The Shanaplan | The Steve Dangle Podcast

On this episode of The Steve Dangle Podcast,
00:00 Brendan Shanahan details the timeline of Kyle Dubas' termination
1:32:30 You Can Bet that With Sports Interaction
1:37:30 The Florida Panthers can't stop winning hockey games
Recorded: May 23, 2023
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[@bimjenning6962]

been loving the longer shows boys, 2 hours is fantastic

[@jred1817]

That's what she said

[@Madbro204]

Especially when there’s nothing to watch and listen to

[@badm0t0rf1ng3r]

1 hour 30 minutes to just over 2 is such a sweet spot for these guys.

[@curseyoujordanshow]

Shanahan wears that jacket like a cardigan. He looks like an exhausted dad sitting down to have a frank discussion with his kids about drugs.

[@chez0102]

So for half a second I actually thought he was gonna be there

[@andrewnelson7010]

Amen

[@dickbiggerjr3613]

He ain't got the stones

[@youdontgottheguts]

We've been mislead, and possibly bamboozled!

[@people3865]

​@@dickbiggerjr3613I'm sure he does, but he doesn't need to do small time podcasts lol

[@DR.DisInfect]

Who

[@saskcch]

"Sweeps have gone out of style" The 2022 Colorado Avalanche "What, I am joke to you?"

[@platapus112]

Dubas: "It's gonna be really hard to see me anywhere else" Penguins: $$$$ Dubas: You have my interest

[@theevilascotcompany9255]

"Gentlemen, you had my curiosity, now you have my attention."

[@QuazarCyclone99]

I don't think Dubas is gonna get the power he wants from the penguins. sullivan seems to have a lot of sway with FSG he won the power struggle with hextall and Burke which has only seemed to empower sullivan

[@stellaroj]

​@QuazarCyclone99 in the FSG media availability, they said that coaching changes would be left up to the GM. Sullivan wasn't as responsible for the last few seasons as Hextall, but there should be no guarantee that he remains.

[@alexanderh.999]

No one wants a bad gm like dubas. Are you joking??

[@GoenShowa]

Penguins: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Dubas: Now you have my attention.

[@shrubbber_8]

He said, I’m not sure I want to be the Toronto Maple Leafs GM. What more do you need?

[@yaboyCombo]

Yeah he dug his own grave with that comment. He probably regrets saying that.

[@thetank5642]

Like seriously these guys can’t tell the difference between doing a good job and wanting to continue doing your job

[@B2Roland]

​@@thetank5642 they're so far in the weeds man. The guy wasn't even that great at his job ffs. I feel for the new guy having to clean this mess up tbh.

[@DonBradyJr]

The only thing missing from the Dubas Family statement was hand and paw prints at the bottom.

[@warrengoatse238]

When Dubas said its the "Leafs or bust", he meant if he walked away from the job. He was pointedly let go by management. I think his pledge was absolutely contingent on it being of his own volition.

[@needmorecowbell6895]

I would agree if he never brought up how hard the job was on his family. What's changed with his family?

[@ellah6188]

⁠@@needmorecowbell6895 it seemed like he wasn’t sure if his family could do it or not at the time, it wasn’t a done deal either way. If he wanted to go back to the leafs I’d assume that means the family decided they could handle it after the locker clean out press conference.

[@needmorecowbell6895]

@@ellah6188 Well again, what changed for his family other than a counter offer by his agent? Dubas didn't take time off. He hasn't taken family leave. Because it feels like the wife and family are on board if you put a couple mil on that offer and get Shanny off my back. That happens with wives. If I told my wife I had to make a work move, she wouldn't be very happy about it. But if it comes with a raise and a new title, she may feel very different about it.

[@Noordhof]

@@needmorecowbell6895 Nothing has changed with his family. He was deciding between Leafs or time off. Now he is deciding between try another team or time off.

[@needmorecowbell6895]

@@Noordhof Except that's not the timeline. He emailed Shanahan to say that he wanted to be GM of the Leafs. So family problem went away. Why is it back?

[@supasnake8138]

Yes the Panthers are up 3-0. But the games have been insanely close. No game has felt like a waste of time to watch. I wish they would make emphasis on that rather than "No Candian cares bout these teams". Its been great hockey.

