The Science of Witchcraft | Sci Guys Podcast #98

Magic might actually be real according to science... No really!
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REFERENCES
What are Witchcraft & Wicca
www.britannica.com/topic/Wicca
www.britannica.com/topic/witc...
www.history.com/topics/religi...
www.livescience.com/amp/39119...
www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religio...
wiccaliving.com/beginners-gui...
www.vice.com/en/article/a38ek...
www.theguardian.com/theguardi...
Wicca/Witchcraft & Science
www.independent.co.uk/indepen...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
Optimism Bias & Attention Bias
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
thedecisionlab.com/biases/opt...
web.archive.org/web/201111250...
www.emerald.com/insight/conte...
www.crossingdialogues.com/Ms-A...
www.sciencedirect.com/science...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28780...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:eae...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...
thedecisionlab.com/biases/att...
Placebo Effect
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24909...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26272...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/arti...

[@ChuckMeIntoHell]

I was a Wiccan for over a decade and I would always describe magic as "prayer with props."

[@heatherk569]

I've always said this!!!

[@deafdude9456]

Watch Corry deconstruct the foundation of organized religion for 1 hour and 23 minutes hahahahaha

[@kaylafoxx41]

I remember praying so often, nearly every night, for god to make me physically female so I could feel okay. I grew up mormon. I'd like to think that it wasn't the only thing that broke me free of religion, but it had to have played a part.

[@forforever4980]

I hope your wishes came true. I grew up mormon too. I can only imagine what your family thinks. I hope you feel better now. Have a wonderful day or night 😊

[@David-oy6ck]

If society accepted you fully as a feminine male, would you still desire to be female?

[@rayne333]

okay the way you guys were talking about the book of shadows & especially luke’s reaction cracked me up 😂 this is a common misconception, but there is no one set “book of shadows” for all witches or wiccans to abide by. Corry is right in that each wiccan makes their own book of shadows, but these are spells that are personal to them. These would be spells written by the individual practitioner or one that they were given permission to use by another, usually a member of their coven. A long time practitioner may have several different texts that make up their book of shadows. There are many spell books available for purchase from commercial publishers. These cannot be a book of shadows however, since a book of shadows is meant to be kept secret, thus the name. You might share a spell with a coven member or the odd fellow practitioner, but overall it is a very private thing almost like a diary. Also a book of shadows can contain more than just spells, it more like a compendium of knowledge around the craft. Hope that helped clear things up! edit: just wanted to be clear that i think corry did a great job of explaining things overall & really appreciate the sensitivity with which he treated this topic that most people treat as a joke because they don’t understand

[@rodriguezmystic]

In Traditional initiatory Wicca (ie Gardnerian and Alexandrian tradition, where all of this came from) the Book of Shadows IS a set document that is passed to every single person who is initiated into the Craft. This is still the case in these traditions today. You can add your own material to it over the years (often kept separately) but it is important that the original document is kept in tact and is actually copied out by hand word for word. It is core material every initiate should have. Non-initiatory Wiccans (who came later) and use the terminology of Wicca to describe what they do, use the term Book of Shadows for what would more aptly just be referred to as a personal grimoire.

[@Mariam-670]

as a non wiccan witch, i absolutely loved and thoroughly enjoyed this episode!! i think harmony nice would be a great person to have on to talk about wicca. also luke mentioned doing an episode about the science of astrology, i think that’s a great topic.

[@warble8753]

To me, witchcraft is all about symbols. The power that we give to them can be harnessed and 'controlled' (for lack of a better word) through rituals. For example, colour, sigils, oils, herbs, time, methodology and specific deities all have different meanings. So we work with that to achieve specific outcomes. I think of it as stimulating the senses through physical objects to work with your own subconscious. In a sense priming you for success in whatever it is that you intend the ritual/spell to be for. I'm not wiccan but I've inherited a lot of witchy practices from my grandmother and her mother. Science is how I primarily understand the world however, so when I do magick I know it works only because I believe it will. It reminds me of the placebo effect and how it works even when people know it's a placebo. Less exciting than transfiguration but in my opinion- comes in handy.

[@LowelyAnn]

Yeah! I think placebo gets a bad rep, if it works than isn't it good enough? ^^

[@Neo-mu7ql]

I really hope you do an episode about Wicca, and you should get Harmony Nice on.

[@gothiccck6296]

Omg yes! She's lovely

[@erykadish3867]

Gods... anyone but Harmony Nice... Thorn Mooney?

