The Silver Tongue vs The Iron Fist - Deviant Ollam

[@AlexiLaiho227]

when he said that thing about "our community can have its own rules that reflects its ethics" it just made me love this dude 500x more

[@DeviantOllam]

thanks! :-)

[@dannyoi7173]

Been having a Deviant marathon. You do good work man. A smart man with a big heart. The world needs more people like ya 🐨👯

[@krackle3642]

Dang, this talk changed my life. Thanks, Olaf.

[@katiedonovanAlt]

Thank you for this, Dev! I've not been back to DC since 6 because I just knew after I came out it would not be alright. Maybe after the world starts turning again I'll go back!

[@rosiemccattail6350]

did she call him deviant olaf?

[@Nite0wl]

That is the correct pronunciation of "ollam". en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ollam

[@MichaelBerthelsen]

Yeah, he was in Frozen, wasn't he?😉

[@NapoleonGelignite]

Nite 0wl - actually the pronunciation is more like Olav, as the original Gaelic ends in ‘mh’ which is pronounced as a soft v.

[@TonyVirelli]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iqbUZquNbtKXf68

[@Samplehorse]

Interestingly the name means “a master in a skill set” or there about. I think it’s very fitting. His name was very very perfect for what he does.

[@esper6119]

god bless this absolute lad

[@Average_Geo]

Amazing content! I will have to watch this again. and again. and probably again with a notepad! This has some much relevance in my POA community right now! Thank you for the guidance to follow forward!

[@coffeegonewrong]

+1 for the notepad. 2 pages of notes later......

[@coffeegonewrong]

Thanks @DeviantOllam for this. Just a thought, there are more communities with their own rules above and beyond the criminal justice system. The first example I thought of was lawyers. They have their local bar association or law society to deal with breaches of professional standards of conduct. (Or so TV leads me to believe). While the consequences for breaking rules may not lead to jail, they can always kick you out of the club.

[@Crlarl]

Same thing with a lot of certified professions: Doctors, engineers, teachers, architects, social workers and to be a few.

[@laospeedwagon3023]

Coffeegonewrong: Isn’t that exactly what he said when he talked about the military, tribal courts, and defcon? Did you miss that part of the keynote, or did you want to bolster his point by showing even more organizations which have non-criminal codes conduct? Just wondering.

[@coffeegonewrong]

L.A.O. SpeedWagon I wanted to give more examples I knew of.

[@TheDRAGONFLITE]

Gotta love a Deviant talk. Always refreshing, always learn something.

[@csours]

Best talk I've heard in a while

[@wheezyair]

I love Deviant Ollam

[@DeviantOllam]

Love you back 👍💚

[@gwartard]

So when do we get a podcast out of you? Love every talk you do

[@DeviantOllam]

I don't think I'll likely do a podcast, but I might do Q&A sessions once in a while.

[@gwartard]

@@DeviantOllam alright. We gotta get you on Rogan at the very least.

[@MichaelBerthelsen]

Awesome talk as always, Ollam!👍 And something WAY more people in positions of power/authority, especially in the security space, needs to see. De-escalation is hard to do right, but vital to avoid further trouble, even down the line, as people can be vindictive as hell if they feel badly wronged... Great job, hope it inspires more people to get the right kind of training! Maybe include link to how to get the DoJ training you got, in case some viewers are interested?😉

[@AdMan-The-LabRat]

"Zoom-Zoom-Ahhh-Beep-Beep," @ 28:38, "... Because this is my lane and I am Square in the middle of it and I will honk my horn right on your bumper if you try to slow down this conversation." O', That is Scrumdiddlyum-Viva-La-Apropriatious!

[@Crlarl]

While I enjoy the technical talks more, I think this is the most important talk you've given yet.

[@DeviantOllam]

Thank you. :-)

[@Crlarl]

@@DeviantOllam Thank you.

[@johncage5368]

Great talk!

