The story behind this photo is why the death penalty exists...

[@ijustwannagofast]

Joie was my counselor for a class trip to Headlands in middle school. She was such a fun person with a bubbly personality. Still blows my mind something so violent could have happened to her.

[@m.m.1933]

I'm so sorry you lost your friend in such a tragic way❤ he will have to answer in the afterlife... energy doesn't just disappear regardless of any religious beliefs... ❤ and I honor all religions though it's beyond that* in my opinion...

[@Glitter6804]

I always wonder if she is the same counselor from my 6th grade camp school trip because she looks so familiar mine was at Foothill Horizon in California

[@MszEveryShot]

Dannnggg 😢

[@SkateStar017]

I didn't know her but her energy seemed very happy and friendly.

[@Blaquebarbgamer]

@@SkateStar017Right, you can tell she was a vibrant young woman. ❤

[@LyndsieF]

As a teenage girl, my mom took me and my brothers on a trip to Yosemite. It was fun, but we all got some creepy vibes staying at the Cedar Lodge. Between the road and the river was a strip of land with benches and stuff. My mom went out there to read one evening and came back only a few minutes later saying she was getting creeped out. My brother wanted to stay in the hotel room while we were gone for a few hours and my mom got paranoid, way more than usual. She told him not to open the door for anyone, even if they said they worked there. When the maintenance guy came, she insisted on keeping the door open while he was there. All very unusual behavior for her. I never knew why, and neither did she. A few years later we saw on the news about this case. We were there during early July 1999...

[@laurat1129]

Your mom has strong intuition. Good thing she listened to it.😮

[@thebeautifulhobo1]

Wow!

[@LyndsieF]

Still wondering if the maintenance guy was Cary Stayner.

[@thebeautifulhobo1]

@@LyndsieF Yes he was the maintenance guy at the Cedar Lodge.

[@LyndsieF]

What I kind of vaguely remember was there were two maintenance men, so I'm not 100 who we met. I don't remember any faces. If I recall right there was some trouble getting maintenance to come because one of the maintenance guys was unexpectedly not there.

[@ByteMyWire]

I was wondering if you would cover this story. I grew up in Merced and knew Cary fairly well. We went to school together and he was in a clique of friends of mine. A few years after high school I hung around a girl I was close friends with and her boyfriend was Cary's cousin. Cary and the Uncle you mentioned "Uncle Jerry", we all called him, often came by the cousins house. I was always at their house and Cary came by often. I moved away from Merced and heard about Jerry's murder. This was only about a year after Steven Stayer died in a motorcycle accident. I was living in Denver when I saw on the news Cary was the Yosemite killer. I flew off the couch pacing say WTF WTF WTF. The Modesto police called me a week or so later and interviewed me about Cary. They did ask me if I thought Cary killed Jerry (they shared a house at the edge of town at the time Jerry was killed). I told them I didn't think so, they we're so close. I said that may have been the straw that broke the mental camel's back. I'm still not sure though. Cary had small mental issues like he cut is hair real short or else he would twist it around his finger and rip chunks out. He was never violent that I saw, just kinda strange at times. I don't remember him ever having a girlfriend. It's all just sad and tragic, the victims, The Stayner family, and even Cary himself. He acted on some twisted fantasy and ruined so many lives.

[@Seeker0fTruth]

Woahhhh!! Crazy. Thank you very much for adding your experience here. I wish you well and hope you’ve been able to fully process things. Be well, fellow journeymen & women! 🤍

[@platinumwarrior1309]

That would be crazy seeing a childhood friend on the news for being a serial killer. I would freak too ngl

[@LynneOrsenico]

Carol Sund and her daughter and friend were from Humboldt County where I'm from. This had a huge impact in our community.

[@nate_d376]

Yeah, I was living in Humboldt at the time too. It was a big deal.

[@smurfie8412]

You smoke lots of weed

[@okayretard6050]

That’s wild. Considering age these folks literally might’ve known my family.

[@troutfisher7182]

I'm from Humboldt too, a nightmare that hit close to home

[@jjsmama401]

Silvina was a foreign exchange student, wasn’t she?

[@GeorgeGeorge-yb2sz]

Excellent job of putting the story together and making some sense of it. People should know that wild animals are not the only dangerous animal in the wilderness. In fact I carry one or two pistols always when I am in the desert or mountains and it isn't for bears or lions. In my 79 years I have had two encounters, one in Canada at a rest area between Prince George and Prince Rupert where I used my shotgun to stop a man from robbing or killing me and my family, and according to the Canadian Mounties, the same robber had previously killed another person during a robbery. The second time was on the Smoke Creek Desert in Nevada when a nutcase blocked the narrow road until he realized I had a shotgun pointed at him from inside my vehicle and all I had to do was open the door. Conversation was over and i went on my way! Both incidents have long back stories, but my point is people are the most dangerous animal you will face in the wilderness. Thankfully I have never had to pull the trigger! I have had many other instances of people coming into my camp or stopping me on a desolate road, to supposedly ask me a question, but immediately realized I was armed, and they always forget what they were going to ask me? All of the encounters I have had have been in the middle of no mans land and that means you are the only law out there unless you choose to be the victim!

[@jamierupert7563]

Absolutely. Stay strapped. Always. You never know.

[@angelwings1979]

Apparently, the Stayner’s father didn’t believe in therapy. I think the whole family could have been helped but I guess we’ll never know.

[@TheDramacist]

My mom talks like that. Doesn't believe in mental health. What does that even mean? Must be a generational thing. Just ignorance.

[@charliekezza]

It's not a generational thing. Mum had me in therapy when I was 14-15 ish because I needed it. She was in therapy too. There is at least 5 generations of mental health issues in my family from anxiety to schizophrenia and several suicides. So even though mum missed a lot of signals (from age 6) she eventually got me the help I needed.

[@fernfunk]

@@charliekezzayour mom is a little unusual- that generation for sure wasn’t very au faît with mental health stuff, as a rule.

