The Secret Power Struggle Threatening US Soccer

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The US Open Cup is the oldest footballing competition in the United States. Major League Soccer has decided to enter only 8 professional teams. Why has MLS decided to distance themselves from this historic competition?
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[@mikehunt5637]

It is kind of ironic that the competition that is named after one of two men who kept MLS from dissolving is being dissed by the league that he saved.

[@jayh3283]

Not really. Lamar Hunt was not deserving of the competition being named after him because the first two leagues he create such as the NASL did not participate in it. The clubs that would later go on to help form USL carried the competition.

[@mikehunt5637]

@@jayh3283 I disagree. To judge Hunt's present on his past is disingenuous. The truth is that the USOC never mattered to the average American soccer fan until MLS came along, with the exception of the very early days of US soccer. Regardless, the competition is named after him because of his contributions to US soccer, which is undeniable, and why the US Soccer Federation changed the name of the USOC in his honor.

[@realbc7]

US Open Cup is great. I saw the Detroit City FC beat the Columbus Crew a couple years back in front of a sell out crowd in Hamtracmk 7k+ on a cold spring night. The MLS Owners' fear of competition is palpable, the MLS owners should lean into it, the wider exposure will grow the game, netting them multiples more in the end. Props Rog on your support for the game in the States like most MLS and USL Supporters groups do, as its larger than MLS cities alone, and will truly benefit from the US Cup. 🤟

[@Ssweis23]

The fixture congestion complaint is pathetic when you think about how they started the League's Cup

[@MrZen08]

If I had to choose between one or the other, I'd rather see MLS teams challenged to play against Mexico's. That's how you get better.

[@Ssweis23]

@@MrZen08 CONCACAF Champions Cup already exists. Why doesn't the MLS try to encourage clubs to prioritize the top club competition on the continent so they can compete with MX clubs? What's the point of the League's Cup if 1) it adds to fixture congestion and 2) MLS clubs already play in a stronger competition? I personally don't think it's a coincidence that you can watch the League's Cup with MLS Season Pass on AppleTV but not the Champion's Cup.

[@johnf6861]

@@Ssweis23 I agree...Leagues Cup diminishes CONCACAF Champions Cup. Plus, Leagues Cup isn't even fair. The MX clubs play all away games (at least that is how it worked last year). If anything, get rid of Leagues Cup to solve congestion and elevate CCC in stature.

[@MrZen08]

@@Ssweis23 I think that's a fair point about fixture congestion, so I could see Leagues Cup being once every 4 years. What I like about it once in a while is that CCC only allows us to play against LMX top spenders, while we're salary capped. Whereas the Leagues Cup showed us truly how the two leagues compare, top to bottom. But yeah, we don't need to see that every year, and we should be competing against only the best on a year-to-year basis (CCC). It was giving us an inferiority complex though, but now we see the two leagues on average are about evenly matched. Still though, I don't buy that playing lower level domestic league teams makes us stronger (standout USL players should tryout for MLS... and get paid better). Raising the salary cap will make us stronger, though. And why they didn't raise it (and the floor) significantly once Messi joined - is far, far beyond me.

[@paulberry2884]

@@MrZen08 it was a lot of fun last year, made a lot of money, made Apple very happy, the press coverage was huge compared to MLS and the matches between the MLS and Mexican teams had a real edge. I wasn't a fan of the idea but 2023 rocked and I think the cross border rivalries will intensify. Why would you change that?

[@eddyhooper5052]

Of all the things you've put together over the years, you nailed perhaps the greatest full throated plea for the USOC and soccer history in our nation preserved and protected. You stired my soul when you brought back the over 100 years of the sport on these shores. Too often, the MLS portrays itself as the only organization that created the game here while ignoring our sports past. Here's hoping for better sponsorship and a drive to restore this great tournament.

[@paulberry2884]

Hopefully. Though I have to say the only "great" thing about it is the longevity and the reflection of soccer in various times. For most of its history it's been an amateur or semi-pro competition.

[@andou_ryuu3205]

There has to be something we can do to express our discontent with MLSs greed

[@davidday2373]

LOL. Stop watching sports if you think that way.

[@christopherhicks8107]

Find and support your lower league club instead. Will it be as good, in a technical sense, as the MLS? No, but you get to be closer to the pitch and players

[@1stutterafter]

Watch and support the USL or another lower league local team.

