The Sonic 3 Music In Sonic Origins is Different (Thanks to Michael Jackson)

Thanks in part to Michael Jackson-related reasons, which I go over in this video, Sonic 3's music is different in Sonic Origins than in the original Genesis release. Also, is it just me, or have Sonic fans seemed really unhappy lately?
See my Sonic 3 video from last year here: • Sonic 3 & Knuckles' We...
I also did a completely unrelated Sonic 3 video earlier this year as well: • The Mysterious Somehow...
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Music From:
James Wong (Via OCRemix)
'Popsicle'
• Sonic the Hedgehog 3 R...
UV Sir J (Via OCRemix)
'stands like a statue, becomes part of the machine'
• OC ReMix #2732: Kid Ch...
Additional Music from Sonic the Hedgehog 3 (Prototype and Release).
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"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use."
Thank you for watching!

[@StuffWePlay]

I can't remember the last time I knocked out an entire video in the span of a few hours. Most of them lately have taken a week of free time at a minimum haha. Anyways, if you enjoyed this short Sonic video then maybe check out this Sonic documentary I released last summer: kzbin.info/www/bejne/kGmyh2ewbZyCZs0&t

[@AWMonopolyMan]

Sorry buddy, there was still rereleases just before and after that time in 2009, 2010 and 2011 (with the XBLA Backbone port of Sonic 3 occurring just before then, Sonic and Knuckles occurring after then, Sonic Classic Collection on DS also happening after and the last official original port of the 2 games, was the Steam version in 2011 prior to its delisting in 2022)

[@AWMonopolyMan]

Its his sound team that did most of the work, especially Brad Buxor with The Jetzon’s Hard Times being used for Ice Cap Zone, in fact, in 2012, Bobby Brooks and Cirocco Jones (2 members of MJ’s sound team) threatened Sega with a lawsuit which is why S3&K has been so MIA for all these years until this year.

[@AWMonopolyMan]

One last thing, there was Sonic’s Ultimate Genesis Collection in February 2009, that included Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles, with 0 way to play any of the Lock-on versions

[@spaceaustrailia5895]

@@secoTheSonicFan This is because anyone can upload a KZbin video. There are no standards. Sonic 3's music composers have all kinds of problems with Sega regarding usage of their music and Sega's refusal to pay them. The only thing this clown says is Michael Jackson.

[@Zaphod-ef9yz]

@@AWMonopolyMan That same title has a trivia section that said Michael Jackson was not involved which even then was laughably wrong. People make some massive conclusions about this music issue. Its an issue of course but I think its more than the "did he, didn't he..?" back and fourth we keep hearing. On specifically Ice Cap, what gave BB the right to use this track? Do we know for sure that it will be replaced because I don't think the Jetzons really care given they released it as a vinyl in "sonic blue" in a sleeve that is a screengrab of Ice Cap Zone..

[@clanc5340]

I don't doubt some die hard fans will find a way to mod the original music into the game. Edit: In less than a day, the die hards have modded the music back into the game. Absolutely committed.

[@agata6337]

i bet it will be possible in like 2 days max after its release

[@carn9507]

onto PC version I guess. Console version probably a bit trickier.

[@maximusaralieous1728]

Well, Michaels been gone a long time, can't blame him for Origins anymore. However I can blame Sega for not getting those tracks into the game.

[@GodWarsX]

I sure as hell blame Sega as well

[@catthatlooksatyoufunny7377]

I'm sure there was a lot of legal paperwork to be done behind scenes in order for some of those songs to be implemented in the game, specially the ending credits song, but i don't get why Ice Cap or Launch Base Zone original songs weren't implement since i don't think there's any MJ songs that resemble the original tracks of those two zones Things aren't always so simple but it's still very disappointing

[@maximusaralieous1728]

@@catthatlooksatyoufunny7377 probably, but they could have remixed then, rebuilt songs from the ground up to hit the same beats. The replacement tracks are wildly more clumsy and lifeless than even the other tracks in the game.

[@catthatlooksatyoufunny7377]

@@maximusaralieous1728 Take into account that even remixes could have brought trouble to Sega, and yeah while i agree that the prototype songs are wildly unpolished and just don't fit the tone of it, i don't think they would have risked it with a remix version of those tracks that were replaced, hence why they went with the prototype ones Although, they could have made totally new tracks different from the prototype ones, and maybe slightly inspired from original tracks, not something remixed from the originals, but inspired from them, maybe that could have been better

[@maximusaralieous1728]

@@catthatlooksatyoufunny7377 remaking tracks from the ground up would absolutely have been a better result, I have no doubt.

[@bedbug182]

MJ NEVER had the rights. He left the project with no credits whatsoever. My guess is that Brad Buxster who was MJ’s keyboard player and composer of those original tracks who WAS credited has something to do with it. The original Ice Cap stage music was actually a song by ‘The Jetsons’ and who was their keyboard player?…… Brad Buxster. 🧐

[@gertytk5528]

Sonic 3 definitely has a very MJ esque style all around, even if he was only involved in a few of the tracks. Sonic & Knuckles portion of the game seems to have a completely different style in music.

[@HamtaroSonicHedgehog]

3:02 regarding the confirmed facts about his involvement, there was also a pop fiction video that was released years before that also went into deep detail about his involvement with the game, and they got a confirmed source from an anonymous member who worked on the game confirming that Michael Jackson did indeed create some of the music for the game, and even confirmed Carnival Night Zone as one of the tunes he worked on. kzbin.info/www/bejne/e3fKn4iXZttrq6M Here's the video in question for anyone that's curious about it. That being said, while it's really unfortunate that the tunes that were done by MJ's team won't be returning for origins, I'm also fine with the prototype music being added on here. If it can help Sonic 3 get more re-releases in the future without having any license trouble, I'm all for that. Plus I actually do like the prototype music (especially the genesis versions that were shown from said beta.) and I am curious to how jun senoue will redo them for origins.

