The Video Game Industry is in Crisis with Jason Schreier - 283

[@TheAdamConover]

Learn more about Project 2025, get voting resources, and discover more about the Freedom From Religion Foundation: www.ffrf.org/vote. // Alma can help you find the right therapist for you - not just anyone. Visit helloalma.com/factually to get started and schedule a free consultation today.

[@zacharythomas8617]

You have four types we can describe as ”Classical Gaming”, AAA, Indie, Retro, and PC. Literally pick a lane, Adam. Games Journalism is limited because the former industry leaders got their moneys, and moved on. In the 90's we had gargantuan amounts of video gaming media. Then guess what? Boomers turned on gamers, and attributed Games to a Cult Following. It's not, and never should have been. Then 4chan happened, and now the Classical Era died because nobody wants to do the thing nobody wants to do anymore: Make friends, play games. Nobody has all the answers for why gaming died. However the selfish attitude of Gamers in general is not only Myth, but Legend. Gamers should stop eating each other. Nobody asked for the culture war we've lived with since Obama. Gamers deserve better then what we've been dealt in the name of just having fun. Something has to give, and I've never seen you do an LP Adam. But you're perfectly happy to criticize my hobby.

[@zacharythomas8617]

After watching the full interview. I am convinced he's self interested in selling something. Unionization will kill video gaming. Or make it a hobby of the rich, and wishful.

[@JohnDoe-ip3oq]

Cool, I learned about how to help support Project 2025, although I didn't care before, voted early, and signed up for SBI detected alerts. Things are looking better already.

[@JohnDoe-ip3oq]

​@@zacharythomas8617lol, he worked at gawker and they unionized. I think Hulk Hogan needs a comeback tour. As for any job reform, I think the first step is firing the entire HR department nationwide, because they do nothing useful and harass the workers. Then get rid of useless TPS report managers. The amount saved can go to workers who actually work getting a raise, and productivity will rise without micro management.

[@MP-ix2jo]

Adam you should learn more about your unique case of dementia.

[@Bobson_Dugnutt_Esq]

Cmdr. Sterling has long said (and I’m paraphrasing) “it’s not enough for them to make some of the money. It’s not enough for them to make a lot of the money. They aren’t content unless they’ll make all of the money that exists and ever will exist for all time.”

[@BeldansFire]

The Jimquisition was right.

[@NatalieRath]

Sterling is always right. People were just living in denial. Now we see all our favorite artists and game designers losing jobs. It's so sad. 😢

[@GoldenGyroBalls]

I've stopped following them since 2018 (they just got way too negative for my taste and I'm going to assume it has escalated since) but you know the old saying about broken clocks.

[@RosaFriend]

Thank God for James Stephanie Sterling

[@Zalinth]

The Cassandra of Video Games has always been and will always be right.

[@kingsgold]

Just to note, Japan has stricter employee protections than the US. In Japan, businesses are required to exhaust other methods before laying off employees. Layoffs in Japan are treated as a last resort. Nintendo does what is within the respect of each region's labor laws. So if you want similar laws in the US, then we need to get our representatives to pass laws that have more employee protections.

[@jfkst1]

Getting hired is also harder for that same reason. There's much more commitment from both employee and employer.

[@Zalinth]

Regulate capitalism? In this economy!? /s

[@peterbardsley2636]

They also tend to put employees in a room give them nothing to do and hope they quit. So Japan also has some shitty work practices too.

[@kingsgold]

@@peterbardsley2636 that isn’t a Japan only thing. Practice is used in Europe and USA.

[@inoob26]

@@peterbardsley2636 free money? sign me up!

[@steve94183]

Support Indie games people

[@YouTubeChannel-iq5to]

If they’re good

[@jackal27]

Completely agree, but I’m also not sure indie games are the way forward, saying this as someone who buys hundreds of indies a year. There will always be demand for boundary-pushing games on a larger scale and we have to make an environment where the people who develop those can work sustainably and live a life of dignity.

[@radscorpion8]

UNDERRAIL BEST GAME EVER

[@GRNKRBY]

I basically only play Indies (outside of Nintendo).

[@Crazedgamer16]

Support indie and don't sell?

[@Playingwith3D]

the devs that actually create games were replaced by ceo's and bean counters because money. They first killed the music industry, they killed the movie industry now they are gunning for the games industry. Greed kills everything it touches.

[@goroakechi6126]

I am gonna correct one thing: greed only half killed music. Being able to listen to every A-list rock star, pop band and country song whenever you want with the internet made it a thousand times harder to get into the industry period.

[@DaveGreco]

No the same devs are still making games, but they are mostly run by corp ceos and bean counters, instead of devs running the show at the top (which has downsides as well trust me). the devs themselves are the same. but your point is still true.. greed wrecks us all.

[@mediumvillain]

just say capitalism

[@boat1280]

Music is thriving, it's just the old-school major labels that have had problems. It's never been better for independent musicians to make a living. I make a living with a psychedelic band and almost that entire genre worldwide is independent or small labels. It wouldn't have been possible before the internet If you make generic rock or pop crap, yes it's absolutely harder to break into the carcass of the mainstream industry

[@Chiatrolll]

Similar to indie music being great I've been having a great time playing satisfactory on my PC and balatro on my mobile. AAA industry fuckups don't hurt the indie and smaller scene.

[@StarShade-l7q]

Corporations don't learn lessons because they move the pain down to the employees. Extract Value, divert consequences.

[@Mighty_Atheismo]

Mmm! Chefs kiss! Great comment

[@colinrussell2017]

Corporations don't have feelings I'm afraid

[@kennethgilcrest9548]

​@@colinrussell2017but they are people according to the United States Supreme Court. They have freedom of speech and also money = speech. Sooo if you have a lot of money you have a lot of speech.

[@BombaJead]

​@@colinrussell2017 and how is that relevant to the original comment?

[@derp195]

And they're only beholden to the shareholders, who are happy to sell and move on without giving it a second thought.

[@emceeunderdogrising]

Cost of living is sky high. I don't buy games for $60 anymore. The indie scene is thriving everywhere. Especially for gaming, painting, and music.

[@urazz7739]

Yeah, it's really the AAA video game publishers and studios that are struggling (and some AA studios as well).

[@raymondrembert6870]

The issue is that their are so many games right now specially with BC. Just look at the PSN sales in the store. Why pay 70 plus tax for a new game when I can get a GOTY edition for a game for less than 20 to hold me over until that full price game goes down.

