The STRONGEST Bugs of Warhammer, Destiny & Starcraft

[@eonranger8884]

I'm probably underestimating them cause Tyranids are probably the faction I know the least about in 40k, but one thing to note about the hive is that their legions would probably get unbelievably stronger from having an unending source of cannon fodder, since every enemy they kill litterally helps them grow. Also, there's Xivu Arath who litterally gets stronger any time there is conflict ANYWHERE in the universe. Her being in the 40k universe would probably unironically make her as powerful as Khorne himself. There's also the fact that any being in the Destiny universe can make a throne world, granted they are strong enough and follow the sword logic Like Mara Sov and the Mindbender, not just hive gods. In this scenario, there'd likely be a ton of ascendent hive running around.

[@GenericName0042]

Yeah, Xivu is an enemy who is basically impossible to fight against traditionally, cause you'll only ever be empowering her.

[@greatwhitnorth]

Lmao you are very much underestimating the Tyranids. They are arguably the number one threat to all of the factions in 40k right now.

[@BAGELMENSK]

Tyrannid swarms adapt from being killed, having become immune to many toxins and developed gills or laser reflective carapaces depending on the battle space. Tyrannids also consume the corpses of their enemies and their own fallen in order to reproduce and gain their enemies intelligence. They also have a particular ability to disrupt magical abilities.

[@someoneold5426]

Sorry for the two month late reply. Tyranids are extremely adaptable. I assume you are aware of the life eater virus? The imperiums favoured method of exterminatus. The reason it’s not used on the nids because it would only work once… and that’s a planet killing weapon… there are many problems that come with fighting nids

[@fanatic9926]

@@greatwhitnorth they don't have ftl if I'm not mistaken, it puts them at such a colossal disadvantage against the hive it's not even funny.

[@cameronnelson632]

Something I want to mention is that you said Oryx couldn't take the Tyranids because of their Hivemind but I would disagree with that statement because of the Vex. The Vex are also a hivemind intelligence that have proven to be susceptible to becoming Taken, the only difference between them is that individual Vex collectives can disagree with one another, but that doesn't remove the fact that the act of Taking is to force one's own will upon their victim, transforming them into a vessel of their own dominance, the individual Tyranid that was Taken would become cut off from the Hivemind, becoming a vessel for the will of their new master.

[@LostEnding_]

It doesn’t need to be a hive mind(the vex are not hive minds either) all they need is a will

[@megamente7849]

Funny you think vex is aleast a 0,1% ass powefull that the hivemind

[@rexwer8723]

Remember Quria who is taken

[@Aoe-Plays]

@@LostEnding_how many times did you just check out when Zavala said "the vex hive mind"🤣

[@LostEnding_]

@@Aoe-Plays the sol divisive quite literally serves the witness none of the other vex do… it’s not hard to comprehend when the game tells you multiple that the vex are not a hive mind. You can’t have a hive mind with 2 different and opposing philosophy’s. During one of the seasons this is stated. “Osiris noted that Vex in the Infinite Forest deemed 'aberrant', because of how their thinking went against the rest of the consensus, would be quarantined from the rest of the Vex and destroyed.”So no the vex are not a hive mind.

[@skalgrimfellaxe5796]

Three things are misunderstood here and give the Tyranid a greater edge. 1: They are a gestalt conscience - this is established lore. So no singular thing to kill to win. (You would need to kill all their bioships to win, every single hive fleet and tendril, and possibly in several galaxies and in the void between as well) 2: The shadow in the warp isn't a lack of psychic power. Its the overwhelming nature of the Tyranid hive mind moving closer to a target. Its basically a static white noise that grows in intensity as a hive fleet gets closer, causing pain and distress to psykers and weakening or even sending demons back into the warp. Tyranids can also travel in and use the warp, but very rarely do, instead opting to use their own means of FTL travel. So I don't think the dieties would be able to hide for ever. 3: The Tyranids consume everything on a planet that is or can be used as biomass. This includes metals and minerals from the crust, all the oceans and the atmosphere. They can consume lifeless worlds, gas giants and asteriods - its just that they are after biomass because it means they get access to new genetic material and also in the process they kill off potential threats to themselves.

[@martinnavarrete5279]

Im pretty sure the tyranids do not have ftl, their specialize bioships are capable of incredible speed but sublight, that is one of the reasons they havent consume most of the imperium, warp travel is simply much faster. But what is true is that the concience of the hive is inposible to destroy, probably you would have to kill every single tyranid to do it. But it is true that the lost of higher tyranids bioforms is dangerous for their coordination, beacuse yes each individual tyranid warrior is extremly dangerous, but if they lack coordination is much easier to deal with them.

[@skalgrimfellaxe5796]

@@martinnavarrete5279 No them having FTL has been part of the lore since second or third edition. They (up until 10'th ed) only relied on real space warping through gravitic means using a bioship called a Narvhal that can lock onto starsystems over vast distances and by unknown means use a target planets own gravity to create a "funnel" in realspace through which the Hive fleet will then travel. This is slower than warp - but FTL. It has several effects though, mostly pretty dire ones for the targeted planet that will start to experience earth quakes and vulcanic eruptions as the fleet draws closer. The last stretch of the way is however done at sub-light speed as the nids kind of "glide" to their target. They are also almost undetectable during travel up until the very last distance before they arrive as they don't use the warp. They can't use the Narhval inside of a gravity well though, but must move a bit away from planets as the proximity to a gravity well makes it impossible for the Narvhal to locate a new target due to interference. In 10'th it has also been said that they can use the warp - but for unknown reasons have only ever done so once from what Im told. So that might just be a BL author that doesn't know Tyranid lore.

[@williamdavies1373]

Tyranids FTL actually helps demonstrate their intelligence, what they do is a hive fleet will bend space and reality itself, travel the first 90% of the way to the target, and then simply fly towards the target world just below lightspeed. They do this, in case when they manifest inside the planet itself or in a star. In lore, they will actually consume the planet itself such as the minerals, magma, and planet's core - leaving the planet nothing more than a skeleton. It's never talked about much because Tyranids begin with biomass. After all, it is easiest to break, and they can collect and replicate the DNA of the species as well as look into the brains and DNA to discover weaknesses and strategies used and create the best warriors with the best attributes to front them. Some part of the lore says, that when a hive fleet gets big enough they'll start consuming stars, lifeless planets, and even blackholes to get the energy and minerals to further and sustain their growth. Also, depending on the size and complexity of the Tyranid force the shadow in the warp gets exponentially more powerful and complex - until it can begin messing and controlling electrical and mechanical objects through manifesting electromagnetic waves, so the bigger the Tyranids, the less effective technology becomes.

[@gengarghast]

Ascendant Plane is not the Warp. To enter it, you'd need to gain access to it through paracausal power of your own, or to be allowed entrance.

[@Coclroach]

It’s not really just white noise in the warp when the tyranids are around. From what I’ve read and heard, the tyranids wherever they are in real space pretty much break apart the warp in the same place. That’s why it’s impossible to travel in the warp when next to worlds that have been conquered by the tyranids

[@lockandbone6784]

I have been trying to homebrew an alien species for a D&D campaign and this has been immensely helpful! Glad I found your channel!

[@Buster-McTunder]

Welcome aboard! Making homebrew D&D stuff is always fun… maybe I’ll do a video about it eventually

[@lockandbone6784]

@@Buster-McTunder that would be sick. I looked all over the place for insectoid monster inspirations online and your video was the most helpful. Your in-depth explanation of lore is badass.

[@lockandbone6784]

​@@Buster-McTunder Had to come back, I just got my first Warhammer starter set and im working on assembling tyranids. You sold me on them. My players are going to stumble across an infected planet seemingly dormant. 😁

[@Buster-McTunder]

@@lockandbone6784 they’re cool. I like painting Tyranids because I get really gross with it. Although they can get monotonous at times. Hope they have fun facing down unending waves of devouring flesh!

