''The Souls Philosophy'' - Shadow Of The Erdtree Retrospective

[@np_animation6319]

I literally cannot believe you're not some massive content creator, this channel as of me finding it has two subscribers. TWO. i'm really happy to be the third, keep up the amazing work.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

ahhhh dude that makes me feel warm and fuzzy haha, glad to see the effort has paid off, your comment motivates me to keep making content, glad to have you dude, welcome!

[@BigAbe_Hashtag_FreeTheSlaves]

Well it probably will become a bigger channel but this is their first video

[@JayEff-o1l]

Absolutely beautiful take on shadow of the erdtree & its final boss, i too love this boss it one of my favorites in all my time gaming, also appreciated hearing a summary of your journey thru souls games ^w^

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

thanks so much dude haha! glad you also loved this boss and SOTE, it was 100% a blast from start to finish. hopefully in a later video I can go a little bit deeper into some other sentimental souls topics!

[@albertoorsomariaiorio2823]

Awesome video man! I agree with most of your points, and in fact I was happy to finally have a challenge again, after having learned the main game's bosses and all the ways to break them. Now I have something to look forward to, as besides the "gimmicky attacks" the boss moveset tightness and aggressiveness has ramped up in a dramatic way. And you can't get easily away with the one shots because of the skadoosh fragment mechanics and the insane HP they have - no more Morgott incidents! I also think that for the first playthrough many attacks are only perceived as unfair because we haven't learned yet how to optimize against them. For example, on my first playthrough I decided to tank some of the PCR clones and dodge only the lethal attacks, control the panic, and that was good for the W, similarly to your story. Now after, much more experience, I know how to dodge properly all clones as well, but my first playtrhough they were to me more oppressive as the cross slash given how my build actually allowed me to partially low-profile it. On repeated playthoughs I am still on the fence about the cross-slash itself, thinking about it in a hitless perspective, as it really closes up space on how to play the fight. I think one has to also acknowledge that there is a community and an interest for that as well, and making completely undodgeable attacks I think misses the mark a bit, as it is a "skill-independent" aspect of the fight in the end. However, in the end, I learned how to adapt to the cross-slash as well, and the fight albeit more challenging had become extremely satisfying. I was so sad about the changes overnerfing him that I now play with the pre-patch PCR mod. I hope that when they see that enough people hard-stuck on him finish the game, they undo at least some of the changes, especially on the weird opening windows they introduced.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

great comment man I actually relate to everything you said, the biggest issue for me with the fight was the clones and the light beams to be honest, I was actually surprised to hear how many people hated the cross slash, to me the light beams where the biggest offenders at first lol, but then when I realised that you just need to stick super close to his body to avoid them, I began to practice the first phase like that, sticking super close to build the habit, that is the exact moment I realised, ''whoa, this fight is amazing'', whats great about it is that it leads you to believe for ages that the second phase is pure chaos, but its just the first phase, but sticking right there on his ass instead, I thought that was pretty clever. the simplicity hiding in plain sight. thats why I kind of see the fight sort of like a puzzle now, that takes ages for figure out, but it just feels really rewarding when you do. I'm defo sad about the nerf aswell, because they made him slower aswell, I haven't tried it yet but from clips ive seen, it seems he is way slower, so the fight seems to have lost a bit of the thrill. and yeah dude I think the scudu fragments were a great idea! some people think there could have been better solutions, but to me it does its job pretty well, the way they were implemented might have been a little awkward, like not having any pattern into where they are found, just randomness, thats not great to me, but the idea itself was 100% solid. thanks for your comment dude, I enjoyed reading it!

[@michelecais4111]

​@@DeepDiveCosyCorner Trust me, it isn't that bad when you fight him again by yourself. The only thing that's really changed is the cross slash and he has generally longer openings (about like 1 second longer), but the fight remains still very hard for From's standards; they just made him actually playable for slower builds. However, I can see if you are disappointed with this since you put so much time on learning him, but I personally think is an overall better fight than at launch.

[@oddlang687]

I have a very similar opinion about Consort Radahn. Even before seeing your video or hearing anyone else's analysis about him, I recognized that FromSoft wanted to create a boss that pushes the player to their limits, that asked for near perfection and was the ultimate opportunity for the devs to say "throw anything and everything you can think of at this guy, he's still hard as hell." He feels like the ultimate challenge that tests you in so many different ways, yet allows for so much player freedom with how to approach him (moreso now that he got nerfed).

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

couldn't agree more dude, throw everything and anything at him, and he will still force you to re-evaluate something along the way. for me he has the top spot of favourite boss fights.

[@mochpoch]

Found you through the algorythm, enjoyed the video very much and thought well let‘s see what else they have on the channel. Well, l am now subscriber no. 22 and looking forward to new content :) Keep up the good work, you are very talented! xx from Germany

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

Thank you thank you! really glad you enjoyed it, I'm spending a bit of time thinking about the sort of content I want to regularly upload, as I want these sort of ''passion essay'' videos to not be forced, and only work on them when inspiration hits, so they will be more occasional, but I still do want to upload things regularly, I'm thinking maybe some playthroughs of games aswell, that should be fun too haha! Love from the UK back to you!

[@KubinWielki]

About 5 minutes into the video, thoroughly enjoying the calm voice, the good structure of the video thus far, and I'm thinking to myself - "Huh, can't wait to watch through this one's backlog. Must've taken him a while to find his style like that." Scoll down... 13 subscribers. 1 video. What. Well... 14th subscriber, glad to be here.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

ahaha love this sort of comment, thanks very much sir! ive had some experience with video editing in the past, but this is the first one in this style, its fun to make, just takes a long time haha. welcome dude, glad to have you!

[@KubinWielki]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner The editing background makes sense, and definitely shows. Now that I've watched the video, I have to admit that I definitely don't see eye to eye with you on certain things (though still really enjoyed the video, regardless). At some point you mention that it's not a bad boss design, but rather a design that necessitates learning and memorazing the boss's patterns and attacks, and that it works against using "OP tactics/builds" to circumvent it. While I agree that it doesn't make it a "bad" design, it's definitely a type of design I don't enjoy and find vapid - I like challenge in games, but I like to overcome it my way, not just "the one true way" that the game forces on me, so if a game throws a boss which demands the slow-paced, 200-attempts meticulous learning of all the minutiae of the boss's animations and attack windows, I'll just be bored out of my mind. In my mind, re-attempting something tens (let alone hundreds) times isn't a challenge or fun - it's just work and tedium. I'm just not able to derive satisfaction from it, because if I have to bash my head against something that many times, any and all feeling of satisfactions from finally doing it, has been long since eroded into a feeling of "thank fuck this tedious shit is finally over". Again, this is not to say that "boss bad" or that people are wrong to enjoy it (hell, I cherish Elden Ring for what it is, despite not being a fan of the franchise - ER being my introductory game into the Fromsoft's works), but I'm definitely glad that we *can* go against the intended design in ER. When I first began playing, I was elated to see that I could postpone Margit until I felt ready, and discovering that I could just ride around Stormveil to explore further was probably *the* thing that made me fall in love with ER. That's why I'm not a fan of the game just going "No. You play *my* way now, regardless of your fun.". Though on second thought, I'm being a hypocrite here, because I distinctly recall people having this exact complaint in regards to the Marauder fight in DOOM Eternal, and I loved the absolute fuck out of that fight, so I can't even pinpoint the exact reason why I find some "learn my moves" bosses vapid, and some great.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

@@KubinWielki Thanks for watching the whole video bro I appreciate it! yeah dude I understand, but I guess where we diverge here is that I really grew to love the classic souls formula, 50 attempts against a boss, even 100+, I think I am just someone that bonds with an experience the more time I spend trying to understand it, the more confusing it is initially, the more likely I will be to stick with it until I get it, perhaps its a bit masochistic lol, and even if I curse the hell out of the fight while its happening, I do find it extremely satisfying when I figure it out, funnily enough I did find the consort radahn fight boring at first, I was bored of dying over and over on the second phase with no clue of how I died, but I really began to get immersed into it after about 200 tries, I know its a lot, not everyone wants to die 200+ times, but thats just how I experienced it, and its definitely a call back to the approach souls games had before Elden ring, if Elden ring is the only souls game someone has played or enjoys, I understand why this sort of experience is a bit bizarre, but that sort of is the core of souls games, overcoming initially insurmountable odds. I know players like me might sort of be in the minority here, but the more overwhelming a challenge is, the more memorable it will be after its over. but anyway dude its alright if we disagree, this discussion is a fun one to have anyway! 😁so to summarize, to me, feeling like an experience was truly ''fun'' always has to involve a little bit of misery along the way 🤣the last point I want to respond to is that I've seen players beat radahn in particular in many different ways, with magic, dex weapons and heavy weapons, even in co-op or with summons, none of these methods are cheating, as long the player doesnt feel like it is. even if some styles of combat are heavily punished, the options you can take to change things up does allow for creativity. so you didnt enjoy any other souls games if I understood correctly?