[@JamalGDNR]

I bet you never watched the open cup or been to a open cup game but still find the gall to type that.

[@paulberry2884]

Yeah watch the Premier League. No greed there whatsoever. 😂

[@USsoccerwithKopu]

This is such an expected mistake from MLS

[@benhofer2540]

I love this format of video, keep it up!

[@drogba4evah672]

Thank you for this amazing telling of US soccer history. I'm especially grateful for learning about the key role that my beloved home of Brooklyn played in the development of the sport. MLS really needs to show greater respect to this rich heritage.

[@probablynotian]

Weird, soccer in the US being destroyed by billionaires wanting to make more money? Who'd have thought?

[@paulberry2884]

The very billionaires without whom professional soccer wouldn't exist 😁

[@probablynotian]

@@paulberry2884 yeah, it definitely didn’t exist for 100 years before the billionaires thought they could make money off a World Cup.

[@paulberry2884]

@@probablynotian so you'd rather not have a successful domestic soccer league.

[@probablynotian]

@@paulberry2884 “success” is a pretty open term. One that somehow ignores that one guy kept it afloat. Same guy the open cup is named after.

[@paulberry2884]

@@probablynotian Anschutz bailed out MLS 22 years ago but Hunt was on the call. Now MLS has the 6th highest revenue of any soccer league, the 7th highest average attendance and more teams in the Forbes most valuable 30 than any other league but the EPL. I'd say that off the field it's pretty successful.

[@jameshunt005]

Great work! This video is the most comprehensive summation of the historical significance of USOC! Well done! 👏 👏👏

[@christopherhicks8107]

Well, we aren't in the Open Cup, but since you're based out of NYC, you should check out the local side I support, New York International FC. We just won the John Kilby Cup, 1 of 11 2nd Division sides to do so over many decades. We participate in the Cosmopolitan Soccer League and currently in the quarter final of the state cup, the Flamhaft. Definitely hit me up if you're interested in team and league in your backyard

[@1stutterafter]

You excited for Brooklyn FC going to USLC? Wish queensboro fc was still a thing.

[@christopherhicks8107]

@@1stutterafter well I'm a strict follower of my local side, New York International, my hope is that they don't get sucked into or absorbed by City Group Subsidiary NYC FC. More lower league teams and a stronger ecosystem is always better. I hope that MLS over played their hand jolts the other leagues to get their lives together. However, I wish the transnational idea would be killed off and have something like 3 Top League Divisions in the US with a pyramid within those regions of West/Central/East. I think it'd help with uniform KO times

[@paulberry2884]

And the Cosmopolitan League has promotion and relegation which is why so many Americans follow it.

[@christopherhicks8107]

@@paulberry2884 I'm not sure if you're being facetious but I wish the league would do a better job promoting it in the City especially since there's a partnering stream

[@paulberry2884]

@@christopherhicks8107 I do get fed up with people thinking that pro-rel is a magic formula. It's just a convenient way of organizing leagues when there's a surfeit of teams in a relatively small area. In the US we traditionally do things geographically.

[@grahamjgreen]

You can't threaten the history of US soccer (or anything for that matter), it's already happened, can't be changed. You can threaten the future though, which is what the MLS is doing.

[@syc_gamingAlt]

Disappointing to see no fans at these games but that’s Soccer in America. I was more disappointed to see my team, the Crew, decide not to put their first team in a competition started by someone who helped start our own club.

[@1stutterafter]

The cup is only named after Lamar Hunt.

[@Kbandz313]

I wish the Crew was in it. That Detroit City vs Crew game at Keyworth was a “You had to be there” moment. That crowd was just amazing especially being there.

[@paulberry2884]

Lamar Hunt was around in 1914???

[@1stutterafter]

@@paulberry2884 yes it’s very old and goes back to the American soccer league. There’s great info on Wikipedia and on KZbin. Read into the soccer wars too if you haven’t already. Great American soccer history.

[@human0_0skull]

Let's hope USL implements a pro-rel system and overtakes MLS in terms of popularity and competitiveness.

[@paulberry2884]

There is a pro-rel system in USL. North Carolina just promoted themselves. The owners don't want pro-rel because they like the level they're at.

[@human0_0skull]

@@paulberry2884 That's the problem with soccer in the US (and now in Europe). It's a grassroots sport, not a money-making enterprise like the NFL. The *clubs* must be owned by the local communities, who elect a president to manage the club's affairs.