[@justarandomgal2683]

Here you go. kzbin.info/www/bejne/qF7LoGh7jN9nhZI

[@nurailidepaepe2783]

@@erykadish3867 why?

[@raihorkko6067]

I was so afraid of listening to this episode as I am a modern witch but not a wiccan, but you never fail us with how thoroughly you do your research! Starting the episode right away explaining the difference between the two is exactly what I would have done, too. Great job you guys! I feel like witchcraft best described would be "psychology of the subconscious and herbal medicine wrapped in a neat bow with the human belief that there is something bigger than us (ie energy, gods, spirits)"

[@wokery]

corry is so good at accurately representing groups respectfully and doing the research ! i am always so impressed when i listen to an episode on a subject i relate to/am a part of

[@LanguageNerdsofia_]

I've always been agnostic, but whenever I start having repeated nightmares, I make a prayer before going to sleep and they go away. I think putting into words your intentions make them more likely to become true.

[@nightburststudios2142]

As practicing witch who also loves sci guys,, I am so excited for this!

[@elizabethmonroe2290]

As far as I see witchcraft (as a practitioner myself), the basic fundamentals that most witchcraft practices are based on is symbolism and your intention for any one ‘spell’. Also, a book of shadows is basically a diary of your spiritual workings that generally is used to keep your personal magickal knowledge! A side note is that a simple prayer is actually a very simple spell that relies on intent WITHOUT additional ingredients like candles or herbs. To describe the basic workings of a spell is sending your intention (whether empowered with additional ingredients that match the intent or not) to the ‘universe’ to take care of the spiritual side, so that your physical to do list can go off without a hitch. I should wait for the whole video to end before commenting (and here I am doing it again), but while I do believe there is still a mystical sort of power behind it, I also recognize that spells are a great way to guide your unconscious attention to help you in day to day. I’ve never had a good way to describe the psychology portion of it until now, thank you! Another thing is look into tarot cards and how they work, then apply psychology to that as well. This comment is all over the place sorry!

[@elizabethmonroe2290]

I’d also love to suggest you look into the ‘tulpa’ phenomenon and THEN for those people who worship (a) god(s), look away now; . . . imagine how likely would people praying to the same god over and over again be to create a tulpa that can actually talk to you in your head! Being raised as a Christian, my step mom actually told me that god talked to her when she prayed after years

[@ThatMadeEnglish]

You should bring in harmony nice

[@watchingthebees]

As as neo-pagan and a philosophy major, I think spirituality and science are two sides of the same coin

[@tvman889]

I looked up "Science of Witchcraft" because I've been teetering on the fence between witchcraft and science for over 3 years. I've done research on both topics and noticed certain similarities between the two but couldn't put my finger on what, but you guys did it very articulately. I won't lie, it actually ate away at me for a while, but this video just helped me find closure in the fact that both of these topics are extremely similar in their own ways. I kept going into deep research on it, but always found myself finding sources that tried to explain things in either a strictly scientific way, or a strictly religious way. It came to a certain point where I'd find witchcraft sources *just* deep enough for me to understand how people used certain incenses/herbs/oils/candles and why they were used, then perform rituals to ease my anxiety. *But* I didn't do it exactly the way it was instructed, I'd use my own personal ways to utilize those tools in a way that I personally felt would help me. Turns out, that was just a psychological way of doing witchcraft because I had to go through some trial and error to "successfully" do it, and by believing I did it successfully consciously, I subconsciously had much better focus on what didn't make me anxious. You guys earned a sub with this video. You've helped me in more ways than I can probably even fathom right now. I have to say, being agnostic atheist, having extreme interest in science, and working with witchcraft is a very good combination and what the Sci Guys said explained it on a much deeper level. Now I know I don't have to pick between one or the other because they all coincide in a way that doesn't require altering anything I've ever done in the past.

[@emjae8371]

I appreciate how respectful and educated they are about this. At first I thought it was a guest talking about witchcraft because of how accurate the information about the subject.

[@kitendesire6780]

Same :) idk these guys and at first I didn't want to click on the video because I thought they would make fun of witchcraft lol but they are super respectful, funny and informed! As a practitioner I'm really enjoying the video ☺️

[@toomanymen1]

It's a brilliant episode x found it really interesting!

