The Serpent and The Erdtree | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 14

[@youbgbrezzzy]

damn you actually predicted Messmer

[@TotalTavern]

How so?

[@Kodiak42]

@@TotalTavern Bonny village snakeskin

[@Eagle_SFM]

Coming back to this after the DLC trailer for Messmer, crucible, and serpent hints Yup, this aged well

[@blay_DEV]

Cracked the DLC lore even before the DLC Gameplay Reveal Trailer. Amazing job!

[@willhibbard6903]

In my mind, I imagine Rykard burning the minor Erd tree in his territory was his blasphemous declaration of war to Lyendell. His threat to burn the Erd tree was clear, and as we know with Lyendell’s harsh treatments of prophets who see fire in the future, actually burning a scared tree must have *really* pissed them off

[@hirsutuscanis]

Why would it be scarred? He obviously meant sacred. And what are you even on about?

[@bbefb045]

( the typo is sacred )

[@hirsutuscanis]

@@acrazyweeb7225 Please explain to me how any of that made sense in your head, scared or scarred or both.

[@VapidFart]

​@hirsutuscanis you're really bent out of shape over a misspelling. Kinda sad and funny at the same time tbh

[@willhibbard6903]

@@hirsutuscanis I did a typo. I meant sacred

[@gretchling5012]

you know, it makes sense that the godskin cult and the serpent god would be friendly. assuming the serpent god still sheds its skin, that's a commodity the godskins would be greatly interested in.

[@Mae_Dastardly]

Godskins praise the serpent king as their holy provider of drip

[@-Gilver]

That would explain the tail on one of them 🤔

[@raulparrado1547]

That would explain the presence of the Godskin Noble in Gelmir

[@-Gilver]

@@raulparrado1547 it would yeah

[@TonkarzOfSolSystem]

@@raulparrado1547 Rykard was in on the Black Knife plot, that explains the Godskin's presence.

[@vergil8833]

There is of course also the connection between the fire giants and giant serpent through the real world mythological inspiration of the Norse Fire Giants and Jormungandr, both are jotuns and both are waiting to end the world once regnarok comes.

[@Noxturne09]

The giant snake god having a relation to the fiery giant god tracks

[@Stephen-so9oi]

@@Noxturne09 loki the red haired giant births the snake. Could it be the fire giant burned the tree before the erdtree and from the ashes awoke it or birthed it? Who knows.

[@dalakhsarothal9624]

Gladiatorial combat in antiquity was a show and some gladiators portrayed the historical enemies of Rome. What if the gladiators of the Colloseums bear a mix of Serpent God and Fell God symbols because they are meant to represent the enemies of the Erdtree as a whole, like a metaphorical figure of the nemesis of the Erdtree rather than an actual serpent and fell god worshipper.

[@aceundead4750]

It could also have been both, since some of the events held in the colosseums of Rome were executions of captives from other nations.

[@evanholt1752]

Oh, like fire nation man!

[@disrupticon]

This is probably what Messmer is about.

[@Ell_Pacino]

I’m continuously amazed at how 1 to 1 the concept art and actual in game locations are. FromSoft’s artist really are on another level

[@pauliusbaranauskas7915]

14:00 Wow. Never expected to find my national mythology in an Elden Ring lore video. The names of the serpent and a woman translated mean "Evergreen" and "Spruce" respectively, which nicely fits into Archeologist's theory, that the great tree was coniferous. Edit: In most versions of the tale, the woman's brothers, disgusted by their marriage, torture her children to give up the means to lure the serpent and then kill him. Enraged the woman curses her brothers, her children and herself to turn into trees. Just thought I'd clarify. Edit 2: As pointed out, no, she only curses herself and the children, not the brothers. Oops.

[@MATCHLESS789]

Never heard the version where she curses her brothers. It's always children and herself, turning the sons into "strong" trees (oak, ash, birch) the daughter into weak shaky tree (aspen, lithuanian "drebulė", coming from a word "drebėti" - literally meaning to quiver, shake or tremble) and herself into a spruce.

[@joeclarke7982]

@@seratoxin3825 good for you? I guess

[@Neptunequeen42]

How does this game keep unfolding to contain new multitudes within it? How did they construct a single game to have so much nuanced history, culture, entire eons of civilization going back to the stone age, just as a dusting of backstory? Just when we're starting to recover from how great Elden Ring was as an RPG, we're coming to realize just how much more it has to offer as a piece of literature.

[@AlexGordonMusic]

I think TA’s talent is his eye for historical influence… and that’s why his channel is so interesting “Hey, this serpent shares a name with an actual mythological serpent queen” “Oh, the volcano manor bears a striking resemblance to another kingdom that violently diverged from orthodoxy” “Hey, this areas symbolism and chronology is identical to this historical setting.” The dude is clearly a history and archeology buff (edit: either an academic, or a truly devoted hobbyist) And this allows him to reveal to us just how much From likely share the same interest. It’s absolutely fascinating… and, in all likelihood, accurate.

[@Neptunequeen42]

@@AlexGordonMusic Agreed! The amount of undeniable real-world historical references is insane, especially since NONE of it is the typical easily recognizable stuff that most people would see. They went out of their way to find the most appropriate reference even if it’s obscure, which is what lends the entire world such an air of realism, even if you don’t realize why.

[@agressicum]

@@Neptunequeen42 There are severals tools From always use to build stories like Elden Ring. The most interesting one for me personally is how they take a real life metaphor and deconstruct it to something literal and magical both. For example, as TA mentioned, Erd tree is a literal interpretation of a genealogy tree metaphor. You can same move by yourself pretty easy just right now. Pick any metaphor from real life and think about it outside of the metaphorical layer, just as about real thing. You would see how it works :)

[@_ariosto1519]

This game is a fractal…

[@nexuslexus13]

They had one of those most popular world building authors of the modern era write it for them I'd be pissed if it wasn't this detailed

[@mayhemivory5730]

also noteworthy that mount gelmir is the only site of a destroyed erdtree! even in caelid, the minor erdtrees still stand tall and golden; but the one in gelmir is broken and burned. personally i‘m very interested in the divine light of elden ring; and orange stood out to me here. gelmirs fury, the takers flame, the evergrowing lust for power of the magma wyrms. there ought to be some connection there too.