[@marynehra502]

It's true,it wasn't spoken about & people felt ashamed to be labelled with mental health problems,the same as domestic abuse,thing's just weren't spoke about like they are now​@fernfunk

[@Faristol7]

Well done your mum! I'm 67, and my parents steered clear of any discussions about mental health because of the stigma, l suppose. I had a grandmother who was bonkers (apparently tried to kill herself a couple of times..), a first cousin (from that grandmother's side) who had behaviour issues from a very early age​, and the my son was diagnosed with schizophrenia at 19 years of age after a psychotic break, while my own mother was struck down by severe depression at 65, and lived in a vegetative state until she was only 70. Neither of my parents gave us any inkling that there may have been mental health issues in the family genes - l had to deduce all that for myself later on in life. 🤷 @@charliekezza

[@beckyowens2586]

You probably get this a lot, but I think it's awesome how you shout out a charitable organization in every video and that the charity has to do with the video content.

[@MOI-qq8zc]

Right?!

[@KyleHatesHiking]

Thank you!! Eventually I'd like to start or join some sort of charitable foundation so I can give back even more. Might take some time but that's the long term vision. Until then I hope my viewers continue to join me in giving back, even if it's just a few bucks!

[@NatzTalk]

Agreed. I haven't seen a true crime creator do this yet.💪🏾💛

[@pantabhaaat]

@@NatzTalki think Stephanie Soo/ Rotten Mango podcast also does the same.

[@DustyHoney]

I just wish these videos had higher production value. It seems like he doesn’t do enough research, or like he struggles to write scripts. For example he calls the children “women” in this video.

[@alyrios]

I was aware of Steven's story, but never would have thought his brother became a serial killer. Crazy to think.

[@stephanienoblet8503]

I remember hearing about this from a tv show

[@resQfurppl]

same here! wow

[@teijaflink2226]

Crazy that he was pretty much the same as Stevens kidnapped.

[@arandomexplosion]

It was the opposite for me, lol. Crazy both ways.

[@trentashlyn14]

I had read the book I Know My First Name is Steven multiple times. I knew exactly who Cary Stayner was when I first heard it. It blew my mind.

[@kathleengeiser6956]

Yes, I remember this. We lived in Modesto at the time. It was a horrible crime spree by Cary Stayner. And the weird part is, my ex husband had worked with Cary in the glass business. He was in shock when he found out that Cary had committed these murders. Cary had lots of family issues, his brother was kidnapped years before by a pedophile. He managed to escape, and saved another child in the process. They even made a movie about it, I know my first name is Steven. Unfortunately his brother was killed in a motorcycle accident years later. So there seemed to be lots of tragedy following that family. Cary needs to spend the rest of his life locked up.

[@kathleengeiser6956]

Also, Cary was testing his tactics at the Cedar Lodge. Weeks before, he used his pass key to enter the room of the then Mayor of Modesto, Carmen Sabatino who was with his girlfriend in the hot tub. Cary must have thought that his girlfriend was alone. The Mayor yelled at him to get out! So that was a close call for both of them.

[@marievaleur7877]

Terrifying story! You'd think they'd be safe in a hotel, but monsters lurk everywhere. How sad and worse is that his own brother had been a victim of a kidnapping, so he knew the suffering he was causing first hand, and yet it did nothing to deter him. Always look forward to your videos!

[@oneoflokis]

Indeed! 🙁

[@mssmssmssmss]

I think there were reports that a relative had been abusive towards him in earlier years. I can't remember - maybe it was the uncle who was shot? Anyway, a very, very sick individual.

[@glendabarton1914]

Not safe anywhere. Never answer the door without verification.

[@valeriewestbrooke2813]

Lesson. Always be as close to the office or a busy area as you can. Predators look for prey who are separated from the herd.

[@BeastOuncelifeian]

This isn't terrifying, you are just mentally feeble

[@marygatdula2744]

Steven Stayner unfortunately died in a motorcycle accident not many years after he returned home. I believe he was married and had a child at the time of his death. It was really sad, after all he'd been through, to die so young and tragically.

[@carriemaxwell4695]

Yeah, he actually died the day my little brother was born, Sept 16th 1989. And now my brother has passed, last year. 😓

[@marygatdula2744]

@@carriemaxwell4695 I'm so sorry for the loss of your brother! My condolences to your family.

[@debshaw680]

Poor Stephen. Just when he was getting his life in order.

[@dinkvjr]

​@@carriemaxwell4695I'm sorry for your loss.

[@dinkvjr]

Omg thats unfortunate. Just when he was getting his life on track. Sad, very sad.

[@AprilShowers73]

I live in the area. (more specifically Eastern Madera County, the South Gate entrance of Yosemite) I remember being a part for the search team looking for Carol, Julie and Silvina. The whole thing as it unfolded was just terrifying! And then when Cary was arrested it stunned everyone. YES! Do Patty Hicks, this IS a crazy involved story and I also believe Cary had something to do with her murder.

[@lyngirllove]

You’re from my hometown, the heart of California! My mom talked about this a lot, she was about Joie’s age (a little older) when this all happened. Definitely grew up cautious on my mountain trips because of this horror of a man. I was a kid when it happened and I just remember thinking there was a monster in Yosemite

[@AprilShowers73]

@@lyngirllove even as an adult (I was 27 at the time) I thought there was a monster in Yosemite. Beings we are so close we have always spent a lot of time up there. There are areas of the park that still gives creepy vibes.

[@LilyGazou]

Thank you for being part of the search team. ❤️

[@SkateStar017]

Unrelated but there was a woman who recently disappeared near the area (I believe it was Modesto? I don't know because I have moved away from Mariposa for years now). The woman's name was Wendy Pullins I believe. I told everyone I thought she was m*rdered: I kept getting deja vu about the Yosemite Killer and something about Pullins case gave me the feeling her disappearance had something criminal related to it. Turns out I was right: some man k!lled her, hid her car, and repainted her car so it was hard to find.

[@AprilShowers73]

@@SkateStar017 YES! Wendy was actually from my home town.

[@holeymcsockpuppet]

Awareness is your greatest weapon against being a victim of crime.

[@teijaflink2226]

Specially so you don't fall victim for psychopaths and narcissists.

[@ROBERTHOCKER]

That is Absolutely correct

[@kishascape]

Also not opening the door. Unless you specifically asked for food or someone to stop by just forget it.

[@no_peace]

​@@kishascapeyou have to open the door for maintenance, at least now, in California it's the law. But you can call the desk, you can be armed, you can leave the door open, you can leave the room etc. You can stream it to a loved one, you can get the person's name/description and tell it to someone on the phone. We're so much safer than we used to be because of these things

[@dorothylewis1207]

Carrying what the 2-A is about definitely will keep you safe.