[@paulberry2884]

@@human0_0skull not sure what you mean. 11 Premier League clubs are owned by American businessmen and 2 by Middle-Eastern governments. There are about 3 fan owned clubs left in the UK. The US has had community owned soccer clubs since the nineteenth century and as of 1994 we had 3 fully pro teams attracting crowds of less than 3,000. You can't eat your cake and have it too.

[@davidday2373]

For what? In an actual "Open System" all that would happen is that teams like LAFC, Atlanta, Seattle, NYCFC would become the DOMINANT teams in the U.S. soccer landscape.

[@paulberry2884]

I don't think that the average American will care if Central Valley Fuego are in USL League 1 or the USL Championship. The cost of stepping up from anywhere below that is impossible unless we introduce regional pro leagues as a stepping stone.

[@romanrojas8588]

This is a crazy story! After following La Liga for years I started watching the MLS last year. I had no idea the US has such rich football history. Thanks for this video!

[@westx68]

A sign of the times.... I live in Houston and most of my friends and co-workers don't know that Houston Dynami won the US Cup last year.

[@sportzfrk99]

That's the fault of the Dynamo.

[@Kbandz313]

TBH that seems more like a Houston Dynamo marketing issue

[@sportzfrk99]

@@Kbandz313 correct. MLS has not taken a shred of responsibility for their role in how the Open Cup is perceived.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

@@sportzfrk99 of all the cup truther’s arguments this one has to be the dumbest. The owners of a competition have the responsibility of marketing it. It’s a USSF competition - it’s the USSF’s problem to market it. MLS sides don’t even want to be there - why the hell would they go out of their way to market it? If USSF wants *its* competition to matter than it should pony up the cash to try and market it

[@sportzfrk99]

@@kalmenbarkin5708 that’s just wrong and you know it.

[@EpicGammingCrew]

I’m so done w these greedy owners. No interest in preserving/growing the game. Only interested in power and control

[@EpicGammingCrew]

I sincerely hope that is all just some pathetic cash grab while they have Messi and hype for the copa America/World Cup being hosted in the US. But until then, I will not be providing mls w one red cent

[@paulberry2884]

How is going from 3 fully professional teams in the US in 1993 to 103 in 2023 not growing the game? How is going from 0 full-time, residential, free to play academies to 28 in 17 years not growing the game? How is creating a 29 team third division from scratch in 3 years not growing the game? How is fielding reserve teams in USL to help them through a rough patch not growing the game? It's in MLS's best interest to grow the game. What has USSF done with the Open Cup to grow the game? It's been in existence for 110 years and it still costs amateur teams money to play, fielding scratch teams because qualifying is still going on 3 months after the end of the season and most of the players have gone back to college.

[@sportzfrk99]

@@paulberry2884 US Soccer is just its members. That's literally how the organization works. The Open Cup is ran by the stakeholders of the tournament, and one stakeholder, if it isn't clear, has VASTLY more influence and power over this than the others. Saying it's been US Soccer's problem is like saying it's your parking meter maid's problem for ticketing you. They're just implementing the will of the government. Oh and who the heck was the "marketing representation" of US Soccer for almost two decades? That'd be Soccer United Marketing.

[@paulberry2884]

@@sportzfrk99 MLS has 10.2% of USSF votes. The players have 33%. Was SUM the marketing partner for the Open Cup or just the NTs? If so why did USSF approach them in 2019 to get a TV contract? And who decides things like travel costs and prize money? Who has Open Cup qualifiers 3 months after the end of the regular season? The Open Cup is a nightmare to organize because of the short amateur seasons, which are scheduled for college breaks and the vast geography (though the French seem to manage that). The biggest problem though is that it costs everyone time and money, from amateur teams to the pros and there's no big payout to make up for that.