[@jesseyules]

Plus half the players on any given team are Canadians. It's a Canadian sport regardless of where the franchises cash their cheques.

[@JohnnyLREACTS]

I'm Canadian and I don't care about those teams.

[@Tarcanza]

@@JohnnyLREACTS K cool fine you're Canadian. But you're clearly not a hockey fan 😂

[@BelgotLeons]

Insanely close but at the end of the day even hours after the games the shadow and echoes of the name Sergei Bobrovski still reign supreme in both arenas they tripped and let the leafs get one lucky win carolina ain't that lucky close does not always mean equal

[@BelgotLeons]

​@Johnny L im canadian and i care alot about my favorite sport wheter my boys are in it or not (eliminated sadly 😅)

[@matthewmccallum3479]

The balls to say Marc Bergevin isn’t a good GM? What do you have to do, lose in the first round every year? Unreal.

[@tyraelhermosa]

So here’s what I notice: younger people are tending to side with Dubas; older people are tending to side with Shanahan.

[@user-xz8uz7lb5y]

You missed the fact that the contract was offered in March and Dubas put them off. I suspect he thought the team would do better in the playoffs and he would leverage that to get more money. When that didn’t happen he used a different tactic and it backfired.

[@bbvududaddi7216]

💯

[@stangsswang8355]

yep

[@B2Roland]

Yeah he over played his cards with Brendan shanahan of all people.

[@jonjohnson1978.]

12:14 wrong ...he also stated how dubas was unsure he wanted to remain GM in his press conference which made him reconsider

[@bk04ft]

Is Shanahan, like, contractually obligated to say "His office, at the Ford Performance Center?"

[@Mordraith]

it kind of sounds like the "poor" Performance Center.

[@kylemillard8104]

"Carolina will easily handle the panthers" Jesse Blake last week. Dude farms L's

[@jeffb7244]

never trust jesse predictions :P

[@Wuwoot9863]

Channelling his inner Charles Barkley.

[@Mikeybhoy14]

Played nhl 23 franchise mode too much 😂

[@YuseiFaRO46]

incapable of having a good take all playoffs its hilarious

[@_easymoneysniper_]

Love how he’s joking about his takes when he’s wrong but gives himself credit when he’s right

[@johnbiggar7889]

Brandon: Gary who should I hire as GM? Gary: I think you should hire George Parros.

[@MuskokaMatt91]

Oh god 😂😂

[@mikefarino4368]

The islanders tried to sign Tavares the second he was eligible for an extension, he is the one that said he wanted to wait steve

[@joes8244]

When Matthews does the Tavares to the leafs maybe they will understand better.

[@sebastiencarrieres8825]

No, they will complain the refs did them dirty!

[@bryanwouters443]

cry baby chesse

[@sempcast]

I laughed really loud (lol) when I saw the thumbnail of Shanny, like he was an in-person guest on your show!! :)

[@doggosplosion]

Dubas: Shanahan did me a dirty, but I'll take the high road in spite of the organization. Fleury: First time, huh?

[@NIGHTBREED3R]

😂😂😂👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[@MeatballSandwich1]

Thanks guys, I love having this pod to listen to while at work

[@briseisjay7898]

I want Shanahan to go on TSN and say “Kyle Dubas screwed Kyle Dubas!” 😂😂

[@bensmith235]

Mad respect to SD for sharing his considerate pov on the idea of Quinneville being hired as head coach.

[@nowheresddpage3066]

OMG these guys .... Everything is speculation in these video. Brilliant corporate move firing Dubas. MLSE has successful taking any heat and anger away from the players. Dangle is the only one with an emotional decision. 200 million dollar corporation do not let people who have 7 years of failure and the worst negotiating skill in history run the company. This is how Dubas negotiates his contract and the same guy is suppose to resign Matthews????

[@dullestpenguin4151]

Jesse has this dead on, both guys can't have the same role with the team. Shanny would be stupid to give up control and Kyle would be dumb to stay on without it. Both guys are right.

[@andyvulhop]

My read is Dubas wanted more authority and autonomy, and was in a take-it-or-leave-it mood about the job. Either give me everything I want, or I'm done here. No half measures.

