The Skeptics Have No Clothes: David Lorimer

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In this interview with SAND co-founder Zaya Benazzo at SAND19 Italy, David Lorimer talks about the limitations of applying a mechanistic model to a living organism like the human being. He asks whether the brain produces or transduces consciousness. He covers the psycho-political phenomenon of scientific dogma, the experimenter effect, the work of Rupert Sheldrake, the implications of the theory of evolution, the place of A.I., the complexity of human emotions, the power of Love, and more.
David Lorimer, MA, PGCE, FRSA is a writer, lecturer and editor who is a Founder of Character Education Scotland, Program Director of the Scientific and Medical Network and a former President of the Wrekin Trust and the Swedenborg Society. Originally a merchant banker then a teacher of philosophy and modern languages at Winchester College, he is the author and editor of over a dozen books, most recently The Protein Crunch (with Jason Drew) and A New Renaissance (edited with Oliver Robinson). He has edited three books about Beinsa Douno: Prophet for our Times (1991, 2015), The Circle of Sacred Dance, and Gems of Love, which is a translation of his prayers and formulas into English. His book on the ideas and work of the Prince of Wales-Radical Prince-has been translated into Dutch, Spanish and French. He is the originator of the Inspiring Purpose Values Poster Programs, which have reached over 300,000 young people.
For more information see www.inspiringpurpose.org.uk and his personal website: www.davidlorimer.co.uk
Science and Nonduality is a community inspired by timeless wisdom, informed by cutting-edge science, and grounded in direct experience. We come together in an open-hearted exploration while celebrating our humanity.

[@Paakku97]

Skeptics should be skeptical of their own skepticism

[@nocosa]

Yes, some so called skeptic people just believe blindly in materialism. Not realising it's just another theory after all. But I don't care too much for me they are just like 2D beings in a 3D world.

[@david8157]

They dont see the need to be because they 'know' they are right. That is the reality underlying skeptical scientism; it is a dogmatic belief system like Christianity or any other religion.

[@kj_H65f]

@@nocosa scientists don't "believe" in materialism, they accept that the universe appears to be entirety materialistic unless one can show the existence of something non material. Which hasn't happened to scientific rigor. Its not the fault of science that magic can't be proven true, it's a problem with magic that it can't provide incontrovertible evidence of its existence.

[@normaodenthal8009]

A wonderful talk! David, along with Rupert Sheldrake and Iain McGilchrist may well be the triumvirate of leading edge thinkers who have broken the shackles of an unquestioned materialism. Brave souls who dare to question!

[@clowdy922]

Yes!!!

[@joebrennan.4389]

Why do you leave Deepak out...?

[@michaelmcclure3383]

@@joebrennan.4389 not sure Deepak is a scientist as such is he? He's what, an endocrinologist?

[@joebrennan.4389]

@@michaelmcclure3383 Nice try my friend, but I'm too tired to get into an argument with you. .👍

[@lewisrain]

Bernardo Kastrup! :)

[@darren.davies3957]

Beautiful interviewer, beautiful message, have a great day!!!!

[@clowdy922]

Amazing talk! Love that perspective . Thank you for sharing this

[@professormaxtrinity]

I have listed and described 360 "experiential senses" and I only play with the fun ones. Experiential senses are our non-physical senses. For example; sense of humor, sense of curiosity, sense of home, sense of Love. You get the picture. We also have a sense of doom, a sense of discouragement, a sense of deflation and a sense of desperation. Here's the trippy part, I did not include any of the painful experiential senses on my list and I still came up with 360 and more have been added. I compiled the yummy sense list to use as daily invocations. I pick a sense at random, read it's description as an invocation and then focus on that sense throughout the day. I've done the full 360 5 times now and going on my 6th round . Among the benefits are, noticeable expansion of expressive reach, increased capacity to un-stick the focus from harmful orientations and an increase in direct felt experiences of goodness. The experiential realm is subtle and indeed requires refined ability to shift, expand and re-scale our personal focus of attention. I challenge you to sit down with a notepad and write the numbers 1-360 and then begin listing your experiential senses and remember to keep it yummy so you can use it as a daily invocation list. No sense of frustration or rejection allowed. I've given the examples of humor, curiosity, home and Love. I'll throw out another 6 to make it 10, adventure, emergence, anticipation, engagement, dis-engagement, Hope. There, only 350 more to go. These are not senses you have to create or work at. You simply, actively witness, actively notice that, these are senses we all have and use every single day. Every day is full of miracles when you take the time to really notice the miraculous nature of life. The miraculous itself is a parfait of sensory qualities. The sense of miraculous phenomena is a parfait of the senses of awe, amazement, incredulity, impossibility, surprise, mystification and transformation to name a few. Hmmm... am I making this too easy? Do it. Make the list, describe each unique and beautiful sense as if they were flavors of being and then start focusing on those senses intentionally (sense of intentionality) to enrich your personal, direct experience with life. Do it! And good sensing to you. Cheers! (sense of celebration) ;)

[@professormaxtrinity]

Lol, had to share. See, I have printed each sense with it's accompanying invocation onto a tiny scroll. So, each day I pull a scroll from one jar and put it into a separate jar after reading it. That way, I get a new sense every day and it's imbued with an oracle like quality. My sense for today is, sense of Goodness. The invocation is below: 312.) Goodness - our natural and easy flowing sense of life enhancement. When life is enhanced in beneficial and beautiful ways, we are filled with our natural sense of goodness. Goodness correlates with all the senses that give life to our most enjoyable and inspiring experiences. Feel the goodness all around you, feel the goodness of You.