[@sportzfrk99]

@@paulberry2884 come on man, you know politics is more than just the pure voting numbers. Don’t be naive. SUM had ALL commercial rights for US Soccer. Period. This is backed up by audited financial statements. SUM payment was a lump sum payment for all rights. There is no qualifier for the Open Cup in that. It was SUM’s job, and if they passed on the rights back to US Soccer, that’s on them. Selling that tournament benefits both organizations, because MLS makes a profit on those rights they sell. They should take responsibility. The committee decides that. Which has ALWAYS had MLS representation on it. This is specifically stated in the US Soccer policy handbook. Holding the entire US Soccer system beholden to a non member’s rules (NCAA) seems like a stupid thing to do anymore. Also those mostly college player clubs use their season results as qualifying. The better teams get first dibs

[@forzajuve4845]

wowwww...5:52 mark brings back memories..I was a Philadelphia Fury ballboy....seeing Fran O'brien no.3 ,took me back...He gave his turf shoes to my buddy..my buddy always wore them because they said NASL on them awesome experience ..Being yelled at by David Robb to leave the ball go so he can eat the clock..I was told to get the ball back as fast as possible ..lollll

[@paulberry2884]

People seem to forget the players role in this. They're the ones who complained about fixture congestion. They're the ones who complained about traveling hundreds or thousands of miles on a Wednesday to play on a rock hard pitch in a crappy stadium. They also have the CBA which prevents MLS teams fielding reserves like Ipswich did against Maidenhead and Liverpool did against Southampton. Sure the decision sucks and Garber is unable to relate to soccer fans but it's not just the owners.

[@sportzfrk99]

It's a bit more complex than you make it out to be. The players know the owners have to come to the bargaining table if they want to use reserve players more frequently. That's the primary reason for their silence and having no official position. It doesn't benefit them to take a side. They win either way. Bob Foose made a PERSONAL OPINION, direct quote from him, but then over the offseason, players, when interviewed, including DP level players like Hector Herrera and Jordan Morris, said over and beyond positive things about the Open Cup.

[@terryfox9344]

Very well said. So many people think thank that no one played soccer in America before 1990, and are absolutely amazed that we have a richer and longer history than American rules football, which was nothing more than an offshoot of soccer (and rugby). The Open Cup needs to be THE most coveted Cup in America, and we need to start a similar US Women's Cup as well. US Soccer needs to do whatever it takes to make this happen, and all American leagues must cooperate.

[@dbrown992]

FC CINCINNATI (last years supporters shield winners) wouldn't exist without the US Open Cup. So we're pretty pissed about it too

[@frankf684]

Yea they would lol

[@cliterally1791]

thanks for speaking up, Rog

[@coachbjorn]

Turns out MLS is kind of a horrible league. Anti-competitive, selfish. If you don't do it right, it is not only wrong, but destructive.

[@davidday2373]

Why?

[@SortOfEggish]

Bro sit down

[@coachbjorn]

Why, you have big news?@@SortOfEggish

[@coachbjorn]

Did you not actually watch the video? Have you not been paying attention to the Open Cup or... anything else? @@davidday2373

[@paulberry2884]

And for all it's faults I love it. USL is owned by a real estate company and most of the owners are developers.

[@michaelengstrom4955]

Love OUR Cup !!!! No matter how many holes are in it..... Love ya Rog,,, MJ Westmont IL

[@MersageSW]

These are the reasons I watch European football and almost never the MLS.

[@louispontillo9467]

If you attended Messi and Friends in 2013, then you know exactly how the Wonka experience felt.

[@1stutterafter]

Bethlehem Steel came back for a short time then became Philadelphia Union 2. Fullriver marksmen still exist as an amateur team.

[@paulberry2884]

Fall River Marksmen moved to New York City and became the New York Yankees in 1931. Sam Marks' first reaction to the Great Depression was to move them to a big city.

[@1stutterafter]

@@paulberry2884 and now they’re an amateur team that play in the EPSL

[@KwesiLincoln]

They have too many games (60) if a team get to the finals on all the competitions. Also some players have National duties. There’s not enough squad depth for players to play all these competitions. Something had to give. MLS needs to more flexible when it’s come to buying players. The caps are too small

[@KwesiLincoln]

@@zharth. I agree with You but at the moment with CONCACAF going on the teams have a game every 4 days. Not enough time for recovery ❤️‍🩹 especially if you have aging players

[@sportzfrk99]

Correct the solution is larger rosters. That's on the cheap ass owners.

[@frankf684]

Pro hockey players play 82 games, in 6 months they seem fine.Hockey is much more violent

[@KwesiLincoln]

@@frankf684 Soccer/Football is different from Hockey 🏒. Each Hockey last 60mins for the 82 games = 4,920 Mins. For the 60 games in soccer = 5,400 mins (90mins per game) that would be played. That’s excluding overtime during knockout stages when games are tired in competitions. Also the soccer field is bigger which means players cover more ground.

