The Server Meshing Lord Speaks!

CIG has run another Server Meshing test for Star Citizen! Is the new RMQ network messaging system a success?
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[@XxTheodasxX]

I’m just excited to see server meshing progress. I would take a 250 player shard with 30 Hz servers over a 500 player shard with 15 Hz servers.

[@OneTwoMark]

Yup the thing I want out of server meshing is server performance, not the same performance with more players.

[@Cam_Wight]

I think they already had 500 players with 30 server fps. Then tried 1000 and I don't think it was much worse other than some bugs!

[@Jewifer333x2]

​@@Cam_Wight they identified the issues with 1000 players, hopefully we'll see higher tickrate 1000 player servers in the next week or two. It would be rather reassuring to see 1000 player server meshing before IAE

[@sebc8938]

It seems the server meshing will also permit a decreasing of server number which would be a good thing by decreasing server cost for CIG. A lot of the issues discovered are in fact not directly linked to server meshing but of features developed for managing at most 100 players on a server. No enough hangars, elevators, cumbersome or limited chat and party system ....

[@XxTheodasxX]

@@Cam_Wight I heard server tick rate was fairly hit or miss for the 3 DGS and 500 player test.

[@fwdcnorac8574]

I spent the last year rebuilding the engine of my car. There were tons of ups and downs. One step forward and two steps back. I must have almost quit half a dozen times. Every time I thought I got it, something else went wrong. The timing was off on the pistons, the water housing was leaking at one point, etc. I was like "fuck it, I'm done". Last week, I finally got it. The engine runs really pretty now. Sounds amazing. The point is I get this software development stuff. I also have a degree in Comp Sci. I know how to code. This server meshing product is very much akin to me rebuilding my engine. The car won't run without the engine. SC won't be Star Citizen without server meshing. I can tell they got it. This is exciting stuff. Don't give up, SC fam. If it was easy, anyone would do it.

[@xequalsaech5206]

Amen!!

[@echo5827]

what engine

[@Duvoncho]

@@echo5827 Not Cryengine, he got it working! 😉

[@ephalanx1]

Right on.

[@Bartgast]

If you were saying that you made a jetplane running on water from your car, id understand the comparison.

[@snowmind]

As a fellow Briton, I'm proud listening to that subtle but obvious sarcasm straight off the bat! Well said Sir, and hats off to you from my polished monocle as well! :-)

[@cmdr_thrudd]

Yeah I love this sort of more open technical stuff from the devs. I've been here since 2012 and a bit burnt out on testing but I've been excited to jump into the server meshing test and help generate data. I hope they keep this up.

[@maxjergens]

Weekly testing is a great development; it's something we've been requesting for a long time, so there's no reason for complaints. I have my share of grievances, but this isn't one of them; in fact, I'm genuinely excited about it.

[@faristhehonest]

Great stuff like always

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

Thanks!

[@Rift_131]

I think as long as we keep seeing server meshing testing, we’re well on our way. If the testing stops, it will be a long haul.

[@blendyboi2087]

Ultimately! This all means that the release of an environment utilizing server meshing will happen before 4.0 and before pyro. But also means that 4.0 may arrive sooner than we thought. And this is the best news we can hope for. Also remember we have events, we have our seasonal patches. Like luminalia and who knows what they’ll sneak in during that time. But no need for sad faces. It’s all exponential at this point 😊

[@Reecon820]

It might be reasonable to simply add 6-9 months to the previously expected schedule for 4.0, since they probably didn't expect to have to rewrite their message queue system. So we're now basically at the point they hoped to bin at in January.

[@HarperLylia]

I'm in the camp that I dont care about getting to 1000 player servers right now. I mainly just want 4.0 to have a successful launch. 100/100 player servers would've been fine for me if it meant a more stable release.

[@BigSneed404]

I disagree. Eventually Star Citizen needs to be the MMO it has promised it would be, and there's no time like the present.

[@rayfighter]

1000 players is a horrifying vision to me

[@sebc8938]

Yes they should have gone that way to be able to deliver some parts of Pyro in advance. They have not delivered any planets since 2022 ...

[@BGIANAKy]

@@BigSneed404it can’t be. They ruined it with Master Modes

[@Guvnor100]

​@@rayfighteryou made me crack up with that comment. I'm sure you will get used to it eventually

[@FrazzleCat]

I'd happily take 30fps servers with 100 to 300 players and they just keep working on SM and Pyro. Some would complain, but some complain about anything.

