The Squad Hotfix is a Tragic Step Backwards

[@randy438]

For the M27 clip, you gotta remember you're in a fortified position, not moving, and not getting shot at all while bipoded. You're going to have the upper hand on people there. And you're using a gun designed for accurate volleys of fire. But when you did get eventually shot at, you had a hard time hitting the guy. I think you were just playing enemies who don't know how to use suppression

[@crowz6898]

also you are bi-poded and firing 5.56 so there shouldn't be too much recoil on that part as well

[@grounded_5588]

And you are able to aim in quickly because the gun is already in your shoulder. All you have to do is weld your cheek to the gun. I hated taking 3 seconds to move my head 3 inches

[@4Pickledonions]

@@crowz6898people think when you bipod a weapon you fucking nail it into the ground 😂

[@RR-oy1yh]

..and also, the M27 IAR is actually a f**king laser beam irl. Thank god for this update, gun mechanics still aren't great, but it's manageable. Still finding the pace unbearably slow frankly. I also can't say that I've seen increased (or decreased) comms, either at the command or squad/local level. I also think that the people who say they feel like teamwork has increased sound more hopeful to me than anything, I can't say I've noticed. I don't know if slorgs' opening was tongue in cheek or not, but outside the disappointment from him, I heard a lot of enjoyment in his voice, and his team at the end of a round so...can't be all bad.

[@steventran746]

I remember that the ICO was meant for Project Reality esc gameplay. Where teamplay and coordination was a big thing and the mechanics being balanced. Not realism.

[@ii560k]

Although I do think some of the changes were overcorrections, a lot of it was fine imo. Players still work together, it's just less annoying to shoot your gun now. The M27 being a laserbeam also just makes sense, it's a 5.56 carbine with a bipod, it shouldn't bounce around like a 308

[@frostydrifter]

True id have to agree with you

[@deadpxl]

It's not about making it behave like it does in real life, it's about making the weapons/classes play their designed roles. There's plenty of concessions they make vs reality to better serve the game experience, exaggerated bullet drop for example, and the recoil was/should be one of them. By allowing accurate fire for any MG they effectively change it from a support/suppress role into what's essentially a marksman role with full-auto capability.

[@92ford13]

@@deadpxlbut you also want it to be bearable/playable.

[@ohnoimanidiot257]

@@deadpxlaye, the m27 IAR is supposed to be an accurate rifle, that’s how marines use it, that’s why it’s 30 rounds of .556 instead of 50 or 100 like the m249. One faction does not and should not exactly match another’s in role, capabilities, or technology, that’s the nature of it

[@P3RF3CTD3ATH]

@@deadpxl but that's how it would behave in real life if the person behind the gun has the bipod set up, they're all relaxed, they're not tired or out of breath, and they're not stressed out from suppression.

[@humphry9154]

arming distance / LAT HAT sway improvements were absolutely warranted with how aggressive and potent armor plays now. Its still impossible to shoulder your RPG and accurately shoot when under fire

[@deadpxl]

The problem is expecting to play AT like you did pre-ICO and expecting it to work, when you could just effectively react to armor. As an AT main I had no issue adjusting to pre-hotfix ICO which required you to anticipate, position, and coordinate for effective attacks. Keep your launcher out and ready more often. If you were suppressed, reposition. Coordinate for distraction and armor support while you got to a good firing position. But now we're back to just reacting to armor with little forethought at all. As if armor should just be the occasional inconvenience rather than a true threat to be feared. "But armor kept rushing points and habs" Yeah, use mines! Armor rushes the hab, hits a mine and loses tracks, you then flank and/or call armor assist to finish it off. But people didn't have a time to learn new strategies before OWI caved and made it more like it was before.

[@yeetboy9103]

@@deadpxl This is in no way a return to the pre ICO AT gameplay. You still have to play exactly as you did before the hotfix. Even with the arming distance change it is still difficult to shoulder when being fired at. Flanks and repositioning are still a must. I'm going to have to see footage of people being able to hit their mark with full suppression effects to believe you.

[@humphry9154]

@@deadpxl I really don’t see it as fully reverting to pre ICO AT gameplay, imo it feels like it’s in the perfect spot. Armor target gets called out and those nearby are able to reposition to a good firing angle if need be, but in no way are you able to sprint towards a position, crest a mound, then immediately shoulder and fire your rocket like pre ICO. sway and stamina mechanics still make that painstakingly impossible especially with scoped AT.

[@rayotoxi1509]

Thats the point of suppresion You aint gonna stay there in real life with a AT4 and be the most relaxed person on the world if a t-72 is spraying COAX near your You cant simulate the fear of death in games so games use the weapon sway to counter the problem

[@humphry9154]

exactly, i think thats completely reasonable and sway / stamina mechanics are in a good spot @@rayotoxi1509

[@Rahul-zl8xj]

Love your videos, but this video indicates how the hotfix is good. Running and gunning is punished. Pushing across a big road next to a hangar with possible enemies without covering fire is risky. Bipods remove a majority of the gun sway and recoil.

[@Za_Hando]

"Too easy some might say" Misses first shot, *and second and third

[@lunarrocks4165]

the slorgs radio era is the best thing that has happened to this channel by far

[@KBKriechbaum]

To be fair, machine guns are now a bit more accurately depicted. A machine gun isn't an inaccurate weapon to begin with. You can drop man-sized targets with an MG3 at 400m pretty good with irons. Anyways, i still think they NEED TO IMPLEMENT STRESS LEVEL as a bar that goes up with every bit of suppression a soldier is collecting and reduces at a certain rate just like stamina, just a bit slower. So in a nutshell "stress" would be a function that moves the game from old squad infantry to ICO-infantry.

[@ryen49]

GREAT IDEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@rayotoxi1509]

Then maybe you also could add a panic state if you character is reciving alot of suppresion For my example is you chracter would have alot of weapon sway and is visible shaking if you aim down scope

[@DirtyNuclearBDSMBimba]

Kids think that soldiers with combat experience can have "stress" and "panic". Pf. The only thing experienced soldiers can have is depression. Depression that evolves into fun when you join combat. Please don't give any advices if you've never been to, at least, an army. I don't even speak about combat experience.