[@PapaSorin954]

Who wouldve thought that Traffic Sports, former owners of the NASL and FIFA scandal guys themselves were less scummy than Don Garber.

[@Joekuh]

Nah, WHERE CAN I GET THAT PHILLY JACKET?!?!?!?!?!? 🔥 🔥 🔥

[@davidt3956]

There's nothing secret about it. It's been known for decades that the MLS owns USSF.

[@forzajuve4845]

Soccer in the usa has always had the problem of it eating it's own ..now there are a zillion different youth leagues because of people in charge not growing the sport for the good of the game unless they get theirs. when someone doesn't like how a league is run, they start a new league. too much greed at all levels

[@donparkison4617]

Half of the reason I love S occer is because most of the leagues are not monopolies. I gave up American leagues because those monopolies mean that its not, cannot be, a true competition. MLS deciding to do the monopoly thing ruined it for me.

[@wuxiagamescentral]

Rog has more love for my soccer history than I do

[@ronaldchomik7378]

It’s laughable they claim fixture congestion when there’s already a regional tournament to determine the best team. Usually it’s an MLS team vs a Mexican team. So naturally, they create a leagues cup between Mexican and MLS teams to determine who’s better. Meaning that you could have the exact same teams fighting for the title. This time it’s to determine which league is better. And to round out the total fallacy of fixture congestion, they still insist on having a pointless All Star game. The All Star game is between MLS best v LMX best.

[@atlantanknight7]

Boycott the Leagues Cup. Watch US Open Cup matches!

[@frankf684]

Na I like semi decent American soccer,not whatever the USL plays

[@atlantanknight7]

@@frankf684 so what did you think when Sacramento Republic made the cup final?

[@JamalGDNR]

Everyone complains but nobody watches, nobody shows up.

[@davidday2373]

Don Garber has done more for the US Open Cup in the past 2 months (bringing attention to it that it even exists), than the supposed US Open Cup fans have done in the past 100+ years.

[@owenthornhill9671]

Zero marketing by clubs doesn't help.

[@KenFales]

Messi's arrival has made MLS a joke to me. I paid to watch last season. This season, it just feels silly, and I haven't been moved to cough up the cash.

[@aboynam3dblu3]

Support the Cup!

[@SmithVideoPRODUCTION]

Why I am surprised that he didn't mention USL, NISA, NPSL or any of the other lower leagues in the states.

[@paulberry2884]

NISA 😂 They've split into 2 conferences this season, 1 with 5 teams and 1 with 4. The only remaining "big" club has joined MLS Next Pro and last season's champions have folded. This is how professional soccer was in the US before the greedy billionaires got involved.

[@dissonantradio5850]

He did mention the USL at least twice.

[@darrenmcclellan9869]

I’m just glad that MLS is gone behind Apple paywalls and won’t play out this fiendish crap period on national coverage. We can bury this in a grave next to boxing. 🥊

[@dominicdrummond2233]

So everybody hates the MLS yet everybody still wants MLS in the cup... make it make sense

[@jcngokai-76]

US Soccer Federation GOT NO BALLS ON RUNNING THE GAME, plainly SIMPLE!!!

[@owenthornhill9671]

#savethecup

[@rhorto01]

Glad to hear fan clubs are organizing boycotts. St. Louis City fan want to compete in the Open Cup not some soulless corporate cash grab Frankentournament.

[@davidday2373]

Boycott what?

[@rhorto01]

@@davidday2373 Leagues Cup games.

[@robertbobrichard]

Thank you Rog for speaking the truth.

[@wiltonater]

To me as a soccer fan primary intrested in La Liga, UCL, USMNT, and EPL not want to watch any MLS. Last season I didn't even subscribe to Apple TV and don't plan to again. To me and many other soccer fans MLS made thier product lesser by doing this.

[@staticcharm3808]

A tournament you never covered before or spent one second talking about 😂

[@user-fk9ek8zt9s]

Us soccer shouldnt allow this.

[@markballard9942]

This is one of the reasons that I prefer watching English football. And I prefer watching so called lower league football to watching premier league football.

[@paulberry2884]

I watch EFL League 2 and MLS. I hate the Premier League.

[@SmithVideoPRODUCTION]

Why dont you watch lower league soccer in the states like USL, NISA, NPSL or any of the other regional leagues. You probably have a city near you with a local team.