[@giuseppecappelliPSRL]

And there is also a wormface at the feet of the destroyed erdtree...

[@saintsfearful]

The consecrated snowfield tree is also burned.

[@soleo2783]

​@@saintsfearfulwhich also fits, considering the fell gods presence there

[@gwonamtimetraveler]

Watching this after the trailer knowledge is so exiting

[@giuliomi1540]

The Hohenzollern Castle you showed was actually built in the 19th Century on top of the ruins of the original Hohenzollern Castle that was destroyed in the middle ages. It looks like what the people back then imagined medieval castles to look like.

[@CamiloFHSC]

It's interesting to point out that Mt Gelmnir became a hotpot of all sorts of heresies. Besides the Leyndell forces, you can find people affected by the Frenzied Flame, Grafted Scions, a Wormface, fire monks, Carian sorcerers alongside their demi-human allies and their puppet servants. It's an entire festival of former and current enemies of the Erdtree. Rykard not only partook of blasphemy himself, he seemed to have opened the door to anyone with an axe to grind against the Golden Order regardless of their specific beliefs.

[@mitchellbutler2307]

With the drop of the DLC trailer it seems likely that the treacherous "snake" who tried to burn the Erdtree and inspired Rykard's blasphemy was Messmer. Considering his similar physiology he might also have a connection with the Godskin. I even wonder if the mother and child depicted on the Abductor Virgins are actually Messmer and Marika - an extremely blasphemous image, considering all reference to him seems to be taboo.

[@DaddySaddo]

Holy shit this guy is a GENIUS.

[@MrChadLedford]

I had no idea how deep this lore went. No one touches your analysis. It's not even close. Your videos inspired me to start a new play through. It's incredible playing through again with the knowledge discussed in these videos!

[@softmachinecreation]

This video got so many things right. Hands down the best lore channel on yt

[@Percivalis]

Dlc adds so much snake lore

[@lucasvebber6281]

Seeing the new DLC footage, this video is definitely very relevant right now

[@UltraStarWarsFanatic]

Yep, there's a lot of overlap with what I was thinking about the other day. A few supporting points I'd like to call attention to: 1. When Diallos first directs the player to the Volcano Manor, he specifically mentions the path leading from the Windmill Village, reinforcing the idea that those two zones are known in-universe to be related by that route. 2. There is a serpentine variant of the snail enemies that can be found throughout the game, which drops serpent arrows. However, some of the other varieties of snail drop serpent arrows as well, such as the skeletal snails. I wonder if this is supposed to tip us off to the fact that all of the snail-type enemies were given rise from serpents. In which case the spirit caller snails, especially the one that drops the Godskin Swadling Cloth, could be another connection between the GEQ and the Great Serpent. 3. The largest group of Banished Knights in-game are guarding the Dragon Temple Altar, which is the Godskin Duo boss arena. This isn't taken as a meaningful relation because it's oft assumed that the Godskins are an invasive force to Farum Azula, but that's not necessarily the case. Of note, the Dragon Temple is strikingly similar to the Temple of Eiglay where the Godskin Noble is encountered. Also of note is that the second largest group of Banished Knights in-game roam Stormveil Castle, where the Godskin Prayerbook, Godslayer Seal, and an ancient death hex not unlike Rykard's rancor can be found. 4. The attacks of the Serpent Hunter, like the Storm Ruler which it calls back to, emit a storm effect. It's not hard to imagine that the creators of the Serpent Hunter, like those who would eventually rediscover it, were originally subordinates of the Great Serpent. The Banished Knights, who wield storm arts, are fairly believable as candidates. 5. If it is taken for granted that there is a relationship between the Godskin Apostles, the Banished Knights, and the Great Serpent, then that does much to contextualize another major Erdtree-burning attempt. Namely, Gransax sacrificing itself to strike it with a great lightning bolt, seemingly without provocation. In a land without fire, lightning ought to be the best way to set a tree ablaze. This is wild speculation on my part, but wouldn't it be interesting if the Great Serpent came from one coil of the helix-shaped tree (said to be ancient, ergo not the Haligtree) referenced on one of the shields? Hence its status as a traitor, rather than just another enemy? I commented in some detail on the last video about my theory that the ancient dragons were originally trees themselves, and the same could be true of the Great Serpent, to which the dead are also sacrificed to birth life anew. Plus there's the Ulcerated Tree Spirits which are very serpentine, including one on Mt. Gelmir. There's also precedent to be found in the legend of Egle, with her children turning into trees at the end. If the GEQ was Marika's twin, as is hinted by the rune of death being the mirror image of Marika's own elden rune, then her half of the tree becoming the Great Serpent is an attractive idea. If the Haligtree was meant to become an Erdtree, it would follow logically that the ancient Erdtree took a form that resembled the Haligtree, after all.

[@UltraStarWarsFanatic]

It also shouldn't be forgotten that the Gelmir glintstone staves, which enhance the hex-like sorceries Rykard developed, utilize red glintstone. We know that the thorn sorcerers were able to create red glintstones by impaling people on smoldering branches, a method referred to as being akin to a hex. In case there was any doubt that there is a connection between the fire monks and the serpents.

[@UltraStarWarsFanatic]

Another thing that should not be overlooked is the connection between Tanith and the Shaded Castle, which is vaguely established by the consort set and by Patches' questline. My gut tells me that the white-haired progenitor of house Marias, which the Marias mask was modeled after, has to be important to this section of the story somehow. Maybe Arganthy, too.

[@Xandros999]

The godskin prayer book is locked away next to a pantry. It's not a respected object. However it may go to show that Godrick has had dealings with heretics but was unwilling to adopt their teachings.

