The Shocking Truth About KTM 790 Cam Checks After 2000 Miles of Riding

[@philiprousselle2749]

I gave up on KTM. Bought a Yamaha and a Honda never looked back.

[@RedRupert64]

The Japs are certainly a lot more reliable, but in comparison, they're dull to ride.

[@chrisdadigger1018]

I don’t see why anyone and whatever even take a chance on his brand. I’ll stick with Honda.

[@houstonhowell3618]

The original big 4 is the way to go

[@douglasalexander4348]

@@houstonhowell3618 Now, Yam triple cp3 lighter and fast and more soul than a 4. 1990 to 2010 Hondas were unbelievably reliable.

[@houstonhowell3618]

@@douglasalexander4348 I have the cp2 and have been really impressed with how it performs and the ease of maintenance, just passed 10,000 miles, I really would like to try out the cp3 though it sounds amazing!

[@PRL1290]

Definitely an oiling issue, when adjusting the valves on my 1290 super duke I noticed one of the cam lobes looked a little different, not worn just off somehow. I took the cam bridge off and cleaned all of the oil jets, one of them was plugged with some hard white substance, I cleared it out and it was the one for the cam lobe I noticed earlier. I found this on the first valve adjustment at 18,000, mi at 36,000, mi. I checked it again. Adjusted the valves and the cam looked fine. I believe I lucked out and caught it early because that clogged jet could have took out the cam lobe. My guess in this case is not enough oil pressure or clogged Jets.

[@jsbedard]

Sell that crap

[@PRL1290]

@jsbedard nah, it's been a stellar bike and reliable.

[@ivorscruton5121]

Take an analytical viewpoint. The camshafts are not the problem. The problem is oil starvation, and the fact that it doesn't affect all engines would likely be something in the machining process. At some point, the automated milling process could have gone out of calibration, thus rendering a series of defective cylinder heads. Thus, replacing the failed component, the camshaft, in this case, won't address the root cause. This is something I personally have experienced with a 1980 Yamaha XT 500. The camshaft would wear on one side after 1000 km, the dealer replaced the camshaft under warranty, but the problem reoccurred. Ultimately, I replaced the entire cylinder head, which resolved the issue. This was an out of warranty second-hand motorcycle. After examination of the original head, it was discovered that the rocker shafts were not parallel to the cylinder surface, resulting in oil starvation between the rocker pad and the camshaft. So this could happen to any manufacturer, but if a warranty is involved, they best find the root cause rather than slaping on bandaid solution and calling it a goodwill gesture, hoping the warranty will expire in the meantime. Ultimately, the entire cylinder head probably needs replacing with modified oil galleries. That's my guess.

[@A15degreeperhourdrift]

Curious about your XT issue. Early ones without an oil feed to the exhaust rocker shaft caused the bore to wear oval, it was then impossible to accurately set valve clearance and it rattled. The cure is to fit an aftermarket oil line to the exhaust rocker, and to drill & tap the cylinder head and fit a grubscrew to push the rocker shaft down into place.

[@ivorscruton5121]

@A15degreeperhourdrift The XT was purchased with 1200km from the original owner, who told me the camshaft and rockers were replaced under warranty at 1000km. Shortly after buying it, I rode it from Vancouver, Canada, to Guatemala. By the time I reached Seattle Washington, the exhaust valve clatter became evident, so I adjusted it. After another 300km, the noise returned, and this repeated itself until I reached San Diego, where I replaced the camshaft and rockers on the roadside. By the time I reached Baja Mexico, the problem returned. The replaced exhaust rocker pad was worn on one side of the oil hole. Being that the noise would only return after adjustment, I decided to leave it alone for the 4000km through Mexico. When I reached Guatemala, I bought a new cylinder head and all the internal components, as the parts were extremely cheap. You could at the time build an entire motorcycle from the Yamaha parts department for less than the cost of a new bike. The dealership allowed me to use their workshop to conduct the work. The exhust rocker shaft bore was not parallel to the cylinder mating surface, which caused the rocker to not be parallel with the camshaft, so there was no oil cushion between them. This could have been a one-off machining error or a production run error, I'm unsure. The oil line going to the intake first was not the cause in this, but it was moved to the exhaust side to improve cooling. The bike went on to cover over 100,000 km without further problems.

[@devilsreject320]

The oil ways from cylinder to head don't line up properly.

[@tonychettleburgh8953]

I agree with you in principal but with the cam cover removed there is evidence of oil on the cams and in the general cam area. Perhaps a combination of both poor oil flow and poor case hardening of the cams if they are billet.

[@Deejaychachi]

I was an ASE Master Machinist working on a Engine Rebuilding Machine Shop, so I worked with lots of engines; rebuilding and modification. That job gave me the chance to see lots of engine parts, from new to old, from stock to modified engines. I can say for sure, those cams are not going to last long. That is very sad and disappointing.

[@FMC-20244]

@@Deejaychachi we appreciate your input from the view is someone in the field!!! Thanks for watching!!!

[@checker3694]

Your not an ASE Master Machinist, that's a Woke term for a Mechanic. Your are a Mechanic if you can diagnose and repair engines. If you replace parts on vehicles your a fitter. If a person cleans floors they are a cleaner, not a master floor hygiene specialist.

[@8alakai8]

i am sorry for this guy but his first mistake was getting ktm i only get japanese stuff and i am a euro boy and dont buy euro japan is the best at making bikes

[@checker3694]

@8alakai8 I will correct you Japan is best at making reliable motorcycles. Europeans make the best motorcycles cars trucks, and always will nothing will change that

[@Deejaychachi]

@@checker3694 Please don't be such a hater. I've studied mechanics at Mech Tech College in Puerto Rico, Work for 12 Years as independant mechanic, I've tought mechanics for 9 years at that same college, while at the same time I was working as a Machinist/ Engine Rebuilder @ Tito Performance Rebuilder who was the first AERA member in Puerto Rico, any doubts you can google Mech Tech College, there 5 campuses on PR and one in Orlando Florida. All info I just share is coroborable. I stop doing mechanics in 2009, (only my cars & motorcycle which I diagnose & Fix) Now days I work with computers & some Network. Please bring positive things to the world, If you don't know how...LEARN

[@papasmurf159]

Plenty of heavily discounted new and second hand KTM's on the market tells the story, customers have lost confidence in the brand.