[@ZikOfficialYouTube]

@Green Hill Zone Maybe they thought the songs were too expensive to buy when they saw the price and decided to find a loophole by getting the non-Jackson songs. If they could've, they PROBABLY would've bought them. Besides, the prototype music is actually pretty good and it is kinda cool to see it return at the, cheap or not, cost of the Jackson songs. I got that sad feeling that they existed just for a prototype and stupid midi soundtrack pc game, then never seen the light of day again, simply thrown away. I am kinda glad they are returning here, despite replacing some of the Jackson tracks.

[@doubt2022]

one thing i know for sure is that prototype carnival bangs

[@martinmoore2468]

I like the original version with the uncredited Michael Jackson. MJ, forever and ever.

[@oshabot1646]

im gonna miss hard times in sonic 3

[@HyperActiv_TTV]

Hard times / Ice Cap Zone should still be in it as it was Brad Buxer’s band the Jetzons that have the rights to that one.

[@mechajay3358]

As a Sonic and MJ Fan, it's disappointing to hear they'll be going with a new soundtrack for Sonic 3.

[@Jesterman501]

I'm getting it on PC and hopefully someone mods the original music back in

[@Halfway-Stupid]

It's just 3 acts, ice cap, carnival night, and launch base, it's good as well when properly ported

[@joehobbs3277]

Yeah I mean a thoughts crossed my mind since it came out I was wondering if sega are basicly saying we aren’t using the MJ tracks due to what’s come out about him recently now true or not that’s just my thoughts

[@EpixAndroid]

@@joehobbs3277 I've done some deep dives into Michael Jackson's estate, and they'll do the bare minimum (which, is unfortunately unsurprising; if you look at all of the people who took advantage of MJ during his life, which include the people in charge of his estate). They probably gave Sega a headache over royalties.

[@joehobbs3277]

@@EpixAndroid which sega can afford

[@SaadNabil]

Why are they blaming Michael Jackson? This doesn't make sense at all! S3K already changed their music because it's copyright infringement for MJ Estate!

[@JaceAVinson]

You should watch Cybershell’s video called “The Best Way to Play Sonic 3” and in that video he gave great reasons one why Sonic 3 & Knuckles in its original separated form should still be playable.

[@jomaq9233]

I mean, the Origins version likely fixes most of the unique bugs, leaving Sonic 3 and Sonic and Knuckles standalone options… somewhat unnecessary

[@jomaq9233]

Stuff like the Big Arms fight and the unique Sonic 3 alone credits music (which would most definitely be replaced by the proto/PC version that doesn’t sound like “Stranger in Moscow”) could just be reimplemented in the full combined version in Origins anyway

[@evdestroy5304]

@Green Hill Zone There's no reason to not have it playable that way.

[@jasondillon2462]

I always knew Michael Jackson was involved from the first time I heard the hoo sound in the boss theme. To me it just made the game more awesome! I was a huge MJ fan growing up. I had all his albums. kids in school would make fun of me and call me a queer or homo for liking him. Especially after the whole allegations and accusations he faced in the 90s. I didn't often admit to being a fan because of the abuse i would get. Unfortunate that the tracks for sonic 3 have been removed for origins but hopefully the replacement tracks won't be awful or grating on the ears.

[@richardkovacs2006]

when people with abusive traits pretend the other is the abuser... your story is very telling about how people really are.

[@crashban4t.f.s.b783]

You mean thanks to Sega. Sega didn’t give MJ and the Jetzons credit for making the soundtrack so they took the music back.

[@HyperActiv_TTV]

That’s fine I’ll just play S3&K and listen to the original audio. 😁

[@the_dpad]

Ayyy, just stumbled across this one, this is a great video on the subject! It was definitely disappointing to find that the prototype music was indeed going to be the canon soundtrack going forward, but I'm certain it won't stop modders from adding the MJ-team tracks back in down the line. Cheers!

[@StuffWePlay]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@maximillianlylat1589]

Well this is upsetting but im just glad its getting a rerelease at all. My genesis hasnt been turning on so i havent been able to play 3 & knuckles. I wonder why the jackson team has been more uptight about the music as of late considering 3 had a decent amount rereleases in the past

[@pvzmariosonica8fan]

Some collections include it, like Classic Collection on DS and Mega Collection on GameCube

[@carn9507]

From what I been reading they were never paid for their work so have been suing Sega.

[@Makoto03]

Thanks for the confirmation. I admit i was one of the people who still thought the Michael Jackson involvement was more a rumor but glad it was officially confirmed. Disappointing to hear the music for Sonic 3 & Knuckles will be changed in Sonic Origins but i'm just glad to finally have the game available at all on modern consoles.

[@paulgilbert5278]

You literally hear Jam in the carnival level

[@carn9507]

@@paulgilbert5278 on Origins or you mean the original release?

[@Valientlink]

This is so crappy. Michael Jackson was completely innocent for one, and two that Finding Neverland documentary probably didn't translate well over to Japan. Unfortunate to lose some of the best tracks in the game.

[@carn9507]

That crap HBO film was called Leaving Neverland. Finding Neverland was a 2004 film starring Johnny Depp (ironically another target of false allegations who won in court but is still being dragged by the media who can't accept facts and evidence). But even the frauds Robson and Safechuck's own ambulance-chasing lawyer Vince Finaldi (who acts very like Amber Heard's desperate lawyers too) got them mixed up a lot too even on their website. :P

[@Alzter0]

Finally, a video on Sonic origins that's concise and explains all of the information without padding it out to 10+ minutes!!