[@2n974]

​@@DirtyNuclearBDSMBimbaDoes the crayons taste good mr Navy Seal?

[@derpypotatos4610]

We gotta remember the M27 irl was different weapon to what it replaced. Putting accurate bursts of fire on enemies. Though if they start returning fire it’s a bucking bronco.

[@DirtyNuclearBDSMBimba]

Bro, channel owner never held a gun, what are you even talking about. Tbh, I'm really surprised that he doesn't cry about DSHK and M2 recoil, because in "his professional military opinion" those guns should just make a backflip after each shot

[@prizrak636]

I mean I'm not gonna lie, bipoded small caliber machine guns are laser beams irl. I was deployed as a PKM machine gunner , and Lasered targets at 300-500m without a problem

[@mehmeh1999]

I don't see the problem. That's realistic.

[@thepeopleslibrary9345]

The arming distance change was pretty necessary. Before, the way suppression worked made it really easy for vehicles to ram straight into a position, and then be basically unkillable. I say this as a vehicle main who loves the update. Vehicles, both for balance and authenticity should not be constantly at point blank, and the only alternative would have been suppression changes.

[@NebulaOfNorth]

yeah for the changes the the anti tank weapons, they were and are still somewhat ridiculous, like heck i could go there and do the fucking aiming better why? because im actually trained conscript on finnish army, im actually trained as a squad leader, i had to learn how to shoot those weapons and so should the soldiers we are playing as, it makes no sense that if in crouched and i have already armed the anti tank weapon for example law (because thats the one i most extensively got trained in) it takes solid 5 to 10 seconds for me to at all be able to shoot through the sights, especially when the combat is way faster than real combat. the way i was trained in combat is very slow and defense focused, which is absolutely impossible, like fuck tanks and cars going in the forest, with the old arming distance you cant actually engage enemy vehicle in a forest because the visibility in the forest is worse than the arming distance, also the antitank weapons are highly underpowered. maaws heat or tandem on a enemy ifv and it just returns fire and drives off in a second. the antitank weapons are now better than they were before the patch. although i would argue their performance against armor is way too underwhelming

[@hunterno7704]

I qualified on and used the M249 in the US Army. Machine guns are used as "full auto snipers" because simply, they are. I could nail targets with irons out to 900 meters, with a spotter, in short bursts. Machine guns in Squad need to be the most lethal weapons, because they ARE the most lethal weapons. More casualties are caused by machine guns than any other weapon. I think making them more effective is more punishing to squads who cannot move and shoot effectively. It will force rifleman to suppress machine gunners and not just stare at the tracers.

[@lylefoley1779]

The larger caliber MGs took an even harder hit god forbid I hit someone with a PKP past 75 meters proned and bipoded. I don't understand what Slorgs goal really is. Does inaccurate crap feeling shooting lead to more teamwork? The people in public lobbies haven't changed and quite frankly neither has the amount of teamwork just as many good and bad games as before now I just feel frustrated trying to hit people even after I slow down and regain my stamina.

[@Steven-cf1ty]

The American machine gun doctrine really only seems to work because America has spent the past several decades fighting people who can't fight back. I'm sure things would look different if well equipped and trained armies started fighting mobile conflicts like Squad depicts, rather than just spending time shooting the odd insurgent.

[@NebulaOfNorth]

@lylefoley1779 yeah for team work you would need, squad talking same language, i m always talking language that is not my native language (because there is absolutely 0 servers that i know for my language), some experience and previous cooperation so they could properly communicate all the necessary info without a flaw. which clearly wont be happening when 90% of the time im playing with people i have never seen before or who never say anything

[@TheMusicftw1]

Yeaa dudes bitching about a really dumb thing

[@deadpxl]

It's not about making it technically 1:1 with reality, it's about eliciting proper behaviors from players for the designated *_roles_* they are playing. They already drastically increase bullet drop for that reason within the small gameplay area, this is no different.

[@Oscarmike247]

Gotta disagree here. Most of this was legit bug fixes. like the marksman. The fix is referring to how point aim did not work. The bipod issue was where you'd be stuck at high sway when you weren't supposed to. I don't feel like it really changed anything.

[@_Jaspy_]

Agree

[@saudade7842]

I mean, the M27 was designed for suppression through accurate fire. It was built with accuracy first, as the USMC believes accuracy to be more important than volume of fire for suppression. You were also in a perfect ambush position, so of course you'd perform so well. Also, the M27 is meant to replace the M16 and M4 in USMC service

[@marcusfanning7513]

I really dont see your point with the m27. Youre in a concealed, fortified position with a bipod squad automatic weapon with a bunch of enemies sitting out in the open in a field and youre suprised that they arent able to easily fight back lol?

[@Easy_Company]

And he says it's too easy and doesn't know how anyone can ever sucessfully counter this.. before being taken out by enemy forces a few moments later.

[@marcusfanning7513]

@@Easy_Company exactly lol. slorgs is pretty entertaining but ngl he's kinda shit at games 😂

[@ambientlightofdarknesss4245]

The bipod is actually something i really disagree with. If anything it PROMOTES slower gameplay and teamwork as you have to slow down, and think of a good spot to set up so you can support your squad and provide effective fire support. It actually incentives players to think more critically about their team and their environment, because they are rewarded with a very stable aiming platform to kill and supress.

[@toddfrombethesda6963]

Not to mention it wasn’t a feature, it was a bug.

[@TUROCK320]

You disagree with a tactical gameplay, slower and teamworking ? iam right ? ( i a a little bit confused)

[@toddfrombethesda6963]

@@TUROCK320 OP is saying bipods slowed the gameplay down by making players stationary to take advantage of its benefits. While other players on its receiving end would not be able to just run out in the open willynilly.