[@UltraStarWarsFanatic]

@@Xandros999 Of course it's not respected. For eons Stormveil Castle has been ruled by a scion of the Golden Lineage, and the order of Banished Knights have been reduced to glorified sellswords. The original culture of Stormveil Castle is long buried. What's important is that the prayerbook was brought there in the first place, indicating that there were worshippers of the black flame among the exiles there at one time. Which seems meaningful with the added context of there being a boatload of Banished Knights there with the Godskin Apostles in the Dragon Temple.

[@PaszerDye]

@@Xandros999 The fact that the Godskin Prayerbook and the Godslayer Seal are found in 2 separate chest in Stormveil is probably just coincidence. Had these 2 things been found on corpses in places of import, it would have implied that agents or faithfuls of the Godskin Apostacy had infiltrated or been invited Stormveil. But since they are found in 2 separate chests in a pantry, it instead infers that the items were both taken out of the places where they are considered sacred and somehow ended up in a pantry at Stormveil, likely part of some casual trade, where both vendor and purchaser were unaware of the items' significance. Things like that just happen in reality, like all the untraceable paths, and hitherto unknown hands that famous and lost paintings have taken and exchanged between. One famous Picasso piece can actually be found in the possession of the current Philippine president, the son of a former dictator who declared martial law in the 70s, and rule an extended terms for over 2 decades.

[@grimmtheschoolaroffools2068]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU

[@Demokaze]

I think the dungeater is shown hanged at volcano manor's "prison town" in the opening cutscene and there is an omenkiller there controlling the spread of the omen plague with his fire breath. And fingercreepers, which are suggested to be an extension of Rykard's power have been placed outside the dungeater's cell below Leyndell, presumably to prevent anyone from opening his cell (as they despawn when you free him).

[@UltraStarWarsFanatic]

That's a cool idea, but lore wise I think all of those scenes are supposed to take place outside the Lands Between. They're the moments where the Tarnished are called back home, after all.

[@Neptunequeen42]

That would make perfect sense if not for the fact that Tarnished are supposed to ALL have been external to the Lands Between before being called back. We know so little about the world outside, but it’s certainly possible that all the societal structures and problems that exist here still exist in the Erdtree-controlled regions beyond, such as the omen and omenkillers. And yet it’s still true that Dungeater is imprisoned below Leyndell when most tarnished haven’t even made it to the plateau without getting pulped, so it’s possible he’s the exception.

[@DozleZabi]

I think that the Dung Eater isnt being hanged. Hed being lowered into the sewers. You can see the iron brace around his neck/helmet. Theres no point to hanging him since death doesnt exist because there's no rune of death.

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

How are the fingercreepers related to Rykard? They seem to be everywhere, but most prominently on the Mountaintops of the Giants, Carian Manor, and Mt. Gelmir. I honestly think there's just too much we don't know about fingercreepers - they're connected to too many things but have very little lore about them.

[@bignickenergy3525]

@@monsieurdorgat6864 they're likely st Carian Manor as Ranni, Rykard's sister, is there. If they're extensions then the finger creepers are in places rykard intends to defend or maybe even seek. Mt gelmir to hunt the giant's fire, carian manor to defend Ranni, and that library whose name escapes me to guard Ranni's body since Rykard was likely privvy to the plan and took the fall for the night of black knives

[@spluv1]

omfg that is so cool. 34:30 so if i understand this correctly, well, my take anyway, is that the giant's flame is sort of elden ring's equivalent to DS1's chaos flame. but marika had sealed away the rune of death, or the chaotic part of it, so that it couldn't consume everything around it anymore, isolating it on the mountaintop of the giants. but by going to the top, melina allows us to "commune" with the giant's flame, going into its memories or something, and by fighting maliketh, we can unlock the sealed chaos part of the flame. that is so cool

[@crowstakingoff]

My interpretation was that the god-devouring serpent is meant to parallel Nidhogg, who chewed on the roots of Yggdrasil. This would be a pretty clear example of conflict between snakes and trees. Clarifying question: where does the game tell us that the godskin movement was an apostasy? I'm having difficulty finding this particular word. The only place I see it is in the Apostate Derelict.

[@gustavl3107]

Excellent video as always! The interplay between the Serpent God, the Black Flame and Destined Death is probably my favorite part of Elden Ring lore and I just love, LOVE how it is portrayed in-game. We all know the story of how Miyazaki was inspired by reading fiction in English before he fully understood the language, and how his partial understanding of whatever fantasy and horror he read as a child made those stories so much richer. I think the connecting tissue between the Godskins, the Gloam-Eyed Queen, The Black-Knife Assassins, Ranni, Rykard, Melina etc. is From Software's best example of invoking this *feeling* yet. Like, I can at a primal, subconscious level understand what the story is. But I can't put it to words. It feels congruent with the game that Iji is lit aflame with black fire surrounded by Black-Knifes after finishing Ranni's questline, but I don't think anyone can write a "full explanation" as to why. The feeling this give me has made me come back to the world of this game every day for almost a year now.

[@Christmas_Johan]

Watching this after DLC trailer gang gang

[@sidewaysfcs0718]

Coming back to this, kinda screams clear that Messmer was the previous leader of the heretical snake faction that attacked leyndell in the past.

[@samuraispartan7000]

Your videos are incredible. Some of the best lore deep dives on KZbin. I’m interested to see your take on Liurnia and the Carian royals. Ranni’s storyline seems to be a loose adaptation of an Estonian folk tale called the “Child of the Egg.” Here are just a few parallels… 1. A magical egg capable of producing children (Ranni may or may not have been born from Rennala's amber egg, but it seems highly likely) 2. A lost princess 3. A lost princess that assumed the form of a doll 4. A king that remarried out of apparent ambition (Queen Rennala never died, but Radagon/Marika may have been motivated by ambition) 5. A crisis resulting in the violent deaths of the king and queen (Radagon/Marika may have been a single being or separated, but either way, they were effectively overthrown following the Shattering. Marika was seemingly stabbed as well) 6. A mystical mentor figure that teaches the lost princess magic (Ranni did not have a godmother, but was heavily influenced by a witch. She later adopted her appearance) 7. A lost princess that marries the new ruler and lives happily ever after (...if you choose to become Ranni's consort)

[@jinji_xo]

34:15 "Those stripped of the grace of gold... will all meet death... in Messmer’s flame."

