An Early Morning Ramble - CF Moto 450 MT or Himalayan 450?

[@jonathanhill8461]

I'm in Australia, Ive ridden both. first the MT, told the sales guy. 'this is what I want'. Next the Himalayan. said to that guy 'I'm definitely getting one of these' . Loved the excitement of the motor, plus the solid build. I come from bigger machines. Both great bikes but the Himi will get my money.

[@davidz8]

I have had my 450MT since early July, 80% of the snatchy throttle was cured by removing the slack in the cables, I run a 15 tooth front sprocket and just love the bike, it does not feel like 195kg fully fuelled more like 175kg, on road it is superb and even motorways are tolerable as the adjustable screen takes the wind blast away, for me it is the perfect bike, but for others it might not be, I think the ability to ride so many different bikes with Nathan and make an informed decision is priceless.

[@utuberagain18]

Correction…per the RE owner’s manual, the valve inspection intervals on the Himalayan 450 are at 6,000 miles only until 12,000 miles and then it becomes every 12,000 miles thereafter. So valve checks at 6,000 miles, 12,000 miles, 24,000 miles, 36,000 miles, etc.

[@furaigames6837]

The discourse between the merits of the Himalayan 450 and the 450MT is among the most respectful on the internet. It’s beautiful.

[@BMiobW]

0:21 The split character you mention is EXACTLY why I bought the Himi. If I see a part of the trail that looks challenging, I can slow down, stand on the pegs, asses the situation and be fully in control when I slowely make my way through the difficult part. Than when I pass that part, I can give it the beans. On the MT, the harsh suspension and especially the jerky throttle makes it for me, inexperienced, not very talented, impossible to do that. It will be a jerky mess and I will drop te bike. Both bikes are awesome, but that was the main deciding factor for me to go for the Himi. Great video. Thanks.

[@ivoaferreira]

It is one of those chacteristics we learn to love as we put miles on the bike...I understand the criticism of the power curve from someone who just test the bike, but as you adapt to it really grows on you

[@mynxl]

Having owned a 411 Scram, it took a while to adapt to the 450 himalayan for the reasons you described. Now I appreciate its hoonish nature on the tar and compliance off road. Enjoy your videos. Cheers

[@volt8684]

Most listenable person on you tube.

[@RickWaterman2112]

Absolutely without a doubt

[@zebstime9668]

LOL, if a "knob" is good to listen to. The dude admitted he hated the bike even before he got one, which makes him nothing more than an angry hypocrite because he firmly stated he would never get one. Then here we see, he did get one. In every video about the 450 he complains about REs marketing. Get over it dude, RE spent a boat load of money in their research and development and released their first water cooled engine in over 100 years of business. CFMoto like everything else in China, its a copy. It's a literal copy developed by reverse engineering other brands and it shows in every aspect. The Himi 450 is fresh and exciting and answered exactly what interested 411 buyers felt fell short in that bike. Here in the US, highway travel is impossible not to use. 450 simply allows for safer highway travel. CFMoto shouldn't be compared to the Himi because it is entirely geared more heavily towards ripping through off-road. Hence it's aesthetics and design considerations. It's not a mile cruncher like the Himi. Each deserve their own props but the CFMoto is a clone, nothing less than that.

[@andyc750]

​@@zebstime9668 the CFMoto is not a reverse engineering job, it is all their own, nobody else does anything like it as yet, and I would love to know who's design you thinK they copied.

[@The3osforos]

Most relatable too

[@nathanthepostman]

​​​@@zebstime9668a clone of what? And really, you have such a downer but you're still here? Use your time better and watch something else.

[@alexstanley5311]

Happy with my Himmy 450. It’s thrilling to ride on the Cornish roads and it soaks up the rough tarmac brilliantly, best setup bike I’ve had so far. I had an ADV 390 before this. That was a fun bike too, I just prefer the classic looks and metal build of the RE bike. I’m sure others just as much prefer the sporty plastics of the other ones. Merry Christmas

[@LCARSADV]

How do you like the Himi compared to the 390? I have 390 and considering the Himi or the CF

[@alexstanley5311]

@LCARSADV I prefer it. Feels better put together, and totally planted on the road. I think because there’s less plastic panelling and maybe a little more weight? I was worried it wouldn’t be as fun as the 390 but the Himmy surprised me with the pull it has through the rev range. Definitely test one, I brought it after a test ride.

[@adamtwatson1977]

@@alexstanley5311 how would I far on it? - I am 5/7" 77kg but 30" legs - I like the idea of the 411 but that said I would be game for pushing harder and having a smoother motorway rides.

[@markjohnston3905]

Busy Christmas Eve, knackered, finally get to sit down with a beer and some KZbin, and what's this?! Nathan for half-an-hour! Two great bikes! Happy days! Merry Christmas, everyone.

[@bencluroe4183]

Stock 411 is still really hard to beat for a friendly go anywhere machine for pennies 👍🏻

[@pitchwife7573]

i've been salivating over a himalayan 450 ever since i got my licence. learned on my first bike, a drz400s i bought second hand before ever sitting on a bike. it's from 2005 and hasn't let me down yet! however it gets blown around on the road and doesn't like to go much faster than 90-100kmph. it also doesn't have much in the way of fuel economy, and quite a small tank. for me, the himalayan 450 looks like a bike i could buy and keep forever, something that'll take me (and even a pillion) wherever i want to go... this video, if anything, has only confirmed my suspicions. the cfmoto doesn't have nearly as good fuel range, and i was once told that the more cylinders a bike has the more it has to go wrong, and i'm really keen on reliability. in fact, the main reason i'd like to replace my drz is that i'm the 6th owner, and i have no idea how the previous owners treated it. a new bike of my own would by babied from day one in terms of maintenance. fantastic video as always! (i also adore how it looks!)