[@toddfrombethesda6963]

@@TUROCK320 when 6.0 launched bipods were literally bugged to have no advantage and slorgs thought that was a good thing. Slorgs is a loser who can’t actually play well and just wants to larp

[@iCookCrystalMeth]

alright last sentence was kinda crazy though

[@Dakun]

Still love ya Slorgs, but lets agree to disagree. I think the changes are still in line with improving teamplay while also not making squad the dark souls of recoil and stamina management. The devs are looking for what they think the balance should be between fun gameplay and strategic teamplay. This is Dakun, keeping it alright : )

[@joshuabrown7815]

The M27 clip is beyond fair, in hard cover, not being suppressed, using lots of short bursts and single fire with an IAR is an auto rifleman’s wet dream. Note that the exact same weapon minus the sight is used for both AR and marksman roles

[@alexmcmillan9595]

I agree with everything you said except the LAT/HAT stuff, I think those are a good change. The ICO inadvertently buffed vehicles since infantry is worse now but vehicles are just as powerful and they were already strong, making it a little easier to counter them is a welcome change since it took way too long for a rocket to steady before

[@BringerOfD]

no, arming distances should be as per real world numbers. Maybe scaled down just slightly to account for view distance and what not, but the solution should've been for players to adapt to tactics that allow their ATs to be ready in advance of being engaged by armour. Take up more dispersed formations that don't result in immediate squad wipes via a short burst of HE and increase the likelihood that their AT guys are far enough to take a shot.

[@ДушманКакдела]

​@@BringerOfDyou dont understand "real world" AT weapons or arming distances then.

[@alexmcmillan9595]

@@BringerOfD RPGs have no arming distance in the real world, they’re always armed they only have a plastic safety cap to be removed before firing

[@drbadbrain4714]

10 meters is far closer to realism than the previous distances. @@BringerOfD the actual minimum arming distances are not commonly stated RPG-7 various rounds, not limited to the PG-7VR have a minimum arming distance of 5 meters the RPG-28 fires a development of the PG-7VR, nothing to suggest a longer arming distance the NLAW, selectable arming distance from 20-100 meters M72 LAW, 10 meters AT-4, 10 meters carl gustaf, as low as 15 meters. you would expect fragmentation rounds to possess the stated 40 meter range, while shaped charge rounds would possess the lesser 15 meter minimum arming distance RPG-26, cant find any solid sourcing RPG-29, also uses a development of the PG-7VR

[@deadpxl]

Armor should be extremely powerful. Buffing infantry against armor has just reverted armor-infantry cooperation back to near pre-ICO levels, too. If they want to balance armor for its new power level they should look at increasing their spawn times, point costs, and raising their skill floors. It's already bad enough armor has been limited to early/mid Cold War capabilities for the sake of infantry. This was a bad move, especially adjusting both the stabilization AND arming distance in one go.

[@mefjuldz]

Honestly, this patch is the best thing that happend to FPS milsim gaming ever . It has some drawbacks but what hasnt? Let's just hope that this "arcady" part of the community won't review bomb devs to much and they will hold their line.

[@JJ112289]

Watching this guy say it's too easy to aim and missing almost all of his shoots lol.

[@THEchefdoggy]

*Uses bipod IAR (which is designed to be hella accurate with a bit of suppression capabilities) + gets suppressed while on bipod + misses 6 consecutive shots = Easy laser beam *Uses bipod, there's no insanely dumb weapon sway when ADS = "this update is going backwards" *Cries about insanely dumb weapon sway (so bad its like your character isn't a trained soldier and instead just an inflatable noodle man with a gun) being taken away = "Its these damn marksman, they need to be at least 500m out!" (I kind of agree with you to a small degree. The "Marksman" role, as in a semi automatic rifle with an optic is designed for precisely hitting targets from close range to about 500m. The "SNIPER" role is the one that is from about 500m and beyond. The devs have this a bit confused, so I don't entirely blame your thought process, but its still a bit bitchy.) *Gets off bipod with marksman rifle + while FULL STAMINA AND STABILITY + NOT MOVING + CROUCHED, yet still cant land a shot = "Significantly easier" " The longer you're scoped with a bipod makes the optic move around a lot, it annoys me. It should be the other way around, it shouldn't move". DAWG MAKE UP YOUR MIND ON WHAT YOU WANT OUT OF THE UPDATE. At 9:30, you only hit 3/6 rounds fired on enemies that were either not moving, or walking. How is the bipod easier? Those targets were about 200-250m out(based on your map that you opened), EASY prey for a marksman on his bipod with full stamina and no suppression. You experience what could be a MAJOR bug and only laugh about it, yet you cry about the changes to a bipod that you have yet to show is completely broken. *Half stamina comes out of a sprint, ADS with LAW takes 5 whole seconds to steady aim, RUSHES AND FIRES BEFORE HE IS STEADY AND MISSES THE SHOT = "Its much easier to aim. Almost too easy some might say, those some being me". You then took 10 seconds until you stabilized to make a shot, but the vehicle had left. You even admitted that it still felt fine, yet you made the comment that its too easy? "Another chance to miss", should've been put at the beginning of the AT section. You didn't land a single AT shot out of the 3 we were able to see explode. I didn't count the one where it was smoked out because we couldn't see it, however I think you missed based on the audio. Plus there would have been sparks that shot out everywhere, we should've seen them come out of the smoke. I do not count that one though. All shit talking aside, I do agree with a lot of things you say. However, the way you present it is either just as bad as the people crying that it needs to be more arcade like OR you contradict yourself like you did 90% of the time in this video. I agree that the update did need some time to breath and settle down before these changes came about. Bipods should not have a circular sway when you ADS, that's just nuts. There's also like almost no recoil when firing with a bipod, unless you're using something with a high rate of fire, or has a lot of recoil, so the changes are good. I think what should be done with bipods is that fewer kits should have them. Marksman and Automatic Rifleman should not get them. Sniper and Machine Gunner should be the only ones that do(if Squad sticks to this pre-set kit assignment. Personally I would like to see something like Insurgency, where you get to decide on what kit you get. Choosing an optic on a grenadier would limit how many grenades you can have. Stuff like that, just to a smaller scale than compared to Insurgency). Foregrips/handguards/accessories on rifles should have a direct impact on how the weapon handles, it should not just be cosmetic. Why does any rifle in this game need a laser if we cant use them? What's the point in having a foregrip if it doesn't help stabilize our weapons? I truly believe that your opinions and feelings towards the game(along with 90% of the people that love the ICO but hate the update) are pointing your aggression at the wrong things. Forget new factions and maps. Lets start actually fixing the gun play, starting with the small things like I mention in this comment. I'd love to talk more in depth about Squad and the changes that are wanted vs needed. This is my favorite game and the only game I really play anymore. Ive been here since the very beginning, like you, and will continue to be here until the end. I look forward to giving you more feedback in the future.