[@leslenedella-madre]

I was in a small group of women who went to Yosemite after these horrible murders and did a healing ceremony there for all four women. We then later met with Joie's mother in a cemetery in our town in No. California where her remains were buried and spent time with her mother who shared with us stories about Joie. Her mother was deeply touched by us and we were by her. The pain, of course, is never gone, but sharing her mother's grief with her was one thing we could do to let her know how much we cared.

[@holoholopainen1627]

I feel The Pain !

[@RepentAndBelieve43]

🙏🏽

[@janiesippel225]

This was such a sad and terrible story. You would think theybwould be safe in a hotel. Never open your door to strangers when staying in a hote/motel etc....😥

[@thebeautifulhobo1]

I have worked as a traveler for years and hotels are dangerous! Never open your door is good advice. Be vigilant when moving from your car to your room. Ask for a room that is visible to the office area. Check the area outside from your window before exiting your room . Pay attention. Predators target folks in hotels.

[@Ooh_PieceOfCandy]

That is insane that he was jealous of his poor brother who was kidnapped and abused for seven years! He has to be a sociopath. And yes we would love to here about the potential fifth victim!

[@mssmssmssmss]

A psychological report prepared before his trial found lots of problems ....

[@harleyquinn3589]

Man... I guess I'm triggered or something cause I was kidnapped at 9yrs old. I was only gone 7 days but that was bad enough... makes me sick that someone could be jealous of that.

[@EsmereldaPea]

​@harleyquinn3589 - how terrifying! I'm so sorry you went through that. I hope you have gotten the support you need. ❤

[@shuabshungne8043]

I guess he was just jealous of the attention, pity and sympathy his younger brother received after his ordeal, not of the kidnapping and abuse. Still mind-boggling to become a serial killer because of this.

[@EsmereldaPea]

@shuabshungne8043 - IMO, he very likely would have become a serial killer anyway. He had fantasies of killing before his brother was kidnapped if I recall the video correctly. But his feelings of being left out might have sped up his inclinations or made them more violent? IDK. Just spittin' into the wind here. I'm not a psychiatrist.

[@ShushLorraine]

So odd. I was just thinking about the boy who went missing and then bravely rescued the second boy earlier today. Also, my daughter worked at Yosemite and lived in the employees' quarters. She told me about the second crime and said there were others. But at the time, we hadn't heard the ending. When I listened to the brother's kidnap story, I do remember now that his older brother had committed murder.

[@uptonogood1893]

I remember the tv movie "I know my name is Steven". If the details of that were right, Steven didn't escape because he was afraid exactly. He was told his father was dead and his family didn't want him anymore. And as a small child he tried telling adults but they assumed he was adopted and everything was fine.

[@universalpain7216]

Your stories are depressing but I find myself watching your channel often. I find the way you articulate compelling. I can’t quite pinpoint what it is. Wishing you continued success.

[@debshaw680]

My daughter’s best friend started working at Yosemite. I sent her the books about Cary. She didn’t stay there long.

[@peggyhill8539]

I’d forgotten about this. I grew up in the Bay Area and remembered everything about Steven. Just, wow. Those parents have been through it. Those women…it’s horrible. I do appreciate how you are always very respectful of victims and families. You seem like a genuine good human. Love your reporting. Keep up the good work.

[@ginayoung130]

I'm continually impressed by how you tell these stories. I know this case well (I've been consuming true crime for probably 25 years) but I still watched cuz you have a unique way of telling stories. Very even keeled and straightforward but also with the sensitivity it needs. Great video Kyle.

[@denniscatanese4846]

It's hard to imagine that a killer's first murder would be a triple homicide. He probably did kill before and felt emboldened when he wasn't caught.

[@Dani-il9wh]

He actually admitted that they were killed cuz the ppl he wanted to kill (his sometime girlfriend and her daughter) had gotten a visitor, so he couldn't kill them. So he went back to work and that's when he went after the mother and 2 girls.

[@IntrepidFraidyCat]

I remember when both of these stories happened. But I had no idea of the connection between the two! Yikes!

[@scorbunny7737]

Same!!!

[@edwardbenton4428]

If you read about, it only gets crazier. There's a connection to Patrica Hicks, a crazy cult leader, and other deaths he is suspected of, including an uncle that one story I read that said he was abused by.

[@4niasomnia573]

This case is so sad. The entire family needed therapy after Steven went missing and returned. Steven developed drinking problems after his return and was kicked out of the family home. He then passed at 24 after a hit and run motorcycle accident. Cary was extremely troubled as a result, and, imo, he should have remained in the mental institution after his nervous breakdown. That could have prevented what happened.

[@SilentThundersnow]

If I remember correctly, Steven was already an alcoholic when he got home, because that horrible creep gave him alcohol the whole time. I don't know how you get those monsters out of your head. They threw him out after all he went through??

[@4niasomnia573]

@@SilentThundersnow yep. His father specifically threw him out because of behavioral issues and his drinking. While he had been allowed to drink with the creep, it hadn’t been used as a coping mechanism yet. He was pretty relentlessly bullied at school too because he had been molested.

[@SilentThundersnow]

@@4niasomnia573 so sad. Thanks. I hope the creep didn't get the usual slap on the wrist. And what a dumb dad he had

[@4niasomnia573]

@@SilentThundersnow Parnell only got 5 and was paroled after 2. (His second strike, the first was a sodomy case a decade earlier for which he served four). It wasn’t until his third strike that he received any real time, and he ended up dying in jail.

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

@@4niasomnia573 Wow, that's disgusting! It just shows how little the justice system understood (understands?) the very real damage caused by SA, and how little women and children are *really* valued in our society.

[@dkhnova]

Any time a maintainence man comes to your hotel room, you should leave the room, go to the front desk, and talk with the front desk clerk, mentioning that the maintenance man is in your room. See if the clerk can confirm that the maintenance man is doing what he's supposed to be doing.

[@valsptsd814]

There would have to be a reason for that to happen while there are guests, right?

[@fosphor8920]

@@valsptsd814 Yes. Don't blindly trust people even in uniforms

[@cynthiablack2903]

This is such a dark story. I heart hurts for the victims and their families.

[@gthktty666]

imagine being jealous of the attention your brother gets after he escaped 7 years of repeated rape. shows how emotionally immature and self-absorbed cary is/was

[@maritzabrown6741]

Not trying to justify his actions but you have to imagine growing up he was probably ignored because everyone was so fixated on his brother.