[@OneRandomLeo]

The fact that you mentioned the wicker man shows how much research you have done. Kudos!!! PS: you touched on it later in the video, how the herbology aspect of witchcraft is can be explained with modern medicine. It's the same belief: plants have powers that you can use to heal or change your body (or make someone sick), it's just that witchcraft goes a step further and believes if the plants have powers when you ingest them, they also work and affect you if you, for example, burn them (outside of yourself). To me it is quite plausible that science will be able to prove this in the future.

[@archie9014]

Witch here! Anyone else?

[@kencoleman5007]

I would love to hear a feature on astrology. From what I've gathered, latter day research has associated in a "butterfly effect" way to the moon's effects on the oceans, weather, and us emotionally, and then broadens the view to include planets, microplanes, and other solar systems entirely which are part of astrological constellations.

[@katiealger86]

To Luke’s question about whether the gods are believed in literally or metaphorically, it 100% depends on who you ask. There is no doctrine so there is no definite answer and it is totally up to the individual. I’m not Wiccan, I’m and Eclectic Pagan and I believe in the gods and goddesses as personifications of nature and the human experience.

[@0ente0]

49:00 About this, you guys would be really interested in presocratic philosophy, where each philosopher had a belief or theory about one principle of everything that exists, and Democritus specifically believed that atoms were that principle, that "arje". Look it up

[@9RE4TH3RM1T]

I got the "Wicker Man" reference when you mentioned Wicca guy. lol

[@guillaumedouhe2729]

It's crazy how this video helped me realize that I was a Wiccan all along. haha!

[@PrincessSmiles8D]

As someone who is pagan and loves your show, I like how you've done this episode and the main bulk of it. My only real concern is about Wicca. In the pagan community and the witch community wicca is seen as problematic at the least with Gardner being seen as very problematic. It's a good starting point but understanding more of the cultures and religions that he took from is a better step. And a lot of this video applies to paganism as a whole not just wicca. But as someone who doubted religions as a whole for a long time and works in medicine, I see it as a way to explain the things you don't know which is what modern science is today. And combining them covers the things we might never know in science.

[@pixiedustthemakerofmagic2339]

I am a Witch and I absolutely loved what you all had to say❤️ I could NOT stop smiling! It is so nice to hear people who are not witches finally understand and give us the space and respect❤️ You might of thought you were being disrespectful but we all were laughing along with you😊 I love this!

[@laurafry937]

As a therapist who watches Harmony Nice, I have recognized how much of her spellwork mirrors therapeutic techniques.

Yep, Halloween originates in Celtic Pagan Ireland as Samhain

[@jennifervasquez]

When it comes to nontheistic religions im pretty sure satanism can be categorized as such im not satanist myself but from what i know theyre technically atheists and the common ground beliefs that make it a religion are more of a worldview than theism

[@GaraksApprentice]

It depends on the Satanist. LaVeyan Satanism is technically athiest. Some people do, however, worship Satan as a divine figure.

[@virginiaosullivan6751]

Spiritual atheists...

[@OneRandomLeo]

When they were talking I thought non-theistic religion sounds like "ethics" to me. It's about how we navigate and interact with each other, but the basis isn't a deity.

[@mishapurser4439]

It's great to see more people talking about witchcraft in a good faith conversation. I'm a witch but I'm also a physicalist (I only believe the physical world exists). For me witchcraft is a therapeutic and meaningful exercise rather than a spiritualistic one. The energy you talk about, we call intention. So we do the act of infusing an object with intention towards a particular end. Psychology calls it projection. I think a modern interpretation of witchcraft is a great way to include the benefits of religion and spirituality without compromising a scientific view of the world.

[@warlockrobbie]

Part 2! Is needed and wanted

[@MG-hz7wi]

I'm not a religious person, but I'll tell you something. I sell vintage and antique items for a living, and I have customers with very specific requests for things that are very hard to find. I can't tell you how many times that I've gone out thinking I need to find this or that item and I find it within one day. And I'm talking about things that I haven't seen in years of shopping around. But there it is, as soon as I put it in my brain that I need to find it. I'm not spiritual or religious or anything, but there is something about that focus that seems to bring certain things to you because you're intending to find them. It's really kind of weird

[@LowelyAnn]

Oooh I'm so excited now! Love hearing people talk about Wicca 🥰 In my practice I always see the meaning of life and my religion (Wiccan) as always striving to learn and teach. Even though I believe in a lot of very spiritual things, I believe that they are all related to science and Science in it self is also about learning and teaching, which is why I love it ^^

[@hollycutts8322]

Get harmony nice on.

