier to kill the baby for the survival of the group, where the other people wouldn't be able to bring themselves to do that and as a consequence would condem the whole group to die. So this could be an explanation... Now again, this was quite a long time ago and I might be completely wrong here. So please take this with a grain of salt maybe or just look it up some more yourself if you're interested.

[@jaybirdvlogs7279]

What’s happened to Jamp? :( feel like i haven’t seen him on here in ages

[@cez_is_typing]

He left the podcast a couple months back!

[@kayleigh1991]

I haven’t listened in a while. What happened to Jamp?

[@charliebuxton5020]

With the homo man vs same origin I just looked it up, they’re right - Latin = man - Greek = same

[@conlon4332]

1:03:38

[@jenniferlenfestey5335]

"This is the Zodiac speaking," that was creepy AF!

[@charliebuxton5020]

Minecraft yea

[@Em-jc7ct]

I used to watch true crime videos a lot. A recomended video popped up titled something like "true crime is a bad genre". I avoided it but eventually watched it and slowly realised i need to be mindful on the content i watch and questioned myself. I unsubbed from true crime youtubers and careful on tv/films now

[@CharliesTreats16]

No

[@neverlives]

I have not killed man

[@IKronosI]

An interesting fact, a lot of times people refer to Serial Killers as psychopaths. However, Serial Killers are more correlated to other mental illnesses as such as Schizophrenia than indeed the typical personality disorders related to the term "psychopath". Which makes it quite incorrect to call serial killers psychopaths.

[@miroh8]

It's important to remember that Schizophrenic people are more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators, and significantly more susceptible to violence and abuse than the average person. There's a lot of harmful stigma around Schizophrenia and mental illness in general, so I just think it's important to be careful when talking about correlation between violent crime and mental illness

[@IKronosI]

@Ve Chêne all mental illnesses have stigmas related to them. I only pointed out a data correlation that exists.

[@steelydanlover1972]

What data are you referring to? I've never seen anything to lead me to believe that serial killers are more likely to suffer from schizophrenia. Everything I've seen and read seems to demonstrate that the vast majority of serial killers are either psychopathic or something approximating psychopathic, and that only a tiny minority of serial killers have paranoid schizophrenia.

[@IKronosI]

@@steelydanlover1972 What I wrote was that serial murder crimes are more correlated to other mental illness than to psychopathy (which is not even a clinical diagnosis). I gave an example of Schizophrenia, since this disorder is present in correlations of many crimes, including murder. To be more specific, using a study (Clare S. Allely, Helen Minnis, Lucy Thompson, Philip Wilson, Christopher Gillberg,. Neurodevelopmental and psychosocial risk factors in serial killers and mass murderers, 2014) that was a literature review, the most correlated factors in serial murders were neurodevelopment disorders (as Autism), head injury and psychosocial stresses (such as psychological trauma). The two disorders commonly connect to the term "psychopathy" would be the Antisocial and the Borderline Personality Disorder.

[@dognerd7280]

What is with the game show host personna?

[@AnimilesYT]

12:23 a med student or a mad student?