[@dougstevenson1503]

If the reports are to believed that he's been blocked from making certain moves and has been forced to make others, I can't say that I blame the guy for wanting the autonomy. Can't really execute your own vision with somebody over your shoulder constantly changing it.

[@scallaghan61]

I feel like Dubas simply overplayed his hand for money and control. Maybe thought the team would think differently when they thought about a future without him as GM

[@scallaghan61]

@Reed Miller Thats what Dubas has left up to speculation for us. Did he actually think this was the likely result? Did he feel the pressure he added make the board more likely to grant his wish of more control? The boys made a good point of how he basically presented a contract to his boss that mostly makes his boss not needed, thats a tough sell.

[@bajjanitor]

@@scallaghan61 "The boys made a good point of how he basically presented a contract to his boss that mostly makes his boss not needed, thats a tough sell." Remember that's complete speculation. It was in the form of an email from Dubas to Shanahan and neither of them have disclosed any of the contents of the contract.

[@brian______]

I'm a Blues fan, I just listen cause you guys are entertaining. Your point about it being a corporate play and Shanahan making himself expendable with an increase in responsibility given to Dubas is why I don't see Doug Armstrong going to Toronto. He's President of hockey ops and GM, with just Tom Stillman to answer to, who trusts him wholeheartedly. Admittedly Toronto is a much more prestigious market, but he'd be signing up to be way farther down the totem pole and at risk of ending up like Dubas just did. He could always take a demotion with a large pay raise, but I'd have to think that pay raise would have to be very significant to make him want to go.

[@wilgeman6784]

Very good points. LGB

[@mattf6397]

I just read the stl post about this situation. It doesn't make sense for the Blues allow Toronto to talk to Army. It would leave a huge hole weeks before the biggest draft the Blues have seen in 15 years or so.

[@adam_wylde]

I couldn't agree more Brian. I can't see why any GM who's had a track record of success would want it based on the current structure

[@remi-D]

moving on Friday and needed something in the background to pack to, thank you!

[@TheFlizash]

That makes two of us! Good Luck on your move and the future

[@remi-D]

@@TheFlizash Same to you!

[@keerthan99]

That initial segment about Shanahan was very insightful boys! Absolute class👏🏽

[@kylef4357]

3:04 the way Adam says the word "remember" LOL

[@widehalk]

Steve: Gardiner wrecking the Leafs again 💀

[@disinformationworld9378]

It really sounds like you guys quite frankly are missing the point. There are certain facts that aren’t open for debate. 1. Dubas went against advice and spoke to the media during a contract negotiation 2. Dubas said he wasn’t sure if he wanted to come back during a contract negotiation 3. Dubas never mentioned or brought up that he was in the process of negotiating a contract-a deliberate omission. 4. He then demanded more in the contract negotiation after speaking to the media. Guys, you are focussing on all the wrong things. None of this is acceptable. Start with saying not sure if he wants to be here. That alone is grounds for dismissal, I am sorry. He negotiated himself out of a job. You don’t go and play games like this and what is the team supposed to do? Oh you aren’t sure if you wanted to be here, but here’s everything you asked for? I am sorry but this was completely inexcusable and unprofessional and it is clear that the Leafs likely viewed it that way. Dubas-as a fan I don’t want to hear you don’t want to be here. That’s not being all in on the team. It doesn’t matter if the team liked Dubas, it’s the games and wishy washy nonsense that pisses me off. How about some emotion about the job and getting the job done? Where was that? He played around and found out. What kind of message does that send to the organization if you say you aren’t sure if you want to be here and then reward that with a big raise immediately after saying that? How could you guys be so dense and not see the problem with that? Show me another manager in pro sports who did that if you think it’s just “one” small issue there. Come on. He left the team with no reason to take him back. Shanahan’s conference was to make this clear to the public what the breakdown was and why he wouldn’t be back. And I appreciated the detail even if it is “one-side” some facts are not open for debate as I have articulated here. See, in the beginning I was pissed that Dubas was fired but it isn’t “just” what Shanahan said that matters, there are certain agreed upon facts that paint a very clear read between the lines here. I did not like the Dubas press conference and it left a bad impression on me. Sure you can have family issues, but a contract negotiation and season ending press conference with the media is not where you make those issues front and center. He could have gone public with that at any time. He chose the final press conference as manager to do it. Harsh, but this is simply ridiculous to do that while negotiating a contract. Sorry.