[@grounded_5588]

Legend

[@DirtyNuclearBDSMBimba]

Fr legend

[@johnwickbtw163]

As I've said previously: the channel owner is just a kiddo that wants to cry without any reason

[@TheMusicftw1]

Take away bipods for AR roles? You crazy? They'll be useless then.

[@THEchefdoggy]

​ @TheMusicftw1 The AR kit that is on every faction that is right next to the rifleman kit in the Direct Combat row? That shit should not have a bipod. A bipod is assuming you are a support role, a rifleman is not fire support. Honestly that whole kit should just be taken out altogether. Why is there any need for one of the rifleman kits to have the option to take the same weapon/kit(other than optic) as someone who chooses the actual LMG fire support role? It makes no sense. The Fire support role that's AR should also just be moved to specialist and combined with the MG. There's almost no difference in actual penetration. There's a small amount of actual damage difference, but does it really matter when you're landing several shots in a row? The difference is that you are downed from 2 rounds instead of 3. This plays in part to what I was starting to get into in the OG comment. There's an identity confusion/crisis with kits/roles and how they're equipped.

[@schmid1.079]

For the M27 you showed clips where the enemy were sitting ducks that didnt even make an attempt to shoot, and the one clip where the you got returning fire clearly made you miss your shots several times. And lets not forget you had a very favourable position in that observation tower over enemies literally in an wide open area. Someone surpressing that tower would have likely compromised that advantage though. But no, the update broke the gun. lol

[@Kasian02]

And M27 is literally supposed to be laser beam.

[@NuclearVgin]

Why do you even give attention to such a nonsense? Like, brah, the community made it's choice and forced devs to apply some changes and this situation is totally predictable and understandable. The dude:"Oh wow, digital terrorists, blah-blah-blah, I want to shoot air instead of enemy". The only thing I'm totally agree with him is that decreasing arming distance for ATs was a very bad and unrealistic idea. In other cases it sounds just like crying. Dude made random kill without scope:"Oh no, the marksman now is an ultimate close combat unit. ReFLeMAN WITH A BeePOD". Like, dude, you should apply to NYT for a journalist position.

[@TommyCubed]

​@@Kasian02its why they have a smaller mag on it too.

[@lylefoley1779]

​@@NuclearVginNYT comment had me rolling lol

[@leonferrarese5214]

Totally agree

[@architecteye6089]

To be fair, I own a few AR-15's and AR-10's. The 5.56 and 7.62 rounds are actually really manageable in those platforms. It's not hard to double tap human size targets out to 300 meters. The recoil in the new update was honestly not even close to realistic with the weapons it affected the most. Any M4A1/M16A2 platform rifles should be easily manageable because thats realistic. Any 5.56 or 5.45 rifles should be easily manageable as well. The recoil of those guns in real life are not atrocious like in the update. it's just not a thing. The SAW was basically unusable at any range in the game after the update. The entire of point of a those machine guns was to kill and suppress with accurate fire. The 5.56 just is not a round that kicks hard in any platform. Its a small round thats easy to shoot and thats the whole point.

[@firepower01]

The arming distance change was pretty good I think. I don't remember the arming distance in PR being anything too crazy either?

[@TUROCK320]

During 7 years of observation, it's a problem. It 's resulting in a "rocket an run". HAT or AT, now, have les "discipline" and engage Vehicule / armor like lonewolf. but no salt, we need time to obsev the beahvour of the players during the nex weeks / month

[@SentientPastrami]

Could be 25 meter I feel like. The arming distance teaches AT to pick good positions.

[@Podorozhn1k]

Also in pr you could one shot apc with hat

[@uncannyvalley3190]

@@SentientPastrami Bad argument imo. It's hard to "pick a good position" when you're doing inf combat and suddenly an APC runs into your building and starts spawn camping. You'd have to run for 15 seconds just to be outside of min-arm distance.

[@SentientPastrami]

@@uncannyvalley3190 oh no 15 seconds

[@ALEXISCLUTCH]

Completely missed the mark here, especially considering the bipod stability was a bug fix, not a buff.

[@caboose-kx8bi]

I like the update. If you are stationary, in a fortified position, while bipoded, then yeah, it's supposed to make your gun more stable and accurate. I don't get your point about the M27 The MG itself was designed for accurate sustained fire AND suppression And they barely changed anything too

[@TommyCubed]

the only thing ive noticed is that ironsight AT launchers are a lot more accurate with quickly maneuvering and firing

[@TUROCK320]

ahahah..only, almost...@@TommyCubed

[@TUROCK320]

MG befor the hotfix was stronger because of the "super suppress", nobody can't killed the MG in front. Actually the MG can be shot easely. This is a choice. depending what kind of players you are of course. i prefer a tactical game, slow manoeuver. Not a gun and run.

[@TommyCubed]

@@TUROCK320 I mean its a long barrel 5.56 with a bipod, i think my 12 year old brother would be able to handle the recoil.

[@TUROCK320]

@@TommyCubed what thé point ? 🤔

[@ErnestIsGaming]

As for the LAT's fuse range. Realistically LAT's has safety fuse of 10 meters, so it's a good change. It's weird though that they only changed this now, and not years ago.

[@User-gx3sr]

Having sway when bipoded made no sense before.

[@Gator___]

Agreed. Bipods shouldn't work against you. They are suppose to help stabilize the weapon.

