The Story of Patch 6.2: "Fury of Hellfire" (Part 2 of 2) [Lore]

[@hirumaredx]

Khadgar is obviously Mystique

[@richardberglund2]

True

[@Savagerogue]

Thanks again for coming along with us Nobbel! From ashes always has a space for you!

[@princeveggie]

Tom Davis Really nice of you guys. Really the most PvE Guilds on my RP Server would never do such a thing just for "some lore nerd" :D

[@Livingvapour]

I believe the picture where Kil'rogg dies with alliance and horde banners around him, Is what would of come to pass if he followed Grom to the end. He changed his fate by joining Team Gul'dan, so he faced the unknown hoping for a brighter future only to die less honourably.

[@Crisis_Brew]

Livingvapour True, maybe if he didnt go #guldan he would've caused some shit at the end cinematic and thats when he would get killed.

[@stephenpettersson3831]

Livingvapour Hmm, i dont think so. When he dies, he tells the players: "This is the death i foresaw"(something like that at least) Meaning that he knew how he would die... Though i like your logic more :P

[@joshualogan84]

It was cool that Kilrog's vision for us fighting the legion was true :-P

[@felfireman2495]

yep

[@felfireman2495]

:D

[@Urielthalas]

Talk about a guild recruitment pitch, damn. From Ashes just reached 93 thousand potential recruits with that one plug. Great work!

[@Mindlessfun100]

“We just had an expansion with a lot of legion influences, so to fight them again just seems repetitive and unlucky.” Oh hindsight

[@thenerdbeast7375]

That was why I skipped Legion despite how great an expac it was, I was so burned out fighting demons in Tanaan I just noped out for 3 years.

[@Nobbel87]

Those asking: Archimonde mythic takes place within the Twisting Nether, but the cinematic cuts back to Draenor. Considering his light dies out on Draenor, I'd say that he died there so his soul returned to the Twisting Nether.

[@chrisgray6589]

The ending to warlords was really frustrating for you wasn't it nobbel ? We can pretty much hear it in your voice! But yea... It's pretty understandable... You'd expect they'd at least have more character development before pulling this stunt. all I've learned from the wow lore, I learned from you nobbel (I'm a fan of the lore mostly, starting from the older pc Warcraft ) . Any thoughts of whether or not they'll release a book/ short story to explain this situation with more development? Or do you think they'll leave as is ?

[@josephjenkinsjr.2507]

Nobbel87 I'm sry but capturing, enslaving, and even killing some of the Dranei does "not" equate to "genocide;" that's a bit extreme accusation. And we don't have any evidence that Grommash was even planning genocide on the Dranei. He viewed the Dranei as a threat, no thanks in any small part to Garrosh, he wanted to conquer Draenor because Garrosh convinced him that it was his destiny. Grom was doing what he felt was necessary to achieve his goals, a sort of "ends justifying the means" belief. It doesn't justify what he's done, but if we have to hold him accountable for his war on Draenor, then we need to hold Varian, Thrall, Sylvannas, Tyrande, and all of the other leaders of the Horde and Alliance accountable for the "crimes" that happened under their leadership. The point is that Grom shouldn't be forgiven very easily and he should be held accountable to some extent, but to go after him in the way you have indicated would make the Dranei no better than the Orcs and, as Muffinus stated, I think that the Dranei are above that.

[@giefvideo]

Nobbel87 I think there's a way to explain the questions about the cursed blood of Mannoroth, though. It may not have been just killing him in WC3 that ended the curse, but it might be the fact that it was an orc that turned the curse on itself. He says that "the demon's fire has burned out in my veins" so he basically just spent the power of the curse on that killing blow. Just saying that there might be more to ending the curse than just killing the demon. ...Dunno about the character development in the ending here. I'd agree that if the orcs and draenei could end up living in peace once more, that'd be great. And I think this could qualify as a lesson well learned. Just... an unnecessary story in the universe, as it turns out.