[@edwardbenton4428]

If you read about him on the internet-Google. He had a broken brain right out of the conception factory, nor to mention there were family dynamics that probably helped make this monster. There is a more recent photo of him , it exudes diabolical killer. ATB

[@artdevivre2]

Absolutely

[@artdevivre2]

​@@maritzabrown6741thats how psychopathes can have appeals even after horrible crimes. Blaming on the childhood.

[@mom.left.me.at.michaels9951]

​@@artdevivre2 it's also how we get more pyscos though. Not saying anyone should escape consequences, but knowing what causes psychological problems is the first step to stopping them before they escalate. Most people that are in prison for any reason didn't have happy childhoods. You can't say there's no correlation. Saying that "they are just like that" excuses the responsibility of the people that actually created the monster and that's not okay. I'm SO glad they are finally starting to investigate parents and how kids got weapons after school shootings. At first I thought it was harsh, until I saw the TedTalk of one of the mothers of the Columbine massacre. She was evil. She definitely should have suffered some consequences for abusing her son, and then handing him access to an arsenal to go release his anger on whoever was unlucky enough to be at school that day.

[@paulaunger3061]

There are lots of things I love about your channel, but one of the main ones is the great respect you show to the people in your stories. I think this kind of video is important - it's important to remember the dead and why their lives were cut short. But so often it's presented for entertainment - yours is given as history. Thanks and well done.

[@elizabethmcglothlin5406]

When I saw the thumbnail I was pretty sure I knew the case. Parks and vacations seem so harmless, but I guess nowhere actually is. If jealousy of his brother factored in, there's something strange about the family.

[@valmikabeneteau7229]

The brother died 10 years before this happened in a motorcycle accident.

[@heathernikki5734]

He was ignored during childhood bc of his missing brother getting all the parents energy is what people have said. And his dad didn’t believe in therapy so nobody got any help.

[@augustsnowfall5189]

He said he wanted to kill women since the age of seven. So the guy was always a ticking time bomb.

[@aruvielevenstar3944]

In the Netherlands, years ago two young women ( Lisanne Froon and Kris Kremers) went to Panama en mysteriously vanished and the only thing they found was a foot and a rugsack. I thought that was the most horrific and disturbing hiking case I have ever heard, especially because they found the mobile phones of the women and they found really disturbing last photos of the women.

[@readdeeply9278]

This remains one of my favorite cases. 100% and after years of research, it was the swimming hole guy. Most tubers and writers fail to mention that the girls very much returned from the trip everyone was told they went missing on. That's called intentional sidelining. Quite a few people saw them return, and spoke with them. In any event they were then met by the lady's son who they were staying with, and he suggested the girls accompany him to a swimming hole to cool off. There are very creepy social media pictures on the host's son's account. In one he is standing over two unresponsive or sleeping women, holding a wooden club, a grim look on his face. The women are posed identically, lying on their sides, hands folded. It's creepy. What would YOU make of that? it was the swimming hole guy. I think the photos were taken later, after they were dead. Notice not one of the night pics is of the girls, just silly random pictures meant to throw everyone off. There is only one pics of a human, but it's the back of someone's head, and it isn't proof of life. The pics were a red herring. And it almost worked. Too bad the authorities are more concerned with commerce and tourism.

[@Chris-wn9hi]

​@@readdeeply9278Do you have any articles to back your story up? This case has fascinated me, and I know a profiler said they got lost, which was bs.

[@aruvielevenstar3944]

@@readdeeply9278 I saw a yt video recently on which the case was meticulously spelled out what very probably could have happened and it was like you said, but I thought it was the tourguide who was a very big suspect. Lots of people were mysteriously dead who knew to much, I am quite sure the police are corrupt as hell and know exactly who killed the girls

[@JustSara376]

Stories like this don’t scare me away from doing things in life but it sure makes me hopeful that I’m able to defend myself if i ever need to 🙏 pretty scary stuff!!

[@laurynharrell8529]

I appreciate your conscious utilization of “gentle language”. Because it allows me to sympathize with the nature of this incident without getting caught up in sensationalized violence, fear, and dread. Thank you for choosing to present this event this way.

[@LeslieHamod]

My husband and second son are both with the FBI. They work on call 24 hours a day including weekends and holidays. They often are away from home for long periods of time. They work hard and take cases very personally. I want people to know how hard they work.

[@leonessity]

I think most people are concerned with either the victims, the victimology, the predator and/or their dynamics, but it is rare that there is ever much follow up with regards to the officers involved. Be it local yokels, right up to the federal agents, there can not be any doubt that they too, are affected by the severity and shock of the cases that they investigate... I often wonder about the therapists and counsellors who are tasked to listen to those officers and their stories, too. It must be hard on their psyche, too!

[@CindySeifen]

We love the FBI but I live here Central Valley this story broke us all and just hearing Carol Sund name memories came rushing back of Steven, Timothy White Sicko Carry who also killed a female Park Ranger....I'm in tears now thank you God Timothy White is still alive I hope living a happy life.

[@patriciaroberts1034]

I would like to thank both your husband and son for their service it requires a lot of sacrifices and determination to do their jobs. They also have to deal with all the horrific things that people do to others. You also have made lots of sacrifices. Thank you

[@LeslieHamod]

Thanks for the positive comments. I have been so proud of my husband and son. They have seen terrible things and never give up. My husband also is a veteran after the twin towers. All my appreciation to you all.

[@Nostalgic_1]

​@user-cy9hj1ih2h My late husband worked in law enforcement for his entire adult life. After all of the anti-police issues, it surely made an impact on how he felt that people may have perceived him as a law enforcement officer. He was definitely one of the good ones as I'm sure that your husband and son are as well. Prayers for their safety. 🙏

[@tracychallice1099]

This is why I love following content from so many different niches, you hear these super interesting stories that are almost common knowledge in their communities that you never would’ve heard otherwise. So happy to see how much you’ve grown the past few months, you deserve it

[@tedtalksrock]

Terrifying story. Sending sympathy to the family and friends left behind. ❤ How horrible and unfair.

[@PatriceTaylor-u4i]

Please do a video about Patricia Hicks. I worked in one of Yosemite's high camps as a teenager and feel awful that such horrendous crimes happened in Yosemite, a beloved park Thank you for leaving out the most gruesome aspects of the murderer's crimes.