[@ELeviathan33]

Bipods don't make you into a statue, your breath in your chest will still cause your gun to rise and fall with the bipod being a fulcrum point. The big problem was the magnitude of side to side sway(up and down should still be noticeable), and how nearly zero recoil benefit was given. The whole damn advantage to laying an MG's bipod down is letting the weight of the gun fight the recoil for you, while being secured better than your arm can. Source: Was USMC competitive marksman.

[@TheButterAnvil]

Have you used a bipod? You still have to control breathing and aim

[@User-gx3sr]

@@ELeviathan33 fair, thank you for the insight

[@lylefoley1779]

not much for a man sized target inside 200m @@TheButterAnvil

[@ttocsic1235]

tbf, the specific AR you're using has very low recoil anyway. even unbipoded it has very controllable recoil. i think the other mgs are still not as laser beamy

[@saudade7842]

It's literally designed to eventually replace the M16 and M4, so that explains the handling as well

[@elongated_musket6353]

I think the update is great. No more running-and-gunning and 1-man Rambo'ing.

[@ELeviathan33]

Slorg trying his best to do the radio show bit, but is clearly too pissed lmao. I don't mind most of the hotfix, what they did to the bipods is WAY too much though, we dont need the lazer guns back, we needed a functional bipod again, thats it, that was all.

[@ELeviathan33]

To clarify my opinion tho: The M27 gameplay you showed, the recoil was fine. It's a light AR in 5.56 bipoded, it's fine. You also demonstrated how effective suppression is now against bipoded defenders. Awesome, so much better than the Squad we used to have. The real issue: Full sprinting + zero stamina + LMG + drop bipod = Zero sway recoilless god. IRL, a bipod will lower the severity of side to side sway, but if you don't have your breathing under control, all a bipod does is turn your gun into a see-saw.

[@DirtyNuclearBDSMBimba]

You don't even understand what you're talking about... Please, consider joining US Army. You've never held even a musket in your life... Fudd lore

[@zacharycox2014]

I will say, the M27's bursts have an accuracy of 2-4 inches at 100 yards. It actually is a laser beam in real life. Same thing with the 240 with 1 MOA, especially on a tripod.

[@You-Need-Therapy]

Finally someone who understands… Thank you.

[@zacharycox2014]

@You-Need-Therapy having been on a machine gun team for a few years helps. Lol

[@sainterasmus4545]

An M240 Bravo has an MOA of 1? I find that very hard to believe, maybe if it wasn't used as a military machinegun. I doubt your average M240 has that good of an MOA, I would wager it'd be more like a 4-6 MOA, but that's just guesswork.

[@zacharycox2014]

@sainterasmus4545 me too. It's a fact though it can shoot out to 1100 to a point target in the tripod though so maybe not so unbelievable.

[@saltminer4463]

@@sainterasmus4545it’s definitely not 4-6 Moa it’s probably around 2

[@miguelisaurusbruh1158]

This was a good update please don't start to introduce opinions onto players as many niche youtubers do for gaming communities

[@leonferrarese5214]

Exactly this, couldn't say better, critize for the sake of critize

[@doktorduggieducker9615]

The Hotfix made the inf gameplay really good. before the update it was less fun then now.

[@UncleOji]

The walked-back stats update makes the game more playable. I don’t like being punished for doing anything besides standing still for 30 seconds. Especially when using a rocket on a tank, when you’re often moving in to destroy a tank, but you can’t aim properly because it took to long to stabilize your aim and the tank is long gone.

[@jaxyt94]

Slorgs, maybe find a way to go to a range and handle some firearms. That should clear up some of your opinions.

[@grounded_5588]

That’s true. This guy knows a lot about firearms for someone who most likely lives in a country where they’re illegal.

[@lylefoley1779]

he doesn't care about realism he just wants to relive his nostalgic PR days poor mechanics included.

[@uncannyvalley3190]

I'm fine with bipoded weapons being better than at launch. The military tells you to target leaders first and machine gunners second, because a machine gun with a bipod is so deadly. Before they felt useless as you could never kill anyone with them, now they feel great. Hard to use, but still very effective at killing.

[@grayfox3446]

Masterful engagement with this upload. Bravo

[@TooTallTim13]

Squad would have died without this fix. I was in the Marines and fired most, if not all, of the American weapons in this game. The sway was a wildly inaccurate depiction and scope shadow was insane. You mean to tell me that my fatigue and weapon handling was the reason I died in a 5ft CQB battle with my enemy point blank down my barrel? Yeah right! It was too much.

[@olekan1351]

I think the update is *SOMEWHAT* fine, but think about this: A) When the player is on full stamina and not suppressed, this is the kind of handling they receive, fast, accurate, easy. B) When the player is on low stamina and/or suppressed, they receive the old ICO handling. If they make the difference between situation A and situation B extreme, it'll really emphasize the fortify and support aspect rather than the run and gun aspect. I think the M27 clip was *mostly* fine, considering that you were fully in cover and steady. Can't say the same for some of the other clips.

[@plumpotato5642]

I completely disagree with the increased bipod accuracy being bad. Nerfed bipods were the one thing I truly disliked about the ICO. This is an FPS, and all of the guns should be able to kill the enemy when you get your scope on target. All of the other weapons felt like they could be used accurately whereas using bipods felt like I was just throwing bullets in a circle around the enemy and it was a coin flip whether the first couple rounds would hit them or not.

[@Vertexnine]

@6:65 that cinematic ending, holy shit. That was probably the most epic clip I've seen of squad

[@KrakenPipe]

"Role Unavailable" on a kit I'm already running is the bane of my existence

[@kellengirvin6641]

Ok so here is the thing. Sorry for the incoming rant. Have you ever shot or used any machine guns? Because I have. M249 is super controllerable. Using a bipod it is a laser beam. Hell I have accurately hit targets with an M240L while standing unsupported at 200m with tight bursts. A proper machine gun team with a T&E tripod using the M240 is more accurate and effective than a sniper team and can cover more ground. The M110 is easy as fuck to use and it accurate out to 800m. If you have actually military experience you know how easy it is to shoot these weapons accurately and effectively especially when supported or bipoded. So if you are asking for realistic weapons, this is how they are.