[@lockandbone6784]

@@Buster-McTunder I have 2 shit talking murder hobos that tell me my encounters are too weak. They've been basically begging for a TPK 😂

[@gengarghast]

Just gonna say this, Oryx can still take Vex despite them being not only part of a hive mind, but technically just a bunch of microscopic organisms. If he's able to Take the Vex, he's definitely able to Take the Tyranids.

[@rememberjerry936]

Hmm I didn’t know anything about destinys lore, but now i think their hive faction would be closest to chaos daemons.

[@amx-103hammahamma2]

That role might fall on either the Taken or the Scorn.

[@TheBitingBat]

Yeah tbh I'd compare the Hive to Chaos more than the nids. I'd pay good money to see Xivu Arath vs Khorne to see which god of war is strongest

[@TyBe-uo4ud]

It is AMAZING lore, please look it up.

[@pukei-pukei2536]

​@TheBitingBat as a war god, Khorne is probably more effective, as his domain is war, violence, and blood. His nature as a psychic parasite also makes him more damaging to societies and civilizations. Xivu's domains are war, violence and love, because the hive have that weird philosophy that means you should kill the ones you love to make them stronger/validate them as deserving to exist. She doesn't have quite as potent a domain to draw from as Khorne, and is a physical being rather than a psychic parasite, so not as much wide scale effect. However, she can take to the field herself, and she's a skilled general and tactician, and regularly leads her army's herself. Khorne is a worse problem for any galaxy that he occurs in, but Xivu is a much worse problem for the local level.

[@naoway336]

@@pukei-pukei2536 Khorne isn't just war violence and blood he is also a god of honor,duty and protection.

[@eyesoftomorrow6647]

I know I'm late and the Tyranids have been declared victors however I will say these things 1: The vex are the most comperable thing in the destiny universe to the Tyranids, Oryx can take them and they are extremely similar stripping the planets of biomass to meet the pattern 2: The sword logic actively empowers hive who believe in it and follow it. So Hive that kill weaker tyranids rank up become stronger and we'd get an orcs vs Tyranids situtation with a bunch of ascendant hive 3: there is innumerable hive already they in total have caused more known extinctions than the tyranids destroying species solar systems at a time and killing wish dragons 4: If we are doing hive at their strongest strongest strongest Oryx has a pet wish dragon.

[@TheSniped117]

As someone who knows a lot about the tyranids here is some stuff the video didn't mention. #1 The Tyranids have something called the Shadow of the warp no one really knows what exactly causes it, (be it the hive mind or what) but what it does is entirely suppresses all attempts to use the warp for: communication, transportation, and many other things (this is because the warp is used for those things in 40k). If the ascendant plane is equivalent to the warp then this would completely prevent any travel to of from it. Preventing the giga hive members from even getting involved. If they aren't equivalent then who knows how it would effect the hive. #2: No one really knows how many galaxies the tyranids have consumed, the milky way in 40k is surrounded. In addition to that the silent king a necron nerd left the milky way and came back freaking out because of the tyranids. So in 40k we assume the tyranids have consumed all the nearby galaxies at least. At most the universe. #3: The warp is essentially the tyranids biggest weakness because when they kill daemons they don't gain any biomass. HOWEVER the tyranids have created a hive fleet specifically for dealing with the warp. Known as hive fleet Kronos. We aren't sure what other tricks and measures the tyranids have at their disposal for the warp yet but they continue to adapt their strategy to combat these obstacles. #4: The biggest thing when it comes to trying to out attrition the Tyranids is biomass. One thing to keep in mind is the tyranids consume all biomass on the molecular level and can adapt to essentially anything other then magical stuff and even then we don't completely know. They even consume their own dead to create more troops. They show up at a plant and strip it of every usable molicular element from the periodic table and reorganize them into bioforms. The individual bioforms aren't important as the hive mind will make the ideal forms given the situation. (In 40k it just happens to be more bodies then the enemy has ammo) The last thing to remember is their is nothing to "corrupt" each "tyranid" is just a single cell of the single larger organism known as the hive mind. Final thoughts: I bet the hive mind is probably extremely similar to the hive. They probably both exist in a similar untouchable "plane" to each other. Which means all that will happen is the bioforms and lesser hive will have skirmishes that would amount to nothing.

[@cody1570]

The tyranids have already wiped out a galaxy. The problem is, nobody knows if it was one galaxy or several. Judging how the tyranids are wrapping the galaxy its safe to say it was several and its still only the vangaurd entering. There is no where near as much hive as there are Tyranids. And thralls killing termigaunts? If they manage to kill 2 they will still be swarmed. In a nut shell, tyranids cant be controlled or imprisoned. Trayzn already tried both and failed. One of his exibits was in a tine stasis field, stopping time and yet the tyranids psychic disruption dissabled that affect over time

[@naoway336]

@@TheSniped117 I think the zerg are just better Nids, as for the Hive IDK ORYX was solid, but I don't think Kerrigan loses to ORYX she has killed gods in their own dimension before. As for destructive capabilities, we don't know if the nids are extra galactic or not, but we do know in the Starcraft timeline before it was altered by Zeratul the Zerg scoured the entire universe of life and ended the cycle. We also know that post starcraft the Zerg have the ability to repopulate the entire universe with all the life that died under Amons Scheme. That's because end game zerg have the DNA of every species in the whole universe.

[@TheSniped117]

@naoway336 The 40k setting is like 5 order of magnitudes higher in power then the starcraft setting. Of all the hive mind type enemies aside from the flood the tyranids would dominate them all. They like the zerg keep all of the DNA from all the trillions of species they have consumed. But unlike the zerg they have destroyed countless civilizations unlike the zerg who struggle with toss and Terrans on the daily.

[@naoway336]

@@TheSniped117 You're talking early game zerg, End game zerg are on a whole different level. They didn't just wipe out galaxies. End game zerg both destroyed all life in the galaxy, as shown in the revelation missions. And also had the burden of reintroducing all life to the universe again. The zerg end game do not just have the DNA they have consumed. They have ALL DNA in the universe because that is their purpose to return all life back to the universe. Zerg do not struggle with toss, they struggle with being a mostly pacifist species, the Zerg went from about 20,000 zerg to trillions in the span of a year when they finally decided to fight and thats with the protoss glassing every planet they were found on. Simply put End Game Zerg is there to become gods, and take up their work.

[@the_word_bearer]

i give you an A for effort and style and lore narration

[@SlimeyZockt]

I only really know Destiny lore. While Oryx and Savathun would be just immune and could draw out a stalemate until they win by default, Xivu is a bit different. A Hive god who gain sher strength through combat and war. An endless war would be entirely in her favour, growing more powerful with each death, if her own brood or the Tyranids. She could fight them for so long that maybe some day she can just eradicate them all at some point. And this is not an evolution or something, she would just get more and more powerful. She is also known as a great tactitian, so she might even get an upper hand when she works together with Savathun and Oryx to take them down

[@silverthehero1295]

Yeah, he didn’t include Xivu at all, assuming the three siblings would work together here.

[@nilesstandish1802]

Xivu is a problem in any fight, especially on the same side as Savathun. Because you cannot win through sheer force or cunning without empowering them.

[@Wormy_fren]

Don't forget wrathborn Since the condition has spread to the fallen and cabal I have absolutely no trouble doubting that the wrathborn virus for lack of a better term could take over the Tyranids and hollow them out for Xivu to use as she wishes.

[@energyvanquish]

Xivu’s power comes from conflict in general. Even coming up with strategies and tactics fuels her. Which is why it’s would’ve been impossible to take her on without siphoning from her tribute.

[@pales4155]

Another thing to consider with Xivu is that she has wrathborn (mind controlling different races to act as combatants) so the hive have two ways of stealing combatants.

