The SPIRALING State of Animation in 2024

[@TheAnimeTea]

If anyone has information on projects or causes that help animators please post them! Especially for countries like South Korea, China, the Philippines and Canada as these countries are often used for outsourcing but are also overwhelmed and underpaid but harder to find information for. Here are some ways to help American and Japanese Animators: Help Fund The Animator Dormitory for 2024: gogetfunding.com/animator-dorm-2024/ Stand With Animation: www.tagnegotiations2024.com/

[@weebcrit]

thank you for sharing resources!

[@alicebissonnet457]

French story artist here: France is an another big outsourcing country for US projects and we are struggling a lot , especially since all the big streaming corps got their nose into the game.

[@tiffany-chan1235]

if you want to help the anime industry, please support the animation dormitory’s current 2024 campaign! They really need it right now!

[@Havanah-ov4yt]

Animation dormitory?

[@moxxibekk]

Came here to say this!

[@komerihimura]

Is animation dormitory the same as the animation guild?

[@camwoz5181]

Funny thing is, Crunchroll started off as an illegal site to stream fansub anime for free. Fan translations is one thing since the fans were mostly translating without compensation, and only because there were not many overseas stories being translated into the language of their respective countries. Crunchyroll came along, took that work from the fansubers (not to mention the anime studios) and flooded their site with ads to make a profit. Then crunchy roll presented it as "business model" to somehow becoming partners with overseas studios. So this company not only stole the translations made by fans and anime companies to make a profit to begin with, but now they are actively trying to ruin the livelihoods of people that helped them legitimize their business model. Crunchyroll is a "tech company" first and foremost meaning they are no different than the ghouls at the AI companies. Not surprising.

[@derekstepan3888]

Supporting funimation also made little sense. They mistranslated and added their own perspectives on shows since the 90s. And talking about unions, they tried to destroy the vice acting unions in the 90s by moving away from ocean studios with dragon ball. Since then, most dubs are non unionized. Before the switch most if not all dubs were union.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

@@derekstepan3888 I think Crunchyroll also has absorbed Funimation’s rather unethical practices too. But one thing that I can actually tell you bravely is that Harmony Gold is much worse than both Funi and Crunchy, which are pretty bad in their own right. HG made misinterpreted, chopped up dubs and Frankenstein style translations (all of them are alright in their own way) for decades. It’s also mostly responsible for the legal decades long Macross and Robotech fiasco.

[@mic_at_nite]

This is not exclusive to either AI or tech companies lol. What you just described is just good ole neoliberal capitalism baby. Shit fucking sucks

[@Thewritingelf]

I honestly didn't know this. Wow, never getting anything from there again

[@kougamecs3876]

​@@Thewritingelfbefore crunchyroll, Cartoon Network/Toonami was the beloved anime hub before it fell to it's death in 2008 and that filthy Crunchy came along...

[@jessip8654]

Canadian animator here. It's been a rough year. I and all my coworker friends lost our jobs and were unemployed for over a year. We couldn't even find temp retail or fast food jobs since the Canadian job market is just straight in the toilet. I don't know where I'd be if I hadn't had my spouse (and EI) keeping us afloat. I do have good news, which is that animation here is picking up again. Almost all of us have animation jobs again. Seems AI isn't working as well as they hoped, and Netflix and some other streaming services had some massive animated hits on their hands, which reminded them how important cartoons are to their catalogue. There's still room for improvement, but it's sure nice to be working again!

[@cheesydawg371]

Hopefully AI (at least how it's utilized here) will be stay as nothing but a brief scare. We do still have animators in America and elsewhere to support however.

[@espelhodasconstelacoes]

God bless ya and Jesus loves ya man, I hope y'all find a safe way out of this hard season!

[@doodlegame8704]

@@cheesydawg371As if. Without regulation and fundamental changes in how our economies function, AI will come back eventually and take hundreds of millions of jobs in short order, without any plan for the people who lose their livelihoods as a result. If we let AI stew in the background, it will get worse. The best way to handle an existential threat is to put it out in the open and not forget how dangerous it can be.

[@cheesydawg371]

@@doodlegame8704 good point. I am also an advocate of Communist uprising.

[@TheAnimeTea]

I’m glad to hear you’re doing better and have work, thanks for sharing your experience!