[@DirtyNuclearBDSMBimba]

Tbh, no one understands Slorgs. He wants realism but fights against realism. Like, 2 + 2 = 6 boy

[@apexhentz]

I like the fact that you miss when AT, just like I do. Thank you for including those clips. I'm still loving the ICO, though.

[@proparkour1603]

Nah mate, this hotfix is definitely a good step forward.

[@lucistired]

I disagree with your points here. There is still mad weapon sway, player speed is still slower, you can't double jump, suppression is brutal; the changes that ICO made were so extreme that they removed a lot of the skill from fights, and these changes just made it less annoying to play

[@RustyBear]

Idk but on Friday I couldn’t hit shots with my Ak on point shooting full auto 1-2 m. And now I’m shooting ppl at 10-15m with a M16 with point shooting and k1lling him. Idk when the update got live, but maybe I witnessed the change too

[@TacticalWestOfficial]

With the marksmen rifle, the reason the longer you are scoped the more sway you get is because of fatigue, it is more prominent when firing from the shoulder without a bipod or bracing the firearm against something. When shooting unstabilized you want to get the shot on target sooner than later as your arms begin to tire and even a little movement that is barely seen by the naked eye will be noticible in the scope, and the same sway of the firearm will look more violent when using higher magnification. Even when using a bipod you will be more stable in the first couple of seconds of looking through the scope, and after a bit the sway will get worse. There is no such thing as zero sway, there will always be sway when using both irons and optics, a good shooter strives to get their sway as reduced as possible, but the longer you ads the worse your sway will get. (It is still quite small irl and hard to notice with the naked eye, but it still affects accuracy.

[@dev1360]

In this video: someone who's never shot 5.56, much less a heavier 5.56 rifle from a bipod lol. It has almost 0 recoil IRL. And before anyone says: "iTs NoT sUpPoSeD tO bE rEaL"; yes it is. They specifically said to "make it more realistic" when they announced the ICO.

[@GeneralLeather]

" At is to easy" proceeds to miss every shot

[@Viktor18896]

Some of the fixes were quite alright, BUT in many games (since the hotfix) I had a weird sensation... Like everything it's fine but something isn't right. Hope to see that OWI keeps the work and keep making their game the PTSD Simulator we always wanted and not a BF alternative for MLG wannabe players that have their hands sweating as soon as they turn on their PCs. Nice video dude, keep up the good work❤

[@doublepauld7322]

And the people who complained are still complaining. At this point, every change is going to make someone mad. I guess they were right. rip squad

[@TheDDDeagle]

This is a classic example of using spiffy production to hide the fact that your point is completely wrong. Yea, i played some PR too, the point is balancing fun and so called realism.

[@MG40two]

KEEP IT COMING SLORGS!!!

[@sainterasmus4545]

Have you ever held a LAW launcher? In my country they are the smallest and lightest anti-vehicle launcher we have, we call them "panzer fists" because it's like throwing an armor penetrating punch at the enemy when you fire them. These things are incredibly light and easy to maneuver with compared to the AT-4 or the Carl Gustaf, with the tradeoff being that they don't carry as big a punch, it's my understanding that they can't even actually penetrate the armor of a modern tank, but that's just something I've read, lighter vehicles are no problem though obviously. So this is a very light weapon that you have the fortune of aiming by literally placing it on your shoulder, like a piece of firewood. The only possible explanation for a weapon system like this becoming unstable/unwieldy when trying to aim it, is if you are either severely depleted of stamina, or your musculoskeletal is composed entirely of spaghetti/wet noodles. If the latter is the case, that you are infact made out of the same materials famously used in Italian and Japanese cuisine, then there is a high chance a drill sergeant would have weeded you out of military selection, before you were ever in a situation where you had to face a Russian MBT. Lastly, with regards to your comment about it being too easy to use: so far into the video you have missed both times you fired with the LAW, essentially (if this was real life) wasting an entire 6 man squad worth of anti-tank capability.

[@jayphoenix2709]

I wonder how Squad would imitate an elephant gun I bet my soldier would cartwheel backwards when firing....

[@a_fking_wizard6294]

I find the update cringe. Guns are dangerous partly due to fact they're easy to use but I can't quickly aim and shoot some guy 10m away without painting a picaso of bullet holes on the wall behind him. Takes WAY to long to ADS with any of the sights. Every gun fight is either both parties mag dumping into walls while trying hit each other point blank or both parties camping because it takes 50 years to ADS

[@Jeremiah59]

This is probably a good compromise. But then it might end up pleasing nobody.

[@fuldaman1691]

man, i'm so happy you included the game as MEA where i was SL, couldn't hold back but laugh at myself

[@WoundedSk8er]

"I mean AT feels easier, but I mean I don't think it was that hard before." After missing pretty much every shot you took lmao after while playing after the AT buff. I am very happy with the changes, and I hope they continue dialing it back a bit. I like suppression and I like the PiP scopes, they sacrificed good gunplay too much in order to extend the time firefights take. That's not cool, I liked the snappy 5.0 gunplay way more than 6.0 gunplay. Also, bipods should be effective in stabilizing you rifle even when stamina is low. I welcome some of the ICO changes like I said, but the changes to the weapon handling and stamina/ player speed suck. People act like teamwork wasn't necessary pre-ico and the game was to "cod-like" and that is total bullshit. Anyone that actually played a fair amount of pre-ico squad knows this. Individual skill SHOULD be a factor just as top level strategic planning should also be a factor in winning a game, you can have both. A person that took the time to flank a position and set up an ambush should be able to take out a full squad from a concealed location, not kill the first guy and then not be able to kill anymore because the enemies fired with 100 feet in his general direction. I like suppression but suppression should be caused by at least somewhat accurate fire. Also, you seemed to be having fun still so I don't fully understand the griping... Well maybe I do as I continue to gripe about ICO stuff and still have fun. TLDR: I'm happy with the 6.1 changes and think we are getting closer to a middle ground between pro-ICO and anti-ICO people.

[@Efim141]

Being meticulously reactive to the players feedback and not having one's own vision never bit anyone in the ass.