[@selinapeterscross9740]

Wow almost to the 100th episode 😮

[@elliotenglish1721]

Ikr I been here since episode 4

[@Erin258]

Look into the reticular activating system!! It's the part of your brain that does your filtering based on how you've been conditioned and how that has effected your development.

[@jaydon7593]

Really loved this one! There's a book called "The Biology of Belief" by Bruce H.Lipton I think you'd all enjoy reading - It's written by a cell biologist, who explains the science behind the law of attraction, detailing studies of how mind programming/changing belief systems impacts the biochemical effects of brain function. A really enjoyable read too, not packed with scientific jargon! :)

[@karolinafarsewicz1490]

Hey! I suggested this episode and like you said it was because of you mentioning optimism bias in another episode and I wanted to see what you could find as an experienced researcher in the scientific field that meshes it all together. I myself am a wiccan/neo pagan who researches into witchcraft a lot and does occasionally practice, as well as being fully into science as I find them two in my view very complimentary. Although you only scratched the surface information wise, you definitely didn't say anything untrue about Wicca! it was definitely phrased very respectfully and I personally love a little light-hearted jokes! The conversation around tapping into subconscious mind is very relevant which is why meditation is a very big practise in Wicca and witchcraft and it also aligns with many divination practises. I'm happy to answer any questions or anything you might want to know :) there's a lot more very interesting parallels I could give examples of.

[@nicothenecromancer]

As someone practicing witchcraft i loved this video so much it's just so yes!

[@OracleNightwhisper]

The horned god is modelled on Cernunnos. Also, Superman is actually a Moses allegory created by two Jewish men.

[@hopegold883]

I see your point. Very open-minded. But I was surprised at what was overlooked. The difference between the studies you mentioned and the way these observations are used in religious and spiritual groups is in indicating a causal relationship, telling people that you can influence outcomes by your belief, which leads to the belief that it’s all up to you to create good outcomes in your life, which leads to blaming the victim. And these “law of attraction” adherents absolutely do that. In fact, they’re highly invested in doing so, because things that go wrong in your life not being your own fault directly threaten their own comforting worldview. Yes being positive (/negative) has an impact on your SUBJECTIVE experience, as you said. But the belief that you control (or can, or SHOULD) your health, financial, etc. outcomes in your life leads to making people who are already suffering feel even worse and even be ostracized.

[@angelicaharwell3062]

Spot on Luke. The "humbleness" is key. The concept that we are part of a bigger whole. All science has order & purpose that shows a perfection that to me becomes impossible to see as mere "chance", or evolution, big bang, ect. The only peace I've found is that sense of "humbleness". The feeling that I'm more than this body & this life. I can now look at this existence as a process of development..finding my truest, innate essence, through the challenges & wonders of this world.🌎 Even the Bible speaks of us not ever fully understanding or comprehending the concept of God..& to me that shows the great divide of a mere Human, & a higher entity/power. Again, thank you for the discussion👏

[@Ness_HAE]

If you plan to make podcast on Wicca, I'd recommend Thorn Mooney - she's a high priestess of traditional Gardnerian coven and has no bs videos about Wicca as the religion. And about notion that Superman has similar trope to Jesus - there are witches who draw from pop culture as a source of symbolism and archetypes for their practice. It's usually looked down upon, but thinking about pop culture media and spiritual texts and mythos as stories, each of them have some symbols and lessons ingrained within them. This topic is actually researched by sociologists under hyper-real or fiction-based religion.

[@helennewson3862]

buddhism is a non-theistic religion btw,, they don't view the buddha as a god, he was just a human who figured out the way of life that they see best

[@OliviaCynderAera]

I'd like there to be a deep dive into energy work and why/how it works. Why can energy cause someone feel someone else from miles away? How does energy play into that? How does weather magic work? How does energy work allow a person to pick up on things in another person's body/mind/spirit (including things that they'd have no way of knowing from just the physical observations they're limited to)? How is it that tulpas from different systems are able to interact with tulpas from another system? (these are all questions I have based on personal experiences. I have guesses as to what may be happening, but I want to know for certain why and how these things work)

[@devinaanggraini8105]

I know this episode wasn't talking about brain but i just wanna say that i love everytime you guys discuss about brain!! I'm in highschool now and studying about brain and its pretty fun! Some of the topics i studied have discussed here before i learned about it

[@tamoyed]

SAI pfp

[@13gudadod]

I was *SUMMONED*

[@GaraksApprentice]

My partner the Wiccan would shoot me if I didn't point out that you've committed one of the classic blunders with regards to the Threefold Law: The Wiccan Threefold Law originally only applied to one's coven. The intent was to make sure people didn't screw over their coven-mates - any harm you did to a coven-mate could be visited back upon you threefold by the other coven members. It was later generalised to all of Wiccan magical practice. I'll also note that there are many, many magical practitioners (some call themselves witches, some don't) that don't ascribe to any version of the Threefold Law. So while Wicca and witchcraft are often conflated, there's distinct differences between the two.