[@Poppa_Capinyoaz]

No game will ever cost me full price again.

[@argolember2099]

I´ll just wait one of these games will be on sale on ebay or fb marketplace :)

[@dennisdeslager3382]

What do you mean with 'indi painting'?

[@bloo9699]

Greed ruins everything. Friggin micro-transactions.

[@kaydub3133]

For real! This comment pretty much sums up the state of the world right now

[@aprotosis]

The vast majority of games don't have micro-transactions or even DLC. You normally find it in free-to-play games , which exist due to a combination of gamers not wanting to pay for anything and the creation of mobile gaming. We can point fingers all we want on how greedy any specific group involved is, but it is a holistic issue.

[@rainbowkrampus]

@@aprotosis "Vast majority" is misleading here, or at least unhelpful. Thousands of games come out every year. Most people will play fewer than 10 new games per year. Most of that attention will go towards two markets, free-to-play predatory games and big budget "AAA" predatory games. Both of which heavily trend towards including micro-transactions. That's why the micro-transactions are there. Because those are the sorts of games most people are likely to play. That's where the money is so that's where the most predatory behavior is found.

[@teelo12000]

To reveal the counter-argument to this comment, buy one comment-reveal-charge for only $0.99

[@aprotosis]

@@rainbowkrampus Almost as misleading as saying everything is "predatory".

[@SonicMTD]

I’m still mourning the loss of Tango Gameworks. Apparently winning a Bafta for Hi-Fi Rush wasn’t enough to save them despite executives stating they want games that win awards.

[@dbagette]

They got acquired by the PUBG publisher in august

[@SonicMTD]

@@dbagette I’m aware. We’ll have to see how the new ownership turns out.

[@mitchellb4551]

indeed didn't it basically come down to them fishing at the wrong time leading to them being the easiest to kill??

[@Kaimax61]

​@@mitchellb4551 Yeah, the only reason they were axed was because they were pitching for a sequel.

[@DrTssha]

Perhaps they meant sales awards.

[@nickb.235]

Video games are in crisis because of the stock market's parasitic shareholder class and because triple AAA titles are ridiculously unnecessary and overdeveloped. Smaller studios and niche games turn profits.

[@TheJadedJames]

All publicly traded businesses have this issue. If you’re private sustainability just means that your business makes more money than it costs to exist. Shareholders/Investors incentivize you to always make more money than you did last year … which is never sustainable. So, once a company stops growing it enters a death spiral even if it was still insanely profitable, it was worthless to shareholders

[@dizzykong123]

A tiny percentage of smaller studios and niche games make profits. A few games a quarter do really well. Dozens of (non-shovel-ware) games are released by small studios and never make any money in that same time.

[@Drek492]

@@dizzykong123People don’t realize the sheer amount of games releasing on Steam every day that probably only sell a hundred copies at best

[@Trickeri1080]

@@dizzykong123 True, Steam NextFest had 5,237 free game demos playable during it last week. Only the top 5 has 1000+ players, top 50 had about 100 players and then it just tapered off quickly past there.

[@Will-xk4nm]

@@Drek492 The average game on Steam sells around 30 copies.

[@timdominik8319]

what killed consoles for me is the getting rid of splitscreen. that was the best reason for owning a console, you could play at home with your friends on the couch. no teamspeak, discord, whatever extra. just meet your friends on the couch. play a bit and then do something else. socializing in real life is worth more.

[@brad_wilson]

100% agreed. Looking forward to a high quality couch co-op experience with Path of Exile 2.

[@jojomang8333]

As I've gotten older I've lost interest in 99% of single player games, apart from the odd series I've been following for years. It's just boring now - there is so much more value in using video games as a means of interacting with others imo. We're already isolated enough as is 🙃

[@G33KSP34K]

Agreed. The last console I bought was the Xbox one so that I could play games with my brother, and then there were very few games that came out for it that were split screen capable. I abandoned it super quick and I haven't bought a new console since.

[@mediumvillain]

its so frustrating when I cant play a game with my girlfriend for no good reason.

[@robertbensch7748]

Absolutely this. I have so many great memories of playing street fighter against friends (it was the 90s) and then going outside, coming back for another round. I've thought about offering something like that to my kids, but it's impossible. Because basically you need to buy the console, the game, a battle pass, and then each of the fighters that aren't included in the base game, and then maybe cosmetics which also have gameplay impact. No, I'm not conditioning my kids like that. This part of the industry has to die, rather sooner than later.

[@devinfaux6987]

To expand on the question at 1:26:08: The thing is that capitalism isn't designed for sustainable growth for its own sake, it is designed to increase the wealth -- the *capital* -- of the person or people who already have capital. Giving your workers any kind of a stake may help the company as a whole, but it reduces the owner's control and their own profits.

[@shawnrentfro1668]

This is my issue with Capitalism. No one person gets all that wealth on their own. They used folks to get there. I understand they came up with the idea and company etc, but they can't make it work by themsleves. So why are employees treated like they don't matter to the success of the company when they obviously do? There is a point where you have too much money for one person. No reason everyone who helped should live off pennies. Also, companies need to think about customers more than stockholders, thats how everyone makes money and is happy.

[@devinfaux6987]

@@shawnrentfro1668 I'm with you 100%, but the logic of capitalism is that the asshole with the special piece of paper which says he owns the building is more important than all the people actually doing the work.

[@shawnrentfro1668]

@@devinfaux6987 Yep agreed. Obviously it wouldn't have started without him, or it wouldn't be there at all, but like I mentioned he needs a team in order to make it successful and to last for years to come.

[@DanieleNiero]

That is why unions and the right to strike (without being beaten or worse) is so fundamental... We seem to have forgotten that

[@shawnrentfro1668]

@@DanieleNiero Yes it is!

[@halcyon_echo42]

That fan that was at a conference for Diablo's new game with Microtransactions and warned everyone this was wrong still echoes in my head

[@Banquet42]

Was that the 'Is this an out of season April fool's day koke?' guy?

[@NiteSaiya]

And then Blizzard allegedly made millions off of that game.

[@OryxAU]

I expected Jason to be some over inflated personality, but actually quite level headed and understands nuance. It's a good counter to Adam's more exaggerated moments where he lacks a little bit of context. Adam also has a deeper understanding of the video game industry than most personalities and he approached it with the care and curiosity it deserves. Good episode.