[@monsieurmystere4316]

Well, I'm one of those who complain. 30fps, whether on a computer or a console (if only...), is less performant than the majority of games today in 2024. For a game that costs around $800 million in production over the years, yes, the servers need to be optimal and run smoothly. We see examples of the community being unhappy when playing games like Starfield or Destiny... so optimization must be taken into account. Still, I'm optimistic about the changes coming

[@FrazzleCat]

@@monsieurmystere4316 I said 30fps server, not frame rate. Their funds aren't sitting in a bank account and it's not specifically for Star Citizen, it's divided between two games in development across multiple studios. You're either angry to be angry, or angry because of a mixture of burn out and misunderstanding.

[@monsieurmystere4316]

@@FrazzleCat I just want to clarify that I'm not angry at all. I know the funds are being invested properly and allocated between multiple projects. However, even with that understanding, I still expect better performance in the future, with a minimum of 60fps (Server). In 2024, it's reasonable to expect this for a game of this scale, especially after so many years of development and effort. A game running at 30fps simply doesn't reflect the level of work and ambition that has gone into the project. I know for you, It looks like 60fps doen't matter but I'm optimistic. I do hope to see these improvements soon.

[@FrazzleCat]

@@monsieurmystere4316 Fair. And I don't disagree. Apparently, however, the game (NPCs, systems, etc) are all made with the goal being a server frame rate of 30fps. I'm not entirely sure what "server fps" actually is so I can't say if that's normal for an online game, I just know that it's the speed at which the server is processing data and consequently communicating that data to the players. It's not the same as the frame rate that your system can push the game at.

[@TheHorodateur]

@@monsieurmystere4316 Seems you have no idea what u r talking about. Starfield has exactly NULL Server. From that point on you can stop talkin.

[@MikePhilbin1966]

I don't like how they 'seem to be' coding this shit on the fly... after twelve years of a supposedly mmo has been in production. They're winging it, am I wrong? I mean, "It might still not work." :(

[@JRM-VSR]

I think the 6 server 1000 player configuration is the intended target for 4.0 release -- but that will be three servers in Stanton and three servers in Pyro. We *know* that Stanton struggles on one server, and that the servers can handle a lot more players when there is less area for each server. I suspect the reason that the Pyro Playtest was only half of Pyro is that the whole of Pyro does not fit in one server. It requires a minimum of two servers to run the whole of Pyro.

[@XiXGoldeyXiX]

Nice breakdown!

[@walawala-fo7ds]

Jared's "Road to 4.0" is as much of a meme as answer the call 2016

[@CBadger]

The 'Road to 4.0' series will run as long as The Simpsons before we actually get it on Live.

[@Z3RO4351]

Another great summary on teh server meshing tests, thanks! I see this as really positive overall. There was a huge improvement between Test B and Test C. I would almost go as far as to say that Test C felt better than live (even with teh caveats that that missions were stripped out and the server was fresh). You make a good point to highlight that Benoit used the words "early results", which is unfortunate. I too was hoping that, while we werent at the end, that we were at least on the tail end of teh server meshing journey. Having said that... one thing I found extremely positive is there emphasizing on rapid iteration. That will obviously be beneficial to their process, but a side effect of this rapid iteration and public testing is that, IMO, it will lift the outlook of players, especially if we see the degree of improvement we saw between B and C within many of the future iterations.

[@The_Fallen_1]

10:56 I can all but guarantee a 3.24.3 patch as we're going to need an IAE one, and 3.24.2 is looking like it might be the Citizencon one. The patches after that are harder to guess right now though.

[@sebc8938]

Even if 4.0 is done with static server meshing, I expect them to adjust the server numbers and borders manually to adapt to player spread. So this will probably be a sort of degraded dynamic server meshing with a very low reaction time. Especially, at launch of 4.0, the spread of players will be mad with everybody trying to go to Pyro at the same time (expect large traffic jams at the jumpoint) , then most of the players in Pyro before returning to a more balanced spread with Stanton after a few weeks.

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

I think they announced they would bring Pyro without server meshing before they talked to everyone. Then, after they announced it someone asked internally, "how are they going to bring Pyro without server meshing?" This prompted the reply of, "What do you mean?" They were then informed that Pyro was too large (8au I think) and had too many planets, moon, and stations to be able to run on a single server.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

8:50 Tha is not what they said... They separated JumpPoints and Server Meshing into two distinct features for their own internal organization purposes. So they can work on them in parallel, separately. That had nothing to do with CIG wanting to release Pyro and Server Meshing together in 4.0. It was solely about planning and working on separate Jira tasks.