[@peternicholas602]

I bought a 450 Himi in September (4m months ago ....) and I'm loving it (coming from a Triumph Scrambler 1200 XE and African Twin before that.. ) - I test road a Triumph Scrambler 400X and thought it was a bit bland -Himi gave me a much better impression on my test ride ,so I bought one - also helps to have a good RE dealer quite local to me for servicing / parts etc...CF Moto 450 wasn't about when I was looking in the summer -may of been a good option but I'm more than happy with the Himi 450

[@K300-e8t]

@@peternicholas602 interested on your Africa Twin and Scrambler 1200 experience, those are on my list to have alongside the Himalayan. Would you have another of either? Which did you enjoy most? It’s funny as the 400X didn’t do it for me either, yet the Himalayan just has something special. Think I also had in my mind getting the 400X would always feel like I was getting a budget version of the Scrambler 1200… the Himalayan is its own thing.

[@peternicholas602]

@@K300-e8t Hi , yes I agree with your views on the 400X, I loved the look of the 1200 XE but in reality its too tall , and therefore difficult to be confident when at low speeds /parking it etc - the XC (which is lower..) would probably of worked better but does not look as good -and also the side exhaust is a bit irritating , especially on hot days , so doubt if I would have another - as for the Africa twin, thought that was great apart from the dash and the controls -so many buttons ! but really liked it as used it for European tour and it was great for that -but really like the Himi for its simplicity and its much more manageable than both the others, allowing me to explore lanes/tracks that I would not attempt on the other 2 bikes- I'm 5 ft 10 and approaching 60 years old with a dodgy hip , so that makes a lot of difference to me personally...hope you find the right one for you...

[@gizmo6164]

Well, particularly considering the time of day you edited and voice-overed this video, you’ve achieved a great, well explained and evidenced comparison of the two machines. Well done and I hope you have a good festive season.

[@nathanthepostman]

Thanks gizmo. Have a good one yourself

[@soeft]

The true is that both are similar. I've ordered Himi because looks more solid than CF. I like also 80' look which is important to me specifically.

[@nathanthepostman]

I'd say they're actually very different machines. They do the same thing. But do it very differently

[@papasmurf159]

Thank you Nathan for sharing your broad experience, you are unique in my opinion having tried and tested these bikes extensively.

[@richardwalker4518]

Great insight as always, As a 411 owner I'm too scared to sell it. Weigh up the costs of changing and you have a lot of cash potentially in your budget for actually using the bike. That said, Mr. Joseph Ryan did the big Himalayan ride on the 450 and really appreciated the upgrade. He also showcased the potential of the 450 and it definitely appears to work as an all roads travel bike. He's in Vietnam right now on a 411 Scram. CF Moto tweaks the nipple, but only some geopolitical disaster away from having negligible dealer support to no dealer support and markets are already flush with RE 411 spares.

[@ShadowVonChadwick]

I to have the Himmy, originally looking for a F800gs as a travel bike. Good ones got snapped up quick. Then as an Itchy Boots fan I knew the Himmy was coming & a fair bit about it. But once released here for such a great price I throw my deposit down on the 26th Dec, actually my birthday, took about 4.5 months to take delivery. By then it was a wet winter & was having a few health issues. So cutting to the chase, only done one 3-week trip so far, 2400Km fully loaded, camp gear, food, water, cook stuff, tent, chair & even a laptop. Once run in it came into its own, except for helmet buffet & factory tires (in some wet sloppy bits). Fuelling @ 33kpl (94mpg imp) was great. Freeway @ 120kph easy, but I prefer 95 on minor roads, easier to enjoy the sights. Rock solid on the road, trucks, wind gusts no problem. Brakes good now I got used to them. A big factor for me as historically a dirt/bush rider was suspension. I kept my KLX400r for day bush rides and running to the shops, so yes the limited pull under 3k is something to allow for, but it's all about clutch & the right gear. Just fitting good tires now, so the next trip will include as much dirt/gravel road as possible. Australia being a big country, next trip should be around 10k (km) or more. Have fitted an add-on to the top of the touring screen, hoping to clean up the helmet buffet a bit. Good assessment & agree with you almost totally, still will do a test ride on the MT just to know I made the right choice. But for the bush, I do think the RE Himmy is the better travel bike. Reliability, time will tell. Cheers from Downunder, love your work 👍

[@chrisnewton6393]

Another 30mins of common sense and real world views, Merry Christmas

[@airevalleyclassics]

Thanks for your relevant, engaging and enjoyable content. Keep up the good work.

[@nathanthepostman]

Many thanks!

[@johningle8850]

Thanks for this. I think you hit nail on the head with your comments we are different in terms of riding experience, style, use etc and therefore the bike best suited. I had the RE since May and it never disappoints. 90% road, 10% off road and it makes me feel like I could go anywhere on it at any time in any conditions. It is the smallest capacity bike I own but I use it the most and never feel compromised. 40 bhp can still get you in to all sorts of trouble but important to have the edge on most traffic on road. I have done 300 mile day runs and never felt tired or discomfort. Thoroughly recommend a test ride at the very least. CF Moto never an option for me with no local dealer. Side stand matter the only niggle as highlighted but soon forgotten with regular use.