[@Dopesaur]

You put it into words! I enjoyed this episode a lot because of this.

[@coolioso808]

@@Dopesaur Indeed, I enjoyed this episode, learned a lot and liked when Jason pushed back a little when called a "full on capitalist' or whatever, like no, he really isn't, he's just a dude trying to make a living in a capitalist world, observing and writing about what is going on around him. He doesn't even understand capitalist business logic, like why not get worker co-ops going because the worker's have a say and they share the profits, so wouldn't that be better for all? But no, apparently, corporate mergers are better for ... profiteering of the few, not the many.

[@TheThunderbirdRising]

Jason's always been a journalist first and a 'personality' second. Stand up dude.

[@dekai7992]

I'm curious as to why you initially thought that way about Jason. Because, when you look at his articles, he seems to have always been interested in the human side of the video game industry. That doesn't exactly screem "over-inflated" to me.

[@Zero0mtk]

@@dekai7992 Presumably because Jason wasn't a gamergate cheerleader back then? "Game journalist" really draws the ire of certain cohort of online communities and get caricatured to hell and back, and Jason certainly is/identifies as one.

[@stickkman]

0:50 Happening all over the tech sector. Every time the company I work for gets bought, I clench just a little bit tighter. The fact that the end goal for many businesses is just to be bought out by the big three is indicative of a larger problem.

[@aubreyfinn4450]

I think one of the most emblematic things that touches on this conversation is how Disco Elysium offered a very nontraditional CRPG with a lot of depth, humour and obvious care for the end result, was turned into a husk of itself, and last week had 4 successor studios announce projects. The problem isn't the people making the games, it's the people funding them who have no idea how to make a game.

[@DanieleNiero]

That was a sad situation, yes, especially because that game is so well crafted and intelligent... but these situations happened even before the current crisis and they are not related.

[@LddStyx]

Companies don't make games, they only fund, publish and own the resulting IPs. People make games! That's why everyone should read the credits to find out who makes the games they love and then follow the people.

[@ingrudmessenger1193]

I haven't finished it yet... how was it made into a husk of itself?

[@bigpurplepops]

1. Games have taken a "too big to fail" aproach where companies turn games into massive investments and shotgun out multiple per year. 2. Studios have been working around criteria that appeal to the investors but most players don't care about; leading to poor sales and declining audience faith. 3. Industry culture shifts away from consumer sentiment as a feedback loop between executives and access-journalism efforts lead to projects losing their direction to toxic positivity or financial interests.

[@USSAnimeNCC-]

What actually ruining games not some wokeness or feminism agenda by people whi are derange ad Trump blaming everything on immigrants And lets be honest most MC characters are while males very few are women and non whites and its werid that half aren't females and werid that in a diverse country like US non white are rare that being even said even in a mostly Korean or Japanese it good to sometimes have storie around a black person as it give interesting story or something that the mostly japanese or Polish people aren't going to have

[@Bustermachine]

There's also the constant gambling on Games as a Service despite the fact that the market can only absorb a handful of these sorts of games at once.

[@bladelazoe]

So, 1. we're reaching a point of "too big to fail" 2. Everyone is appealing to investors vs what players really want in their games 3. The communication feedback loop between getting constructive criticism vs whatever the executives and game company reviews is getting worse. Like honestly, who the fuck trusts IGN at this point? I value AngryJoeShow and The ActMan more than any other "proper" game review company. We're quickly heading towards a propery reset, aka a giant crash. Market correction. Last time I heard of this was back in 2007-2008 when the banking world was in crisis and some of the banks were declared "too big to fail" and guess what? They failed, crumbled like a house of cards, never to be seen again. We're about to see that again but maybe not just in the Games industry but economically. Yet people refuse to talk about this subject.

[@One.Zero.One101]

- The common business strategy I see today is "How to piss off your customers without them actually leaving". I see this in streaming services, gadgets, gaming, ISP providers, phone carriers, and many others. Thankfully gamers actually stopped buying and voted with their wallet finally. This is a great lesson on supply and demand, companies keep making products because you keep buying them. A company wouldn't make a product that doesn't sell. May customers apply this to other industries as well. - This is actually a good thing because gamers finally put their money where their mouth is. Too many times we complain about a game on Reddit and then we see it made 1 billion dollars. Customers, you have the power to tell the company what product they need to make. Unless of course they become a monopoly and there's no other option, but that's a separate discussion.

[@SocksAndPuppets]

One of the big reasons why the MS Act-Blizz merger has gone so badly is that the negotiations took a LOT of time, and for the entirety of that time, Act-Blizz execs were stripping all the lead out of the roofing. Game franchises like Overwatch and Diablo changed monetization and design to squeeze players for every cent they could get, squandering good will and bleeding players to make as much short term profit as possible. This had the dual effects of inflating the balance sheets (making the company look more valuable) while hitting long-term sustainability.

[@mediumvillain]

Zenimax/Bethesda did the EXACT same thing

[@bruceleeharrison9284]

RIP Overwatch

[@lokinakor1]

They have to be taught a lesson... everyone has to shun game devs who do this and ignore games that do it...

[@hobosnake1]

​@lokinakor1 they won't. People will eat their slop, and in turn, they will get more slop. Gems will come out here and there, but people keep buying this trash, so I don't have much hope.

[@AlexP-dz7ew]

The video games industry SHOULD have looked at film and TV and learned from the many mistakes that have happened over the 100 years of that industry Instead, they made every mistake, and in some ways made them WORSE

[@shaderkul]

Because the suits that ruined the Fiilm & TV industry all mass migrated to the Games Industry over a decade ago when they saw the profits being made and made the same mess of it. Not surprising.

[@AlexP-dz7ew]

@@shaderkul and game companies let them

[@blackdragon6]

​@@AlexP-dz7ew greed does that 😂

[@RyanStillGames]

"What are you talking about we (and by we I mean I) made tons of money!" - Unitys Former CEO

[@justinlim1256]

I graduated in 2022 with a BFA in -basically- digital and videogame art, from a prominent videogame school in the industry. The mass layoffs and mergers started about 2 weeks later. Now I'm working at a big box retail store, and despite applying for much of the past 2 years, I have yet to even get an interview. Many of my classmates are in similar situations. Its so disheartening.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

You should look at application development, a lot of these skills apply over both industries

[@aubriestarks2242]

Graduated from Guildhall in May of 2023, and have only had 3 interviews in the last 15 months. It's brutal in the gaming industry right now. A lot of people are just working on passion projects with others for free just to get their names in the credits of a project that might publish.

