The sim card conundrum at the Chess Olympiad 2024 | ft. Fair play team

Two incidents have happened at the Chess Olympiad 2024, where players after the game have been found with sim cards. The first one was an Egyptian player in his game against Lebanon and the other was an Argentinian player in his game against Bolivia. Both the cases had a very different trajectory. And in this interview with the Fairplay officers Bojana Bejatovic and Andie Howie we get to understand these cases better.
Video: ChessBase India
#Chess #ChessBaseIndia #Fairplay
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[@blahblahuma]

Great interview. Glad they are both on the same page in making sure the rules are clear and standardized. Fair play to all involved.

[@pablomtube]

The main point is that the rule is poorly written. If a player or a team reads that electronic devices are forbidden, you cannot expect them to understand that sim cards can be considered devices, since they are not. It's very common when you go abroad to change the sim card in your phone (I actually did it when I went to Hungary) and keep the other one with you, which you will need when you go back to your country. A player is not violating the rules if the rules are written in a way that they can't be properly understood

[@jamesrawlins735]

I believe there are lockers for players to store their electronic devices on site. The solution is for the players to place the sim card with their phone in the locker.

[@ankittan25]

I think the rule is clear enough but the staff doesn't understand it and can't execute the rule correctly. A SIM card cannot be used to cheat in a game.

[@brian_chalega]

They said in the video that in the technical meeting it was explicitly mentioned that sim cards are forbidden, so the players can't argue that they didn't know. Technical meetings right before a tournament start, where the arbiters remind people of the rules, is a common thing even in amateur tournaments.

[@pablomtube]

@@brian_chalega She never says that the sim card was explicitely mentioned, and she does say that the list of forbidden items cannot be very detailed, implying that the sim card actually had not been mentioned

[@brian_chalega]

@@pablomtube 3:48 "...it's not cheating, but bringing in forbidden itens, which according to the regulations and the technical meeting, it was mentioned that they are forbidden". With the "it was mentioned that they are forbidden" I understand (and the interest in SIM cards seems to point to that) that she meant that sim cards were mentioned in the technical meeting at least. But yeah, perhaps the ChessBase people could make it 100% clear, most probably they were there, and if not, it's easy to ask people. If it was not mentioned at all, I think it was indeed an oversight and would make sense for the players to argue they didn't now (although the arbiters pov is equally understandable, since it's also clearly an electronic). The part about it not being able to make it fully detailed was more about the regulations (where indeed they aren't explicitly mentioned). It seems indeed counterprodutive to make an extensive list, since there's thousands of electronics devices and new ones coming up every other day. But after that, I'm sure they'll mention sim cards among the other examples of forbidden itens if they want that ruling to stay.

[@thomasdalton1508]

I agree with the appeals committee. A SIM card is not a device and cannot be used for cheating without a device to put it in and that device would be covered by the rules. This isn't a situation where you can combine several innocuous components together to make a cheating device - you would need something that is clearly forbidden, so there is no need to ban the innocuous components. You don't need a SIM card to cheat, anyway. Any device you can put a SIM card in is perfectly capable of running a chess engine locally. You don't need to communicate externally if you have a phone on you.

[@dublintvcontent2023]

Agree, Scot guy is a bit of a moron. worst sort of know it all, understand little power mad fanatic.

[@balajiv8085]

Sagar and team is doing great coverage of the games and around the games. Perfect mix of chess fans, pro players and great at the coverage. Top content.

[@RaimundKlein]

One can make a case for a SIM card that is still wrapped in its original packaging to be no issue. But even then players should rather just declare this at the entrance and have it stored securely. There's really no reason for them to have it on themselves while in the playing hall.

[@Randomthings1210]

Yo first controversy… Fair play team vs Appeals committee

[@Crypto-mi1hk]

Kramnik is just using the psychological tricks. In the middle of the match to break the flow of indian player. He should be banned from even entering into the hall. All those devices go through security check already. Totally unnecessary.

[@ChintanCG]

What stops the Egyptian team from appealing now? Is there a time window

[@brainless6370]

+1 same question

[@pks-ud7fe]

They should be given special consideration, even if the time window has lapsed for making an appeal.

[@BrajeshKumar-hm9sw]

Appeal committee guy was not happy with her for sure. Which is okay. I find it quite funny when for her mistake she start giving reasons like Water in the river, sixteen people only. Grow up!! This is olympiad, you had 2 year to prepare for it.

[@lauterunvollkommenheit4344]

What happens if a player brings a forbidden fruit from the Tree of Knowledge to the game? It'd be an unfair advantage for sure.

[@rohan1864]

You people are right the sim card on it's own is not a device. On the other hand, it is indeed an essential part of a device. I think the guy's point is that if they find a part of a device that could be used for cheating, it is enough reason for them to be concerned - because maybe there were also OTHER parts of that device hidden somewhere and they just didn't find them. Still, if sim card is not a device and the rule applies to devices, the player should not have got penalized.