[@jk2radfanjk782]

My last Bike was a Himi 411. After 10000km i took a testride on the Himi 450, bought it on the spot. The 411 was a nice bike, but in comparison to the 450…puh. Ok…i am living in Germany. No chance of any type of greenlaning, only on streets. Sometimes in hilly regions i was a traffic obstacle going uphill. And downhill…the brakes were simply too weak to have fun. Suspension, brakes, seating position, the seat itself, lights, enging power…everything is far better for my style of riding. The 450 ticks all my boxes. One of the best bikes i ever owned. Never rode a CF Moto. Just my personal thoughts, riding all kinds of bikes all year long since 45 years. Greetings from Germany

[@matusknives]

Awesome video, thank you Nathan. And Merry Christmas!

[@gaplife3611]

Thanks for all your amazing insights on the bikes you own Keep up the great work you offer in all your videos. & have a very merry Christmas 🍷🍺🏍️

[@slakk5093]

Might be an affordable electronic cruise control option coming very soon to the Himalayan 450 - might be a deal maker for a few, i know im holding out to see if it is coming, will know by the end of January

[@joshdoddadbod]

Appreciate the video Nathan. I had a sit on the Himalayan and barring a test ride I'm tempted to sell the T7 for it.

[@alanwrigley8156]

I went from a T7 to a Himalayan, obviously it’s not as quick but after a test ride it seemed just as good at everything else, plus comfier

[@joshdoddadbod]

@@alanwrigley8156 glad to hear it. Power isn't everything.

[@vaerenbergh]

One of the designers of the himi also worked on the T7 design, it has the same antisquat design thanks to him and ge also designed the exhaust and learned from the horrors of the t7 exhaust

[@drd3816]

@@vaerenbergh very interesting info cheers

[@KevinBrown-m5z]

Outstanding observations!I my CFMoto is on order and my local dealer is selling me hard on the Himalayan. I’ll wait! Merry Christmas!

[@NickyLong89]

It’s a beautiful bike. I think if I hadn’t have bought my 800MT, id have definitely bought the 450MT. There is a reason it sold out almost immediately.

[@augustbrante8117]

I bought the CFMoto 450 MT about 5 months ago. I sold it right before I had 500km on it. Initally I think the dealership may have set up wrong it was extremly twitchy on tarmac if I drove over small crack in road it would reverbared to hand on throtle and it would be jerky for a bit. Felt dangerous. So I softened the suspension as much as I could and it calmed down quite a bit. But it was a bit to tall for me. I like to be able to get flat footed when of road riding. What was upsetting to me is that even though in the manual and also part of the marketing is that you can have it lowered. But the dealership wouldnt do! So sold it for a bit of a loss. I was hopful the Royal Ensfield would be the answer.

[@twowheeladventures63]

Thank you for acknowledging the valve check interval of the Himalayan 450 That is a major hesitation for me as I am relatively poor, but no one seems to discuss that. I can do the other services, but the 450 valve check is not easy like the 411 and I hear it can be time consuming (i.e. expensive at a shop). Cheers,

[@drd3816]

after the first two valve checks the Himmy gets valve checks every 20,000km--its a non issue So valve check every 10km [2 times] then every 20km--Nathan got that one mixed up

[@twowheeledadventures5615]

⁠@@drd3816I feel it is a big issue still. Himi will be in the 3rd valve check when the cf moto hits the first check.

[@drd3816]

It’s true it will cost more money if you don’t do the device yourself initially but the fuel savings on the HM452 will more than make up the cost difference

[@drd3816]

Both seem like great bikes I’m going to test ride the CF asap but I rented a HM452 for a 300km day ride and that was around half a tank -more impressed than I thought I would have been -felt light low long low end grunt (to me coming off of Hondas CRF and Nx500 currently the HM452 is so much more fun to ride with that torque -I bet you will be happy with either bikes they both are excellent -we are lucky

[@mattsheen6031]

Merry Christmas mate, look forward to seeing you in the new year!

[@deltabluesdavidraye]

Great review. I'm keeping my 411 converting it to carb for better reliability now that it's 5 years old and adding an overbore kit or maybe buying the new Scram 440 engine with six speeds and bolting it into my old Himmy.

[@Sankara561]

One other reason the CFMoto might be more popular with your customers is that they're rare as hens teeth and you've actually got one, whereas they can test out a Himi anywhere (they're even being discounted in a few places). Interesting comparison, for me it will come down to (used) availability, parts and accessories, insurance and running costs which I expect will all swing towards the Himi

[@biker_dale]

Great reviews as always. Having ridden both with yourself I have to say the CFMoto for me, however if RE would have bored out the old Himalayan to 450 I think the choice may have been harder. I just couldn't connect with the look of the new Himalayan, which is why I ended up buying a cheap old Himalayan and love it to bits. Happy Christmas Nathan, hope you have a good one.

[@twowheeledparadox]

They've bored out the old Scram 411 to 443 and added a 6th gear. Let's see when it hits the market.

[@biker_dale]

​I changed the back sprocket to a 40, it's made a big difference

[@phillipcottingham1489]

I bought the Himi mostly because the crash protection came as standard (other than hand guards). I noticed similar issues initially of road with the tall gearing disposition to stall at low revs and top heaviness. But I've done nearly 3k with 60% off road (south Devon, so some tracks I definitely avoid, such as the devil's steps). And it's really grown on me, could just do with some better tyres, running Dunlop trail max and there crap in Devon mud. Enjoy the videos and content.

[@DrDanTDC]

Really appreciate your videos. Always excellent content, thank you! I have money down on an Ibex/Mt 450. But here in the USA, we’re still waiting for them!