[@justinlim1256]

@@aubriestarks2242 Working for free, jeeze 😔

[@DanieleNiero]

​@@aubriestarks2242 As a veteran in the broader 3D industry (worked in commercials, movies, games) I know it is hard, harder than ever actually, but please, don't give up. Secure a means of income, yes, but don't give up. Who knows, your passion project might be the next big thing and you might give me an interview in a few years from now :) Good luck guys and stay strong

[@Najebanski]

Forget AAA studios. Apply to indie devs, mobile game devs, online casinos, advertisement studios, ... Still no answer? Improve your portfolio, rinse and repeat and you'll land something. First step is the hardest

[@ShazyShaze]

I tried to get into the industry, because I've been making games for most of my life, and have a few finished projects under my belt. Couldn't even get an interview for things I have been doing for decades now. It was horrid. I've went indie, and am working on my own thing instead. I'm making the same amount of money doing it than I did looking for a job, and I actually have something to show for all that work, unlike the job hunt

[@plutarchtheoligarch1657]

Keep it man. I love indie games and their developers.

[@urduib]

I wait for AAA games to go on sales for 10 Euro. When it comes to Indie games i gladly pay 30 euro and higher. 80% of my games are Indie. You guys make the best games and i can feel the love and care for details when playing 😍

[@DanieleNiero]

Can we know the name of your projects and where to get them? Who knows, I might be your next customer 😊

[@hobosnake1]

I admire that. Good stuff, keep it up. I can't imagine the satisfaction that must bring you. To create something and support yourself solely on your own terms. Good stuff.

[@andresmicalizzi5420]

Congratulations!!! I wanted to get into games for years... And learnt a Lot of it and created a couple of games from scratch, but never published or finished them... Working on software QA... Going indie Is something I want to do, but need to play the bills for the kids and family....

[@severdislike4222]

This is far from the first time that the gaming industry has self-destructed. There was the 97% contraction in 1983 that aggressively mirrors what is going on today. Executives thinking that the industry exists to print money for as little effort as is possible (See EA sports games) while dispising their customer base (Ubisoft is openly hostile to their customer base,) while ignoring critique about their extremely low effort recent games (Bethesda) will always lead to the same outcome a gigantic contraction because what is being produced by "The large industry leaders" is effectively garbage.

[@Malekariel]

yea and nintendo is the only company that learned anything from that.

[@severdislike4222]

@@Malekariel Eeehhh no, Nintendo learned the Disney model of "If you're big you can sue your competition into the ground." I am not touching the internal work/life balance at Nintendo either as it's pretty nightmarish due to Japanese business practices operate, aka "Heaven for superstar geniuses with no social lives, an abject hell for normal people just trying to get by."

[@thealternative9580]

1983 Atari lost the right to control what games could be played on its console and a slew of crappy games came out. Also the tech wasn’t there yet to make great home video games. This ain’t the same.

[@Malekariel]

@@severdislike4222 you super touched on the thing you said you wouldnt touch on.

[@Kaimax61]

​@@severdislike4222"im not touching" still generalize the japanese work industry anyway

[@nzwj]

Jason Schreier is a great journalist, but these recent podcast appearances made me appreciate that he is also a really great storyteller.

[@andyw4432]

he's def been practicing. He's had a games podcast for .. a decade?!? I'm feeling old now

[@cghodo]

@@andyw4432Triple Click is my most valued parasocial relationship. I’ve listened to and read the work of those three people for close to 15 years at this point.

[@bargaintuesday812]

He's a blogger, not a journalist. Video games journalism isn't "a thing".

[@Knowingspy]

@@bargaintuesday812He works for Bloomberg and routinely breaks news off the back of sources he has accumulated over the years. He absolutely is a journalist.

[@arubinojr5670]

@@bargaintuesday812 Then what were all the gamergoogoogagas harassing women about a few years ago?

[@georgesalisbury5996]

I'd love to see Adam Conover have a discussion with Stephanie Stirling, if only to see where it goes.

[@BeldansFire]

Yes Fuck Konami.

[@toconnell88]

11 minute pog discussion 😂 I agree, though. That would be fun and informative.

[@Violaphobia]

This sounds like unproductive torture

[@georgesalisbury5996]

@@toconnell88 Well she does have some very nuanced and poignant things to say.

[@yusufgerald3969]

​@georgesalisbury5996 you mean him

[@seankale5116]

Game Dev here, thank you Adam and all that had anything to do with this. much appreciated for shining light on this issue.

[@Eli_Guy]

"If I was a capitalist, you really think Id write a book?" is so real lmao Jason is such a knowledgeable person on the games industry, so glad for his work

[@timmyI115]

never have I ever seen an ffrf ad. I am glad you allowed them to advertise.

[@theod0r]

I audibly gasped when I saw Jason Schreier. He's such a great journalist on this topic and has to deal with an insane amount of harassment and bullshit because of it.

[@robertdascoli949]

His behind the scenes reports on Bioware during Anthem were amazing.

[@Sandesh98147]

And his reporting on gamer gate. Some of the most twitter mob hatred I've seen hurled at an individual

[@duo317]

He knew about the sexual harassment and rape culture at blizzard for years and said nothing until whistleblowers started coming out.

[@ruinerblodsinn6648]

@@Sandesh98147 what did he say on Gamergate?

[@mindwall]

@@ruinerblodsinn6648he said that he couldn’t find the keys

[@FuyuBiyori]

It's really sad seeing these companies trying to screw over voice actors by forcing AI.

[@PropheticShadeZ]

I cannot imagine how bad these slop games would be with dead ai voices, not even thinking about how those ai voices are just plagarism

[@michall6376]

Adam really seems to keep up. Usually content creators that call themselves gamers just pose as ones. I get why Jason enjoys the interview so much.

[@TheMetalGaia]

That's Adam's strong suit for sure. He is always genuinely interested in the topic at hand.

[@PhoTC]

well, calling Adam just a content creator is kinda wild given what he does in terms of unionization, and how he handles his research (Adam has ADHD and is particular, per his recent standup special). he's OG

[@notreallythere477]

Well, of course he's a gamer, he even tried to bring back Bleep Bloop!