[@arzfan29]

No, it's thanks to who owns mjs copyrights, mj chose to go uncredited because he didn't want music records to take royalties for the game because he hates their greediness

[@ZillaSupreme]

As long as the boss music, final boss theme, and doomsday zone aren’t changed, I’m fine with it. Disappointed that the music Jackson worked on won’t be on there, but hey! I’m glad that Sonic 3 and Knuckles is officially back in origins!

[@ShaimingLong]

The Sonic 3 boss theme probably won't be included. The one with the Jackson-esque voice clips and the original Knuckles theme backing.

[@ZillaSupreme]

@@ShaimingLong Guess the mini boss theme theme is going to be the one from Sonic and Knuckles

[@ShaimingLong]

@@ZillaSupreme Probably, especially if we can't play Sonic 3 or Sonic and Knuckles as a standalone in the collection.

[@ShaimingLong]

And to confirm, it's the combined game only, with none of the Sonic 3 only music included.

[@GodWarsX]

Ice Cap track being gone is a crime against humanity

[@sonicmario64]

I'm hoping that the Sonic 3 music for "Sonic Origins" will be the same kind of music from "Sonic & Knuckles Collection" on the PC, since I actually found the music in that game to be quite enjoyable despite how confused I was about why it was different from the original game before I eventually learned that the King Of Pop himself was involved in the production of the music for "Sonic The Hedgehog 3".

[@clarasanchez9565]

It will be. And not only that, there will be new renditions of those songs made by Jun Senoue.

[@sonicmario64]

@@clarasanchez9565 Really? That's very nice and cool to know, and Jun Senoue has always done an excellent job on the music for every Sonic game that he's done. :D

[@TheDreInDaHouse]

I LOVE THE pc version music much better. The music makes more sense for the levels and hated the OG sound.

[@MichaelF267]

I don’t believe they can’t get the rights. Sonic 3 was released twice after mj died -steam, “sonic classics collection” for ds, both with the original music. Also, Rapper drake sampled an unreleased Michael Jackson song in 2018 called “don’t matter to me” and In 2011, singer Chris Brown sampled Michael Jackson’s “human nature” in 2011 on a song called “she ain’t you” So Drake and Chris Brown can use his music post-death but sega can’t? After HBO damaged Mj’s reputation even further in 2019 with that “leaving neverland” special, even the simpsons removed the season 3 opener that mj guest starred in from streaming, reruns, and digital sales. It makes me wonder if sega just won’t use it for the same reason.

[@StuffWePlay]

Sonic Classic Collection on DS was already in Development when MJ died. But as for the Steam version...you're right haha! I had it written down that came out with the XBLA version in '09, but nope, it was 2011. Perhaps there's more legal stuff than just MJ, particularly from Brad Buxer? One other thing I want to mention is that this isn't the first time Sega's had some weird legal trouble with a game re-release. For some reason they couldn't use the Japanese lyrics in the HD re-release of Sonic CD

[@MichaelF267]

@@StuffWePlay oh wow. Maybe. I didn't know the ds one was in development before he passed. But yeah, it doesn't add up to me because of the steam release

[@JORDAN23TV]

Maybe it was a limited use contract since those releases were so close? I know that is how it works sometimes in film and tv. Drake and CB also bought the rights to unreleased Aaliyah music so I'm assuming they just buy the vocals upfront from whoever owned them. And we all know SEGA really doesn't play about their budget, the main reason why they don't create systems anymore. Still strange though

[@carn9507]

After that Leaving Neverland 'documentary' which has been debunked and contains well over 60 proven lies, contradictions, edited versions of archive footage etc, Jackson's sales, streams and subs actually went UP, not down. Yotube subs for example: From 2005 to March 2019 (when LN was broadcast) his youtube channel had 13 millions subscribers during those 14 years. Since March 2019? In a lil over 3 years it's now at 25.3 million. Nearly double what it had before. He's got three big budget live tribute stage shows, Cirque Du Soleil's MJ One (which LN fraud Wade Robson actually begged to work on back in 2011 which would have made him a lot of money, he was rejected, then he started his claims of abuse and his first of several failed attempts to sue for millions of dollars), UK's Thriller Live and most recently Broadway show MJ - The Musical which has been nominated for ten Tony awards (the awards show is tonight rather oddly enough). Seems like most people are done with all the lies and tabloid crap when all the legal facts and evidence are publicly available (court transcripts, FBI file, tons of footage and documents exposing the frauds). As an abuse survivor myself who was not a Jackson fan I watched Leaving Neverland expecting to sympathise and relate to it but instead noticed huge issues with their behaviour, stories, the total lack of any evidence over 4 hours, the manipulative production and several key statements that made me go research the facts. And yeah... heck, the director of it should be investigated because he actually claimed in an LA Times article that a child can have a 'fulfilling sexual relationship' and 'pleasant sex' with a man in his 30s and he really likes to romanticise the entire subject of pedophilia. Sick bastard. By the way that Simpsons episode was never taken off Amazon UK strangely enough, in fact they state Jackson's name both in it's synopsis and that of the entire Season 3 page. And it was rather hypocrticial it was removed from any service when they have episodes featuring rock stars like, for example, Anthony Kiedis who bragged about having sex with a minor in his auto-biography Scar Tissue and the old RHCP song 'Catholic School Girls Rule' is about that incident. A lot of rock stars did stuff with kids but people want to still drag a fully invesitgated and exonerated deceased black man? Oh and Matt Groening being on Epstein's jet and having his (apparently very disgusting) feet massaged by the same girl who Prince Andrew is in trouble for? Not a great look. Anyways, sorry (I'm autistic and I tend to type a lot and yeah I researched the heck out of all this over the past few years and regret I ever thought Jackson guilty) my point is Jackson's rep is mostly fine at moment and he's celebrated all around the world and his songs were sung in the 2020 BLM protests and such so IF Sega have been influenced by LN then they really shouldn't. I'm tired of people believing proven frauds who claim to speak for people like me but really don't (my story has always stayed the same, I don't constantly change it every time it fails to win millions of dollars). Have a good day. :)