[@edamamame4U]

As a prior translator and current translation project manager and linguist, I am so disgusted at Crunchy Roll and other anime production companies for underpaying their translators, sub-titlers, and localizers. Your translators are truly the life blood of bringing anime and manga to an international audience. Literary translation is an art and incredibly difficult skill as you have to capture culture elements and also try to replicate the style and tone of the original writer(s). It speaks volumes about how translators are viewed, when large companies believe they can cut corners and turn to machine translation of literary text to cut costs and time.

[@mic_at_nite]

It really doesnt speak volumes to me, you just described capitalism lol. This happens decade after decade, industry after industry. Its the only reason we keep wanting to advance tech so far, the ones with all the money dont want to pay anyone other than themselves and their shareholders. Cutting costs is just capitalism. Capitalism cares way more about profit than people, so much so that they will make zombies out of their business in the hopes of becoming profitable again. I hate money and this all stems from it and capitalism. I dont think things should be profitable. And nothing would operate on a loss if there was no money involved and only manpower devoted to an idea. But perhaps when all the workers are gone and machines are the only ones providing value we'll finally tackle the immense poverty that would cause by having nearly no one get payed anything and so we can easier switch to a moneyless economy, but I prefer not to wait that long and have people go through unnecessary struggle/suffering. What this does speak to though is how undemocratic our workplaces are and how undemocratic countries like America really are, the fact that you have so little say that you're just part of the cost cutting should make you want more than a mere union, though unions are a great start. I just dont like when unions fail to combat employer dicatorships and for-profit industries and thus continue to allow workers to be exploited for that profit and continue to have to negotiate with way less power than they should have as workers.

[@ExpertContrarian]

Boo hoo. What will we do without localizers butchering writing?!

[@stephanos6128]

​@@ExpertContrarian you really tnink AI is gonna understand the delicate art that is translating WITHOUT localizations? it cant process 2 plus 2 its gonna LEARN to localize and butcher anyway you friggin idiot weeb

[@m.a.k.dynasty4504]

​@@ExpertContrarian You get AI butchering the writing even more instead. Fantastic payoff.

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@m.a.k.dynasty4504 AI will be leagues better soon so that’s indeed a yay!

[@Xheart817]

Thank you for not just bringing up the American industry of animation but anime when most people say the industry is dying they don’t mention the Japanese industry mostly because they have a biased take saying “it’s more than for kids there” and completely ignores the fact that the Japanese industry is completely overworked

[@Scarshadow666]

Very true! It also doesn't help that most people shrug off animators getting overworked/mistreated because - sadly, like most audiences/consumers for art/media tend to be - are more interested in the final product rather than actually caring for the artists/animators and what processes go into what they make and how the industry in general works. Imo, even if people aren't into creating art/media themselves, there should be wider/better education about how art is made and how buisnesses in art industries are run - because with that education, than people would have better empathy for so many overworked animators/artists.

[@hollowedboi5937]

Still insane to me that Zom100 and Inside Out 2 has shown the negative affects of working at Animation and yet enacted that same practice onto their animators and staff…

[@TheChaoticAsexual]

As a blue lock fan, I’m currently extremely disappointed by the animation quality of season two so far; however, my disappointment is not at all directed to the animators, but instead to the execs, investors, and people in power who are not hiring more people to work on this project and not giving the animators the time they need to properly work on this project (while also getting the rest they need)

[@bobokitty123]

This year has been absolute garbage for the industry, so thank you for highlighting the issues that we've been facing ❤

[@ajnsztajnpoppymain4life881]

I want to live in the timeline where Infinity Train got to season 8 💔

[@nosuperwoman79]

As usual, a very concise recitation of what continues to be a prescient topic that continues to affect many different industries (the advent of unchecked AI, corporate greed, et cetera). While it is disheartening to see how grim things are getting for the creatives who bring us the anime and manga that we love (clearly wouldn't be consuming anime content on youtube otherwise), I do like your message at the end about not feeling totally helpless. Unfortunately, history has shown that it takes a long time for labor movements to make any headway, and I do think the fact that anime has become so popular in the US gives us some leverage over changing things. Of course, we have to start in our own backyard with wrangling crunchyroll, which, admittedly, is a monumental undertaking. CR is doing everything it can to race to the bottom including its strong antiunion bend for animators, voice actors, and even other staff (for example, getting rid of their commenting so they don't have to employ moderators). Would really love it if they didn't have such a monopoly over content distribution in the US. Thank you for shouting out The Anime Dormitory! I'm definitely going to check out their work.