[@paztururututu4864]

:) Thank you for the interview, brother and sister!! :) Namaste

[@luisdesansimon6017]

Love the wisdom and perspective, the perspective he shares is one we need about the reality of humanity. In my experience as he says we are love and light . At the same time I disliked very much the generalization on Chinese culture as the one creating control over population. That’s a very general assumption. Which culture with power and economy to do so, unfortunately, is not at least having members of their society trying to have control over others? Unfortunately this has happened for millennia. I’m not saying this to justify but to be aware of the dichotomy in this bias, an important one in my opinion, using a very general speech that is around, which sets the Chinese as the bad ones and “others” as the good ones. This guy is from the UK, for hundreds of years UK has been controlling other cultures, in a general way and with many concrete ways to do so. It didn’t do that with AI because it hadn’t been created jet. The message he delivers is a beautiful one and a very real one. But How we deliver a message creates the message itself. The good ones and the bad ones commentaries implicitly says ones are with the light and others don’t and that’s the story of our histories, of our wars.

[@countryrds1]

This message challenges the existing order, in fact in challenges the entire basis of our reality as presented by the establishment because if material reality is the result of conscience then we, as high level conscience entities, have the ability to literally change material reality - which is what we are doing only in a negative manner. The ultimate choice is just that - knowing what is positive and making that choice. In other words, we have literally decided to be destroyers and not creators. "We are love and life", then let's make that choice friends.

[@sebastianverney7851]

another good man

[@javasroe6541]

Good title :)

[@BigSausageTits]

wake up and be.the rest will sort itself out.

[@thijsjong]

I would like to believe all of that. Telepathy and stuff like that. Show me the mechanics. Show me. Where is ''The telescope to see the moons of Jupiter''. You are just exchanging the brain as the seat of consciousness with what? This is a discussion without bounderies or definitions. If you want to go that route talking about this you might as well do away with language and grunt at eachother. For me consciousness is everything. Thought, emotions and actions are being withnessed. There is cognitive consciousness wich is the brain. And there is universal consciousness that is just there and does nothing of the processesing as it is eternal and does not change. It is just that at certain points the thought/brain realises the universal consciouness exists and feels connected to that. Like you realise you have been looking in the mirror all your life. The mirror did nothing it waits till you notice. Until you slip back to ego. What happens 99,9999999999999% of the times.

[@yingyang1008]

There's no evidence that the seat of consciousness lies in the brain

[@thijsjong]

@@yingyang1008 That is not what I am saying. It is the seat of thought, emotion and sensation of the indidual.

[@Eman_Puedama]

I agree of what he says, but I wish all these esoteric types didn't seem to uncritically accept the idea of catastrophic, man-made, and CO2-driven global warming. Perhaps their acceptance isn't uncritical, but it seems to me that they're just buying the idea as a package because it fits nicely with their holistic ideas. The other thing is, that they seem a bit fuzzy about origins questions at times. Rupert Sheldrake is a prime offender here. On the one hand, he seems to propose a teleological aspect to evolution, but on the other, he poo poos 'creationism' - which is a very broad term that's often applied to quite general teleological arguments. This seems inconsistent to me, and likely grounded in cultural bias and snobbery.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

Well.. why dont they also accept that since consciousness is the substrate of all appearances, there isnt a world 'out there'.. and all that seems to occur happens by the will of the noumenal. If they fully accepted that, I dont see how they could be so irrationally driven by projected fears of 'extinction' doom and so on. Maybe then they could calmly do science..

[@Eman_Puedama]

@@michaelmcclure3383 That's a good point. Another contradiction is that they say there's no separation between humankind and nature, but then they also say that any tiny difference humans might make is likely to put nature completely out of balance.

[@michaelmcclure3383]

@@Eman_Puedama I wonder if "the experimenter effect" is rife in climate studies Haha And yes. Who is this doer who is effecting or not effecting the environment.. There can be only one. That's if there is oneness.. or only one reality. So no one to guilt trip... Also, to the question of control. What climate activists propose would rival any draconian measures China employs.. How very left brained.

[@Eman_Puedama]

@@michaelmcclure3383 I don't think they're being particularly inconsistent talking about the experimenter effect when it comes to psi. As for us being all one and all that.. well, I suppose when you're talking about metaphysics and very abstract concepts like consciousness it can be hard to use language consistently. I think their idealistic philosophy is basically right, but obviously consciousness is localised whether there's an underlying unity or not - because otherwise we wouldn't be here. I don't think they'd deny that. If there's one way they're going wrong I'd say it's that they don't allow for their right-brained biases... and they must think it's possible to be biased towards one brain hemisphere because they say the mainstream is biased towards the left one. So they probably just need to pass some of their ideas through the left side of their brains for a few more cycles.

[@CaptainPhilosophical]

Your comment assumes you know ALL "these esoteric types". Seems like some pre judging.

[@JoeFusion]

unsubscribe

[@mclarsen61]

Byebye👍🎈

[@rahulthakar8006]

@joe Haha caught u nacked...