[@nathanthepostman]

Yes I hear they've been delayed. Hopefully not long now

[@K300-e8t]

I have the Himalayan 450 - never rode the 411, but think the 450 is outstanding. It really does pull hard at higher revs and I’m finding as the mileage increases the lower rev tractability is improved, but I agree it does feel easier to ride quicker. I am obsessed with it, looking for any chance to ride it. On the typical bad road surfaces I’m finding it unbelievably well composed… but most of all as a B road bike for me it gives a huge grin factor… thinking this will be a bike I hold on to, but I do want something bigger for motorway rides. Great summary video, thank you, and I definitely want to get a day on the CFMoto to compare for myself. (Also downsized from bigger bikes - R1250R most recently before the himi)

[@iangriffiths9930]

I ve had a quick go on the Himmy and I’ve had two test rides in the CFmoto. I’ve had a CRF250 for a few years and a T7 for a few months. If I’d had ridden both the 450s before I’d ridden the T7 I’d have gone with the CFmoto and thought it was a great bike, but after riding the T7 I now think both bikes feel underwhelming.. I think a lot of what people think of these two will depend on what they have been ridding up to that point.

[@RandomPunter-xo9tx]

Another great video getting into the detail of the bikes' characteristics. I liked the Himalayan when I tested it, especially the engine - I gave it death and it loved it. But I didn't find it very comfortable, didn't like the screen and overall preferred the CFMoto which I have had since August. I put on the rally seat and just recently the 15tooth sprocket. I wasn't going to but it is a game changer - really improves the bike for my usage which is 90% road.

[@barrylauth6838]

Years ago, I had a regular 300km route offroad that I did to visit my dad on the farm. It became very apparent very quickly, the thing that made a great adventure bike is supple suspension. It was the difference between being fatigued at the end of the day or not. Sounds like the Himalian would be for me.

[@mark.e.p]

I can't get a demo on a MT 450 and no availability until April at the earliest! I spent 3 hours on the RE 450 and loved it from the off. I've just put a deposit down, OTR price of £4,999. RE have a great dealer back up, aftermarket add ons and spares. It was a no brainer for me.

[@williamlylecameron9345]

Great video thanks Nathan. Your video gives food for thought as I have always thought the RE Himalayan was the bike for me. I guess the best thing to do is, as you have said, is try both bikes and go with the one that you like the most. Thanks for your great videos throughout 2024 and I hope you and yours have a happy Christmas and I look forward to more excellent videos in 2025. 😁

[@robertlowe3520]

Had the Himi 411 for 4years and loved it The dealer support was excellent I bought the 450 as a replacement and loved the fact it felt like the old one but with the top end the 411 didn’t have I like the way the Sidestand is short as it makes it far easier to get on the bike I looked at the 450mt but dealers were limited and you had more chance of getting a test ride on a yeti I have several bikes which are all twins so the idea of a single was more appealing No regrets in buying the Himi and loved every mile that I have covered

[@MTBrider26]

All bikes work until they don't. The trick would be to know when that's going to happen. Both of these are both completely new and are they are selling very well so the definitive answer on reliability and manufacturer support if issues do start to appear will be known sooner rather than later. Both bikes are being subjected to an amazing amount of consumer testing, the results of which will be very interesting.

[@everythingandanything6405]

Enjoyed your assesment of both bikes, did order a CFMOTO, came in early just as price drop came on the Voge rally, for me with no distance work and an old body I changed my order and bought the Voge, primarily for the weight saving and my own personal needs. If that changes the CF MOTO is my choice, hoping to have a ride on a 411 so I can experience one, variety is the spice of life !

[@alanbriggs7177]

I'm keen to see the new BMW. Hopefully it won't price itself out of consideration.

[@nickfry7705]

Looking forward to the Suzuki DRZ4. That might also be a contender.

[@thehoelzels6316]

It's great to see you using the CFMOTO as a rental motorcycle. I'll be getting one in next year here in Canada to see if that's what I'm going to get for a small fleet of rentals.

[@ianbooth4255]

Interesting to hear how your feelings about the Himi have changed since your first review. I think that you sometimes have to get to know a bike before you start to really appreciate what is really is (this is true of so many things including people, and for me guitars!).

[@MiKeTuScAnI]

Nice vid. I got a 450MT for a 4th bike jejeje I just don’t want to take my 1300GS to dirt.

[@davidmatthews3093]

I have had an A2 bike for three years now since downsizing from an ST1300 Pan European. I think that a lot of people who have not done likewise can understand that the smaller bikes are a much more interesting bike to ride everyday. Strangely riding motorcycles is not all about power. My bike will, if if I want it to, accelerate from 0-60 faster than any car I’ve ever owned and reach speeds more than 50 mph above the U.K. speed limit. I can enjoy riding it without having to think after the first few seconds, I really should back off a bit now. I use mine as a travel/touring bike and since getting it my average annual mileage has doubled. It takes me and my camping gear where I want to go as fast as I want to go. I for one will not be buying another too expensive, too powerful, too heavy and too expensive motorcycle, I’ve found my sweet spot and that is what counts.

[@chrisgreen1094]

I only watched owners / riders reviews of the CFMOTO 450MT and that’s what sold me, I didn’t watch any journalists reviews or CFMOTO marketing until after test riding one. So I agree it sells itself. I just have to be patient now waiting for the bike to arrive in the spring. Great review 👍

[@jaygrafton3048]

Have a friend here in the USA with a deposit on the MT450. CFmoto still have not released the bike here yet but I can't wait to ride it. I want one of these 2 bike but at the end of the day I am looking for more of longer distance small touring bike with some gravel road ability. I may have to swallow my pride and just buy a bland used CB500X - don't really want a NX. By the way I picked up a RE 350 Classic this past fall for more short distance touring work. I lightly scrambled it with plus 20mm Hagon shocks and Shinko 804/805 tires. It is a hoot on our gravel roads.