[@MichaelF267]

@@JORDAN23TV maybe. speaking of aaliyah, her cover of marvin gaye's "got to give it up" sampled "Billie Jean", and her uncle just put the her music back out last year. It just makes no sense to me

[@sonicandgodzillafan730]

Im so mad rn

[@lylakacey]

It is sad... Copyright stuff sucks. Anyways, there's an option to reduce BGM Volume in the options, Idk if affects the games cause I haven't tried it but if it works just set the vol to 0 and play while listening to the "Original" tunes.

[@crumbsquid]

literally only found out about this as I played carnival night zone and was affronted with some weird music ive never heard before. dissapointed as those later levels had that iconic music ;_;

[@MentabytesChill]

and that's why I'm still playing AIR

[@Kelis98]

I’m upset about the original 3 & K MJ music not being in the game, the prototype versions aren’t as good and don’t fit as well Plus the prototype music they used iI’m upset about the original 3 & K MJ music not being in the game, the prototype versions while fine on their own aren’t as good and don’t fit as well Plus the prototype music they used is worse than the original prototype music Why can’t they get this issue sorted out so they can use the release versions, these versions don’t fit as well and the tone and feeling isn’t the same at all. IK there are still versions with the original music and origins will have mods on pc (and the music is online) but still it’s not ideal

[@danielwills2520]

Honestly, this'll be the first time i'll be able to play S3&K in it's full. I have fond memories of playing both of them separate but I'm looking forward to it.

[@MichaelF267]

I just got it. Sonic 3& knuckles was the first i played. I haven't beaten it yet but I can get used to the music changes. Mostly because I'm super sonic 90% of the time on those 3 stages Super sonic's theme was redone and they added back in sonic 3's stand alone final boss!

[@StuffWePlay]

Lol that's more than fair!

[@vladimirfruitin3118]

Michael did nothing wrong

[@MichaelF267]

I just got origins plus for XBOX and switch. I haven't played it on the switch yet. But on The XBOX Series X, it's a vast improvement over the first release. Much smoother, Less glitches. And Amy is playable in all 4 games and Kunckles is now playable on Sonic CD. Still the crappy re-makes of the prototype music. They should have just used the prototype tracks as is instead of replaying them. They sound much better on the prototype than origins. Unfortunately, Michael Jackson's not the only dead musician involved with sonic 3's soundtrack. The person shouting "AH!" During Act 1 Mini-Boss (Sonic 3 by itself) was sampled from A James Brown song. The person saying "go" In Launch Base Zone was sampled from a RUN DMC Song. Carnival Night Zone sampled Michael Jackson's song "Jam" Featuring Rapper Heavy D. You can vaguely hear Heavy D saying "Jam" and on the fan-made "Sonic 3 AIR" you can hear it completely. Jam Master Jay of Run DMC, James Brown and Heavy D are also dead.

[@carn9507]

Just occurs to me I don't actually know if I've ever played Sonic 3 or Sonic and Knuckles. I've watched clips of it and I listened to the end credits music when I was researching Jackson a lil while ago (and it's a nice tune). And I watched my friend play a bit of some rom that combined it all and added a whole ton of options (including music choices, including the Jackson/Buxer/etc tracks). Never been a big fan of Sonic but is Sonic 3/Knuckles considered the best one like Super Mario Bros 3 is regarded as the best Mario of that era?

[@Renegade666]

to a lot of fans (me included) Sonic 3K is the best classic era game/s, many people say Sonic 2 as well, which while great, I personally rank Sonic 3K better.

[@carn9507]

@@Renegade666 Thanks, Renegade. I should give it a proper go sometime. My friend downloaded that rom hack that makes Sonic 3 Complete and with pages of options to configure the games as much as people want so yeah I might grab that too. Have a good day. :)

[@jakeeddiejenkinsjr4774]

This Is sad news for me..💔.. I Love M.J. music Score.. I lost my Interest with Sonic Origins.. I Can't Play Ice-Cap Zone Without the Sega Genesis Version..

[@JORDAN23TV]

The DS collection has the original score too. But this is still disappointing

[@jamiewilliamson9829]

I know this is and old-ish video but I want to point out some stuff. Sonic 3 & Knuckles did get two more official releases in its original released form on the Mega Drive. One in 2010 via the Sonic Classic Collection on DS and one in 2011 via Steam. Another thing is that we can't just blame MJ for this whole Jacksongate thing (something I've just heard of now thanks to this video). Several figures tied to the MJ team could now hold the rights to the music and would probably charge SEGA a substantial fee just to license the music. On top of that, since IceCap was found out to be Hard Times, an unreleased track by The Jetzons in 1982, which we know Buxer worked on as the keyboardist for the group, the entire The Jetzons catalogue has been bought by Fervor Records which could potentially mean they own IceCap.

[@MichaelF267]

Not just that, Carnival Night Zone literally sampled MJ's "Jam" which features Heavy D. Heavy D died in 2011. So that also complicates things, especially when you can vaguely hear his voice saying "jam".

