The Shroud of Turin

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[@Scrapla1]

The mental gymnastics people use to defend religion is hilarious.

[@jacklively5229]

So many of these callers are like vampires-show them a mirror and they still can’t see themselves

[@Metaljacket420]

They also often hiss at you as they recoil from the harsh light of reality.

[@-gearsgarage-]

The shroud of turdin! It’s an artistic 💩 drawing

[@gowdsake7103]

We even know how it was made

[@CalinoFG]

Exactly!

[@hailsagan8886]

The shroud is an obvious medieval forgery.

[@queuecee]

It was thought to be a medieval forgery during the medieval times. So it was considered a fraud from the beginning. It was used from the beginning to make money. One of the bishops at the time sent a letter to the pope declaring that it's a forgery. Bishop D'Arcis told the pope that his predecessor as Bishop of Troyes, Henry of Poitiers, had fairly quickly discovered “the fraud” and obtained a confession from the artist who produced it that it was “a work of human skill and not miraculously wrought or bestowed.”

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

yes, it's a painting, not an imprint of bodily fluids or "the light of the body" ... there is no depth to anything on the image, you only see the nose from the front, while if the cheeks and chin are visible it would have needed to be stretched along the sides of the nose too. there are no EARS... It feels to me as if all those defending its authenticity never took one second to actually look at the darned rug!

[@bllla]

The catholic guy hit note for note every spanky claim 😅

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

Just with less authority and credibility ;)

[@corringhamdepot4434]

I remember this BS "modern" study. They claimed to be able to test the rate of "structural degradation" of the linen of the Turin Shroud using X Rays. A new test they invented specifically to test the shroud. A test which had not been used to test any other linen samples. I guess getting cooked in a fire in 1532 wouldn't have had any effect on the "structural degradation" of the linen. 🤣

[@lubrew5862]

The paper was just an exercise in confirmation bias. Technique was not cross checked with other known dated samples and a whole ton of assumptions were used to get the date they wanted..

[@dansmith7009]

@@lubrew5862no, it looks like the technique *was* checked against other fabric samples whose age was known. However, they point at which it still fails completely is, that the methodology shows that the shroud fabric would be consistent with microscopic cellulose in the fabric experiencing about 2,000 years of breaking down at normal temperature and humidity. Which absolutely goes out the window once we are discussing a possible medieval fake, because it assumes that nothing was done that would artificially age the cloth. Which we already know was done with fakes to make them look older, with a bunch of different techniques. Regardless, even if the results were reliable and true, would still not make it reasonable to conclude a natural and real miraculous shroud, but rather would equally indicate a very early 1st or 2nd century fake.

[@dansmith7009]

Actually, even MORE importantly, even if the linen fabric tested to be ancient, all that would indicate is that the person who made the hoax 700 years ago tracked down an old piece of linen fabric to use. The shroud image is not the same age as the shroud fabric. In the same way that a granite tombstone being dated as millions of hundreds of millions of years old is correct, as that is when the granite cooled from liquid, but does not actually tell us anything about when the piece of granite was cut out of the ground and carved into a tombstone.

[@mattm8870]

I looked at the paper/study it online the one major thing I noticed is you can get what ever result you want out of it based on the assumptions you make about the conditions the linen is exposed to. Plus the WAXS data in Figure 2 shows there's something fishy with the Shroud as between 6 and 9 nm the Shroud is way way higher on the Y axis than I expect it to be.

[@corringhamdepot4434]

@@dansmith7009 I skimmed another report that they had proved by isotope testing that the linen was of Near Eastern origin. Which again proves nothing. As there are loads of similar fakes in museums. You would assume that something as important as the shroud would have a much better "chain of custody".

[@planetpeterson2824]

Hello! So, this video might have been confusing because I accidentally left in about 10 minutes of material that should not have been included. The video should have ONLY included the guy who went by Catholic something. Sorry for the stupid oversight. I have trimmed the video so eventually KZbin will cut those unnecessary parts out.

[@foolishlyludicrous]

I like "nonphysical causality." It encapsulates naturalism without falling into the whole "emotions and concepts aren't physical" thing.