[@douglasalexander4348]

This has been the case for years. How often do you see an old KTM on the road. How often do you see an old Honda on the road? 20 year old Blackbirds, fireblades, CBR 600’s all turn up regularly at our meets. Old Suzukis GSXR, busas, are still about. KTM we’re all hit and miss, why risk it ?

[@RedRupert64]

@@papasmurf159 They're plenty of older KTMs on the road. My 2004 950 Adventure is still racing around the Pyrénées with me at the bars (she has over 225,000 km on her). My friend has a 2005 950 Adventure that is his only bike. These two bikes put other much newer bikes to shame when the going becomes challenging. We love our KTMs. I've done over 24,000 kms on mine this season.

[@Marquuus]

@@douglasalexander4348 I see a fair chunk of older model KTM's out on the road, I think that's just observer bias. Personally I "risk it" because no other bike is even nearly as fun to ride in its category. Yet to have issues, hope that stays true.

[@douglasalexander4348]

@ Yes, maybe it’s just my area. The Mt09 does have a hooligan element like the KTM, but I know what you mean about them having their own character.

[@olavblom3024]

KTM is on verge of bankruptcy. 2-3 Billions in debt supposedly, instead of initial 2-300 million.

[@rolandwheeler4842]

The KTM issues aside THIS is why I do all my own bike. maintenance. I never buy new so warranty never comes into play. But I have seen this type of shoddy workmanship over and over again from dealers and garage shop mechanics. If at all possible, do the homework required and learn to do it yourself. Or find a guy like yourself who is trust-worthy and knows what they are doing. Really a shame!

[@FMC-20244]

@@rolandwheeler4842 I don’t blame you, sloppy jobs done like that bring bad names to the ones that do a good job. Thanks for watching!!!

[@Pizzaesser]

Thats it. A few months ago I gave my bike to a workshop for the first time in the last 25 years, for valve clearance check. I thought, the bike is quite new (9 years...:D ) and I don't do this every day, let's give it to a professional. The end of the story was oil leaking from the head gasket over the engine, over my right boot, over my rear tire and over my new Brembo rear brake pads. For only 755€ incl. taxes but at least the fixed it on warranty. Yeah I know such things can happen, I work as a service technician since 2000, but this was exactly what I was afraid of. A car mechanic who wasn't even born when I was already replacing 2stroke pistons and cylinders touching my Yamaha...found that out later.

[@maldridge7630]

dont worry, they are about to be replaced by AI powered robots anyway

[@roybatty2030]

Reminds me of the poor oil distribution on the Ford Cortina car engine in the early 70s, leading to premature OHC wear and a ticking noise. The answer in that case was an additional oil distribution pipe over the camshaft, which was a retrofit kit and a DIY job.

[@johnofypres]

Pinto engine. I used to work on them.😁

[@robvanduren761]

Oh you really are old like me to remember those days.

[@tonychettleburgh8953]

Yeah I had to do that on my MK3 1600 GT Cortina. No oil to the cam lobes and it used to wear them out real quick . The kit I got had new cam followers and a new oil pipe included.

[@pinguzoe]

I can't believe they don't change the oil pump and at the same time they could change the cam profile. You might lose 5±hp but reliability is what the customer needs. No need for Ready to Race

[@butlindsayforge5403]

Changing the cam profile won't do much if there is a lubrication or hardening issue

[@keepitsimple8880]

Changing the cams is not a solution, as according to a couple of videos, there is a flaw in the engine design that causes a shortage of oil supply to the cams. The question is, is this resolved on the 2023+ models that are produced in China? I have not seen anyone complain about those yet.

[@RedDirtOkie]

That's what I want to know too!!! I hope someone will investigate the new models for factual differences.

[@CharlesR.SteinruckIII]

In a statement from KTM NA that dropped 10/24/2024 only KTM's with Austrian VIN# have the issue. Also goes on to clear CFMoto of having no engines, no parts, or machining of parts for the Austrian VIN# bikes.

[@benplaysbass2491]

I just put 10,000kms on my CFMOTO 800MT with the redesigned head and bigger oil pump, and I'm pleased to report the cams are looking good.

[@rafaellastracom6411]

The real question is whether you would trust KTM to take the risk. I´m out.

[@richymoto]

Not all bikes of the same series seem to have the same problems - this also could be a problem with the manufacturing process.

[@lukaslombardo4736]

Just had my 15000 mile valve adjustment done on my 2023 890r. My cams were good, looked better than those . I think it’s an oiling problem too. It seems cam issues are far more common on adventure models. I wonder if it’s because people who ride dukes tend to ride in higher rpm range, which pushes more oil into the head. I live in the mountains so my bike lives in higher rpm’s then most bikes. I guess I could have just gotten lucky though.

[@JinKazama92]

cam problems are definitely more common on the dukes. the guys doing track days seem to wear them faster.

[@CharlesR.SteinruckIII]

The problem has been diagnosed. It is an oil journal that was machined and is mismatched. It does not meet centered to the other journal. This cuts off the amount of oil that is supposed to flow through the journal. This is what is causing oil starvation to the cams. This is why KTM insisted that the cams were not soft. Testing cams for wear on the bench proved that they are not soft. KTM North America put out a statement October 24, 2024, stating the affected models, clearing up of where the problem is. Clearing up any doubt that CFMoto had nothing to do with suppling engines or parts or making parts for the bikes that have issues. Clear and simple: If your KTM has an Austrian VIN# you have a problem. If you have a KTM with a Chinese VIN# or a CFMoto using the 790/800 engine you have no problem.

[@richymoto]

That‘s a sad statement … buy a bike, that is manufactured in China instead of one from Austria and your good.

[@constantinosschinas4503]

​@@richymotoI just see two factories. China makes good things too. The whole world depends on them.

[@syntaxmsi]

That's why I traded in my bike with an Austrian VIN number for a bike with a Japanese VIN number.

[@stevesmith756]

@@syntaxmsimany Japanese bikes are made outside Japan in Southeast Asia

[@CharlesR.SteinruckIII]

@@richymoto There are no Austrian VIN# after the 2022 model year for that model 790. January of 2023 is when production began for that model 790.