[@ladygrey4113]

Wish I could find it again but there was a channel that put out a video about the state of Japanese animation and named a studio that just put out an anime that was allegedly better pay and instead of finishing the anime on a weekly schedule was complete before broadcast but I can’t find it! The logo was fairly colorful and had a rainbow I think

[@jessip8654]

Kyoto animation works like that. Unfortunately they had a devastating setback when an arsonist burned their studio down, but they've been steadily rebuilding themselves.

[@derekstepan3888]

Ghibli, I heard, also have proper employment standards similar to Kyoto animation.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

@@derekstepan3888 dunno if UFOTable is similar to Ghibli or Kyoto Animation?

[@Henbot]

As someone who got a degree with animation and game design. It makes sense all these problems, it takes a lot of work and of course the companies don’t want to pay overtime nor could they afford without bigger budgets so corners be cut. It’s a challenge to get the right model because animators will work hard to get stuff done, got that perfectionist bug, cus the love is in the creation so they will run overtime and companies can exploit the passion but then don’t want to actually pay them . Union stuff is a problem as well as committees though more animations have moved into a seasonal approach for animations which I think will be the way forward. AI is a threat because as we see with how stingy companies are to workers we know they care not about quality and so AI would be used even if it had errors. What it depends is how those are received. Likely we will end up with a balkanised independent animation and then a machine running mainstream animation studios that people get some experience in and drop out and just this sort of rotation of talent. If anything isn’t changed, AI when it reaches a point of competency will get picked up over real people and if audiences don’t reject it they will just move on with it and animators will be independent and maybe hired for big projects

[@mistersureshot1749]

Hey I also degree in animation and game design, just cause I have dream project Ive been wanting to make since I was in like high school, but im just curious, because how crummy both industires are at the moment, what are you up to now?

[@ExpertContrarian]

What’s wrong with AI having errors? People mess up all the time. If people don’t want to get replaced then they should make themselves more valuable

[@stephanos6128]

​​​​@@ExpertContrarian kinda ruins the idea of AI if it has the ability to make errors innit? ai so far has proven to be yet another scam by the techy boys who got nothing but spew hot air to some guy who sees nothin but dollar signs. bet theyre not even the ones who made the code(s). also to say a human (or any living thing) needs to "make themselves valuable" is a sure fire way to roll into a dangerous downward spiral of a mindset.

[@stephanos6128]

​@@ExpertContrarianyoutube will delete my comment while the lamest weeb ever says some whacko shit ablut humans having any required value, surely a normal thing to say and definitely wont spiral into some unhealthy mindset. youre earliest comment suggetsed human translators Butcher Things with Localizations, implying AI can essentially do better and not butcher. yet here you are stating AI is allowed to have errors and thats ok? you sound more like a corporate sheep rn dude. hypocritical to your name at worst.

[@ExpertContrarian]

@ no, it doesn’t. Expecting things to be perfect doesn’t make any sense. No, expecting people to be worth the money being paid is not dangerous

[@LVC85costa]

Sometimes we just have to P.U.S.H. Pirate Until Something Happens

[@lewa3910]

That mainly applies to the localisation companies like crunchyroll treating customers like shit. Should also support animation unions and other workers like translators trying to unionise so that they all get a better wage for making all the shows we watch and us being able to enjoy them in our native language

[@reverseshin]

@@lewa3910 also another reason why piracy happens is because the money from your purchase of the show or movie doesn’t go to the animators or artists at all (unless if it’s a Toei, Ufotable or Kyoto Ani Product).

[@Aluran]

Ngl this is a weird timeline lol crunchyroll used to be the under dog now they doing crazy stuff

[@scythe9734]

They're LITERALLY a piracy site 😂😂😂

[@RWR785]

@@scythe9734 crunchy roll is that cartoon character that greedy character the Mc is forced to save over and over again

[@rurouni5580]

Just wanted to say how much I always appreciate your analysis in your videos- even on a topic that I've seen so many folks give takes on (both on KZbin and other social media platforms), your perspective is always so well thought-out and well articulated. Your research for this video in particular is fantastic!

[@TheAnimeTea]

Thank you for watching and I’m glad to provide some insight on this topic, it’s really important to me

[@derekstepan3888]

With those hours, I don't understand why they don't let their workers work from home. As someone who is in the industry and works from home, it is a godsend if you need to work ot. I see however, that the working industries at least in Canada are all suffering and people are all having a hard time getting work, not just animation, and a lot of it has to do with AI.