[@marshall3254]

I had just finished watching all of your videos and then you post this. The stars just aligned on this one. But what’s not a coincidence is your ability to put out the most thought out and informative lore videos on the internet. Absolutely love when you showcase the IRL examples, no other creators do that. Or at least, as well as you do.

[@bmg6229]

Same man

[@snefansson]

This video is freaking badass to watch now with the DLC having a trailer

[@MigLMariano]

This page consistently has given me jaw dropping moments from sharing their discoveries. I tend to have “truth is stranger than fiction” vibes as each crazy story and history in the Lands Between are compared to our own world. Love this page

[@Neptunequeen42]

I would raise a small objection to your dating of the Abductor Virgins to before Rykard's conversion to serpent faith. It's possible that all the serpent imagery and snake-guts interiors was retrofitted after the fact, but it seems like a lot of metalwork to add just for some extra symbolism. Due to this, I would also say that they're more likely to be modeled on Tanith than Rennala. There is the matter of them being found in Raya Lucaria as well which could imply that the school had some hand in their design, which would be a strong support for them having Rennala's face. But I think just by Occam's razor, they seem to be much more suited for chewing through enemy forces in an all-out war than for setting loose onto the streets of a subjugated populace, which makes me lean more towards the idea that they came into play during Rykard's snake era. Again, there could be retrofitting, but there's a LOT of these things rolling around out there to have to retrofit. I think this might warrant a closer look at some of those piles of discarded Abductor Virgins in certain areas of the manor and Raya Lucaria. Could we find older ones with no snakes and less war-like armaments?

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

It's funny. We argued amongst ourselves about exactly this point. Perhaps you are right. Very good forensic work!

[@Neptunequeen42]

​@@tarnishedarchaeologisthaha, I work on tanks irl so my first thought was no way in hell they're rolling out that many changes to fielded product after delivery, not to mention changing so much on the production line! Who's got the budget for all these snake guts? I will say though, the overall silhouette is reminiscent of Marika's classic pose, and definitely could imply some of the earliest designs were from a pro-erdtree standpoint. And there's no way to overlook the obvious connection to his inquisition, being modeled on a torture device. As Rykard seems to delight in depravity and violence as the Great Serpent, it could be that he enjoyed reminding the Erdtree invaders that he was once master of their own inquisition by turning a torture device into a war machine, or even found it useful to break their morale.

[@warcoder]

Maybe in the cave in Caelid with the cleanrot duo? There's a bunch of old Abductor virgins there

[@embargovenom9948]

@@warcoder Those all have snakes too, IIRC.

[@zenebean]

The abductors are found all the way in Caelid as well as Raya Lucaria, so I think they have been generally sent out to hunt for possible sacrifices, though similar ones could have been used to transport prisoners for interrogation before Rykard's turn. Whether they were retrofitted or just inspired by Rykard's inquisition, I think the symbolism of his judiciary past being transformed into a war-mongering meat transporter well represents his fall from questioning the erdtree to gluttonous violence

[@Acaran]

I feel like this video is very key to the new DLC. The main hero Messmer is a snake and flame kind of guy.

[@Mercure_en_B12]

Quite sure that Messmer in the new DLC's trailer has a link with the Snake and the Shadow Land we're going to, with heavy Crucible lore and history ! I bet we'll explore this Snake/Crucible rivalry in detail soon (+ the lion in the trailer is clearly a presence of the Crucible, with horns and scales)

[@DrFrogglePhD]

Gladiators rarely died in Rome.. it would be pretty stupid to spend years and piles of gold training guys to get them killed for a single show.

[@pyrrhusofepirus8491]

The Northern Crusades were a mix of territorial expansion, religious and moral motivation. The Pagans often raided into Poland, often for women and wives because their society was seemingly almost built to have as few women as possible (abandoning them in the woods so that chieftains could command high bride prices) and what women there were often were concentrated into harems of the chieftains. Also the human sacrifice and the pagan practice of abandoning babies outside to the elements, led to Christians wishing to eradicate the old pagans or leave the pagans in their backwater regions “leave the pagans to the brute beasts”. 5:30 Heresy isn’t just other faiths, heresy is blasphemous offshoots of a faith, to the Christians, Catharism, Gnosticism, Arianism and Islam are considered heresies, because if you’re Christian you’d have to consider these to be heresies (though the latter one is often not talked about in that way for politeness reasons). But Buddhism, Hinduism, Jainism and Aztec religion are considered pagan, because they don’t have origins in the Abrahamic tradition.

[@yfdugyu]

you mentioned the monks as traitors, but what about the gloam eyed queen, who was especifically an empyrean chosen by the 2 fingers and the mother of the godskins? i think she fits perfectly as the embodiment of a traitor to the erdtree

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

No doubt. But her story deserves its own video.

[@Slayton1978]

Which kinda explains why Marika tasked Maliketh to forcibly take the Rune of Death from the Gloam Eyed Queen and usher in the Golden Order. Perhaps the Greater Will also welcomes this as it knows that by the combination of two primeval forces (Flames of Ruin and Destined Death) would burn down the Erdtree. I was always wondering why a Godskin Noble is in Volcano Manor. Never occured to me that an alliance may have been formed.

[@VLimit11]

Yooo I appreciate the shout-out! Awesome video btw, I have no clue how you manage to work so fast😅

[@hiddenshadow2105]

Oh gods, that scene when you find Leyndell soldiers eating their own dead and not even paying attention to you. This was more haunting than any giant boss monster than was tossed at me.

