The Scrub Mentality

Stop being a dick and you'll get better.
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[@ryujijitei]

I'd rather lose with a weapon I enjoy than win with a weapon I hate using.

[@alexanderchon9058]

AMEN

[@bl3florv0rk-61]

@@JP-hr3xq i love the l star i reached gen 2 with it in a day

[@michaelkusjanovic9954]

It’s possible that you missed the point of the video. By all means play with what and however you most enjoy. But at the same time, don’t crap on a player who consistently beats you with that weapon that you refuse to use.

[@david_martin_per]

Or be like me and try to level up all weapons to gen10 ---- softball, cold war, wingman (not elite!) and P2016 to go

[@anduro7448]

Agreed Im the person that uses the Negev in CS:GO. It is very fun in my opinion. some people claim that it is shit , but it is not shit in my hands. it shreds in Anti-rushes , flanks , and where ever you can take the enemies by surprise , but if you are the one that gets the surpise , you are the one that gets shredded (balanced imo). The negev IMO , does not rely on raw skill as much as smarts (positioning , smoke nading properly , where the enmies are going, etc.)

[@InHUM44n]

There are strategies that annoy some people... *AND THEN THERE'S THE SMART PISTOL*

[@Ahmadabdal_]

dude the smart pistol actually realy sucks like i can kill with epg but can't with smart pistol

[@saba7733]

Easily dealable if you got the reaction times and skill

[@flapitz1014]

@@saba7733 what if I'm in a wheelchair?

[@saba7733]

@@flapitz1014 go back to battle royale

[@saba7733]

@@flapitz1014 movement is useless there

[@ratchex]

If this game had a ranked mode, I'd totally agree with you. As it is, pubstomping with blatantly overpowered shit is just how you make the game boring and suck the fun out of it for newer players.

[@littleghostisaroninmain7103]

i don't think anyone could have said it ant better

[@alcoholic402]

If everybody has the ability to be overpowered, then nobody is overpowered

[@Harvey_KN1GHT]

@@alcoholic402 well how are they going to be overpowered if they are new they don't know the game

[@gabankillasta1826]

@@Harvey_KN1GHT EXACTLY

[@GoodlyData86596]

@@Harvey_KN1GHT plus as the saying goes “two wrongs doesn’t equal a right, no smart ass, three wrongs doesn’t equal a right ether along with any amounts of wrongs added together”

[@MrCat-fy7bz]

Frothy: Put down the mastiff Me clutching mastiff: NOOOO

[@hometimemayhem928]

that thing can fuck up ppl at ANY range short range? 1 shit medium? 2 shot long? 4 shot

[@captaincronked7895]

This but with scorch. Don't you DARE tell me to not use Papa Scorch

[@godlywalrus2694]

@@hometimemayhem928 hehe 1 shit

[@airdumptruck1098]

Scorch I shall not give up on you!!

[@christianmingle7275]

AirThePolarBear who says that he is bad on complex or boom town

[@eclipsed7719]

He's rhe best

[@kultkaiser]

Very high damage output = very high damage output. Basically scorch does a lot of damage

[@kaivirin]

Scorch is pretty good tho o:

[@Aflay1]

I enjoy my gameplay of Scorch with a glass of Scotch.

[@punk5585]

"it's okay to use the titan who wins every battle she's in, you're the scrub, git gud" Ight pal.

[@monke980]

I mean if you want to win, if you care that much, do the same thing.

[@monke980]

@CXLVS ARCHIVE i said do the same, so also use the titan that wins every fight, if you care so much.

[@Ibrahim-jz2lj]

​@monke980 nah, more like I'm trying to have fun and this sweaty fatty is pub stomping and ruining any fun

[@nathancoleman8948]

"Jimmy" as you called him couldn't even move in most of that Mortal Kombat match due to the opponant obviously exploiting a mechanic for an easy victory. Someone once said one of the smartest things developers can do is protect the players from themselves because most players will exploit everything they can to achieve victory regardless of whether you are skilled or new. So, a match in which you say a person has fallen into a so called "scrub mentality" because he didn't take the time to "Git Gewd" seems hardly justifyable when the abuse of such mechanics won't even give him the opportunity to. To say that someone would be wrong for being upset for that seem rather ascenine.

[@guypedro7379]

Exactly, u can't "Git Gewd" if u aren't given the chance to.

[@Hellothere-bk9cf]

You can use asinine correctly in a sentence but not spell it right. Agree with the comment but that just made me chuckle.

[@RjGoombes]

Couldn't he have just, ya know, blocked?

[@Glennkabob]

RJ Goombes I think I saw the attack doing damage through the block so it wasn’t going to hold out indefinitely

[@samoclese6435]

Yeah, blocks in those games don't eliminate all your damage, just the majority of it. And looking back at the footage, it looks like the move is equal on block, meaning, for people that don't know, that you come out of the attack animation at the same time as the opponent comes out of the block. Yes, on the one hand, the kid needed to move more unpredictably, which is a skill that's learned with time, but on the other hand stomping the newbies like that using what is in reality an incredibly cheap tactic is exactly how to turn new players away from your game. The first few hours of someone's playtime are the most crucial, why bother putting in the time to learn a game you don't enjoy? At the end of the day, the average person is playing to have fun over everything else, and certain strategies within some games are counter-intuitive to fun.

[@mandrillmacmonkey6137]

It's hilarious to watch people badmouth the mastiff, and scorch in 2020

[@tuenurio2892]

And now in 2020 lol

[@darthrevan3542]

Now I just hate the spitfire so... SO MUCH.

[@frostyfizz7915]

Scorch, the chef who cooked pilots for the team barbeque. :)

[@thearkademachine3935]

I love the mastiff, but I’m so bad at it. I get more kills by using it as a sniper than by using it as an actual shotgun.

[@thenewmeta4893]

Mate I badmouthed this guy using the Mastiff to my friend, but only because he t-bagged me after killing me. I don’t care if you use the Mastiff against me, however, I *_do_* care if you disrespect me after using something cheesy to kill me.

[@madsnowman4067]

I don't know if I totally agree. Many football players they dive and they simulate injury to gain advantages. They do it because they can and it works. That doesn't mean it's okay because they're playing to win. My point being, every scenario can't be excused by saying "I play to win. If you don't do the same it's not my problem". I don't think casual gamers are above fair play. And I talk more in a direction of exploits, not strong weapons. And deep down, I'll always be a scrub to some degree. Some people have extremely cynical playstyles that takes the fun out of the game for everyone except themselves. My brain will always scream "fucking cunts" at them. But I hold my self to high enough standards to not say it out loud.

[@gravity00x]

I couldnt agree more to every single point. One thing I would like to add is; just because I think it is stupid and cheap, and requires no skill doesn't mean i don't want to, or cant play around it and be better. I could or will. But hell, it doesnt remove the fact that its cheap and unsportsmanlike. Unsportsmanlike being the bigger argument. Being beaten by somebody who uses 99% aid of the AI to kill you is not something to be proud of or any kind of accomplishment. I'd rather suck donkeyballs than let the system cheat for me legally.

[@josephpeters49]

@@gravity00x sounds like you hated titanfall and should have stopped playing it sooner.

[@skye6184]

@@gravity00x the smart pistol....i think that's the only weapon that actually can be hated on

[@dmdcrown157]

Diving doesn't always work since neymar got booked for it

[@jacklee9668]

I completely agree, these strategies just take the fun out of titanfall and any other game, like campers in cod. It's honestly not even enjoyable to use cheap tactics because it's more fun to take risks, and maybe lose more often. I don't hate people for playing that way, I just don't think it should be rewarded. Basically people should stop caring whether they win or not and just play video games to have fun like everyone else

[@hyperx72]

I was agreeing with some of your points but then you started going on with ways to limit player options, telling them to stop using weapons/abilities that they can work with. (The most confusing of which was the put-down on holopilot, as I've seen and used it in many ways to get kills I wouldn't have without it.) I do understand the toxic attitude of complaining about everything as "overpowered", but the opposite of saying "Only use what WE say is effective" Is elitist in way and also limiting.

[@quantum5661]

i use the holo pilot, A-wall, devotion, and smart pistol. i use the holo pilot because its great to breach and clear with. i use the A-wall so i have a chance to see my killer coming and fight back. i use the devotion because its like the smart pistol and can be used even if you are a bad player. i used the smart pistol in titanfall 1 because i couldnt keep up with the other players. at the end of the day, i do what i want when i want if i want and fuck anyone that says otherwise. *posted at 2 am, lets see how delirious i was when i posted*

[@hyperx72]

Alright

[@quantum5661]

oh so i didnt come off as totaly nuts? thats good. i really need to stop typing shit up past 1 am...

[@hyperx72]

It all makes sense, though I use the smart pistol from time to time for different reasons I understand where you're coming from.

[@mysterywyvern7065]

I have felt incredibly accomplished lately, as I run around using only P2016 I have noticed that I have began to beat smart pistol users (not everytime), and it makes me want to rub it in their faces so much like pistol vs smart pistol it just seems so ironic that I win that match up lol

[@gj8622]

Getting good enough to destroy people using the utmost meta with off meta weapons is way more satisfying and proves superior skill at said game.

[@netsong2239]

Camping with G2 in Titanfall is just like using the climbing gloves to go up stairs.