[@shopaccount6446]

Excellent informative video….. thanks

[@trevorsmith8487]

Cheers for putting a vid out on crimbo eve, it was my relaxed viewing this even. Happy Christmas Nathan

[@nathanthepostman]

No worries Trevor. Have a good one!

[@davidkelly-cl4mj]

Thanks for sharing Nathan. Merry Christmas and happy new year See you in 2025

[@nathanthepostman]

You too. Thanks David!

[@MaxUtley]

I think Nathan is one of best adventure bike reviewers out there- a British version of Big Rock Moto and Chronicles of Solid. Big praise. Like me Nathan has actually ridden around the world as a true “adventurer”. I got some flack for critcising the Missenden Flyer online - as if I had said someone’s sister is ugly - but I stand by my criticism of his reviews because I feel he doesn’t know what he’s talking about as regards adventure bikes and the spirit of true global adventure on every surface and every condition planet Earth has to offer. Nathan on the other hand is the epitome of an adventurer, he is well researched, his vocabulary and ability to analyse and appraise is second to none. I am considering the CF Moto MT450 for my big America trip this year on many BDRs. I own bikes here and there and was thinking of Kove 800 Rally or Aprilia Tuareg - but there is something about the 450 that will be reassuring. I rode a CF Moto across every province of China - including Tibet, Xinjiang and the tough Qinghai and Gansu and Inner Mongolia and it never missed a pace - even long hauls on the awful unfinished road and fast highways

[@Whatreally123]

The Guerilla's map seems to make the throttle response much better on this 450 Sherpa engine. Maybe RE can re-egnineer the map on the Himlayan soon

[@nathanthepostman]

That's interesting. Haven't tried a guerilla yet

[@davelydiard5004]

Cracking video 👍great review of both bikes . I’m patiently waiting delivery in the new year of the CF moto can’t wait to get it great routes you have ridden on your tours . Have a great Christmas .

[@nathanthepostman]

You too. Thanks Dave

[@eddiejefferies3659]

I am still yet to purchase anything currently on offer, and have been going in a multitude of different directions. I think that I might actually buy a new 411 and be done with it. I have gradually come to the conclusion that it probably suits my requirements the best.

[@nathanthepostman]

Great bikes. Great price on them as well at the minute

[@eddiejefferies3659]

​@@nathanthepostman Definitely. I also think it could be a bike for life. I can't see me saying the same about the other two bikes.

[@markchurchward482]

Great video again Nathan, Have a great Christmas and happy New Year 👍

[@neilbenton1152]

Probably only reason I purchased my mt450 was purely on looks alone compared to the him, I think the mt450 looks really modern, the him looks old fashioned to me , I picked up my mt450 and have to say it's fantastic fun , ❤

[@magaudion]

Himmy 450 is the discerning choice of the con a sewer ! Merry Christmas Nathan . Keep up the good work and no bull shit approach in 2025 🎅🏻

[@Trigsbroom]

Interesting comments ref Enfield 450. When I've ridden one, I've treated it like an old fashioned single, so probably didn't get to the power and felt underwhelmed. It sounds like it's best ridden like a KTM 690, or a twin, or even a 2-stroke! The next time I try one, I'll be a bit more rev and throttle-happy.

[@TheSar]

Went to my dealer 6 months ago to downsize from a DL1050XT to the Himmi 450 and saw they also had the CF 450MT which I had been curious about. Took the Himmi out - liked it - thought "yep I could get on with this." Took the CF 450MT out - and wow - thought "this bike has no business being this good" Bought the CF on the spot and took it home 2 days later. A very accomplished bike for what it is.

[@JoeriQuiksilver]

Same Here, went to test the himi and walked out with the CF. impressive bike

[@jaspreetbains2776]

I found the reverse liked the himi over the cfmoto after riding them

[@runarjans]

I wonder which of these will serve me the longest. The cfm looks more fragile. Obviously could be totally wrong though

[@JoeriQuiksilver]

@@runarjans test ride both if you can!

[@percentbigfoot]

I think terrain has a lot to do with people liking or not liking the bikes. Himalayan does well for the terrain it was made. Many people have now put it to test. I feel like it's not particularly felt at home in the UK

[@andrewlindley837]

Having ridden 100 or so miles on my brother's Him 450 and recently tried a Gorilla the strength of the engine impresses. At my age though I'll stick with my CCM on trails.....200kg is just too heavy for me One of my bikes is a 1987 Honda XBR 500 which constantly impresses me with 44hp and little weight. Rarely need more than 4k revs ! Have been astonished to find that Honda have been selling the XR650L in America for the last 30 years with basically the same engine. It weighs 159kg and costs 7k dollars at the moment. I wonder how that old thumper compares with the modern stuff ? All the Best.

[@KevinBrown-m5z]

Also looking forward to the new Suzuki.

[@robannebenson3770]

Nathan - Another great video! I appreciate your unfiltered opinions! I'm still debating ordering CF Moto 450, Scrambler 400X or trying to find a lightly used CRF400 Rally. I'll be 90% roads, 10% dirt roads, but you never know about the future adventures... Merry Christmas!

[@robannebenson3770]

sorry - typo - or wishful thinking... CRF300...