[@paulberry2884]

​@@SmithVideoPRODUCTION Kingston Stockade, though their stadium is closed for refurb until 2025. I never remember when the games are and in the blink of an eye the season is over. I started supporting Notts County because I could walk from my flat to the stadium. 35 years later I started supporting NYCFC because I could walk from my apartment to Yankee Stadium.

[@Faladin85]

Would not say anything glorious in our soccer history unless it our womans team

[@robbiebalboa]

These Ethnic American club names would look mad on clothes, Brooklyn Celtic, FC Hispanico.

[@frankf684]

Who is Brooklyn Celtic?Boston Celtics?a lot of Irish people in Boston.

[@robbiebalboa]

There was a team called Brooklyn Celtic mentioned in this video. Long before there was a Boston Celtics.

[@Froskru]

This isn’t supposed to happen however with no pyramid football in America and competition between businesses then it’s inevitable

[@turkeyman631]

I dislike all American sports leagues for the same reason. The focus is on making the investors as comfortable as possible and relying on casual fans. Our leagues are set up in a way where teams can just coast and not care about winning and there will be no penalties to them. We have no relegation or promotion so already the games are way less exciting until the playoffs... I feel like a lot of USL teams have the stadiums and following that could support enterting the MLS and I dont know why they dont just do a 2 league promotion relegation system.

[@davidday2373]

What you're complaining about is successful, healthy, fun, exciting sports leagues that have a reasonable degree of Parity. EIGHT different teams in the past 10 years have won the Championship in MLS (9 in MLB, 8 in NHL, 7 in NBA, 6 in NFL). In Bundesliga, only ONE team in 10 years has won the Cup. In the EPL only THREE teams have won 80% of the Cups in league history. In La Liga, NINE teams have won it in their entire 90+ years history. We don't need Promotion-Relegation, it serves no purpose.

[@davidday2373]

82,000 fans filled the Rose Bowl in July, middle of the season. We don't need Promotion-Relegation to ARTIFICIALLY make fans care about games.

[@davidday2373]

@@user-qb3og5iu3r Great, so they fabricated sub-tournaments to keep little teams happy/distracted. I guess that works in England/Europe, good for them. But the LIE that Promotion-Relegation is some sort of prize for the little teams is what keeps the RICH teams RICH, and keeps the little teams stuck in a revolving door of mediocrity, stuck in a sand-trap.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

@@user-qb3og5iu3rI love how they’ve managed to brainwash yall into thinking that *not being able to win it all* is what true competitiveness is. Never mind being the actual champion - you’re truly competitive because … you can compete for 17th place. Man European copium has done a number on some people’s brains

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

@@user-qb3og5iu3r yeah I get it - Europeans are content with uncompetitive leagues. It’s a shame but they’re mostly okay with never having a chance to win. American fans aren’t willing to put up with that. We expect our leagues to be as fair as possible and give everyone a chance to win. Our system is better - and people who learned the sport using a shitty system don’t get that the rest of us aren’t willing to put up with that garbage

[@Thatguyinyourclass]

Lamarr Hunt has done more for US sports than anyone else has. Without him we wouldn't have a US Open or the US Open Cup so it's extremely insulting to hos legacy that the MLS, a league in which he basically saved doesn't want to participate in the US Open Cup. The Leagues Cup is just another excuse to play Liga MX teams and it's usually in July when all the international players are busy with tournaments. Honestly, no one actually gives a shit about Leagues Cup, maybe if they changed it into the North American version of the Europa League people would. But it's basically a US v Mexico cup that pauses the league for like 2 weeks. The US Open Cup is something special though, FC Cincy's run in it is the reason they became a MLS team, Sacramento's run was amazing, and there are countless stories of USL sides making MLS teams struggle. You want people to watch soccer here, walking away from the oldest competition in the US will not do that. And as much as Garber has done for the MLS, he's not a soccer guy. He was an executive of a football team when he was named commissioner and is a business man. He doesn't care about the sport he cares about the MLS Brand, maybe it's time a soccer guy takes over.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

Hunt’s legacy is being pragmatic and flying in the face of tradition to grow the game(s). Pulling out of a dumb competition that nobody is interested in is the most Lamar Hunt thing possible. Even if they slapped his name on the trophy to try and piggyback off his reputation.

[@sportzfrk99]

@@kalmenbarkin5708 you have zero fucking clue what you are talking about.