[@David.77]

I came across a great G2 player camping rooftops, and their aim was incredible. Excellent aim, unfortunately, beats good movement.

[@chickennuggcorgi]

I use horrible weapons and abilities to challenge myself. It's good. But painful. Who feels the same?

[@jesseclark7105]

MiningToCraft Cloak + Softball main lol. My long-range strategy is running a whole lot and getting sneaky executions.

[@Gitbitty]

MiningToCraft its the only reason why I'm still playing scorch and smr for life

[@lifereadguy9933]

Guys serious question... do you think the softball is easy to use? I feel the comunity is kinda Split on this.

[@theicequeen32]

LifeReadGuy99 no lol if anything it's a challenge. Cold War is my baby ^-^

[@freddycastro7967]

The Ice Queen same. cold war for life

[@sirswag01]

Nice video Frothy. I feel that I have absolutely been an advocate of the Scrub mentality for many Titanfall 2 players. My entire 'Joy of using under powered weapons' video was designed to encourage people to stop only using meta weapons. However I think many people misinterpreted the video entirely and took it a bit further than I intended. In my personal opinion, to be a truly good player, you need to be able to top scoreboards with the worst weapons against all but the most skill of enemies. It was more of a call to action for the most skilled players to pick up the weak guns as they're more satisfying to use, as opposed to shaming newer players for using easier weapons. I'm glad you made this video. Cheers for the top content.

[@FrothyOmen]

+Sir Swag 😎

[@Xonthos]

I read that with the MLG voice in my head, hahah. Love your stuff Sir Swag.

[@calsmith1639]

Sir Swag that was put well. I agree. also, like John Kennedy I love your stuff. nice comment and nice vids

[@marcobarrientos4953]

Could't agree more SirSwag, I always run around with the Greandier weapons just to challenge myself and most of the time I get the most kills and it feels so satisfying when that happens

[@joeanti-governmentjones9463]

Sir Swag your videos are shit

[@cherkunkleowo7214]

The car is undeniably a op gun however. the car has little to no recoil, a large magazine, decent firerate and good damage. It has one of the highest dps in the game, beating other guns in different categories such as the Assault Rifle. The idea that one can just be a scrub for not liking people using sweaty or objectively op weapons in a video game is very disappointing. as many people have pointed out, the "you need to learn" clip has nothing to do with one not adapting but with one exploiting a powerful mechanic in a game to have a far larger advantage. the smart pistol can autolock onto pilots and gives you no real warning on their location except for "he might be somewhere on ur right" however that warning is far too weak as youll most likely die before then. and onto tone. tone isn't op but everyone knows very well how easy he is to play. if all you have to do is get a triple lock, you use your missiles. there is no cooldown to the missiles so hypothetically you could get 14 locks and pummel an entire titan with it if angled correctly. all of tones kits are designed solely to help improve how many locks you can get either directly or indirectly. the argument that car tone and smart pistol are "just something scrubs hate" is not only disappointing to hear from a high level player but just not true. Spitfire...well everyone already hates to see a 80 round box mag with high damage and little damage dropoff so thats not a hard description to make. hope that cleared it up for people, if not sorry. TLDR: hating these isnt a bad thing, its just an excuse for veterans to make the game a hellscape for noobies.

[@NyanDiamond]

“Think of a way around it instead of complaining” -a fair point However...when the only way around is to copy it, we have a legitimate problem. Saying this is “scrub mentality” is just promoting the game to become completely 1 dimensional in its gameplay And considering there is no ranked in Titan fall, using these over powered weapons is just a dick move, as it ruins the fun for others (as either they get destroyed by the game itself or are forced into the same play style)...if there was a ranked mode then I’d be more lenient since in ranked you should “play to win” but out of ranked you should be able to have fun

[@weirdchamp4601]

I partially agree with this comment, but it’s no fun to have to switch to weapons you don’t enjoy using because you can’t kill campers lol

[@paladinleeroy7394]

Ive never felt like i had to switch loadouts in order to have fun at the game. Theres always going to be a time where someone is play in a way that you dont like in any game.

[@MrGriak]

People will always play a game in a way you don’t like in every game and you just have to accept that. It’s not cheating, it’s not unfair if they are playing with abilities and guns the way they were designed to be used. If people started getting rid of stuff in real life just because they didn’t like it, we’d be living in a shithole right now.

[@doolioart3314]

Those are different notions. It's absolutely valid to complain about bad balance. That's not what scrub mentality is.

[@yourunclejohn984]

@@MrGriak Not how that works in games, balance is important and in Titanfall there really isn’t a super good balance. Kinda bad honestly.

[@jacobkreifels7690]

This video is like 1m stretched to 13ms. The same information repeatedly said over and over in a roundabout way. Just watch the last minute of the video and you'll get everything the guy was saying.

[@Wheelz567]

"using the tool that helps you win best is ok and not cheap" ....until it gets nerfed by the devs because that toolset is intrinsically unbalanced *cough* early versions of Tone *cough*.

[@FrothyOmen]

+Wheelz567 what are you even arguing here?

[@Wheelz567]

Mainly the idea of "It shouldn't be bad to call out a currently broken weapon/hero as cheap when encountered, so long as it's constructive for the health of the game". Back when Tone was very unbalanced, players often shamed Tone users, especially when Tone's were stacked, as being "cheap". Yet one could argue it was a tactic that helped secure the win, which was accurate back then. Your video made it sound like it would defend a situation like that, one where a pre-patch Tone would be considered "a fair tactic, just adapt to fight it. It's the meta". Despite that though, Tone went through *numerous* nerfs to greatly narrow her effectiveness, which is clear evidence to the fact that she was in fact overpowered and broken. In other words, she was granting far too many "cheap plays" with no regard to skill. To call out a broken weapon, hero, mechanic, etc as cheap isn't *always* wrong, only in-so-far that the callout makes it clear that such a particular part of the game needs re-tweaking. Take Battlefield for example, BF1 in particular. Before notable patches, BF1 had horrendous grenade spam. Yet grenades were a basic tool of the game. If I am understanding the video correctly, you'd defend that the grenade spam is *fair* and just something to adapt against to fight, yes? But how do you adapt to that? If you've played BF1, you're probably familiar with all of the choke points. In public settings, this was not adaptable, especially on Monte Grappa. And this was *recognized* by the development team, thereby validating the fact that *grenade spam was in fact a problem, because it's devalues elements of the game's intent* (it also alluded to poor map design in that case). BF1 grenades were a surefire way to get a cheap kill, regardless of skill level, on a frequency level that was never intended. I'm just thinking there's a difference between a "cheap, but fair tactic", like picking the SMART pistol for your boost in Titanfall or sniping in a tank in BF1 versus "exploiting a provenly unbalanced weapon", like pre-patch Tone, or BF1 grenade spamming. I just got the vibe from the video that you were defending BOTH situations, regarding the concept of "git gud" as if it were in a vacuum, immune to the existence of unbalanced toolsets. I don't actually think you as a player believe that, just that this video didn't mention those talking points. Great video otherwise! I enjoyed the broader concepts of the psychology and how else it interacts with life.

[@vanthonyacosta91drre]

Wheelz567 We all remember early game Tone *Shudders in fear*. It WAS cheap, but it WAS technically a smart tactic. I think we should be more mad at the devs for that kind of inbalance. But honestly if you're gonna use "cheap" tactics and broken and unbalanced game mechanics, don't be surprised when people hate you for it. BTW I will main Scorch FOREVER!! (He needs some serious buffs to keep him relevant.)

[@Wheelz567]

Right, that's what I'm thinking. It was cheap, but it was smart. If you want to win, you're going to play with the tools that give you the greatest edge. You're going to bring a gun to a knife fight, so don't be surprised when everyone calls you out on it. All I can think of is from the first Pirates of Carribean, when Cpt. Jack pulls out a flink-lock in the middle of a sword fight. Will Turner: "You cheated." Also yes!!! Scorch! Mai Boi!!! I know he's got his weaknesses, but I'll fight through them regardless! :D

[@ProlificPianist]

Absolutely! The only time I call people out on cheating is if it's a fight against crap weapons, Kraber duel and they whip out a Moza, lol. Those rat bastards who cheat on Kraber duels must be punished!

[@troglodyte4207]

Maybe it’s just time to stop having fun, don’t choose what you enjoy, choose what I say is good

[@metalman2320]

that's what I hate about the video. the entire thing could be summed up as if you found a glitch where an enemy found a glitch were you could spam a archer without locking on, it's in the game. so I guess it's fair. your allowed to be pissed of if the enemy uses cheap ways to win. I've quit matches were I was camped from smart pistols as I spawned, over, and over. So I guess, your not allowed to have fun anymore, just use stuff that wins.

[@thunderomen2175]

@@highsped ever since this video ive started to do abit of reading and looking at new perspectives, though i cant change my temper when im getting beated in certain ways, like getting crushed on solo queue, getting rekt and being tbag ect, at the end of the day i keep the saltiness to myself( most of the time anyway) for cheap tactics i do get into stages interms of improvements here which helps me in some scenarios on how to deal with them like when devotion campers were a thing and fighting against ppl who uses better titans, whens or any other op stuff, i do still use the weapons that i found fitting for me that some are underrated and i still manage to hold my own fine while combating others who got the advantage interms of gear. idc, some people needs to use something to keep the variaty good, like the equipment that makes their first impression and maybe defines them, while i do the same with my unique gear , you know? Sounds pretty interesting concept when you look at it that way, or not idk.