[@Metaljacket420]

The way he argues against his own side without even realizing it because you're espousing the one true God Sparky is amazing!

[@brianlawlor1253]

Even if the shroud is the burial cloth of a crucified victim, so what? How does it show a resurrection?

[@queuecee]

They claim that the stain image is from some high energy radiation that they think was caused by the resurrection event.

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

it doeas not even credibly show a 3D body. it's just some icon-style painting made when art had not quite mastered all dimensions and people realized a dead body would have Ears or a nose that is sticking out from the face (so either not showin all of the face due to "tenting" or showing both sides of the nose as well as the front. It's also not the least bit distorted in any way around curves and such... No way it's a real body's impression. Which is obvious at a casual glance.

[@BaronVonQuiply]

Evidently resurrection involves setting off a nuke inside the corpse, hence the resulting gamma shadows

[@CalinoFG]

This guy really made my brain explode🎇

[@Leah-vr7di]

I recreate this when I’m menstruating.

[@tizocgutierrez251]

I was so looking forward to Peterson, mopping the floor with this guy with the actual facts

[@planetpeterson2824]

Yeah I don’t know much about the x ray study so I included the conclusion section from the paper. It’s pretty obvious it’s horribly flawed

[@DoctorX101]

@@planetpeterson2824 Did not Don Nickel disprove the Shroud like before you and the asshat screaming at you were born? Hell, I think he reproduced the damn thing!

[@lubrew5862]

@@planetpeterson2824 The paper was just an exercise in confirmation bias.

[@tizocgutierrez251]

@@planetpeterson2824 senpai notice me!!!!

[@BaronVonQuiply]

01:42 _"Where can we see the Spanky Bible?"_ You already know, for it is written on your heart In crayon, yes, but a very tasty flavor

[@Ploskkky]

Theists are so thick. Their mind has been soaked and is drowned in their fantasy world.

[@harveybernstein9203]

Get him back! I want more!

[@doranku]

9:50 the origin of Spanky! How dare you to call it random, it was predestined.

[@cygnusustus]

God-Thumper: "The Shoud Of Turin is evidence for God!" Spanky's Apostle: "Ok, let's just google the Shroud Of Turin here...." God-Thumper: "I'm done talking about the Shroud Of Turn. I have other evidence...."

[@cygnustsp]

Your name tho

[@cygnusustus]

@@cygnustsp No, your name.

[@GAm3r52]

Spanky is God, and zipzop was sent by God to get sacrificed to save us from our sins

[@eukaryote-prime]

As soon as he mentioned the X-ray thing I wanted to ask him detailed questions to see if he knew anything about what he was talking about or just regurgitating… but of course he didn’t…

[@davids11131113]

AHA but could ya be WRONG about that eh? …. Sorry just channeling Ray Comfort there

[@darkerrorcode]

That study assumes things that would exactly confirm their bias, so.

[@mattm8870]

Huh did he say the WAXS test was done in 2012? That funny as the paper dated to 2022 and as for WAXS and textile dating the idea was only created in 2019 and based on 7 samples so who knows how well calibrated it is. Also the paper profile of the should in Figure 2 look off to me and it also clear the results you get out depends on the assumptions you make about the average temperature it was exposed to. It follows that the fire in 1532 in which the should was burnt by molten sliver (need to be at lest 961.8 °C or no molten sliver) surely would have effected the results making the should look older than it is.

[@glitterlok]

I have similar feelings about the shroud of Turin and Trump. Like, I look at them, and I hear what people are saying about them...and I have no idea what they're talking about. Please, please, please just _look_ at the shroud of Turin, folks. Pull up pictures and look at it. If your reaction is "wow, this must be the result of wrapping a cloth around a person," go and check yourself into the nearest mental health facility.

[@robertcarlyle6102]

Yeah but how do you know that picture is a deepfake? BECAUSE I LOOKED AT IT WITH MY EYES, GRANDMA

[@Farce13]

What? You got some serious tds. Like how in the hell are those two things even remotely related

[@glitterlok]

@@Farce13 Did you stop reading after the first period? I explained the comparison.