[@robrib2682]

Yup, and I'd argue because of the madness they are more dangerous than any giant enemy you face either because it's the equivalent of fighting a basilisk and mob of enemies all rolled into one

[@SealableBags]

This is my absolute favourite KZbin channel at this point. Your scholarly approach to this material is amazing.

[@ThommyofThenn]

As a resident "smart guy," I appreciate the intellectual style.

[@ironmonkey349]

And here be Messmer! For sure he's the one with the snake who tried to burn the erdtree.

[@benjaminjenkins2384]

I think its very likely he succeeded, possibly causing the first burning of the erdtree

[@matiasluukkanen7718]

The notion of serpent's original betrayal seems to be bit overlooked. If gladiator armor itself refers to an older widespread story/myth everyone knew, then Eiglay's mythical betrayal predates the Crucible era itself, and probably Godfrey and even Marika. So, either Eiglay is someone who transformed into a serpent as the first primal practitioner and member of the dragon communion, and was first person in history who devoured dragon hearts. (Eating dragon hearts during Placidusax era would not go well, I think, and Eiglay shares many characteristics of magma wyrms) Or Eiglay is a draconic creature that was always a serpent. In Dark Souls, serpents were considered imperfect dragons. Perhaps Great Serpent originated from Farum Azula era as a faulty/imperfect dragon, vassal of Placidusax, omen equivalent to dragons. Then, it convinced the Numen to rebel against their Elden Lord, kill their own god producing Finger-slaying sword, and to sever Five-Fingers. In any case, story of serpent's betrayal would be as well known to people of Lands Between as Bible's serpent story is to Christians. After all, in bible, serpent's betrayal is to explain many hardships of life and how golden era was lost.

[@thunfischdobise]

I wonder how Messmer the Impaler fits into this. Great thought!

[@dynamicflashy]

You nailed it

[@starfthegreat]

Ironically, Messmer means nail in Hebrew lol

[@geordiejones5618]

You guys, Quelaag, Hawkshaw and Smoughtown are leading the charge in compiling a damn near encyclopedia of Elden Ring context. Absolutely incredible efforts by you all and so many others.

[@robertbcardoza]

Can I just say, you definitively the new king of fromsoft lore.

[@AlexGordonMusic]

Greatest lore channel on the Internet. No contest.

[@AlexGordonMusic]

@@seratoxin3825 it’s a baseless assumption or flat out wrong that there was a Norse snake Goddess named Egle? That fact alone hasn’t been stated by any other content creators, despite being a fairly obvious inspiration for the lore of the game…. Which strikes me as a content creator doing his job being interesting. And given his main area of expertise seems to be history and archeological studies…. Those disciplines aren’t Math. You don’t get deductive certainty. It’s all induction…. And I think most would agree that calling his analysis baseless assumption is a little unfair I think you may be acting a little cynical, bro Unless there are some flat out lies or misrepresentations of his that you wanna point out?

[@AlexGordonMusic]

@@seratoxin3825 dude, You’re missing the point. Assuming your correct on the point (a charity you didn’t give me btw) Anyone not pouring over the ER Reddit doesn’t know that. lore Hunter never said it. Zio never said it. Vaati never said it. Quelaag might’ve idk her videos are 12 hours long…. AgtJake never said it. Roundtable never said it. euro never said it. The list is endless. Point is that vast majority of the most influential content creators with the widest audiences never made it public, and he did…. Which he’s done with a litany of other parallels Elden ring lore has to worldly lore…. So contrary to your uncharitable assumption, I am paying attention, and despite your talent for apparently reading minds. I’m not gonna litigate the superiority of Reddit lore vs KZbin lore, or my laziness at choosing one to the other. Pretty sure your tendency towards the former would indicate that “bias” you claimed to champion avoiding before. How objective of you. My engagement with the lore is my business, and this dude is doing good work. Forgive me for admiring the charlatan you’re so justified in denigrating, sir. You’re a man of integrity. My hero. I’m actually Hardened by you right now. your final paragraph is really just a restatement of my distinction between induction and deduction in the context of reasoning within terrestrial disciplines; avoidance of bias Is literally a first principle in nearly every analytical field, besides being full of shit. Your terrestrial disciple, I take it? 😂

[@BLK_MN]

The pattern emboldened on the Preceptor’s Hat, are serpents. Quite unusual, for mages allied with the Carian Royalty, and then later Radagon himself. Wonder what the implications there are. Edit: Knowledge. The Serpent tempts with fruit from the forbidden tree in the heavens.

[@lilbuddy324]

Glad this popped on my feed after seeing the dlc trailer. Just what I need

[@BlueAsterismSolstice]

Absolutely brilliant! This coincides well with some details I've noticed and drawn conclusions from. The Inquisitors were Noble born Officials of House Marais, who were born with white hair and born of their first, a woman named Daedicar (based on the talisman Rya gives us, suggesting she had a myriad of grotesque children and enjoyed all forms of wicked pleasure, and her skin was flayed). In Mt Gelmir in that cave with the necromancer, is a shield depicting the burning Erdtree, as a taboo. And based on what Melina believes and the Blade of Calling she uses, found in a secret elevator room on the way to tbe Forbidden Path along with the Official Attire, we can trust it was such an individual who put her up to it. But this adds another piece to the puzzle to why a person in Mountops of the Giants with a giant's red hair in Marais Robes would be present before the Fire Giant.

[@matteoflamigni550]

This video even surpassed your previous works. I always speculated that maybe the "blasphemy" had to do with birthing method since your vid on the cycle of life. This one was even richer than usual in cool speculations and great historical references. Truly a great work

[@maidenlessjessofchaos4484]

How did I miss that cute little snake baby shape in the amneotic sac the first time

[@shiroamakusa8075]

I love how From Software puts so much detail in their work that you can have hours of documentaries on them which don't sound any different than those on ancient Earth history.