[@monocleduck1115]

@@highsped im at a pretty high level in a fighting gameand I still find certain strats really fucking overpowered that doesnt require nerly as much skill as it need for u to counter it, the game for me is now completely unplayable, if i have a lucky day i can play more than 30 minutes without getting tilted at players that are much below my skill bracket making my game unenjoyable. my point is, no matter how good you are, there will still be people that will ruin the game for u

[@doolioart3314]

How do dozens of you guys miss the point where you don't have to do that? But also, if you don't do that, deal with the consequences of your choices, which is the entire point of the video. He never told you not to use certain things, he told you to use only the most effective things IF you want to be the best player. Otherwise, do whatever you want. But the catch is, don't dismiss a player who optimizes his approach. That's the entire point of the video and I see comment after comment literally skipping over the 80% of the video and not even just that, but skipping over the point of what he said there specifically.

[@yourunclejohn984]

@@doolioart3314 People complain because of people who sweat like that though. It takes away the fun and that’s why people don’t like it, it’s cheap, it’s sad, it’s annoying. But it’s the devs fault for not adding a comp mode. This dude is just wrong though, he’s defending people for sweating and ruining the casual fun experience for the vast majority of players who just wanna play normally and not have to play to get better to have a decent time.

[@gamermanzeake]

You lost me at: "Put down the Grenadier weapons..." Titanfall 2 gives you options. Those options are fun. Everyone and their mother, using the same gun, is boring. I have nearly never been bothered or upset at my losses, because winning isn't all that matters in life or in games. Truly toxic gamers, are the folks who sit in the matchmaking lobbies and cuss out their team, because they lost. That's pathetic. That's a real scrub.

[@kylewebster100]

in titanfall it's really fucking sad to be like that but in Apex Legends.. that's a genuine thing that happens.. that game is so toxic at predator play... i've come back to titanfall and i'm glad to actually enjoy games again.. however, i disagree with this video.. titanfall isn't a game where one should play to win as we'd all use Smart pistol, CAR smg and Tone.. and that shit is HELLA boring. kraber is waifu.

[@dunterriker3301]

If he lost you there you must have missed the part when he said that there’s nothing wrong with playing for fun and that you don’t HAVE to use the best options all the time or even ever.

[@doolioart3314]

You missed the point severely, because you somehow didn't hear why and when to drop grenadier weapons. You just heard what you wanted to hear in order to have an illegitimate frustration at an argument that was never made in the video. Did you even watched the video?

[@runfast4244]

No Frothy said if you want to do the best you can, use the best gear. He said to drop grenadiers if you want to do the best you could. He even said it’s ok to have fun so I don’t get this comment at all

[@maxwellmcgee7114]

Normally i would agree with you. But it starts to become bullshit when you lose every match because everyone has mastered the recoil control of the game and you stand no chance

[@ninjapirate47]

So the devotion is no longer "broken".... it's just advantageous. okie dokie.

[@FrothyOmen]

+CAPTAIN Deadpool it's been nerfed so many times it's not even that good anymore anyways. Set aside your past frustrations

[@ninjapirate47]

FrothyOmen My sole frustration with the devotion is hearing it's wind up sound every match on ps4... on my team and the other.

[@worldisdoomed9994]

@@ninjapirate47 Dread it Fear it Run from it The devotion still arrives

[@David_Z220]

Sitting in corners is not camping its outsmarting the enemy with tactical waiting.

[@David_Z220]

@Malum Are you dumb? you know what i said there was a joke sherlock

[@damienhailey118]

Where I grew up, "Scrub" had a slightly different meaning. To me, a Scrub *is* a person who goes for the Alternator, Devotion, and G2. And SMGs/LMGs in general. The difference is that they really are Meta-Slaves, who try to use these weapons in lieu of actual skill. In Marvel Vs. Capcom, these were the guys who picked Easy Mode, Wolverine/Spiderman(or sometimes Strider Hiryu), and button-mashed all day. I rather enjoyed crushing them with Captain America and Jin Saotome, and I wasn't even all that good. Like your definition, however, they don't *ever* improve. When they Devotion Camp, they'll keep doing it over and over, maybe even in the same spot(s), despite you killing them every single time they try.

[@bronerjamzzz2748]

Really broke my heart when you didn't say, "To me, a scrub is a guy who thinks he's fly... and is also known as a busta'."

[@saba7733]

So basically if i dont use kraber,i am fucking garbage,everytime i run volt kraber mains wont shut up in chat

[@jakecovert2528]

I main kraber and I have earned my clips. Rendy's G100 montage is staged As Fuck any T2 player with basic game knowledge knows no 3 people!!! is going to stand perfectly still to get 3 kills in a satisfying diagonal direction. Seriously tho I won't hesitate when a sweat lord busts out the Spit or the CAR and has a vendetta for the rest of the game against me yaknow. I don't feel bad when getting a multiple mega kills a game with the G2 or spitfire either. If i had to choose the class to begin with, I cant he held accountable for what imma do with it

[@saba7733]

@@jakecovert2528 exactly use What you want,you sent dumb for wanting to have the best tools to win

[@strawberrana]

"When everyone is super, no one will be!" -Syndrome

[@elias1579]

Lmao damn remember when people played video games to have fun.

[@chrisb5005]

Well, that's the main thing that's wrong with this video. Frothy doesn't realise that when new players get relentlessly stomped by veterans using CARs or Spitfires, it doesn't feel like a call to action so much as a slap in the face. Why should these players be forced to put down the weapons they enjoy using/like the look of in order to become the same sweaty try-hard that made their experience so unenjoyable?

[@GGwithkamatis]

Found the scrub! He's not playing to win. Shame him! /s

[@chrisb5005]

You know who else plays to win? Hackers.

[@holo_2709]

Exactly. I can make a analogy for Frothy. Boxers shouldn’t try to get good at the sport! No, no instead just take STEROIDS and knock everyone out in one punch. All those other boxers who learn tactics and workout naturally are SCRUBS. Honestly it’s funny how these same people who say “Well the SpitFire cloak is fun for me!” Get mad over a G.100 Kraber main using Holo pilot and Scorch.

[@joe1272]

@@holo_2709 I sense vaughny.

[@ItsCioffi]

You seem to have ignored that fact that abusing obviously overpowered weapons or game mechanics is overall bad for the community and bad for the game. It's no surprise that the player base of titanfall tanked or that you see people constantly leaving ctf or pvp lobbies. No one and I mean no one wants I deal with someone headglitxhing with an amped g2? Why because it's a clearly broken game mechanic and it's detrimental to the longevity of the game. Sure ion is good, but the gaming experience is ruined for the whole community when all you would see is team stacks of ronin and ion. I understand that everyone has their own fun factor but abusing the meta is overall a net loss of fun for everyone involved. It's a serious issue in so many shooters and definitely titanfall

[@sovietbear3024]

I agree but blaming that on the players that use them is like blaming a fever on the headache. If you want to fix something you need to go to the root of the problem. Constructive criticism of the developer/game itself as well as simply voting with your wallet can fix that issue.

[@graysonakel7459]

Elijah Reeds I agree but with titan fall that’s not the case considering respawn won’t be working on this game only apex

[@josephpeters49]

@@graysonakel7459 looks like you shouldn't play Titan fall and should stick to apex.. BYE

[@Keiinnn]

@@josephpeters49 hey buddy, how about you go crawl back into that trashcan upu came out of you tone R201 main

[@josephpeters49]

@@Keiinnn someone is butthurt.

[@gyroheadman]

You completely misunderstand the scrub mentality and Sirlin would probably laugh at you. The "scrub mentality" is not complaining about poor balance, it's calling weapons/tactics/characters/etc. that beat you unfair because you build a mental barrier around your ego and refuse to improve and counter those things. But when a tactic cannot be effectively countered by anything but copying that tactic, no matter what your skill level, that's just poor game design, not the scrub mentality. You can't just handwave terrible balance by saying that anybody who complains about it is a scrub. If I beat the greatest Street Fighter 5 player in the world by just throwing hadoukens from the corner for two sets, then the game needs fixing. Please learn what a scrub is.

[@royrogers3624]

Not really alot kf these things are just legitimately op take for instance the ucav in bf4 fast small mostly quiet near impossible to counter or atleast was until they nerfed it into irrelevancy

[@arsenic2821]

your not a scrub for hating this type of play, your a scrub if you hate this type of play and try not to find a way around it. I do think that there are times in the game where the balance is unfairly against you yes but even just having that mentality of helplessness can destroy a man's game. I do think that people should let new players have fun, but the top titan fall players got to where they are by using this method. Point is, the greatest unbalance is not the game but your mentality. Try not to blame it on anybody else unless you must, even if it is truly unfair. Owning up to your faults is the most important part of progressing as a player. Except the smart pistol, fuck the smart pistol

[@josephpeters49]

You all just completely let this shit go over your heads. And simply because you don't like being bested in a fps you rage and disagree.