[@Nobbel87]

Joseph Jenkins Jr. Have you seen Velen's vision at Karabor? Was it not for us, Ner'zhul and the Dark Star would have wiped them out so that's the genocide part. The rest, sure we all have our crimes which made the whole War Crimes thing kinda silly. Doesn't mean you should let any character just switch sides and say "we're cool" without giving it any story progression (missing chapters)

[@josephjenkinsjr.2507]

Nobbel87 If that's the case then I reiterate my earlier statement about holding the Alliance and Horde leaders accountable, if we have to hold Grom accountable for Ner'zhul's actions then Varian should be held accountable for what Onyxia did and Thrall should be held accountable for what Garrosh did as warchief for example. I'm not saying that Blizz didn't do a sloppy job at telling the story for this expansion, nor am I saying that Grom shouldn't be held accountable for some of his actions... I'm just saying that it seems that the rage that you're, seemingly, directing towards Grom is actually you raging towards Blizz for the loosely cobbled together story that they have thrown at us this expansion. I can understand your frustration, but I don't agree with throwing Grom to the wolves is a viable solution to this problem. No he shouldn't be allowed to "switch sides" and be cool and all, but going after him, for the sake of a conclusion, isn't the answer either. I think that Blizz should have filled out some fundamentals in between to help lead to a viable conclusion that would actually be satisfactory and make sense.

[@OneClickStories]

Thank you for the awesome video nobbel. Now that I'm not playing the main game WoW, I am still very attached to the franchise and the lore of it. And your videos are like the perfect solution for my little addiction. Once again, thanks!

[@retrohanska4441]

One of the best things of BfA is that they actually addressed your rant in the end of the video. They probably had something like that in mind but couldn't just spill the beans right then and there. It's a shame that current gameplay ruins that kind of storytelling

[@MalonzeProductionsGaming]

GET IN MAH BELLEH!!!! I lost my shit at that xDDD

[@ZeRandomZ]

ikr :D

[@Bain6969]

malonze10 i was drinking at that time.....little came out of my nose

[@nezbyte]

malonze10 I liked him popping up during Yrel's little monologue aswell. WP Nobbel

[@ourodyssey374]

pretty weird that you lost your shit over it

[@Raiden4565]

malonze10 fatbastard from austin power 2 :D

[@louelson]

Dude, your videos are great. Well written, well presented!! Just keep up the amazing job and thank you for gathering the lore and make those excellent videos!

[@LionofMandalore]

The way this expansion ended almost feels like a bad dream...with that said, and the way Grom and Yrel are pretty much acting out of character at the end (not trying to chop each others heads off), what if we thought we were entering Draenor but we actually were in the Emerald Dream this whole time? I'd find that more dangerous than any Orc invasion because it means that were fighting against an endless army of dream constructs. Nvm....that would make me even angrier than the current ending... Good job Nobbel! This was a great way for us lore lovers to see the story without having to do content we may not be that good at doing.

[@Darkness1984]

Your videos are great! Im not playing wow anymore but your videos help me keeping up with the lore. Thanks for that! ^^

[@Gulliedoutbigup]

I was about 12-13 when TBC was out and every single time I heard that loud groan from the Fel Reaver my heart sank, I didn't worry about the mob I was attacking or the quest I was on. Instinct told me to run forward, and only forward and that's what I did the whole way through TBC

[@jshadowhunter]

Seriously Nobbel, in the last few minutes you sounded like Wrathion raging at the end of SoO, for Varian not wiping out the Horde.

[@splinte111]

Grommash acting like he just saved his planet! :P

[@ScarieWOW]

Always a great job. Thanks for doing the work you do!

[@Tony-gc2ic]

Love how the bosses in these games show no pain whatsoever after being under constant fire from D.P.S dealers for 10 minutes straight.

[@JuanCruz-nn6ke]

Always had a feeling that WoD was more of a prequel to a larger Expansion. With the reveal of WoW: Legion I feel satisfyingly clever. I am uncontrollably excited for the new class. Hoping they give us a release date soon.

[@christopherfortineux5421]

Sir I love your videos please keep making them!!! You do a fantastic job!

[@AuraXars]

In mythic you kill archimonde in the twisting nether, but you still get the same cinematic

[@mattd246261]

Great seeing you today @ Square Table!

[@The_Mendoza]

Never expect Blizzard to make coherent stories or keep their lore straight and you'll never be disappointed. That said, my head would hurt less if instead of words there were only Sim sounds, at least that would make more sense.

[@KomLit]

I think it would be pretty cool if next expansion started out by legion invading and destroying storm wind and Orgrimmar. We beating them back into nether only to find out Queen Azshara has rised taking over so many cities and such. She then tries to awaken the old god who has whispered in the deaths of the ocean. Something of the short (can't wait until 6th ^_^)

[@KomLit]

KomLit-Minecraft Builder & Mustache Gamer Also the legion could be the 1st part of the exp and queen can be 2nd would be amazing.