[@reverseshin]

Production Committees are Largely to Blame for the reason why the animators and the actual artists aren’t getting compensation on their work. Production Committees originally started as way as I heard apparently to help the studio get independent with series production, but then the big companies game in and turned it into a more money for them scheme.

[@SlapstickGenius23]

Once production committees become popular, they get overused by corporations to the point of them being screwed over.

[@reverseshin]

@@SlapstickGenius23 exactly, When big corporations came in, the studios and artists got screwed over badly.

[@samuellatuffour1584]

Thank you for talking about this, very informative and I hope things get better going forward for animators. Keep up the great work and content because it's amazing :)

[@alexanderellis2763]

Thank you sooooo much for mentioning those POC indie projects at the end!! I've been looking for new things to watch and those look so siiiiiiiick :)

[@devonjeffers5898]

Personally, I think the Animation industry as a whole should collapse and then rise back like the Phoenix when people get COMPLETELY desperate. Animation feels like something that should be treated like how people would prefer to be treated, but with how they're treating it now... I think it's time the industry goes rogue and turns against the hand that barely even feeds them anymore. I'm sorry if this is a grim solution, but watching like 10+ videos like this would do things to an animation lover.

[@arkanimation9833]

If we win over here in the US then the Japanese workers stand a better chance. This is the economic mouth of the river. It’s bleak now, but trust when I say the animation world will win in one for or another and ai will be an annoying bookmark of now.

[@kye698]

Thank u for not yelling at me. I love a chill commentator

[@frostyfrenchtoast]

I only really watch western animation these days, but the industry over here is completely imploding too. Anime was a pretty huge bubble for a long time and that burst was honestly expected, but its meteoric rise since the pandemic only quickened demand and the pressures on animators Over in the west though, the streaming model is the main source for the industry’s problems imo. Arbitrary measures of success like viewing minutes and the death of cable/networks providing grassroots support for animators and crews has led to a complete reversion to wild west-style job markets. It’s really really bad

[@RWR785]

Crazy how anime was so hyped up and now cartoons and comics have taken over. Manga is still pretty good too bad anime fumbled the bag

[@frostyfrenchtoast]

@@RWR785 I’d say anime is still a juggernaut, the anime industry even at its peak during the OVA era was in an economic bubble and was bound to burst soon - the downside to anime being so pretty is that it’s built off of extremely exploitative labor practices and inhumane deadlines. Not to say comics or cartoons don’t share those issues, but it’s a lot less pronounced in comparison.

[@RWR785]

@@frostyfrenchtoast true, I’m just surprised how quickly cartoons and comics overtook anime. The bubble burst is gonna hit hard

[@Pasteltheblerd]

Sadly the money is the only way this stops I just don't know if that's a boycott or a full on collapse

[@stephanos6128]

both.

[@IAmBored347]

Finally someone acknowledging the complicated. Even if we have fun western animated shows coming out or animated movies it's complicated. It's few and far between now since there is the sad case of AI, the poor working conditions, and how bad the general board believes that by using AI as animation as the next big thing there's no need for workers. There is also the case of streaming services and the case of removing series and there's n9 case for any safety on claiming art. Like how HBO Max removed most of its cartoon network channels. (At least we have Hulu) And at least we have Indie Animation such as Helluva Boss or TADC it's still hard trying to make animation these days. And on the other hand anime is booming and I feel while it's exciting I feel it's the biggest weakness. The biggest issue is that the workers never fight. Say what you will on the state of the western animation industry at least those workers are fighting rather than backing down. But this is Japan and their workers have to deal with many frustrations such as the case with the Final Season of AOT or the state of JJK Season 2. These workers cannot even quit because Japan has a policy where it doesn't allow it. And some of anime services such as Crunchyroll and other streaming services shows how kind of dark it is. As a result I feel bad for all creators and I respect both cartoons and anime. I feel bad for these workers and I hope there some better alternative because I respect animation and I'm terrified on what's to come.

[@ithurtsbecauseitstrue]

When Helluva Boss and Digital Circus are held up as high bars, you know things are dogcrap bad. Holy moly.