[@disinformationworld9378]

If you want to build a Stanley cup winner culture starts at the freaking top. Not sure I want to continue? What did Shanahan say when questioning Kyle about his commitment to the Leafs? More questions than answers. You don’t build a championship team without full buy in top to bottom. That’s a team culture issue. If you want wishy washy players and management that’s a bottom feeder mentality. If I am hearing players don’t know if they want to be here, do you think the Leafs will win the Stanly cup with those players? Give me players and management with a burning desire to win and do the job for the freaking Leafs.

[@evinrock5717]

Dubas wears most of this.

[@jonasgorea3823]

This is perfect timing lmao

[@assidoashd]

Pumped for this episode boys

[@TheHarjinderaheer]

Matthews hasn’t won more than 1 round. Gilmour better playoff stats than Matthews.

[@Bozzz71]

I see Darcy and Tucker (the lights) are trying to get their air time. Basically becoming tradition at this point. 😂

[@deadlydadgaming126]

Kyle Dubas thought that negotiations were still open and Brendan Shanahan thought they had an offer agreed to in principle on Sunday evening. Then Dubas blindsided them with a last minute offer from his agent on Thursday. Then Dubas emails him... uh yeah I still want the job, did you get my latest offer from my agent? And the fact Dubas sent an email instead of coming into Shanahans office to talk face to face was the straw that broke the camels back. This is entirely on Dubas overplaying his hand.

[@bbvududaddi7216]

Bang on

[@brentmacdoanld3196]

While much is done face to face, it is customary to utilize emails for tracking purposes. Not uncommon at all! It’s the recorded written word that protects all parties.

[@dougstevenson1503]

I'm betting that it was the contents of the e-mail, rather than the presence of it that ended up being the last straw.

[@crazycanuck7811]

Couldn't help but laugh at the "The Leafs are too aware of what their fans want" If so... they wouldn't have let the team get into this hole. Should have fired Shanny and kept Dubas.

[@B2Roland]

Leafs fans have such an inflated ego about everything. This team isn't some sexy job everyone wants. And this fan base is far from 'best in the league'.

[@o.d.flores1219]

both those morons need to go... Dubas is a weak-minded lack of killer instinct chooch.

[@rnstnt]

Shanahan may be many things - good or bad - but things have seemed more promising since he got here. He hired Lou and Babcock - proven and experienced people to help the teams win. When that was not working out, he pivoted and changed his approach. He gave Kyle Dubas "an opportunity" to be GM for the most storied franchise in the NHL without any experience. I thought Dubas did a good job in the role - certainly better than most of the other GMs prior to him. He cared about the team and the players. However, during his tenure, we only got out of the first round once! He could have been fired during each of the five years as GM, but Shanahan stuck by his guy. Did the relationship change - probably, but this is a business and he let Dubas go. It is time to move on. Go Leafs Go!

[@THEGDB]

20:46 Honestly, I think dubas wanted final say on hockey moves, and Shanahan was not willing to give up that power, and honestly, any GM you have faith in should have that power .

[@michaelkirkpatrick7483]

i guess that's possible. We don't really know how involved Shanahan was on deals or proposed deals. The trade deadline deals had a Shanahan vibe to them, based on how he played back in the day...

[@dougstevenson1503]

@@michaelkirkpatrick7483 If the reports are true, Shanahan was behind the push to bring in Joe Thornton and Wayne Simmonds a couple of years ago to add a "veteran presence" to the fourth line. We all know how that went.

[@Grim-zg8ps]

Thank you

[@A.Zivkovic]

Re: Dubas' 'I'll be in Toronto or nowhere' statement. I think the context of that was if 'HE' decided that he wasn't going to return to Toronto, he wouldn't pop up somewhere else. I didn't read it as 'if Toronto let's me walk, I'll just stay unemployed.'

[@lucdelorme5923]

Haven't even made it last the intro, and just off the title, this will be a good one!

[@luc0007]

nice name ^_^

[@chriss6457]

You can debate this all you want but Dubas and his team produced ONE series win during his tenure for this Storied Franchise? NOT Good Enough!!!!