[@33themajor]

Leagues Cup is unnecessary. Should be every four years if anything.

[@davidday2373]

Tell us about Argentina's "FA Cup"... and it's TWELVE YEARS of history. LOL 😁

[@asapaul7671]

Why do you hate the USOC so much to the point I see your comments on every video about it. Sit down and shut up, enjoy your MLS, keep in mind that a lot of people don’t agree with you

[@davidday2373]

@@asapaul7671 I like it. It's just not what these people are trying to make it out to be. It's ridiculous to compare it to the "Copa del Rey" or "FA Cup"... the USOC has never meant anything significant. And really, all of this is mainly A-holes trying to use ANYTHING to trash MLS in any way.... and I like countering those people.

[@patrickmccormack1322]

MLS wants to be the NFL. If you look at everything the league does through that lens, their decisions make a lot more sense (it does not make their decisions right)

[@davidday2373]

You make no sense. Everyone wants to be the NFL. The EPL 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 wants to be the NFL.

[@JoaquinTazabi]

Patrick is making perfect sense, that's where Garber came from and it's the most profitable US sports league ​@@davidday2373

[@AlexTorres-fo5eo]

You know Don Garber got his start in the NFL, right?

[@davidday2373]

@@AlexTorres-fo5eo You knw the NFL is the envy of every sports league in the world, right? I don't even watch the NFL, but it's success is undeniable.

[@human0_0skull]

@@davidday2373 BS! UCL and EPL far surpass the NFL in terms of audience and enthusiasm worldwide. The NFL is simply well marketed and promoted in the US, generating lots of revenue thanks to the ridiculous amount of advertising shown during games. Outside the U.S., nobody gives a damn, and the NBA will overtake the NFL in a couple of decades.

[@MrZen08]

Rog - I appreciate your passion for it, but I too think its time is over. Last time my Sounders played their starters was the Red Card Wedding, about 10 years ago. In front of a mere 5,000 fans, Obafemi Martins went down with a long term injury and Clint Dempsey tore up a sub-sub-sub-par ref's notebook, resulting in a suspension that extended into MLS regular season play, for some reason. Coach Sigi actually left the game in disgust before it even ended. Resultingly & sadly, it was one of the last times Oba & Clint played together. I don't want to watch the Sounders play amateur teams any more than I'd want to watch the Seahawks play Rutgers University [while trying to make the NFL playoffs!]. The good players on Rutgers will make it to the NFL. It's not like their only chance for glory is in defeating an NFL team that decided to play their benchwarmers that day.

[@JoaquinTazabi]

You know, I was considering your viewpoint and willing to lend credence to it, but the shots at Rutgers ruined that. Good day!

[@SortOfEggish]

Completely agree

[@MrZen08]

@@JoaquinTazabi Haha! No disrespect, I just used the first name that came to my head. I'm actually not that familiar with the rankings of most college teams year to year.

[@JoaquinTazabi]

@@MrZen08 Just messing with you, I am a Rutgers fan but not from NJ, so not that sensitive. I love the US Open Cup, but I remember the game you're talking about. Fair point.

[@danielhorton8826]

In some ways, it perfectly encapsulates soccer in the US. Pay to play. No grassroots. Snobby.

[@SortOfEggish]

Snobby? Americans? Bro...

[@hijinks21]

This is why we need a new top league that starts out supporting relegation

[@davidday2373]

No. Never.

[@burner8959]

I was done with MLS and Garber after the Apple TV cash grab. This is just another reason to hate him and the league. The reasoning is fixture congestion. Fixture congestion exacerbated by Garber's tournament cash grab. A tournament with no history, that no one cares about and the U.S. Open Cup gets kicked to the curb. MLS and US Soccer, killing hopes and dreams since it became popular.

[@andrewgriesel1049]

You nailed my friend 💯 US soccer and MLS are as corrupt as they come 😬

[@davidday2373]

Good. We don't need fake fans. The less of you, the better for MLS.

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

“A tournament that no one cares about” Are you by any chance describing the tournament streamed on KZbin because no broadcaster was willing to bump their shitty debates about Jordan vs Lebron for? lol of course not - you’re talking about the tournament that drew like 20,000 fans a game. Stop conflating your taste with “everyone”

[@davidday2373]

Let the US Open Cup go back to it's glory days, before MLS even existed, how bout that.