[@omnislide]

I’m very optimistic about this, despite the frequent setbacks and delays. No other studio can afford taking such a bold risks to develop this groundbreaking server tech

[@crispy9175]

I wish more backers understood how revolutionary and different CIGs game development is. They've made mistakes... But damn they are really trying to shift the paradigm of game development and that is what the entire industry needs.

[@miguelhidalgo9372]

I must agree. This is emerging technology. Yeah, I'm losing my marbles, but watching the development was the reason I joined alpha in the first place.

[@boggeddown778]

The proper innovation and originality in the game is what made me genuinely want to support them. It's taking a long time to develop sure, but it's really looking like it's gonna be an amazing game (in like 10/20 more years lol). But I can afford to wait. Plus, it seems that they don't have the weird lefty political hangups that a lot of other companies seem to be suffering from, another big plus in my book.

[@Bubblegum_Ronin]

Of course I could be wrong here, CIG's track record definitely goes against what I'm about to "say", but I don't think it'll be as long as you mentioned (10/20 years). I think once they fully implement DSM and it's stable, the rest of the game will start to really come together much more rapidly. Also I'm sure that there's been a lot of "learning" and even perhaps their pipeline has changed several times during development. There comes a point that it all starts to come together and my gut tells me where not far away from that.. maybe 2-3 more years before DSM is in full swing and another 2-3 after that where we start to see a myriad of features start to come to the game.

[@CaptEirikr]

Pyro and SM being intrinsically linked always made sense to me; having one server run both Pyro and Stanton was never reasonable, when Stanton alone will cause a server to buckle. Honestly, if they can get us to 500-700 person shards, I'll call it a good start and would be totally fine with a 4.0 release at that scale.

[@hellow5100]

Can you post the link to the spectrum post? I can't find it when searching. Not sure why it's not included in your description..

[@ImreBertalan86]

Sidenote: How would you do a 100 player in Stanton + 100 player in Pyro PU? I don't think, that is doable. How would the servers react when you go from Pyro back to Stanton while Stantons erver is on full capacity? Would you just be in a queue?

[@SHMITGAMINGINC]

4.0 was and is dependant on server meshing. This has been the focus. Also they cant really bring the larger ships out until they can split the shards more ; the idris battle tests show this over the server loads. This has been ongoing for nearly 4 years imo

[@kaisersolo76]

i think it be quicker than what you think . regardless we are getting there

[@Spidder81]

I think they want to throw Pyro out with 500 player servers is my prediction, and once that is in and all working as intended I reckon we will start to see other systems in a faster time.

[@Guvnor100]

I think you are correct. I think the 1000 servers give better data when it comes to fault finding and they will settle on a 500 server for the first iteration.

[@benbenwilde]

Orange and green lights are a nice touch!

[@UNBE4R4BLE]

If recent trajectory of content and improvements continue, then forecasts seem very positive overall The vibe is good atm

[@AuricNova]

Even if Pyro and SM are back to being linked, that doesn't necessarily mean they need to hit massive player counts. My current prediction is still that we'll have 4.0 at least in PTU this year, but the max player count might be like 200-350. They've even said it themselves, they aren't just testing the tech, but also game systems and spaces at scale. All these systems and environments have no chance of being scaled up enough for 1000+ players in time for 4.0 (even if it gets delayed again). I think they will continue to push SM tech to its limits in PTU (separate from 4.0 considerations), then when they hit a solid wall they'll shift focus to dynamic SM. At this time other teams can get to work scaling game systems and environments up in preparation.

[@Bubblegum_Ronin]

This

[@RonPaulBot1234]

This is actually "bad" news although anyone with a software or game dev background was expecting this. It basically says they have to rewrite a bunch of foundational systems with repercussions to gameplay, this is at least 1 year away. The smart thing to do will be lock development on SC besides cosmetics and basic stuff & wait for server meshing or a stable version of it. This branching will rewrite deep systems, implementing other features in the main branch will force most of these to be all rewritten in order to merge it back together and will be a pain in the ass.

[@Burty117]

How do you join in on these technical tests? I've got the game installed and everything, where's the option to join on the technical tests?