[@lindacopping]

Dubas over played his hand. Also when he said he didn't know if he wanted to be Leafs GM (thats what I heard on Monday not from Shanny but Dubas at the presser) that was the nail in his coffin. Doesn't matter if it was a ploy or not, he showed weakness, Shanny saw it, MLSE saw it, and could not have it. And IF MLSE did not want to offer that contract they would not have so yes they were offering it until Dubas agent came back with higher demands.

[@keithporteous9281]

You guys need to learn about the impacts of sport betting on mental health. Seriously. There needs to be dramatic limitations on advertising these gambling sites.

[@NIGHTBREED3R]

' Not promoting gambling habits BUT if your gonna gamble, gamble with US !! 😂

[@jaskiranbedi1]

Initially I thought this, but then what about alcohol advertisement? Also very bad addiction potential and mental health implications

[@keithporteous9281]

@@jaskiranbedi1 you make my point for me. There are vast limitations on advertising alcohol and tobacco.

[@kelseymcguire4165]

I believe Bowman was a league recommendation based on how many insiders tried to launder his reputation when he was linked to the Flames GM search. Leafs are def interviewing him.

[@kavo588]

I won’t lie Adam brought his A game today, guy was on a heater this ep

[@TomasCyr]

Minute and a half in and I feel seen lol, was in the car with my partner and Buck was talking on the radio and I was like "Shhh baby, Bucks talking!"

[@GrahamStrang]

haha thumbnail got me for a second

[@edelio2743]

How do you not see Dubas got greedy and played an angle rather than be upfront about it. Beta move like the stars on this team...

[@deadlydadgaming126]

You guys talk about not picking sides but you are clearly picking Kyles side by the way you are talking about how great Dubas was and Adam suggesting that Dubas and Shanahan call each other again and work this thing out. Thats not happening. They are moving on from Dubas. Dubas messed up his chance to be here and he's done.

[@jaikohaal]

I want to say this as a Bruins fan. Dubas worked for Lou for a few years and has shown he can and very much wants to run a club himself. He has good habits and is a control freak. Him reminding me of a younger Lou is scary and he’ll have success wherever he goes.

[@TheDACS0904]

Dubas knows that the Leafs have a very short runway to make significant personnel decisions and he played this in his presser to increase his leverage when his agent provided his new financial package. When you step back and think about, he put the team in this position when he issued those contracts to include no trade clauses and it also happens to coincide with the end of his contract. That's a brilliant way to create leverage against the team you work for. He knows what he is doing.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

Definitely. I really hope they take this opportunity to fell as much as they can for draft picks, including retaining almost all the salary from the core. You could build a competitor within 3 years

[@dougstevenson1503]

They have clauses kicking in this off-season because you can't have one prior to accruing 7 full seasons of playing in the NHL. This wasn't some Dubas conspiracy to screw the team over, it was literally not allowed until this season for any of those players that have them kicking in on July 1.

[@TheEDFLegacy]

@@dougstevenson1503 It's one of the reasons why I think they should liquidate the core. With so many contracts expiring, and with the core in prime "rental" territory, there's a _lot_ of contenders that would be willing to bet the farm (teams) for their services. To get the best return, retain most of their salary, so the Leafs can stay above the cap floor. With Tavares, threaten to sit him if he doesn't move. With so many picks and prospects, I feel the Leafs would be in an _excellent_ position to make a run in just 3 years, with a huge amount of cap space to add the veterans needed to push them over the top.

[@iliaponomarev1624]

OK, I feel like the best possible scenario from entertainment point of view is: 1. Bergevin becomes Leafs GM 2. Jeff Ducharme becomes Leafs coach 3. Leafs barely make playoffs 4. A run to the Cup final, because Matt Murray (no one knows why he's even playing) suddenly decides he's not allowing goals anymore

[@KyleMacSkill]

I find it interesting how Leafs fans both admit that we are in a turning point in our organization with the possiblitiy of losing matthews and nylander for nothing next year, and talk about how amazing Dubas has been as a gm. The reason we're in this situation is because Dubas signed Matthews to a horrific contract that not only gave him the 2nd highest cap hit in the league at the time - but was just long term enough to bring him to his UFA years. I would have been happier to sign him to 4 years so the Leafs could still hold some sort of leverage in his next contract but now they are entirely at his mercy. I just dont see how this ends well chances are Matthews asks for 13+ and Willy asks for around 10... Which means the Leafs are screwed whether they keep or lose them

[@EamonnJCF]

Friedman has been on record saying there were big time rumours of Arizona sending a massive offersheet to Matthews if he went unsigned in the summer. Pretty much forced their hand to bend to him. But at the same time, 5 year deals for star players out of their ELC wasn't very uncommon at the time. Loads of superstars did the same thing. Could argue the NMC in the final year wasn't ideal though.