[@ryanwatchel9809]

I hope they include big arm boss in this version of sonic3 and K

[@djroscurro9859]

Good news

[@FusionGamerElite]

Are you fucking joking me? I thought we were FINALLY gonna get full on MJ tracks for Sonic 3!!!

[@Jimbo1221]

I'm glad they're gonna use the prototype music... I can't stand the Carnival Night and Launch Base zone music. I'll miss Ice Cap for sure though :(

[@StuffWePlay]

That original credits theme was always my favourite of the MJ tracks

[@carn9507]

@@StuffWePlay I was never much into Sonic or Jackson growing up (ok I'd played the earlier Sonic games and obviously I'd heard the big iconic Jackson songs like Beat It and Thriller and my mum took us to see Moonwalker at the cinema. I was an 80s kid after all but I was more into edgy industrial rock and such in the 90s), but past few years since researching the false allegations, I've come to admire Jackson and I've become more open to his music that I was much less aware of , Stranger in Moscow being among those, and it's a beautiful song and then I heard it reuses music he made for Sonic 3's end credits and so I went to look that up and that's a great tune too. I noticed some people even merged the two into a nice mix also. So yeah I've added that Sonic 3 end credits theme into my playlist of fave game music. :)

[@carn9507]

It's weird cos Ice Cap isn't even a Jackson tune. Brad Buxer based it on Hard Times a song by his own band The Jetzons from the 80s. The song even got released as a single in 2020 on a 'Sonic Blue' vinyl with sleeve artwork based on Ice Cap Zone itself. Only 250 copies made so kinda hard to get one for a Sonic collection. :O

[@Jimbo1221]

@@StuffWePlay oh yeah the original credits is amazing :,)

[@windy3935]

@@carn9507 Hold up! So we about to have a situation where the music was re-released on CD in 2020 but won't be included in the game level in 2022?!

[@Redkodiak1994]

It's Kool they made knuckles playable in sonic 1 & 2 yea I wish they him playable in cd And I liked the original sound Tracks 4 carnival night ice cap and launch base from mj instead of the new1s

[@monochromememory8275]

I think what's disappointing to me about Knuckles not being playable in CD is that it's just a weird cut from the game. Tails has been playable since the 2011 version and he was never in the game outside of an image in the sound test menu. Knuckles is even being playable in 1 which was never possible until the Mobile port. I just see there being little excuse to throw Knuckles into CD it just seems a little lazy to me, the code is already there, these games are all running on the same engine. And it's certainly got nothing to do with the lore since Knuckles is both playable in 1 and 2 before he was even introduced. Honestly this is probably the only issue I have with Origins. Well if anything the PC version will at least have the ability to mod Knuckles into CD. It's been done before it'll happen again.

[@ians_parks]

I wouldn't say Knuckles was "cut" per se. More like Sega just didn't bother to add him since he wasn't in the already existing CD remaster from 2011. And knowing Stealth is only working on S3&K specifically Idk if I really trust Sega to try and implement Knuckles into CD using the retro engine, without them potentially breaking something because its Sega.

[@VirtuousAezon]

They'd need to make new sprites from him

[@cool7492]

It seems that Sonic 3 and Sonic & Knuckles will in fact be playable by themselves. In one of the recent videos of the game it showed the Knuckles and Eggrobo Mushroom Hill cutscene, which can only be seen when Sonic & Knuckles is played by itself. It would be really stupid of Sega to show that cutscene if it won't even be featured in Origins.

[@windy3935]

So it's impossible to play that scene in Sonic 3 and S3&K?

[@ians_parks]

I'm sure they've added it into the S3&K remaster. We've aleady seen from the Famitsu livestream that they have no problem modifiying scenes. Also none of the menu's in press release screenshots or footage implies they can be played seperate. And Stealth always referred to it as the "sonic 3 and knuckles" remaster and never individually.

[@windy3935]

@@ians_parks When you say modify, you mean changing Knuckles stance and model color?

[@ians_parks]

@@windy3935 In just the opening scene to S3&K they've: Added a sound effect to when Sonic transforms into Super Sonic. His jump arch is slightly different when he jumps off the plane. There are now sparkle animations behind Super Sonic. Knuckles now crouches and then transitions to his fighting animation after he upper cuts Super Sonic. Knuckles' socks are corrected to be green (were yellow in the original). Tails now runs in from the left to catch up to Sonic (before he flew straight down).

[@windy3935]

@@ians_parks The only one I haven't noticed is the SS music. I hear nothing new

[@emp1la]

there better be that unused super sonic theme then.

[@thisnameisbad3609]

yea was really neat when i was playing sonic 3 air and discovered the option for an entire song to be played for super sonic instead of title screen music

[@pvzmariosonica8fan]

@@thisnameisbad3609 Complete has that option too

[@evdestroy5304]

That was never meant to be for Super Sonic, it's most likely a cut 2p theme.

[@emp1la]

@@evdestroy5304 i can't see it like that after playing sonic 3 a.i.r 😅

[@strelitziathekeyblader1657]

RIP Good Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base Music...And Hello Bad Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base Music...

[@gimmybhullar574]

What was the last Sonic 3 port with MJ's tunes? I heard it was on Nintendo DS in the mid-2000s.

[@MichaelF267]

The "Sonic Classic Collection" for the DS which came out after he passed but was in development before he passed or the steam version, which I think was 2011 but I'm not sure since I don't use steam.

[@adamtaylor6260]

It was clear that MJ did some of the tunes as Carnival Night and Launch Base zones music was awesome but Icecap zone was another level

[@afterthought55]

This problem with this video is that it doesn't discuss the reasons why his music might have been removed...