[@LonelyTreeSunset]

It is a lubrication issue, not a cam issue. Insufficient oil pressure. High viscosity oils may help, but I believe it's a design flaw... An inappropriately sized oil pump.

[@JinKazama92]

You can literally see the areas around the cams have lots of oil. I've said 100x it's not a lubrication issue.

[@truantray]

It is a design flaw, but it was corrected in later head designs with much wider cam lobes And followers and larger oil passages. Given that this can be detected in 2000kms, it's very clear KTM did no road testing on the original designs. The free fix from KTM was just intended to kick the ball forward. Then we wonder why they are 3 billion euro in debt and no one is buying their bikes.

[@JinKazama92]

@@truantray nah they definitely did all the R&D they could. KTM ran 48 790 engines on the dyno for 180 hours straight equivalent to 320,000 miles. Motorrad (German Channel) did a 50,000km real world test on a 790 duke and passed with no issues. And you can see the engine disasembled here: kzbin.info/www/bejne/noWan5xjlr2Je9E The most reliable 790 engines were the very first batch of bikes that came from the factory. Someone fucked the production at some point between 2019 - 2022.

[@craigguy5756]

​@@realpremier these engines are manufactured in Austria. No Chinese parts...

[@realpremier]

@@JinKazama92 maybe an issue with start/stop/start/stop oil starving over the years? or weak steel..

[@torbenjensen-cp6qr]

That KTM shop that changed cams should fire their mechanic, what a disgrace!

[@ColdWarVeteran-r2j]

Its not the mechs fault.

[@alm4132]

@@ColdWarVeteran-r2j Loose engine mount bolts and throttle body clamps definitely are the "mechanic"s fault!!!

[@checker3694]

@ColdWarVeteran-r2j who's fault is it? probably WhatsApp messages on his phone is to blame distracting him or possibly tik tok notifications. People need to know he got more important things to than reassemble somebody's KTM.

[@checker3694]

@torbenjensen-cp6qr Yes, I agree with you, but from his employer side, he probably struggles to find useless people to work for him in today's jobs climate, never mind good workers 6 to 7 out of 10 mechanics/ fitters in main dealers are useless their skills beyond oil changes and tyre changes are limited, the good mechanics are usually in independent or specialised workshops. Quality mechanics would find servicing and trye changing the equivalent of watching paint dry. Good mechanics work in changeling environments. I won't use the modern woke terms like Master Tech to describe what are basically fitters that work in main dealers, I reserve the term mechanics for the high skilled.

[@marcuslovelace5953]

Techs get pushed to do more work for less money Especially on warranty work Yes the bolts should be torqued & lock tited But when rushed people make mistakes

[@888jackflash]

A good report. I am a motorcycle tech in the US, and I appreciate your attitude to the problem

[@FMC-20244]

@@888jackflash thank you, appreciate it!! Thanks for watching!!!

[@ianlogan9415]

As an apprentice, i reground cranks and cams, so i knew this was not an easily fixable problem. I'm glad i got rid of mine

[@FMC-20244]

@@ianlogan9415 thanks for watching!!!

[@tonyw4863]

One of the other channels I watched had one of the metal tubes which the spark plugs pass through exchanged for a black plastic item. That part also forms one side of the oil flow to the cams. If I'm right the wear is caused not by faulty cams or followers but by inadequate lubrication. It would not surprise me if the replacement plastic part had a relief machined or molded into it to increase the oil flow to the cam/cam followers. You might want to ask some questions to see if more recent changes by KTM are using that black plastic part.

[@FMC-20244]

@@tonyw4863 thank you for that info, I’ll dig into that!! And yes I agree is a lubrication issue, I have a entire video talking and showing evidence of that. Thanks for watching!!!

[@simongilbert2704]

the head there seems to have plenty of oil lying on it , strange ;

[@FMC-20244]

@@simongilbert2704 not really, there is oil laying around everywhere but not enough where it’s needed

[@busterrabbit]

KTM's recent response to a UK bike magazine was that there was an issue with debris left in the oil galleries and an additional gauze filter was installed to trap the debris. They also made the cam followers 1mm wider but said that was nothing to do with the wear problem. They also said that the cam/follower wear only affected around 300 bikes, and no bike after 2022 would have any problems!

[@tonyw4863]

@@FMC-20244 Have a look at a video from ADV_Charlie called "My KTM Camshaft Story Update - Is it fixed?". That shows the plastic part I was mentioning.

[@ChocoBelge]

My ‘21 790 Adventure is sold and I had some technical adventures too…A shame but after 3 years and a half and 42000km it was time to sell it before the warranty expired. Which warranty by the way? Leaking water hoses, no warranty and comes back every time at the thermostat housing( 790 has the oval one), odo screen takes water and falls out, one in warranty but condensation too, rear shock blew after 28000 km, front disks warped after 15000 km, no warranty, rear stop sensor broke, key failure several times, problem never found. I am back to Yamaha. The mechanic of the store has inspected the cams before they took over my bike. Little traces of wear, but not sufficient for warranty. I used the bike mostly for traveling, less off road and I always used thinner oil, SRS 5W40 full synthetic.

[@FMC-20244]

@@ChocoBelge sorry that you had all these issue. The 790 could really be the ideal bike if it was plastered with issues. Thanks for watching!!

[@ChocoBelge]

@ Indeed, I loved the bike and also his vivid and fine tuned engine. Not understandable that as a major brand they ruined all of their good reputation by neglecting the problems with the engines of the 790 and also the 890 platform for five years. A friend of mine had his cams and the followers replaced in warranty, but not the head of the engine who was damaged too. 1900 euros of expenses and only 360 euros covered by warranty, without counting the mechanic’s labour. That’s why I decided to sell my KTM.

[@RedRupert64]

You should be using 10W50, but that shouldn't be a problem.

[@jeremycanning8934]

KTM, Keeps Taking Money.

[@ZaneRidesBikes]

I thank GOD every time I hear the news of KTM! Nearly bought one but then I remembered how difficult it ia to even miss one day of work.

[@TheClassicMotorcycleChannel]

Good video, thanks for sharing that

[@FMC-20244]

@@TheClassicMotorcycleChannel thanks, appreciate!!! Thanks for watching!!!

[@darrenwhite8875]

If that's a goodwill act repair from a KTM dealer, I'd hate to see what they'd leave loose with a badwill act!...