[@DulKyoujiAnime]

I love the insight into the industry behind the actual product. It hurts to see how the actual individuals who produce the entertainment are being treated. From voice actors to animators hurts.

[@Mathue360]

Thank you for saying the quiet parts

[@juanmacias5922]

Capitalism go Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

[@LVC85costa]

uncomfortable conversations to be had. What more will it corrupt

[@juanmacias5922]

@@LVC85costa everything.

[@teoleno4019]

I usually am pro capitalism, but cgi us destroying anime.

[@devonjeffers5898]

@@teoleno4019 Pro Capitalist, eh? See if you even get a job in the country you're saluting.

[@teoleno4019]

@@devonjeffers5898 My country literally got financialy destroyed thanks to USSR Russia. So yes, I am definitely pro capitalism, because the opposite is way worse. 😒

[@chronicles6065]

New subscriber! I love these types of videos I love learning more about the state of anime because that is beyond disturbing that the workers are treated so bad in Anime that they want to unalive themselves is beyond sad.

[@-iIIiiiiiIiiiiIIIiiIi-]

Imagine a new anime model where studios with a proven track record create sample animations (short test footage) based on popular manga and pitch them directly to fans! Fans can fund the project upfront, ensuring fair pay for creators. If the funding goal is met, the studio produces the full season, and all backers receive producer credits in the final product! This way, fans support the projects they love, and studios can focus on quality without financial stress. What do you think? Would you back your favorite series this way?

[@GreenBlueClouds]

I worked in anime for a breif 2 years, I ended up jumping ship and landing a western studio job. The whiplash of expectations compared to anime workloads, deadlines and pay still freaks me out. I'm expecting to be let go every week and even though i am making so much more, i can't rely on my job staying around long. There is a big incentive for western networks to produce/comission more anime or anime style things due to the popularity of anime. This possibly translates more projects getting outsourced to an anime industry that is already at capacity with dirt low wages/contracts.

[@DerrickSeaborne-d2j]

Just discovered your channel, subscribed 😀

[@arkanimation9833]

First, those dvd’s you still got for an incredible bargain in fact the value went up after they sadly got deleted. Also for the anime fans while I appreciate the love for style and care anime puts in over American 2d animation. They have some studios who will give room for more care, but they have increased their dependency on capitalism so it’s creating the same toxic production as 2d in the west. What happens here will increase by the time it gets over there. I hate that anime is doing outsourcing too. We need to fight and raise our voices for anime and American animation alike! This is a shared struggle that we don’t want anime or cartoons to go away!

[@XavielArt]

Im hoping things would change eventually

[@Husain5XG]

"if ai" not "when ai"

[@0svvan0]

i was nearly in this industry. i majored in it. i don't even know why. this has all made me glad i never ended up working in animation at all.

[@PocketFoodArt]

Love the video, even if it’s depressing. One small thing, who gives a shit about using North Korean animators? The sanctions put on them were evil anyway?

[@Amexella]

^^ i hope north korean animators are paid properly

[@Ashes-wy5gb]

Another way we could support animators is to get actual jeff bezos to just pay all the animators more!

[@EduardoFlores-bt4fo]

For anyone interested in a summary of the video: "it's the fault of Capitalism's natural course"

[@ZaiDrizzleDrop]

The disease known as Capitalism

[@zam6877]

For decades, we have been kicking the can down the road because they were considered "to difficult to do" This why we now have MANY core problems /now/ crises from this to democracy This just sucks

[@zam6877]

This specific problem is from the "need" is keep most of the profits into the fewest hands

[@tituspannell6009]

Excellent video on the professional state of the animation industry.

[@Lifetruth-101]

Great work, thank you ❤❤

[@LoVibe]

amazing video ! thank you !

[@Oceanaryia]

Crunchy roll also merged with rightstuf fairly recently which is unfortunate !

[@msroguegoddess1866]

Great Analysis 👏🏽 Love your channel by the way! The Animation, film, and creative industry just isn't the same anymore 😞 I rather watch someone's ACTUAL hand drawn work than putting CGI while others are stealing people's art because of it. On top of that their not getting paid for it!! I pray for people who has hope in the Animation, film, or creative industry as a whole. Remember your Art brings Life to the world!! 🙏🏽🌱

[@RWR785]

If you want good animation you should play cuphead. It’s a 1900’s cartoon inspired rage-bate game with handrawn animation

[@0svvan0]

ps - there are a lot of people that think AI has peaked, and will not be able to do a full episode of a series. What we are seeing is all it can do.