[@MissChiefs420]

It is very rare for me to find a page that holds my undivided attention. Your story telling skills are phenomenal and I love how respectful you are towards the victims. Def found yourself a new fan here!❤❤❤ RIP to those who lost their lives because of Stayner’s actions either directly or indirectly.

[@twitchiewitch1]

I live right outside of Allegany national forests in NY, been going there all of my life & continue to go almost everyday w my rotty. We even go hiking at night. I do not fear anything up there because I'm well protected by my best friend who definitely alerts me to anything out of the ordinary way before the out of the ordinary sees us & I also carry extra protection because I'd never want my dog to give his life for mine. I've definitely been spooked a few times in broad daylight tho, when my well trained, well socialized dog decides that he just doesn't like someone we pass on the trail because he usually loves everyone. It certainly perks my senses up & makes me wonder what that person was thinking.

[@luciemarinov129]

U are still in danger hiking alone , ur dog is great protection but a killer could just shoot him as well as you. U are taking big risks also hiking at night, u are looking for trouble! U have been lucky so far!😮

[@mkb7013]

@@luciemarinov129I completely agree with you. Never get too cocky about your safety.

[@BloodguiltyGaming]

Long time watcher, first time comment. Just wanted to tell Kyle thank you and that I really appreciate all the hard work he's doing to bring us these stories

[@midnightharvest3065]

I seen this story on Mr Ballen and it's still terrifying to listen too

[@sTraYa249]

I saw it too😮

[@catherinewilliams3850]

Me too.

[@midnightharvest3065]

@@sTraYa249 This just terrifies me. Main reason I carry a pocket knife when I go walking

[@sTraYa249]

@@midnightharvest3065 I understand! Me....I just stay indoors 😂

[@midnightharvest3065]

@@sTraYa249 😂😂😂😂. Me too tbh.

[@aurorabrooks3000]

I want to thank you for telling these stories without censoring anything. I hate it when people make videos about murders/crime/gruesome stories but censor everything leaving you to guess what the story actually is. I hate ad-libs, and many times I'm listening to the video more than I am watching it, and when people start leaving gaps in their stories I leave the video and click on Do Not Recommend Channel immediately. Thanks for being such a good storyteller! I just found your page recently so I'm excited to see what else is in store.

[@no_peace]

The movie about Steven was called "I know my first name is Steven" because he didn't know his info, including his last name or address, he was totally vulnerable to that guy. For many reasons he couldn't have escaped for much of his time there. His story was part of the push to teach kids their own info (and parents' info) at a young age, over and over

[@lizo2986]

Thanks for your great coverage of this story and tying up all the loose ends..

[@ConcreteAngelx3]

My family stayed at the Cedar Lodge summer of 2000 … I was only 10 so I had no idea but my dad apparently got a good deal and later found out it was because those 3 women were murdered from there a year before… there were signs on the door not to open your door for unexpected people

[@adamweb]

Recently found your channel and have been binge watching past episodes... I like your style of delivery much more than other mystery/horror channels that are overly dramatic and dumbed down.

[@knutelindstrom3716]

I remember this story, I think it was from MrBallens channel, but every video has a different way of telling the story, so it’s almost like hearing it for the first time, until the recognition of hearing certain details makes one realize it’s part of a story they’ve heard before, but with more information & details, as over time more information from said case become available! Therefore, it’s like an update on stories that are already out there! So it makes every new version of the story an update!

[@RedArremer]

To be fair, Mr. Allen embellishes his versions a bit. I remember researching one of the stories he covered, and there were details he added in that simply didn't happen.

[@knutelindstrom3716]

That makes sense, as he does have other people writing for him ever since he got hugely popular & successful! I used to think, “how would he know what the person was thinking or doing?”, especially since the person was the victim & never got to tell their side of the story! John’s mother does a lot of work writing for his podcasts, or at least used to when that first came out too, but now he’s got a whole team! John B. Allen, sure did come a long ways from the Navy to become MrBallen, but he’s admittedly a great story teller, & has movie star good looks too, ngl! LOL I like Kyle’s style of just presenting the story as factual based from all the information that was available to him, & adding a little bit of context with speculations & possibilities of the “why” these things had happened & asking questions that many of us are usually thinking, & then saying “let me know what you think in the comments below”, especially for his videos that are on the unsolved disappearances! Everyone has their own style, but the different varieties & interpretations sort of help paint more of the picture in a sense. (I’m not good at metaphors!lol). I like the way both told the story though! Everyone has different styles, but as long as the factual information is accurate, the rest can be like “Hollywood”, or like, “News Media”, or just straightforward! Everyone can do a great job of presenting in their own way!

[@DucoHall0205]

I LOVE your ability to tell a true crime story! Keep up the great work!

[@ldawg7117]

Not only is it a reason the death penalty exists, but it's also a reason why I'm always absolutely bewildered when people say such utterly stupid, naive shit as "nobody deserves to die.."

[@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax]

It's called humanity. You should try it sometime.

[@chria7247]

​@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax, oh mighty self-righteous 'human'. There are many evil 'humans' in this world that if disposed of PERMANENTLY, would make this world a much better place. How's THAT for your "humanity"? Hmm? 🤡

[@ldawg7117]

@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax🙄 people like you are absolutely insufferable, wake up. People that have no fucking humanity. I have plenty of humanity, I'm just not naive as fuck. You don't live in reality.

[@HoneyStarfall]

​@@Rage_Harder_Then_Relax because they think a horrible murderer/r*pist deserves the death penalty, you think they don't have humanity?? I think you may be the one out of touch here

[@olgam601]

Amazing that that person saw the vehicle of Cary Stayner. I am pleased that he won't be able to harm anyone. I like a lot the way you narrate this case.

[@Out_GalliVANtin]

I probably shouldn’t watch this while wild camping in a national forest…but I’m gonna watch anyway.😅

[@scorbunny7737]

You cray-cray!!! 😂

[@Out_GalliVANtin]

@@scorbunny7737 😂Maybe. But at least I have my 🔫😉

[@thebeautifulhobo1]

I would too! You are so funny!

[@holoholopainen1627]

Nothing happens there anyway !