[@TheKamasGod]

@@josephpeters49 for me its like this guy said in the video. It really doesn't matter if you're using meta or not, I factor in mostly a player's intent when using said weapons. If you're looking to grief, exploit or ruin a lobby to a point of a mass rage quit, anything toxic like that, that's when you have a bad situation.

[@NihongoWakannai]

Exactly. Fighting games are no stranger to banning things that are just OP and anti-competitive.

[@deltius]

guess what else gives you a higher chance of wins aimbot

[@tenpompanoe3466]

That's exactly what's wrong with this video

[@guyatanosavia8487]

His points specifically look at mechanics within a setting where everyone is given the same set of resources. Using aimbot is introducing a factor outside of the game. Oh wait.... *laughs in Tone and auto pistol*

[@farooqmohammed316]

@@guyatanosavia8487 Oh wait...... *laughs in Legion's Smort Core*

[@kylewebster100]

aimbot.. legit what a play to win mentality can lead to..

[@heskan]

I mean, ist just another way of achieving Victory so i guess...

[@motonate1585]

So basically the logic here is that using a crutch and not actually bettering yourself at a game is ok as long as you're winning. How pathetic.

[@IcchiNutz]

Good on ya

[@flyinglack]

Spitfire for the win!!!!!!! (Also the smart pistol) :P

[@NexusBladeGaming]

If it's fun for someone and they don't subscribe to your arbitrary standard of the "right way to play" They should play however they want, if you care that much about why people play games you are pathetic.

[@genericaccount9222]

It kinda works both ways. If you don’t try to adapt and counter their moves, you are not getting better at the game. If you use the crutch of calling them pathetic, and dismiss the issue as “their wrong I’m right” you’re not going to get better. You’re limiting yourself and accepting defeat if you think these kinda of players are better than you are.

[@Ryodakun]

You probably never played a game at its highest level have you?

[@rav3style]

I can beat tone, it doesn't mean it's fun playing against tone. The thing is when you run into games where people don't go into optimal meta things can be so much fun even if you lose.

[@theicequeen32]

rav3style exactly!! that's why Mastiffing an entire team is so fun because you put yourself at a disadvantage and you STILL outdid the enemy team. it's so satisfying lol

[@phuzzyb4048]

People still complain about Tone?

[@logicaltips4107]

Hayden M Tone is actually very predictable

[@rav3style]

Bungie Chief it is very predictable yes, it's problem is not that it's op, it's that it's annoying you can try and hide and he will still nail you without the need to aim.

[@Tiniestvoice]

I just charge in with 2 power shot close range Legion w/ boost. Lots of players get flustered with the ballsy move since I chose to go into a damage exchange standoff pushing Tone away from her shield...

[@TheRyderShotgunn]

this video is more or less based off the idea that "winning is fun", and while ill have to acknowledge that for some people, their entire metric for fun is if they won or lost, thats not how it works for me(and i assume quite a few others like me, though i dont want to act like im in the majority group because i dont actually know). to use your analogy of the wooden and aluminium bat, its not aluminium >>> wood, its more like that the wood and aluminium have their pros and cons. the aluminium is lighter and easier for someone of lighter physique to swing up to speed, but the wooden bat has the potential for more speed and power due to its weight but requires more muscle mass. and then along comes a machine that will always without fail hit every ball with its every swing and always get home runs. thats what it feels like for me. its not fun for people like me to play as that person or against that sort of person. its not fun for me to be taken to victory in a comfy vehicle or to bash my head against a wall. thats why i dont use "overpowered" weapons like the arc grenade or the devotion, but i dont use "underpowered" weapons, either, or at least, weapons i dont find fun to use,. my last few games were with the SMR and i did reasonably well being honest.

[@meowcat280]

Also, it's not fun to play baseball when the opponent's gloves catch their balls automatically. The all new "smart glove"

[@NihongoWakannai]

Exactly. tbh, I think that the people who can only get joy from a computer program telling them "good job" have some problems they need to work out. Competitive games are supposed to have fun, varied, and interesting competition, not just be a boring slog of the cheesiest strategies so that a game can tell you "you win!"

[@gamermanzeake]

Every last Grenadier weapon, are my greatest loves in Titanfall, even more so than Titans. The SMR is by far my favorite, and have you ever sat behind and amped wall, or with Amped weapons and shredded a Titan with the SMR? It's glorious! Let alone the fact that the guns in the Grenadier class, have extremely high risk high reward assets to them... That one who loves a challenge, will always enjoy. There is no challenge in the Eva, R101, or other overused weapons. (Notice how I didn't say overpowered.) I can delete you in one shot with the Charge rifle (which isn't even as good an offer as some of the Grenadier weapons) at any range, no Assault Rifle or sub can do that, and the shotguns have trouble performing those feats in their dictated ranges. Play the game for fun!

[@friendlyoldpieceofapoppedp711]

@@gamermanzeake i go EPG, frag, and pulse. it may be the worst loadout on Earth, but i still shred with it. sniping people in midair while you're going mach 5 is the most amazing people. the feeling of sticking someone with a pulse blade is so amazing.

[@sauvereaper6981]

i just tried FD when i first played and then tried MP. there was about 2 or 3 SP pilots for most of my games. i just wanted to try MP and half to most of the time i was dead. the one game i didn't have SP users was the the one i actually enjoyed, because i had a CHANCE to LEARN. since most of my matches had SP users, i stuck with FD for a while. i play MP more often now, but when i find there are too many Smart Pistols. i'll just play FD for the rest of the day.

[@slay_a_ton9430]

1:55 oh, I remember this...idk, makes my skin crawl He may be a scrub, but he was young

[@troglodyte4207]

Slay_A_Ton 94 No one should be bullying newbies like that. It’s a pathetic and shameful thing to do and is pure, unrefined neck beard toxicity

[@nwttp]

Just a bitch bullying or not. You'd think it was the little kid doing same move over and over... that's what I would do at 8 years old. "This is the real world!"

[@themanthemyth4522]

He couldn't even move and he got like two hits off

[@strawberrana]

"TIME TO LEARN" learn what? That you're an asshole?

[@knightwolf9553]

You talked about getting over a mountain, but I think it’s good to mention that throwing rocks at the people behind you is gonna help a lot less than actually giving them a hand.

[@MangoLassie142]

It's about the ease of the playstyle VS the difficulty of countering it. If you play in a way that is incredibly easy to do well with, but is very difficult for your enemy to counter, that's trashy.

[@Solawk]

According to Frothy's logic: Hmm, I'm getting rekt by those Alternators all the time. Let's sit down and analyze the situation. The situation is Alternator can not be countered at any range with any weapon if it's not ohk. Picking Kraber. Due to the "perfect" TF2 netcode bullets are going through the enemies while I'm still being meleed from 10 meters away. Half of the Cold War grenades deal no damage on a 1m splash. EPG deals 90 damage on a direct hit. Just gonna play BF4 with Hawk 12G because it actually counters the rank 140 AEKs.

[@aghitsaplane4262]

So i should play to win instead of having fun.Ya know fun, *WHAT I PAYED FOR*

[@seymourbrown4540]

wasn't the entire point "you can have fun but dont make fun of someone for playing to win"

[@refraggedbean]

@@seymourbrown4540 I mean tbh there are some situations where it really is worth blaming them, such as the recent rainbow six bug in its new event where you can literally make your self invisible and invincible and while this is divisive, bullet hole peeks (basically you create a one inch hole by firing a bullet through a wall and then watch through that the whole round, I know it's scrub mentality, but I actively choose to not use it because it's just too cheap and boring, and also most people that use said tactic are super toxic to anyone that didn't see their tiny ass hole from across the map), though mostly the first one (exploiting bugs)

[@stormrevenant]

Wanting to win is fun

[@doolioart3314]

Or miss the point, like you did.

[@yourunclejohn984]

@@seymourbrown4540 No, he literally said to play to win

[@vicvega5452]

had this on in the background, when i tuned back in halfway through frothy is telling me how to get a girlfriend and i almost forgot it was a titanfall vid

[@petervillent5573]

Being in scrub mentality and blaming enemy for tryharding is one thing, being matched constantly with whole teams using same loadout (Stim + Arc nade + alternator + smart pistol accompanied either by tone / ronin / monarch) is simply masochistic. Yes, I play for fun. I find fun in playing underpowered loadouts and competing with people watching streamers, trying to copy their playstyle and failing. I love my scorch. But is it really fun when whole game becomes meta sheeping? Seriously, lately I barely even play (PC player here) and when I do I quite often just quit the match as soon as I notice the same pre-made "scrubs" running with the said loadout (yes, PC community is so small I constantly am seeing the same names in my games). Trying to win and becoming better is one thing, abusing the tools that break the game code (Stim breaking hit registration) is another thing that is driving me away from the game.

[@lostsunrise5392]

titan brawl is a permanent mode in the next update

[@hyperwing5374]

Peter Villent I left many matches due to 1) I was not having any fun in the match, 2) I was already irratated from a previous match ex: spawn campers, 3) the team not helping guard the flag or hard point since they either don't see it or are actively ignoring it, 4) parties.