[@paulgilbert5278]

This is just like DKC3. The whole music change and all.

[@jomaq9233]

Pretty sure that was because of the GBA soundchip not being able to handle really low sounds that well

[@carn9507]

@@jomaq9233 Just reminded me how games on the GBA tended to sound like absolute garbage.

[@jomaq9233]

@@carn9507 Mother 3, and some of the SNES ports to GBA actually don’t sound too bad though (just ask ExoParadigmGamer)

[@carn9507]

Oh yeah I'm sure some were fine but generally speaking the GBA was infamous for poor sound of much of it'sgame library. Used to play mine with earphones in and...it wasn't pleasant.... but I put up with it cos I didn't like to play games with no sound at all.

[@paulgilbert5278]

@Jo Maq, Yeah I know, what I was going for were that both games were the third in their respective trilogies and had issues with the ost. Should’ve said it like that.

[@simonecameron326]

Wow

[@greenswag7763]

It's not thanks to michael jackson!! People are too generous with sega, it's obvious they didn't paid residuals to the composers on every rerelease, they're the problem, not mj.

[@superjq15fusion34]

Sonic 3 and Knuckles was on the DS!

[@Janembu]

Does the XBLA version of Sonic 3 have the OG music?

[@StuffWePlay]

Yes

[@socorrofernandez2909]

the Sonic don't want to use MJ MUSIC GAME BECAUSE THEY DON'T WANT TO ROYALTIES FOR THE MUSIC OF MJ.

[@bimmylee1744]

Don’t know how they messed up pretty much finished tracks, but Sega’s gotta Sega

[@ZacharyDietze]

I honestly don’t really care. As long as the music is good, fits with the game, and gets a proper re-release and remaster, then it’s a sacrifice I’m willing to make. This is a game meant more for the console players anyways, not everyone has access to a PC, especially with todays economy. If people were so picky about what soundtrack they wanted to use for Sonic 3, then there are mods for that. As someone who never got to play a single Sonic game yet though, I’m happy to even get an opportunity at this point. We haven’t gotten a re-release for Sonic 3 in at least a decade. I don’t think it’s that they don’t have the rights to the soundtrack, but rather that they want to distance themselves from Michael Jackson even further since a lot of controversies have been coming up about him since his death, which is a shame because I don’t think he actually intended to do anything wrong if he even did at all, but that’s just a guess. It’s even more unfortunate since he hardly had anything to do with any of Sonic 3’s and Sonic & Knuckles’ soundtracks in the end, but I suppose it was inevitable. I even remember Disney tried backing out of any involvement either, since after his death they completely rebuilt Captain EO at Epcot, only for it to be there for no more than 5 and a half years. (Which is admittedly a surprisingly long time, but that’s probably because of costs to take it down and attendance keeping it around longer) Overall, yes it’s unfortunate that they had to get rid of it, but ownership of the soundtrack or not, it wouldn’t have mattered in the end because corporations pretty much want nothing to do with Michael Jackson anymore to begin with outside of the few people who actually do own his music. It was gonna happen regardless, and it’s sad that a lot of people don’t realize that. I’m not saying it would’ve been impossible for them to add in the original soundtracks, but you have to understand that companies will do anything that they can to steer away from any controversy because they want their products to be as relevant and long term selling as possible. It’s the same reason why JonTron’s cameo was cut from Yooka-Laylee, which for an indie company is even *more* understandable yet unfortunate. One little misstep with how you are perceived by others and it’s over. In the case of Michael Jackson’s work though, at least his work got to stick around for a little longer since he’s a pop culture icon, but his removal from everything was gonna happen no matter what, all they did was delay it. Wether that’s out of pure ignorance, costs to replace, or to make more money with his content while they still could is all speculative depending in what you’re focusing on and who you ask, but in the end, it all gets removed at the end of the day because of controversy. I feel bad for his family and everyone who genuinely likes his work though since all of this negative backlash for him makes everything confusing, because regardless if he was a bad person or not the art should still be separated from the artist in my honest opinion. Michael Jackson isn’t the only one who worked on his stuff just because he starred in them. Another comparable example is John K. for Ren & Stimpy, he’s had a lot of allegations too, but he wasn’t even the one who made the show and its characters good anyways, as most of that work is attributed to other people like Bob Camp. As much flack as Nickelodeon gets these days with their poorer and poorer content, at least they understand that and are willing to keep that show and its characters around for stuff like Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl. I’m not even gonna get into the amounts of re-edits and cuts for the show itself either, that’s a whole separate can of worms, I’d just suggest looking up OLDTPBUSER’s archives for stuff like that, but my point is that even amidst all this controversy they still acknowledge it and is cemented as a part of their legacy. To see the opposite happening for Michael Jackson outside of his albums and music videos though is upsetting, especially when he’s way more famous in direct comparison. So yeah, it’s a sad situation that is pretty much out of everyone’s control when it comes to selling products, and I don’t blame the people and even corporations backing out because of it. What we should *really* be mad against is stuff that purposefully tries to paint him in a negative light like Leaving Neverland from HBO. *They* are the stuff and people behind them we need to blame, trying to monetize people’s cluelessness and/or suffering. They are taking advantage of not just Michael Jackson, but everyone who has interacted with him, and it’s sickening. Stuff like documentaries and interviews are one thing, but putting money into it, making people pay for it, or putting ads on it is another. But for now, the best we can do for most of us is to just be happy that Sonic 3 is being re-released at all officially for everyone to play, (Let alone remastered) take the original Sonic 3 soundtrack and throw it away from our minds. I can understand that fans of Sonic in general are not happy since a lot of the games have been pretty much sucking since Generations and the original Colors, but are we all *really* gonna be super petty about *one* soundtrack that didn’t make it into a classic game when there’s already at least another one or two soundtracks for it? Are they not even happy that CD alone has given us the option to select from *its* two great soundtracks, or for that matter, any of the soundtracks from other games now? We’re given a lot more options to make up for it and they’re *STILL* complaining about it? I’m not saying Sonic Origins is perfect, but it’s as if these people actively *WANT* it to fail so that no me can ever get Sonic 3 ever again just because of some freaking music. It’s ridiculous! I’d hate to see all their reactions to what would happen if a Sonic collection got a Super Mario 3D All-Stars treatment. I’m sure their reactions to that would be (Now understandably) catastrophically nuclear. But hey, who cares right? My mountain of text is too big for anyone to read since everyone has such a short attention span nowadays right? God forbid I support this and Sonic Mania to see more ports and new games like these made by those teams right? We can’t let anyone explain themselves for why they just want to try out and have fun with a simple game, right??? *”L + ratio + fatherless + you suck SEGA’s cock + your mom is a whore + doxxed + sending you to North Korea”*