[@embargovenom9948]

It really is amazing.

[@fghjkcvb2614]

@@embargovenom9948 .

[@fghjkcvb2614]

@@embargovenom9948 .m

[@AlexHyena1]

I think it was in Erdtree’s Protection that stated how in the early days, “the Erdtree was opposed by all” so it wouldn’t be a stretch to assume at some point a few may have banded together in alliance; the serpent god’s, fell god’s, and gloam-eyed queen’s faithful

[@doubleh3978]

I feel like every time i need to leave a comment about how much i like this channel and the way you are able to grasp hints from the environment like a true archaeologist. Great job!!!

[@doubleh3978]

@@seratoxin3825 I don't agree with him on some points too (i don't remember what it was but there were a couple of things with which i REALLY disagree), but for the most part i think his conclusions are pretty good and i don't recall him pushing his interpretation, usually he shows the references for some statues, relieves, etc and then he tries to explain what it could mean in the game starting from there and adapting it with the lore. He can do some mistakes but i don't think his theories are baseless and they are some of the most interesting out there, while almost every other channel talks about the same things everyone already knows or the same basic theories everyone already did, at least he tries to explain some really nebulous parts of the lore. I don't know... do you have some examples on what you think he is getting wrong? I'm genuenly asking, i'm curious about what you are saying.

[@doubleh3978]

@@seratoxin3825 about the Greattree i know it was a mistranslation so i didn't agree in the beginning too... but i do think it is possible there was an actual tree before the Erdtree because of the Crucible, i think the things we have in the game (like those statues) and all the comparisons with grafting and crown sprouting in real life suggest he could be pretty close to what the Crucible actually was. I'm really conflicted about this because i know it was a mistranslation but maybe another unrecorded tree actually existed before and it was a casuality that the error in translation told something near the truth. Or maybe it was born as a crucible in the beginning, but i think we can't deny it actually looks like a tree being cut with a crown of new sprouts. So i understand where you are coming from but i don't know what to think about this.

[@doubleh3978]

@@seratoxin3825 thanks, i didn't know that the mistranslation thing was only a theory, i thought it was confirmed. So there is the possibility they actually meant that in japanese but it's not sure.

[@wakaisenshiclips7465]

It's cool to see how your channel has evolved

[@bonkatronka]

Anyone else just see the dlc trailer and realise he might have just figured everything out?

[@beansnrice321]

I was just hearing some stories about Lilith and I saw one that came from the Epic of Gilgamesh. Apparently part of Tablet XII of some Sumerian retelling of the story had Gilgamesh help a woman with her tree. Apparently the tree was building grown for a throne and at some point a snake started living at it's roots, a Anzu bird(an eagle with a lions head) was living in it's branches and a ki-sikil-lil-la-ke was living in it's trunk. Apparently ki-sikil-lil-la-ke translates to Lilith and the eagle with a lions head awfully reminds me of combined symbols of house of beasts; a lions head an storm hawks. Gilgamesh kills the snake and drives off the bird but the Lilith destroys the tree and runs into the forest. Apparently the translation was a bit forced into being considered the origins of the Jewish Lilith and was possibly translated as water spirit or even as an owl. However it wouldn't have been the first time Miyazaki has referenced Sumerian history as part of his lore. Apparently the Talmud also says that Lilith and her lover Samael were created fused together and then they separated only to later rejoin.

[@peterkoncz]

Love the connection between destined death and the flame! Melina says “The one who walks alongside flame, shall, one day meet the road of destined death.” Plus the finger reader calls the burning of the Erdtree “the ultimate sin” like it already happened.

[@awayman]

Cannot thank you enough. Truly fantastic work. Your insights are inspiring and exciting.

[@shakur745]

what he said

[@platypuspracticus2]

Random detail observation i never really noticed before but the golden beast greatshield has the same two circle motif as the ritual shield talisman and the crucible shield.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

That one is actually based off a IRL shield called the Battersea Shield, an example of La Tene culture. It fits to an example with the peri-Roman Briton inspirations of the Golden Lineage and the Crucible knights.

[@kevinoneil5120]

Man, the Erdtree burning with black flame would have looked badass.

[@Superninjajoe]

Hands down best Elden Ring videos consistently, week after week. Awesome research! Keep 'em up!

[@MrMutalala]

even in duel time of colosseum he's still found some part of the lore such a professional ethic

[@Rekennnnn]

stunning discoveries, thank you

[@michaelhair7828]

A new archeological deep dive? YES PLEASE!!!

[@justinfernandez3894]

This video aged VERY well with even just the DLC trailer drop. Crucible here we come!

[@lewisgoodman7647]

And now we have Messmer, a pale, lanky lad rocking a black-shrouded flame, decked out in winged serpents. Its as if he was furiously taking notes from this video lmao

[@f.p.2010]

it was probably rather the other way around

[@sebastiansteven9588]

@@f.p.2010how? This video is over a year old

[@f.p.2010]

​@@sebastiansteven9588 instead of Messmer taking notes from Rykard, it was probably Rykard taking notes from Messmer

[@sebastiansteven9588]

@@f.p.2010 ahh yes I see, true

[@Guided-By-Boognish]

This is exactly what i needed today. Love ya, lorebros.

[@playkapenda2074]

I’m really happy you’re putting out more content 😊

[@dreamfield92]

Coming back after the DLC story trailer. So the queen of the serpent is not just a reference for lady Tanith, but possibly also Marika herself..

[@connordavisj]

"...crusaders became armies without a nation." WHEN YOU CAN'T EVEN SAY. MY NAME.

[@kdubwines5384]

I asked in one of your other videos of you'd been listening to Hardcore History. Now I'm sure of it. 😂 Good videos and good taste.