[@LonelyTreeSunset]

Surprised no one has drilled a hole in a cam cover to insert a bore scope to record the oil nozzle spray path while varying the engine rpm. At lower rpm ranges, the cams might be running dry. If you look at how the nozzles are positioned, the stray up towards the cams, i.e., they have to work against gravity. With insufficient oil pressure at the furthest cam lobes, this would explain the wear progression along the cam length, from right to left.

[@shortbusdog]

You can run it with the valve cover off and just watch it. No need to drill holes and using cameras

[@richardsimpson3792]

There's a Yuotube somewhere of a cold start-up with the valve cover removed. The dribble of oil coming out of the nozzles doesn't reach the cam lobes...that's the problem right there. The cams are case-hardened, so once the hard layer wears though (which it will if unlubricated) then the cams wear very quickly.

[@shortbusdog]

@ you don’t think every motor is that way? You don’t get oil pressure the second you hit the starter and the starter probably isn’t fast enough to really make any pressure

[@DavidStevenson-gw2eo]

It is sad to see that mechanics are not checking things when putting the parts back together, as an old school hand and still in the trade I frequently come across lots of similar problems and have had to re-doo others mistakes today, it seems that the so called qualified techs who do two years training are of a different ilk to the true time served operators, these guys will eventually learn by their own mistakes, but it seems a few are purely in it for the money and deliver mediocre work with the minimal of tooling.

[@FMC-20244]

@@DavidStevenson-gw2eo you are absolutely 💯 right. I was lucky to be trained the old school way and that’s how I run my successful shop today. But I see the problem every time I try to hire someone. Its scary to what most of the “ graduated and 5 year experience “ techs are today. Thanks for watching!!!

[@theodavies8754]

They don't get to see what they screwed up. It's not looking good for the future.

[@squirrelhasnuts7368]

I read in the maintenance manual, that the 890 has two oil pumps (unlike 790). Think this should make some differece.

[@FMC-20244]

@@squirrelhasnuts7368 wow never heard of that. I’ll have to research that. For my knowledge the 890 - 790 - 901 are identical other than displacement. I’ll look into that. Thanks for watching!!!

[@andreglomm9843]

Im glad my dealer in germany had take the 790 Adv bake that is insane. Now I have an V strom 1050DE

[@FMC-20244]

@@andreglomm9843 hope you enjoy the Suzuki, thanks for watching!!!

[@blowduke]

That’s why I work on my own bikes don’t trust any dealer ,bikes in the last 10 years the quality has got worse not better all about profits

[@timessix8434]

Sad to see KTM has done no design update, just exchanging parts…

[@FMC-20244]

@@timessix8434 it is sad indeed, everyone hope the screen would help but just like a suspected in a previous video it wouldn’t do anything. Thanks for watching!!!

[@Priidik]

What do you expect, the company is in bankrupt. This didn't happen over night.

[@williamrae9954]

They have, 1mm wider followers,no problems since..'22 onwards are fine

[@timessix8434]

@ ehh, he says in the video dealer monted new parts, that by looks of it already started to fail…

[@FMC-20244]

@@williamrae9954 this bike has the updated head, wider followers and new cam. Same problem starting again

[@antonios990]

As always greatly explained! Thank you so much for the very professional content of your channel that I hope will grow quickly to tens of thousands that deserves

[@MrTench8]

I would be using a very high ZDDP oil in one of those bikes. I have a fair bit of dyno time with various oils and engine strips in between while developing an engine, the best oil i found that left no marks on the cam or followers was Redline Race 30wt. Developed for the big American Motorcycle V Twins and car V8's both of which have very large heavy valves requiring very strong valve springs for drag racing. This oil is designed for engines with high cam lobe loads and does the job! If you use this oil and the cams still fail then the parts are not upto the job they were obviously badly designed for! The only problem with this oil is it will coat the catalytic converter with Zinc and reduce it's effectiveness.

[@alm4132]

And cause Clutch problems in motorcycle wet clutches......

[@MrTench8]

@@alm4132 I am running it in a motorcycle engine with a wet clutch, the engine is now making double the original horse power and the std clutch is coping. What engine did you run it in where it caused clutch problems?

[@hiha2108]

ZDDP is not MoS2. No clutch problems with ZDDP.

[@kjlund75]

I switched from factory to 15W50 and was shocked at difference - smoother idle and feel - should that help with valve wear?

[@alm4132]

@@MrTench8 You lost me at "the engine is now making double the original horse power".....🤣🤣🤣

[@theshadyeightyshow3355]

I noticed that on the 2020 790 Adv R there are updated part numbers for the oil pump gear and the pressure pump rotor set as well, not sure what changed with the actual part.

[@2Wheels-Adventures]

I have a 2019 790R, 3800 mi. Recently inspected the cams. Yes signs of wear. Waiting to hear back from the dealer. And yes I do all my own maintenence. Lets see what the outcome will be from the dealer?

[@FMC-20244]

@@2Wheels-Adventures my friends joe was done for free under the goodwill deal. Honestly with ktm been on the edge right now…. Please keep us posted of the outcome. Thanks for watching!!!

[@EarthSurferUSA]

For premature worn cams, it could be 2 issues that I can think of. 1) poor manufacturing/material choice, cams too soft. (can be tested with a Rockwell hardness tester) 2) something is wrong, (or poor design), with the lubrication system. Possibly getting clogged up by something.

[@brandywell44]

Moto Guzzi had a recent issue with Diamond Like Coatings DLC in their engines. A fix was provided under extended warranty of a roller Rocker conversion and new cams which works well.

[@FMC-20244]

@@brandywell44 thanks for that info!!! Thanks for watching!!!

[@OCLandspeeder]

That was on their 2008-2013 Stelvio 1200. Also required updated cylinder heads, cams, and valve train all covered by MG.

[@zeikwhite3902]

It's not the cams that are the problem it's the oil ways that supply oil. The oil ways in the head are drilled in a Y shape and in some cases are not lined up which causes oil starvation.

[@FMC-20244]

@@zeikwhite3902 yes oil volume and pressure is the main issue here. With more lubrication and a bit less aggressive cam those engines could last just like any other. Thanks for watching!!!

[@Ricardacm]

Does anyone know if the CF MOTO and KOVE units have the same issue?