[@jerameelinit341]

A crf400 would be cool

[@vaerenbergh]

I own the himi 450 tubeless, i love the engine being soft down low and hard top. It is a lineair power delivery but it picks up more and more the higher the revs. I had a CBR600rr completely tuned it up and i also had that split engine personality. I love that, you feel it come alive. I think it is perfect. Still need some mods to make it to the T.E.T. bike i have in mind. Also double the distance for maintenance compared to the CFmoto. I love chuging the himi it in low revs, it does not tempt me to speed (wich i do to easely), and if i need to speed up quickly i do the same as with every bike: drop a gear and disapear. Also your info on the valvecheque is wrong. At 10.000km/6.000mi and 20.000km/12.000mi are valvecheques yes but after that it is every 20.000km/12.000mi for a valve cheques, altough in the himi community on fb i see some people saying there garages did not need to do a valvecheque at 10.000/6.000mi, so take that for what you wil. Also just my opinion here, but the CFmoto has 2mm less diameter in suspension wich is not so good, and you can say "But its adjustable", okay race mechanic, tell me how much time you ride and how much time you spend on thinkering with the suspension, put lugage on it and/or a passenger and get anal about the suspension setup. Himi only has rear preload adjustability becayse when taking on extra weight tvat os the only real thing to concern yourself woth if you got a good suspension as is. So the himi still seems the better bike compared to the cfmoto in my view, not to say CFmoto made a bad bike but i find more positives about my himi than any other adv bike. Great video thanks

[@adamtwatson1977]

Hello Nathan - thanks for another great video! you really get to the core of how these two 450's behave and how riders take to them - I am in the market and going to have a look at them both but do wonder how the KTM 390 Adventure sits in this line up? (I am new to trails but had a lot of street / touring motorbikes- knees/back still in good shape @ 47). Want a proper adventure this year. thanks again from a fellow insomniac!

[@idontwantahandle12345]

Great debate and respectful about everyone having different wants and needs. Just a thought I had. I can see 450’s bought in 2024 still going strong in 15 to 20 years, not sure the same can be said about the CFMoto’s. But let’s see.

[@martinkeefe7107]

Nath You and Chris and somewhat Nevsy, are the only KZbinrs I really enjoy Honest no holds barred reviews I’d like to see you try out the middle weights and give your opinion on them, both on and off road. Cheers

[@phillipchandler8862]

I think your right there Nathan with those two, just buy the one that appeals most. I would say if you are doing mostly local runs and trails don't buy either. Get a Voge 300 Rally. Best to you and family at Christmas.🎄🎄

[@davidholden2658]

I've been trying to decide between these two for some time and in the end decided to get the 450MT. I haven't ridden one so it's a bit of a risk but it will be interesting to try something from a different manufacturer and find out for myself the truth about modern Chinese bikes.

[@nathanthepostman]

Right choice

[@davidholden2658]

@@nathanthepostman I think so and if it turns out I don't like it I don't think I'll have any problem moving it on given how popular they seem to be.

[@Kiran1998.]

Unreliable chinese scrap!

[@davew-jk5te]

The CF Moto 450 is a great bike Issues re the 450 himalayan extend/weld the side stand that issue sorted. Very few people have talked about changing either front or rear sprockets like a lot of people are now doing with the cf moto & triumph 400x. Also a remap of the Himalayan would improve the power band especially with a sprocket change to make it biased towards more off road power lower in the rev range also improve the on road manners. Or go buy a new 411 for £3795 OTR as its epic value for money!.

[@EngtecTrials]

I have the Himi 450. I got it the tail end of July, I am 70. When I first saw the bike thoughts were, the side stand too short and the gear and brake lever will bend but I can fix this as I have spent the last 40 years making Ariel trials bike frames etc. The first few weeks with the bike almost seemed painful with the running in speed a max of 4k rpm which equates to 50mph. But soon I stopped noticing the weight off the side stand. It's twice the weight of my Ariel HT trials bike and with more ground clearance. I am considering lowering the suspension by 30mm this should make the ability to "foot" a lot better and might make the weight feel less any one lowered their bike ?? It looks like spares are a problem my front brake pressure switch is leaking and have been waiting two months for a dealer to get the parts. Liked your video about tyres thinking about a change as when I go to do video's at motorcycle trials the standard tyres are not up to it.

[@1990-t1j]

The RE looks better, but I don't like the sound of its lack of low-down shove. I'm a fan of the 411, too, especially the Scram. Looking forward to seeing the air-cooled Scram 440 here in Asia. Anyone who can't take the RE off its side stand needs to get in a gym. Have a go with my SCR950 which also leans right over. Very interesting video, Nathan. Nick

[@UncannySense]

looks are subjective. I think the 452 looks awful. 411 had a utility charm about it. CFMoto looks modern and sounds fkn awesome

[@TheClassicMotorcycleChannel]

Good video Nathan!

[@widephil]

Great review... I do love changing from my 411 to a 450..... it is better for me.... it had greater carrying ability 2 up with luggage...and could sit a motorway like that superbly. I do miss my 411s simplicity and the way it felt lighter, but for me I needed a few more ponies. I haven't test ridden the CF, but when I sat on one it felt more cramped to me, and it just didn't look as robust... very nice though

[@davespruce4362]

Interesting thoughts Nathan. I've got a 450 Himalayan and I agree with everything you are saying. Personally, I like the split personality of the bike, nice and soft around town, but enough grunt when you want it. It handles better than a lot of more expensive bikes and for me, personaly, it's comfortable. The sidestand is a nuisance to start with but you soon get used to it. Much better on long runs since I fitted a taller Givi screen. Definitely will be trying the CF Moto and the Voge 525 next time I change bikes. Thanks for your videos, really enjoy them.