[@TheSquareheadgamer]

I cant see that happing sololy since that could be made inro 2 expasions

[@alkariane]

First of all, thank you for this cool video ! Now, I concur with you on the elephant in the room in the last cinematic (namely Grommash). They did what they shouldn't have, a redemption story because "Grom is cool, Grom is a hero, Grom saved all the orcs". Well Grom might have saved us all, but that's not Grom, that's Grommash ! Anyway, Gul'dan made a pact with Archimonde, and seeing what he did, the glowing eyes fading out, and all this, I think Archimonde transfered his mind into the body of Gul'dan, to safeguard his "soul". When we'll see Gul'dan again, he will probably be the next avatar of Archimonde. On another side, the biggest plothole I found in this expansion is the rise in power of Gul'dan. At the start, he was almost weak, captured easily with his lieutenants by Grommash. Then we see him rising quickly to levels of power beyond what he could do in our timeline. If he was this powerful, why the mascarade with BlackHand as his puppet in our world. Why was the shadow council hidden ? We see him defeating easily Grommash at the end of the Garona questline. What happened, where did he get all this power during the expansion ? I'd gladly hear your thoughts on this.

[@TzarAugustus]

8:44 nice prediction

[@ravenmourne]

"I'm not saying it's impossible, but to me it seems unlikely." Little did Nobbel know one of his favorite expansions was yet to come.

[@tinyclangers]

I know this is almost in no relation to the video but... why did they change Archimonde's voice actor from Warcraft 3? That voice actors variant way more menacing.

[@ArakkoaChronicles]

BigMcK It's been a while. He might have moved on. Also, I know some VAs from WC3 died in the meantime, so you never know.

[@Rysosis]

Verroak Krasha The voice actor of Archimonde from Warcraft 3 voiced a different character in WoD (cannot remember which one), so I find that unlikely.

[@PDRNorrington]

Rysosis David Lodge was Archimonde old VO.

[@danhk96]

BigMcK I was disappointed by this as well.

[@Ugawugaman]

BigMcK When you hit him and he yells, that sounds like his Hyjal voice.

[@zuraorokamono204]

Gul'dan is going to be the new Lich King 100%.

[@Starfals]

He didnt think Legion will happen but it did :P

[@nated5606]

We've known Khad'gar could turn into a raven before WoD fully launched. In a brief moment during those pre-exp quests, he tells us that our scout was killed by the Iron Horde and (if you watch carefully) he then flies of as a raven. He also does it shortly after landing our ships following the intro quest area of WoD.

[@SagittariusSisyphus]

Since all the "Void Magic" stuff I guess it would be kinda of awesome to explore it and how it could be connected to both the Naaru and the Paladin class. What if happens something really thrumatic, something so extreme with the use of light powers that they happen to decay or be consumed (as the Naaru's life cicle) that the user is now wielding powers from the void itself? It could be great Expansion or sidequest material: WoW "Duality of Powers"

[@Dotoku14]

Stream was great! Time for some lore

[@rabidmeese]

Guldan was more then likely able to summon Archimonde due to the residual power left over in the Dark Portal. The Portal was still vaguely active in some capacity - and that, with Guldans natural power was more then likely a powerful enough artifact to pull him through. That being said, the ending was still a massive disappointment. If they'd have thrown an extra patch in there for context it would have fit much better, but it felt super rushed.

[@tykoon.]

Rabid Meese exactly what i was thinking, maybe the connection to other worlds is greater where the portal stood

[@WingTzu343]

DarkfallenProduction That's actually true. Forgot where I read it, but some worlds are easier for the burning legion to tap into. Azeroth is one of the most difficult which is why it's been a target for the Burning Legion for a long time.

[@soggybiscuit4208]

What happens after the ending cinematic: *Yrel toggles on PvP* Durotan: Seriously? Stop showing off. Yrel: In the light we kick ass. Grommosh: Don't make me commit Genocide. Yrel: Bring it. *Yrel bubbles* Durotan: Seriously right now? Like come on. *Yrel starts harthing* Yrel: Later n00bs. Grommosh: I hate Paladins!

[@bloodravenzx4438]

With the room that looks cool it reminds me of burning crusade where they would have fel reavers penned up. Not much is known of their construction maybe the legion uses souls to animate the fel reavers?

[@LizardBrain723]

Honestly looking at the story for WoD, i feel like it was made with a few goals in mind: show off a shiny draenor in its prime, have some cool boss fights and raids, and give themselves an excuse to bring some old characters (like Gul'Dan and Grommash) back into the story, while adding a few new ones (Yrel), it feels more like weak story setup for something else.