[@rachaelevans8351]

oooo, I didn't know that

Ooh Margaret Murray is a problematic influence to mention actually - her work on witchcraft was based on witch trials but mostly fictitious and has been roundly disproven. But her work was influential, yes.

[@ektheshapeshifter1239]

cancel Margaret Murray party /s

[@sad_doggo2504]

Really enjoyed this! It's true there's a demonstrable benefit to witchcraft and similar practices and it's nice to see a deep dive into the science behind it.

[@lorensnowden4445]

Te talk about spirituality and being religious was really interesting. I don't believe in any religion but spirituality I think covers how you feel about yourself. I am a biologist so I find these conversations so fascinating as people just want to understand and control the unknown

[@michellehart8311]

I loved this so much! Thank you guys

[@Kaltag2278]

I'm an atheist who folds wiccan/pagan practices into my life. I know the crystals aren't literally going to "cleanse the bad engery" but they make me happy.

[@AG-hx6qn]

Same.

[@alexbrewster4317]

im a christian in the uk so I'm very privileged in that I hear about my own religion in school, but it means I have very limited knowledge of other religions, so thank you for this episode it was fascinating.

[@ezmetics]

A little bit different than usual. Loved the episode and it made me think about some things 😁

[@mishapurser4439]

Aspirin comes from the bark of the willow tree.

[@user-oy4vu3ck3u]

There are things like secular Buddhism, where you take the teachings and practices of a religion for mindfulness or community

[@Susan-jr3ld]

Book of Shadows is a diary of personal spells and understandings. Each person puts their own stuff in there. It is not to be shared.

[@animaier]

There are super interesting studies in "magic". The book "Real Magic" for example, or studies on reincarnation therapy is incredibly as well

[@joshcims6616]

I absolutely love this episode ❤️❤️

[@saichmcauley4675]

in terms of the difference between wicca and witchcraft: wicca is a religion. witchcraft is a practice just as is art, cooking, playing an instrument, and is a practice wicca incorporates. that's the clearest way it can be put imo :) also! some wiccans believe in the deities as actual beings, and some wiccans are a type of secular pagan and view the deities as aspects of nature personified as they find it a helpful way to worship nature and the earth (which is what i believe)

[@gothiccck6296]

Its an official religion in the uk aswell fyi

[@prp584]

Great episode! 😁

[@badanovaanna3765]

omgg please bring Harmony in I would love that😌

[@ashlynfaulkner4735]

Pam Grossman of the Witch Wave podcast is an amazing resource and very eloquent witch 🌌

[@CringeYoutubeName69]

how is this podcast not huge yet

[@Anhivelasco]

Favorite Episode!

[@arianaink100]