[@KyleMacSkill]

@Eamonn The problem isn't necessarily the 5 years, it's the combination of the term and cap hit. Teams who sign their stars to 4-6 years save money on the cap hit whereas Mathews and Marner got both.

[@jpdemontigny]

In the Amazon documentary, we see Dubas negotiating the Foligno trade. The decision does not appear to go to the board nor is Shanahan approving it. Seems to me that he has a lot of autonomy.

[@jenniferandrews6556]

Or that was omitted from the documentary on purpose to make you think he has autonomy. They're not gonna shoot a documentary and make the gm look like a pushover lol

[@steesenshiller6470]

Steve pumping Adam's tires will never get old! Wholesome boys!

[@markhodge7]

Steve, you are well spoken. It's why we return.

[@jordanstreib3898]

I agree Montreal and Toronto have most pressure in NHL. Dubas is a good GM,and will be good in Pittsburgh. He will change his mind just as Paul Maurice did then joins Florida. Burke was with Toronto and understands how things probably went and will have easy time relating or offering Penguins job. Idk how you dont trade a top 4 guy, The best i seen out there is -Doughty/Karlsson for Tavares contracts wise. -Marner youll get alot but has no trade kicking in. - Willy makes least but will get paid and not get as much back for him. - Matthews what if you got a package like Villardi/Byfield+Clarke+ maybe more. Or a Anaheim Zellweger/Drysdale+Gaucher/Mintyukov+ ? Then can use Matthews next contract 14million and sign 2 7m players FA or 3 players.

[@Neil_]

Burke was fired with the rest of Pitts office was he not?

[@punkrockbassist44]

Steve Dangle: " To me, a GM who is not able to work the next 5-6 weeks for the Maple Leafs is a non-option. That's a non-option. You can't hire that person." Nobody: Absolutely no one: Not a single soul on this Earth: Monitor in background: "Wanna bet?"

[@daniel90550]

"When you think you know the right decision, you need to act on it" - Brendan Shanahan in 2018

[@justawinddown]

Was that signing off on handing Tavares 11M? Or Matthews? Or Marner?

[@daniel90550]

@@justawinddown I was wrong, it was actually from 2019 after they fired Babcock

[@NXT_LVL]

Ahh yes the "I know what I like when I see it" line I always got from clients who actually had no idea wtf they were doing. But hey their check cleared so all is forgiven, right? haha

[@GSDGamingx]

Hows Jesse feeling about his Hurricanes vs Panthers prediction???

[@BabyBowDingBall]

He probably thinks “oh look I was wrong, which is a thing that happens because 99% of us have absolutely no idea what we’re talking about.”

[@hunterneudorf4522]

The thing with Bergevin's coaching decisions is that he had to hire french Canadian head coach, so he didn't have as large of a pool to pick from.

[@vancouverrob]

Great show. Very insightful. What a mess.

[@scottbaron121]

There is a candidate who the Leaf's SHOULD look at but hopefully won't. He's Lightning AGM and Director of Amateur Scouting, Al Murray. The Bolts moved him to AGM a few years ago, when Yzerman tried to poach him. He is the guy behind most of the Lightning draft "finds". Kucherov, Point, Cirelli, Palat, etc. Non-1st rounders who became impact players.

[@michaelkirkpatrick7483]

Lot of good candidates under 40, but Leafs seem determined to go with the recycled dinosaur club roster as their search base for a new GM.

[@spatzilly]

If I'm hearing right, a tandem of Murray and Jim Benning seems to be on the table.

[@InsignificantNick]

IF Shanahan did make the decision to fire Dubas while driving, I'd love to know what song he was listening to. Or if he was just driving in silence.