[@MrJustinArt]

The whole thing with the Burning Legion being the same Legion no matter what reality they're in is stupid. What, does/did all the alternate reality Kil'jaedens and Archimondes become one and the same as our reality Archimonde and Kil'jaeden when they accepted Sargeras's offer? That doesn't make any sense! I'm willing to overlook a lot of questionable choices they make for WoW (I love the game they've created; sue me), but Blizzard jumping the shark like this with the lore is honestly pissing me off. The tweet is bullcrap and I hope Metzen throws a book at the guy who tweeted it.

[@RazanaArcclaw]

MrJustinArt thing is in the titants can travel to alterante realites cause they are over them so that means if sargeras wanted he would d oit for his army, also in burning crusade there is a eredar lord who says he is above time and space so it is probebly the startof this nether being above all

[@MrJustinArt]

greenyoshi100 That's true, pocket dimensions and alternate realities are a thing in WoW, and they have been referenced several times (not just in WoD). But it has also been stated that there's "only one true timeline", referring to ours. The Archimonde in Hellfire Citadel being the same Archimonde that was ultimately destroyed at Hyjal makes no sense.

[@RazanaArcclaw]

he came chasing after us wanting revenge i guess

[@andrewcassell8757]

MrJustinArt High ranking officers of the Burning Legion (like Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden) can only truly be killed in the Twisting Nether, that's why Archimonde is still alive after Mount Hyjal. The real question is: "What happens when you slay Archimonde in HFC Mythic (he trasnports you to the Twisting Nether during stage 3)? Are there now technically two new timelines for when you kill Archimonde on varying difficulties? But that wouldn't be true because the Burning Legion transcends all realities and time-ways." Confusing stuff lol.

[@wymanmanderly551]

Andrew Cassell IMO that's stupid as well, the original idea was that Nath'Rezim (Dreadlords) can only be killed in the Twisting Nether, adding all other demons to that is just stupid. Not to mention how many complications that whole "only one Archimonde" thing brings. Does that mean there is only one Azeroth too? If not then only one Azeroth has been attacking by Archimonde (as one guy can't attack all those different realities at the same time), and that just makes no sense.

[@JohnnyFerno]

I personally felt like the initial story of Wod was brilliant! All the characters we met and all the events, were really good, but then they kinda rushed this last bit in an attempt to make one hellf of an segway into Legion. I really hope the endgame in that expansion is more....right than this.

[@loganforsythe9297]

Khadgar could also want the skull so no one could get its power or so the whole illidan incident could not happen again

[@jaharned1]

I love how when Archimonde steps into Draenor he's like "Ima give you all the ass-whoopin' of yo life 0,...,0"

[@fatcatco]

Nobbel87 Would it be possible for you to make a video about which faction on Azeroth, really is the strongest? Where you compare both the Alliance and the Horde's resources, weapons, armor, and over all military strength, and make a theorethical analysis of which side is currently strongest (or if they are evenly matched).

[@omarelatyqy1740]

"Killrog sucks you into his eye with an ability called Vision of Death" "Fell energy pours from Killrog's eye socket, transporting enemies who bask in it's light to the moment of their doom" So basically, Killrog got a sharingan and is using the kamui mixed with some genjustu..... Someone got some demon blood on him ?

[@MrGreatevil]

About Medan. I remember playing WOW something around cataclysm(i would say beta) and there was hudge update to warcraft history where Blizz officially have said that Taurens are comming from ancient bull etc.There among those updates was a note that Medan and his story is not canon. Kadghar is clearly guardian, but his powers has to came from Medivh himself.

[@QuestionableObject]

Muffinus has confirmed that Blizzard knows less about their own lore than the players do it seems.

[@ThisMoustache]

I hope they just say the whole of wod is filler, not Canon, and that garrosh was executed after his trial... what would you think about this?

[@mikeetyson9000]

TGDoWnThis but, khadgars and the arrakoa story was pretty awsome. espicially the arrakoa.

[@Chickensaretasty157]

TGDoWnThis Why the everloving fuck would Blizzard do that... personally, I think the story of WoD is pretty okay but the expansion itself was executed poorly, even if it is just a "filler" to set up Gul'dan for a future event.

[@ligidk]

TGDoWnThis That is the most ridiculous idea I've heard about WoW expansions.. Why the fuck would they release an expansion and then call it filler?

[@reagenlionel]

TGDoWnThis That is pure stupidity to be honest.