I think of spells of a way of working out something that is bothering me. It’s a moment to reflect and analyze what is an issue, what I want to change out that issue, and the ways I want to do that. That’s why my spell is a personal thing that works for me or doesn’t work for me if it wasn’t meant to be. But if I have enough feeling that I know it will keep me up all night thinking of it or something that upsets me repeatedly or something that I want to attract to my life, a change. Sometimes there’s no actual way to make a thing happen, you can desire it, but you know it either will or won’t happen. Sometimes it’s good enough to ease your own worries, understand different possibilities or accept how things are in the moment knowing change will happen later. I can physically bottle something, I can burn something, freeze something, write something, snap things, ring bells, sing or hum, act out whatever feeling I feel in the moment or act out whatever it is I want in the future. That’s why the Wiccan reed reflects that idea; to do what you have to in your spells but not do anything that is outside of that personal reflection and action and thought. Although if working with another person respecting them. Although this is also a personal idea to each witch on what is and what is not harm and what is action that is moral or reprehensible. That’s also why some people believe in the rule of 3 if you actively seek to hurt another person you put out and attract that energy and so it can come back to you, as nearly everything is seen as working in spherical or cyclical ways. Books of shadows are personal collections of spells, methods of working that are successful to the individual thus worthy of keeping a record of. If dancing for an hour made you feel better it’s nice to keep that as a routine thing, if chanting for 20 minutes over water does it so be it. You’re understanding of witchcraft depends on your understanding of the world, your heritage your ancestors your daily life and daily activities. It’s dependent on you because you can change how you feel by doing something simple or complex and you can make other people smile or cry by talking to them or interacting with them or intending and hoping that something terrible happens to them and act coldly to them. Because how you act can affect others if you intend it to and you do the work of interacting. If you do nothing and have no intention nothing will happen if you have only intention it’s up to fate and if you have intention and you work towards that goal you feel unstoppable and you may impress yourself by being successful but that doesn’t mean there won’t be repercussions or that you may not be successful and you must understand why and accept it and find a way to move on with life. With worshiping a diety or god. You have to understand polytheistic religions and if they think the god is an entity that creates existence and thus exists outside of existence not present in our reality, or as something that is present in our reality has its own energy or power. You can have offerings to gods to give them power or to have them acknowledge you in that moment. If the god exists on this land where do they exist now physically?, how do they relate to space and physical reality?, do they interact with the people and influence people?,does actual human history influence the way the god is perceived and overtime their attributes? Do gods have relationships with people and have children thus making humans believe in holy bloodlines and generations of people related to the gods directly? Do you have society hierarchy where the ruler is a descendant of god or a representative? Is your god a create of man made language and the invention of writing. Are your gods memes, templates of transferring information about a subject or topic with specific focus on powers/functions and their relation of the entire world,society,familial,interpersonal,and personal relations. Vs monotheistic god exists outside of existence because they created existence; all things prior to their conception as physical things and their conception of concept. They are a creator that knows all of what has happened and will happen for it is already done. They do care directly for what is happening currently as they know it is in the midst of an ongoing process. Why stop a marbles roll when you invented the marble and all things around it and you know exactly where and when it will roll, is rolling, and will stop and for what circumstances it will stop under and why those also exist and must exist. That’s why Catholics made angels it makes more money and gives god a reason to send someone to ‘stop’ the marbles progress (stop, as if that wasn’t always meant to ‘change the marbles course to being what it is willed by god’ and having the person accepting that) be not afraid all is going to plan why are you freaking out this is already done you are merely a walking moment in time that hasn’t happened yet and is currently existing, relax, maybe have a baby if you’re a woman if you’re a man here’s a 12 step program onto not being an asshole 24/7 let’s all try to do that and not kill eachother over every small little thing that bothers us. If you say you don’t want to do those 12 steps then you’re kind of agreeing to be a bad person and you’ll be treated like a bad person in life and when you die because you’re a d1ck and deserve to be treated like one you will have something terrible happen to you after you die hopefully. Because all of us are following these rules to be good people in life and want good things when we die to know we did good all along. The puppy really wants the kibble treat forever and ever even if there is nothing in the hand of the owner, it’s the idea of the kibble that’s so mesmerizing in the moment and it’s a nice hope that the dead puppy that wanted treats will get them forever and ever. All dogs go to heaven as of like 2018 or something… and who you ask. All religions are weird because people are weird and we make weird things and we’re not really good at making anything but we’re getting better and slowly getting more precise although we know we’ll never be 100% flawless in absolutely every aspect. If something can go wrong it will. We don’t have an environment that is 100% lab safe sterile and made of perfect edges and spheres. We get kinda close enough to the idea of that without ever 100% doing that. Laboratories are as stable as conditions allow and test groups as isolated and controlled as possible. You are on a rock in space buckle up life has some complex realities set upon the necessity of survival it was a messy messy messy way of fighting to survive in all environments with competitors of resources things are going to be specialized and diverse according to those variable environments. Life is a little chaotic and acceptance of that is really freeing from a perfectionists standpoint. Just do your best everything is just trying in the moment only as much as it wants to and is required to by its physicality.