[@nevertoolate5325]

Until folks vote for politicians who stand up to the Corporates then these "industries" are all the same: games, foods, real estate, warehousing, drugs, transport, schooling, policing, etc etc 🙄🙄🙄

[@snowballeffect7812]

no, games aren't exactly the same as the others. we don't need games to survive. the problem with that industry is entirely the fault of the consumers of that industry rewarding anti-consumer behavior.

[@tallesmagno201]

No people are too stupid so nothing will change.

[@leeroy1986]

We tried that in the UK a few times, more often than not people end up worse off sadly.

[@snowballeffect7812]

@@leeroy1986 when did this happen? lol. No one's done that since the end of the post-war consensus and thatcher brought on full neoliberalism to the UK

[@leeroy1986]

@snowballeffect7812 Wilson in the 60s and 70s. Attlee's reforms economically weren't considered great economically at the time. Blair, I think largely did good, tbf. So basically, every Labour PM who went along with Socialism.

[@EnigmaticGentleman]

I find it funny that Nintendo is doing well just by being commited to making good games and treating their employees well. As someone who has studied them they really don't have any secret sauce like other game companies will claim, just company wide raises and prioritizing fun gameplay over fancy tech.

[@prefon13]

Cannot agree more. It tracks across other industries as well. If you prioritize employee happiness, you unsurprisingly get greater employee loyalty, harder workers, more institutional knowledge, and overall better outcomes for the consumer.

[@bria243]

Something else to bear in mind is that in Japan, there is a different legal framework on how companies are run. That is one reason why Sony shifted from being Japanese to being US led.

[@average_geeky_guy]

If Nintendo just wasn't so damn litigious in really stupid ways they would be basically perfect and a shining example of what gaming companies could be. But yeah, they 100% get the simple point that if you make good games, people will buy them. You just have to take the time to make quality games that people want to play and you will just naturally be successful. I love how they've embraced indie games and physical games as well.

[@deerkaiser9983]

Nintendo treats their employees really well but their customers and fans like dog shit

[@jfkst1]

Sony Japan is dramatically different than the US version.

[@justinbuergi9867]

As someone getting a degree in game design, this definitely has me worried right now Think it might be safer for me to just go into teaching game design instead of trying to get a job in the industry.

[@morganwilliams2863]

Sell shovels during a gold rush right?

[@candygonemad]

I'm trying to get a job in tech outside of games to gain skills and experience adjacent to games and then switch to the games industry after showing my skills in development

[@justinbuergi9867]

@@candygonemad not a bad plan. Though I’m not sure if you’ll end up going back. From what I’ve heard tech is pretty stable and pays better.

[@candygonemad]

@@justinbuergi9867 yeah it for sure is, but my heart is with games. In the meantime I'm working with some friends on an indie game and already released one last year, so I'm still getting some of my passion exercised

[@justinbuergi9867]

@@candygonemad congrats! I do a few jams a year but haven’t had the time for a more long term project.

[@EnigmaticGentleman]

I think the company that most exemplifies the current crisis is GameFreak. Thee people working there are clearly very talented and care a lot about the product (they wouldn't have such good character designs and music otherwise), but since the executives impose a strict 3 year cycle on games with such massive scope they really cant do much better than releasing deeply unpolished games.

[@Kaimax61]

Not thr companies that fires 100s of people, but the company that you hate for making games not for you anymore? lmao

[@Blue-fg8vt]

Dude. The latest game was in such poor shape it gave me motion sickness. A game can be targeted to a younger audience and still be good. Look at Mario or miitopia. Pokemon's a good example of things going wrong become its the biggest media franchise in the world. ​@@Kaimax61

[@Linklex7]

It’s funny how we always praise Nintendo for being different than the rest of the AAA industry . . . . until it comes to Pokémon. Pokémon and Gamefreak is when Nintendo becomes EA, Activision, or Ubisoft.

[@bczpkhny]

I messaged Jason once asking for help once and he responded and gave a thoughtful response. Prior to that, he was at Kotaku at the time and his articles influenced my taste in them, particularly with Virtue's Last Reward. Jason is awesome and has dope taste.

[@omeysalvi]

This one video has more relevant and accurate information on the games industry than a 1000 videos from outrage gamer drifters.

[@alfgwahigain5544]

I'm so used to seeing "woke" and "DEI" in the majority of comments under game criticism (especially after Concord) that I was shocked to see people being mature and considerate. What is this place?!?

[@effennion]

The fact this dropped the day after Riot Games just layed off a bunch of employees just highlighted the issues in the industry even more

[@Vanity0666]

Riot Games and Blizzard are basically sister companies

[@DuvJones]

yeah, I'll be honest I think there's a big issue with this "survive till 2025" mentality which is... what happens once you get there? because if these companies are relying on the sugar rush that comes from cheap money/loans, then they have learned nothing. What's worse is that I do suspect it's going to happen.

[@devinfaux6987]

Are there any industries which *aren't* in crisis at this point?

[@franjkav]

Apple and oranges. Video games, and tech more broadly, are experiencing a lot of layoffs and have been for three years now

[@rainbowkrampus]

Capitalism is a system which engenders crises. A system which demands infinite growth cannot achieve stability in a market with limited resources. All industry will reach points of crisis in this system, collapse and then restructure. Assuming the collapse is not so great that demand drops to zero. The real question is, why do we tolerate a system which is guaranteed to produce failure and instability and destitution as a normal part of its function?

[@darkridearts]

It's called a recession

[@timpower4922]

No, most industries are amassing record profits right now. Stop giving the video game industry your money.

[@timpower4922]

@@darkrideartsknowing things is better than just puking words.

[@jamievaughn1485]

I am 48 and have been gaming since 1983. That said, I don't end up buying lots of games anymore as I work and have adult things going on. So I end up playing 3 new games a year, and lately have just been replaying the Souls games over and over trying different classes etc. Seeing gaming turn to these giant games that you wait years on turned me off. I hate when they show a trailer with zero gameplay for a game you won't see for 5 yrs. I just don't even watch the shows or previews anymore as this has become the norm. Show me the game when it's almost ready, not when it is in concept. At this point I'd rather just go play older games I missed than waste money on new games that just fuel CEO's bonuses. RIP to the industry, as with all other things, greed will kill it and Indie studios will be all that's left, oh and Nintendo.