[@davidmccormick550]

Just had a thought. Niddhogr in Norse myth was said to be a great serpent/dragon that constantly ate at the roots of Yggdrasil the world tree. It did so to contain the roots, which would cause bad things to happen should they overgrow. The Kaiden soldiers, that are one of the first tough foes you encounter look like stereotypical Norse Vikings, alongside the giants, which were divided into two groups. They were the Fire Giants of Muspellheim, which would meet Fimbulwinter’s Frost Giants at Yggdrasil’s fall. Sounds similar to the Giantflame and the cold sorcery of Liurnia. Muspellheim in particular sounds like the Frenzied Flame, wanting only destruction. Our character seems to have taken the place of Loki, born of Fire, yet claiming to be a Giant, which fought on both sides. The fact you can wield Aesir Lightning, Jotun Frost and Sutur’s flame adds to that. Both Friend and Foe to Leyndell, which resembles Asgard in this tale. Odin was also known as the Evil worker, who would do anything to prevent/win the End of Days. Sounds like Marika. Even the Fractious Demigods fit in, as the Aesir fought amongst themselves as much as against others. Kinslaying was considered one of the gravest sins, but Ragnarock would see constant war and kinslaying.

[@CreatMind]

My belief with the rivalry of the snake and the Erdtree was that Eiglay, by their devouring nature, was opossite of the Golden Order simply because it denied the Erdtree from recycling the living and their souls. Also, people are kept alive within the snake, perhaps because of the removal of death from the world, and that opens up a whole other level of conflict with the Erdtree, wich as you said rules over all matters of life and death in the current era. Ultimately, Rykard gave himself to the great serpent, seeking to suplant its power. Perhaps he knew that with his godhood, granted by his shard of the Elden Ring, he would ultimately survive his assimilation into Eiglay and that right there would be his blasphemy. He, one of the Demigods, not hewn and reborn from the Erdrtree, but granted new life within the serpent as it's master. And on top of that, we know Eiglay's true intentions from the Devourer's Scepter; to consume the world. Thus the tragedy of this whole fiasco; Rykard must consume champions to increase his power to take on Leyndell and the Erdtree itself, and perhaps they will never be enough for him to believe himself ready. And Eiglay will simply consume all while the world festers and stagnates, churming slowly down its belly.

[@Slender_Man_186]

I thought the Abductor Virgins were based off of Lady Tannith, Rykard’s consort, not his mother.

[@VAL420]

Honestly I got the vibe they are reminiscent of the GEQ, as a bridge of symbolism between the serpent and crucible, and the woman swaddling babies in godskin.

[@zackatworkshhh]

There is a mechanical similarity between destined death and black flame as well. Destined death themed weapons/spells, like the black knife and black blade, have effects that reduce max hp, and black flame spells deal some amount of base damage plus damage over time that scales with max hp, an additional effect added for Elden Ring. This change seems intentional to me, appearing as another clue hinting at the relationship between the Serpent God and the Godskin.

[@daniellesmith7515]

A tall, medium-sized wooden shield. Light for its size, and easy to handle. Thought to represent a surreptitious prophecy of cardinal sin, the lit candle-tree design was forbidden.

[@deathmurmur]

gotta re watch to unpack all this analysis

[@Eagle_SFM]

Slow work day - perfect time for an upload

[@WanderedIn]

Really great catches here - I’ve got very few qualms! It’s a great video. Though, I am curious about the Abductor Virgins. They are elaborately decorated with snakes, and are operated from within by snakes. How sure are we that the Abductor Virgins were initially constructed for the Erdtree Religion’s inquisition, rather than one of Rykard’s solutions to his knights refusing to follow him into snake worship? It seems plausible that they were sedentary torture devices during the inquisition, but when it reversed directions and took on blasphemy, they were enchanted to send out to abduct victims for the serpent cult (and to replace the diminished forces of Rykard; unlike other armies of the Shattering, his completely lacks human soldiery, relying on sorcerous mannequins, abductors, and secretly within the Manor his growing army of man-serpents). There’s a story told there, too, of Rykard’s turn away from the human population as few indeed would follow him into his blasphemy.

[@tarnishedarchaeologist]

Pleasure to see you as always. We actually debated amongst ourselves about this exact point. The term inquisition, and Rykard's role as a "ruthless justiciar" per Gideon certainly points to the religious torture preceding his conversion to the snake cult. It's possible, however, that while Ghiza's wheel dates to that time, the Abductor virgins are a later creation. Good points as always.

[@WanderedIn]

@@tarnishedarchaeologist That would makes sense - and I 100% agree that there was an inquisition before Rykard got himself swallowed. The modification of Erdtree religious groups into revivalist forms based on prior eras is a fascinating and true-to-life pattern, and is always exciting to dig into. Thanks again for the video!

[@theiberianbadger0123]

Anyone else just realize why Mt. gelmir was the most appalling battle? Not only did rykard wage his abductor virgins on the erdtree forces, after decimating them he strung them up. This I realize is significant because the bodies of those slain were unable to be absorbed into the soil and into the erdtree roots.

[@simonpelletier8047]

Can't beleive I discovered this channel last night and there's a new video out this morning, amazin!

[@Brendito1]

Jesus Dude you went full scholar for this video, I’m beyond mind boggled

[@karozoronah146]

This's so mind-blowing, but now you pointed out Rykard, banished knights and fire giants are related everything started to make sense! That can explain why we're seeing finger spiders in the mountiantops of the giants, and why the banished knights in farum azula can use fire incantations.

[@lillianhamlin6316]

This is so well done it’s insane the DLC lines up with so many of these theories. Festive grease says the festival is a tradition so old the erdtree tacitly tolerates its endurance proving the part about it being a representation of paganism

[@eddyh5]

Whats awesome is my wife knows a lot about paganism and norse mythology. So when I arrived to the windmill area, she immediately recognized the pagan practices and behavior.

