The Story of Nyx - Persona Explained

[@GamingUniversityUoG]

So glad to be able to check one of these out in full! It kinds of explains why I have been trying to figure out the non-standard arcana in P5R.

[@Generallybreak]

Thanks for watching, man! When I played through P4G and P5R I wasn't quite sure what to make of the new arcana, but I think this theory ties together how Persona seems to imagine the arcana work, and the more extended lore.

[@G4M4YUN13L]

This is an amazing explanation of Nyx but also the story of Persona 3. Thank you.

[@garc115]

Persona is always fascinating. Quoting Joseph Campbell: A thunderbolt hitting a tower, the tower of destruction, which is the traditional sign for purgatory, you know, the tower of evil being smashed by the thunderbolt of God's destruction of all of your tight ego system relationships In the case of person 3, the god is completed with the major arcana, finally saying goodbye to Tartarus. Makoto Yuki is the only one who dies, leaving behind his friends, but dying in this case, means saying goodbye to his ego (his personality), in this case he says goodbye to his friends. Gods, this game is so beautiful 🥲Great video

[@Generallybreak]

I'm glad you liked it! And you've reminded me I really need to read more Campbell. His tarot book is so hard to get a copy of. :(

[@Heroics64]

Bro this is a great video, good job. I live for finding channels like this that are brilliant and fly under the radar. You know if I ever stop being lazy and upload my videos Ive been making I'll link them to you. You said something interesting about death not being able to contend with the fool I thought that was interesting. Something I wanted to ask you about is I have literally probably like 20 examples of this clown/death overlap from various works of fiction and never knew exactly what to make of it. I suppose I still don't entirely know. But there's countless illustrations of the grim reaper being compared to or illustrated as a clown. I'm really big into Saturn research which in my estimation is one way death is represented. The thing is in these examples it's not depicted as a rivalry. The way they are used implies they are the same thing or something. I guess my question is what do you make of that? Idk if that makes any sense. Don't feel obligated to reply. At the very least I wanted to just say good video

[@Generallybreak]

Oh, that's an interesting idea! I can think of a few reasons. One I kind of allude to in the video; the Jester archetype as a figure with a strange sort of power, and maybe more broadly the trickster archetype as a whole. Tricksters sort of exist outside of the status quo, and have the power to upend it. This can be a very good thing (Persona 5) or a very destructive thing (Persona 2). The "evil clown" seems like a very good image of the negative trickster. Another is the way that traits can meld together in a shadow figure; someone who is overly serious will begin to manifest clownish traits in their shadow, which will meld with whatever other dark traits might be there. I think Batman/the Joker is probably the best example of this. I think there might also be an element of an evil clown as being a good depiction of lost innocence; something that was delightful as a child now infused with the cruelty we come to see as we grow up. Stephen King's It stands out to me as the clearest example here. You're definitely asking some interesting questions, if you do start uploading, please do let me know!

[@003FC]

Such a good video :) Keep the good work! Though, I have to point something out: the Fool is part of the Avatar and Nyx's psyche, despite not having a Full Moon Shadow. Considering how the Fool is supposed to represent the beginning of life and its infinite possibilities, while Death represents, well, death, then Nyx in its entirety encompasses the entire cycle of mundane/gross life: you are born, you grow, you live, and you die. It's quite literally a symbol for the unconscious, primitive life that, pitifully, most people are unable to look beyond. Just like Nyx is fragmented and alienated from itself, humanity too is divided and broken. The two of them yearn to converge into one once more, to feel whole. The Fall is just one of two ways to solve this inner tension, sacrificing individuality and consciousness so everything can return to... well, since unconsciousness is ultimately defined by the existence of consciousness, I suppose I really can't say Nyx's original state is unconscious at all, can I? However, that's only one way, and you just pointed out the second one in the end of the video :) All of that leads me to believe that, in ultimate instance, Nyx is quite literally the Self of humanity, or, well, I supposed it'd better to say it's the unconscious Self of humanity. It's the "god" that experiences the world through life and humanity, waiting to be realized. "As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being."

[@Generallybreak]

That's a meaty reply; thanks for giving me more to think about! I think I agree with you on the broad strokes here; Nyx certainly on one level represents the unconscious, though I'd say she's presented as more of a Shadow figure than a Self figure, there's more emphasis on the unknowability and terror of it, but less on the aspirational aspects or individuation. I'd say Philemon is a more definite avatar of the Self. (I think there's a few lines in Persona 2 to that effect? I can't remember them off hand.) I still disagree on some some specifics; I think the story is fairly clear they imagine the Fool as being something outside of Nyx, and I think the duality and tension that points to is also an important part of what the writers wanted to community. I would point out that the Fool is certainly part of Nyx Avatar regardless of which of us is right; Pharos's contact with Makoto means he would carry the full set of human archetypes. If the Fall were to happen, that could mean some interesting times for Nyx.

[@003FC]

@@Generallybreak Yeah, I don't disagree with the fact that Nyx is too terrifying and alien to be the Self per se. That's why I commented she's the *unconscious* Self, more akin to the Abraxas described in Seven Sermons, or Yahweh in Answer to Job. I also think is a funny coincidence how Phanes, the orphic god born out of the cosmic egg and husband to Nyx, was the "counterpart" to Abraxas. And speaking about creativity deities... Yes, I don't think there's going to be any cleared Self figure (beyond the Universe/World, I think) than Philemon; hardly a contest when the game itself called it the archetypal creativity of the unconcious. Still, I think Jose may be hinting something else, considering his cosmic and flower motifs, and those vague answers.

[@zacharybrogden3038]

The feels like a less depressing Evangelion.

[@Generallybreak]

I dunno, Evangelion has that nice encouraging support group scene at the end. But now that I think about it, you're pretty right. I hadn't even thought about the resemblances like humanity being descended from an ancient god like alien, and a cult seeking to end humanity. I might have to touch back on the Evangelion lore...

[@maltesegeek1]

@@Generallybreak Forgive me for making this suggestion. But Kill la Kill also references this too.

[@Generallybreak]

@@maltesegeek1 I can't believe you've done this.

[@tomo8940]

In the world of Megami Tensei. This is normal just that in Persona they have an actual chance to save the world.

[@Generallybreak]

Ha, pretty much. The mainline is always "well, the world is doomed, now what?" Though I would argue a lot of the neutral endings could be framed as "saving the world".

[@tomo8940]

@Generallybreak Right but at the point the original world ended a long time ago.