[@joydeb3885]

Either you should define a electronic/un-necessary device or maintain a extensive list. You should not vouguely defined as something retroactively as un-necessary. Even a pacemaker can probably be used to cheat. If you can't maintain a list of forbidden, why not maintain a list of allowed. That's simpler.

[@eljanrimsa5843]

Stay strong. We can discuss about every other part, but the SIM card is the pat that does the communication. This needs to be kept out.

[@thebiglebrowski3695]

So can bluetooth and even just a phone connected to the internet. No sim car means nothing. It should be traditional video cameras by FIDE personnel only.

[@MysticOnMission]

Why not check them thoroughly while entering , it clearly shows poor management on their part.

[@adityachk2002]

It is very sad to see 2 different decisions in force. Either make both loose or both win, don't do partiality, appeals is not right way to go

[@deeputhomas9887]

So the fair play team and the appeals committee is not in sync with each other. Well done FIDE!!! If the sim card is not considered an electronic device, then its not fair to Egypt. That game result should be reversed.

[@JimWebster-g6i]

A SIM card is the critical COMPONENT in your phone that allows you to connect to a carrier network to make calls, send text messages, and more. SIM stands for Subscriber Identity Module. And as its name suggests, carriers use SIM cards to identify you and your activity on their network. It has no power source and cannot operate in isolation. It also requires an interconnection medium between the battery and the SIM card component.

[@TyrannosaurusCHEX]

They could plug it into an empty phone planted somewhere, connect to an engine and then withdraw the card - the phone will be blank so even if it is found by arbiters it could not be traced back to the player. That's why you don't allow SIM cards.

[@thebiglebrowski3695]

Yeah ... and there are plenty of non-network forms of communication. Bluetooth, internet ...

[@ganesankrishnamurthy8658]

Cheating is different from what's forbidden to take inside. There are many grey areas. Knowledge and rules are probably accumulation of experience.

[@jodya.vonwahl2413]

I agree with the gentleman because though a divice may not have been found on the peraon it doesn't mean a divorce could not have been hidden somewhere else. If SIM cards are on the list of forbidden items then it should be a cut and dry case across the board. For the appeal committee to rule against them contradictes their own rules and proves that their is a lack of internal communication as to how games should be governed. Some may think a SIM card outside a device is harmless but it can introduce many potential problems. Its totally unnecessary for a player to have it on them so i believe its a reasonable restriction.

[@pablomtube]

But that's precisely the problem. From what I read, sim cards are not explicitely listed as a forbidden item. The rule only talks about devices, which sim cards are not. The first rule should be to write the rules properly

[@harshalkulat7997]

Sim cards are not listed on the list of forbidden items. So it was unfair to the egyptian player.

[@jodya.vonwahl2413]

"4. 11. 3. During a playing session, the players and the captains are forbidden to have any electronic device not specifically approved by the Chief Arbiter in the playing venue. In case of this rule violation by a player, he/she loses the current game. In case of this rule violation by a captain, he shall not be allowed to the playing venue until the end of the Chess Olympiad." It is unrealistic and unreasonable to expect an exhaustive list of forbidden items because that is how technical loop holes are created. The only thing I can think off the top of my head to add that could make it a bit more sold it is... "electronic devices or their component parts and accessories" or "electric devices, in part or whole, and their ancillary components or accessories" But even then by basic definition a SIM card is an electronic device. Maybe we don't call it that in casual nontechnical conversation but that doesn't mean it isn't.

[@pablomtube]

@@jodya.vonwahl2413 I think a sim card is not an electronic device by any means of what can be reasonably called a device, that is, something that can work on itself. The addition you suggest "or their component parts and accesories" is perfectly reasonable and would be a great improvement to the current wording

[@pablomtube]

@@lazylitan I know, that's my point. It's not a device, just a component or part, so not covered by the rules in the current wording

[@jaypraxxz7375]

In this case, appeals committee are correct. These guys are in the wrong. Got to feel for the team that didn't appeal and had results impacted. Also interviewer should have asked who actually set the rules? Part of the blame lies with them as well for not being clear with rules.

[@InfoTeaser]

Sure a sim in a wallet can also highjack aeroplanes

[@Koyoshinkai]

so if you stay quite & not say something, you will be punished

[@killakame-3434]

How do you check each and every players between cheeks?

[@harshalkulat7997]

They check after the games

[@eljanrimsa5843]

They go through a scanner like at the airport.