[@timberwolfbrother]

I've seen another video similar to this one, tho it only covered Tyranids vs Zerg, which pointed out one thing it seems like you missed: the Zerg's greatest advantage is in the type made by the Xel'Naga, AKA: the playable faction. They can produce entities like Abathur which provide intelligent design to new Zerg. Where the Tyranids are often reactive, even if highly-effective, the Zerg can adapt by taking note of target capabilities and create new Zerg without requiring additional biomass. They also have sub-commander types like the Cerberates and Queens which like to take over when there's a power vacuum. The outcome of that video was that the end result would be that neither side would so much as win, as the rest of the galaxy would lose by being caught up in an evolutionary arms-race.

[@paradoxington]

I also would like to point out how rapid the Zerg ability to evolve is. Evolution can happen within moments even in a battlefield setting. If one zergling eats a tyranid, they can adapt all of their useful traits and “broadcast” it to all other Zerg units within the connected swarm. It quite literally only takes one consumption for the Zerg to get their foot in the door of not only the Shadow in the Warp, but Sword Logic as well theoretically. And again this can happen within seconds to minutes on a battlefield. If a Zerg like Abathur is involved this can be extremely dangerous for the other factions since they can cherry pick every single counter necessary more rapidly than their adversaries.

[@ArmandoEnfectana-bp6jo]

​@@paradoxington, Those Bugs had they're own thoughts, if they lose they're leader, they will fight each other and eat each other, because of this, they are probe to manipulation.

[@naoway336]

post game zerg do not need an evolutionary arms race. They have the DNA of everything in the Universe inside them and are tasked with bringing life back to the universe to maintain the cycle.

[@zxshadowxz]

⁠​⁠​Just a quick correction. The Zerg in the post story don’t have every single piece of DNA. They were given material from the dead Xel’Naga to create the Adostra, which are able to psionically promote life on the planet they’re implanted on. The Swarm are using them to Terraform planets back into liveable condition.

[@naoway336]

@@zxshadowxz Yes and no, they have assimulated Xel'naga which have the DNA of all the species within their code. while the ones terraforming planets are not directly within the swarm, the ones abathur made are.

[@sambroadhurst0]

I think you have vastly underplayed one of the key features of tyranids and zerg but its greater for the zerg as its their core mechanic. Ultimate evolution it was played in the games as a ramping up threat but as shown especially in kerigans games zerg evolve both on what they fight and what they consume if they are facing an opponent with any biological based abilities the zerg will have have gained those abilities, this includes intelligence as the leaders in the zerg are capable of tactics and planed genetic manipulation in preparation for future threats. Unless your fighting already ramped up zerg, expect to win the first fight probably win the first 6 months but by then they have all of their own abilities, all of your abilities and are breeding an army a hundred times faster than you can respond to. You wipe out the zerg completely and fast or you lose.

[@IAmAlpharius20]

Tyranids literally outmass them by a factor of 10000000000 to 1. And the Hive Mind also does the same stuff, so lol

[@ds2781]

@@IAmAlpharius20 It's not that the zerg can do the same things as the tyranids and the hive it's the speed at which they can do it . For the tyranids and the hive they can adapt to changes and threats EVENTUALLY , however the zerg can adapt to threats in MINUTES . In starcraft 2 heart of the swarm you actually get to see them adapt to threats and evolve new abilities in minutes and these upgrades are immediately applied to the entire zerg swarm throughout the entire galaxy . In tyranids this can take anywhere from weeks to years just like with the hive . The zerg simply adapt and evolve to fast for either faction to deal with , unless they completely wipe them out immediately and don't allow them the chance to evolve or withdraw they can win . Also in regards to the tyranids having more numbers , the zerg just don't need them . As was stated in the video the tyranids can usually consume a world and strip it of life in 100 days . The zerg have done this in a matter of hours against fortified worlds defended by troops and defenses specifically designed and trained to wipe them out and they did it with a fraction of the forces that the tyranids use . In warhammer 40k the average life span of a regular guardsmen in flak armor armed only with a lasgun is 16 HOURS . In starcraft the average lifespan of a roided out soldier in power armor wielding an 8mm railgun that hits like an autocannon is JUST.30.SECONDS . If the zerg get even a little bit of time to adapt they can evolve and adapt to anything , even the radiation that was mentioned as a "weakness" has been absorbed into their bodies to strengthen existing units . The zergs ability to evolve is just evolution on steroids and crank .

[@IAmAlpharius20]

@@ds2781 uh, actually that's because Marines are idiots. They literally spent an entire engagement turning around in circles Also, Tyranids also evolve rapidly. Or did the Carnifex sprouting wings and flying in response to boltwr fire slip your mind

[@ds2781]

@@IAmAlpharius20 That's ONE carnifex , in a single hive fleet , in a single solar system . Not every carnifex , in every hive fleet , every where in the universe . When the tyranids evolve to counter a threat any changes are limited to that single hive fleet located in that particular system and it usually takes weeks to do at a minimum . When the zerg alter themselves it's applied to their ENTIRE SPECIES , EVERYWHERE , INSTANTLY . Also with the tyranids , forcing one creature to rapidly change requires the hivemind to focus on that one individual creature to accelerate the process . With the zerg it just happens automatically with almost no effort in a matter of minutes .

[@IAmAlpharius20]

@@ds2781 source? Tyranids are able to do that easily

[@XaviusNight]

Apologies for long post, was writing notes as I watched the video. Some notes on my thoughts: 1. I think it's unfair to put the Zerg in their pre-Brood War configuration for this fight - the Overmind is over 20 years obsolete by the time of the end of Legacy of the Void, and actually has multiple methods of backing up its chain of command, and has vastly improved its organizational structure. The fact alone that Zagara can rebuild herself after being slain in battle is immensely useful in this fight, and theoretically the other Swarm Queens can do the same with their broods post LotV. 2. We also know now that they only need biomass samples from other species to begin replicating traits from them - in the 20 years since the Brood War, multiple new Zerg species were and variant strains were created through the acquisition of single-digits numbers of gene/essence samples from remote colonies. 3. And on top of that, they do have the ability to be just as subtle as the other two - and able to integrate technology and overtake it, meaning that even the Hive's biotech and mechanical tech isn't safe. The Zerg aren't pushovers, and would be making the worlds they inhabit just as hostile to the other two as vice-versa. It'd only take a few lesser Vex being infested (since there isn't a pre-programmed disconnect like with the Protoss) to begin getting access to their throneworlds. 4. The Swarmlord isn't even close to the most powerful combatants the Tyranids can field - he's just the best strategic mind, and arguably one of the only *actual* minds aside from the Swarm Mind's in the entirety of the Tyranid synaptic network. Basing things on his combat abilities isn't really fair to the Tyranids, who actually would probably be most dangerous for their unending waves of toxins, virulent super-plagues, and synaptic networking than for their direct combat skills. 5. The Tyranids can *shut down* interdimensional rifts - Hive Fleet Kronos' whole thing is that their Shadow in the Warp is so strong that it's actually healing the damage to the material plane caused by the Warp nearby where the hive fleet is. It might only be disruptions of Sword Logic rifts for the vast majority of hive fleets, but that's still an important ability to consider. 6. The Tyranids don't "not have a presence in the Warp", they have an *OVERWHELMING* presence in the Warp that smooths it out and undoes its causal damage to the fabric of reality (Which, if they weren't intent on eating everything *in* the material plane, would make them the good guys, but oh well). Their presence forces the Warp, which reflects the mental state of beings in the material realm, to calm and then go silent; likely, it's because it's trillions upon trillions of lives with a singular mind, the Warp is just wiped smooth by sheer brute psychic force. That said, this might be a case of two settings having similar, but entirely different systems - 'magic' in 40k is just Psychic Power manifesting portions of the Warp, which has been tainted by ancient wars and horrible, horrible catastrophes that afflicted the entire galaxy. Meanwhile, the Light and the Dark in Destiny appear to be their own things, separate from the Throneworlds, which are closer to pocket dimensions than the Warp is. (disclaimer, I know a lot less about Destiny than I do about 40k and SC, so I might miss a few things) 7. I think you might be underestimating the ability to make things into Taken - Tyranids, when cut off from the Synaptic Network, *do* possess animal-level, or sometimes stronger, intelligences. Notably, most Synapse-projecting Tyranids (like Hive Tyrants, Malaceptors, Zoanthropes, etc.) could probably have some small spark of a 'soul-like' spark of individuality when fully separated. Specialized infiltrators like Lictors and Genestealers *often* develop their own personalities and habits due to spending long periods away from Synapse range, meaning that these organisms would likely be able to become Taken. Though, this *might* turn into an infection vector within the Throneworld if the Tyranids take advantage of this to trojan in additional organisms hidden inside the larger creatures being Taken. 8. The Worm Hive may have an additional upper hand - all of their units are, to some degree, individuals, each contributing. The Zerg's massive power spike by the end of LotV was because they embraced having actual individuals in the position of Swarm Queen, and Abathur has always been his own creature. The Tyranids lack any form of individualism when connected to the Synapse network, aside from the Swarmlord, so it's possible that the Hive might start being able to outmanuever the Swarm Mind thanks to out-of-the-box thinking from the fanatical Hive members with clever minds.