[@KubinWielki]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner Aye, I completely understand that it can be fun, and IS fun for many people (hell, if it weren't, then soulsborne games wouldn't have taken off like they have and wouldn't have become such a well known and loved genre), and I get that to many people it's a divine feeling to overcome a challenge you bashed your head against for tens or hundreds of tries. It's just that to me, the tedium of grind overshadows the final victory. I have sometimes envied other people the ability to find the eventual victory worth the grind. As for the other games - I've been a PC player my whole life, so I find it immensely uncomfortable to play with a controller, and playing the original souls with mouse and keyboard proved to be... well, the controls in themselves were a constant bossfight, lol. I enjoy when a game is challenging through in-game merits, but not when it's challenging through the ways controls/camera are set up. Elden Ring seems to be the most polished in that regard, so the controls and camerawork are tolerable vast majority of the time with mouse and keyboard. I have Bloodborne on console, and I played through a portion of it with great enjoyment, but ultimately fell back to just playing PC games (again, really difficult to get used to the controller after a lifetime of exclusively using mouse and keyboard). But I enjoyed the atmosphere of Bloodborne dearly, and I fully intend to go through it someday.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

@@KubinWielki yeah man completely understandable, the main thing is having fun in your own unique way, not everyone likes to do the same thing for days or weeks over and over XD a lot of people were just glad the fight was over, not just with him but with lots of these notorious bosses aswell, for me its always less annoying when I'm expecting to have a tough challenge, when I dont expect it, I can still throw a tantrum lol, real bad XD its the exact opposite for me, I cant play with keyboard for shit lol, I tried but I can hardly walk in a straight line, but honestly dude I think getting used to a controller would be in your benefit, as I'm sure you would love the other souls game (all have their fair share of bullshit moments too), but all bosses are always more ''fair'' than in SOTE, some of peoples top ones are in DS3, that one is known for amazing fair bosses, I would 100% recommend you give that a try, ideally with a controller haha, I think you would have a blast.

[@TheGrizzlyKnight]

Totally agree! I spent hours fighting Consort Radahn and dying. The next day I killed him in 20 minutes using only 4 crimson flasks. Many videos online told me that summoning gives him more health and makes his moves less predictable. But I summoned everyone to take on the final boss and used a Holy Black Steel Greatshield and Bleed Lance to show even a God can bleed and after beating him handedly wanting to take it back and try different builds to beat him. Him and Bayle were my biggest challenges where I first tried the Dancing Lion and Rellana.

[@HeyTarnished]

I actually loved your video, I see it a From Software cycle, I've been playing their games since 2015 & I'll let you know right now, that with every game they released since then has been met with difficulty complaints all around the internet, but back then, this stuff mostly happened in game forums & Reddit posts so not much in the KZbin scene, where it began to seem very loud has been since Sekiro released, all the difficulty complaints about the game were crazy, even Elden Ring base game we all know how that looked back in 2022, Armored Core 6 also had difficulty complaints to the point FromSoft felt forced to nerf Balteus & other bosses in that game (Godammit!!!), and now Shadow of the Erdtree, it's always a cycle with these games, now it's much more palpable to the community, of course Elden Ring saw the biggest uproar because the game was HUGE in popularity so you'll be seeing newcomers complaining about it. There were ways to circumvent base game Elden Ring difficulties, just like any Souls game before (look up broken builds in Bloodborne, DS1/2/3, there are a lot), I felt Shadow of the Erdtree kind of made those weaker but still quite powerful, just not as before. Elden Ring's bosses have much more combat expression than previous Souls with way more combo-branching, delayed attacks that you can punish, jump-attack some attacks & duck follow-ups etc, it's just a more complex game to deal with.

[@Kannon100]

DS3 was my 1st and like you I had been away from gaming for about 5-10yrs. It will always be special as it changed my perspective on gaming and rpgs and dragged me back in! can’t say I’ve played many other games since - enjoyed the vid!

[@mortuarycookiezshane4192]

Great video! Personally I loved the spike from base ER to Shadow. I love souls games and have been playing them for years. When you look back at even dark souls there is a massive change in flow and difficulty from the base game to the dlc, same with bloodborne. There were tweaks in the dlc bosses that changed the flow of battle from the base game. So I would’ve been very disappointed if this wasn’t the case with Shadow of the Erdtree. Needless to say I had nothing to worry about as the pacing is so very different in the fights. It took me almost two weeks to beat the dlc and I missed a lot of stuff but every boss and challenge was so fun and new and intriguing. I died somewhere in the 300s range with promised consort before I finally beat him but it was so very fun and satisfying and I learned something almost every run. Which is why I love souls games. I play them for that very reason. I’m not saying that’s for everyone but every game doesn’t have to be for everyone. For example I don’t think fps games are unfair just because I suck at them. I know some ppl say “git gud “ as an insult but since back in the day when it came to souls games I never felt like it was an insult, more like a challenge. Anyway enjoyed the video! Thanks!

[@vankakt]

Man this video is nearly all I started to think after finishing the first playthrough of the DLC and going for the second. In a way with time ER has become easy due to how much strength a well crafted build gave to a player to the point of not really needing any skill to surpass any boss. When playing SOTE I though we'll this is to show that there is room for a challenge even in such a game, even after such a long time and it felt so very exciting to take it on and learn again and discover! It felt like one of those warrior manga moments "only when near death do we truly feel alive" and that's the beauty of it! 😁

[@andrewkelly1337]

When it comes to Shadows, a lot of the complaints are coming from people who genuinely assert that solo, melee only is the intended and best way to play and anything else is cheapening the fights and ignoring mechanics. So they're playing their 6th Soulslike from Fromsoft (Sekiro is offline only and that changes the game a lot) and they are still only using the same buttons and mindset they had for Dark Souls 1. But the games have evolved and franky always had more than they are willing to accept. So it's a different kind of skill issue, a mentality thing. To an extent.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

Yeah I completely agree, you can completely play these games in any way you want, if you wanna play with summons or magic, thats fully up to you, the thing I think is great with this dlc is that I think from-software took that into account when making these bosses, as they obviously dont want anyone breezing through it like they do in the base-game, so the sudden rise in challenge is more noticeable to everyone because they are now dying more than 10 times XD but that was the whole point initially, I think it was the right choice design wise, and its definitely a mentality thing, 100% dude. everyone will have way more fun if they prepare for spending a bit more time being stuck.

[@Zayd-bg1pt]

the reason that's the opinion is that using broken builds and fast or even average speed ranged attacks allow you to avoid engaging with a bosses moveset, with a greatshield you can simply hold down 1 button and only need to dodge grabs, with spells that don't have long cast times you can simply run away and shoot, if you're using a non hyperarmour non status abusing non stance break abusing melee build then you need to actually stay near the boss and learn to dodge the attacks

[@Ghorda9]

it's not that they're doing melee only, it's that they try to dodge/R1 everything and don't bother thinking about the fights

[@vandalic8566]

let people play how they want. that's the point of these games.