[@killakame-3434]

@@eljanrimsa5843 Airport body scanners do not see what is in your rectum.. meaning this scanner being a exact copy doesn't help. *You could also put it in a xray absorbent bag like those used to protect photographic film.* The scanner won't see that electronic device.. the signal will be turned off .. because of that film then you go to washroom and remove the film .. and return back to your seat. And you don't even need to replace that film back as they don't check you as you leave the premises. This is only if their scanners could scan inside cheeks... Meaning you don't even need to do all that. Its very easy to cheat its not even funny :/

[@dublintvcontent2023]

STORMS IN TEA CUPS

[@IncognitoSahil]

4:50 what a absurd point, "something you can pair it with" that "it" would be electronic device, not a simple sim. You couldn't find that device, then no point of disqualification

[@PushkarChintaluri]

Not every device looks like a phone

[@jgreen802]

​​@@PushkarChintaluriif you're going to sneak in a device, why wouldn't you just leave the SIM card in it? It makes no sense to smuggle them in separately and then try to put the SIM card in after the fact.

[@CA-oe1ok]

Its absurd to carry a sim card for no reason. Just keep it away with all your other belongings. Its possible to make a vibrating receiver that looks like a sim card. The appeals committee made a mistake here for sure.

[@whocares2277]

They are both electronic devices. Following the same logic, the thing you pair it with on its own cannot be used to cheat. So you should be allowed to carry that, too?

[@jgreen802]

@@whocares2277 that's not true at all. You can absolutely cheat with a phone or electronic device that doesn't contain a SIM card. A SIM card is only required for calls, text, and Internet. A chess engine will run perfectly fine without one.

[@killermonk47]

Something that fifa should learn from. Get the referees to explain their decision to the viewers instead of asking coaches and players

[@ChintanCG]

We have phones that work without physical sim (esim).. soon we might have sims that work without phone

[@jacobwilbers9852]

Alot of people that travel will have sim cards for use in a foreign country you put it in wallet to not loose it then forget it even exists after trip.

[@harshalkulat7997]

These guys are just clowns. If you can't draft the rules properly and blame it on player at the world stage. It's a shame.

[@parvpatel8349]

Kramnik has just got old man

[@sameekshmshetty8018]

Who is interviewing?

[@vibhor5015]

Is it just sagar and the sound just went bad?

[@_wakanda_forever]

​No, it's other chessbase employee@@vibhor5015

[@binamrashrestha3752]

Rishi dhamala

[@JG-qy6fe]

Why dont they make a poster ( like u get in airport Security screening) showing whats allowed and whats not in clear pictures 😂😊 Btw soon sim cards may be inserted in to someones body and an MRI scan may be needed before u go in to a chess olympic match😊

[@theinvisibleman-e8v]

Why India team recording with phones?

[@devanshkhandelwal7749]

"Cameras can't record for 6 hours, and phones are less expensive in India compared to the quality they provide."

[@Astrashastra]

India team wasn't recording. People/journalists from Chessbase india youtube channel were.

[@yuan813j]

hmm, they feel that a sim card alone can do wonders where by we are not living in a magical world. I wonder how does this cause cheating?

[@brainless6370]

From my understanding, a device not found with player doesn't mean it can't be hidden. Of course a sim card alone can't do wonders but, it paired with a hidden device can. Please note that I'm not implying that if a sim card is found then a device is for sure hidden somewhere but it could be, so restricting it makes sense.

[@yuan813j]

Out of curiosity, what is the hidden device that could cause cheating with a SIM card?

[@brainless6370]

@@yuan813j a mobile phone?

[@withrahul]

This video didn’t age well I guess. Hihih.

[@jgreen802]

A SIM card is useless without an electronic device. The appeals team is correct here. If you want to ban SIM cards then the rules must say that, you cant just say "forbidden items" and expect 2000 players from all over the world to magically know what is forbidden without making a list.

[@msdadsfsx]

please share proofs for that

[@kab9791]

ai robot voice

[@iamyashraj]

What about phones with e Sim card. Like iphone and some other devices has this hardware feature. And many people inside the venue can be seen using the iphones

[@junksails814]

Rules are rules. iPhones cannot be used. Period

[@chelibile]

These guys seem incompetent

[@YouTuberJames92610]

Indian journos are also using their phone to live transfer the game in "higher quality" .. then again nobody but Kramnik pointed this out ... rules are very dodgy and poorly implemented, complete chaos, doesn't look like olympiad a rather a regional tournament with all the people walking around and the whole process just looks so unprofessionally organized.

[@Alone-h6o]

kramnik himself is a cheater lol and yeahh complaining after 8 rounds is really absurd also if that was the case all players would have been having a 100 accuracy wining every game i don't even know how this makes sense 100 of cameras r there i don't think top players would cheat with having so many cameras focused on them 😂😂

[@Aman-lu3sf]

@KZbinr James92610 Small correction: the games were not live-streamed, and the phones were used solely to record. The footage was then used later to create explanatory videos. Additionally, the phones were thoroughly checked by the fair play team beforehand. These recording devices were not only placed on Indian boards but also on various other boards that were not part of the Indian team.