[@shiroberry]

super important video! good work

[@katarinaclaes96]

Interesting video today 😢

[@FroAlchemist]

AI subtitling almost ruined the Yuzuki Family’s Four Sons, which is a solid slice of life, if you can get past the botchery of that first episode..

[@Cherubb3_systemsOT8]

I really hate it when entitled snobs say “you ruined the fight scene/ look” bc the show/ scenes they’re complaining about look like a moving recreation of the Sistine Chapel

[@GlerpidyGlarson]

The problem lies within the companies that decide to outsource animation to India and all kinds of other places but there is one scene in spiral AKA uzumaki that bothered me more than anything and it's when they're running on the beach and the animation is so bad it looks like they took a gif animation of a character running and just had it running across a line through animation making it look like one of the worst scenes I have ever seen in any anime. These companies need to have more passion for what they're doing and they need to have more time and patience to come out with greatness and the problem is the investors and all of these assholes behind these companies don't give them enough time money or patience to get the job done right half the time So this is what we get and that's sad. I don't believe junji Ito is cursed, I just think he's unlucky when it comes to people who want to adapt his manga. The first episode was incredible but their decisions after that are going to be the downfall of this whole thing

[@kootunesscrewy]

I blame companies and Elsagate content farms for killing animation.

[@GlerpidyGlarson]

@kootunesscrewy Amen to that and creativity as well

[@heathermooney7013]

This sounds crazy but I haven't watched a full series of anime since the 2010s. I think subconsciously I knew the mass production was schetch. I have stayed away from most popular hyped series including Attack on Titan. It all doesn't feel the same as when I was a child. Or maybe I'm getting old idk.

[@foregroundeclipse8725]

To be fair, I've been watching quite a bit of old Anime myself. I haven't really been up to date with all the new Anime coming out . I have my eyes on some new Anime like Orb on the movements of the earth. I plan on watching it once I finish Ashita No Joe .

[@aim3k249]

@@foregroundeclipse8725 You definitely should watch Orb. It's amazing

[@ExpertContrarian]

You didn’t subconsciously know anything.

[@utzchannel018]

You haven't really missed out on anything

[@foregroundeclipse8725]

@@ExpertContrarian ? I didn't claim to. What exactly are you getting at?

[@animehuntress9018]

That's interesting. I love Dahlia in Bloom's LN and Manga and own the English Version but I couldn't stand the Anime. They got the Tone wrong. It's not a romance. 8 Volumes of LN and absolutely no romance, lol. Its a story where the title is literal! Yet the important moments that show Dahlia finding her own feet are flat out missing for emphasis on Volf and so on. Sucks to know that it was outsourced and really the quality of the animation doesn't show that so I was really surprised. I don't subscribe to HiDive because while they have a great back log, most of their current log is very subpar despite me really wanting to like it. I adore the Heretical Last Boss, but youch that anime!

[@astragalactica968]

I love this video and I greatly appreciate your work and time to make this, but I'm dearly sorry to say we should never say "when AI takes over". AI is dangerous and without sanctions from these greedy corporations it will ruin our humanity. We should never allow AI to take over. Not in live action film, photography, graphic design, art, print, writing, and anime! For any other scientific fields like engineering or the medical field, I get it but with proper sanctions. People are way too relaxed- it's only the beginning, a few decades from now we won't have control. People be careful and stay vigilant. Art is a human creation and experience. Let people create!

[@howardjessica7704]

No one is truly innovating. No worries though, necessity is the mother of invention.

[@maxwellgraves635]

We need to get rid of Zaslav

[@alexmcgilvery3878]

I've been mostly disappointed in the most recent season of anime, especially the writing. It feels like everyone is just looking up random tropes and stuffing them into the story for reasons? I've already dropped a couple shows because they didn't grab, and another couple because they went full on cliché and I couldn't deal with it. One more is tottering on the edge, feeling more like a recap than a proper episode. That last one, the animation is terrible, like the animators were given a single glance at the character sheets and had to work from that. For all I know that's exactly what happened.

[@foregroundeclipse8725]

Orb on the movements of the earth looks really good and promising. I haven't watched it yet because I've been marathoning old Anime lately. But I do plan on watching it soon when I get the chance . I just finished season 1 of Ashita No Joe from 1970-1971 and I'm currently watching season 2 of Ashita No Joe from 1980-1981.