[@vandalic8566]

​@@Ghorda9there's no thinking involved with bosses like PCR. roll and rl1 is all you can do, you can't strafe or position on most if not all of his moves cause his tracking is insane

[@entroponetics]

Good video, mostly. I do disagree that pre-nerf Radahn was a boss you needed to master in order to win. I beat him 6 times on standard playthroughs and never really felt close to mastery on any of them. It wasn't until my RL1 playthrough that I felt like I was approaching that point. And I think aspects of his moveset pre-nerf made true mastery essentially impossible. Post-nerf he's a lot more fair (some hitbox and attack sequencing issues remain in phase 2) but I think most of the criticisms of him before patch 1.14 were valid, and I think that's why he got nerfed. The 1-2-X combo being undodgeable pre-nerf can't have been intentional.

[@I.X.N.S96]

Yeah to be honest, I really can’t believe he’s arguing the point that it was intentional that that move was to not be 100% avoidable. Even if that was the case, they would’ve done a horrible job at conveying that. Compare that to Mohg’s nihil, that CLEARLY shows you it’s unavoidable damage, and even then you have different ways of tackling it. I just find if annoying how there’s a bunch of people that finally beat the boss and then change tune after saying, “yeah it’s not all that bad guys”. We have literal no-hit/challenge runners - people who use tools to analyze the game at levels the average person can’t/wont - saying that PCR has some nonsense in his design. I don’t know why it’s so hard for people to just admit that fromsoftware can make mistakes sometimes, they even seem to think so themselves considering they patched it

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

thanks dude! well... personally I highly doubt that the cross slash attack was not intentional, this was the final boss, so we can assume they had many tune ups and play testing before the release, they did nerf it, yes, most probably due to the fact that they realised many people didnt like it, which is fine, I wasnt in love with that move or anything lol, it was a single aspect of a perfect fight for my tastes, that move made the fight more stressful and demanding, which I enjoyed, but the rest of the fight can be mastered, and I think the rest of the nerfs were not necessary, he did not need to be slowed down, and the light beams were an aspect of the fight that I think were awesome. I used the cross slash attack as the crux of my point only because people were using it as an example of the whole fight being terrible, thats really all to be honest, I dont think having unavoidable attacks in fights necessarily ruins them, they can add a certain charm if done well, and I personally think it was done well. after all, the fights are made purely for the experience, not for the analysis of all the mechanics, thats what I was focusing on anyway.

[@entroponetics]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner Shit happens when you try to push out a project of this size in what was essentially under 2 years. Wouldn't be the first time FromSoft released a boss in a bad state due to time constraints. Radahn was not Bed of Chaos-level bad before 1.14, but he was definitely not a fun experience for most people. Cross slash wasn't the only problem, either. His aggression level was overtuned to the extent that his rate of attack would frequently outpace player stamina recharge (even with the 2-headed turtle talisman), which I'm glad they adjusted. His lightspeed slash attack used to follow up into a sword combo in such a way that made it practically impossible to dodge (especially with the framerate drops it caused). There's also the issue (which remains) of him doing Starcaller Cry and its follow-up at point-blank range in phase 2, which is basically instant death in almost every instance. And the uneven terrain towards the back of the arena messes with a lot of his hitboxes. Basically, if they wanted to create a 'challenging but fun and fair' boss, they failed to do so at launch.

[@I.X.N.S96]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner the phrasing of it being nerfed because people didn't like it is kind of crazy and it again comes off as dismissive to people's actual complaints. From isn't a company that just gives into player complaints, if that were the case, then waterfowl dance would've been nerfed too. in reality, they themselves realized it was too much. the light beams in of itself aren't an issue, i understand what they're going for - emulating Gael's fight with his cape following up his sword swings. the actual issue is the visual clutter on the screen. not only was it causing people's fps, but it's also a cheap way to obscure visuals. there are ways to do this right - ways that From already did in this very same game - Mohg again as the example. he uses his blood flame slash to obscure the player's vision, mixing up what he could follow up with next. Messmer is another example, where he does something very similar. again, unavoidable attacks aren't the issue, if they intended that, then that's one thing, but even if they did intend that, there's no clear way of telling it's supposed to be unavoidable unless you bash your head against a brick wall to figure out you're supposed to get hit. wanna know a way that From actually conveys unavoidable hits in a great way? Mohg's fight, again. if i'm being charitable, it'll probably take the average player like 2-3 times to figure out that's supposed to happen. that's game design done right. same developer, same game. if you liked the fight pre-patch, by all means, power to you. i just hate the language and dismissiveness that people bring when people bring up very valid arguments for why our lord and savior Miyazaki might've went too far with some things

[@morsadmirari9408]

@@I.X.N.S96 The move isnt actually unavoidable, people who want to beat him without getting hit can do so by hugging his body and dodging left, its a restrictive playstyle for a restrictive mindset, if you dont pressure yourself to no-hit the boss you can fight him from different distances and with a larger variety of moves.

[@aaforagnostics6496]

This is awesome! You could make a fortune!! 👌💯👌

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

hahah thanks dad, I guess we will see 😅💗

[@icarusablaze1831]

20:12 dude this shit caught me so off guard I died 😂😂 Also just want to say this was a great video, you got a new sub in me bro. Radahn was a super frustrating fight for me mainly from the light beams, but eventually I hit that run that you know is "the run", when you've damn near perfected the first phase and get him one hit from stagger going into second phase so that you can I-frame through Miquella's light. And then managing to survive his meteor attack. I saved my storm hawk summon for the final 10% of his health bar just to secure the victory, and it felt so satisfying. You really speaking truth---you have to go in with a plan for this guy.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

hahaha just as intended dude, not even I expected that thug shit to start pouring out there, eh, just go with the flow as they say 🤣🤣 yep that sort of run that you had is exactly what the developers intended I think, literally surviving by the skin of your teeth 🤣 those ones are some of the greatest memories, ideally you want your heart to be beating out of your chest when you are close to winning, I was shaking like shit when on my winning run, I felt dizzy damn it 🤣 glad you had a good experience bro, and glad you enjoyed the video, thanks for the sub G!

[@mdeeess3863]

That Radahn intro 🤣🤣🤣 subbed

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

hahaha I was in my stupid vibe with that one 🤣 cheers for the sub!

[@fox65094]

Awesome video and I'm v happy to have been there when you finally beat him!!! 😤🫨😎🥳✊

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

thank you mrs delta! 🥺🥺 it was really a thrill, glad you were there too 🥰❤

[@Marco1995Mega]

The only thing I disagree with is the idea that builds that make certain, if not most, bosses significantly easier is against the core of From's design philosophy. Ever since Demon's Souls, there were plenty of ways to manage the challenges, from the classic 'gittin' gud' to using NPC or player summons to using magic to grinding for more levels; hell, shields made all the difference prior to BB. The difference between fighting O&S in DS1 solo and fighting them with Solaire, for example, is night and day, let alone while being a mage yourself. Apart from maybe Sekiro, that hasn't changed, because 'getting gud' is just one way they want the players to succeed. They don't care HOW you succeed; they just care that you do, in a way that suits you. Miyazaki himself admits that he's terrible at games, and that when replaying Elden Ring in the midst of SotE's development, he used spirit ashes to assist him. Trial and error is about more than just repeatedly beating your head against the many walls of these games until they give in, but also trying different builds and strategies and tools. ER is a very open-ended game with a lot of tools and builds, and it very actively caters to the players who will prioritize fun and engagment over optimization. IF they happen to overlap, tho, then good on them. Admittedly, it caters to me and the Ongbals of the world (the experimentation and creativity, not the no-hit part), and other such players. That's not to say balancing goes out the window, but that this is a sandbox and a playground to find your own niche and joy. About the learning curve, you absolutely had to do the same in the previous games. In DS1, if you played melee, you had to ignore shields, summons, and even pyromancy. Same for DS2. In BB, you had to ignore parry-spamming, fire paper/serrated weapon combos, summons again, certain blood gems, and even just R1-spamming a lot of the times. In DS3, summons again and certain weapons like the Sellsword Twinblades, even shields to a smaller extent. This really is nothing new and just boils down to 'play the way you want to play'. I'd make the argument that since these were more linear games, these imbalances and willing handicaps are an even bigger issue. I do find it a bit funny that you mentioned that SotE's bosses adhere more to a 'git gud' style of overcoming difficulty, when every mandatory boss has summons available right in front of their room, and Messmer and Bayle even have summons INSIDE their arenas, meaning they will not receive the usual buff. Hell, Messmer has TWO; Hornsent and Jolan. I also find it is much easier and time-efficient to overlevel yourself with Fragments in the DLC than with regular grinding in the base game. I also just think the the DLC boss combos are fewer in number and more static in execution; they don't have the combo-branching variability and reactiveness of bosses like Margit/Morgott, Malenia, and Maliketh. Sorry, but I do think you conflated personal experiences and even preferences with developer intention.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