[@LionofMandalore]

ligidk Given all the retconning and bad decisions made in WoD's short lifespan, its not impossible to think Blizz would totally downplay this expansion in the grand scheme of things. In the end so much content was cut out that its obvious that the dev's themselves gave up on WoD.

[@Korijenkins1414]

"We just finished an expansion fighting a bunch of demons, it would be weird to fight them again immediately." Next expansion was literally titled LEGION lol. Blizz seems to have a bad habit of ending expansions with the next expansions villains. MoP ended with orcs, we got WoD. WoD ended with demons, we got Legion. Legion ends with... If it ends with old gods and we get an old god expansion my faith is lost.

[@WormyMaster]

And at last Nobbel found the ironic part of his soul :D

[@RvnWolf]

Eh, I would have to say Archimonde is most likely dead, if Archi Mythic is anything to go by, after watching Paragon and Method down him. He fights directly in the twisted nether in the final phase of the fight with the players, and if I remember correctly Blizz developers were tinkering with the idea of Archimonde finally dying for good in WoD, which makes sense because of the mythic fight, and how the immediate area around tanaan was pretty close to twisted nether I am sure. Which would help explain why Archimonde could be summoned through the portal. just my speculation on it.

[@GmasterFunk]

having the skull gives them immense power. Illidan used it to become a full demon, khadgar used it to close the portal and nerzuhl used it to amplify his power/open multiple portals across draenor. Khadgar wants it because not only is it bad for enemies to have, but it will make him stronger

[@tallgnome5601]

In the Gorefiend....we are one...

[@plague6174]

13:55 "But we WILL, grind pathfinder..."

[@sigma0443]

Maybe i m wrong in this opinion I have to say, since I havent done the upper tier bosses like Zakkun or Mannoroth or Archimonde. But the only way to bring up an excuse for Grommash for all the attrocities he done is to bring up a short story featuring him meeting up with some farseer shaman which was also held prisoner in HFC, and he suddenly shows the rest of the future that garrosh didnt bother to show. And you already showed us an area where some prisoners were kept under some eye there... maybe when grommash was freed and he asked for some time (to carve a trophy i know) but maybe he went to free those prisoners, which included that farseer. I know its a stupid idea, but imo thats the only recovery that the officials can make regarding Grommash's sudden allegiance . Other than this, awesome video Nobbel ;) u rock and I really laughed out like hell from 23:09 - 23:15 xD LokTar Ogar.

[@MasterOfDemons12]

Nobbel, about Kilrogg Deadeye. I believe he switched sides because his fate in the Iron Horde, was the one he had a vision about. crushed beneath the alliance and horde. As you mentioned, it's not impossible to change the timeline, and I think he tried to avoid his fate for as long as possible, even though it goes against canon Kilrogg. But if there is one thing i've learned about the vision of death, it is that you can't escape it. Warlords of Dreanor was one big mess, and there were far too many things that couldn't be explained properly, sadly. I hope Legion will bring more than this expansion. While it was fun to play, it just didn't have that... warcraft feeling to it.

[@Burred11]

12:38 That sound like something the protoss would do.

[@fatcatco]

Ven Flemmingson Well, the original home planet of the Draenei is called Argus, and the original home planet of the Protoss is called Aiur, it could be that they live in the same solarsystem, or that they somehow were able to meet and trade technology with eachother, and that's why they, and concidering that the race's look similar, it's possible that they are somewhat related to eachother, or even sub-species, but just evolved differently, and somehow, their ritual to create Immortals, Stalkers and Dragoons (I'm just using the Protoss names as a reference).

[@BarlytheDwarf]

Yuuki Hikari There is no magic in Starcraft. Only Psion energy and it's variants, and as such it has a "scientific" explanation. So no, saying that Aiur is even in the same universe as Argus doesn't fly from any lore perspective. The supposition just doesn't work. Sorry. And let's be honest here, would the Legion really stand a chance against the almighty Protoss?

[@fatcatco]

SliQster Ever heared of fan fiction? Don't take every comment too seriously.

[@BarlytheDwarf]

Yuuki Hikari I confess that I love fanfiction. Though I've seldom read anything that has anything to do with Warcraft. I recall one very good one though.

[@Sdogofdoom]

SliQster theres no reason they couldnt coexist :P magic is just the science of the future! maybe when jaina throws a fireball, shes actually pulling a super kerrigan!