[@Ajeez1000]

You wrote a mini essay my guy lol but hey you got passion which nothing wrong with that

[@ZikOfficialYouTube]

Jesus Christ, you wrote like 3 essays and a half.

[@klaus.sfc01official30]

If i can't fight big arms i uhh idk i just want to :p

[@Chapmike]

Good news!

[@PlayChannelLuki]

Sonic Origins is available? sorry I really don't know

[@MichaelF267]

it's out on the 23rd

[@mrclean7473]

why does sega still credit the original composers (brad buxer, bobby brooks, etc) sonic 3 in origins?

[@sixteenbitify]

They are credited too in the PC version. I wonder if it’s in the contracts to keep them credited no matter what or if Sega is too lazy to remove them from the credits in re-releases.

[@chasformer3091]

Will they ever release the music as a DLC?

[@-rlmn]

i mean if they pay fot it (something that they're being sued because they didn't) it's possible

[@chasformer3091]

@@-rlmn Maybe they should pay for it and get it over with

[@SixArmedSweater]

Well this is a massive disappointment.

[@StuffWePlay]

I'm honestly not sure if I'm surprised or not. I was hopeful we'd get the original music though tbh

[@JORDAN23TV]

We are honestly lucky to actually get a modern rerelease tbh

[@pvzmariosonica8fan]

@@StuffWePlay But the PC version _was_ the original...

[@JORDAN23TV]

So what was the deal with the DS version?

[@StuffWePlay]

Sonic Classic Collection was already in development when MJ died. Best I can tell, it was already clear to go

[@JORDAN23TV]

@@StuffWePlay That makes sense. I've been playing it for years waiting on another port lol

[@spaceaustrailia5895]

@@StuffWePlay it has nothing to do with MJ. It relates to the lawsuit. Sonic 3 & Knuckles was still released on steam in 2011.

[@cooldoge101]

Look they released sonic 1,cd, and 2 on mobile but not sonic 3. I'm disappointed on them. We need sonic 3 in mobile pls.

[@MargulanTRZ]

Can we get proto/PC music for sonic origins?

[@ians_parks]

Thats what they are doing. Jun Senoue is making new renditions of the proto/pc music of ice cap, launch base, and carnival night. The rest of the zones will be the originals though since they didnt involve MJ or his sound team. This is what the social media manager for Sonic meant by "a partial rework."

[@pvzmariosonica8fan]

@@ians_parks *laughs in Marble Garden Zone*

[@SonGokuBlack93]

@@ians_parks strange.. marble garden fits with thriller

[@ians_parks]

@@pvzmariosonica8fan Marble Garden Zone was composed by Miyoko Takaoka.

[@pvzmariosonica8fan]

@@ians_parks Explain that to Yuzoboy... kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHuynn2ugp2FrpY

[@PhilipMarcYT]

No, thanks to Sega for being cheapskates and not paying the license to use it. Sega ruined Sonic Origins catastrophically.

[@richardfranklin6003]

It's pointless to separate Sonic 3 because most of the Sonic 3 tracks that get overridden by Sonic & Knuckles have been removed, plus S3&K is how the game was originally intended (technically Flying Battery Zone should be before Ice Cap but they probably won't change the zone order). They've gone for some kind of hybrid solution besides the prototype music, there are some select changes such as the Sonic 3 title screen music playing. Hopefully things like Big Arms will come back and some tweaks will be made but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[@ExBenzi2]

Just heard the new tracks. Sorry, but MJ‘s (alleged) tunes still sound way better.

[@tegancombatti7836]

I actually prefer the new "Origins" music, with the exception of the original "Ice Cap Zone"- That music is super epic and one of the best Sonic tracks, and a truly severe loss in my opinion.

[@narcopsy]

Michael Jackson had little input on the songs that his producer wrote for the 3 or 4 songs that are changed. These were just recycled songs and melodies from old albums, not much original work done

[@zintosion]

Hee! Hee!

[@StuffWePlay]

Shamone

[@mrjab6313]

voy ser sincero no me gusta para nada la música de la versión de pc aún cuando gracias al prototipo se mostró la versión fm de estas siguen sin gustarme lo siento pero es mi gusto personal

[@base21]

Why does it say thanks to Michael jackson?

[@flyinghaiku]

Why is MJ music being taken out of games

[@PhilipMarcYT]

Sega doesn't want to pay to license the music. Cheap mofos.