[@teneretraveller8980]

Have to respect your opinion as you have so much experience on both bikes. Out East still no test bike for CF and ny nearest dealer niw closed. (1 hour away) So spares and servicing are an issue. And that translates across Europe and other places, too. These things matter when you travel as you know, especially with the different servicing intervals. The second valve check on the Himmy is 12000 after the first one. To improve the Himmy yiu spend £100 on a wrs screen, and fut barkbusters. Weather protection sorted, and i agree it needed to be. Everything else is there. To improve the cf you need suspension, mainstand, handguards. A fair bit more dosh. Plan to keep it and travel extensively. 2 up, although we are both small. In short i think we are now luckily to have so much choice at this size of bike. There aren't any bad choices. Ride safe and Merry Xmas 👍

[@sydhoyle35]

Thanks for the honest opinions, I have the Himmy, would love to come down to Devon and get out on your trails mate, Merry Xmas

[@MikeNoLimits]

Nice video as always! I test drove both and the CF-MOTO 450MT felt easier and lighter to handle on the street with lots of traffic. Also the Himalayan seemed more polite and less technology to me so I didn’t choose it, for now. I ordered my CF-MOTO 450MT early December and it won’t arrive before March as my dealer said. In Greece (and most of Europe) they are sold out for 3-4 months already.

[@sergentcolon1]

I test rode the Guerrilla and to me it makes more of the engine than the Himalayan, it’s more usable more often in its road biased guise with even more nimble handling and is a very exciting bike. It does however encourage you to ride faster than maybe you otherwise would, I found it to be a “hooligan” bike in a similar way the original Honda Hornet 600 was (just a bit less, more of an 8 than a 11 out of 10 like the Hornet).

[@nathanthepostman]

Interesting to hear Serge. i'll have to try and get a go on one.

[@aviduke]

Because of a low budget i cant afford the crf300L these 2 are my options. Thanks for making this video

[@alanwrigley8156]

I ride my 450 Himalayan in eco mode sometimes when on smaller back roads especially this time of year when they are full of gravel patches, mud and water This seems to help it pull easier at low rpm in the first 4 gears then 5th and 6th are full power

[@EngtecTrials]

me too.

[@reinistraidas]

I agree to the points you make. I test rode both the 450 Himi and the 450MT and found that for me, the Himi was top heavy, unwieldy, not approachable, a bit too intense and also buzzy at highway speeds. I would say that it felt more buzzy than the old 411. The CFMOTO on the other hand felt lighter, smoother, easier to throw around, was better equipped, more comfortable, lower and somehow more confidence inspiring.

[@Forest_Rebel]

Have been taking my 450 on the trails in the dales and moors, not babied it, and its done great. The few changes that transformed it offroad for me were knobblier tyres (AX41s), foldable mirrors, and using eco mode for steep rocky uphills. What i dont like is its about 20kg heavier than it should be so can be hard to lift, some parts are easy to bend/break, it gets hot real quick, and it stalls way too easy. Eco mode helps but its a sod to make progress over steep rocky stuff that needs clutch control.

[@nigel7768]

I’m throwing something different in the mix, have you looked at the Mutt Straivag 401 ? It’s getting to be a very competitive market in this capacity range, the Scram 440 with the six speed box has also grabbed my attention. Getting spoiled for choice

[@notkaty]

I like how Nathan can say exactly what and who a bike is for. Not just being lazy and saying X is good Y is bad.

[@nathandalleave252]

I bought the Triumph 400 scrambler and fall more in love with it every day, but I had to go test ride the new himalayan of course- I wasn't impressed, I'll stick with my Triumph. it has power where I need it and feels so much lighter and flickable compared to the Himi. I do love the old 411 but again I like the triumph better. I haven't tried out the 450MT but I think I'm going to keep pushing the Triumph. Love the video! keep em coming!

[@nathanthepostman]

Triumph 400x update video to follow Yes, agreed Great bikes

[@markw2k7]

Merry Christmas Nathan!

[@leslieaustin151]

Tough when you wake up that early - especially when your family will probably wake you up again the NEXT morning with “Father Christmas has been!!” Thanks for your sensible comments and assessments throughout the year. Whenever anyone else is raving about or condemning a new trail bike I always wait for ’what Nathan says’. I admit I found it difficult when Chris at BikeWorld seemed to greatly differ from your opinion on the new Himmy, but he has a very different style to you. I think you’ve now reconciled that difference. I’d like to be present if you ever met up to discuss the bike! Happy Christmas… and sleep well tonight🤣 Les

[@kenwarren5129]

Great video Nathan. Think this will get lots of views over the next few years. What are the luggage carrying options on these two bikes, is one more capable than the other in terms of being loaded up? Something else I’d like to mention as a rider coming down from a Triumph 955i triple engine is single cylinder engines propensity to be ‘vibey’. Test rode a 411 after watching your videos but wasn’t for me, too vibey on the road through the bars at 55-60. Now is that just something I’d have to try to get used to, it being inherent in a single? Main reason I’m interested in the CF Moto to be honest. Finally, did you mention previously the 400x had been upgraded with RallyRaid products? If so, how much extra cost for the spec of the bike you have? Cheers.

[@pawelwolski1316]

Every time o ride my Hunter 350......Updated Himalayan with that 350 J engine, that would be a proper Royal. Really wanted 35 ish, fixed suspension Honda Rally. We ended up with two Mt450s. 15t, ecu tune for the off idle hole (cable slack does not fix it much), bash plate and good to go for now. At 75kgs, yes the front is bit stiff.