[@emilym3053]

Wha, you dare devil 🤣

[@stillhere1425]

On the Institute of Anatomy KZbin channel, there’s a video specifically about psychopathology and the brain. The doctor there said that both psychopaths and sociopaths, though they might have a propensity towards pathology, must experience a triggering traumatic event for the disorders to manifest themselves. Obviously the kidnapping of his brother would have been scary to the young boy, not to mention the sudden shift in the atmosphere of his family life. Cary may have been fantasizing about killing women at 7 years old, but if Steven had not been abducted, Cary might never have acted on the impulse.

[@erikasantoshafitness348]

They weren’t « three women. » They were a mom and two kids.

[@honeybadger3570]

Good Lord lefty, they were 3 females which, last I checked are women. 1 Mother, 1 daughter 15yo of the mother and 1 female friend of the daughter that was 16... 3 WOMEN unfortunately for your poor wittle feeweengs saying such a long description each time they are referenced is redundant, unnecessary and wrinkles smooth story flow. The creator gave each victims names and details within the story already Don't act like this creator isn't very respectful of the victims

[@MissChiefs420]

@@honeybadger3570I was pretty shocked to at the semantics game being played here too😵‍💫I almost watch only true crime content and dude was very much respectful of the victims more so than a lot of other bigger true crime channels

[@Leeniebean]

there were four women, in total. why did you leave out the last victim? good grief

[@Tric1aaaa]

so 3 women?😂

[@no_peace]

Girls aren't women. They're kids. What even are these responses?

[@SpacePriestess]

I'm sorry to be That Guy, but Silvina was 16, and Julie was 15 - they were both still children, not "women." Please don't refer to Stayner's *underage child* victims as women. Thanks.

[@kieseley]

Sadly, this happens a lot. The adultification of girls, specifically to placate the discomfort that arises from knowing what their abusers / killers did. It is so important that we protect our kids, even in death. So please keep being “That Guy.” Rest in peace Julie, Silvina, and Carole. I’m so sorry that a disgusting excuse for a human took you away from this world 😞

[@justicehayes4715]

Thank you for being that guy. I agree with you.

[@blueshoes5145]

Underrated. Thank you. Either you are a dad or you are mature beyond your years.

[@Liberal.Linda.]

​@@blueshoes5145 Yeah, because only a MAN could possibly have that kind of insight, even though their name is SpacePRIESTESS. Yeah, a woman couldn't possibly have that. In other words: check yourself and your biases. Please.

[@Liberal.Linda.]

@SpacePriestess Yet another agreement. Please keep being "That Guy".

[@margeebechyne8642]

I remember when this happened. I would never go out like that without bringing a weapon. Not just to protect myself from the animal predators, but human predators as well. But I'm born and raised in a big city, so . . .

[@dorothylewis1207]

Agree 100% please defend that Right, "THEY" are working hard to take That Right away, God Bless America & 2-A!

[@dorothylewis1207]

2-A All the Way 👍

[@Med_Zeb]

I appreciate you not saying all the gruesome details.

[@amynapier3551]

I remember Stephen's story. I don't think Cary's brother and his suffering was the one trigger that led to these killings. With social media and more security measures in place, disappearances and murders in the past might have had a different ending. It's not going to prevent or deter all bad things from happening. However there are ways to track things quicker, have video evidence in key locations, and have personal tracking devices. With social media, the public can put the pressure on so that missing persons can be identified, tips can be reported to authorities and investigations are not called off too soon. All this technology can assist national parks, rescue & recovery teams as well as law enforcement.

[@Ooh_PieceOfCandy]

I live in the Sierras. They are beautiful, but I'll never go out without protection. I've been listening to these awful stories for years and the common denominator seems to be that none of these people had protection.

[@lorigbasmajian3843]

Why?

[@dustyc324]

Condoms weigh almost nothing. It's worth it to carry one around. Stay protected Bros.

[@lanab4989]

I've seen these murders covered on a different channel, but video offers a different perspective and adds new (to me) details.

[@strummercash5601]

I know! Since I’ve become more immersed in true crime stories, I have about a dozen channels I really like. It used to be, if I saw the same story, I felt almost let down. Then, I realized each creator presents the content in the unique way that made me appreciate them in the first place. “Oh! Let’s see That Chapter Mike’s take on this one.” “Ah! It’s on High Time Crime. Joel will make this a fun murder to view.” I feel like I get a thorough understanding, a broad and nuanced view, perhaps one channel’s extra endearing empathy for victims, and another’s skill at including some timely dark humor. Now, often, when I have viewed an episode on a favored channel, I search the case immediately to see who else that I like has covered it. Peace!

[@Nostalgic_1]

The Sund case actually changed the way that I looked at how I personally might deal with a similar situation. 1.) NEVER let ANYONE into your motel room/rental, etc. for ANY reason. Call the front desk/owner if the person claims to be an employee of theirs. 2.) No matter what, even if they say that they are not going to harm you if you comply, choose to immediately fight for survival. Even if you are alone, but especially if there are more people who are with you. Do NOT wait until you are tied up or separated from each other, etc. It's better to get sh0t, st@bbed, etc. in a place where you can at least get help versus a location in the middle of nowhere and not be able to summon help of any kind. 3.) Tell the people who you are traveling with about "the plan" so you are all on the same page if something should happen. No, it's not being a "Debbie Downer." It's about being safe. If this can happen to people like the Sunds, it can happen to anyone.

[@KatieWierzbicki-ib2ib]

I remember seeing this horrific story on Forensic Files years ago...i pray for the victims and their families and i hope all 4 women are resting in heaven and are at peace 🕊️🙏❤️ thank you for covering this story!

[@alisonscott1469]

I remember the story of Steven Stayner and the film i know my first name is Steven. It’s a good movie for anyone who hasn’t seen it. I think Cary wanted to be famous because he was jealous that Steven was getting all the attention. Steven was the baby of the family and when he came back the parents let him continue to drink and smoke. Cary was older and wasn’t allowed to do either of those things. Even more tragically the real Steven Stayner died in a motorbike accident and the little boy he saved Timothy died young too. Thankyou for telling this story. Take care 😘🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@megandolimpio6579]

I worked where Joie worked at the Golden Gate Park in San Francisco . Her picture hung in a frame on the wall, I thought nothing of it. Then I randomly came upon this story and it haunted me ever since

[@Eden_Rivers]

Oh my goodness, as soon as you said it I knew ... I remember as a kid they made a movie about the brother called "I know my first name is Steven." Wowza. I was absolutely fascinated by that story, but had no idea about his brother!