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

TECH-PREVIEW will appear as an option in the launcher when these events are on- keep an eye on spectrum or reddit to find out when they are running!

[@Burty117]

@@tenpoundfortytwo Thanks, so in the launcher, it'll be an option where "Live" currently is? I'll most certainly try and keep an eye out.

[@tenpoundfortytwo]

@@Burty117 yep in the launcher!

[@JohnVanderbeck]

I really wish when creators make videos reading posts that they'd provide the links to the posts.

[@Kessra]

I'm not sure why we as players should be concerned about how many players ultimately fit on a server. In the end, their goal is to move on to dynamic server meshing anyway and at that time it should be completely transparent on which shard a player exactly is. If to many players are in the boundaries of a single shard, an other one will take over some of the load then. The only one really having an interest to get as many players on a single shard as possible is CIG as the more server they have to spin up, the more they ultimately have to pay for the runtime. To many servers running might also have an impact on backing services which might slow down due to too many open connections and simultaneous queries. But this is what CIG currently tries to figure out and see where the upper limits and bottlenecks of each systems currently are and whether they have options left to improve performance. The bigger issue CIG has to address in near future is the de facto rapid degeneration of servers. You clearly can feel the difference between being on a fresh one or one that runs already for days. CIG even stated that servers are performing poor due to a lot of open connections after several hours/days which often time results in long waiting times and unstable behavior.

[@Anonnymouse53]

Developing this kind of back end tech and then integrate it to an already complicated product with hundreds of systems is just the worst case scenario for expedience and user QoL it feels. But that horse has bolted over the river of spilt milk. Hopefully this really is (finally, this time we promise) the last big leap they need to make before settling into just regular insane early access development. IMO We're still a year or two away from the start-line, but I signed up for ambitious goals, so here it is. I seriously doubt Static/Dynamic Server Meshing is going to be a silver bullet that will suddenly jump start our experience, but it will hopefully allow them to start finishing systems instead of gluing them together every patch. I wish them luck.

[@Billy-bc8pk]

They never actually sdaid they were considering separating Pyro from server meshing and delivering it separately, that was just something that content creators began spreading as a rumour based on misinterpretations about how they were developing the technology and the microservices needed to test both systems separately and together, but Pyro was to server meshing what salvage was to PES. THey have always been linked as tech milestones with one another.

[@fnunez]

Expecting anything other than 3.24.x or 3.25 by Citizencon is pure uncut hopium. I think a realistic take is that we'll have a 4.0 tech preview by december and stable meshing builds by the middle of next year.

[@sebc8938]

This looks very good for the future. Nevertheless, I think it was an error to link Pyro and server meshing. Because of that, they have not delivered any new planet since more than 2 years while they have already developed them with a lot of assets. Moreover planetary tech is one of the best feature of this game so this was very detrimental to its image. They could have just create some independant serevrs for Pyro to begin testing it since a few years.

[@CitizenScott]

Sick hoodie 🤙 is it server mesh lined?

[@Fluke2SS]

One thing people have to understand as well. 1000 player server mesh is not even close to the tip of the iceberg. Lets say out of 5 million backers there are 2.5 million people who play. They have to further mesh those 1000 player server meshes into a larger single shard mesh so that all 2.5 million backers play on the same single server. This is not even close to being done. But what they are doing is the basis to make that hierarchy work as a single shard universe. The idea is to break apart the single shard into smaller shards on separate servers. What they will do in the future is link each of the 1000 player shards together to form a single shard experience. Now imagine the number of server meshes they have to run. If 6 servers hold 1000 people, how many servers will they need for 2.5 million players? Simple: Rule of 10. Remove 1 zero from 2,500,000 servers, and that is the number of actual server meshes. Or 2,500 server meshes x 6 servers total or: 15,000 servers total. Anyone want to guess how much money per month that is to maintain? A long time ago to give you some context on bandwidth usage per player: In an average game of Quake: Each client used about 16Kb/sec of bandwidth at any given time. Multiply that by 2,500,000 or about 40,000,000 bits / second of bandwidth. 40Mb/sec Now these numbers are based on bandwidth usage from 20 years ago, and does not take into count modern games with modern graphics systems. The rule in networking is: Graphics/pictures and Audio are the two biggest streaming files you can do with your internet bandwidth. And further when it comes to bandwidth slow downs: Multiple smaller files take longer to transfer than single file Video/Audio streams. That however is due to server build infrastructures in terms of hardware and local server transfer rates. Here's real fun part: Those 15,000 servers needed to run 2.5 million people on a single shard experience: Multiply that by each star system in Star Citizen, so 15,000 x 100 or 1,500,000 total servers need to be running for 2.5 million people to play at one time. Now factor in the cost to maintain those servers! Now the mind blowing part, the odds of 2.5 million players being in the same area of the game at any given time is going to be a super rare occurrence if not borderline impossible, so the idea of "Dynamic Server Meshing" is such that servers spin up as population load increases in given areas of the game, or spins down servers as population decreases in given areas of the game. So there is some cost savings there, how much remains to be seen, and obviously not all 2.5 million players are going to play at the same time in the same area of the game. Hence: Geographical server locations for server meshes: U.S. EU Asia, AU They'd have to open more geographical locations to reduce the number of servers running at the same to effectively reduce cost to operate. God forbid they ever run a server wide event though lol!