[@Farce13]

@@glitterlok you explanation falls short. Yes I read it

[@Ugly_German_Truths]

@@Farce13 Both are obviously at first look fakes and only some VERY mentally challenged people deny that. You are a proof in point. Finally something to be proud of!

[@CeezGeez]

9:20 The concept of our Lord and Savior Spanky goes back way further than a year. In fact, the bible even references Spanky in a few of the gospels. I suggest you do your own research.

[@rylanasher4756]

12:50 "dur, we haff devyne revalayshun to prove God is true." My brother in Christ, don't debate online anymore.

[@SweHall]

Do you have a co-host or manager know or what is happening?

[@larryscarr3897]

Appearing as guest on breakfasttacos.. I think.

[@mitzzzu_tigerjones444]

Shroud of urine

[@heruraha93]

Is that breakfast tacos? Love the atheist presup

[@hailsagan8886]

Is it a debate w otangelo?

[@hailsagan8886]

Nope. No shroud boy

[@naruarthur]

i see what you did there

[@AlexPBenton]

Non… physical… causality…

[@seraphinaaizen6278]

For the sake of what little faith I have left in humanity, I hope that guy who clearly didn't get the Spanky device was trolling. I don't want to believe that anyone could be that stupid. The Shroud of Turin is clearly intended as a piece of artwork, probably Byzantine in origin. It isn't anatomically accurate, it has strategic censorship of the naughty bits, and a person who was actually placed under a shroud would not produce such an effect anyway. It was probably created as a piece of artwork and not intended to be taken seriously. But then the Catholic church got a hold of it and, because they're a corrupt, criminal cult, they started touting it as real.

[@CeezGeez]

Peterson literally explained why he uses Spanky as a way to show them that their arguments are poop. And the other caller STILL jumped in with a poop argument.

[@TerryUniGeezerPeterson]

Calker Kermit is pretty ignorant.

[@russellmyers934]

The Shroud of Turin is like a litmus test for the most gullible religious fanatics imaginable.

[@kaseysheridan3863]

Too bad he left at the end cause I was literally about to give my life to Christ 😩

[@danielessex2162]

His instant go to is "You can't find your bible so you have no reason to believe" ....????? WTF kinda sense is that. So if I can't find my math homework, I have zero proof that 2+2=4? If I can not find a biology book I have no reason to believe evolution occurs? So wait wait wait . He claims that because the Spanky bible is not i front of you, you lack any and all evidence. Then yells he does not have any evidence of his claims in front of him?

[@lubrew5862]

“The image is in the nanometer range”… pure word salad without context. I know if this study that proves me right! Okay what is the name of the study??? I don’t know…. This dude was just regurgitating things he knew nothing about..

[@mattm8870]

Pretty sure its this one "X-ray Dating of a Turin Shroud’s Linen Sample" on mdpi.

[@lubrew5862]

@@mattm8870I read the paper. I think the guy was trying to refer to it in his nonsense but didn’t know the name of the paper. His comment about nanometers was just pure word salad in the context of what he was saying. The paper he was trying to refer to is just an exercise in confirmation bias. It was actually kind of comical to me..

[@Nipponing]

Bad will to actually look at the thing you present? Haha.

[@Catearsperson69]

first

[@thedrizzle21]

I hate philosophy bros

[@LuigiMordelAlaume]

I get Eric's motivation to maximize entertainment value, but he comes across as condescending and devoid of any charitability to the point that he doesn't allow any opponent's arguments go beyond the first sentence. Going back like 3 months he could at least engage with the idiots and lay out how they're dumb but this is literally unwatchable... It's Darth Dawkins' cringe tier.

[@bokoura]

k bye 👋

[@user-yp7gp9cg6o]

Laying a clothe on a body for 3 days won't do anything. Prove me wrong 😅

[@jamierichardson7683]

You say that like you have experience 🤔

[@user-yp7gp9cg6o]

@@jamierichardson7683 Maybe I do.

[@gowdsake7103]

Its a fake with a known method using common chemicals

[@Farce13]

Pretty sure it would stink after three days

[@mandiblekesselrun7049]

I recommend watching the series of videos by Reason to Doubt. Every claim this guy makes is addressed in them in agonizing detail