[@benjamenspence7913]

I’ve read about this incident and it’s wild. Another fantastic video. Nicely done, Kyle.

[@catherinewilliams3850]

What an evil monster, some people are just born evil. His poor little brother after all he went through he still felt compassion for the younger boy and saved them both.

[@Matthew2414a]

Just a little while longer, and the wicked will be no more; You will look at where they were, And they will not be there. But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace. (Psalm 37:10, 11)

[@FearsomeMedic]

That was written over 2000 years ago. Still waiting on those promises.

[@Matthew2414a]

@@FearsomeMedic Isn't it great we are living in the stream of time where we will be the generations to first experience the fulfillment of these promises? Exciting times we are in now! "But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, haughty, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, disloyal, having no natural affection, not open to any agreement, slanderers, without self-control, fierce, without love of goodness, betrayers, headstrong, puffed up with pride, lovers of pleasures rather than lovers of God (2nd Timothy 3:1-4)

[@Matthew2414a]

@@FearsomeMedic “Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign when all these things are to come to a conclusion?” So Jesus began to tell them: “Look out that nobody misleads you. Many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and will mislead many. Moreover, when you hear of wars and reports of wars, do not be alarmed; these things must take place, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom; there will be earthquakes in one place after another; there will also be food shortages. These are a beginning of pangs of distress....also, in all the nations, the good news has to be preached first....And you will be hated by all people on account of my name. But the one who has endured to the end will be saved." (Mark 12:4-13)

[@FearsomeMedic]

Jesus Christ, I remember being this delusional. I’m glad your religion gives you hope and purpose. Just know that I’m certainly much happier without it.

[@nate_d376]

Yes please, tell Patricia Hicks story. She deserves to have her story told.

[@pamengland7863]

I remember this happening when I grew up in NoCal not far from Yosemite. It was & still is so scary. The Staynor family has had such horror in their lives & the victims & their families can never be truly healed. I hope you’ll cover those other people you mentioned. Really enjoy your stories. And it doesn’t stop me from wanting to hike short, long, through, you name it. I still drive every single day. That’s more dangerous than any other way of travel.🤷🏼‍♀️

[@appleg.310]

I remember this happening when I lived in Humboldt County. It was so tragic and just insane. So shocking. Will never forget it. They were from Humboldt County. Except for the best friend who went with them to Yosemite. She came from another country to see her best friend. So sad.

[@SkateStar017]

Yes it is one of the saddest cases I have ever heard. I grew up in Mariposa. I did not move to Mariposa until 2001 but my parents moved back and forth to Mariposa throughout the '80's, '90's, & 2000's. My family and I left Mariposa in 2013. Mariposa is near Yosemite btw. RIP to Carole, Silvina, and Juli as well as Joie.

[@sophritoh]

7:24 the fact that someone reporting a missing wallet was a key to this case is wild! Imagine how many people see wallets and pick them up without reporting them, and could’ve been key to a crime :(

[@JessMccusker-fh3ue]

I would never hike a park without my sidearm alot of strange weirdos out there lurking waiting to pounce on innocent people that are never seen again

[@epicMicrowavve]

Rest in Peace to those children and the young mom. They didn’t deserve this No victim deserves that label. My condolences

[@luciemarinov129]

Not going to National parks in the future, but would not be going any way. Weirdo s out at large everywhere ! Your narratives are very well researched and appreciated!

[@JudiKerestan]

YOU never answer a door at hotel..call the front desk! They do not send maintenance men at a hotel unless you request a repair or a new room, how very sad!!

[@katarabrown6769]

This was also in the 70's and people were a lot more trusting then. I'm also not sure if those safety measures were in place.

[@emilystaudte5314]

​@@katarabrown6769It was in 1999 though

[@garybaldwin5241]

Kyle, I believe you are a natural storyteller. Your presentations are never dull or difficult to watch, even when the story is so horrible. Thank you for showing the beautiful scenery of Yosemite. Keep up the great work young man.

[@gretchensaaduddin5123]

Yes, this changed my family's vacation plans for years. The story dragged on for years, and we did not feel safe camping and hiking there any longer. I remember these incidents very well.

[@itsg66]

Yes crazy story ! The guy who did it brother was a famous kidnapping case !!

[@marianparoo1544]

Although I have read he was a strange one from early on, I don’t think his parents neglect of him during his brother’s case helped.

[@BloodguiltyGaming]

​​@@marianparoo1544 they were worried about their missing son. You're really blaming them for what a monster he became? (Over the neglect he was shown when his brother was missing) That's wild my guy

[@angelwings1979]

@@BloodguiltyGamingI’m pretty sure he’s not blaming the Stayner parents. He’s just stating that the unusual circumstances he grew up in could definitely explain part of why he turned out the way he did.

[@BloodguiltyGaming]

@@angelwings1979 that's true...

[@Swt.Designs]

Just horrible, prayers for all families I hope they found peace… new subscriber, I think it is ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL you mentioned a victim organization. Love your style of telling this story, honestly the extremely respectful way you told this is highly impressive to me. Thank you on behalf of all victims of violent crimes. I am looking forward to binge watching your content.

[@Chudchanning]

I remember this was a huge deal, murders aren't common up that way after all. I've visited the little memorial at the Vista point where the daughter was dumped, that spot was like 8 minutes from my old place

[@RedArremer]

This reminds me so much of that Mystic River movie.

[@JH_-xl8fb]

Man nice job! I have heard this story several times snd still learned a lot of new info I never heard before. Most notably I never knew this was "I know my first name is Stephen" brother. That show terrified me as a child!

[@xtractfn1426]

Bro I binged all your videos in 3 weeks, to the point where none get recommended, only to rewatch lol, keep pumping out the content plzzzzzz

[@RH-tv9hk]

These cases are like creeping octopus arms of tragedy, even more than what you covered. Steven's torturer was released after a short sentence. In his 80s, gravely chronically ill, and in a wheelchair, he asked his caregiver to "buy" a boy for him. Luckily, she went to the police. The young boy who Steven rescued grew up to be a police officer who died in his 30s (iirc, aneurism or heart attack.) Steven's father never really accepted him back. As already stated in the comments, Steven married and had an infant before he was killed in a motorcycle accident.

[@RH-tv9hk]

.