[@Erin258]

Reputable scientists acknowledge that they cannot know the absolute truth. I think that becomes most clear when you apply statistics to any given field. We try to get as close to the truth as possible for practical, applicable purposes. i.e vaccines and things🙃

[@circejanuary]

You should have focused about how pagans believe there is energies/vibration in everything that we use. Also discuss about the belief of interconnection between a species I think there was a study made on rats and some monkeys

[@MilesFredrick]

They should do an episode about therians

[@Ross-cecil]

science of astrology video please!! I've never been into it but I seem to attract friends that are, I want to understand their interest through a lense that is more up my ally

[@soakupthenoise]

has the optimism bias been adjusted for quality of life outcomes? in other words, are people who expect the world to help them possibly people who the world has actually helped more than people who expect the world to hurt them? for example, are pessimists more likely to be poor, unattractive, uncharismatic, etc.

[@More13Feen]

I was wiccan for a while. Solitary though, there are no convents where I live. I was raised on a cult like family and when I grew up wiccan where my own adaptation. By now my spirituality comes down to the jewisch saying (paraphrasing) "if you drink from sience long enough you will find god at the bottom of the glass." Its pretty freaking amazing we are made of starstuff, atoms exist, everything! Thats enough realy who needs a god if you can actualy contamplait on how amazing it is that we exist? I am also autistic so this kind of makes me feel this on an other level.

[@karolinafarsewicz1490]

Also to let you know the references don't seem to be in the description box, seems to have gotten cut short.

[@garethjones2596]

Margaret Murray was an Egyptologist who suggested that some of the descriptions in renaissance witch trials resembled features of Egyptian religion, mainly the use of dildoes in fertility rites. She expanded this insight into the thesis that there was an organized religion that ran counter to Christianity. Among other things she identified Christianity with Puritanism and assumed that Christianity was the drab soulless cult of John Milton. She tried to demonstrate that the "Dianic" cult was organized into covens of 13 members and collected names of witches, discovering that one of the most common "witch" names was Christian. Among the solid results of her research was an examination "flying ointments," most of which used alkaloid-bearing plants to produce pharmacologically valid effects on the users.

[@pokemonfanthings4444]

32:35 same!

[@michaellopes5040]

witch gang

[@heyna1185]

i understood the wicker man reference 🥺

[@Erin258]

Also Hearthwitch is a good KZbinr for magical knowledge!!

[@PR-tr7ng]

if you guys still plan on doing a wicca episode you should talk to Harmony Nice!!!

[@chocfudgebrowni]

The whole optimism bias logic was why i didn't continue believing in wicca as a religion but more in a spiritual way :D

[@TheEnbyDragon]

I grew up in a fundamentalist christian young earth cult. I became an atheist once i moved out and dabbled in paganism for the lols. I used tarot cards, and one day, i pulled the same disaster card twice while attempting to do a reading for two of my partners (I'm polyam). Two weeks later, i ended up in the hospital barely clinging to life. I know and knew logically that it was all in how you internalized the meaning, but man, did it freak me out once i got out of the hospital and remembered the readings i had done. Now it's purely an aesthetic i embrace to say f*ck you to my childhood religion, i dont need to risk internalizing a potential disaster until i turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. I know i would have ended up in the hospital with or without the readings, but the coincidence was enough to get me to not tempt fate anymore.

[@Lindalawen]

I don't know if someone said It, but the "visualization" that a lot of sport coaches and coaches in general use, it's basically manifestation. At the end all of this is psychology.

[@TheAZElele]

You could try getting Thorn Mooney! She’s a Wiccan who makes great content on KZbin

[@KnowWhatIsTrue]

As much as i do enjoy watching kindergartners play with their toys - I can only watch for a few minutes here and there - -

[@gjits5307]

Rather than saying "these types of magic have a scientific basis" it seems equally fair to say "these types of science have a magic basis" Herb lore and medicine, astrology and astronomy, alchemy and chemistry, trepanning and surgery... Much of the time, "protoscience" is a more accurate term than "pseudoscience"

[@feyntmistral1110]

Late response, but considering your focus on science and psychology, I think that the concept of "belief" and "prayer" should be something you can achieve now insomuch as you've researched the topic and have seen that psychologically there's a greater odd that you will work toward (consciously or unconsciously) the fate you're aiming for through the focus of "spells". It's the ritual of engaging in those things that allows focusing your mind and influencing your subconscious toward the end you intend. So, yes, while there is no spiritual or supernatural influence, the equally mysterious "power of the mind" allows you to accomplish things you otherwise might be prone to procrastinate on or shrug off as impossible or incredibly unlikely. At the very least, you get a meditative moment to recollect your thoughts and enjoy a pleasing scent via herbs or oils, or engage in grand theatre with others dealing tarot. >) I'd lean more toward the herbalism. Science as you said has proven that many of those herbs of olden times do have uses, if not subdued compared to modern medicine. Home remedies for simple maladies (like the ginger, honey, and lemon for a sore throat) seems like a decent alternative. I mean if it's a chronic problem or a suddenly horrible thing (like a heart attack or dislocated limb), go see a doctor, obviously that's something you want looked at. But at the same time you don't go to the doctor every time you have a sleepless night or sore back.