[@sebc8938]

50% of backers in the game seems very optimistic. 25% in the worst case I think when there is a special event. And maybe 10% usually maximum. They probably rent servers from Amazon or other cloud provider. And the performance of servers is also improving with time.

[@Fluke2SS]

@@sebc8938 Remember the game has not officially launched. Everyone who has gamed before knows what a launch day is. So no it is not actually far fetched. Should go look up what a normal popular MMO game is in terms of numbers at any given time. Right now in SC an average of 30,000 players play SC at any given time. Now factor in a finished product launch day.

[@GhostofZuuzGaming]

Server meshing being the biggest single tech feature of star citizen is probably the hardest part of the game development. There is alot of code to go through and alot of unknowns. The last test was much better than the first test earlier this year but its far from perfect. Still alot of delay with terminals and hangers but seems to be more of a problem that in space. We had a 890j with 120 players on it at lorville and ran but was very jumpy and delayed, but same ship with 120 players in space it ran much better, seems more responsive. SM still needs alot more work to make 4.0 Live

[@reverendzombie72]

What? You thought we would get 4.0 by CitizenCon? 😂😂 I am very optimistic and hope it will be live before the end of the year.

[@Jac70]

My GPU broke about 18 months ago. After a year I had it repaired, jumped into SC and found that not much had changed. Then the thing went bad again so no gaming for me. Honestly, I am not sure they can do the SM thing and after waiting near 10 years I am not sure I really care anymore.

[@mattvmalone]

They just did.....

[@talonodyssey]

I am surprised server meshing was not deemed to be dependent on pyro existing. The only way any significant expansion can happen is for server meshing to exist, hell without server meshing the game cannot exist.

[@BGIANAKy]

Is it going to make master modes fun though?

[@tacboy78ify]

There's just no way 4.0 comes this year. That MMQ problem set us back big time

[@Nubbley]

1000 player shards doesnt really mean much if theres no gameplay. they need NPC drop ships that drop you into an active warzone or territory. something! bunkers dont get players interacting with each other.

[@MeoithTheSecond]

I'd be fine if they just gradually upped the player count alittle bit with the tech providing its stable enough, it doesn't have to be 500 or what ever while they continue to improve its ability to handle more players. Don't need drastic large number of players on a server right out the gate once the tech goes live.

[@dtrjones]

Yeah I thought the same as you, 1xDGS and 100 players in Stanton and 1xDGS and 100 players in Pyro, get 4.0 out the door. The issue with that is, if you have an event and everybody goes to the same star system, if the server can't cope, you are screwed. I say to hell with that because you're going to have that problem all the way up to the point where you really have true dynamic server meshing, I.e. multiple servers can own the same location on demand. The only way forward is to perhaps limit the player count to 150 and gate the release of players across the system. It's admirable they are doing a more thorough test, but like you said, when does this end?... Not in 2024 that's for sure and maybe not even in 2025.

[@AlbertoMartinez765]

Test test test server meshing, That's all we have asked for its been the Bottleneck for 3 years now lets GO

[@captain-hooked]

Interesting that they are pushing for higher player counts for the 4.0 release. I thought as you they may push 4.0 with a low player count. Even 100 in total across both systems. That still may be a plan b, but it certainly does look like they want a 500 player limit release

[@parkerxgps]

Sounds like a much slower go than I thought. Maybe they didn't think adding a lot of load to the system with multiple shards would scale? Kinda confusing, if not disappointing.