good points dude, I wont deny anything you said, this is my personal experience talking, and my perspective on what I want from from-software games, I'm not claiming to be an expert in mechanic analysis, I'm not even claiming that SOTE is the perfect embodiment of the learning curve and of getting good, it has its design flaws and inconsistencies, even for my tastes, for someone that genuinely finds value in beating my head against a wall, the point I am making though is that, from my perspective, SOTE is an ATTEMPT at levelling the playing field a little, it is not an assumption on my part that overcoming adversity is the MAIN point of these games, among many others, Miyazaki has said so in the past. there are ofcourse still ways to break SOTE, there are also fantastic bosses in the base game that are plenty hard, its still the same game after all, there are still methods of making it less challenging, but it just takes a bit more time to figure them out in SOTE, at least in my experience, and it was the same for many other players, i believe that they wanted to give everyone the chance of experiencing something more memorable. and I think it has done that pretty well. the intention of SOTE speaks for itself, and was a shock for many players to adjust to initially, and you are right, the learning curve has been present in all other souls games, but in this video, I am talking about Elden ring, and how the dlc differs from the base game, and how I believe they ATTEMPTED to re-balance it, whether it was perfectly executed in all aspects or not is another topic, the main point I am making is that I respect the approach in SOTE, and I had a good time. and I had fun talking about the reasons why. thanks for your comment dude, I appreciate the time you took for your comment.

[@Marco1995Mega]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner Thanks. I don't often comment, but when I do, I suck at being concise and worry how it might come off. The main reason I did is just because I don't agree with the community's take that they've lost the plot regarding the interaction between difficulty and build-making and options in ER. I'm of the firm opinion that any mechanical solution to overcome the challenges is not only valid, but always intended by the developers, including the ones that make the bosses easier and even trivialize them, and that it's been the case since DeS. As an aggressive melee player myself, I just can't wrap my head around the fact so many people see all these options these games provide them, and then claim that two-handing your one chosen weapon is the only intended way and everything else is either decorative or cheese. Basically, they give you all the tools, but let you choose how you want to play. It's not a perfect method, and balancing has never been From's strongest point, but hey, it works for me and many others. Regardless, great video. Maybe even outright necessary in times like these. Addendum: DS3 is my second fav Soulsborne game and my 3rd fav game of all-time (behind ER and GoW: Ragnarok). Second addendum: Base ER bosses are harder than the DLC ones, imo. Except Radahn.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

@@Marco1995Mega no dude dont worry at all, you have some opposing points like I intended haha, and you came across respectful and it was very concise lol. and I completely agree with you bro, I never wanted to criticize the play style some people choose, even if it might have come across that way in the video lol, all are valid and the player has complete freedom to carve the experience as they want, the only point I do stand by though is that I do believe they attempted to bring up the difficulty a bit for everyone, no matter what playstyle, whether or not it was achieved to perfection is another story, ofcourse I cant say for sure what they intended to do exactly, just like with the lore, we can only connect vague dots and form our own conclusions lol, as I mentioned in the video, it must be really hard to balance a game that is so full of information like Elden ring, the dlc is definitely a bit of a mess in some parts, but I dont agree when people say they are ''falling off'' with the dlc, or that the formula is going stale, it was a difficult thing to make, and despite the challenges I think they did a good job. and yeah dude some of the base game bosses are definitely hard, the main bosses that made lots of people hate the dlc though is radahn, gaius and messmer. and personally I had the most fun with the three of them haha.

[@Marco1995Mega]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner Oh, I do actually agree that they wanted to make the DLC the hardest part of ER. I'm not quite sure they succeeded (I still think Miquella's Haligtree is the hardest section), but it certainly isn't easier than the base game either. I didn't mean to imply you thought other styles were less valid, especially since you played co-op with your friend and initially used summons. As I said, I just didn't agree that ER was that different to its predecessors in its broader approach to tackling challenges; almost every game had several deliberate mechanics or tools to make bosses significantly easier. But that's pretty much all of it. Funnily enough, the two Radahns are not only my favorite Souls bosses, but my favorite two bosses of all time. Commander Gaius is super underrated, especially once you realize you should dodge the charge by walking left or right and then rolling directly in the chosen direction once he's close. Not directly or diagonally into him, but to the side. Also, ashes of war and Torrent exist.

[@Zayd-bg1pt]

videos good, and while I enjoyed radahn when I beat him pre patch, there were some things that I didn't like, mainly the cross slash and the fact that the bloodflame attack isn't an attack window. Also, if you go to fight him again, try it without using a hyperarmour AoW and try to use as much of your moveset as you can, so your rolling attacks, jump attacks, charged and uncharged heavies, you'll have a great time

[@richfray5181]

Excellent video. I fought him 8 times with the same build all the way to NG+7. The nerf came out in the middle of my attempts in NG+7, and so I got a real good comparison of before and after patch. I did find him to be a little slower in spots, a little less flash, but overall still a tough fight. My personal measuring stick for good design or bad design is, do I enjoy the fight no matter how many attempts it takes. Am I a little disappointed when I beat the boss, that I don't get to continue the dance. Bosses I love are all bosses I had to fight a lot to beat. Examples for me are Nameless King, Slave Knight Gael, Isshin Sword Saint, Owl Father, and Malenia. All those fights took me a long time to master, and yet I was a little sad beating them, knowing it was over (until Ng+🤣) Promised Consort for me is right in that wheelhouse. Thanks for the work you put into this Patrick!

[@A-Rune-bear]

really, im just happy radahn’s criss cross was nerfed

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

I think that nerf was acceptable, the others though... way too excessive in my opinion.

[@A-Rune-bear]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner i guess i could understand the nerf for miquellas light since other people lagged a lot. but i dont think i had much problems with the other nerfed ones

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

They ruined the boss fight

[@A-Rune-bear]

@@AnthonyDoesKZbin hm? no, why. he’s still as fun as ever

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

@@A-Rune-bear if fun = easy for you then yes

[@Dattobayo]

This is the last bit souls content we're getting in the foreseeable future. Why are people so eager to carve out this void in their existence. I would feel sooooo cheated if the final boss was just "kinda difficult".

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

@@Dattobayo completely agree bro. Any easier would have been unsatisying.

[@nickoliekeyov746]

The online experience for souls games is criminally under-appreciated. IMO everyone should summon, be summoned, invade, and be invaded. It adds extra dimensions to the experience.

[@Liberation_Warrior]

Amazing video bro. I miss old Radahn, bring him back! 😭❤️

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

@@Liberation_Warrior me too bro, me too... i hope the crazy bosses continue in the next game, i wanna be demolished 🤣

[@austin0_bandit05]

Fuck that. He was terrible

[@A-Rune-bear]

fuck that criss cross, im happy

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

Fr bro we got robbed 😢

[@EmeralBookwise]

I firmly disagree. There's nothing new about broken builds in Elden Ring, they've always existed in every FromSoft game and there's never been a DLC before that so aggressively undermined those builds. Dark Souls, Demon's Soul, and Bloodborne were never only about overcoming adversity through raw skill alone. Part of "gitting gud" has also always included learning how to outsmart and exploit the game. No single boss should take HUNDREDS of attempts unless a player is doing some kind of restrictive challenge run. Dozens maybe, but not hundreds. Being hard for the sake of being hard was never supposed to be the point, and I feel like especially among players who started with Elden Ring, they miss the fact that the mantra most fans of FromSoft games would use to describe them used to be, "challenging but fair." The problem with the notion that each game should just keep being harder than the last, is that there is an upper limit to human reflexes. The difference to what can and can't be reacted to can be measured in frames. If each game keeps trying to one up the previous, there inevitably comes a point where even the most talented players will have difficulty keeping up and where more average players will be left behind entirely. To be perfectly honest, if the games are going to try to keep getting harder we are going to start needing difficulty modes. Not an "easy" mode, but rather a baseline "normal" mode that never surpasses what an average player would be capable of and where no boss ever takes more than a couple dozen attempts, vs a "challenge" mode for players who want to push themselves to the utmost extremes and where some bosses might take hundreds of attempts... and before anyone tries to say difficulty modes would be against FromSoft's design principles, I would point to the Demon Bell in Sekiro, or the Covenant of Champions in Dark Souls 2, or heck, even World Tendency in Demon's Soul.