[@zeed_02]

I have to correct 2 things, the Tyranids have norn queens who also have their own intelligence and command fleets, that is, they have many intelligent leaders , second all known Tyranids including the leaders, are workers destined to consume the galaxies, not their real fighting force, which supposedly has not yet arrived in the galaxy (previously there was another possibility that they were actually fleeing from a greater power) Therefore we cannot make assumptions about its real power because according to the lore we have never seen it.

[@ze_darku_magician5504]

These D2 vs War Hammer vids are awesome. I've been having a ton of fun learning about some War Hammer stuff. Destiny and War Hammer both seem to be ridiculously dumb in terms of power-scaling but in different ways. The War Hammer universe is the kid that says "My alien faction has whatever the power of your alien faction is *10!) while the Destiny universe is the kid that replies "Well yes but my alien faction can always retreat into para-causal parallel universes in which they are practically invincible and they cannot truly die outside of those dimensions!).

[@Buster-McTunder]

They really are just gi joes personified

[@arioaheran6057]

Same, i like it too, its like lesson the the great good stories while you watching a good movie of great wars

[@caljam82]

Don’t forget about Xivu Arath reveling from a long war. If all three give gods all in play I think the combination of oryx and xivu arath might have the edge

[@naoway336]

IDK Kerrigan has killed gods before in their home dimension.

[@el_androi1203]

Being a hivemind doesn't prevent individual units from being taken. Such is the case for the Vex in Destiny.

[@arioaheran6057]

Bro, simply, even chaos gods could not take this monsters, same for oryx, no tyranids can be taken, be logical

[@1000clones]

@@arioaheran6057what are you talking about? The gods of warhammer can’t take. In warhammer beings are corrupted by their soul being invaded. In destiny it’s never confirmed that a soul exists. Orex takes their physical body and pulls them into another dimension. He was able to do it to the vex who were just robots. Even if he weren’t able to turn the tyranyds he would still have them trapped where they weren’t a threat.

[@zxshadowxz]

To be fair, while part of a linked collective, the Vex units are still “individuals”, just individuals all synced up to a single objective.

[@Ra13zRS40M]

The hive in my opinion, I can’t remember how it works exactly but if the hive grow stronger with war, and they fight constantly with hen there’s going to be a lot of hive champions and ascendants being made. Like the mindvender made a throne world off killing cayde, so some knights and wizards killing many powerful nids and zergs would probably get them to a throne world too

[@Kestrel990]

There would probably be a lot of hive assending with such a big conflict. If the hive grow powerful enough in sword logic (killing/winning), they can create there own throne world.

[@rpk321]

You vastly underplayed the Zerg, and even get several details outright wrong. I will only address one thing you got wrong: Just the "just kill the one leader" and the zerg is done show you severely misunderstood the Zerg. They have a plethora of Commander types that scattered all across the hiearchy, so just kill a leader won't do it. And they aren't exactly idiots that would turn on one another right in front of their enemies. The "The Swarm descented into chaos again and again" forgot that ALL and Every leaders was killed. And even then, new leaders emerged again. Something that is not at all different from the Tyranid. As in, yes the Tyranid hive could also lose cohesion for a bit when their synapse creatures are killed. And even before that, unless you have very specific space magic energy, you CANNOT kill a Zerg Leader. Sure you can destroy the physical body, but they are very much still there and will show up again in a minute or two right in that same battle. The Zerg can adapt and produce like no one else. And for all the Tyranid consuming the biomass and useful materials of an entire planet is shown as some great and horrible thing, but I will say that it shows that the Tyranid lack long term planning. Considering the Zerg very much like to maintain their planets and planetoids. They can recover their numbers again and again and again. The Tyranid can't exactly do that after they consume the planet entirely. Hell, the end game shown that the Zerg is fully capable of terra-forming entire planets to be inhabitable for themselves and even every other species. And they can make some light adaptation to their enemy mid-battle, a deeper adaptation within days at latest and as early as right after a battle. Even worse, they can Actively Adapt. They can observe their enemies and adjust themselves accordingly with self-made specialized gene masters. So yes, you severely underplayed and nerfed the Zerg to hell and back. Tho, the true issue is the Tyranid and the Zerg becoming one and everyone else is fucked.

[@eljefe485]

The only thing insectoid about the hive are the worms or moths that are living inside each one. I would say the fallen are more insectoid. Hive are more zombie and undead themed.

[@piwopijec338]

It's worth mentioning that Tyranids can and do use warp based powers to great effect, even manage to counter Daemons on a daemon world in the official lore. Also, they are from outside of our galaxy, some say that they consumed several others before coming to ours (as in: they are many, great invasion fleets are nothing but a probing tentacles of a greater whole). No idea on how they compare in mind powers to Destiny Big Guys (ripping a soul out is a thing), but Kerrigan would struggle with a single Norn Emissary, and there are many more where that came from. Tyranids are bad in space combat/travel time though, so it's not a sure thing. Best they can offer is "more targets than you have ammo".

[@makootithebionicman3612]

"Existence is worthiness, that which cannot defend itself must die. This is the true shape, Aiat."

[@kilometers162]

These are some of my all time favorite sci fi worlds, and it’s great to see them all put together. Based as hell.

[@thedoc7184]

I love biomechanics mixing with arcane. Very awesome

[@TheLordofMetroids]

Tyrnids One thing to point out, the Doom of Malan'tai eats souls. It eats souls before they can enter a Soulstone. I don't know how fast the soul of a "god," returns to its throne world, but if it takes a while the Nids WILL adapt and figure out a way to eat it. They are already doing this with Demons, and they are pure warp energy. I have no doubt that if it comes down to a battle of attrition the Great Devourer will become stronger, while the Hive only becomes weaker.

[@Wormy_fren]

Ah yes the doom of Malan tai.... Who appeared once and basically has never been mentioned since. I dunno man if you ask me poor lil fella is probably retconned or at least canned.

[@Cybercoin]

Instantly. If you kill a Hive God or Ascendant Hive, they instantly go into their Throne World upon death.

[@TheFrozen_Aba]

@@Cybercoin and with the conflict between the hive and the tyranids xivu would just keep coming back and keep getting stronger as she feeds off of conflict and every attempt to outsmart the hive would just feed savathun as well and thats not mentioning oryx that would just take the tyranids

[@Cybercoin]

@@TheFrozen_Aba Not sure if he could take Tyranids. He needs something with a mind. From what I gather Tyranids are a hivemind and don't have individuals.