[@noahporter5818]

He seems like a big Doors fan so betting odds would place riders on the storm near the top

[@daveh9011]

Good lord, Jesse finally said "versus" instead of "verse". 🙏

[@skyhigh388]

The speculation about Doug Armstrong is absurd. People understand Armstrong is under contract with the Blues for three more years right? Why would the St. Louis Blues let him out of his contract to go work for a rival team?

[@bubbaolive883]

Looks like Mathew’s and Dub are headed to Pittsburgh.

[@vt1340]

MLSE has a history of interfering with GM decisions, there is certainly more here than what we've been told.

[@workshoptelescope]

The reason you get these names in the prospective GM discourse is their agents are making calls and keeping their names in the game. They aren’t interviewing to get the job in Toronto. They’re keeping their name in the ring to get a job anywhere.

[@jacobfleenor1714]

Steve, What you said about Quinneville is very poignant. It seems like people forget about the second half to the story where AFTER the cup was won, the team chose not to file everything properly. People do make mistakes, but once your mistake leads to the exact same thing happening again, its time to completely re evaluate your life. Something that it doesn't appear Quenniville has done

[@sheikhennotstirred]

Connect some dots. Maybe Dubas knew that Shanahan didn’t want to move any of the core 4 and that’s why he asked for autonomy. Shanahan didn’t approve of that plan, fired Dubas and assured the core 4 they would be back.

[@michaelkirkpatrick7483]

that is not verified. a rumour that someone started somewhere

[@dougstevenson1503]

@@michaelkirkpatrick7483 Chris Johnston posted about Shanahan not trading any of the core 4, so that seems like a pretty connected source.

[@michaelkirkpatrick7483]

@@dougstevenson1503 - I like CJ, but I don't take everything he says as the gospel. It is interesting though that Shanahan has not come out and disputed that report. He can't respond to everything, but that was a pretty serious allegation

[@JoshRecollet]

I just don’t believe Dubas when he said he was unsure. I think he was trying to create leverage. I mean it’s the GM of an NHL franchise, and the biggest one. He is 37. What are you going to go do? It’s the dream job it doesn’t get bigger, it’s BS He never wanted to leave. He saw that the leafs were vulnerable and he tried to play some games. MLSE didn’t like it, and sent him packing. At least that’s what I think

[@darrellspurr6030]

Halfway through this and nothing on Sheldon. Could this be about Kyle wanting to keep him and nobody else wanting him there? Personally I believe he is the person who has to go the most.

[@joeymiller9800]

It wouldn’t be “Boston Pizza Experience” silly.. it would be “BP Arena”. 😂

[@BaneOfV]

Shanahan was afraid of going down a spot on the ladder. Dubas wouldve eventually taken president

[@rustybarber3016]

It’s like they forget that Chris Johnston was on with them when Dubas spoke and Chris’s immediate response was “they can’t bring him back after that”.

[@michaelrudd1927]

Something skipped over in the presser breakdown is Shanny saying Dubas had a deadline that went according to how HE was running the team. Maybe Shanny didn't entirely agree with all of his moves and he did say there was a lot of input maybe saying his voice wasn't given enough weight vs the group overall.

[@NIGHTBREED3R]

Jesse you think 2004-2012 were DARK years try having your impression of hockey be formed at Maple Leaf Gardens from 1979-1984. Those were DARK.

[@Madbro204]

I traded Marner in NHL 23 for Adam Pelech, horvat, and 2 first and it was glorious

[@sjohn4299]

So Steve around the 1:22:30 mark talks about how a GM’s legacy is defined how the team is when they leave. Looking at Dubas’ term, are the Leafs better than when he started? A core group of players that can’t win, a star player that needs to be re-signed after his previous deal was just 5 years, giving that same core all the money in the world they wanted, and just one playoff series win in 5 years as GM.

[@MajoraOra64]

While I enjoy you guys, this episode was a lot of left field and out of touch takes. Do you guys know Dubas personally or something? For guys that DRAG other teams GMs, coaches and owners, y’all seem suddenly out of touch here

[@killerpodcasts]

The holier than thou attitude on this show is why the rest of the league hates Toronto. If the leafs have so much money. Why hasn't the scouting department nabbed 1 player outside the 1st round that's currently on the leafs roster and is an everyday player. There isn't one. Being a cubs fan, that had to endure a franchise being fucked for 108 years, I used to feel bad for leafs fans. But no longer.