[@TimmyTheTinman]

The industry is not going anywhere though

[@One.Zero.One101]

There are games where I enjoy the first 40 hours, but after that I'm just praying for the game to end. I'm just darting to the finish line. I begin skipping dialogue, ignoring chests, planning quests that I can skip, I begin to make stupid mistakes in combat because my mind is elsewhere. I'm like a zombie going through the motions. Thankfully I'm learning to let go of my urge to be a completionist. I've learned when to stop and move on to the next one in my backlog.

[@NateBear]

Enshitification and falling rate of profit issue all over every industry

[@alfgwahigain5544]

And yet the industry doesn't seem capable of connecting those two things.

[@Awdreejahslin]

I seriously blame live service games… and mobile gaming… and that’s talked about a lot… gaming turned into a business and became less about gaming… so many games a cookie cutter variants of each other… to which some of that is warranted, but it isn’t the end all be all…

[@blacksailsfan4life]

!

[@Awdreejahslin]

@@blacksailsfan4life 😳 haha 🥲 what does just an exclamation point mean? 🤣

[@blacksailsfan4life]

@@Awdreejahslin i agree

[@One.Zero.One101]

There's a famous saying; "Ubisoft doesn't make games, they make monetization and build a game around it".

[@kudlac1322]

"Let's all laugh at an industry, that never learns anything. Tee hee hee" Ben "Yahtzee" Crowshaw

[@Malekariel]

Nintendo doesn't chase trends it does it's own thing and focuses on quality rather than short term profit. Seems to work.

[@The_Babe]

They're suehappy and shitty in plenty of other ways. While the games may be fun, everything surrounding it is pretty garbage

[@jeffreblumenshine7103]

What about Game Freak?

[@CrossOni-ju1hh]

They're also pretty terrible. They just have good PR, so only see the wholesome parts.

[@Malekariel]

@@CrossOni-ju1hh i dont think they're wholesome. They are a corporation like every other corporation, they just are less susceptible to the overeach and growth until bloat and layoff cycle. Stability > infinite growth

[@pronoun171]

They are scum, they chase the trend if crush the competition and everyone else with lawsuits

[@PhoTC]

OH YES. Very happy Jason swung by for you! Was hoping his media tour would include you!

[@necromandy]

As a friend of two people who have been long term Zynga employees: the buyout was SO disruptive to their work culture and environment. They both love their work but the energy shift Take2 brought seems to just be a constant buzz of giving their employees some serious anxiety when before it was a genuinely chill place to work at. I feel bad for them both because they both felt like they were working dream jobs before a deeply corporate hand closed around their throats. That said: they do still work there and didn’t get axed at least. It’s just before when the culture promoted creativity and fun it (from what they describe) feels more like they’re just trying hard not to be the slowest runner, now.

[@QuercusQuest]

This discussion is so important. The gaming industry's paradox of record-breaking profits alongside mass layoffs is mind-boggling. Jason Schreier's insights on the cost and instability of game development are eye-opening-thanks for shedding light on an issue that impacts both creators and players. Can we as gamers do anything to help support sustainable development practices? Amazing work, Adam!

[@takuminishijou5697]

Games design by board rooms and micro transactions that run like garbage are ruining the industry. The suits fire the very people that tell them they are making crap. As a gamer from the first quarter dropped in a pinball machine before an atari existed, I have never seen such garbage pushed on the public by the high-end publishers. So sad.

[@Ajbarili]

The nintendo switch is an amazing console. Portable, but capable of bigger Tv games, so easy to add couch co-op and multiplayer, tons of amazing games. Everything the PS Vita was suppose to be.

[@Kaimax61]

Vita's main problem was the price and the proprietary memory card. Then sony giving up instead of making things cheaper.

[@alfgwahigain5544]

The Wii was a fantastic system for its time. I'd buy a Wii 2 with better graphics and motion control. A console that encourages group play is always a good thing.

[@seanhogan3967]

Love how well the 2 of you get along, really lovely interactions! Jason is an incredible writer, looking forward to Play Nice!

[@zacharythomas8617]

Peak NPC Liberal. Next.

[@Slantwalker]

@@zacharythomas8617 coming from a gamer-gate incel.

[@dermboss402]

Im from a european country and we have enough workers rights that unions arent necessary but iv heard some horror stories from the US where , someone can just walk into work monday morning and get fired for no reason. Thats insane. Unionising seems to be the only logical thing to do. I got hit by the downsizing as well in 2022/2023 and got let go, but i got about 2 months notice and a severence package, and the welfare system in my country is such that i would have been ok for a while without a job (got a new job lined up immediately, its way better than the last its all good). But , if i could be fired on a whim, and had to work 60+ hours per week but only get paid for 40 of them, with only 2 weeks holidays and no sick leave or paternety leave, then yeah, unionising to get that stuff seems like the only logical thing to do

[@destronger5313]

It’s legit. However, each state has its own laws about firing/laying someone off. Despite california being a juggernaut with work, a person can be let go at anytime. Another thing is the ‘right to work’ states. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law It’s sounds great but it was really meant to confuse and puts power with the corporations as the end game.

[@SIGNIFYING_NOTHING]

1:34:13 -- For the record, I made it past the Balatro talk.

[@noidea6311]

Samesies

[@Spiderman-bf3qq]

WE FOUND OUR 10 PEOPLE!!!!

[@bnbronstein]

I MADE IT THROUGH THE BELATRO TALK and I just want to say this was a fantastic interview Jason was incredibly insightful and funny.

[@Fazuchi24]

The lies Blizzard tould about Overwatch 2 was the nail in the coffin for me.

[@LandOfTheFallen]

Can people stop with the “layoffs being a correction”! These studios are more profitable than ever. The layoffs simply occurred because it’s a quick way of pleasing the shareholders.

[@anena2487]

Yeah, if anything im glad people are getting radicalized to not stand for this shit anymore, but genuine change in the industry is gonna be hard to achieve :((

[@txDDS]

Yeah Arrowhead Studio is real profitable. Lol.

[@LandOfTheFallen]

@@txDDS idk if you’re being sarcastic or not.