[@TheFrozen_Aba]

@@Cybercoin that also applies to the vex They're the expression of a memetic pattern and appear to share information in a network. They don't seem self-aware, they don't use symbolic reasoning, so the concept of something like "individual" wouldn't even occur to them and guess what oryx can take them

[@TheBitingBat]

Oryx literally solos. Im sorry I love Warhammer but the Taken King can literally take entire worlds, cut reality using physical strength alone, he's chaos god level casually. Oryx can destroy and corrupt ascendant spaces which are literally higher dimensional spaces. And taking isn't just a physical takeover, it hollows out and sharpens, it severs those taken from reality itself, even hiveminds like vex or other ascendant paracausal beings like Riven. Add to that the entirety of the Hive fleet, with warmoons, annihilator totems, death songs, magic, and near immortality from ascendancy, the Hive got this comfortably.

[@ericespinoza763]

Yeah not only that But In one of the lore cards he even took somebody That was capable of destroying moons With ease Also this person was supposedly stronger than him Because he said She would have won If This was a fair fight

[@IAmAlpharius20]

Casually ignoring that the Hive Mind makes Oryx look like a bad joke lmao 12 galaxies of Nids makes him a nonfactor

[@supahgaming8249]

while this is true the best part is that oryx isnt even the strongest, savathun and especially xivu (pre season of the witch) are both even stronger

[@Kestrel990]

@@supahgaming8249 oryx is definitely stronger than xivu, it is debatable about wether he is stronger than savathun after she stole the light. But oryx and savathun are both way stronger than xivu. She is the last sibling remaining because she avoided the guardians the entire story

[@supahgaming8249]

@@Kestrel990 no. pre season of the witch xivu is objectively the strongest and it’s not debatable, oryx hasn’t been the strongest for a long while

[@AdeptN7]

Two things you forgot about the Shadow in the Warp abilities, 1: It can potentially mess up or outright kill Wizards, and 2: It can prevent communication(other psionic connections like the Hive has) and Warp travel with the potential to trap the souls of the Hive Warlords on one plane or the other

[@naoway336]

I haven't watched the full vid yet, but most people who compare StarCraft don't do a very good job with the Zerg. They are incredibly op end game.

[@naoway336]

Kerrigan becomes a universe level threat capable of of blowing up planets and seeding the universe with life.

[@trigz8626]

@@naoway336 Indeed, but most of them don’t really understand the Zerg or start by thinking that they are just worse Tyranids, they are not. But its kinda meaningless to argue with 40k fan, they forget that the sole reason that their war never end is because every faction is either too dumb to act with intelligence or stuck in a never ending lore circle (the Tyranids for example). Its funny because Zerg and Tyranids could both have took over their whole respective verse if there was no plot shield. Its still a mystery for me that the zerg are limited to one sector when they reproduce at an incredibly fast pace and travel faster than the Tyranids… Thats what I call a « Plot device »

[@naoway336]

@@trigz8626 The zerg were limited to a single sector because of Amon and the Overmind, remember the Overmind was not originally meant to be part of the zerg biology.

[@superspartan8086]

Compared to the rest, the hive’s sword logic alone stands above anything that the other two factions have at their immediate disposal. As told to the player when inspecting the lore of the Geomag Stabilizer boots, 2/3 wizards killed (fully) a young Ikora Rey’s friend, meaning that regular wizards alone are strong enough to kill guardians, much less tyranids. That’s without considering the factions of the hive that are so ridiculously powerful it’s a wonder that the guardian is still alive. For instance, the deathsingers who simply speak and all whom they address die no questions asked, or the hive that dwell within the hellmouth, a place in which an entire strike team of guardians were ravaged leaving only one survivor without her ghost (being Eris). The hive’s power doesn’t come from sheer numbers or physicality like the Tyranids, it’s from the sword logic and the paracausal nature of their universe. Neither of the other factions can truly stand up to the hive alone, much less the taken.

[@BAGELMENSK]

The end result of all these terrifying swarms fighting each other would be all of them adapting to become stronger and deadlier in a vicious stalemate, much like the armageddon war in 40k

[@Umbra314]

Hive stomp. Even ignoring Xivu Arath, who tithes off all war, becoming more powerful each time anything is killed in a war, the other two hive gods would destroy the others, becoming nearly infinitely powerful with the tithing of billions of creatures lives.

[@IAmAlpharius20]

Wait till you realize that there are 12 galaxies worth of Tyranids. Hive mind goes omnomnom

[@naoway336]

I think there are some pretty core features of zerg that allow them to stomp both hive and nids.

[@Umbra314]

@@IAmAlpharius20 12 galaxies of Tyranids, or in other words 12 galaxies of tithes for Xivu Arath to become nearly infinitely powerful off.

[@IAmAlpharius20]

@@Umbra314 you do know that means the Hive Mind is considerably more powerful than her, right

[@Umbra314]

@@IAmAlpharius20 for now. Unless they somehow kill her in her throne world, she will grow more powerful with literally everything that dies in an act of war, anywhere in the entire universe.

[@natehanson9672]

Could tyranids who are left without a hive mind connection, like after a large synaptic tyranid is killed, be vulnerable to being taken?

[@darthsonic4135]

What did the Zerg ever do to you?!

[@Joker-77763]

So what I'm hearing is, if the Tyranids fought Xivu Arath, they'd be screwed

[@Kestrel990]

Not scewed, the extent that war with amplify xivu’s power is unclear. But it is suggested in the lore that oryx has reached the maximum power obtainable through sword logic so xivu could become as powerful as oryx is which is still really bad, would not allow her power to climb infinitely

[@Nachocheese7896]

One thing about the Tyranids is that they are capable of adapting to deal even with the forces of Chaos. Assuming that the Taken function similar to Chaos Demons due to the Warp and the Ascendant Plane being similar, it would stand to reason that rank and file Taken would be effectively useless within the Shadow in the Warp that the Tyranids create, and only sending in the strongest taken to fight a Tyranid swarm wouldn't do much to slow down a species that can consume any biomatter from planets, not just the Hive themselves. The Hive would potentially win only with the taken, Oryx, and any Hive God still intact but that is equal to a death sentence as they wouldn't be able to feed their worms which would consume them as compensation.

[@Kestrel990]

Ohh, that is true, if they are incapable of feeding there worms they could still die. If the tyranids were able to kill them almost immediately after they emerged from there thrones then oryx and xivu would starve to death. Savathun would be fine though because she does not have a worm anymore

[@yokgor4675]

The Shadow in the Warp isn’t the lack of psychic powers or souls of the Tyranids. On the contrary, it’s an overwhelmingly powerful amount of it. Every single Tyranid organism is connected by the same intelligence.

[@zxshadowxz]

I think something to keep in mind for the Zerg, is we know they (or at least the Overmind) have assimilated, and made use of the knowledge of their enemies before. So I can absolutely see a world where the Zerg assimilate the concept of Sword Logic like the Vex did with Quria, and since the Swarm were a weapon crafted for the slaughter of the gods in Starcraft, I imagine they’d be quite good at it. There’s even a precedent for this kind of tactic, since that’s how Kerrigan came to be infested. She was supposed to be the Swarm’s answer to the Protoss’s Psionic mastery. I’m not gonna argue if that’s enough for them to win this war, but I do think they have a much better shot at staying in the game than you’d think at first glance.

[@dragonearth5456]

I mean it is cannon that the zerg can read the minds of even powerful protoss like Zeratul to extract information and it happened when Zeratul was killing a Cerebrate (first game major commander).

[@zxshadowxz]

@@dragonearth5456 The Overmind also stole knowledge from the Xel’Naga when the swarm killed them, so there is a precedent.