[@rhetorikm2429]

Dubas cast doubt on whether or not he wanted to be there, rookie mistake.

[@Neil_]

Kipper's analysis is one of a pro, both athletically and in media who's been there done that... Steve's is one of a fan in his basement, with a fans perspective and preference. Don't get me wrong, I think what's he's built out of said basement is admirable, but he's wrong.

[@dougstevenson1503]

Counter-point: Kypreos' brain has turned to mush, and anything that he says at this point should be taken with a massive grain of salt.

[@Neil_]

@dougstevenson1503 tell us you're a Dubas disciple without telling us you're a Dubas disciple. If his brain is mush his prediction in the days post Tavares signing of how that deal would kill them negotiating with Austin, Mitch and Willy is even more incredible.... look that up, he called it exactly how it went down because he's been around long enough to have seen it all before.

[@dougstevenson1503]

@@Neil_ He also said that the Leafs should trade Nylander for Montour, which invalidates anything that he says.

[@Neil_]

@@dougstevenson1503 only because the cats might not want that deal 😆

[@moharikram1687]

@@dougstevenson1503 Invalidates in terms of what? Montour is a stud, clutch and reliable offensive d-man now. Try again.

[@stephenphillips6245]

Hire Dave Tallon ....the Panthers team were, mostly, made by him.

[@HunterDrone12]

The Blackhawks cup teams

[@KillingAhhs]

@@HunterDrone12 right. I can’t believe his name hasn’t come up.

[@michaelkirkpatrick7483]

hmmm... yeah... a name not being brought up at all... wonder why

[@professorfoxtrot]

The Shanaplan has been to fight 7 years to make the 2nd round and get destroyed by an expansion team. That was the plan.

[@VompoVompatti]

Asking for your boss to get himself fired by extending your contract (with the new details) could be considered a bad move.

[@jamielennard3388]

Dale Tallon, Fredrik Sjöström, Brandon Pridham, Eric Tulsky

[@a2zme]

The Shanaplan = 'How To Save My Own Job'

[@flodareltih9825]

Bruins: We won 3 Leafs: We won 1 Canes: We won none Vegas: We won 2

[@zzcossackzz1890]

I love these guys trashing all potential G/M's badly, but bowing to Dubas who messed this franchise up beyond repair. Dubas won't be hired in the NHL as a G/M - ever. He just announced he can't stomach playing for another team. Or is he a liar.

[@joshcearns5560]

🍿 I've been waiting for this 🎉 Gonna be dope 🙌

[@thetank5642]

Doing a good job and wanting to continue doing your job are two very different things

[@bajjanitor]

Wow, these guys seem to be unable to think critically. Is there some personal relationships I'm unaware of here? Because even if you disagree you should be able to understand the opposing point of view. The problem the leadership had with Dubas press conference obviously wasn't that his family was hurting or that he'd have to talk to them before committing. It's that he wouldn't say that he wanted it anymore. His lack of drive, and that it was so lacking that he would state it in a press conference. And as to the "Dubas used his family's pressure as a negotiation tactic" argument. That is obviously not made moot just because he said that he wouldn't work for another club. "Pay me or I'll take a break" is as much of a threat as "pay me or I'll work for someone else". But that tactic only works if you're indispensable.

[@johnharrison7449]

This right here. If the GM job is so hard on his family, how is essentially being President of Hockey Operations going to be any easier? He overplayed his hand, then tried a powerplay thinking he was indispensable, and fucked around and found out.

[@ldgt1]

Exactly. Watch Ken Holland at his end of year press conference, he’s crushed for the guys and he wants to get back to work. Dubas? Literally the complete opposite. Imagine saying you weren’t sure about a job to your boss then 3 days later saying you want a pay raise 😂 Steve is so soft with his take that Shanahan was harsh.

[@alexanderh.999]

Dubas was a mediocre GM.

[@Toole8]

Stan Bowman to the leafs 😂🤣 he's the "yes man" Shanahan needs 😂