[@thebigdoginthisbitch4733]

It’s the best DLC ever while having the best bosses ever

[@glisteninggames2981]

so challenging but fair ACTUALLY means "challenging but not very hard"

[@koresoteira447]

Most of the complaints about the dlc came from self-imposed rules about how the game should be played. If you utilise all of the tools provided, nothing in the dlc is an unreasonable challenge.

[@nexuskam968]

While I agree with with most of your view, I think bosses will never feel as big of an accomplishments if they have almost unavoidable move casually. If you tune down enemy damage, souls game is a quite basic RPG, but when the damage of random stragglers can kill you in 3 hits, avoiding damage becomes important. And only when combined with 99% of the time dodgable moveset, you can feel that getting hit is your fault. And in turns, when you finally beat the boss, it's an accomplishments that people can feel pride off. Because you had successfully dodge enough of their attacks and find opening to deal damage. If some moves can't be avoided, it's just hoping you don't get the sure hit moves. Where victory will feel like you got get lucky that they didn't spam it too much and defeat just feels like unlikely. Stripping away the player agency. You can argue stacking buffs and summons trivialise the challenge, but elden ring is made to provide options in overcoming challenges. It's just like saying estus flask is a cheat because people have no hit run. You're free to learn to no hit the boss or learn to build and overpowering the boss and everything in between. But having sure hit move simply disallow pure skill expressions and forcing the player to get X amount of health/ dps to avoid it. I would rather they put a penalty when you enter the boss gate, take away X amount of health, flask than to fight a souls boss with sure hit attack. Also while the light spectacle is really fitting lore wise and build up the boss to be even more climatic, it's not a reason to obsecure boss movement as it is the only way to react to their moves reliably

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

I'm just going to complain as hard as I can next time they drop a Souls game so they can nerf as many bosses as I can get them to, if they want to cave in to casuals so bad they should have just made a difficulty option.

[@kunnykuni]

Geat vid, bro ! I'd be interested in your feedback on the previous games after playing Elden Ring, an especially the DLC. I sometimes compare old movesets with the newest ones. To me, it is insane to think that almost every boss in SotA is faster, more aggresive, with longer combos and harder hitting moves than Freya, Genichiro, Gael and Kos. These bosses were at some point considered the hardest and now they seem easy in comparison. Now, while I agree that we became better (which makes the game feel tamer), I disagree with the notion that the games need to get ever harder. It's fine if not all bosses are incredibly hard. Because then, that would mean that Radahn is going to be the next baseline. Do we really want every boss to take 6 hours of learning. To get to SotE, you first need to defeat Mogh, one of the 5 hardest bosses in Elden Ring and clearly not a push over. The fact that people that beat him find the DLC too hard is quite revealing. I also think the learning curve is not properly applied in Elden Ring. Bosses like Messmer, Radahn, Malenia, Midra and Rellana ask you to memorize full-on combos that last for hours, while giving you zero opportunity to heal, causing massive damage, procing crazy statuses (like rot or frenzy) and having HP pool deeper than the ocean. My small pea brain and my poor reflexes cannot take all of that all at once. This, in my opinion, is bad a learning curve. A good learning curve is Freya, or Gael, Maria, or Bayle. They start with a slower, less aggressive, more passive moveset that contains 5 or 6 moves, with at max 5 hits combos. Their windows of opportunities are clear enough that you know when to heal or attack. When you get to phase 2, the combos get longer, the range is increased and there are less opportunities BUT you already know phase 1 so you can manage. This is why I agree with you on Radahn, even though he goes overboard with it (too much HP, too much DMG, Combos a bit too long, BUT nice learnable moveset) While I always loved the achievement of beating dark souls bosses, this is less true with Elden Ring and especially SotE. I feel like the bosses hit too hard and I hit too weak. The fight that are already intense fell exhausting. Some bosses, such as Midra, I beat while in the zone, not really knowing how I did it. If I were to fight them again, I would die, for sure, dozens of times... Maybe more than that. I never felt like that with Dark Souls or Sekiro. When I beat a boss then, I was sure I could do it again with a few tries. When I beat Malenia and Radahn, no excitement dwelled inside me. Instead was a pure sigh of relief. 'It's finally done... Never again..." I thought. If you want to look at a perfect learning curve, look at Bayle. He is a different beast. Bayle is perfect. His moveset is difficult but fair. He has the perfect amount of HP, the perfect number of moves, his combos are 6 hits at most, his phase 2 builds upon his phase 1 in a satisfying way. This boss was pure awesomness.

[@simonkisielewski3327]

dude retrospective? it came out couple of months ago (jokes aside great content lowk)

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

i guess youre right bro its a bit too recent for that word 🤣🤣🤣 still, the past is the past eh XD thank you dude glad you enjoyed it!

[@Nono-ed5ub]

How do you only have 30 subs wtf ??????

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

86 now haha! the video has been doing way better than I expected in all honesty XD

[@Nono-ed5ub]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner can’t wait to see where your channel goes wish you the best of luck 🫶

[@evanbaxter7356]

The complaints are overblown, but im glad they nerfed PCR, hes definitely more fun now while still being hard. I also wish they would go back to having more puzzle bosses since those would often have unique atmosphere and be a good break from mechanically tough fights. Also bosses that serve a more narrative purpose like Sif or Maiden of Asteria

[@victorprati7908]

Dude the way you described the learning curve for PCR and how you must really learn the boss instead of relying on 50% on luck or broken builds in order to win is perfect 👌. Radahn is the ultimate skill check and saying "git gud" couldn't fit any better in this case. The idea of surviving attacks also applies to waterfowl dance since the 2 and 3 flurries are dodge able so there's no need to panic if you take some damage on the first flurry. Another great observation you made is that these games aren't made with the idea of no-hitting or speedrunning in mind. I've come across people complaining about how the open world take of Elden Ring leads to very long and boring speedruns like wth are you implying that devs should take into account how the game performs on unintended self imposed challenges? get outta here! 😂

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

Thanks so much man! I do really stand by the fact that these games were not made with hitless runs in mind, out of all the points I made, I think that one is the strongest haha, I'm just glad that there are other people that enjoyed it as much as me and hope that they continue in a similar direction with design, not everything is perfect for sure, but it is a masterpiece in its own way, and has some of my top moments in all souls games, and radahn is included in that. thanks for watching my video dude I'm stoked you enjoyed it!

[@axxessdenied]

Elden Ring is my first "souls" game. I'm a little disappointed that they nerfed Radahn in the DLC. I just started the DLC I wont get to experience pre-nerf Radahn. Hopefully modders will take care of that.

[@A-Rune-bear]

dude, you’ll really hate the criss cross. it was inconsistent. if you play pre nerf radahn, you’ll not like it better than post nerf

[@JoseViktor4099]

I would recommend you Inner Radanh mod if you want a harder experience. But unless you enjoy visual Clutter, inflated hitboxes, and a unavoidable attack that even to Ongbal, one of the best ER player, took him a week to consistently avoid by normal methods, Is not something I can recommend.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

dont worry dude, from what ive heard the fight is still pretty tough, so you will get a good experience out of it, and actually there is already a mod made for pre nerf radahn, so you can probably try it aswell and compare the two yourself. it is disappointed that they nerfed him as hard as they did, from what ive seen he is quite a bit slower, but lots of people still enjoyed it, even if they also enjoyed him pre-nerf.