[@MichaelF267]

it wasn't just Michael Jackson's music in sonic 3. There's other music from other dead people in the game, which complicates things. The "go"s in "Launch Base Zone" are sampled from a RUN DMC Song. Jam Master Jay of Run DMC is also dead. Act 1 Mini Boss (From Sonic 3 by it's self) sampled a vocal clip from James Brown's song "Say It Loud (I'm Black & I'm Proud)". James Brown is Dead. Carnival Night Zone Literally sampled MJ's Song "Jam" which featured the rapper Heavy D. Heavy D is also dead.

[@totti1st]

We need to bully them back to #restoretheMJsoundtracks

[@MadSociety-uy6zg]

I almost threw up maybe it's an exaggeration but Sonic 3 and Knuckles on origins the new tracks don't fit at all they didn't even try to at least make ice cap still sound epic like the original music always got me hype this just sounds terrible the guy who I can't spell his name this is worst work for a Sonic game ever.

[@lay-lowandsmash1519]

Lol Thanks to Michael Jackson? Pretty sure its thanks to Sega not wanting to pay for the music to be used

[@ians_parks]

Nobody knows the exact reason. All any of us can do is speculate based on what we do know which was MJ was involved.

[@lay-lowandsmash1519]

@@ians_parks and MJ's music is on the radio. We also know Sega didn't want to pay the man who wrote and produced ice cap zones theme. Sega is known to be cheap and not pay for lisenced music for rereleases. Probably why jet set radio future hasn't rereleased in 20 years too. Pay the money and the music would be in the game. They're cheap,simple

[@scoobydouche9991]

Is there any reason to get this over emulating the classic games? Lol

[@Renegade666]

widescreen support and getting all 3 classic characters in sonic 1 and 2 with complete movesets.

[@scoobydouche9991]

@@Renegade666 not worth $40

[@Mumu2k3]

@@scoobydouche9991 There's always sales

[@ponyboy90]

I don’t get it, if he was such an issue for his crimes then cool but we don’t stop playing classical music for all the weird stuff ancient music composers ever did. So why bother pulling MJ influenced music 😑

[@b3ans4eva]

This is why I didn’t buy Origins.

[@MrMartellSincere]

@@Leonard_Wolf_2056 garbage is garbage 🗑️

[@MrMartellSincere]

@@Leonard_Wolf_2056 it's unfinished and incomplete garbage with bugs, broken soundtrack, and most of all, Sega rushed this game to be real with you

[@PhilipMarcYT]

And for that, this video gets a dislike.

[@Cantimule]

As if I needed another reason not to buy it :)

[@xspranp7649]

So glad they're gonna be using the prototype music. MJ's music for Sonic 3 was not good at all compared to the prototype.

[@TheDreInDaHouse]

Facts on facts on facts. The only reason to say the OG music was good is nostalgic sake. Tune to tune versus melody to Melody. PC music of sonic collection was much better

[@starsINSPACE]

All the rape apologists in the comments 🤢

[@carn9507]

Where? I don't see any. Who is excusing any rape you apparently think occured? Nobody. Cos none happened in Jackson's case and I hope to hell nobody here would apologise for any actual rape or molestation. I'm a sexual abuse survivor myself and I bothered to check facts a few years ago after watching Leaving Neverland expecting to relate to Robson and Safechuck but noticing huge issues with their behaviour and words so went off to check facts and yeah they're full of crap (and the director has actually claimed kids can have 'pleasant sex' with adult men. I think he needs investigating himself), so then I researched the 2005 trial. Yep, the Arvizos exposed their own contradictions and scams right there in the court room. So I went and researched the 1993 allegations. A total extortion by dodgy dentist Evan Chandler who didn't even give a crap about his son Jordan until he found out that the kid (and Evan's ex-wife June) were pals with a very rich pop star and Evan started begging for money from Jackson. To which Jackson refused for months. And THEN Evan made up the allegations. It's pretty much confirmed as extortion in the book Evan's brother wrote years later. I highly recommend watching Square One by Danny Wu (who thought Jackson might be guilty, researched, then discovered all facts and evidence have always been on Jackson's side). Best version is on Amazon but older free version is here on KZbin. Explains the 1993 extortion, and why no one accuser ever went to the police (except one kid in canada who never even met Jackson but was coached by pedo Rodney Allen) but always straight to civil lawyers demanding millions of dollars. Based on court files you can go verify if you want to. The court transcripts are fully available as is the FBI file on Jackson (on the FBI's own archive site) Many real survivors like myself who were not Jackson fans before, despise those proven frauds exploiting our stories and our trauma for their failed scams (and they change their stories every time it fails too... OUR stories never change. We just tell the TRUTH). Anyways, there's a TON of info about this which explains the allegations were always false and Jackson's been the scapegoat while a whole ton of white rock stars did all sorts to minors and brag and even SING about it (Go look up Iggy Pop or Anthony Kiedis of the Red Hot Chili Peppers. David Bowie has multiple allegations that get ignored but the black man who was investigated more than serial killers and fully exonerated gets the blame). You wanna see rape apologists? Bill Wyman of the Rolling Stones was 47 when he started 'dating' Mandy Smith who was just 13. And he married her a few years later. And it was all public. Right there in front of everyone. Not even remotely secretive. And nobody did a damn thing and he's treated as a legend for being in the Stones. Sorry for all the words but damn it annoys me when people still believe blatant and debunked lies. All the facts, evidence, legal files etc are public and contradict much of the crap said by scammers and tabloids. I regret I ever thought Jackson guilty. I loathe Robson, Safechuck, Arvizo and Evan Chandler (not so much his son Jordan, whom he forced into his scam).