[@dragonearth5456]

@@zxshadowxz So the Zerg can get info if they win or lose the fight. Combined with their much better mutation skills than the others it should do wonders for combat efficiency.

[@williamdavies1373]

Tyranids do have a presence in the warp - that's what the 'Shadow of the Warp' is, it's not the Tyranids canceling out the warp, it's their overwhelming presence forcing the warp away, it's so powerful when normal guardsman are exposed they're driven to madness and will lose their soul for having them pushed away - and the Hivemind can actually directly harm the realms of Chaos itself by simply approaching them. Realms are made of the conceptual abstract concepts that rule reality and all higher realms - likely the Shadow in the Warp can harm the Oryx throne world perhaps even completely destroy it by simply manifesting in it or approaching it.

[@Kestrel990]

That is if the effect interacted with the ascendant plane, they could potentially harm oryx because unlike the other hive gods manifested his throne world in physical space. The others would be fine because there thrones exist outside of physical space and therefore could not be effected by the shadow

[@kobydouglas9957]

​@@Kestrel990uhhh...the warp...is immaterial or the sea of souls...it's also outside of physical space and that doesn't seem to be an issue for the Tyranids

[@Kestrel990]

@@kobydouglas9957 what I meant was that throne worlds don’t have a correlating position in the real world. They are equally everywhere and nowhere. Oryx did tie his to a physical location and it spills into physical space there, this offered massive advantages in other conflicts but may be his downfall here assuming that the shadow can effect throne worlds.

[@isaiahannexstein5378]

Here is a interesting thought the hive gods still have to feed there worms Oryx: must conquer Xiau warath: must wage war Savathun: must trick or outsmart So if the tyranids ate everyone that could lead to the hive dying anyway

[@drewsmith3566]

I mean it would lead to Xivu Arath maybe but Oryx and Savathun destroyed their worms so this isn’t applicable.

[@T.DreadnoughtArmor]

1.:I dont't know much about the tyranids lore but one thing is, they are not "warpless" the shadow is that their presence is so strong that normal psikers will die if they get close to it, and in the video at 11:49 theres a librarian(a psiker astartes) who is defeated by a tyranid "using the warp", to add more this "floating" tyranids are the one reponsable for "linking" every tyranid to the hive mind using the warp, theres other thing but that covers my point ( i think ) 2.:I liked the video 3.:there may be some wrong words on my comentary

[@T.DreadnoughtArmor]

just to add some info. Psykers are beings (except the T'au if i'm not wrong) that can manipulate the energia of the warp at it's will.

[@naoway336]

Tau can influence the warp it's just more difficult, but they have created a warp entity in the books.

[@T.DreadnoughtArmor]

right, i mistook then with the necrons, do u know what warp entity the t'au created or in which book ?

[@naoway336]

@@T.DreadnoughtArmor I don't recall the book, but the story is about the tau trying to use warp travel, then they get busted by demons but a manifestation of the Greater Good saves them.

[@dragonlord498]

zerg are pretty much the younger but smarter cousins of the nids in that while they are very similar the zerg actually seem to have the greater potential even if not by a huge amount where the nids have more experiance and numbers but are slightly more limited in how they can evolve and what they can assimilate given certain feral nid strains they refuse to reabsorb so im very certain the nids couldn't assimilate the zerg but the zerg could assimilate nids as well as the nids have lost in contests of bioweapon vs bioweapon before weather its manufactured bioweapons or against other super organisms like life forms of catachan where the zerg don't seem to lose in such competitions and their homeworld was pretty much catachan maybe even somewhat deadlier given many of the primal zerg were also intelligent along with just very deadly. so unless the nids and the hive overcome the zerg instantly the zerg will rapidly start assimilating the other factions biology which can do even just by spreading pathogens and infecting them or even just having creep wveorb or fone into physical contact with them that way plus they can also infect machines which could also depending on the specific scenario also give them a edge as well. And they can ressurect individuals as well if they want. and the current god of the zerg is extremely powerful and intelligent more so then the original leader. also i know nothing about destiny so interesting to learn about the hive

[@naoway336]

This vid lowballed the Zerg hard. Zerg end game could wreck these forces. Difference between Nid evolution and Zerg evolution is the speed of it. Can't really take over a Zerg as even the zergling is not a single creature its very cells are creatures with their own intelligence literally hunting themselves to evolve. And yeah end game zerg are tasked with repopulating the whole universe.

[@dragonlord498]

@@naoway336 agreed the main advantage i generally give the nids over the zerg is just number they've eaten a galaxy or two before so they have who knows how much biomass they have and can make larger amounts of troops and bioships with and such and one or two other things that would be more a initial advantages but the zerg would rapidly equal or surpass it or at least form just a counter measure faster then the nids can keep up especially when the zerg tap into their genetic library the nids collected over the eons which is the main way the nids adapt it seems heavily reliant on what they've absorbed where zerg do that but also evolve on their own.

[@naoway336]

@@dragonlord498 We don't have concrete proof the nids have eaten other galaxies, just speculation lore wise, but I'm down with giving them that in a comparison. But zerg have biogenerativekenesis We literally see Kerrigan creating life from her palm who then turns into one of the most powerful brood queens in the lore. I just have a hard time seeing how the nids could stand up the Kerrigan when she goes full goku.

[@dragonlord498]

@@naoway336 their is also some evidence the nids arrived on catachan before and lost given at least one of the creatures their seems like its descended from feral nids and if thats the case i suspect would be a similar result if they invaded zerus

[@michaeldority9282]

Man my whole life, bungie.. has absolutely nailed the music and the feels u get from it 🙌

[@MysteriousPotatoe]

9:12 🥷🐍

[@jonathanmumbi8618]

I would've like to see the Flood in this.

[@Kestrel990]

Hive. The advantage that sword logic gives them is to much, unless the tyranids are massively dominant on the battlefield the hive will only grow stronger as there members gain strength through killing. And the tyranids can never enter a throne world so that is a instant win condition for the hive

[@michaeldority9282]

So now that we have killed the witness, how do they still have powers?

[@zxshadowxz]

The Hive? They draw power from the Darkness itself, while the Witness set up the circumstances for the Krill to become The Hive, they were never a necessity for their powers.

[@MarcusRivers-uw2xq]

I love the theme for oryx

[@LostEnding_]

To be honest the hive would only need the 4 hive gods, xivu would be the greatest threat as the act of war alone would empower her and if they kill any powerful being they’d become exponentially more powerful

[@rexwer8723]

Hive EZ. If we count Oryx as alive he will just take them all. And taken can't die

[@naoway336]

Kerrigan could solo the hive and the taken.

[@rexwer8723]

@@naoway336 After she killed Amon maybe but still probably not

[@naoway336]

@@rexwer8723 I don't think Oryx is on par with the creator of the Universe threat that Amon was

[@rexwer8723]

@@naoway336 Mmm Amon was trapped the whole story and could only manipulate zerg, protos and terrans to create him a body. Oryx also takes spicies to create minions. His goal is just different from world annihilation, he wants to fight everything in the world to prove he is a perfect being or die and empower perfect being. It's just that in Destiny many has godly powers, so bar is pretty high.

[@naoway336]

@@rexwer8723 Amon didn't just take minions he literally created them Protoss were not meant to exist, Amon brought them into the universe to supplant humanity becoming the perfect beings.

[@AwwLucky]

While I do agree that the Zerg Swarm would likely be the first to go, the Overmind physically cannot be killed without the use of a Dark Templar, something that obviously neither other side in this war has. The Overmind and its Cerebrates endlessly regenerate without the power of the Void that the Dark Templars channel, so the Zerg Swarm quite literally cannot ever lose its leader in this scenario. I do not think that the Overmind is something that can be Taken, though, just because of the fact that the Overmind was made to have the most overbearing willpower that is physically and psychically possible when the Zerg were uplifted by Amon. However, if the Zerg Swarm were instead led by Kerrigan (either Queen of Blades or Primal Kerrigan from SC2,) I think that Oryx could simply just take her and have the **entire** Swarm at his beck and call, she is still incredibly psychically powerful, but she does not have that same overbearing willpower that the Overmind does, not to mention the fact that the entire Swarm is reliant on one point of failure under Kerrigan, whereas the Overmind has its Cerebrates to keep control over vast distances.