[@firenative8509]

Turned the game from working together right back to run and gunning

[@nablynxsquad]

Bro all I noticed was it went from running and gunning with barley any working together(before ICO) to camp shitfest with people just doing nothing the whole game or just WALKING the WHOLE map just to try to attack, there was no increase in teamwork atleast for the majority of EU servers. This hotfix will help the game and it added more "Realism" in that a trained soldier can bring up his scope fast and have some grip of his gun like he's holding it with 2 hands instead of whatever we got from the 6.0

[@crispy9175]

​@@nablynxsquadthe US servers I played had a LOT more teamwork. I saw squads actually close together and I saw COD players rage quitting. It was perfect. Just needed light balancing and bug fixes.

[@SollomonTheWise]

@@crispy9175 looks like the CoD players infested the devs with their delusions sadly

[@justateddybear951]

@@nablynxsquad bro fk off with this "realism" shit. That was not the point of the ICO

[@crispy9175]

@@SollomonTheWise yeah :,(

[@TheSquidThatCould]

I disagree, this hotfix actually made scopes much more usable for me where as I would usually never use them and made infantry combat as whole much better.

[@timbo9828]

Response to other commenters: Yes, it looks jarring to have recoil and sway. It doesn't *look* realistic in FPV. But you have a mouse and keyboard. No M27 gunner IRL is ever going to have the bipoded accuracy to make the shots Slorgs is hitting in this video. Hit-percentages are ridiculously high in Squad and any other FPS compared to real life. What you are seeing Slorgs do with the M27 in this video is not achievable in-real-life. What we have are countless 2-second long firefights that could be interesting but are not because gamers INSIST on having an easy point-and-click adventure. Milsimmers ask for a MIL-SIM but cry if they can't be John Wick.

[@4Pickledonions]

Thank you

[@yournarrativehasexpired3201]

Totally agree that they did not give 6.0 a chance to breath(e) before 6.0.1. (edit: however I don't feel that the rollback has changed much, other than halved AT arming distances which IMO was over-kill. You can still tell who hasn't adapted to the overall ICO changes, too many still rushing all the time, trying to run and gun ahead of their squad (or completely separate from it) and that still gets you wasted)

[@maboilaurence8227]

Squad players asking developers to make shooting guns harder than irl with a blindfold.

[@zebedeezlyden6711]

Word to Slorgs!

[@ummohyeajames]

Gotta disagree with ya with this one unfortunately. I was so excited for the 6.0 update but it went just a little too hard. Shooting these guns with a bipod, prone, you shouldn’t have much sway or difficulty. I think this update addressed it very well, but I’ve only played a few matches

[@oracuda]

i agree with most of your criticism, but with the MEA marksman noscope, i think its fair for your chances to equal out at such a close range, whatever scope you have on your weapon and wether or not you have a bipod doesn't really have to matter in those fights. you still would be worse off at >10m cqb ranges

[@col.kernel]

1.5 weeks is not a very long time for players to adapt to a radical shift in gameplay - The hotfix was an overcorrection catered towards appeasing crybaby zoomers. If OWI keeps trending in this direction, it's going to result in alienating both players bases - The discord crybabies, and the new influx of people with style, class, and a functioning cerebellum.

[@TUROCK320]

Exactly. Thé haters and crybabies should not représent a majorité of player base, but apparently its affraid OWI.

[@marcusfanning7513]

Emplaced weapons like lmgs should absolutely have an advantage when using a bipod in a fortified position against clueless infantry running around a field lol.

[@ragersoprano9964]

Your 100% right

[@johnwickbtw163]

​@@TUROCK320They've paid money for the 5.0 game and they want to see the 5.0 game. This is totally understandable opinion. Will you be satisfied if you pay for a coffeemaker and tomorrow this coffeemaker makes you a cup of tea instead of a morning coffee? I don't think so

[@burgertanker7970]

Apparantly a 10% reduction in sway and making bipods not bugged is "an overcorrection catered towards appeasing crybaby zoomers". The fuck kinda logic is that

[@PatrickBatemanVietnamBush]

I wholeheartedly agree slorgs 😞😞 also, digital terrorists xD I just love these videos so much

[@ujugamestudio]

I don't know man, but it looks better than before...

[@diobrando2575]

The M27 shouldn't have high recoil, it's a 5.56 rifle with a bipod, it was chosen by the USMC on the principle of higher accuracy would result is less ammo usage vs the M249, leading to Automatic Riflemen who stay in the fight longer with greater effect for each round fired. I understand the need to somewhat exaggerate to promote a slower, more realistic combat pace, but at the same time giving a 5.56 rifle with a bipod horrible accuracy is very immersive, very cartoony. Also to note, the M72 LAW has about a 10m arming range IRL so it being lower is more realistic, which is fine by me.

[@rayotoxi1509]

I would just slow down the aim down scope time a bit and remove everything else from the so called "hotfix"

[@TrashFixation]

It's joever but PR is so back, baby

[@rye_nugget6309]

This hot fix helped some bit, but man the game is so much "easier" now again. Running around with a Saw is stupid gross again. Can just set up and kill so many before anyone can do anything. Not a fan of most of the changes in the hotfix and really does feel like a response to the crying.

[@ELeviathan33]

Right? It's one thing to make the M27 into a quick to deploy auto-rifleman like its supposed to be IRL. It's another to turn the SAW back into a toy.