[@FMC-20244]

@@Ricardacm the cfmoto 800 shows same issues. Nothing on the Kove so far I know. Thanks for watching!!!

[@richymoto]

As long as the underlying problem is not solved … no huge surprise

[@ArmyOfZin]

That's disheartening. I had both of my cams replaced at 10000 miles on my 2020.

[@nickclarkuk]

New KTMs are cheaper than the low cost Royal Enfields in the UK and I still don’t want one due to this issue . It’s really sad as I love the brand 😔

[@T3-RIDER]

Why would you love a brand? 😂

[@FMC-20244]

@@nickclarkuk i get what you say, I have been riding ktm 2 strokes for year’s absolutely love them. So it’s more mind blowing that they can deliver such a problematic product. Thanks for watching!!!

[@nickclarkuk]

@@T3-RIDER I bought a new Husqvarna FC350 motocross bike a few years and I loved it. Most fun I’ve ever had on two wheels. It’s the same KTM brand to me .

[@dylancrow7919]

Why don’t they use bucket over shim? Wouldn’t have that peak on the cam.

[@FMC-20244]

@@dylancrow7919 agreed 💯!! I keep saying the same thing. Thanks for watching!!!

[@greatfallskam]

Quality has to extend all the way to dealer. If they cannot put a bike back together, how can we trust them. Moreover, how can we expect dealer to monitor, track, and report issues back to KTM. That dealer should be flagged.

[@wb4367]

Its so sad, why do all exciting bikes have to be like that & all reliable bikes are unexciting.

[@paulbaker6508]

Ever since the demise of the 2 stroke, we lost exciting is my belief. Yz 490 Yamaha comes to mind , absolutely frightening excitement in it's day. There are definitely some exciting 4 strokes out there today that offer reliability as well,Triumph and Yamaha tripples certainly aren't boring and have years of r n d built in. Performance bikes shouldn't be unreliable in this day n age, shocking.

[@jimh2061]

Im wondering if the dealer even did the full head replacement. Such crappy work they did maybe they just stuck a couple new cams in. Did your friend recieve all the old parts they replaced?

[@mastergivenn]

The review I was looking for. Finally we know that the little filter they added doesn’t take effect. But I must say that I personally know people that had 50000 km with no issues…

[@FMC-20244]

@@mastergivenn yes the whole “updated head” is trash!!! That’s about 30k miles and honestly the max I have ever seen on ktm parallel twins. Thanks for watching!!!

[@philrc1]

Do ALL 2019 790 cams have this problem? So far my 2019 seems to run fine and the magnetic oil screens have been clean at oil changes. Are there aftermarket cams that's acceptable and more durable?

[@RedRupert64]

You need to go further than just checking the magnetic oil plug. Open up the oil filter; inspect it and drag a powerful magnet over it and look to see what you get.

[@philrc1]

@@RedRupert64 My bike has about 14000 miles on it. The dealer did the first oil change and inspection, I have done the subsequent oil changes. I haven't ran a magnet over the filter but I've never noticed any type of debris on it. However, I will check the oil filter with a magnet next oil change. Thanx for the info.

[@syntaxmsi]

My 2020 790 Adventure had 32,000km on it when I traded it in. I checked the valves and cams twice since it was new and the cams never had any wear. So the problem doesn't affect all bikes. However, a problem that DOES affect all bikes is the fact that KTM are going bankrupt. That was the last straw for me!

[@donlopez3185]

I bought the first 790R in my area in 2019. It has over 33k miles with no engine issues. Dealer did first oil change and valve check/service at 18k. I change oil every 5-8k miles. Fuel sensor failed and replaced under warranty. Clutch cable frayed (still working with one strand holding), I paid for the repair but got to ride an 890R for a couple days while they had my bike. Broke a stock hand guard yesterday, guess it’s time for an aluminum upgrade.

[@RedRupert64]

My 2022 890AR has over 25k miles on it, and like you above, I change the oil twice as often as recommend. The only problem has been condensation in the headlamp, which was replaced under warranty without fuss. My friends with dull Jap bikes are happy to joke about KTM's reliability, but I ride far, far more than they do.

[@stuarthall2523]

Did you know the failure rate is 0.5%. Plenty other manufacturers have similar. BMW with shaft drives are more!

[@jonm7272]

That's because the crappy KTM PCP deal only allows owners 3000 miles/year. The majority of bikes just haven't done enough miles yet.

[@dartmoordave]

Unfortunately a side effect of mass production. When theres a mistake its magnified 100 fold by the speed of modern assembly. Any mass produced vehicle can have an issue, just look at the number of recalls for some of the most trivial things that have gone awry. If you are making 10k items a day or even an hour, the chaos soon mounts up.

[@FMC-20244]

@@dartmoordave I can’t argue with that, BUT the mayor issue is not that it’s happening but more how ktm has been denying it and just been shady. Every manufacturer has its flaws here and there but admitting it and doing a quick re call go a long way. Thanks for watching!!!

[@watb8689]

the cfmoto 800mt and ktm 790 has differences in the engine, the cfmoto 800mt doesn't have this cam issue or oil starving issue. bought one cfmoto 800mt in 2023 and riding it reaching 40 thousand miles. the bike is just build like a tank, no issues so far

[@FMC-20244]

@@watb8689 thanks for that info, and that’s interesting to hear that at 40k it’s still going strong. Just a few days ago I read in social media a few people saying that they mt800 had extreme cam wear at 15k. Thanks for watching!!!

[@earluke2592]

clogged cam shaft oil jets should lead to friction and overheating, resulting in blue colored, damaged friction surfaces (well known issues on 2009 KTM SXF engines). I am not sure that this is a lack of oil problem.

[@JeffAndersen-lc7zx]

Well KTM has all these unsold bikes. Perhaps they could offer a trade of these unsold bikes that do not have a bad track record for the troubled bikes throughout the world. People may consider a swap to a 1200 adventure bike as compensation. At least it would be a show of goodwill by KTM.

[@trailingarm63]

Great film, thanks for posting. It's a very unfortunate situation and a sad end for KTM. Other manufacturers have been through this in the past, for example Moto Guzzi with its cam followers, and Honda (back in the 70s) with its cam-chain tensioners. But I don't think either of these companies was as highly geared (financially) as KTM and were able to survive the storm.