[@txDDS]

@@LandOfTheFallenmeant to say Firewalk studio. Arrowhead is actually one of the few super profitable studios. I can't believe these 2 guys spent an hour talking about the state of the games industry and didn't once bring up DEI and woke agendas screwing up that's games

[@LandOfTheFallen]

@@txDDS so you’re just dumb. Keep on keeping on.

[@bross92]

I read Jason's book, I've seen 2 interviews with him so far in other podcasts, but this was firmly the best discussion I've seen with him so far - super well done!

[@Aries73]

Nintendo saw this crisis coming a long time ago, which is why they stopped chasing power and tech and focused more on making fun games like Fire Emblem, Xenoblade Chronicles, and Metroid Prime. The obsession with cutting-edge graphics and cinematics has put the "AAA" industry in a no-win situation.

[@alfgwahigain5544]

The Wii hit the market at the perfect time when my kids were younger. But it wasn't just the kids. We had parties with adults and kids playing Wii Sports and others. When's the last time that happened? I really believe if Nintendo released a Wii 2 and it was just the same idea with updated hardware, it would be another hit. The group and family aspects of it may not appeal to the hardcore segment of the gaming community, but a console that got people off the couch and playing together was a magical thing. But there were also a lot of good single player games, as well. The graphics were sub standard, but when those games hit right, they were great.

[@BeldansFire]

How is each new episode my new favorite episode. Who the heck is your booking person they are doing great!!!

[@MedievalGenie]

I am disappointed to not hear microtransactions covered as an industry trend in and of itself. It fundamentally changed the market so that eventually games were being replaced by live services.

[@WiiWillCtrlU]

I've always heard things from Jason Schreier and his reports through other people. This was my first time ever seeing him & also hearing him directly. Instantly made me buy his newest book, "Play Nice: The Rise, Fall and Future of Blizzard Entertainment". Much appreciation for all his hard works

[@arxaaron]

Nice to see donations to FFRF going into sponsoring your production work along side my Patreonage!

[@faryndoodle]

It seems silly to me that video game companies won't listen to their fans. If they want to make more money, supply consumers with what they want to pay for! And treat your employees as human beings...

[@Spigele]

Nope only shareholders and ceos matter

[@bladelazoe]

It does seem silly, because customers are the lifeblood of a company's survival. It's very simple, Amazing product= more money! Keep your talent and make better products = more money!! lol

[@soeasyastonercoulddoit]

An FFRF ad!?! You just earned yourself a KZbin premium subscriber

[@toverkleet]

Good counter example for the long hours playing is Baldurs Gate 3, released in 2023, almost fully independent financed, single and mulitplayer RPG, one run can last 100 hours, sales according to the makers (on reddit) 15 milion copies, won a huge slew of rewards, so there are those games still out there without corporate overlords looming over the process.

[@goldbergbrain]

Surprised that BG3/Larian didn't come up. To me, they seem like the future model. Where's that book/analysis?

[@AnimalXing]

Phenomenal interview - loved it!

[@levierickson7321]

I pivoted to teaching game design at a STEM high school this August These students are the future of the industry

[@dustinkilburn]

Replied to one his tweets asking what a Chud was. And why I couldn't respond to his previous post. Got blocked within 2 minutes. For no reason. But it makes much more sense now

[@nickblomgren]

I'm just going to throw out this wild theory: That four years into a consoles lifecycle, and your game system still hasn't seen like, _a basic price-cut,_ maybe contributing to people not purchasing your console and sticking with the old one?

[@alaskanyeti907]

And they're still pumping out games for the previous console generation

[@MissLadyRukia]

Developers don't even have time to master a current-gen console before they have to start learning how to use next-gen. Games in a 5-7 production cycle making it a cross-gen.

[@jeremybiggs8413]

‘Cost so much and take so long to play’ - because they’re not making games, they’re making interactive movies.

[@ConorRochon]

FYI: I would listen to Adam and Jason talk about Balatro for hours. Excellent interview.

[@Mikes_NotSane]

such a great chat! Keep it up Adam, I love tuning in when I can. Shoutout Jason for keeping us all informed over the last few years

[@ZZ-sb8os]

P2W ruined the greatest MMORPG ever, RIFT. The first few years of RIFT were glorious, the most fun I've ever had playing any video game since I first began in 1985...and then the microtransactions began. It caused all the really serious, dedicated players who really love the game to lose interest and move on, and before long they were only two player types, the whales who could afford the P2W content that followed, or noobs who had not yet realized that they needed to either start coughing up the $$$ or find another game to play.

[@daviddobarganes9115]

This describes so many games Im at the point if I see some kind of premium currency I almost always immediately uninstall

[@lazloholyfield9902]

Capcom is a fairly big studio and they are doing pretty well, but they never lost sight on who their main customers are.

[@IndianTelephone]

it's just so sad that the gaming industry has fallen to capitalism l was always so proud of it. Its the most unique form of art, where the consumer can interact with the art, and yet...

[@AlexRFightgames]

Adam, it is so cool to see you doing so well and being such a media presence. Brett and I talk about you pretty often. Big ups from buddies you may or may not remember from high school in Florida. (-- Alex R)

[@WizdogC]

This was a great interview with Jason. I've been catching most of his appearances the last two weeks or so on all the other podcasts he's guested on. So it was nice to see mostly unique questions posed and the conversation taken in different directions compared to his other interviews.

[@Manic.miner2077]

They stopped listening to the customer, instead they are focused on safe profit.

[@TheWes.t]

I tried to check my library and couldn't get it. Might just buy the book

[@dziooooo]

Many libraries accept book purchase requests! Check if there's a form to fill out, they might buy the book and make it available to all readers in your area.

[@ThePequenocristo]

Jesus. Just buy the book. Support the author. Then donate it to your library.

[@praxp]

Looking forward to this. Let me know if you want to talk about the games industry and environmental sustainability! We are writing a book about it and the political economy of the industry as big tech is a huge issue that is super hard to address.

[@phithinker02]

I love that Adam's interviews often bring up a labor perspective. Also really appreciated Jason's commentary from that angle too.

[@danielpotts7462]

Triple Click listener signing up to the Adam Conover podcast. Great, thoughtful podcast!