[@johnwickbtw163]

Tf? Since when you can just run and gun with SAW? You can't even Q/E. Even a dude with pistol can kill you with ease if you rush-shift him with a damn SAW

[@sketchy5085]

Its too much i agree although an mg set up in your flank should absolutely be deadly. Machineguns still very much kill on the modern battlefield, they should be exclusively supression weapons. The m27 is a bit too much of a laserbeam though, your reticle should still jump erratically during full auto just over a smaller area than it did in 6.0

[@rye_nugget6309]

You've never played with a SAW pre-ICO. Like the Saw is still a lazer. Pre-ICO all you had to do was run and then burst first whomever you run across. I did it so many times.. At least with ICO I can run and gun with it anymore, even if being bi-pod now means lazer mode again. @@johnwickbtw163

[@thebulletkin8393]

The only thing here I would have appreciated was the change to at launchers, the rest felt alright. In most games I really hate rng gunplay mechanics, but in squad it fits in quite nicely with the overall gameplay design. It felt good having the machine guns require considerable time to line up since it really felt like it had a unique role. Honestly didn’t think they needed to to do this

[@slowestdespacitov8207]

The bipod could use a bit of recoil sure but before it was bugged to not give u any sway or recoil mitigation so maybe now its workingbas intended idk But the rest of things seem ok u still need to be more patient with AT but the arming distance change its a good butf to punish really agressive vehicle players

[@TheJubiter]

The playtests had much more skilled players compared to base servers. Balancing the ICO based on them resulted in an overcorrection for the large majority of players.

[@anthonywheeler5824]

The only problem I've had is there is way to much blur when taking fire from normal weapons like 2 shots and I can't see 5 feet clearly I love the update and direction it's taking but I knew it would still need work after it came out

[@RyanPatrick-u6y]

love your content, 100% disagree with you. But i just sub'd bc you're funny af. Keep it funky, keep it fresh!

[@BringerOfD]

IMO should've just been bug fixes. Let the ICO cook for a month at least, before making any adjustments or roll backs

[@lennnnnnn1]

To be fair, if we were to argue realism, of course bipoded weapons will just shred infantry if they are well placed. There's a reason why Brownings can be turned into literal snipers if you just slap a scope onto them, there's people who slap 8x and above scopes onto Brownings to turn them into snipers lol. The changes are almost miniscule, if ANYTHING, they just made LATs / HATs ultra powerful, made gunplay less frustrating to play with. Nothing has changed, it's just less painful to play the game. Placements are still going to win you the game no matter what so lol.

[@warster321]

the people that review bomb, DON'T ACTUALLY PLAY! hold true dev's, we NEED THE SQUAD COMBAT OVERHAUL!!!

[@mortalz9940]

the review bombers have on average 1,250 hours played

[@bored1492]

The fast scope in on bipod has to be a bug

[@plainkane5433]

shooting a 5.56 feels like ur shooting a 50cal. the 6.0 update sucks ass

[@Rammaras]

Slorgs i love you my man. I agree with you on almost everything but like this hotfix is fine. Fuck the Arming distance but the rest of the hotfix is fine

[@mrprophet9916]

You are huffing some serious copium or you were not getting ass blasted enough by armor before the hotfix with the AT changes. Was it the correct or right change? debateable, but something had to be done to combat the effectiveness of vehicles. Alternatively they could have increased the ticket count or spawn timers when losing a vehicle

[@priesty.]

I really don't understand what you're trying to say about the M27 how is that ADS way too fast? How slow do you want it to be? Complete L take on this one

[@baboonest]

Squad has changed a lot of new player who ask how to equip the silencer on gun...

[@Slappist_Cast]

I feel like scoping speed is good now. Doesn’t take forever to look through them.

[@RoBert-on1kb]

"im like a sentry turret" :D

[@Brandon-io9yj]

Imo as a MG main i did go from a sheer* surpressive role to a bit more laser beam after the hot fix. An an example of this is I was on the roof suppressing it in any fob and I didn't get many kills even though I had a clear shot on the fob but it allowed the rest of my squad do push up and get the kills themselves. After the hotfix I had a very similar situation and while I did get more kills it allowed people to respawn. And get a better position to kill me preventing my squad from pushing up I'm taking out the fob. So in my humble opinion the hotfix is to appease selfish lone wolves who want to get to get kill numbers on their screen. In comparison to the old ICO where I HAD to rely on my squad and it resulted in a better experience for us all

[@AK47sForEveryone]

Although I like the ICO and the direction the game is going in I disagree here with you. The m27 clip was you obviously nitpicking, I know squad is the spiritual successor to PR but its not PR2 so stop expecting verbatim mechanics. Still enjoyed the vid as usual though

[@michaelyoung3388]

Bipod was bugged on 6.0 release, it was supposed to reduce sway and recoil this is how they intended it it to be on release. Also those enemies ur up against seem to not realis they can suppress you back.

[@bruhlol2744]

While I agree with your points, hopefully this update somewhat dials down the heated controversy of the pre hotfix version.

[@tomaszskowronski1406]

Well, shit. We had fun while it lasted though

[@Scriptum.]

Please continue to cry.

[@jesstenhower4847]

I would hardly call the M27 a full auto laser beam... you were doing two round bursts in your clip, I could notice a significant group size/recoil pattern in any of the 3+ round bursts. Keep in mind you are BIPODED, shooting a 5.56mm round and were not getting shot at. Speaking from experience, that round does not have that much recoil IRL and being bipoded dramatically DOES reduce your recoil and DOES offer a much steadier aim, so it should do so in game too. Further, I have found it is hard to find good bipoded positions in game, so when you do, that should be rewarded. It still encourages a slower style of play anyways, playing into the idea of giving an advantage to those who are stationary (not running and gunning) and who have steadied their rifle. 5:25 "if I switch this to single fire it's probably a lazer gun" that's a bad thing how?? you are slowly shooting what is basically a standard rifle that just has full auto capability and a bipod, no foregrip... it's meant to be shot and to have an advantage while bipoded. Plus, it's a support kit with limitations in place on the number of people who can take it, so it's supposed to have a little bit more firepower and lethality than a standard rifleman kit's rifle. Are you really saying it should be INACCURATE when shot semi-auto?

[@jesstenhower4847]

Personally I thought bipods were nerfed and underpowered before this hotfix, and this is said as someone who has been loving the ICO overall and who thinks it was a necessary change. The bipod change was a welcome fix in my opinion. It was ridiculous to have the crazy group size and horrible weapon sway, even while prone (the sway being what truly bugged me far more than the recoil) that bipods had before. Using a bipod/tripod offers the most stable shooting position you can possibly give a rifle, other than having a rear monopod or bag under the stock as well (which are not things fitting for this game), or putting your rifle in a literal vice.. so it should mean something.