[@nathanielescudero5379]

They're trying to change the world of gaming. I'm happy with deep testing before release and if they can give us a stable working 3.24.2 until then at least we have somewhere to play and hang out until the next stage is ready.

[@DjangoLowe]

This is very positive, but the delays are likely. It does make me think that they can get server meshing in at a 200 or so shard just to get pyro our the door and then ramp up on server meshing later. I would be happy with that just to make the world a little bigger and to see what unseen issues that are doomed to happen after release.

[@sebc8938]

As everyone will try to go to Pyro, I expect at least at first one server for Stanton and at least two servers for Pyro. Then they will maybe change the repartition more equally if players are spreading well.

[@Sieztt]

That sounds like a 3.18 repeat. Horrible idea.

[@DjangoLowe]

@@Sieztt I somewhat agree, but like with 3.18 it doesn't matter how much testing they are going to do, it going to fail anyway at scale. The only way to get to scale is to release it.

[@Nyzrael]

Wasn't your fault, Jared and ISC kept 'hinting' that work was coming along faster than anticipated and there was a good chance of it coming pre-citcon. This is the main reason for you and most everyone having thought it was coming at leas this year. Now we know, it wont be until next fall if we are lucky. Pure speculation but logically probable: A.I. when asked, speculates 5 years from this the day of this message, for a prototype version of dynamic server meshing to be playable, given CIG track record and current progress.

[@Maverrick2140]

i am relatively sure that while CiG will try to avoid a 3.25 .. we most likely will see one happen .. or rather .. i rather want to have a 3.25 on LIVE than a 4.0 that doesn't work ... A 4.0 "demo" even if its a limited one on open PTU for a while or as Tech-Preview for citizen con to show off all the nice new things .. while keeping the live version stable. i guess my prediction of 4.0 on live at or around april 2025 is more realistic ^^

[@lights4bre890]

3.24.2 is on the 4.0 code branch so the migration has begun

[@tomfoolery1967]

I don't even care about it being an MMO anymore, to be perfectly honest. I just want something playable without the horrific desync and game wrecking bugs every couple minutes. I'd rather have a 10 player Co-Op against AI and an actual game, then a permanent tech demo for some future "MMO".

[@DJCroBar]

This

[@Hitsugaea]

I think I’m the opposite on this! I think the grand vision and the ground breaking tech is what sets CIG apart and is the reason I play SC over one of the other space sims that are more feature complete as of now.

[@gbreuil1]

All players want a space mmo not a coop vs ia ?? This is litterally the child of Freelancer

[@mattvmalone]

The game is in alpha.....😂

[@Tbm147]

UE6 is in early access next year and according to Tim Sweeney, will have Server Meshing. CIG is going to get lapped by an Asian developer soon.

[@bangyahead1]

As Ive said before to those overdosing on hopium: There are lots of numbers between 3.24 and 4.0, such as, 3.24.2, 3.24.3 and so on, till you get to 3.25, 3.25.1, 3.25.2 etcetera. You're deluded if you think the game is going to go straight from 3.24 to 4.0. 4.0 will be ready..... when it's ready.

[@Sieztt]

We'll likely know for sure by Citizencon, either they announce a delay or some form of confirmation.

[@XxXnonameAsDXxX]

I'd prefer if they could increase the player counts to 250 until the end of next year with client and server improvements + vulkan. I don't really care about pyro, meshing and tech, I just want the game to work better on older rigs like mine with smoother experience. Having more to do is great news but social aspect of the game is like tier minus 12 at the moment.

[@nataliesantana3309]

1000s per shard seems wild but I guess I don’t know how “big” they plan the shards to be. Example: if New Babbage is a shard it’s completely unnecessary to have 1000 players there. Maybe even 100 could be a lot for the scale. If it’s the entire Microtech orbital area, maybe several hundred is enough. If it’s per solar system then ya, maybe 1000 is closer to appropriate but that still seems like a LOT when you compare to other MMOs. So I guess pushing for bigger numbers might be also more appropriate depending on the system. Terra and high sec/starter areas seem like the prime candidates to see tons of traffic. Pyro…does it need 1000 players in the whole system? Who knows.

[@Tsudico]

A shard is defined as the whole game universe so it would include however many solar systems are in the game at that release. The reason they base total players on the shard and not per server is that it could cause overloaded servers if the people who were spread across the verse went to one place for an event, like Xenothreat, so each server has to be able to handle the total load right now. This might not be the case when they get the dynamic mesh up and running because they could change which zones each server has authority over while the servers are running to make sure that any one server does not go over the player/performance cap that they set.