[@axxessdenied]

@@A-Rune-bear I'd like to see for myself either way.

[@A-Rune-bear]

@@axxessdenied alright then, if you have elden ring on pc. then there’s already many mods for pre nerf radahn, just make sure to hug his left side to “consistently” dodge the criss cross

[@oFcAsHeEp]

I agree with your theory about the difficulty. But I also understand the complaints. ER attracted a whole new crowd of "casual gamers", due to its popularity, and I think most of the difficulty complaints come from them. Most people aren't willing to die 100 times to a boss (god knows I did), or spend hours getting gobsmacked. Most people just want their dopamine hit, a victory, and then they complain. I wouln't say I'm good at souls games, but I beat the original game and dlc on my own, so it's not that horrible. But I did sink over 400 hours in the base game...

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

yeah dude I think you are right, lots of the complaints probably do come from a lot of the more casual players, but there are also a lot of people that really love souls games that think the direction of SOTE is a bad sign of things to come, lots of people overly analysing the stats, hit boxes and long combo's as ''bad'' or ''lazy'' design, they basically forget to just try to enjoy the challenge lol, again I know not everything can be perfect, but the think the general attitude towards the design in SOTE is a sign of GOOD things to come haha, Personally, I want to fight a final boss more than 200 times, thats not for everyone I know lol, but there is a method to the madness here. Thanks for your comment dude I appreciate your thoughts!

[@Ghorda9]

@@DeepDiveCosyCorner the people that complain are stuck with a DS3 mindset thinking that dodge/R1 is the solution to everything and never actually think about the fights

[@MaidenlessScrub]

I don't really think so. The loudest crowd consists of those who claim themselves as "souls veteran". They were the ones who made up rules like all boss should be beatable at level 1 hitless bla bla bla. They are also the ones who have the egos accumulated from previous and easier games of the series got to their heads as they think they know how these bosses should be designed.

[@vandalic8566]

all bosses should be beatable at rl1 hitless though. ​@@MaidenlessScrub

[@vandalic8566]

​@@Ghorda9no lol. elden ring fans also didn't like radahn

[@Dragun9389]

nice

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

thank you! 😎😄

[@morepower6800]

Radahn is one of the best characters that fromsoftware ever made and fighting him again was nothing short of amazing and an absolute honour however the nerf that he got was unjustifiable and the only thing that he really needed was for the cross attack to be fixed and giving him one or two windows max but making him less aggressive, more slower, doing less damage and less saitama damage is completely unacceptable and i blame the constant over exaggeration from the cry babies for yet again doing him dirty

[@Sprn3t]

I agree with many of your point, i think fromsoft's Elden ring has become so massive that the dev couldn't really take into account all the impossible OP strats that people come up with and this has made designing bosses more difficult than before. My main complain about the fight is the fact that player's agency and diversity was lost. Radahn's punishing window is quite small that I can't really use my weapon ash of war anymore unless i sacrifice being hit after (and possibly die). Sure, I could just abandon all this and just light hit him till he die. But why should I? As you also agree, the appeal of these game is partly that each of us has to overcome adversity by our own way. Invalidating many builds' window to use the very thing that make them special reduces this fight into a bottle neck, the one way you can fight to win. I beat him in the end, after conpletely respecting my stats and using different weapon. I still enjoyed part of it (phase 1 is very enjoyable), but I felt sad that my roleplay was nomore, that the character I play failed, and someone else defeat him instead. With that said, I wanna say that your video is awesome, and a great counter balance to lots of complains I ve heard out there. Keep it up man!

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

thank you so much dude! even if you dont 100% agree with all of my points I appreciate that you still enjoyed the video, and yeah I understand needing to change your top ash of war's could feel a bit annoying, my only rebuttal for that is that has sort of been the case with many other bosses in Elden ring and also in past souls games, some ash's of war are only 100% viable in certain contexts, some are only really useful when taking out group enemies, or with the slower bosses, or in PVP, I get that it could be kind of annoying if an AOW you've been using has been viable for every other situation except radahn, but personally I enjoyed that, I used the blind spot AOW through my whole playthrough, but during the fight I realised that I couldn't really use it against radahn, he just kept catching me with his next attack after I used it, so I settled on the crag blade AOW just to give my weapon an attack boost, and then I just focused purely on dodging and learning his moves, which was a nice change up from what I got used to with the rest of the bosses, personally I enjoyed the moment of ''okay, looks like this isnt going to work, I need to think about this differently''. I just found that experience really interesting and stimulating, its interesting how everyone has a different opinion on this fight huh! 🤣 with all that said dude, thank you for watching the video!

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

That's the case with very many bosses, not just Radahn. You feeling the need to respec because you want to use your heavy R2 or change your favorite ash of war shouldn't mean that the developers made a bad fight. The developers of this game even in the base game Maelnia fight made very clear that they have no problem brick walling certain players and just making it easier for others, meta-bleed builds I'm looking at you

[@itsame7491]

​@@AnthonyDoesKZbinbro wht the hell, radhan pre patch I Completely understand but every other boss has plenty of opportunities for jump, charge and heavy atks. And malenia, thts like the most customizable fights in the game. There are so many punishes. And builds, she will adjust to your builds, if you have a fast weapon she will be fast, if you have a slow weapon she will be slow. Like I understand if you say this stuff abt gargoyles or godskin duo but malenia, like thts the best fight in the game

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

@itsame7491 pre nerf Radahn was a much better fight than Malenia, for me and for many others. More difficult too, of course. But Miyazaki doesn't care about the opinions of fans...

[@itsame7491]

@@AnthonyDoesKZbin I understand, it's his game though, he can do whatever he wants with it. Although if the post patch radhan was how the fight was intended to be thn thts how it should have been shipped. Although like come on, the the blinding light effects the kill the FPS and cross slash were just kinda absurd.

[@bluesundu]

I think Elden Ring Shadow of the Erdtree is the only souls game where the final boss is actually the hardest

[@jamesbell1186]

1. Consort Radahn is not the final boss of Elden Ring 2. If you mean that the final boss of the DLC is the hardest in the game, then that's also wrong as Manus and Orphan of Kos are agreed to be the hardest bosses in their respective games as well.

[@vandalic8566]

​@@jamesbell1186difficulty is subjective.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

yeah I defo agree dude, he definitely felt like a ''final boss'' lol. i really just love what they created with radahn, imposing as f*ck XD

[@differentbutsimilar7893]

See, to me these games aren't nessesarily designed with overcoming adversity as a theme in mind. Consider the fatalistic endings for all of the different storylines across the games. So often, all roads lead to the end with Miyazaki games. Even Elden Ring, with all of its different ending options, basically has you selecting which way to break an already shattered world in what may still be a dying universe. You as a tarnished are basically timeless, but by the end there is still enough uncertainty to make it unclear if all time can save the LB. Death is not something you can overcome in these games. It's a part of the experience, and over the years I've almost come to see it as more of a storytelling choice. The ways bosses move, and bring that certainty back to the player, is sort of a part of their personalities - something that gets into the dna of the world. I believe that is the first step to recovery from a syndrome that I am seeing fit to call "The Sweats." Abandon all hope. The games have always been challenging, this is true. But I'd argue they've actually always been more bark than bite. I remember the git gud thing being somewhat facetious. The games seem overly punishing at first because the design language heavily utilizes obfuscation. Once you understand the language of a particular one, layers of that opacity drop off and you kind of just see different potential ways of exploring problems. It becomes less about conquering the land and more about learning and discovering it. I've beaten Elden Ring a solid dozen times now and am still learning different ways of dealing with different things, and entirely different things that can happen! To me these games are all about mystery and problem solving. They aren't hard only so that you can feel the satisfaction of beating the hard thing. The ways that they are hard, are all about making learning challenges into fun and creative endeavors. I think a lot of the frustration with Elden Ring is bleed over from everyone being used to open worlds that basically send players on curated tracks through their world space, whereas Elden Ring isn't really about ticking boxes, but making your own sense of what to do and getting lost in the mystery of moment to moment. It's like that split in vacation strats among people. Some like them spontaneous and unplanned. Others do the Disney-style thing where every hour of every day of a whole week, is charted out. Disney-style won't work with Soulsborne. Their whole M.O. is hiding not only story, but gameplay information in order to bait out the mystery and get you to continually learn as you play. Whenever you're stuck, there is always an answer. There have always been many. And the question is never if you are good enough, just if you understand what's in front of you well enough to deal with it.