[@largol33t1]

11:20 - Dang people just dig the hole deeper when they get in trouble with the law. That's why the FIRST thing your lawyer always always always always always always says is "Do not say even one word until I get there!" And yet, that gap between your being put in the interrogation room your lawyer's arrival can determine whether you go home that night or sleep in a cell...

[@Parker8752]

That, and anything you say to the cops that incriminates you they can testify to; anything you say that clears you is hearsay and inadmissible.

[@silasmarner7586]

A good friend of mine, Patrick Harrington, used to work on trains doing catering (and security - go figure). He told me that he'd have a drunken/unruly customer, and when the train pulled into the next station, he'd say, "Hey, no problem, let's definitely talk about this. Let's step off the step and get some air, man. Whereby the offender would step off the train, Patrick would close the door, and say, "bye!" and pull away. The train was zipping along before the shocked ex-passenger even had a second to react.

[@LetsTryVlogging365]

this guy is the best 😊 I wish the victim servicing was a bigger part of police training especially the part about leaving personal feelings behind and just listening to the person who is the victim.

[@Zanthum]

Damn if I knew Deviant was coming to Central Florida beforehand I would have tried to attend

[@montagistreel]

Wow, Full sail is a real, physical place?

[@dr420nrg]

Did u really fly-in on an ultralight?

[@macnutz4206]

I wish you could test the 'security' at the Doral golf resort.

[@laospeedwagon3023]

Macnutz420 Why?

[@addisomnia]

@@laospeedwagon3023 Googled it, owned by Trump. Probably a sh!thole.

[@you900001]

I Love your insights, common sense for you isn't common sense to others.

[@nvlockworkx5320]

Love it

[@silasmarner7586]

How do you descalate with people who lack FTA?

[@WickdPerfekT]

Chris Voss?

[@grahamelliott9506]

the military rights thing sure has context in late 2020

[@AalbertTorsius]

Your best talk so far.

[@lobrundell4264]

As a teacher I'm def gonna look into some of these teqniques!

[@johnfrancisdoe1563]

Unfortunately some extremely widely adopted CoC documents are written and designed to maximize escalation and destroy whatever community gets fooled into adopting them verbatim. Not because the purported goals are wrong, but because the rules cause too much random or arbitrary enforcement, like a 0.0000001% alcohol limit.

[@nibblrrr7124]

Just so I understand the alcohol one: Was there a zero-tolerance rule in the CoC? Or did staff interpret some other rule as implying that any amount of alcohol warrants being reprimanded/thrown out? (And then only enforced it selectively?) I haven't seen a CoC yet that mentions anything about intoxication. At least DEFCON, C3, Bsides, or even kawaiicon don't. I'm not a teetotaler & don't like being patronized just as much as the next hacker, but I guess I can picture situations where a con decides that codifying a no-alcohol-allowed rule is better than not, and a limit of 0 would be preferrable to "0.5‰BAC, and we have to deploy breathalyzers to check" or "_too_ drunk, as decided by staff's gut feeling/'common sense'" (which I'd call arbitrary).

[@nibblrrr7124]

More generally, the CoCs I like focus on stuff like having designated reporting mechanisms so random staff isn't overwhelmed with situations they're not trained to deal with ; making basic goals like "everyone should be able to feel safe" explicit _and_ fleshing out what this means in practice, including some explicit "don't"s ; and what happens when you break those rules. Having clear rules and e.g. saying "you get one warning, then you get thrown out" _up front_ to get everybody on the same page seems much more conduicive to deescalation _in the moment,_ then leaving that up for debate.

[@Meefer]

It's important that conventions routinely review and update their codes of conduct, and do their best to make them positive documents. It's a lot of work to be sure, and having the document is only one side of things. But I'd much rather a convention have a subpar code of conduct than none. It shows a step forward, a concern for attendees.

[@valqueenofValhalla]

Did she call him Olaf

[@MarvinCZ]

That's how Ollam is pronounced.

[@DeviantOllam]

@@MarvinCZ exactly. 👍

[@junkman8742]

Shared to Active Self Protection channel

[@DeviantOllam]

John is a cool dude... where or how was this shared to his channel?