[@asapaul7671]

I agree, MLS shouldn’t exist

[@davidday2373]

@@asapaul7671 You hate Soccer?

[@hotohori69]

An Open cup competitions' appeal is that a pro team like Miami or DC united gets to play a Rochester or Birmingham side a team that they wouldn't play at all and even have a wild chance at beating them.. The MLS withdrawing teams its VERY MUCH ANTI-SOCCER. These Open Competition is supposed to bring that feeling of locality and community ties not just money but owners and GMs dont care.

[@carljacobs1260]

The cost of USOC goes to MLS. The benefits (primarily) accrue to USL - which fancies itself a potential D1 competitor to MLS. Now I realize there are a lot of people on social media who think USL will complete the quixotic quest to bring Pro/Rel to the US - it won't - and therefore reflexively support USL. But that is not a good reason for MLS to fund USL via this tournament. Nor is there a good reason for MLS to give USL a platform whereby it could claim some measure of parity. If you want it to be about history, you have to remove this MLS/USL dynamic.

[@54321jcc]

That’s just untrue all the teams and USSF pay for the tournament collectively(with those who choose to host giving more). If anything MLS has been subsidized by the USOC for about 2 decades because it was included in their exclusive no-bid contract for US Soccer’s media rights.

[@dejjoe345]

@@54321jcc You have to be joking. The USOC makes no money and has no broadcaster. How did the USOC make money for MLS?

[@kalmenbarkin5708]

@@54321jcc they got USOC because literally nobody else wanted it. The federation forced them to take it because it was a negative value asset. They tried selling it to other broadcasters and nobody wanted to broadcast it *even for free*

[@mheiseus]

You have to look at this from the point of view from the MLS as well, The USSF isnt carrying thier own weight when it comes to promoting these competitions and MLS teams usually have to pay to put the matches on...To me this is growing pains in US Soccer and this wont be the first time it happens, look at the refs situation...

[@superkh12]

TBH I couldn't give 2 shits about this Cup. 9 times out of 10 my team ain't in it or at best makes it to the quarters[Thanks, Galaxy]. Unless you, for some reason, support USL and below teams, there's 0 reason to watch until the MLS teams are in. Fully support MLS teams pulling out altogether.

[@mikes9425]

"Kneecapping US soccer" was when we let washed up 8th tier UK footballers cross the pond and define US soccer for the 70s, 80s, and 90s. I loved Tom Dooley and Earnie Stewart, but they indicate the failure of US Soccer, not success. And as for 'MLS carrying the US Open cup'? you know better, Rog, shame on you for entertaining that statement

[@davidday2373]

US Open Cup is so _fetch_ (not a thing)

[@paulberry2884]

To get this in context. It's NOT the FA Cup. - The original ASL split in 1927 over participation in the Open Cup. - NASL never competed in the Open Cup. - APSL didn't compete until 1995 - Only 8 MLS teams competed ever year before 2011. So this is a THIRTEEN year-old tradition. Unlike the FA Cup - teams don't make a ton of money (smaller teams have needed GoFundMe's to travel) - millions of people are NOT inspired - attendances are often low: 300 for Las Vegas v Real Salt Lake in 2023 - very few watch the handful of games that are on TV. Instead of looking to Europe why don't we look at our own continent? Liga MX shut down their domestic cup competition and no-one seemed to care. I don't like the way Garber/MLS handled this. They should have given USSF more time and negotiated other options with the MLSPA such as unlimited loans for this competition. I hope the Open Cup is reinvigorated and that it goes from strength and becomes like the FA Cup, but with potential 5,000 mile midweek round trips to contend with I doubt this will happen.

[@davidday2373]

Talking about a THIRTEEN year-old "tradition"... Argentina's "FA Cup" has only been played on TWELVE occasions. Has only really been played since 2011-12. They love using England/EPL/FA Cup for every comparison. Imagine, a FOOTBALLING GIANT like ARGENTINA not having a "proper" FA Cup/US Open Cup-style history, _Gasp_

[@paulberry2884]

@@davidday2373 and Germany doesn't amateur teams to enter it's DFB-Pokal.

[@robertarciniega6192]

I've followed MLS since its inception and I've never given a sh@#t about the US Open Cup. I'm glad MLS is moving away from it.

[@BewareOfTheEvilOfZionists]

I said it before and I’ll say it again, if you have a moral compass you should NEVER support anything MLS. They are terrible people. Terrible.