[@jamespaguip5913]

Scrin from command and conquer are biomechanical bugs kinda like tyranids but scrin can shoot lasers.

[@ryansorenson8198]

The zerg win First the tyranids their ships rely on the shadow of the warp make it so no other ships can cut them of. However the zerg would be immune to this effect because the shadow doesn't work on similarly sized minds so the hive ship would usually be destroyed in battles The destruction of the hive ship is also devastating to the tyranids because without the norn queen inside they can't replace troops or send information it's a big week spot that the zerg are perfect for destroying Second the hive The zerg have the ability adapt extremely well so once they consume a few of the worms they should be able to get in and out of the throne worlds in addition they hilariously out number the hive The hive only has one guy making ships where as the zerg can make leviathans on every world it will eventually get to the point where the hive just doesn't have the ships to take planets

[@rasoser1249]

I think this one goes to the Hive. Not only can you not reliably kill Ortx, Savathun or Xivu Arath, Xivu actually gets stronger with each and every Conflict that happens in I think even the entire Universe. That paired that virtually any being can create a Throne World as long as it's powerful enough and follows the Sword Logic, I think they may either outright win/ starve them to death, or at least make it a stalemate

[@shawnhanchett8105]

I think that the zerg would have a good chance do to the fact that as you said, they would be scattered and seen as a weak. There by not worthy of There attention compared to the threat of the other. That would give the zerg the time they need to get there DNA and adapt to the 2 more powerful enemy's. After seeing how powerful they are, the zerg may be divided but not stupid. They would wait for the best time to get rid of them both at the same time. After all the other two would be too busy with each other to notice, or have time to get rid of the zerg that are hiding in wait.

[@jamespaguip5913]

Zebesian from Metroid are very powerful threat in the Metroid series.

[@frapapeto]

I mean the worm gods are crazy strong and they are technically hive I think

[@jamespaguip5913]

@Buster Mctunder space marine vs zebesian from Metroid would be cool also the scrin from command and conquer are very strong maybe.

[@CornOfTheBreads]

I think what a lot of people are missing about the Tyranids compared to the Vex when it comes to being able to be Taken by Oryx is the vex arnt telepathic. The Vex are a hive mind in the sense they order themselves under a single sub mind to carry out a goal and have no personal wills of their own. If a tyranid is in Synapse range of one another they are a single mind and soul that expands across multiple galaxies. Hell you could probably take a Tyranid but they probably would just go back under hive control once in synapse range because Taken only follow who ever has the strongest will power at the time who is telling them what to do.

[@GredTheAceAllayVods]

I’d say that once the tyrranids have eaten everything in the galaxy, they’ll move on, ignoring the remaining beings who aren’t biological

[@burntninja450]

How are you not going to add the food in this video? As an unstoppable eldritch horror sci-fi hive mind with magic powers, takes the cake, and then it takes everyone else's cakes, and then it eats everyone else.

[@levismith8444]

The more of a virus

[@LegatusLucius2]

Every time it's Warhammer badass versus insert IP badass it always ends in this battle will be awesome but nobody wins😂

[@ziegfeld4131]

Why not use the flood as well the strongest of them all

[@raistlarn]

The tyranids will eventually win. Whenever they hit a roadblock they just evolve a way around it like how Hive Fleet Kronos was created to stop the warp rifts and chaos shenanigans. Also there was one slight mistake you made with the lore. There is no calling out when a tyranid hive fleet enters a system. Their shadow in the warp completely smothers out any form of warp communication while also making it nearly impossible to do any warp travel safely. They enter a system eat the biomass and move on while possibly leaving some dormant Genestealers to infect the people that come to investigate why the system went silent.

[@Kestrel990]

The problem is that destiny paracasality is not something that you can evolve, it can only be gained by aquiring it from something that already has it. Assuming they the tyranids do not acquire paracasality the best outcome they can hope for is a stalemate where they eradicate the hives presence from the physical world and deal with the occasional ascendant hive leaving there throne worlds

[@trigz8626]

The joke here, is that Zerg can do most of what Tyranid do but faster. They will rock paper scissors the Nids so hard that they will always be a few evolution back. Zerg evolve instantly on the battlefield, that evolution is spread instantly across their entire swarm in the galaxy. Their evolution is not reactive like Nids, its directed and engineered by intelligent beings in order to be near perfect. Zerg take over planet in a matter of hours, they fill it with their own biomass in order to create hive world. Purity of Essence allow the Zerg to out evolve everything, its a gift from the gods themselves. Only a Zerg can steal the essence of another Zerg. Source? Play the game, go to the wiki and read.

[@PolarKnight404]

Tyranids definitely can manipulate and use the warp. It’s more accurate to say that the tyranids have just one huge soul, they don’t attract attention in the warp because it would be like me trying to eat an a living elephant. Not to mention the tyranids can completely drown out the warp with their shadow, cutting off any travel or communication, making any psyker lose their mind if they try anything “Should a psyker attempt to use their otherworldly abilities, the cerebral cacophony worsens even further; the psychic sound of a billion alien thoughts scratch at their mind, and unless they are particularly strong-willed they will be pitched into an insanity where they will repeatedly utter phrases in a tongue too alien to properly pronounce.” It even effects daemons to some effects The full psychic might of the hive mind makes it as overpowered as GW wants it to be.

[@theugbooklabyrinth7047]

ZERG RULES!!!!

[@durk5331]

It's a good thing that the Zerg now have a Deity of their own isn't it... one who since she did come to visit Raynor at the end of SC2, has shown the ability to walk the Material like the Emperor of Humanity... and the Zerg shouldn't just enter this from their own universe 27-37k years in the past... No, if you Really want them at their strongest give them that 27-37k years to Grow led on by descendants/successors of Dahaka, Zegara, and Stukov... a Race with three different divisions Each having Grown in their Own Right... the Primals through Natural Essence-based Evolution, the Swarm through Guided Genetic Evolution by the likely biologically immortal Abathur, and the Infested through Technological Advancement... All under the Watchful Eye of Kerrigan, the God-Queen of the Zerg at the Pinnacle of All Three Factions (The True Queen of the Swarm as the Queen of Blades, the Pinnacle of Primal Evolution after her Ascension on Zerus, and the Goddess of the Infested representing the Perfect Merging of Human and Zerg)... You give them that 27-37k years under Kerrigan and they'll be More than a Match for the Tyranids >.>

[@jasonsoto5273]

Well since ya asked you definitely counted out the Zerg from this race far too early! From this video it feels like the Zerg and their myriad of strengths (primarily their incomparable speed of evolution) was completely glossed over. Heck, how you were describing them in their own segment was astoundingly brief, surface level, and sounded more like a word salad than a description, which was really disheartening. Even if you concluded they would lose I would have really liked to hear about how they matched up against other two races, especially since I have never heard of the Krill!

[@Lyceaos]

you talk about the taken king, but you should have gone into the same detail of savathun and her sister, savathun is so intelegent and cunning she predicted the future with 100% accuracy years after her death, and her sister sivu arath, litterally feeds on battle and conflect of all kinds only getting stronger, the more the fighting in the universe the more she feeds and stronger she gets. iot took some reality warping and fucking insanity inverting her own powers with a god of vengence itself to kill her

[@Lyceaos]

a follow-up, you forget, the vex are also hive minds but individual vex can be taken, cut off from the hive mind and turned ito taken, so whats to say the same cant be done to tyranids?