[@Shawwink]

Sure server meshing seems nice, but the current play loops are so bugged its difficult to do anything.

[@sebc8938]

The issue is that cargo is the basis of the game. And now it involves many more consoles, UI, elevators, cargo grids, links to missions, etc. So a lot of opportunities for many new bugs.

[@fritzbrause1024]

Danke für das Video

[@angepano8591]

I've continued to assume that Pyro / 4.0 has no ETA until it is in Evo. Could be this year, could be 2026. I refuse to get myself into thinking of a date. But honestly, I am caring a lot less lately because of the gameplay changes they are making. I am not even sure anymore that SC is a game that I want to play.

[@BaijiniBandit]

I don’t even care if 4.0 gets pushed at this point as long as it’s released playable. My only concern is when all the branches start to merge what new issues likely come up. Merging can be the absolute most terrifying part of programming, at least to me lol No matter what though, the tech they are coming up with will affect way more than just sc. this has been the biggest issue with the mmo genre, the servers. How do they scale to allow higher player counts and more consistent performance. Still though, I hope it really is going as well as they make it sound. Ready to touch down in Pyro.

[@thorns]

As long as they don't start saying "join us on the road to server meshing" because then we know it's at least 4 more years... or more because the road to pyro is still ongoing.

[@Bubblegum_Ronin]

"Upcoming" server meshing tests..

[@charactersmoreorthree]

I know SC is heavy on keybinds, but I prefer to have player markers invisible and then an option to see who's who with a keybind. It spoils my immersion with all the names and markers constantly dangling over people's heads.

[@demonicsquid7217]

Only ever seen markers when in a party...

[@starcitizenchill5045]

looooord of server meshing :D

[@NateFromIT]

I'll take stable working 400 player servers for now if we can get it.

[@Tainted-Soul]

I wouldnt mind If they told us the problems and the work they are trying to do. It is the Silence they make us make our own crap up

[@zantrag]

Where they are right now, with server meshing; is where I thought they were LAST Citizen Con.... oh well. "Improving your gaming experience." Should be easy, since the game is essentially unplayable right now. By next Citizen Con... in 2025, we should hopefully see stable gameplay, with at least 200 players/shard.

[@mattvmalone]

Literally thousands of players would slap you rn. "Unplayable" 😂

[@LucidStrike]

They FLOATED the idea of delivering Pyro seperately from server meshing a long time ago, and it became obvious a long time ago that they'd decided against it. Not a new development. 🤷🏿‍♂️

[@Winterx69]

🤔Why don't they use one 7th server exclusively comprising the entire jump point and the entry/exit points on both sides of the tunnel? This way, crossing servers would take place somewhere on route to and from the gateway stations, overlapping (!) server authority boundaries while ships are travelling in Quantum, instead of having people waiting to cross over at the edge between two star systems... - add a 7th server!

[@vulcan4d]

Stat Citizen is the longest demo in history. Looking forward to Squadron 42 more at least in the short term. In the long term they can keep working on the tech as long as there is funding.

[@--Richard--]

3.25 when?

[@YTB_JSNFARRELL]

The next generation will be playing Star Citizen on our pledges at this pace.

[@benwer9857]

Pyro and Nynx for Xmas !

[@CBadger]

Which year? 😂

[@danny1988221]

Yeah thats the issue.. spread out it works great but events that will bring hundreds or thousands to one area, thats where i think they will have problems.

[@cmdr_stretchedguy]

I suspect 2 possibilities: 1. they use citcon as an excuse to release a very buggy laggy 4.0 (low likelihood), OR 2. 4.0 finally releases end of year/after the new year saying they needed time to test and fix, and still releases as very buggy laggy mess. Either way it will be a shit show like usual.

[@reamoinmcdonachadh9519]

4.0 was NEVER going to hit Evocati PTU prior to Cit Con, or even during Cit Con. IF it is to hit the Evocati PTU at all this year, it will be or would be during the Holiday period, thus fulfilling CIG'S stated aim of 4.0 by year's end. Personally, seeing as 3.24.2 is about to enter Evocati PTU and if ANYTHING LIKE 3.24.1 will spend considerable time there before hitting Wave 1 and a possible Point Patch 3.24.2a to cover I.A.E. I don't see 4.0 happening until near year's end, and if not that, then Q1 2025.