[@thestaja7453]

Peter Villent why include ronin? He is acually hard to play

[@yahelrobles2099]

Peter Villent not monarch nor ronin are easy to use

[@Enderfan7363]

How do you like being matched with at least three people playing CAR every game

[@Parker--]

The problem with this theory is that it leaves no room for objective criticism of the game or the players. By the logic put forth, you shouldn't blame other players for DDoSing, lag switching, jumping out of the map, or any other exploits or hacks as well. Further, it doesn't allow for questioning design decisions of the game, such as overpowered weapons and useless weapons as you are automatically replied to with a "git gud" or some other dismissive remark. There is such a thing as honor and general decency. That's what Western Civilization is built on; honor and morals and for the most part we generally stick to them. Without them no one can condemn criminal or immoral behavior, terrorism, pedophilia, etc. Being a decent sport is what sports should be about. The outlook presented here leaves no room for sporting behavior.

[@FrothyOmen]

+Parker this is why tournaments and organized competition has rules. The western civilization you're taking about had a long period of lawlessness where cheaters and scoundrels won. It wasn't until the government (developers) finally found their footing and brought order to the west that things started to become more fair for everyone.

[@Parker--]

Frothy, We did have a long period of lawlessness, but I thought we as a society were past that. Nor should we have to be in tournaments to lodge complaints and criticisms.

[@AsassinF]

Most of the examples you stated are against terms and conditions, the ones that are not are legal, so either complain endlessly or learn to counter them.

[@Parker--]

Or learn to better avoid being caught going against the ToS, as in get better hacks. Because by the logic put forth, you can't complain in the moment and it's debatable whether this logic allows complaints about cheaters in the past either.

[@AsassinF]

You report a cheater and/or leave the match. There is literally no other options available to you. Complaining about blatant cheating is not what this video was made to address. You wildly took it out of context and incorrectly projected the used logic into a foreign situation. That is akin to me saying that you should train to out run a motor vehicle, in response to you saying I shouldn't complain that you are hiking too quickly, because it is I who lacks the stamina.

[@splsh2531]

I have a problem with this, If players abuse op or scummy strategies that where not INTENDED to be in the game, it can severely boil down your options to maximum sweat and makes it less fun, and more punishing to play casually or add variety, I feel like you should be able to sweat with pretty much anything in titanfall (except 'smart' pistol) but in other games there are a lot of unintendedly ultra scummy plays that can be made. Which ruin the community.

[@noiz981998]

I'd like to hear you say this after someone stabs you to death while bowing with an estoc in Dark souls 3 multiplayer

[@rubencrawford8675]

I find recording my games to be very helpful, because then I actually see and analyse my mistakes

[@FrothyOmen]

+Ruben Crawford yes this is a fantastic way of improving your play and I'll be talking about it soon

[@guy3nder529]

I didn't think about it but I will try. Thank you.

[@tonoshikikai]

While I mostly agree with this video, the problem is when everyone equips themselves with the tools that are most likely to achieve victory in a game with balance issues it leads to homogenization of gameplay. Player loadouts and kits become pointless for customization if everyone ends up just using the same thing anyway.

[@infrared6973]

The problem with titanfall is people only ever use about 6 or 7 guns and u get lots of bullet stacking titans which leads to obvious problems on the battlefield. Trying to use anything other than those 6 weapons puts you at a significant disadvantage which frothy has stated many times and thats the problem. Hitting laser shots with ion or hitting railgun shots is far more difficult than using tone or monarch and even a bad ronin can make use of ronin which is why u see so many of them. My only complaint about this game has really always been the balance issues and the fact that most maps are huge which only exacerbates those problems. This is a game about movement and all too often titans and pilots dont move which is why i love maps like glitch dry dock and relic because people cant stand around on those maps with their edges to the back of the map and succeed as much as they can on other maps. Titanfall 2 would have been so much better with more small to medium sized maps.

[@kryptie7259]

It's not a sport it's a game. In a game you're supposed have fun. If you're just gonna use the same weapon because its powerful no one has fun. It's not about winning its about having fun. And not JUST you having fun, everyone else deserves to have fun in a GAME. If you just do whatever it takes to win you're forgetting it's a game and you shouldn't need to win all the time to have fun. Just the fact that you call someone a scrub just shows you dont have a life outside of games and your perception of reality all revolves around how good you are at a game. The problem IS people who use the same gun, camp, play Tone, and smart pistol because they only care about themselves because they dont know how to have fun without winning. Like seriously I'm not gonna take any sweaty tryhard who genuinely takes playing a video game seriously based solely on the fact of doing whatever it takes to win. Fuck your "scrub mentality" and think about other people who have better things to do than bE tHe BeSt GaMeR, they paid for the game just like you and deserve to have fun without some nerdneck who's only validation is how many kills he gets in a video game. Fuck around and have fun. Find something to better to do than sweat on titanfall

[@flyinglack]

fun is relative, from my experience using the spitfire with the cloak is fun for me.

[@Wylie288]

You realize sports are games right?

[@kryptie7259]

@@Wylie288 Professional sports aren't the same as casual sports same as how Professional games aren't the same as casual games. People play casual for a reason dude

[@Wylie288]

@@kryptie7259 Well at least you aren't entirely stupid. I correct you and you seemed to understand your mistake immediately. Even if you still try to hide the fact that you mad it XD. Good job actually.

[@eduardogodoy2133]

This is one of the most retarded statements i've ever had the pleasure to witness

[@stewartclemens1662]

Titanfall 2 shares it's initials with Team Fortress 2 Titanfall has the Tone and Team Fortress has the Sydney Sleeper Does the scrub mentality infect games through initials?

[@GrimdarkCrusader20th]

Nah, many games have a varying degrees of scrub mentality, look at siege, CoD, BF2, and Battlefield.

[@porterburkett819]

I'm still not letting go of my EPG, and I will still be annoyed by G2s and smart pistols, but I will (try) not (to) hate anyone for using something good.

[@izekhowell9392]

I love the feeling of beating people when I know they have the advantage over me by using better equipment

[@gibhib]

What would happen if a weapon that would literally be impossible to counter came into the game? What would you say then? Would you just tell people to "git gud" and start using nothing but that weapon, even though it's not fun to use? I hate people that tell me I'm wrong for disliking an OP weapon because I cannot counter it without using said OP weapon. A game should be balanced, every weapon should have pros and cons that give everyone a fair chance of beating someone else, and nobody should be called a scrub because someone is using a weapon that is not as good as a weapon that is an OP shit show.

[@FrothyOmen]

You literally just don't play the game at the point. If the developers don't care about balancing a clear problem in their game, you shouldn't care about the game. It's not under your control to fix, and it's certainly not worth getting angry over. There are more important things in life. You are upsetting yourself over a hypothetical that does not happen anymore.

[@ColossalKaiju]

@@FrothyOmen I know this is a year old, and you probably don't give a crap about this anymore, but I feel like you aren't seeing his point. I completely agree with this comment and it seems to me like you read 2 sentences and blindly wrote this reply. I like your videos but the way you're replying to comments that give you genuine criticism is disgusting.

[@doolioart3314]

@@ColossalKaiju But that's because a staggering amount of people can't grasp a simple concept that he even took too long to explain in the video. I casually scrolled through the comments and it was physically nauseating. I mean, literally every single argument against the notion stems from not understanding the notion. And that's not a subjective assessment, it's true. In this instance, for example, the OP is talking about something different - game balance. Advocating for game balance and complaining about bad balance doesn't mean you're a scrub. Different notions. His answer is spot on, because when you enter a game, you acknowledge its current state (you don't have to agree with it, but you have to acknowledge it because it's there). If you don't want that, then your only option is to 1-play the game and get incredibly frustrated because there's a discrepancy between your wishes and reality and 2-don't play the game. In other words, OP's point isn't in disagreement with the video. For example: "I hate people that tell me I'm wrong for disliking an OP weapon" - this isn't the issue, everyone will dislike that weapon. Not the point of the video. "a game should be balanced" - yes, no one disagrees with that. etc. The OP misses the point of what scrub mentality is and after seeing dozens of comments like those, I feel like exhausted. Whcih means that the creator of the video must be half dead. Let's not get extremist on one part because we emotionally support something. The point of the video doesn't clash with OP's sentiments, yet OP didn't understand what scrub mentality is. That is taxing for the video creator who was explaining scrub mentality in the video. For example, you write how you agree with his comment. Which is fine, but that doesn't change the point of the video, because the comment sits sideways to the notion of the scrub mentality.

[@Loregamorl]

I think the whole problem with playing a game to win is that it suddenly becomes not exactly fair like… The best games I had weren’t ones where I crushed someone or got crushed, it’s when it was super close, both teams being creative, both teams using interesting strategies But the ones where my team or the enemy team won without contest were just horrid

[@willwym]

I don’t sweat every game, I’m not even that good but if someone lets say, grapple pilot is in a match with... cloak pilot. Cloak pilot loves winning games and craves competition which is why he plays games in the first place. Grapple pilot has fun by fucking around and doing whatever he wants in games. Cloak had no reason to stop doing what he loves so grapple can have fun. If you don’t like stomping or getting stomped then what can you do? Complain, ask people to stop? Don’t bother because nobody plays games to roll over and let someone else have fun

[@nazariel5765]

I understand your point of view, but here's something, I only play games for having *fun* (Because that should be the only purpose of video games) and when everyone and their mother uses the meta way of playing, even if you know how to counter it, everyone uses it, so you'll only have to counter ONE thing which in my opignon gets very boring. And with the 'Don't forbid them to have THEIR own kind of fun', by using boring ways to win only for the sake of winning all their games, aren't they forbiding MY own kind of fun ? (As in, using weapons/titans that are fun to play with and not giving a shit about being a good or bad player)

[@DrakeofStorms]

I totally get you, it can be very frustrating, but this is a case of "hate the game", not the player. Its the dev's fault for placing the annoying stuff there, and you can't expect people to play the way *you* find fun. "What is fun" is relative and the other players are playing for their fun, not yours. If you find it annoying, please, *do* complain about it where the devs can read it, you'll be helping the game. But don't blame players for not playing the way you want.