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

Miyazaki said himself he may have "gone too far" with the difficulty in this game and Fromsoft in general have said that ever since Sekiro they were pushing the studio in a new direction with a FOCUS on difficulty.

[@abohussain-souls75]

I fully agree with you also the cross slash IS dodgeable i dodged it 3 times in a row live on stream (it's in the last video i made about Radahn) but people just want to put the blame on something other than themselves when they're being stomped over and over and it's really sad how fromsoft actually listened to them

[@spectrumsprint]

i liked a majority of the video but i do want to comment on the point you made during the consort radahn section, that we shouldn't expect fromsoft to design bosses by our standards. first i want to clarify that i do think the cross slash was consistently dodgable even pre-nerf, it just needed a certain positioning to pull it off. but if it really wasn't consistently dodgable then i really would take an issue with the design, because the thing is that we've only come to set certain standards for fromsoft's work because of what they've done in the past. i think we need to consider why people even set this standard for fromsoft in the first place; if fromsoft never designed fair bosses that could be no-hitted under the harshest restrictions, no one would be expecting them to make fair bosses in this dlc. but the thing is that for over a decade almost all of their bosses have had mass appeal to challenge runners (myself included) who love to learn the intricacies of their bosses. if consort radahn's cross slash really wasn't possible to dodge consistently, then i do actually believe this would be a glaring issue because it would be a departure from what we've grown to love and expect from fromsoft to elaborate on my point, i want to cite a quote from miyazaki on how he intends to elicit satisfaction through fairness in difficulty: "In order to produce the satisfaction of comprehension, there first needs to be the process of comprehension. Furthermore, the overarching idea at hand needs to be something that is actually comprehensible." i think this really applies to all of the most beloved fromsoft bosses, we love them because we're able to fully understand a boss's arsenal and learn the counters. the satisfaction doesn't just come from the relief of overcoming a wall of difficulty, it comes in the moment-to-moment satisfaction too. if the boss design puts up a challenge that players cant understand a counter to, that they begin to feel as if they have no agency in overcoming this challenge, it really hurts the level of satisfaction i and many other players feel, because i don't feel like im going to succeed because i understood the fight. ill just feel like i understood it enough to get lucky, which really isn't what the core philosophy has always been. i disagree that the goal of souls boss design is simply to survive by whatever means necessary, i believe it's supposed to give you moment-to-moment satisfaction along the path to survival as well, which is best accomplished by giving the player a feeling of improvement as they come to comprehend the boss on a deeper level (btw i just want to clarify radahn is also my personal favorite boss, but if he really was unfair i would have a major issue with that. i only like him because i do think he's a fair boss who offers that satisfaction of understanding and 100% mastering the fight)

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

I'm just going to complain as hard as I can next time they drop a tough boss so that they can find their middle ground easier, if they start making more bosses with waterfowls and cross slashes and lightshow flashbangs I'll just tell them to nerf it all into the ground, and they probably might.

[@Random_Stuff140]

Glazing is insane. Where is the dark souls and sekiro level of bosses? Only messmer was fun for me in this dlc. And try to harden the fight by adding that twinks hair not to allow players to see anything and holy beams attacks are well-designed for you? And the outro words "we just have to try to learn to enjoy this" is pure insanity

[@Random_Stuff140]

GOOD BOSSES DOES NOT NEED TO BE HARD

[@thebigdoginthisbitch4733]

Elden Ring bosses are far better than

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

@@Random_Stuff140 i mean.. they kinda do need to be hard lol, i dont enjoy bosses that arent hard personally. And btw man, no need to get upset, this whole video is merely a suggestion, not a fact, its your experience at the end of the day, and also.. its a video game. Not worth fighting over.

[@AnthonyDoesYouTube]

Just seems to me like you don't enjoy Elden Ring, and that's okay. But that's not an issue with the DLC or the bosses. The takes I have heard defending the nerf are absolutely ridiculous. People saying a boss shouldn't take more than 25 tries, others saying they "can't be bothered to spend hours grinding a boss", people crying "Radahn just wasn't fun for me it was a chore" MY BROTHER IN CHRIST THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO SHOULD *NOT* BE PLAYING FROMSOFT GAMES. TAKE THE HINT AND LEAVE THE COMMUNITY IF YOU ARE NOT HAPPY WITH THE RADAHN NERF, They already bent their back over backwards for you complainers already. And ik it really might sound like it but this is not me being "elitist" or a "gatekeeper" just because I enjoyed one of their boss fights...

[@ferbsol2334]

No

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

ok

[@nulls5408]

Being from the ds2 community, neither me nor anyone I know from that group of the community had any problems with the dlc, being rather positive about things. Since we know just how malicious fromsoft can be if they want to be. Most complaints are either from newcomers who aren’t use to it, or ds3 entitlement - thinking that just because they beat one game means that they don’t have to “git gud” anymore. And it’s the game’s fault for them dying smh.

[@josephbulkin9222]

Maybe you should have used a shield.

[@vandalic8566]

let people play how they want. that's the point of these games.

[@josephbulkin9222]

@@vandalic8566 But he talked about how much he struggled. Every starting class in the game starts with a shield(minus the Wretch), so the only way he could be playing without it is if he took it off. I never took off my shield, because I am terrible at dodging, and have been since I played Dark Souls. That's what the shield is for, so you don't have to dodge everything.

[@vandalic8566]

@@josephbulkin9222 that's true, shield is one way of going about it. or he could dodge, whichever he sees fit.

[@BBQcheese]

I have a ton of issues with most ER videos and I constantly get called a fanboy for pointing out where people's points don't hold up to scrutiny when they're criticizing the game. I wish some of those people were here now because I think this video is equally flawed in the other direction. You said you need to master Radahn to beat him, provably false. There's endless clips across the Internet of people shield poking him to death. It's incredibly brain dead and completely trivializes the encounter. This is just one of the MANY ways you can trivialize the fight. Second, you said most of your deaths came from 'X slash clipping you pushing you into the light pillars and not being able to see/understand his next attack' 👆 This is NOT what these games are about. When you die/get hit you should understand exactly what you did wrong and how to correct it. They are about learning through failure and this is from the creators mouth. There's a reason Fromsoft patched out the frame trap... It has NEVER about difficulty at all costs... Which is why the patch was made. This argument that I keep seeing people parroting that 'these games aren't designed to be hitless' while generically true is largely nonsense. It is a natural consequence of a well designed and balanced encounter in a game with limited health and finite healing. All damage should be avoidable or you end up in situations where the player is out of heals, low on health and about to secure victory when the boss pulls out their unavoidable frame trap and RNG decides that they get to lose this time. Most players don't find this satisfying and it can rob players of those memorable moments where they are able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. The fight is riddled with inconsistencies some of which were addressed with the patch and others not. Furthermore, it's a fight that is almost entirely deviod of all the things that make ER combat excel. You stick to his knee, roll left and punish. It's pretty restrictive and allows for very little skill expression. Go check out Nasu's latest upload if you haven't already as he highlights every issue with the encounter from poor hitboxes, to his poise, AI issues and his general moveset. Excellent watch. Look, I've done some crazy shit in these games, particularly for a console player. I have 15+ minute long perfect hitless boss wins at RL1+0 no anything. I've no hit the game, I likely have more time just challenge running ER alone than most people have in the entire series. I'm clearly not a player who's averse to a challenge. I'm not saying this as a flex but as someone who loves a challenge and has a fairly rigorous understanding of the games combat mechanics and bosses. However, when that challenge comes from inconsistencies, unfairness and boring gameplay I lose interest. PCR was an atrociously bad boss before the patch, he's now a tolerable C tier fight that has almost no room for player expression and still has a lot of issues. There's a lot of other issues with the video as well, like claiming the DLC bosses have longer combos and less punish windows than the base game... They don't. That is nonsense and most of them are actually quite a bit more simplistic than base game fights. Idk, the video is well made but i just think your points are terrible. No offense.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