[@cyvan1750]

3.24 took long because of the cargo/inventory changes that fundamentally changed how we all interact with the game. 3.24.2 doesn't have anything that drastic . It's just the Zeus's , New caves and the MFD rework.

[@rooster1012]

@@cyvan1750 Hangers and elevators are still broken so they will need to be fixed during the 3.24 patch cycle as it is delaying 4.0 as per CIG.

[@cyvan1750]

@@rooster1012 which has been ongoing and is separate from the features they're pushing in 3.24.2. Those fixes will be pushed to live as soon as they're ready and added to 3.24.2 in the PTU . Still a lot less drastic changes than the introduction of 3.24. But only time will tell.

[@MrClydie_Po_Po]

What's a shard? Noob, here. Cheers!

[@Bland-79]

You seem to forget they have supposedly been working on the server meshing for years now. At some point people need to start holding CIG accountable or this game will never be finished. Since CIG is now mostly based in Britain where saying something on social media the leaders don't like can get you a prison sentence yet a Muslim man can get away with R @ p e I really don't have much hope for this game anymore. They only moved most of the development and leadership to Britain because they can freely use those laws to shut down any argument on this.

[@sketto1283]

Oh boy. I'm optimistic, but concerned for the end of the year! If no SM, what do we get in Q4? Mid 2025 for 4.0, that's a rough statement to imagine.

[@Crittek]

I remember when I was saying back in April we won’t get 4.0 until Q1 25’ how much SHIT I got for saying that. Well well well

[@piedpiper1172]

Quite the optimist you are.

[@demonicsquid7217]

Well done, your parents must be proud of you.

[@RN1441]

@8:00 'Quite an early version of server meshing' yet years behind schedule.

[@jonathanrees8288]

Going to call it now. Server meshing will not be to evo before Citizencon 2025.

[@jonlorber5911]

A thousand ships in one area alone would not be achieve since each could have a dozen or more players. It’s just an insane amount of rendering and networking. Sounds impossible even for clients to render Nevermind the servers to run it.

[@The_Opinion_of_Matt]

Well, we do know that weeks is more than one. lol

[@JagHiroshi]

These bottlenecks sound very much like running through doors in the MSR. Endless.

[@sebc8938]

Maybe they could open spawning to planet or Lagrange points space stations at first 4.0 launch to prevent traffic jams in the metro system and airports.

[@Thor_Asgard_]

Everyone that thinks 4.0 in the next year is clinically insane. CIG has a track record and we all know that they cant get anything besides timesinks done.

[@bes12000]

Server meshing has been a thing in some way shape of form since the 2000's with games like Dark Age of Camelot, so them struggling this bad about it is odd, it's taking so long..

[@chrisjansen1943]

Disappointing timeline is like this game's bread and butter. I've never had a game that was in alpha for 10 years. Now on top of that, the engine and game tech are outdated. Sadly, it's time for the game to die.

[@dtm4trix]

I'm just wondering if they just started working on this, this year? Man they've been talking about this for 3 years.....why are they just starting to work on it this year? I really don't think CIG is honest with its player base when it comes to the general development of this game.

[@toecutter9372]

I think we’re going to relive the 3.18 days all over again but it’s gonna be twice as long. I picture 2025 to be the entire year of server missing tests and sad faces. Awesome video by the way 10 pound you the man.

[@Bartgast]

Pyro is only 2 years away... as always

[@maciejilski7185]

Screw new features. Polish the existing features.

[@mattvmalone]

Or you know, take some time to understand wtf is going on before commenting 😂

[@LuluGamingDK]

I feel like we will still see 4.0 PTU by end of the year, with at lest 500 players meshed servers , that STILL a big jump fowered, and if you ask me the right move for testing.

[@loadingerror9975]

they need to get squadron out. If they are confident its good, which i think they are, they need to get it out. If they release that they will basically get a full year pass from the community and will make alot of money and get a ton of publicity. unfortunately if it is not good or is just meh it might ruin the company as it has been touted as a main hold up in why the game has taken so long.

[@demonicsquid7217]

...and as most people seem to forget, SQ42 was what we backed originally, the PU was just a stretch goal.

[@playakoz]

4.0 - May 2025

[@hirmor666]

Server meshing? Two more years 😂

[@77wolfking]

4.0 is cooked