[@josephpeters49]

Because that should be the only purpose.... look at this dumbass.

[@hakes98]

@@DrakeofStorms I'll hate the game and the player thank you.

[@tenpompanoe3466]

@@josephpeters49 yeah... that's the only point of video games and always has been and always will be

[@phoenixgoose8844]

Joseph P why are you raging at every fucking comment on this video?

[@thisperson345]

Ok but if I see someone camping with cloak and a spitfire I'm not gonna say "holy shit what a good player" but if someone slingshots past me and kills me with a Kraber I'm gonna be impressed Using an overpowered bullshit playstyle doesn't make you good at the game especially when someone can easily double your score with an actually balanced weapon because they're actually good at the game

[@mifthemedic7307]

Yep take the spitfire away from them and they ain’t shit

[@bulletnotloaded3586]

If the enemy is using what's powerful to give them the best chance of winning, as long as they're using *intended* features, then they can use it all they want. If I have a bad time because they're using an effective strategy to win, then I'm always gonna blame the developers who gave them the power to do that. I absolutely never blame a person for using something the devs gave them the power to do. But if they're using *unintended* features to gain an advantage, they're an asshole.

[@heskan]

exactly

[@jaahcraft]

Mif the Medic exactly

[@bulletnotloaded3586]

@@mifthemedic7307 But they have the spitfire..

[@RassiArt]

i remember I had match were I used a Kraber and two of the enemy team was also using the Kraber and it was so much fun. these are the can of matches I want

[@bagelmanman2937]

Honestly pal I’d rather have fun with an smr or softball because I simply don’t care if I win or not, the amount of times you’re impressed by a guy with a car is never above zero but if someone kills me with a Cold War or epg holy shit man. Honestly saying hate the game not the player is a dumb excuse for the guy who only uses what’s best for him instead of leaving his comfort zone and experiencing what’s truly fun

[@IcchiNutz]

Good for you

[@flyinglack]

fun is relative, sometimes people like simpler easy to use stuff.

[@yowhatspoppin3597]

Oh boy, found the triggered kid. Listen here. Its absolutely fine to stomp people with a car, especially if its unintentional because it's not your fault that it has zero recoil and has high fire rate. It's the games fault for not adding a ranked match,

[@ivanivanovic5857]

just saying, the devotion was a massive problem and it was extremely difficult to beat 90% of the time, no matter how good you were.

[@FrothyOmen]

+Thomas Not Tom yes and that's why it has been nerfed so many times. Developers saw a problem and dealt with it. Players who played the gun pre-nerf were correct in taking it because it was insane.

[@ivanivanovic5857]

FrothyOmen I agree that you shouldn't rage at people for using op things, however that goes up to a point. I don't want to switch to the G2 just so that I can defend myself from one devotion camper.

[@AsassinF]

It doesnt go to a point though, if its in the game they can use it. Who are you to tell them how they can play their game?

[@jonatan0_0]

Thomas Not Tom 100% disagree. But using devotion is a scrub move ;)

[@ivanivanovic5857]

Jonatan 0_0 yeah

[@wyldfire888]

So, you're saying that if a Smart Pistol existed that would let you kill in one headshot, everyone is justified for using it? Things like that are what suck the fun out of a game. I get trying to be competetive, but if someone is (ab)using a clearly broken weapon/tactic - such as currently the melee in TF2 - it's not wrong for a player to roll their eyes at them and get annoyed at the level of ease with which they completely nullify the opponent's skill at the game by pressing a single button.

[@FrothyOmen]

+malusdominus yes! It's not the players who are wrong in that (ridiculous) case, it's the developers.

[@theicequeen32]

FrothyOmen LOL this is true

[@hoxton_hummingbird]

FrothyOmen so i should rather quit the game then if i think everyone should have fun and games should be balanced?

[@jesseclark7105]

The melee is broken?? How can you break a feature that requires an enemy to be less than two feet away when you have a gun? If you get melee'd from the front, that's your own darn fault for being unable to gun down an enemy before they get that close, and if you get melee'd from behind/the side, that player already had an advantage and could have just shot you/blown you up/set you on fire/etc. If you let someone get close enough to punch you in the face, especially considering the range and TTK of the weapons in TF2, they've earned the kill.

[@PositronCannon]

The main problem with melee is its interaction with latency, which Tf2 tends to have quite a bit of thanks to its netcode and server infrastructure. Guns don't suffer from it as much since most of them don't kill instantly and require more input than just a press of a button, while getting melee lunged by a guy who just came around the corner and wasn't even visible for enough time to react comes down almost entirely to latency.

[@keegangates5073]

Ok so let's make a comparison. Video games and sports: both use a set of players, with (usually) two teams who compete with each other using pre-determined rules to score a win condition. With your mentality, we should be able to use anything found in the universe to win the game. However, this is not the case when it comes to sports. Things such as steroids, firearms, and intentionally inflicting harm to other players is prohibited. Even in sports such as American football-mask grabbing is frowned upon and can get you penalized. Much like an overpowered setup in a game getting nerfed. While it is totally possible to grab and throw another player, it is considered dishonorable, disrespectful, and dirty. The same thing goes for the Stim Alternator Arc grenade Combo (SAAC for future reference). While it is totally possible to use this, it is frowned upon and will eventually be penalized by the developers. Just like the hemlock and devotion. All in all, you made a poor argument when it comes to game balance. It is a game, a digital sport. Not a battlefield. If you cannot treat other players with respect and fair play, then you have no place here.

[@xAckarax]

"welcome to the real world!!!" Evil AF

[@TheCaptainMan]

So i should only use phase shift + r-97?

[@EpicImports]

TheCaptainMan No you should use A-wall with the G2

[@TheCaptainMan]

Well i don't know, i think it also depends the enemies cause with an awall you have to wait for them instead of coming to the enemies and potentially get more kils

[@EpicImports]

TheCaptainMan Yes it's really up to personal playstyle, but if you want to piss people off G2 and a wall is another option lol. I don't care how people play though since mastering the movement style is how you beat the lobby. And i prefer to fight against campers since it's a guaranteed good match for me. Easier to kill them vs guys that never stop moving. And phase shifters going ham is pretty anoying or guys that can grapple hook/airstrafe everywhere.

[@FrothyOmen]

+TheCaptainMan not what I said

[@reyzephlyn105]

Benjamin Ruzicka But isn't joining the meta the most logical and most productive thing to do?

[@mctankies]

I laughed so hard when he said, "WhalecuM tO tHe ReAl WOrld!"

[@strokernut]

I don't see a lot of gaming channels reference psychology. Respect, Frothy.

[@a-sea-of-salad5040]

Yeah cause they don’t have to pathetically defend their precious tone like this asshole

[@strokernut]

@@a-sea-of-salad5040 Jeez, what's your problem? Why do you jerks feel the need to relentlessly hate on Tone? What did the fictional robot mech ever do to you?

[@anonymouscrab2013]

I feel like Jimmy took that pretty well tbh

[@swxqt6826]

(Tense1983 has entered the chat)

[@overmind06]

Oh man i finally have an official excuse to go full on beast mode with CAR, a smart pistol and Tone! I'll also reply to everyone with 'git gud' and 'stfu scrub' when i get pointed at my loadout! Oh, I also should not forget to say 'ez game' at the end of every match. Thanks frothy!

[@wrath6606]

overmind06 G2a5 time baby with my shiny gen 30 -northstar- Tone

[@josephpeters49]

What a pussy ass comment.

[@troglodyte4207]

Before I used to have fun, now I win. Thanks frothy

[@josephpeters49]

@@troglodyte4207 no one told you to stop having fun... you took a video telling people to stop complaining and work around the meta and turned it into a reason for you to bitch even more.

[@leoriginal4762]

FewTo Respect bro i believe you might have misinterpreted what these people meant. They are simply stating out how this video kind of “deffends” those type of players and encourages them to keep playing that way because it helps them to “win”. And they expressed this using a form of sarcasm. Relax a bit bud. This is just the youtube comment section lol.