[@jig-ga]

"gul'dan you made a pact.." "No!!" that was a pretty cool moment

[@Wanderlust1984]

Presumably, Grommash acquired Gorehowl when Gul'dan presented it to him as evidence of the demise of Garrosh Hellscream.

[@bartoszn1609]

I just love it how they added the 3 other bosses from Hyjal as mobs infront of Archimonde. A little easter-egg lets call it?

[@felixbogar4022]

If you ever play Warcraft 2 than you shall know why he needed the skull of Gul'dan (Closing a portal)

[@JohnPC00]

I found it interesting that Atiesh was glowing when Khadgar transformed, hinting that it is indeed the staff that grants him this ability. He could either be the Guardian, or Medivh in disguise. The next expansion is apparently called 'The Dark Prophet', and Medivh has gone by 'Prophet' in the past. To what end, I'm not sure, unless it's to bring a surplus of Orc and Draenei troops back to Azeroth to combat the Naga and Trolls.

[@Haggysack2k8]

20:00 Not only say hello to uncle Archimonde, Cousin Azgalor is also back in town!

[@abrickwalled]

I never got to enjoy the Mannoroth fight because every time i was thrown off the platform

[@kristijan8518]

I think I've watched all of your lore videos, but I don't remember any that explains the origin of the races. You've mentioned about some races (dwarves, gnomes) but there are still many other races (including neutrals) that I'm curious to know more about. Do you have any information about this topic? If you do, I'd love to see a video about it.

[@TheGrimest]

no black prince, grom saved for the sake of it, they brough thrall to draenor just for show, he didnt had an "ark" with his father, disapointment disapointment disapointment disapointment disapointment un-freaking-belivable

[@beany0077]

"Hire a writer." That one cracked me up.

[@DooblesGoDoobles]

i also love how when Y'rel talked about Ma'raad you put in the picture of gorefiend laughing xd

[@tristanseaver9054]

8:50 I'd have to disagree with you on this one Nobble. The vision that Garrosh forced on us at the end of the Heroic encounter was his ideal view, never a possible future. It was his twisted vision of what could be. With Kilrog, his visions seem to have some grounding in reality. Keep in mind, he says he recognizes us specifically when we come to fight him, (although I suppose with 20 commanders of a given faction it might be difficult to miss them.) The problem with this theory is pretty glaring though; as an Alliance character, Khadgar's last stand takes place in the royal palace in Lorderon, but as a Horde character, his last stand takes place in Sylvannis' chamber in the Undercity. Both can't be correct.

[@firstbluethenred]

Maraad is the main reason Yrel chooses to agree to the peace with his "in the light, we are all one": that statment is not just about the dranei, but all living things. It's a perfectly good ending to the expansion imo

[@babyherc1000old]

Just saw this..awesome Lore videos. I think you are wrong about the next expansion being Legion though :)

[@DaysofSkate]

I think it makes perfect sense that Archimondes soul is anchored to the Nether. Remember, Sargeras is a titan. If the other titans could create things like dragon aspects, imagine what Sargeras can create out of his Left and Right hand men

[@tanks608]

Boar fore dragon, before you said the next thing I was like man I was not expecting him here.

[@lockepersonal]

About the Killrog fight. I noticed that the vision takes place somewhere in the Alliance territory. I wouldn't mind seeing the Fel Alliance from the reality parallel to Draenor. Fel Arthas alone would make for a great story.

[@richardm.garciajr.9930]

I like the storyline but the only thing I'm having trouble with, is the timeline. Mainly the fact that Gul'dan is supposed to be dead

[@JStormrage]

Another amazing video Nobbell :] I am a lorewalker too, friend and as I've noticed there were a few things that puzzled you, such as thinking Khadgar might be a new Guardian of Azeroth. Allow me the contribute with my thoughts. From what I gathered that simply can not be. The new Guardian was created with the powers of the New Council of Tirisfal, and a guardian has more than just mage powers. The real guardian, Medan is traveling through the Twisting Nether countering unknown threats to Azeroth, probably slowing down the Legion's arrival or aiding the Naaru. Khadgar was an apperentice of Medivh (Medivh was himself, a real teacher and friend during day, while being possesed by the corrupted Titan Sargeras during night) Khadgar has studied and learned under Medivh, reason why he knows his masters signature spells. He is simply, one very power and very wise mage. We can easily assume Medan has left Atiesh to Khadgar, and might have helped him reverse the aging spell that made him frail and old. If you remember, when we met him in Shatrath, even Al'ar, a Naruu could not do undo that magic. Hope this helps. P.S. Keep doing awesome videos ;) I love watching and sharing them. Respectfully, Stormrage the Druid from Agamaggan EU.