[@junkman8742]

In a email. I don't know him. Just thought the first half meshed with his lessons

[@ArmadilloGodzilla]

Mental aikido requires mental agility and not everyone has that.

[@Parker8752]

Then they have no business doing security work. If you cannot de-escalate stressful situations, then security work (including police work) is not for you and you should find a different profession.

[@silasmarner7586]

The only thing is, this kinda ass kissing I can pick up in about 20 microseconds. I just say, "Cut the bullshit and get me the president!"

[@roberthansen4673]

Olaf?

[@andrewferguson6901]

en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/ollam apparently its a gaelic word, i learned something today

[@hewhoadds]

40:20 “my friend works at offsec” 😆ye ok buddy i’m sure that’s tru

[@otxoawolf9054]

It got pretty cringy when he started virtue signalling, using terms lie priviledge, trans, and cisgendered. A so called noncomformist brown nosing the libs probably isn't. His stuff is usually good as is this but that says a lot about the man himself.

[@BallstinkBaron]

Oxtoa Wolf In a society where queerness and lgbt discourse is suppressed, understanding these concepts and incorporating them into your worldview is nonconformist by definition. The fact that you’re so upset about this change only supports this

[@darerun1051]

@@otxoawolf9054 exactly. This shit is getting annoying. Deviant isn't the only one who has said shit like this too.

[@shinobudev]

Agreed. Was very surprised it was coming from Ollam. It had nothing to do with the conversation. Even sounded like he was "cheering" for the normalization of DEFCON. Disappointing.

[@p_serdiuk]

@@BallstinkBaron Where, exactly, it is being suppressed?

[@BallstinkBaron]

@@p_serdiuk KZbin through demonetization, for one. Societies where you can be literally imprisoned or killed by your neighbor or Gov't is another example.

[@realfnneato3111]

what's with the stupid inflammatory language? just serves to turn people away Deviant

[@mikuhatsunegoshujin]

This. It seems like he was acting like a incident provoker by the end of the talk.

[@SolarScion]

What turns away one, endears you to another. It was needlessly one-sided. While technical fields/IT are rife with the types that he makes a point to lambaste several times by name, and their cloistered behavior is a serious problem, he was entirely one-sided about it, and came off as virtue signalling for points really hard. It's like he just discovered gender theory this year, though I'm sure part of it is that he deals with it a lot. It seemed rather contrary to the spirit of "you must empathize in order to resolve", which is vital advice in social interaction of all kinds.

[@Morgan_Sandoval]

@@SolarScion That's a very eloquent and deeply obfuscated way of whining he didn't call out the SJWs.

[@onyxtay7246]

@@SolarScion I despise the misuse of the term "virtue signaling." What reason do you have to believe that Deviant doesn't hold the values he speaks about in this talk? Because virtue signaling isn't just "open displays of virtue," it's feigning virtue that you don't have.

[@rgreenhagen]

Goes and takes a free online course on OVC's website, 2 days later. "I am an expert".

[@rgreenhagen]

Also, this whole talk seems like just a way to get back at one person. Everything he is preaching about in this talk, and at the end it all goes down the toilet, because everything he just talked about not to do, he did.

[@LoveableEccentricity]

I got the same vibe, very aggressive

[@danatronics9039]

Omg Deviant said trans rights :D

[@Blaculo]

Deviant has been brainwashed by the Dept of Social Justice. So edgy.

[@TOASTEngineer]

Deviant is the kind of person SJWs are trying and failing to pretend to be. I mean, the guy obviously has some prejudices, and some of the things he believes in, like the whole "code of conduct" thing, have turned out to be really bad ideas, but the thing SJWs do that makes them so terrible is that they take good ideas and rules, or ones that at least seemed good in the early 90's, and take them to absurd extremes to look cool in front of their friends. That doesn't mean those rules or ideas are bad just because some psycho took them to 11 and beyond.