[@irgendwer3610]

man, as a huge fan of history, I am dumbfounded by how much history allegory I missed when playing the game

[@coroarc8423]

amazingly done, like always. thanks so much dude

[@Graff-z4x]

Hey Tarnished Archeologist! You may already be aware but i just learned this and thought it interesting to add that Eglé the Queen of Serpents not only wound up turning all her sons into trees: oak, ash, and birch. She changed her daughter, youngest child, into a "quaking" aspen. And she turns herself into a Spruce. 🙌☀

[@ghostgate82]

I’ve been waiting for this!

[@prawn1717]

Given Rykard's relation to Ranni in her plot to cause the shattering, it's interesting how close he came to recreating the original power of the Blackflame. With a piece of Destined Death stolen, I wondered what stopped Ranni from handing it over to the serpent upon Godwyn's death? The one shard caused plenty of chaos, leading to the death of several unnamed demigods, Godwyn and Ranni's body itself. The Fingerslayer Blade reads "cannot be wielded by those without a fate", so it seems Radahn's interference not only halted Ranni's plans, but Rykard's as well.

[@gustavl3107]

Fully agree that the crew over at Tarnished Archeologist should dig deeper into the relationship between Ranni and Rykard, I'm dying to get new brain bugs on that rabbit hole. And also, how many shrimp do you have to eat?

[@prawn1717]

@@gustavl3107 Absolutely, the Carian line of the golden lineage is super interesting. I'm excited to dig deeper into the original Erdtree burning, and likely the godskins next week too though! Anything to do with Farum Azula is usually my favorite part of the lore. Before you make your skin turn pink? Hmm, tough question. Should probably ask Blackguard Big Boggart about that one!

[@gustavl3107]

@@prawn1717 ​ Boggart = Kero Kero Bonito-fan confirmed 😩

[@davidepastore5600]

I would assume Ranni didn't want Rykard to burn down the Erdtree, at least not at the beginning of the Shattering. Her plans ultimately required her to fulfill her fate as an Empyrean, become a true god and be the one to control the new Order. This required Radahan to die so that the stars could be freed, and Rykard may not have waited for that to happen before burning the Erdtree, foiling Ranni's plans.

[@spluv1]

omg YES, i love the mention of hexes. i love it. my most favorite lore of dark souls. and the creation of the chaos flame. absolutely love it.

[@Gabriel-he8uv]

34:45 messmer!!!!

[@flugga182]

this was great. I think the only thing left to explore is the connection between the blasphemous and the frenzied flame. The conspiracy to burn the erdtree must have taken a turn once the black flame was deprived of destined death, and was no longer suited to burn the erdtree. So that the main plan was to use the frenzied flame instead. The only troll that is not hanged upside down in mt gelmir is the one guarding volcano manor, and he is afflicted by madness. the spread of madness is very advanced throughout mt gelmir. I think daedicar and shabriri's foe symbolize this marriage between the serpent and the frenzied flame. Both the 3 fingers and the Blasphemous want the same thing, to burn of the erdtree.

[@Pizzifrizzo]

Nice! Mount Gelmir's story is truly as fascinating as it is understated and I'm glad you're digging into it. I've reached mostly the same conclusions, but I can't figure out what's the link between the Serpent and the Fell God, so I look forward to your theory on it! Speaking of the conquest of Gelmir by the banished knights, I assume the Gelmir Hero that's been buried on the mountain was the (yet un)banished knight who killed the Serpent. The fact that there's a Gelmir knight in the tomb leads me to believe that that's the place the knights retrieved the Serpent-hunter from, a weapon of the storm, as you point out. There's also a wild bit of speculation about a link between House Hoslow and Mount Gelmir. Diallos wields the Distinguished Greatshield, which bears an emblem that may be a more fancy variant of the Gelmir knights' crest, probably the Manor's original one. This leads some to believe House Hoslow originates from one of the Gelmir knights. Since House Hoslow is a Tarnished line, I think this idea doesn't fit with the timeline. I think that, if the greatshield's crest is indeed House Hoslow's crest, it's more likely that the Hoslows descend from the Hero of Gelmir, knight of Godfrey who killed the Serpent and whose line first claimed the Volcano Manor kept serving in the golden host until their tarnishing. Even if House Hoslow has nothing to do with the Gelmir Hero, I still think he was a banished knight who assumed lordship over the Volcano Manor until his line was tarnished along the rest of Godfrey's forces. This would help explain why there seems to be a gap in the Manor's history between the Serpent's defeat and Radagon's reign, because I'm skeptical that a (then very young) Carian prince would have received the post of Praetor right after the Serpent's defeat. Not only that, but I think this version gives Rykard the time to travel the world and meet Tanith without having to leave his duties, to form the skill and judgement necessary to perform well in his later office. Let's remember that Rykard's inquisitors were adept at torturing nobles (Inquisitor's Girandole)... this speaks of an organisation devoted to eradicating corruption/heresy from the upper echelons of power. This kind of task requires some expert mundanity to be performed incospicously and moreover it seem something that'd be more necessary in the later, more decadent Golden Order than Godfrey's Age of Plenty. This doesn't prevent a widespread religious persecution having been performed in the region, though, be it at the hands of Rykard or the Gelmir Hero. P.S.: I want to point out that I think that Oleg and Engvall, "the Wings of the Storm King" according to the original JP script, were knights defeated by Godfrey's army. I think that Godfrey is the "Grace-given Lord" Oleg's ashes speak of, an early hint of his relationship with Morgott. When talking about the traitors Oleg killed, it's likely a reference to the rebellion of Morne. And Engvall's "masterless castle" is either Morne or Stormveil, although I lean toward the latter, since I don't think Godfrey ever truly lived there, since he semms to have been tarnished soon after the events in Limgrave, and it seems that the castle was used as a backwater penal colony by the Golden Lineage until Godrick occupied it after fleeing from the capital.

[@ShupperDupper]

25:54 sorry to interject at this moment live, but i’m curious about the abductors “-likeness based on his own mother.” Where is that information founded?

[@quantumastrologer5599]

Your videos are pure quality.

[@bricknolty5478]

20:20 it's where Dracula gets his name!