[@StompinPaul]

I appreciate that you included the bit saying that sometimes it's fun to just mess around, and people shouldn't be condemned for doing that. Because the flip side of this is people who think you're an idiot and should uninstall the game for not using the most optimal strategy and equipment all the time. I kinda get the core idea, and I agree to an extent. I any competently made game, any given approach is going to have some way to beat it, and it's always more productive to work towards a solution than to complain about a problem and demand that people accommodate your playstyle. Where I disagree with the concept then, is that it's always on the player when they lose. Often it will be. However, just because it's not a player's fault for picking a particular strategy that beats another player's, doesn't mean there isn't a problem with the strategy. "It's in the game, and therefor it's perfectly fine to do" doesn't always hold. Exploits for example, are parts of the game and give a player a huge advantage for using them. You'd be a fool not to take advantage of them, right? And yet bans are routinely given out for knowingly using exploits. Or you could have something where the game's design or parts of it are not the best. You could end up with a strategy that has a counter, but the counter is very hard to execute, much harder than the strategy itself. At high levels of play, everyone of course knows the game well enough for this not to be a problem. But at lower levels, the player base can be hurt because newer players run into a strategy that they can't counter (it's counterable, but at that level people lack the skills generally), and while a few will decide to suffer through the game long enough to learn the counter, most will just move on to something more fun. And while in this case I wouldn't say it's a player's fault for taking advantage of such a strategy, nor is it really their responsibility to manage the game's population, just because a strategy works and has a counter doesn't mean it's a healthy part of the game. What I worry about with this attitude, is that it encourages people just accept some, potentially crippling problems in a game as perfectly okay. It conflates what is with what ought to be.

[@titancat9494]

StompinPaul I agree

[@brogr5464]

Basically, frothy just blamed the person suffering to these exploits instead of the people using them. I COMPLETELY disagree with his whole video because it's just his excuse to abuse exploits by pushing the blame onto the people who disagree with them by telling them to just "git gud" and "work around it" You can't work around a smart pistol, Frothy, you fucked up there.

[@markalvarado7884]

frothy: don't complain on a guy who camps out and constantly kills you. he's using a playstile that works for him. heres a guy who directly contradicts that statement: kzbin.info/www/bejne/sJOaZoGiiriMiKs 0:09

[@RjGoombes]

That guy you linked is also either a major tool or an awful troll

[@sadstarfish7]

Sounds like something a smart pistol main would say

[@Subject00147]

"these players have left their mental blocks behind" I.e. - they've lost all their honour, and will do whatever it takes to win.

[@Kinessmata-Akkadian]

"They've lost all their honour, and will do whatever it takes to win." I definitely know how that feels, just look up GTAONLINE tryhards, and you see for yourself. It's so cancerous that there are people who consider themselves "GTAONLINE gods" for being the biggest and best at tryharding. I'm talking full blown "You're doing some menial work for a couple hundred thousand dollars, just you in the lobby. Two minutes later, it's the equivalent of being a random civilian in the Micheal Bay Transformers movies, and you can't do shit about it except leave and question why people always have to be douchebags to you for no reason, and secretly begin to eventually learn how to mod or hack so you can either boot off everyone that might be a potential threat, or just make yourself invincible.

[@TheRealGears]

This is what separates the tryhards from the pros.

[@scytherind8928]

Subject 00-147 one could argue that the concept of honor is misplaced on a virtual battlefield and if you play by that it is your fault for putting yourself at a disadvantage. I agree with you though ..... Fuck Tone

[@josephpeters49]

Imagine this bitch mentality on a real battlefield. Actually being mad that someone in war used an OP weapon... imagine being that stupid that you would actually put yourself at a disadvantage AND to play the victim...

[@hjalleson5705]

FewTo Respect look up the Geneve convention...

[@spo0kers233]

"I'm not super confident in my abilities in a lot of the games I play" "My skills in Titanfall speak for themselves" Lel

[@FrothyOmen]

+Spo 0kers those things are not contradictory. Obviously I have a bit of talent in this game. I am not confident I'm one of the "greats" but you are free to judge me however you see fit.

[@spo0kers233]

FrothyOmen I'm not judging at all I loved the video, I just like stirring the pot a little

[@akimbo2532]

I’m actually very moved. After watching this video I’ve realized that instead of getting mad at spitfire campers for being “Toxic” and “No skill players”, I just shrug it off, learn from it and learn to counter it as the opponent’s best ability for victory.

[@colbystarr1744]

Does this mean I have to forgive all the people running around with smart-pistol?

[@swxqt6826]

Yes

[@strawberrana]

No, they don't deserve forgiveness

[@swxqt6826]

@CJGamr01 I mean, you don’t have to use it, but since using it is a viable strategy, hating on people for using it is a dumbass move.

[@Jack931]

So sense you say just use the tools in the game everyone should just camp rooftops with the devotion sense that's the best strategy

[@strawberrana]

since

[@zarryc1687]

It's unreasonable to expect people not to use the best gun or the best whatever. A lot of people enjoy winning and they'll make use of everything that gives them the edge. While I myself am guilty of getting mad at these players sometimes, they cannot be blamed. Only the developer is responsible for adding broken weapons or game mechanics into the game and not balancing them properly. The only way to make people stop abusing broken game mechanics, is not giving them anything to abuse in the first place.

[@hoxton_hummingbird]

Zar ryc Problem is that any recent updates haven't in a slightest brought balance to the gun meta yet..

[@jesseclark7105]

TheZampa Give them time. Everyone and their grandma complained about the pulse blade + map hack strategy and Respawn nerfed them. I barely see it used at all anymore. Respawn gives a crap about their community, and it'll be addressed in time.

[@Adoochi]

Zar ryc Couldn't agree more

[@SpartanK4102]

Zar ryc I agree. I love Respawn, but they really screwed up balancing in this game. It's still a fun game overall, but it has it's frustrating moments.

[@sinofdusk3]

Fully agreed. Its not up to the players to deem what is fair or unfair, even developers saying it does not mean anything. Only when it is patched, then we know the intentions of the devs. Even so, using that said overpowered strategy is and was always fair, even after the devs patched and fixed it

[@scream5122]

Your rock climbing analogy is flawed, in my opinion. A climber who climbs without equipment is objectively better than one who can only climb with equipment. A player who uses the G2 as opposed to the Kraber is a worse player, because they are limiting themselves. A weight-lifter, for example, who benches 15 pounds is a worse one than one who benches 150 because they aren't improving. A player who gets less kills with the Kraber is a better player than someone who gets more kills with the G2 because you cannot win harder. You win a gunfight or you lose it. You can't win 101% of the time. The only way to truly (and relentlessly) improve is to seek greater challenges to grow from, not to seek to win harder. The G2 will win you gunfights, but you cannot improve beyond winning. A weight-lifter can only grow much from lifting larger and larger weights, just like a player can only improve by using higher and higher skill cap weapons.

[@BearLovesAll]

FACTS. Thank you for saying this.

[@Ryu459]

Soooooo, lets all start using the devotion

[@laptopgladiator4078]

I'm that type of guy that uses nothing but grenadier weapons or a mastiff, and scorch if I ever play a gamemode that includes titans.

[@danbo8191]

Not trying to be confrontational or anything, but in your latest Tier List video you put the Smart Pistol in S-tier while complaining about seeing it being used in Multiplayer. This always struck me as being a bit "scrubby". Just an example of how even the most experienced players can suffer from this mentality at times. Nice video.

[@FrothyOmen]

+danbo it removes the necessity of a fundamental part of first person shooters. It is by design a broken, fucked up gun that's not intended to be balanced. Nobody is immune to having a scrubby mindset.

[@Headchrusherdeth]

Yeah but it's a boost, much like how smart core is a core, and tactical visor's an ult, etc etc. I don't get the hate omen honestly...

[@danbo8191]

By the same token, hanging out on a rooftop with an A-Wall and a devotion or whatever is obviating the "mobility" fundamental of Titanfall. My opinion about multiplayer games is: I use what I want, you use what you want, and if I'm losing, I will either counter you or die trying. Developers should only step in to rebalance things ("nerf/buff/remove X!!!" is the mating cry of the modern scrub) in case of a dire emergency.

[@PositronCannon]

>Developers should only step in to rebalance things ("nerf/buff/remove X!!!" is the mating cry of the modern scrub) in case of a dire emergency. This implies that game balance is "perfect" more often than not, which doesn't have to be the case (and generally isn't). I think it's important to make a distinction between hating on other players for using/doing X (being a scrub) and asking for better balance in the game. Claiming that the latter equals being a scrub isn't healthy for the game or for the community.

[@BrandiPrime]

You're sort of replacing the time to kill via aiming with a time to kill for waiting for 3 lock-ons with the smart pistol vs a pilot. I'm positive that there's weapons that kill faster than the smart pistol can lock if that player is accurate, it happens. So the smart pistol user is sacrificing the potentially faster TTK by just aiming and shooting it with not having to worry about aiming at all. It actually seems pretty fair.

[@tuxido4913]

Ah yes, because the smart pistol, the Spitfire and pilot sentry are just 'advantageous'!

[@Welsh7133]

“UhHh ThiS Is ThE rEaL WOrlD”

[@Marthyboy88]

Coming back to this video in 2021 and still seeing people complain about tone. Gitgud. Tone isn't even the 3rd best Titan.

[@thanus6636]

2:15 I feel that this guy was unnecessarily toxic. Like wtf you yelling at a kid.

[@sway9935]

Id rather lose with a gun that is fun and takes skill than win with a gun that makes enemies not like the game anymore

[@rudemajesty]

So you are telling me that a can't blame other players for using the weapon that can 4 shot you (not in the head) and have almost 100 bullets, use a pistol that basically gives you aimbot but most importantly you said that papa scorch isn't good

[@THEAETIK]

I've been called a [F3] shitter for killing some guy too much with the R-97. I actually got to see his perspective after asking "What exactly is a F3 shitter" and he said in response that your / our network is strongly into abusing the currently powerful meta. I'm not super proud of the state of this weapon and I know how frustrating it can be, but I'd rather see the dev balance targeted than player being called out for using something that's in the game.