[@mikuhatsunegoshujin]

@@TOASTEngineer Maybe those rules are bad because of the cancel culture that is drawn from them. They probably need to be heavily revised.

[@nibblrrr7124]

​@@TOASTEngineer What do you mean by "CoCs turned out to be bad ideas"? When? Like, the very concept of having more rules than "don't break the law" and "try to be nice"? Anything that explicitly mentions sexual harrassment, pronouns, or underrepresented groups? I'd genuinely like to understand what negative outcomes you're referring to.

[@therealjordanvo]

Deviant Olaf? LOL

[@Mr_Wrar]

mobile.twitter.com/Fuitad/status/1118296700622340096

[@DeviantOllam]

Heh, why LOL? That's how my name is pronounced.

[@therealjordanvo]

@@DeviantOllam I did not know that! I thought the lady made a mistake.

[@morgulbrut]

@@DeviantOllam friggin Celtic languages ;)

[@Crushonius]

sorry dev i love you brother but when i hear privilege i tune out and when you mention cis hat white guys or whatever and mention diversity your talk totally falls apart you went full on sjw and started throwing out insults at people without even trying to understand their pov negating everything you said before about deescalating and basically your whole talk . I am not saying I condone their behavior but you throwing insults at them just makes you look weak and a bit childish. Now I dont think thats really you but in that moment you slipped up and let your emotions get the best of you . Here is what I think about privilege and diversity the only truly privileged people in this day and age are the filthy rich and politicians it has nothing to do with skin color or gender unless we are talking affirmative action which is a form of privilege that everyone should despise because it is inherently and by own definition racist and or sexist . now hear me out affirmative action is basically saying you are not good enough to make it on based on merit because you are a woman or black or whatever so we lower the standards to help you out ... however you look at it , it is super degrading . and secondly the only diversity i give a shit about is diversity of thought . just because a group of people looks diverse does not equally mean they have diversity of thought . just because a group of people look the same IT DOES NOT mean they all think the same . Most people talking about diversity are judging a book by its cover and so do you in this talk . Now I get it most of us are guilty of prejudice in one form or another its basic human nature but maybe you should rewatch this talk and refine it before you give it again because you contradict yourself quite a lot . I know this has a ton of mistakes in it but i do my best english is my fourth language after all and i know it seems like i am trying to bash you but thats not it this is meant to be constructive criticism . I might seem harsh or rude at times but I am just being honest about what i think without a filter . I still enjoy your work and I am not one of those people who hate someone just because they disagree on something . Have a good one Dev hope you come to germany this year . Crusho

[@DeviantOllam]

That's a LOT of typing for someone who's not saying anything

[@onyxtay7246]

I love how people who talk about "diversity of thought" immediately dismiss thoughts they disagree with. Deviant literally explained how people who have experienced different things will look at situations differently. Your experiences and preconceived notions shape how you perceive the world and respond to it, that's not a crazy concept. Dude literally explained how valuing people's different experiences results in diversity of thought, and you ignored it because he used words you don't like.

[@jeice13]

From what ive seen the non retarded people who question conduct enforcement in communities that should be covered by the law seem to be objecting to the lower standard of proof and labeling someone a criminal without following proper channels. Sure be supportive to the complainant but as soon as you start punishing the accused you are labeling them a criminal

[@DeviantOllam]

Except, no. Being labeled a "criminal" and facing the penalties that "criminals" face means you have been adjudicated in a court of law. unless I'm grossly mistaken, no conference anywhere has powers of arrest or the power to incarcerate someone or disenfranchise someone or fine them monetarily and seize their assets.

[@jeice13]

@@DeviantOllam the principle of innocent until proven guilty isnt just about being punished by a group legally designated as the government of the land it is about not penalising those who arent shown to deserve it. Sure its common to accept violations of this to some extent on a scale of 1 to 1 interaction that dont violate the law but once it reaches the point of community shunning or anything else with enforcement from those not directly involved it becomes more objectionable

[@jeice13]

@@DeviantOllam kind of like how the ideal of free speech is still violated if the person physically stopping you is not a police officer