[@Ross-cecil]

so weird to listen to this as someone raised by a jewish athiest in a part of the US with very little Jews, yet I was raised with a lesbian rabai. When they talk about 'religion' it's not my conception at all. I was never raised to believe in god, yes I went to sunday school but my parents never wanted me to believe in god. I was taught about the torah like it's folktale. These are the songs people sang when going through really hard times, but they survived and their culture persisted, but it's never been easy so we're going to perserve it. This is the food they ate around this time of year. even if the stories in the Torah aren't true, there have been many Jews over the course of history that have sat around reading and arguing about these stories and weather or not they're true, that's multiple books of the Tenak. But also, growing up I never thought that this concept of religion was weird, it's sort of how christianity feels to people that would say 'yeah i guess i'm a christian, i'm not really sure if i believe in god and all that' but christians are the majority so it doesn't hold as much weight. While the words all 3 of you are saying are about how you could never be 'religious', you're still clearly talking about christianity. As I get older and learn more about Judaism, I think it's cool, but I don't get a moral compass from it and never have. To me, the idea of religion doesn't have to include that and the idea of religion wasn't dogmatic Not to say there isn't a ton of sexism within Jewish hierarchies, but again I was raised with a lesbian rabai so to me when I was growing up Judaism never felt sexist

[@Ross-cecil]

Like, all 3 of you said that as kids you prayed every now and then 'just in case'. I never did that because praying was never something imposed on me. I've ALWAYS seen it like a sort of meditating and I thought meditation was stupid when I was a kid so I thought praying was stupid. I still see praying sort of like meditation, but now that I'm older I don't think meditation is stupid.

[@Ross-cecil]

I think the way Luke described Science as something searching for an ultimate truth feels like a christian way of looking at science and Cory's way of explaining science as the best way we have right now at understanding the world is how the church was once seen, historically, besides the bit about questioning everything. That being said, the idea of questioning things has historically been connected to Jewish teachings. Does this come from the torah itself or the real history of percecution Jews have faced, real social structures built to keep Jews down.

[@k-jadeart]

As someone who've been listening to you guys for months, this episode surprised me Σ(°□° I grew up and live on the lines between the world of Christianity, Magic, Spectral, science and spirituality, so I believe a lot and was a bit worried on how this was going to go... But after hearing someone who is an atheist/scientist talk about wicca and magic with an open mind and just the way Corry and the rest talked about it in general was just a breathe of fresh air You guys never cease to surprise me and proved to be my favorite podcast even more \(≧♡≦)/💖

[@Thatwitchcc]

The 3 fold is usually just for wiccans

[@koalaskrypin]

52:30 To me, Corrys belief in science seems rather religious. 😉

[@vinc885]

Wicca is the religion, as you said. You can be an atheist witch though, and you could be a christian witch.

[@justarandomgal2683]

Yes there are non-theistic religions Jainism is a non theistic religion.

[@ellileathen2021]

I would have a nap on mars

[@cane6656]

If for one second people just looked at what you just said about Optimus and pessimists it's all about energy and if you're a negative Nancy you're going to attract negative people and negative energies and your life will be more negative. If you are genuinely happy optimistic type of person you're going to attract the better side of life it's just a fact the law of attraction is very very real and it's all about energy because we are energy beings living in a physical world We are very spiritual we just we're not taught how to use our natural abilities.

[@saulcontrerasOfficial]

I want to be in a podcast

[@max_the_mantis5173]

aS A NON wICKEn, bUt A wIZArd, i LOvED thIS tHUROUGHly

[@Drawoon]

Could you have a non-theistic religion? I imagine you could have a religion based on ancestors or on spirits.

[@SciGuys]

I believe Buddhism is a non-theistic religion!

[@Drawoon]

@@SciGuys wonderful

[@katvann7431]

47:47 Buddhism is considered a non theistic religion.

[@katvann7431]

a lot of witches, including myself, love Harry Potter. No offense taken😹

[@mliljegard19771209]

The God and the Godess,blessed be.