[@Hanniballinda]

That's all horrific 😮😢

[@psyekl]

I was already aware of this story, but I appreciated the new presentation. Well done.

[@joshthemediocre7824]

I'll never understand how the police can hear that Cary Stayner works at the lodge the girl were last seen at...and they not zero in on him. Knowing his story, what happened to his brother and everything that came from that, if i were a cop i would have been all over him, you obviously wouldn't be looking for a normal person that lived a normal life, his life had been too crazy to ignore. He would have never got out of that first interview with me.

[@rumpeltyltskyn]

Why would you suspect someone because their sibling was a victim of a violent crime? You do realize one out of 3 women are victims of SA, should we assume their sons and brothers are murders and rapists too?

[@RedArremer]

When doing initial interviews of staff, detectives will look for a criminal background history, but short of that, it's just one of many interviews that get filed away. They aren't going to go "oh what if this employee had a sibling that went missing in their youth?". That's just not reasonable to expect the cops to make that connection.

[@twitchy_bird]

He had no criminal record and stayed very calm and personable during the interview. I normally agree that people (cops, detectives, etc.) need to do their jobs better, pay more attention, but in this case they really had no reason to suspect him.

[@chriswheeler6092]

​@@RedArremerNah ,they would have already had someone do a profile and they would have known that they were looking for a lone Male out in the woods. The job at the lodge would have been too much to ignore. They probably knew and needed more physical evidence to convict him

[@RedArremer]

@@chriswheeler6092 Nah, if you re-watch the video, the cops (including the feds) had pegged other suspects for the crime and washed their hands of the case. It was the 2nd murder case that broke open the new suspect lead.

[@shadowscribbler6100]

Californian here. I used to go to Yosemite every year... it's said as El por-TAL by the locals, not like the English word for door.

[@Ralph-c2q]

Great to see you Kyle. RIP to the victims, so sad and such a waste.

[@WorldwideDarts]

Oh boy, let's go hiking!

[@edwardbenton4428]

Well, plenty of serial killers out there with no connection s to hiking or national parks

[@RedQueensJubileeClub]

I’m not sure a national park is safer than any city. Aren’t most of the people who are attacked victims in circumstance? If the perpetrator has a penchant for blondes wearing glasses and that describes someone’s look where they are isn’t putting them at risk as much as his fetish. I use the gender male based on the statistic showing perpetrators are usually male and victims are usually female.

[@laurieb3703]

​@@RedQueensJubileeClubnobody cares about the gender shit. Just say what you want. We all know it's the truth

[@sherylkeib4993]

@@RedQueensJubileeClub There are many you tube videos about missing people who are never found in all the national parks. A lot of people.

[@RedQueensJubileeClub]

@@sherylkeib4993 yes, I know. There are lots of missing people with or without videos.

[@nopenallnull]

His brother has nothing to do with him being a psychotic monster.

[@anyathepanther7977]

Imagine all of this from Steves perspective: You go through Hell and after 7 years you think it is finaly over. You are back Home and the Healing can start. Yes, it is not the same as before. In fact your relationship with your Brother is a bit rocky, but that is to be expected, right? And than years later you learn that said Brother has become a Serial Killer, mostly out of jealousy of you!

[@RH-tv9hk]

Sadly, Steven died in a motorcycle accident in '89.

[@Goldun-nah]

The Stayner parents suffered tragedy after tragedy. I bet they lived with such guilt. Their youngest was abducted and raped for 7 years and then dying in a motorcycle accident… and their oldest became a serial killer??? That’s just tragic

[@fone9665]

Steven Stayner died on 16 September 1989, in a motorbike accident, at the age of 23

[@stevescott3735]

Oh damn, really? You woulda thought that prevented him from doing this

[@fone9665]

@@stevescott3735 Steven was his brother who was kidnapped.

[@Lostfalls]

@@stevescott3735 🤦‍♀️

[@ninjillify]

Yeah, the Stayner family story is wild. There is a pretty good chance that if Steven had never been abducted, Cary would never have become an abductor. However, I don't believe there is anything that will ever fix Cary Staynor. He openly admits he murdered these women and would not have stopped. There are no appeals for him. The state of California is still paying to keep this man alive. This is the exact situation the death penalty should be enforced.

[@mattholomule7810]

You never know what is in a persons head or their personal thoughts. Be aware. Trust few. Sad but its just the world as it is now.

[@clockworktri]

I don't get why you keep saying he was "fighting the urge to kill again." Just because he cried in court? He had been planning on killing his girlfriend and SAing her two little girls. Just like he had with the girls at Cedar Lodge. I see it much more like he was just figuring out the logistics on how to kill again without getting caught, wanting the most to target his GF and her kids. But before he could figure out a good plan he just got impatient and impulsive. Not because he had some true remorse or desire to stop.

[@abeeral-qattan5997]

You story telling is AMAZING, can’t miss any of your episodes

[@nikkirose8199]

I’m lucky to be alive i think. I traveled national parks for 9 years straight

[@edwardbenton4428]

Millions of people have gone to national parks and have happy stories and fond memories

[@twitchy_bird]

You're just as likely, more so actually, to be killed in a car than a national park. Millions of people go to national parks every year, and nothing bad happens. You're not lucky persey, these people were just unlucky.

[@thebeautifulhobo1]

Well, maybe we are just too ugly to bother with! Kidding! Yes, I have also.

[@BloodguiltyGaming]

I was actually there during this in June. They had alrdy found them in the car and I remember even though they announced they had the killer, lots of people working there thought the killer was still out there. Turns out they were right. It's just creepy looking back that he was still out there. Our group was big so we weren't scared but we were cautious. I wanted to add that I have been going to national parks(especially Yosemite) for 25 years now and nothing but great memories

[@Orangeshebert]

I was a young widow with kids. We camped a lot at state parks. As the kids grew up and left I was alone. I became a correctional nurse. Knowing the depravity of humans left me scared to camp alone for a few years. Now I camp alone. I trust my instincts. If something seems off or strange it is not worth waiting for a bad event. Be smart. Be aware. Have fun.

[@turtle4614]

I watch true crime shows non stop. Love the forensics aspect as well as the solving of cases. I'm now watching them in national Forrests which brought me here. At this point I do t think there's a place on the planet we didn't find a way to end some type of life in.

[@jlt131]

terrible things happening in such a beautiful place. so sad.