[@humech]

I am one of those laid off gamedevs, I was in admin and not the actual making of the game but as support staff. Deciding in my 30's to leave that dream behind and find a new career. I do have an indie project or two that I plink away at slowly but it's over for me

[@daetros1626]

The problem with the Game industry is that there is no captive audience to exploit. Companies want to abuse their workers, produce "barely acceptable" garbage, scrape their customers, and generate maximum shareholder profit. Unlike almost every industry, there ARE STILL passionate individuals and small studios making indie games that put the milled out corporate crap to shame. They can't just charge $infinity for trash, so their SOP is failing to generate expected profit.

[@daviddobarganes9115]

Underrated comment

[@mrBignick-v9g]

In today's world you pay 70$ for a game and then once you buy it, you have to pay 20$ more for the ending.

[@Xenophagist]

Wrong!

[@brandongers]

Name one game where you have to pay for the ending…

[@Bobnumber6million]

​@@brandongersdiablo 4

[@nateolison7553]

​@@brandongers That's basically every game with an expansion pack tbh. They give you part now and you pay for the rest later. Even in fighting games... pay $70 for the game and then pay for the rest of the cast.

[@aprotosis]

@@nateolison7553 I suppose as long as we consider it the same thing when you watch a new season of a tv show or a movie sequel. How dare they not include the whole story in the original offering!

[@aungthuhein007]

OMG! Adam is a such big gamer! Absolutely loved this episode and re-discovering Adam.

[@Endless_Cola]

Jason might be a great reporter and writer, but he's also representative of so much of what's wrong with the games industry.

[@dziooooo]

38:13 the description of Blizzard's "college campus culture" and imagining working in that environment just made me recoil. A bunch of 20-30-something male "alpha nerds" working, living and partying together - you just know they had zero incentives to develop ANY kind of emotional maturity, basic adult skills or good personal hygiene habits. I can SMELL this concept.

[@ScudForEver]

They made the phrase "shit games" smell kinda literally.

[@gceskkng3568]

Yeah, but that was at the height of their popularity. They were producing games that people wanted to play just because they've added more women Now. Doesn't necessarily mean that they're better. In fact, it seems to be the opposite. The majority. Of gamers are male, so it would make sense to have the majority of your company male if you wanted to resonate with that demographic

[@dziooooo]

@@gceskkng3568 i don't even know where to begin. First of all, today this is a tiny majority. Something like 70-75% of women play video games, they make up almost half of all the gamers. Second of all, the video you're commenting under very clearly explains that increased diversity had nothing to do with the problems of the gaming industry and the quality of games produced - the key factor was greed and corporate mismanagement. Increased diversity (of gender, age, academic background, economic class, nationality - any category) is ALWAYS beneficial to an organization, unless it's managed and staffed by incompetent bigots. And third of all, the idea that the author needs to be from the same demographic as the audience for the work to reach that audience and resonate with them is just nonsense. Almost every person on the goddamn planet has spent their life enjoying games, movies, books and tv shows made by and about people who don't look like them and don't share their exact experiences. The only demographic that seems to loudly announce that it makes it impossible for them to relate to the story if it's not explicitly for and about them is cis white straight dudes.

[@sophiaperennis2360]

Those people made their greatest games. Emotional maturity brought nothing but mediocrity, and Blizzard has produced nothing but utter trash since 2010.

[@dziooooo]

1:31:40 this is such a uniquely American nonsense. Almost every developed country (and many developing countries) have stronger labor laws, worker protections and mandatory notice periods for employees. Mine is currently 3 MONTHS. Somehow, buisenesses manage to fire and offboard staff without much trouble. It may come as a surprise, but if you don't treat your employees like disposable and easily exploitable trash, they generally don't retaliate against the company during their last weeks of employment, when you can no longer threaten them with firing.

[@vexorian]

I know what Jason is saying at 30:00. But I don't know. Maybe it was good for Blizzard at first that they were able to become an empire thanks to the initial corporate buyouts. But maybe it was bad for everyone else. Maybe Warcraft 2 was good enough, and we could have gotten stuff equivalent to Diablo or Starcraft from other indie companies, which would then be replaced by other small indie companies. Maybe it's fine for a company to exist only as long as its main game and then just dissolve and have the devs join some other ephemeral company. I am tired of empires.

[@yorusama5011]

Love Conover's youtube! The old show he had was a ton of fun. But I def love keeping up with him here. I hope he will continually do well enough to keep providing content for me!

[@MrBaskins2010]

Damn I love that you got Jason on the show. He’s one of the best journalists in the country 💙

[@thomaskim2159]

Consumers are running out of money. Restaurants are going bankrupt. Walgreens closing 1,000 stores. Disney world attendance lowest since pandemic. Credit card defaults highest in years. It’s no wonder video games are struggling

[@alfgwahigain5544]

Housing - and rentals in general - is a huge part of the current financial crisis. Wall Street now buys up hundreds of thousands of family units and jacks up the rent. It makes it difficult for everyone and anything that needs to rent or own living or business space to afford things.

[@DrDreDay1724]

As someone who got to work with the Concord team for a few years, I knew it was going to be mentioned as soon as I read the title. Nice to know that I got to work on a piece of history, even it it became a dumpster fire. FWIW: I wasn't a developer, just provided central services support.

[@mragg99]

This ep coming out the same day Riot announces a second wave of layouts this year😢

[@sledgehammer5033]

Schreier is one of the best people you could have gotten to talk about this. Great episode!

[@Graghma]

That 30% transaction fee is indeed huge... it works out to be 50%+ of all the profit games make. Wish there was more discussion around all the money made in the industry that doesn't seem to make it into the workers hands that made the games.

[@XThanatos2X]

I don't understand why two clearly educated, knowledgeable individuals who know so much about the industry, are talking about the dropping sales of consoles and games but barely even mention the exhorbitant cost of these consoles and games post pandemic inflation. People dont have the money to buy these games anymore guys.

[@lmoore3rd]

I made video games for 20 years, got out, was becoming toxic. Wasn't fun anymore.

[@jtowensbyiii6018]

Where ya move to? Many of us don't have a safety boat to hop in

[@jaidev777]

Once a business becomes incorporated, it stops answering to its customers and starts answering to its shareholders. Its shareholders become the new customers, and the old customers become the commodity.

[@21CenturyBreakdownX]

59:30 : I usually stick to a $1-$2/hour of gameplay rule when buying games. Consequently, I only play indie games now. And it has worked out beautifully for me.

[@Crashh965]

This is one crossover I wasn't expecting to see this year. Loved the podcast and really appreciate the work you and Jason do.