okay dude, listen lol, this is my experience, this is my perspective, I can see the sort of points that I made are ones that irritate you, thats fine, passion is good, but the same way many people have been talking for 2 months about how terrible the fight is and how poorly it is designed, this is my counter argument, yours is not objective, it is a poor fight... for you. but I enjoyed the experience more than any other fight in Elden ring, I listed my reasons why, and my perspective on from-software as a whole. and that experience isnt false, it was real for me, just like yours was real for you, but I'm not going to tell you that you are incorrect for not enjoying it, and try to ''debunk''' you on your reasons why, I offered an alternate way of looking at it, because its interesting, thats all, I liked the larger hit boxes, I liked his speed, I liked his golden light, I felt neutral about his cross slash, I only mentioned it because more people were hating on it than I expected, I personally dont mind tanking some damage during fights, I hardly notice it in the chaos of things, anyway, you are entitled to hoping that from-software stray from this sort of design approach in the future, and many others, including me, will hope that they double down on it. its as simple as that my guy. I appreciate you watching the whole video anyway and sharing your thoughts, some of your choice of wording kinda stings though lol, but anyway, thank you.

[@BBQcheese]

​@@DeepDiveCosyCorner I didn't mean to be offensive, nor imply my opinion is fact. Sorry if it seemed that way. I just tend to speak in a matter of fact way and try to cut to the point it probably comes off as rude in a comment. If you have time let me know what part you took offense to and how I could rephrase it to sound more cordial. Again, like whatever you want, I just find your arguments wholly unconvincing and harmful to the things that I value in the series as a long time fan. If you're hoping Fromsoft doubles down on things like unpolished encounters and unavoidable attacks that is fine but you're asking for them to alter the very thing that set them apart from everyone else, imo. There's a million games where you can hit trade enemies down there's very few with this type of enemy driven combat with crisp and tight design. In fact the only one that is in the same league is Lies of P. Furthermore, you're hoping for something they don't want to make and doesn't align with their vision. Contrary to what people claim they did not patch Radahn because people were complaining. People have complained about their games for a long time, people complained just as much if not more about Malenia yet WFD remains unchanged (this is because it is consistently avoidable by the base tools available to every player in their base kit). They were not happy with the product and altered it, simple as that. So I wouldn't count on them doubling down on that type of design. It was almost certainly unintended and the product of rushed development and this is evidenced by the numerous other aspects of the encounter (and others within the dlc) that lack the degree of polish the base game and their provides DLC's have all shared. Again, sorry if I came off as rude not my intention but I find this argument that things like bad hitboxes/frame traps/poor AI etc or what could largely just be referred to as jank are good inclusions because it raises the difficulty in a series where difficulty was never the point to begin with to largely absurd. I mean honestly, what is the point in even having an animation at all if the hitbox doesn't match the visual representation on screen? Seriously I'm asking... Obviously, I can sit there and memorize when I need to press circle to avoid damage but how is that even remotely engaging? If we're at the point of defending every bit of nonsense Fromsoft does then the writing is on the wall for the decline of the series. I've been around the series a long time, I remember when everyone complained about DS2's janky hitboxes and now there's a significant portion of the community actively defending jank.

[@DeepDiveCosyCorner]

@@BBQcheese god damn.. I wrote a whole reply but it deleted itself somehow.. pretty pissed right now lol. anyway, no dude its okay, you didnt come across as offensive in your actual points, the only part I found a bit harsh was you saying my points are terrible, I'm not claiming to be an expert in combat mechanics, or not even an expert content creator lol, this is my first video essay type video and I definitely dont think I hone my ideas to perfection before I say them, I am 100% ready for backlash though and I actually did learn something from your comments, if anything this is just to start a discussion, which it obviously has lol, I guess I'm just a bit vulnerable because I myself wasnt too sure if my points were 100% solid before releasing this video, I was just speaking from the gut, and trying to show some appreciation for this DLC, to contrast a lot of the complaints it has received, I also by no means I'm saying this is a perfect dlc either, you are more than entitled to see it as a general failure on from-software's part, there are many glaring issues such as item placements, some redundant level design and over explaining of things that should have been more mysterious, some lore inconsistencies, lots of things have taken a few steps down the ladder of souls perfection, BUT, some things in my opinion have shot up too, it had some of my favourite moments in souls games, the Bayle quest, the shadow keep, with all three branching bosses, some of the lore, the Leda fight before radahn, and radahn himself, I'm not even claiming that the cross slash attack is good design in and of itself, but I think the fight as a whole was innovative, thinking you learnt the 1st phase well enough, only to need to re-learn it, but under different circumstances, with decreased visibility, that idea, is amazing in my opinion, and as soon as I realised that was what I had to do, I just thought the fight was amazing, and I wanted to weigh in on people saying the fight as a whole is terrible, and a sign that from-software is falling off, it was a good point that you made that they didnt nerf WFD but they did nerf the cross - slash, you could actually argue that they only nerfed it because radahn is mandatory, and malenia is not, but your point still stands, and I dont know enough to refute it, I and many other players didnt analysis the boss fights from a developer's point of view, breaking down every mechanic and hit box, I just had fun, and I did find the fight incredibly engaging, probably the most pivotal moment ive ever had in a souls game, hell, I loved it so much I made my first gaming related video about it lol. anyway dude you obviously know your shit, but regardless, there is a lot to admire about SOTE, the perfect way to describe it is a flawed masterpiece, but my feelings for it and its bosses are more positive than negative, not because of flawless execution, but because of the ideas that they tried, and the efforts made to bring back some excitement to a game that has lost a bit of its vigor, I enjoyed it for that fact alone, I definitely dont mean to defend jank, but I am defending creativity, and steps forward in innovation, regardless of whether everyone agrees on whether they accomplished that or not. also, you were cordial enough dude haha no worries, I'm enjoying this comment section, its a lot of fun.

[@BBQcheese]

​@@DeepDiveCosyCorner Hey thanks for the reply and you're absolutely right I shouldn't have said your arguments are terrible I should have just said I didn't find them convincing. Trust me, I totally get where you're coming from as I actually quite like Elden Beast. Even some of the most hated aspects of the fight I find incredibly engaging. For example, I actually find dodging Elden Stars to be exhilarating particularly when he stacks it with other hard to avoid attacks. Pulling off a perfect hitless kill on the boss feels incredible to me especially when he gives me particularly bad RNG. All that being said though I would never argue that the boss is well designed, Elden Stars alone is an awful attack that should have been adjusted in some way. The method by which I avoid it is completely unintuitive and requires extreme positioning and execution that is well out of the realm of what I would consider reasonable for an average player. It's also almost certainly an unintended exploit... That says nothing about some of his other attacks like waves of gold or the flying needles. I'm all for creativity myself and I think overall the DLC does a fairly good job. I just think it lacks polish in some areas. I also don't dislike it at all, it's like 9/10 imo. My second favorite DLC after the old hunters. Lastly, I HARD agree that there was way too much complaining about the difficulty and overall the DLC is fine in that regard. Bosses like Rellana and Messmer are asking the best Fromsoft has ever done imo. My issues with Radahn aren't really related to difficulty as much as inconsistencies. I feel like we should be able to be critical of bosses even when we enjoy them. As I was above with EB, and be able to point out areas where they succeed and fail. Obviously it's highly subjective but I have a hard time understanding how things like unavoidable damage are excusable. Also, I understand it probably feels shitty to put a bunch of work into your first video and have someone shit on it so I'm sorry. That wasn't my intention. The video is quite well made I just didn't find the arguments compelling is all. As usual with these things though I think we agree more than we disagree. Keep making videos you'll pop off, the community LOVES their video essays 😉