[@alm4132]

Biggest reason is Honda and MotoGuzzi both took care of the problems and didn't choose the "lie and deny" approach KTM has taken, IMHO that is why they survived the issues. KTM is broke so they won't be helping their customers.

[@liljegren100]

My 2006 vfr800 suffered camchain failure....new motor.

[@camrenelia6878]

what dealership was it that did the work? As customers we have to look out for each other and look out for people who business like that

[@FMC-20244]

@@camrenelia6878 you shoot me a email and I send you that information, I’m not into bashing anyone so i won’t mention them publicly. Thanks for watching!!!

[@guyh282]

I had a 390 adv that was a peach untill I traded it in after 6000km...that said, videos like this and KTM's current financial situation make it very unlikely for me to ever consider their bikes in the future...

[@FMC-20244]

@@guyh282 for my knowledge the 390 is a pretty solid platform. I want to defend ktm by saying that really the parallel twin engine is a flop, I still ride ktm dirtbikes that are fantastic and very reliable. Ktm really flopped with the way they tried to deny the cam issues, let’s see if they can get the ship around. Thanks for watching!!

[@EarthSurferUSA]

@@FMC-20244 A old time MX racer I know had a crank issue (4-stroke), with a new KTM dirt bike, and he got screwed a bit for the warranty. I predict that KTM will not survive the bankruptcy restructure. Market is too small today. I am sure Japan is smiling. Low cost commie junk is actually hurting the quality of even Japanese bikes. Working on my YZ250 2-stroke, I have run into at least 2 quality issues (minor issues). I had to grind off some of the frame to get the head off, (maybe studs a bit too high), and a shock bolt torqued to spec failed after removing it about 4 times. So instead of torquing the special bolt to 40 ft/lbs, I do 35.

[@FMC-20244]

@@EarthSurferUSA i owned to ktm xcw with 0 issues, had a husky tpi with 0 issues. All 2t. And that head removing issue, I have the same on my 06 rm 250. At the end of the day no bike is perfect, and if someone get screwed by the dealer… shame on the dealer

[@g18210]

40.000 no cam issues . 790, year 2020 is very reliable . Made in Austria

[@FMC-20244]

@@g18210 you are one of the very few!! Is that 40k miles or kilometers? Thanks for watching!!!

[@g18210]

@@FMC-20244 hello , 40.000km and I do 6-7 hard OFF ROAD trail rides each year . I change oil and filter every 8 or 9.000 km . Valve clearance and cams checked in 30.000km . The only issue was the thermostat cap leaking fluid . It replaced on 30.000km

[@bulldogwoof6954]

Whats wrong with my 2018 Yamaha MT-09: absolutely nothing.

[@FMC-20244]

@@bulldogwoof6954 Same here with my t7. Thanks for watching!!!

[@clayfan408]

Did the owner or you actually see the cams get replaced by the Dealer? Perhaps they took the heads of and put them back on.

[@FMC-20244]

@@clayfan408 ok so neither did see the actual replacement, but I marked the old head with a small dot with a dremel and the new head doesn’t have it. It’s definitely a new head and definitely new cams, In the first video you can see how wore out the cam was. There was no way of “ fixing “that. So 💯 they where replaced. Thanks for watching!!!

[@docwyte]

Seems clear that the parts are the same, which isn’t surprising. KTM isn’t going to come up with all new castings for the head and cams. I was very close to buying an extremely well set up 890 Rally, but this issue scared me away. Went with another LC4, a ‘21 701 Enduro, which has been rock solid, like all my previous LC4’s. I do all my own work myself, so if something gets screwed up it’s the guy looking back at me in the mirror who’s at fault….

[@C_R_O_M________]

Since these cams are already on their way out and probably will be replaced by KTM in the future, propose the following to your customer: tell him to rev the bike more, perhaps adding more teeth to the back sprocket to increase rpms at given speeds, and overall, crack the throttle more and ride harder. I believe that the cams problems are exacerbated by the fact that these riders are trying to take it easy which results to lower oil pressure up in the heads and thus the wear issues you are seeing. There are reports that hard ridden bikes don't show as much wear as the easy-ridden bikes. There is definitely a design issue present with the oil passages but why not testing that theory with a set of cams that are destined for the bin in a short time.

[@FMC-20244]

@@C_R_O_M________ thanks for the input, in a previous video I explained exactly that, since then he says he tries to ride it with more rpm, but can’t confirm if he really does. Thanks for watching!!!

[@mohba01]

Cant believe no aftermarket company has come forward to make replacement cams which are hardy/heat treated to last longer than what comes as Oem.

[@FMC-20244]

@@mohba01 it seems like there is more to it than just cams. Like low oil pressure, of set drilling of oil channels etc. thanks for watching!!!

[@mohba01]

@FMC-20244 if the oil galleries are not able to pump sufficient oil to the cams , ktm should have proactively updated the centrifugal oil pump or reduced crank case volume for maintaining higher pressure. I think this should have been a recall and not a goodwill gesture as ktm calls it. Tbf, at this point I have no sympathy left for the brand which is kind of sad. Great content, subscribed

[@FMC-20244]

@ i absolutely agree, they messed up and say they are doing us a “ favor “ by replacing they screw up!! Thanks for subscribing and tanks for watching!!!

[@leanit5756]

The chance of a dealership “technician” executing a major repair factory standards is almost zero. Best thing to do when a major repair is needed is just trade the thing in as is. Then any half-ass repair is the dealership’s problem.

[@FMC-20244]

@@leanit5756 I’d say it really comes down to that one technician. I perform bigger engine repairs in my shop all the time and don’t leave stuff loose. After I install a part I literally go over it again and touch everything a second time to make sure I didn’t skip anything. Thanks for watching!!!

[@macdaddy258]

I thought they found unacceptable top end oil supply as the cause??

[@Leonard-kd7uj]

Hi from UK great vid and main dealers wonder why we dont trust them times i picked a bike up and plastics have been damaged bike has bolts missing even or on the other end of that thngs vastly over tight not just one manufacturer harley honda suzuki victory and yamaha thats over 20 years thats ALL of them main dealers ride safe

[@FMC-20244]

@@Leonard-kd7uj thanks you mate!! And thanks for watching!!!