[@murrayhyde4902]

Thanks for the ramble. I still love my 411 scram. I even put the himi 411 front wheel on it. Merry Xmas from oz.

[@brucecampbell4485]

I recently bought probably the last 411 Sram sold in Australia. Does the 21" front fix its issues in deep loose gravel/sand? As standard it is definitely not confidence inspiring. On normal gravel roads (most of my riding) it is fine. Reason I bought the Scram was because of seat height. I can't reach the ground on either 450MT or 450 Himi. At my age (78) being able to reach the ground is becoming increasingly important.

[@murrayhyde4902]

@brucecampbell4485 Hello Bruce, i don't ride too much in sand, mostly gravel. It certainly helps me. But part of the improvement is the wider options In front knobby tyre options. I think the bike weight and low power will hold it back in deep sand tho. Im 54 and still learning. But i love my scram 411 for its versatility. I hope I'm still riding any bike by age 78. 😄

[@brucecampbell4485]

@@murrayhyde4902 Thanks Murray. I definitely don't go looking for sand, but occasionally come across it on gravel roads. At that point the bike gets a bit wandery. Will consider either the 21" front or changing out to a 90-90/19. Probably end up leaving it as is and getting on with it.

[@murrayhyde4902]

@brucecampbell4485 yep great attitude.... I play around a bit too much with the standard settings. I love the 411 to because I'm short as well. I ride a lot in the otways victoria. Where are you riding?

[@brucecampbell4485]

@@murrayhyde4902 Mid North Coast NSW. My adventures often take me up towards Qld border - lotsa forest roads in that whole area. Otways are good too - lots of scenery for photographs.

I agree too much tech / electronics on a bike always seems to be the weak point.

[@jerzywoking1699]

If there is no progress, we would all be riding BSA Bantams in a smog filled UK.

[@dewipeach]

Well Nathan.. nice update on both, since following you're running both and truely valuated and maked comparisons.. I've not been compeled to tradeout my 411.. sadly the afternoon, 4:30-4:45 Christmas Eve, parties as yet unknown and whats means removed it from well lit, open space, in full view, not overly busy Morrisons Car Park Cannock..! Was as quick as my last minute Turkey shop.. costly Turkey. First in 50+ years of owning any mode of transport had something stolen.. would the parties feel guilty of taking my only means of transport and unlikely to replace... F@ck no.. an not likely have Sleepless nights.

[@hartley383]

As a 411 owner who recently rode a mates 450 I was surprised at how different it felt. I too felt that you sit on top of the bike rather than in it as on the original. It’s lost it’s easy going, plodding nature that for a novice off roader is reassuring. It’s part of the charm of the 411 and why most ( not all ) owners love them. To me the 450 is a different bike, its good but it’s not a Himalayan. I think RE could have kept the 411 going alongside. Incidentally my friend has come down from Africa twins, 1200 GS, 1200 Scrambler to the 450 and has had to up the mileage on his insurance because he can’t stay off it, absolutely loves it.

[@bsc1463]

Best reviews on the internet ! Thanks Nathan ! I had a CB500X Rally Raid with the 471cc engine and I'm quite sure you did also . Just curious how the CB measures up to the 450 MT as they seem like similar bikes to me with the twin and engine size being close . Thank you and Seasons Greetings !

[@nathanthepostman]

Yes I had the cb500x with RR2 kit on. I liked it. It was decent. But the package never quite worked as a whole foe me as the bike was never designed for an off road intention. The CF moto for me is better dynamically than the honda, certainly off road, has a more charismatic engine and just feels a more resolved bike. Honda probably better for more road based touring

[@aviduke]

I had the rr2 kit with my ABS cb500x . Did you ever find a way to adjust the suspension withiut it being overly fiddly and time consuming? Seemed almost like a fully adjustable yet non adjustable suspension!

[@Aprival]

Tried both bikes. The CF Moto 450MT has some issues with the front break (no bites). The seat is too low and you need to upgrade to a rally seat. Wind protection is no good and needs to be upgraded to a new windshield. No center stand so you need to get one. The wheel size is really weird 140 in the rear so it will be challenging and difficult to get the right size if you need to upgrade. The engine is not my favorite. The bike off road felt weird, no grip. For an all rounder bike it is also key to know the temperature around you to see if you are riding on ice or on icy condition. There is no temperature sensor on the CF Moto. The Royal Enfield Himalayan 452 is a different beast but like any bikes with some flows. The windshield is too short but WRS has a great after market one. For the rest the bike is really superb. Great engine above 3000rpm. Extremely comfortable bike off road, the suspension is perfect as it is. Perfectly tuned. I felt extremely comfortable on the worst muddy trail you can find near Grenoble after the snow melted. I had great confidence in the bike. I used the CF-450MT on the exact same trail and well it was a different story. I felt more comfortable and safer on the himalayan when riding on the motorway to come back to the dealer. The sherpa engine is alive not like the CF-Moto 450MT. It is a mono cylinder so the engine vibrate and the engine is alive. In conclusion it is good to have more choices in the 400 category. Everyone will agree. At the end of the day I preferred the 452 Himalayan because the bike has more personality. You know the bike will bring you to your destination and you can ride on motorways. Royal Enfield tested the bike under the worst conditions to show its qualities. Character and heritage are important and Royal Enfield went above those with this new bike. The most important is your opinion at the end. Both bikes are worth to be tested.