[@josephpeters49]

This is the mentality most people should have had but apparently most titanfall fans two years ago were straight bitches. "Don't hate the player hate the game" and clearly from this video they hated frothy.

[@maximumcarnage1381]

I have to respectfully disagree on this one, not so sure this argument is entirely valid. While I agree giving people shit in general is wrong I don't believe this "meta is ok" mentality aligns with frothy's previous content. He does mention that he's guilty of some scrubby practices, but don't you think that devalues the sentiments put forward? Even if just slightly? There's always the do as I say not as I do comment to fall back on but that makes it sound pretentious. I feel while frothy meant for this video to help the community it just comes across as preachy and honestly doesn't properly apply (for example some people are just sore losers and will blame other things regardless of their skill level), and that rock climber comparison really makes no sense, sure there are some mountains you could technically climb without aid if you're almost superhuman, but in the overwhelming majority the gear is the only thing making the climb possible. Everything in most modern semi-balanced games from characters to weapons are usable to the point of victory, its not like tone was the only way you could ever win in a titan duel. I do like frothy though and this is in no way meant as an insult to him personally I just disagree with him on this specific point and I feel its slightly hypocritical to admit to having the faults put forward in this video whilst at the same time condemning them.

[@gravity00x]

Cheers. Same thoughts here.

[@josephpeters49]

You both are dumb

[@holo_2709]

No,we are just looking at the issues with this argument as a whole. But by all means, go back to spitfire cloaking.

[@drawwithgusgus]

Interesting discussion. I have never took video games seriously or "competitively", so I don't relate to the mentality of playing to optimise your chances of winning. However, I have realised over time that people don't always (rarely) have fun the way I do. In shooters, I just like running around shooting people, having a couple cool moments while chatting with my friends, maybe 1v1 them in weird ways like in the BO2 days... but my perspective is not everyone's perspective, and I think that what you said about reflecting on yourself and adapting (if what you cant is winning) is a really good takeaway. I don't share your perspective on gaming, I haven't even gamed a lot in the past six months or so, but I do enjoy the moral of being respectful and wanting to improve one step at a time, even if I don't take it to video games in particular. I don't even know why I'm leaving this comment even thought nobody is ever gonna read it, just thought it was a good discussion to have. But that does not mean that I will stop hating on monarch. Or on Team Fortress 2's scorch shot. Or on the C4 in BO2, this one still gives me nightmares

[@justsomeguy8385]

Fighting games are definitely not more simple than a shooter. There is a ridiculous amount of depth beneath the surface.

[@Borderline_Psycho]

Use the gear that best suits your playstyle. If someone else is curbstomping you. Then find an alternative way to deal with them. Be it finding a flanking route or disrupting their playstyle. Don't force yourself to use underpowered gear if it dosen't fit your playstyle. For example I love to use Scorch not because he is underpowered but because he is the only titan I excel with. The nice thing about Titanfall is that there are so many options to outmaneuver your opponents. Be it flying high with a grenade launcher or carefully switching up positions with a sniper. Hell even using a well placed blade to quickly identify any threats when rushing in. For Stim and Grapple users consider using electric smoke to smoke out popular camping spot or disrupting long sightlines.

[@Xxgunmanx]

The real problem with this is that the Scrub Mentality is perfectly valid when it reduces the variety in the game. If you play titanfall 2 optimally you will either be running the same loadout which counters the meta or you will be running the meta. No other options. Its just player skill vs equipment making the difference it happens in tons of games. If there is a piece of equipment that comes out on top 95% of the time it feels bad to play the game because its all you see and all you can use or you get stomped. Titanfall 2 does a good job making everything useful in a certain scenario but the fighting clip you showed at the start of the game is an example of when one thing is better than every other tool in either players arsenal and player skill ends up being wiped out entirely.

[@burlierearth7]

Im usually not that upset about losing on my own but when I’m with my friends I feel like I have to impress them, making me get the scrub mentality, I have recently been practicing ignoring it and I think I am becoming a better person, this video is very helpful!

[@belugawhale8128]

I agree with about half of this video. I don't think players should put down the stuff they enjoy using and pick up the "op" stuff to win. I do agree however, that players should work around their opponent and counter their strategies in order to win. This mentality of "I'm bad for losing" had encouraged me to step up and train against the problems I have. In For Honor, I used to always lose to kensei sidestep spam, yet now I parry that attack 100% of the time, becuase I saw that I was losing to it, then went into training and actually practiced parrying the move instead of going on Reddit and complaining about it. So I thank you frothy, for making this video and helping me become better

[@firefraction8156]

But scorch is a good Titan :( ...kappa

[@rssdhfhsu8]

FireFraction that part hurt me aswell ;-;

[@Gitbitty]

FireFraction I don't care if scorch sucks the reason why I use him is because in my opinion he's just cool I like his design and voice its nice to see him and hear him he's just an awesome titan even if hes underpowered I'm gonna play as scorch forever

[@EpicImports]

Solid Fox117 Gaming "Good luck" General pepper voice

[@theicequeen32]

FireFraction last 5 games of lts went perfect with him. I don't know what frothys talking about. I guess some people just have it... and others don't 😎

[@freddycastro7967]

The Ice Queen he is underpowered. He does less damage than all the other titans. they can easily out maneuver the fire shield. only real damage from him is his flame core and canisters

[@firstnamelastname5230]

I agree that players should learn how to counter strategies against newer players; If a new player encounters a tone, they’ll probably be completely stomped with either the 40mm tank shell or barrage of rockets, but a more experienced player could easily turn the tide by either using tone’s counters (Ion, Scorch and Ronin) or through good positioning. Even a new player could rely on their teammates to distract the tone so they can use those strategies in a safer environment (assuming it’s just one single tone main). I just don’t think that every strategy is fair and balanced (just look at poor jimmy, the only way they could have countered it would be dumb luck due to the hitstun, and dweebstreamer69 just had to press the same button over and over again to keep up that barrage.) Titanfall 2 can definitely have unbalanced strats (*cough cough* A wall spitfire *cough cough* smart pistol) yet the benefit of TF/2, compared to mortal kombat, is that the player can outmaneuver or outright ignore a player using cheesy unbalanced strats. A fast af player that’s a crack shot with a one-hit-kill weapon could send any camper crying, but not every pub game has an epg crackshot on IRL stim. A new player’s education on A-Wall pwning 101 would be based solely on lucky breaks rather than experience, and they’ll either turn tail and run back to Call of Fieldfront 1,047 or eventually learn effective counters through outside help and slowly turn the tide. One option allows the player to improve tenfold and would make them a far better player, but the former is easier and less aggravating. In summary, I agree that players should learn their counters, but there are strategies that take more effort to counter than it’s worth.

[@funbrothers3053]

I'm wondering if i should aim down the sights of a weapons cause i think it's the reason i get killed all the time. it's just the way i'm used to playing.

[@natek5144]

looking forward to more videos on this subject!! super interesting!

[@MangoLassie142]

I don't think there's any problem using stronger weapons/mechanics, BUT the ration of Skill:Strength is important. Using a VERY little skill to using the Smart Pistol, literally just point, wait, shoot. Killing with the Mastif, Kraber or a shitty Grenadier weapon though relies far more on your skill than the strength of the weapon.

[@dongola6399]

Wait, scorch is bad? Genuine question, I've been using him since day one and I always perform better with him than other titans (I play on controller, so it might be different using a mouse being more accurate with tone, legion, or Jon

[@williammccall4724]

This video has actually really helped me and a lot of others, a few other competitive Xbox players and I have started to call each other out when one starts complaining. For example when a g2 player sitting on a head glitch kills me and I start ranting all my buddies join in and just say "scrub mentality."

[@FrothyOmen]

Yup, it's all defeatable in your mind. Tilting is the last thing you want to have happen. Glad you got some value out of this.

[@Assassin21BEKA]

Bunny hoping is so hard to use for me because it requres me to hold crouch button and not pressing w - the opposite of what i am used doing.

[@lotel5865]

What you are saying here is equivalent to "All the dodgy and gray things that companies do are completely fine! They're being anti-consumer but well it's not illegal and they are doing it for making money so who cares"... Replace the 'gray operations" with "a cqb-oriented SMG with a high fitting rate which also has almost zero recoil and ridiculous long-range dmg output"

[@FrothyOmen]

+mona sphemy Yeah, it's the job of government to stop it from happening. Just like in a video game tournament its the job of admins to enforce rules and bans.

[@lotel5865]

FrothyOmen Yes it's the government's job to fix it not the players', but it doesn't justify people abusing the flaws.

[@lappi2321]

FrothyOmen yes but only 2% of players are in competitive

[@suckanegg5501]

damn bro i just dont like getting lobbystomped by a g100 who uses exclusively car and stim

[@marekcmonster1937]

I don't think everyone with the spitfire and smart pistol are bad players, I think there bad people

[@charliebodman9217]

The weird thing is when I switch to the "best" guns I do worse. I do worse with tone than I do with scorch. I do worse with the carbine than I do with the flatline. Does anyone know why this would happen?