[@EarthSurferUSA]

The way some employees put together new bikes can be about the same poor quality as your sentence structuring. Damn, I almost flunked English class about 45 years ago in HS,----and I am correcting people today?

[@Leonard-kd7uj]

​@EarthSurferUSA just as reference what's your ride

[@too-stoked-about-2-strokes]

Has anyone tried running ZDDP or some sort of high zinc/phosphorus engine oil in these cheese cam bikes to see if it makes a difference?

[@victorgonza4528]

Oil starvation at the jet that lubricates the cam lobe .

[@endurojugHandlebarTank]

Thanks for the video. I am so done with KTM. 😂I moved on and bought a Beta 300 rr

[@2ironchop]

It is a sad fact that there are very few competent (dedicated to proper work) technicians out there. I believe there are many different reasons for this. In my experience it appears that many Service Departments are simply understaffed and then mechanics are pushed too hard to handle the volume of work. I have lost any confidence in Service Departments after years of seeing the same kind of problems "barebonesmc" illustrates above. In ALL service departments both automotive and motorcycle dealers.

[@FMC-20244]

@@2ironchop as a shop owner is see both sides of the issue with technicians. If they get paid by the job, the rush and then stuff like that happens because they try to get done as much as possible as quickly as possible, if they get paid by the hour they take they sweet ass time and the business looses money when jobs take way longer than what they should. Sadly that’s why 90% of the repairs I do my self so I know it’s done right. Thanks for watching!!!

[@RedDirtOkie]

Well I was hoping for a better outcome. If KTM wants my money for a new 790 I'm going need verifiable proof that this cam problem has been rectified. Geometrically, this bike has no peer. The low center of gravity is the secret sauce that makes it the "dream bike" it is. I can't believe that another manufacturer hasn't copied the tank design. Image, a reliable Honda or Yamaha twin fitted up in the 790 frame. I'd buy it.

[@Eds_PanAm]

Why do we not hear anything from Husqvarna owners about their 901s involving this? Truly curious question

[@FMC-20244]

@@Eds_PanAm we do, I personally know 2 affected bikes. The thing is the norden haven’t been out as long or sold as many as the 790/890. Thanks for watching!!!

[@mahdavimail]

Any sign of issue on 390 engines? Thanks

[@them0leisback]

I own a KTM 620 LC4. It has done 72.000 km / 45.000 mi since 1996. The camshaft looks like it has been machined yesterday, even though it only gets lubricated by that little oil the timing chain takes with it... I don't know why they stopped doing it like they used to, but KTM damaged their reputation badly, maybe by trying to save a few cents. I would not even consider buying a bike from this brand that is younger than 2015.

[@FMC-20244]

@@them0leisback 💯 agreed. Thanks for the info!!! Thanks for watching!!!

[@Sunspot-19]

Look into the big question... WHY??? Why is this happening? Get to the bottom of root cause of failure. With a widespread cam failure, common to the 790, is it lubrication, contamination, incorrect valve adjustment or a cam profile issue?

[@FMC-20244]

@@Sunspot-19 on a previous video I talked and showed about the insufficient amount of oil supply… the why? Pushing beyond the limits of power to weight ratio. With a Less aggressive cam profile, shim under bucket and decent oil pressure those engines would last for ever. Thanks for watching!!!

[@Sunspot-19]

@@FMC-20244 Go figure! To have a reasonable lift/duration, the cam can have a milder approach angle. Can we do something to augment lubrication? E.G. more oil pump volume or ream out an oil gallery to permit better flow... Thanks for your reply.

[@FMC-20244]

@ honestly oil volume is the main reason those cams are failing in my opinion, In previous video I explain what the OEM manual says the bike should have for oil pressure and what they actually have!! I was suggesting changing the gearing of the oil pump to increase oil volume and there for more pressure at the jets.

[@kalidismail2663]

what year of 790 affected by this issue?

[@FMC-20244]

@@kalidismail2663 all of them!!! Already 2024 models with issues. Thanks for watching!!!

[@EarthSurferUSA]

Worn camshafts. How do we know it is not a lubrication volume problem?

[@FMC-20244]

@@EarthSurferUSA in a earlier video I talked and showed that lubrication is the main issue here.

[@ktu668]

Hi great vid thanks for the info I have a 2022 790 Duke is there same probs please

[@FMC-20244]

@@ktu668 hi, yes the dukes also have that issue but it happens slower do to the fact that they usually get ridden at more rpm, so more oil pressure. Thanks for watching!!!

[@ktu668]

@FMC-20244 Thanks for help brilliant good luck.

[@FMC-20244]

@ thank you!!!

[@AT2021Rocker]

I don’t care how much the narrative is these bikes are so awesome, they are not worth any of the hype! Makes no sense to take an unreliable bike out to a remote area!

[@FMC-20244]

@@AT2021Rocker i agree that they are awesome, absolutely no discussion here, but they should really last a bit longer than they do. And if you buy a ADVENTURE bike and don’t take it to remote locations…. Why even buying one? 🤷🏻‍♂️. Thanks for watching!!!

[@andrewreebel6418]

There's not going to be a KTM in the next year anyway. BarebonesMC rocks!

[@RichardS-qh8mi]

However, I don’t believe the current bikes from 2022 onwards fall into this category something you should point out.

[@ronanrogers4127]

790 cams are a wear item just like my 690 rocker arms 😂…if indeed these cams wear out in 10k miles that’s unforgivable. I actually fitted an aftermarket non-KTM rally cam in my 690 that had proper hardening done by engineers who know what they’re doing. It cost around half the price of a new KTM cam and works great…but we shouldn’t have to do that of course

[@CsakEn-pl7uv]

Will CF moto have the same issue? I was hoping not but they may be made in the same place or similar engines

[@FMC-20244]

@@CsakEn-pl7uv I have no concrete evidence but some how my gut tells me that the parallel twin line has been build by cf Moto all along. I’m trying to investigate this at the moment. Thanks for watching!!!

[@CharlesLee-jb5vr]

@@FMC-20244 How about some facts and less BS. If it was CF Moto's fault, you don't think KTM would be suing CF Moto's behind off and getting compensation?

[@FMC-20244]

@@CharlesLee-jb5vr no bs here. I said I have a feeling and no concrete evidence yet but I’m working on it. Cf Moto owns a large percentage of ktm. Thanks for watching!!!