[@DrekoWoW]

I have this feeling that Gul'dan in this story got a lot more power because it seems he was the only one who was in communication with the legion, and I think that Draenor is also a bit less protected than Azeroth from Demonic Invasion. I think that somewhere in Wrath they talk about how the Titans used the Well of Eternity to make it harder for the demons to find Azeroth, but Draenor didn't get that, so it's probably easier to summon powerful demons like Archemond to Draenor rather than Azeroth

[@Kranitoko]

Oh how wrong you were about Legion being the next expansion...

[@dogcowful]

I WAS NOT PREPARED FOR THAT FEL REAVER JUMP SCARE!!!

[@nishoku1722]

you know, I really want at least one expansion where we failed that way entering a new expansion for revenge would be so epic

[@sandman8115]

Thanks for great job Nobbel.

[@blackmark2899]

The biggest thing I can figure as to why the Orcs and Dreanei didn't immediately go at each other again is because they knew they really would wipe each other out. Nobbel you assume that the Dreanei are stronger but remember that the only reason that the Dreanei survived as well as they did was because the Horde and Alliance showed up and forced the Iron Horde to fight on 2 fronts against 2 well equipped and VERY well experienced armies. Before they were being herded and slaughtered. They were on the verge of defeat.

[@TheRealHanzan]

The vision of demons in stormwind with kadghar is indeed a hint for the next xpac. It is the burning legion :P

[@thrakerzad5874]

is demon blood actually delicious? like lore wise

[@princeveggie]

Thrakerzad I would say the power you feel filling your body does distract from the taste.

[@Gabrielle09876]

Thrakerzad It looks a lot like Mountain Dew, maybe it tastes the same ;)

[@jonathandahlberg437]

Gabrielle09876 SMOKEY MOUNTAIN DEW - FOR EVERYBODY!

[@Gabrielle09876]

Jonathan Dahlberg Yaaay! Just don't drink more than 9 cans if you know what I mean ^^

[@shadownoobnoobslayer5424]

Thrakerzad idk looks like pee prob taste like pee...

[@Jekktz]

''Has been given a special job, guarding Bolvar Fordragon.. eh... I mean Grommash!'' You got me, Nobbel! xD

[@zkwinkle24]

20:50 Grommash took Gorehowl back in that cinematic you showed us in the other video in which Gul'Dan shames him and Kil'rogg drinks from the blood

[@naomuitonoob]

Blizzard is just butchering the lore here. They gave us this sad excuse for an ending and cut out a lot of content just to have yearly expansions. WoW is turning into another CoD.

[@LionofMandalore]

Não Muito Noob Yeah I'm scared that you're exactly right. Yearly expansions means that well have enemies that die so quickly no one cares to get to know them...and from there it just gets kinda boring. Its a perpetual grindy boss farm. I'd rather have a long break between awesome expansions than to have whatever.....THIS......was supposed to be.

[@lfpredador]

Vocês curtem WoW? CARALHO

[@TheFatalGuide]

Não Muito Noob Well the community is part to blame. They got all pissy about expac's taking more than a year to produce, and the end result is what you get.

[@FrederikNielsenFMN]

StormTail Entertainment Though I have a feeling that they just wanted to finish WoD ASAP so they could start Legion. I feel that Legion is going to be a reeeaaally long expansion, like TBC and wrath. They probably just needed an expansion that gave a reason for the legion to invade azeroth

[@blackayana66]

Não Muito Noob Also, take into account, this is a different world, the lore of ours is still true, but this world is entirely it's own, basically when you get down to it, there is no cannon/written lore for this Draenor, Gul'dan arriving in our world is proof of just that, our lore is still real. They can't butcher lore if that world doesn't have any is what i'm trying to say.

[@progste]

watching it now it's kinda funny what you say at 8:55 =)

[@wittyreviewer]

With Kil'rogg, I think I have a theory. The entire point of the Bleeding Hollow clan is that they fight without fear because they've already seen how they die. If he saw that he would die fighting us as a fel orc, then maybe he just saw it as fulfilling the prophecy. Wouldn't trying to stop it go against his traditions?