[@foregroundeclipse8725]

@@alexmcgilvery3878 I highly recommend Ashita No Joe btw

[@19Rena96]

Dahlia deserved so much better :((

[@samflood5631]

What about Castlevania, Legend of Vox Machina, My Adventures with Super Man, X-Men 97, Hayley Quinn and Kite Man Hell Yeah? Those are western animated shows that don’t have a lot of AI. Sure some of them have computer animation, but that’s mostly for monsters like Dragons in Legend of Vox Machina.

[@ActualBottleman]

The one thing I am most sick of right now is 3d animation. Im so sick and tired of looking at those fugly ass, cheap and blocky disney-esque corporate statues moving around on a screen. I could atleast forgive claymation, but this isn't even that anymore. What happened to good 2d in the west? What was so wrong with 2d animation? And even when they do make something 2d like a cartoon for ytv or cartoon network or something, its some overly ADHD fever dream driven flash animated/slop garbage. What the hell happened?

[@jack_stone]

People stopped showing up to 2D animated movies on the big screen because they were caught up in 3D novelty. That's why. Disney tried bringing the traditional 2D back with princess and the frog but people went to go see the chipmunk sequel more. There's 2D indie or Japanese films in theater but bare in mind Inside Out 2 got the big money. Despite whining for 2D and original they never show up for in theater the audience prove with their wallet what they really want every single time they'd rather have the 3D films they're comfortable with.

[@stephanos6128]

@jack_stone with Princess and the Frog it was purposely poorly advertised too. Disney has been known to deliberately do this with the films they want to flop to push for something else, and they did this with Atlantis and Treasure Planet to push for fully 3D animation, with PATF being the final nail in the coffin. They did this with Wish recently too (well they advertised it to hell and back, but more like sabotaged it behind the scenes into a mess of a movie to push for Frozen 3 AND 4)

[@stephanos6128]

@@ActualBottleman 3D animation (especially Disney) only looks that way due to the Trends ™️ same way how 2D had its slop of "disney ripoff" styles or crappy flash animation. 3D can be just as versatile if u look at whats being done by animators on youtube. And then you got studios like ArcSystem with games that have been using 3D but animate and shade it like its 2D since like the 90s, and it's personally the best 3D anime I've seen. now if only they do like a show and not games... To answer your first question: money. a lot of 2D animators at least Disney's were union or have union, except for the overseas sweatshops we outsource to, that includes Japan. big name studios thought they could cheapen out with 3D but whoops turns out it can just as expensive if not more, but that's manly the tools themselves (especially the computers) but iirc 3d animators can be paid cheaply and unfairly and out through the wringer. (now i could be mixing this up with CG VFX animation, it's a similar scenario, vfx artists aren't union either) ur 2nd question: nothing is wrong with 2D animation for us, but for the big guys in the suits it however take the most time and money to get produced next to stop motion i think. stop motion is actually interesting cus the guy above me claims 3d animation is seen as a cool novelty by audiences but idk I think theres more to it cus stop motion was essentially the method for 3D animation before 3Dcg, yet they also tend to not get a lot of attention. tldr we gotta get the business out of art and animation asap

[@jack_stone]

@@stephanos6128 I guess I'm just annoyed with people complaining for original and 2D content when they people never put their money where their mouth is. For all that complaining they still made Inside Out 2 the biggest pixar movie in years. They demand one thing but say another with their wallets.

[@kootunesscrewy]

CGI isn't terrible. I still love it (even if I do have some complaints). But I'll admit, after like 2017, it did become a outdated fad. Plus, the quality did start to feel too bright and colorful.

[@DRACOFURY]

I miss *Funimation*

[@RWR785]

Anime in 2024:💩 Cartoons in 2024:🗿

[@greendragonspirit1646]

It still beats British trash tv !

[@RWR785]

@@greendragonspirit1646 true true

[@pinkfoxboi1331]

Why don't some anime creators become indie anime creators with support from patron and crowd funding?

[@stephanos6128]

indie and art in general is insanely competitive and is a group effort to make an anime that patreon and kickstarter can do only so much, let alone if the patreons *have* money to donate to (economic crisis).

[@zazenbo]

I miss my wife

[@RWR785]

“I think… I miss my wife” “Think Mark Think!”-same guy 1 year ago

[@nickgadson266]

These stories of Japanese animators are just awful and tragic...