[@Ozsmallbore]

@@FMC-20244 Now common knowledge that the CF Chinese made engine is not affected, only the Austrian KTM made one. Several posts here also confirm this.

[@FMC-20244]

@ sorry but you are wrong there, there are social media pages that confirm that there areCF Moto bikes already affected with the cam issue

[@gerardabbatte331]

A loose intake boot will allow unfiltered air and dirt into the engine. That is what probably already caused the wear marks.

[@herbieschwartz9246]

I rode and raced KTM for many, many years. Then they ceased being a company whose motto was quality first, and after two bikes that required ridiculous maintenance schedules and still presented dependability problems, then I went to Japanese bikes.

[@Mid-Knife-Crisis69]

The dealer wasn't doing it as a good will act. KTM did it as a good will act 👍🏻 Look where that got them. Bankrupt......

[@FMC-20244]

@@Mid-Knife-Crisis69 you are right, thanks for watching!!!

[@PhuManchew]

The million dollar question is whether or not this is occurring in the new models out of China?

[@show-me-the-details]

Correct, they are technicians, not mechanics

[@mosa4688]

I think it is an oiling problem. And it is made worse by the type of oil being used. I come to this conclusion because my 2019 with 27000k's had the burnish marks but no wear. Dealer cleaned the cams, inspected, took photos and said they were OK. Replaced all the followers whilst they were in there. All covered by KTM. Prior to this the bike had no symptoms/problems at all. Two of my friends, both 2019 models, with much LESS klms than mine have had to have their cams replaced because they were grooved like your friends bike. One bike so badly that it would not start. The ONLY difference between us is the oil they use - both were using Motul. I think this is an inferior oil. I am using an Australian brand Penrite - 100% PAO & Ester, which states it is "shear free, no loss". The Motul and many other 100% synth oils only state shear resistant. Many old mechanics I know recommend the Penrite brand. That is my thoughts anyway.

[@camrenelia6878]

very useful info thank you

[@camrenelia6878]

are you using 10w-50 or 10w-40?

[@jamescummings4130]

I've been using motul 7100 10w-50 for years on my 890 ,now over 15000 miles with zero wear

[@tonyw4863]

One of the theories floating around is that the cross drilled oil channels in the head aren't 100% aligned leading to low oil flow to the cams. The photo of damaged parts showed both badly worn followers and cams and definitely looked like oil starvation. If the cross-drill claim is true then individual bikes might be ok, might fail early or might fail late. I wish KTM was more transparent.

[@FMC-20244]

@@mosa4688 I’m totally 💯 agree that’s a lubrication issue!!! Thanks for that info and thanks for watching!!!

[@richardbarton2709]

Put some ZX1 in that will help a lot.

[@VTECH650]

are these motors made by cf moto

[@Kjutte1]

Why are anyone putting up with this. Mind boggling

[@FMC-20244]

@@Kjutte1 i agree!!! Thanks for watching!!!

[@DrGonzo-vq2zi]

Fewer people are going into the mechanic field which means that dealers end up hiring...less than desirable mechanics out of desperation.

[@grooviefan]

Is the problem the heat treat or the lobe profile ??

[@ItsJustJussi]

The speculation I've seen is the oil squirter channels for the cam's might not be well cast or machined, leading to lack of lubrication on the cams.

[@jeremyr62]

The motor industry. Never fails to dissapoint.

[@intensegamer7559]

What a load of bs. The problem wasn’t the camshafts but flawed molds for the engine block causing the lubrication lines inside up to the camshafts to be misaligned and therefore vastly ineffective. They fixed this in newer models. So if you swap out the camshafts in an older 2019 version of the engine you fix exactly nothing.

[@janbackes6160]

Holy SHIT!!! 😱 I hope that will not happen to my KTM890ADV from 2021??? Is someone here with such problems with this Model???

[@FMC-20244]

@@janbackes6160 the 790/890/901 are all affected by this problem. Thanks for watching!!!

[@brakenoodle105]

Chocolate cams or oil supply issues, it doesn't matter, it's just killing KTMs reputation.

[@jarek916]

That is one of the reason they going down. Far from premium motorcycles !!

[@FMC-20244]

@@jarek916 thanks for watching!!!

[@qx4n9e1xp]

It's going to be left to the aftermarket to come up with a solution. Hopefully someone reverse engineers these bikes, sees what's TRULY causing the camshaft wear, and then fabricate a solution that properly addresses it, then piece together a kit that can be sold to the public. That solution will cost the developing shop some money, and it's totally going to cost the 790 customer money, but it's totally fine with me, because at the end of the day, these bikes are fantastic and perform beautifully. It would be a shame for them to all get abandoned everywhere and left to sit & rot away, instead of being fixed properly and getting new life breathed into them, so they can properly be enjoyed. I just hate seeing things go to waste and not be enjoyed.

[@FMC-20244]

@@qx4n9e1xp question 1, will some aftermarket company really come up with a fix for a bike that many are giving up on? Question 2 how expensive is that solution to be and are people be willing to pay for that or say screw I’ll get another brand bike and just be done with it? We will see what the future holds. Thanks for watching!!!

[@hectorshouse7348]

Looks like the case hardening of the cam, or lubrication is poor. What a shame

[@jaywinters2483]

This is what happens with metals with low Rockwell hardness. It's common in steel from China.

[@richardsimpson3792]

Whereabouts in the world are you? is this in the UK?

[@paultanton4307]

He sounds German/Austrian to me.

[@bikenavbm1229]

one page does not make a book, but this does'nt look good, the Dealer issue, do they know they are going to get paid for warranty work going forward, the company is failing to pay their employees on time, ongoing standard warranty is looking sketchy and from a dealer perspective taking a debt with KTM may be unwise let alone adding on stuff "in good faith", even if KTM truely aim to cover all this work going forward realities may get in the way? workshop missing one thing yeh it can happen, we've all done it, but that is a joke. When you look at whats happening in the moto market the rise of China and the clear competitiveness of Western manufacturing (automotive) in particular there is a big shake up coming KTM name will likely survive in some form, but nothing like it is now, question in this context, how will in affect current owners. barebone does some god stuff your right. thanks for keeping us in the loop, there is surprising little factual content in the media.

[@sean172]

Do the 890s have the same problems?

[@simmottos]

yes.