[@StormsparkPegasus]

One thing to keep in mind: Garrosh didn't just whisper in Grom's ear and give him the idea of invading our reality. He outright LIED to Grom, by showing him only select portions of the Vision of Time, conveniently leaving out the redemption of the orcs by Thrall, and making it appear that WE were the ones that enslaved the orcs (by showing him the internment camps). While this doesn't excuse everything Grom did...he did what he did out of the belief that he was protecting his people by making a preemptive strike against dangerous invaders out to enslave his race. The problem here isn't the story...I was hoping for a redemption of Grom from the beginning (after all, he and Thrall were best friends in our reality, Thrall considered him like an older brother). The problem is, the story wasn't portrayed in-game. I think what happened was, Grom learned who we really are (and who Garrosh really was) off-screen, during the time he was imprisoned, and he probably had a "my god, what have I done" moment (once again, off-screen). They will probably put out a novel or short story about it. But yes, once again, the problem here is that vital parts of the storyline are only being shown in supplementary materials, and not in the game itself.

[@saar95]

The dungeon journal says- Happy anniversary to me. God damn it safeway commercial.

[@RealDaswolfen]

8/2 - Unlikely we will have a legiony expansion 8/6 - Gamescon expansion reveal: World of Warcraft: Legion

[@johnpotter2947]

I think with the ending we see the Grommash like we saw when he killed Mannoroth with Thrall in our timeline. We see the orc who has witnessed all of these horrible things and has truly changed his ways. And that's why there is peace, because he's not trying to conquer anymore. Now he just wants peace because he sees what his conquests could have done to Draenor. That's just me though.

[@dimitrov699]

Hmm, needs more plot-twists. Grommash to Yrel: 'I am ur father'

[@MrCoolios12]

Will you do a full cover of the legendary questline? I want to know what happens at the absolute end and stuff...

[@wearloga]

A disappointing end to an expansion that started off more awesome than I expected, even after playing the beta. If this is what WoW is coming to the should start making a single player variant where you can just do the quests and be done.... Thank you Nobble for keeping me up to date with all the stories since I cancelled my subscription. I still really care for the stories by Blizzard, but just couldn't be bothered any more to play the game. Thanks to you I can still experience the story. I can't wait for your update on the last part of the legendary quest line.

[@flowrflower5152]

Nobbel was one of the only ones left alive to kill mannoroth. Good job

[@852kronos]

8:26 Ok here's a thought, he did change the future. Think about it, maybe in his vision he didn't switch sides and he saw his death, so when guldan gave him the opportunity he took it, fearing the alternative

[@Magician12345]

in that final bit where they show the warlords the guy who's supposed to be duratan looks more like ganar cus he's got 2 axes. but ganar doesnt wear a wolfs fur on his head.

[@cooltv2776]

my reasoning for gul'dan being able to summon archimond without a spell book or crazy long ritual is because hes one of the most powerful magic users that ever existed. while kel'thuzad was also very powerful, I dont think he was even close to gul'dan

[@Devolgane4]

Alex Gregory Meh, don't overthink this, it's just another plothole of WoDs lore. I mean, he just summoned ARCHIMONDE like nothing, out of nowhere. If he gained such power (wich must be A LOT), why didn't he helped him during the fight ? "One of the most powerful magic users that ever existed" + freaking Archimonde never should have lost that easily. It could have been an epic encounter with a big build up for Archimonde's arrival and it SHOULD HAVE taken sacrifices to win this one. I mean, come on...

[@WormyMaster]

I should be sleeping right now instead of watching this... Damn you Nobbel-temptation!!

[@TolvoZynaSheHer]

Grommash being forgiven is so weird. It's like if at the end of Pandaria after we beat Garrosh he went "Well no more Sha I guess I did wrong but hey war's over so yay right?" and everyone just went "Oh ok we forgive you." Grommash is really only slightly above Garrosh morally in regards to the things he's done, and that's like a really fine line there. I mean really they were functionally the same. A regime where any dissenters were killed, people enslaved, children captured, people tormented and bodies twisted, lands destroyed, attempted genocide, Grommash was even willing to accept Void Magic but since he didn't accept the Burning Legion he's welcome back with open arms? Yeah sure he was manipulated, that really doesn't matter many of these things are like 101 "Oh this is morally wrong stuff to do" and again just about as bad as what Garrosh did. "Well Garrosh betrayed his own people." "So did Grommash! The Frostwolves are his own people. I can get him getting tricked into invading Azeroth, he had literally no idea about what would be on the other side and could have seen it as preemptively attacking a hostile faction when he already knew a demon came to try and enslave/kill his people. But his actions towards the Draenei, towards the Orcs not in the Iron Horde? Really no excuse on that front for Garrosh he's a genocidal tyrant.