[@rustydogg]

AI is a tool to improve output, but big studios only see it as a way to cut costs. I hope indie studios use it to overcome budgets and find success.

[@gadeyeye6268]

So my idea is to combine the animatic process with animations to lighten the load on the artists. Still images should be utilized more for scenes that are low energy or dry conversations and more emphasis can be applied to action and high emotional scenes to really capitalize on the height of the moment in the story and alleviate the workload simultaneously. I call it animatication but that's my contribution.

[@gadeyeye6268]

The beauty of this animation style will be most scene in the smooth transitions between still images to fully animated movements. Like seeing a painting come to life is my vision.

[@lbh3d]

Please check your mic. It's getting garbled at times. May its gain is low?

[@MirinM8]

Arcane s2 coming out soon. I doubt that’s gonna be a mess

[@adcaptandumvulgus4252]

AI animation with minimum human assistance coming soon?

[@stephanos6128]

literally not possible in its current state

[@foregroundeclipse8725]

@@adcaptandumvulgus4252 I hope not. That stuff is even more inconsistent and uncanny. I'd rather have humans doing art .

[@ExpertContrarian]

“Translations” have never been up to par. The sooner they get replaced by AI the better.

[@stephanos6128]

its cus the translators are treated like shit, ai learns from this.

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@stephanos6128 Nope, it’s because they are politically and ideologically motivated. They’re not just making mistakes. They PURPOSELY change the writing to fit their desires. Always have and always will

[@stephanos6128]

@ExpertContrarian i think most languages are politically and ideologically motivated. have u also considered learning Japanese urself to enjoy ur anime content? ai's so good I heard from some other expert contrarian maybe you should give it a shot

[@stephanos6128]

@@ExpertContrarian that still also doesnt stop ai from learning from humans it literally can't learn on its own yet, how do u expect it to get smart if it never learns what Not to do?

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@stephanos6128 languages aren’t motivated. AI is not smart. Neither have sentience. Nice try with the gotcha

[@chaserseven2886]

AImazing

[@Brainles5]

Capitalism working as intended.

[@cjmoss51]

As bad as things are, people arent going to learn the lesson. Capitalism will come for everything you love.

[@Jones-d8q]

I know that people think they're helping animators by demonizing AI, but the fact is AI will become more and more ingrained in how we animate going forward. And by conflating AI with actual abuse in the industry only serves to make the real abuse come off as "just part of the system". Abuse isn't necessary! Abuse isn't beneficial! Let's continue to use AI to help artists make more things better and faster and let's try focusing on getting rid of all the other problems the host addresses in this video!

[@peiithos]

ai will but we should fight for it to be more ethical on all sides. to the animators and to the many it stole from to create its database that it regurgitates from. i see ai being used as a tool, but with how its being treated rn... ugh. companies stop trying to replace their human artists challenge!! use ai as a tool to streamline the processes of their human artists challenge!! i hope animators arent just uprooted and replaced. i hope they get actually paid.

[@Jones-d8q]

@@peiithos agreed. Just playing devil's advocate here, but what do you think about the fact that we all kinda get our ideas the same way ai does? Like we're just better at making "style" choices, but in a way there's no such thing as a new idea and we're all just kinda reinventing what we've seen in new ways anyways. I only suggest it to expand the conversation, I still definitely agree with what you said here.

[@peiithos]

@@Jones-d8q because ai just directly takes the art of the artist and regurgitates it. it's not taking inspiration like real life artists do, but instead stealing from artists and monetizing the work in the case of companies and stuff. we do get our ideas from other people, but we arent feeding their work into something to make us money without their consent.

[@ExpertContrarian]

@@peiithos there’s no such thing as ethical with AI.

[@peiithos]

@@ExpertContrarian if its used as a tool to help repetitive tasks in art that tech cant already do and the database it pulls from is collected ethically and consensually i can see ai use being okay

[@ZwaneMakki]

I love AI Minmax is a DREAM. I made a sci fi feature film with Ai it would cost me $200 million to make 'victory is in the GRAVE' Love AI

[@soysource3218]

At least Arcane will compensate for the travesties 😊

[@migueldELLO]

I'll be honest. I dont care for U.S. animation anymore. It's too political and riddled with agendas.

[@RWR785]

You should watch more cartoons, there is a reason why cartoons have become more popular than anime