[@gambitomega1374]

hive, bc the tyranids wouldn't have any counter for the hive gods coming back to life and both xivu and oryx could take all of the zerg and enhance them with darkness.

[@josephpotteiger6747]

While I agree that Zerg would die first it really boils down to exactly how the Shadow in the warp interacts with the throne worlds because if it works similar to The Warp they're not going to be able to manifest while inside the shadow in the warp and zoanthropes do stupid crap all the time they could probably Force a way in through brute psychic force.

[@naoway336]

Zerg got so low balled here it's crazy. Endgame Zerg basically have the job of regrowing all life in the universe and have the powers to back it up.

[@Kestrel990]

Aside from oryx’s throne world the shadow would not have any sort of chances of interacting. Because throne worlds do not have a physical location. Aside from oryx’s who turned his inside out. Though the shadow may not interact with this either as his dreadnoght that contains his throne is noted for having paracasal defenses that the other hive gods could not penetrate

[@theharbinger00]

Zerg would take out the tyranids. Their evolution is almost instantaneous while tyranids take weeks on end to evolve. It would be the hive against zerg

[@Kemleoegai]

The fallen from d2 are insects?

[@noirlight9489]

You re hardly underestimate zerg

[@arioaheran6057]

But if im not wrong, the undying solders of savathon could die if something crush thier souls, so i guess tyranids could find this out too, and the other point is, the stupid tyranids has really highly psychic power that basically like magic, so in that can why not they use this typ of things and yea they can jump up the warp is ways of shadow in the warp, is it not a way to go an other location ?, my mean even close to the throne worlds

[@marlonelias]

I’ll choose the ZERG!.!.

[@NukedShadow]

I mean oryx was the clear winner from the beginning. But im like 100% sure he could take a tyranid. I mean my mans takes the vex and thayre also a hivemind PLUS theyre microscopic sperm things (i mean the white fluid is LITERALLY called vex milk sooo) yeah pretty sure oryx can yoink em if he wants

[@kgunslinger]

So you gave it to 40k because of lack of information but dunked on the Zerg the whole time because there hive mind dies as part of the game something that took every single faction in that whole sector to do and he was trying to die but I guess you didn’t know that. That problem was fixed after that besides even after the over mind died in game his commanders were still fighting tho now they were no able to actually die for good and not just to dark tempers I don’t know a lot about 40k but I do for sc and destiny no way the the zerg loses to hive

[@Cybercoin]

Tyranids. As much as I love the Hive in this one. Tyranids are essentially unlimited. Especially if you look at the fact that they are warming the Milky Way...from multiple angles. And the Hive Gods become stronger when they are being tithed to by the ones below them. So that is one way of weakening them if those below them are killed. Xivu Arath, who you didn't mention would be the one that could most likely win in the end. As she feeds of War kind of like Khorne does. Anyway, Lucent Hive DO leave behind a body when killed. All Lightbearers do unless vaporized.

[@Kestrel990]

Well the tyranids can never win because they can never enter throne worlds. And also while xivu may gain strength from war she is not as powerful as the other siblings as they ascended beyond the confines of the original bargain. But xivu has not

[@damonsipma9757]

The only way the zerg to win is to have xelnaga kerrigan but you went with the overmind so no the zerg definitely lost this fight

[@NathanBonline]

the flood wins

[@jamespaguip5913]

Hive

[@warlockfangirl]

Tyranids have a serious chance against the Hive. In D2, with Oryx dead, we've learned that all one needs to control the Taken is a sufficient will to overpower them. Again, this is only now that he's dead, but I can't help but imagine what would happen if the Tyranids' hive mind was a more powerful will than Oryx alone. I think the Tyranids could wrestle control over the Taken right out from under Oryx. I don't think they could learn to take, nor would they need to, but without the Taken, Oryx is down an army.

[@drewsmith3566]

Yeah you might be forgetting the prerequisite of needing to have the power to control darkness(ie. Savathun losing her control over the taken when she became a lightbearer) which the Tyranids don’t have soooo yeah.

[@Kestrel990]

They would need a connection to the darkness first, but what you should be asking is why couldn’t they introduce worms into there forms. The sacrifice for doing is that they need to kill which they are already doing. They would gain access to magic and throne worlds. And given how fast they reproduce they could farm themselves to god status super fast by killing off there own members

[@someoneold5426]

Ok a couple things… first, the nids do have a presence in the warp… it’s so bloody overwhelming it casts a shadow. Xoanthrops are floating warp artillery units. Insanely powerful psyker units. Second, the nids adapt to what works and what doesn’t. For example, if they are fighting and meeting overwhelming lasgun fire the hive mind will adapt their carapace to the act as a heat sink. Or if the resistance is in the form of bolters the carapace will become thicker and denser making the bolts far less likely to do more than chip away at their armour… tyranids are damned scary. The hive? Eh.

[@Kestrel990]

The hive are scary, the fact remains that because they don’t have destiny magic they can never defeat the hive. The second thing is that the hive gain power though winning in contests (mostly killing) and wile there hives gods have became almost as strong as it is possible to be through this method. Their lesser troops will have access to a pretty much limitless amount of foes to kill and therefor will rapidly assend in strength.

[@someoneold5426]

Hummm. It’s something that’s been floating around for a while so let me ask you a couple questions and let me know if you think the hive would really have a chance. First a little pushing of the lore, the catachan devil is apparently a remnant of a previous fleet before the great crusade. (Side note, this implies that a nid hive was also the victim of that hell hole) and the devil is one of the toughest things on catachan. Deamons don’t even last on that world… second, the megarachnids, same as the devil and those tough bastards where absolutely destroying the astartes legions. Lastly the sheer size of a mid hive ship. I’m not sure how big the hive ones are but I’m hesitant to compare it the the vast size of imperial ships… and a nid ship swallowed a cruiser whole…(I think it was a cruiser) and those are aren’t small … basically at some point the nids will become unbeatable to the hive… and if you assume the powerful psykers fueled and focused by an overwhelming mind couldn’t crack open a simple dimensional barrier then I think you’re in for some disappointment…

[@Kestrel990]

@@someoneold5426 the hive have converted moons into ships, we do not know know how big those moons were. But oryx’s dreadnoght is about as large as earths moon. I do not know how that compares to 40k ships as I only really know destiny lore. As to them opening a gateway to the hive throne worlds. It really depends on if the different magic systems interact. Even if they can enter the hive throne worlds they would likely be outmatched there because the hive gods can change reality however they like in there for non-paracasal beings. But again it comes down to if the magic systems interact

[@someoneold5426]

Yeah, I know far more about 40k than most other franchises. Love that shit. But from what you just said… the largest imperial ship is the phalanx, it’s massive. It’s not moon sized though… it’s rare indeed for 40k ships to be outsized. So I don’t believe orix’s ship would be eaten… honestly I think it would be a flat out statement… in reality the nids would have the advantage, however they wouldn’t be able to finish the job due to being toyed with in the … throne world was it?

[@Kestrel990]

@@someoneold5426 yeah, I think that the nids have the advantage through shear amount and the rate they reproduce. The hive expeshily the hive gods could pretty much obliterate them on the local scale but would eventually be overwhelmed. Though they would keep coming back pretty much at full strength. The problem with comparing worlds with destiny is the power everything is based around is kinda unbeatable without having the power yourself even when you are outmatched in pretty much every way

[@elyaszabri5007]

you forgot the shadow of the warp that can block presence of the warp and can also block the worm presence too and also gene stealer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@Hmmmmm667]

Xivu simple

[@Elthenar]

The Terminids don't measure up to the Tyranids or Zerg. Both of those, especially the Tyranids, have a powerful strategic mind running the show. They both also have space faring versions of themselves that are equal to the most powerful of spaceborn warships. Either of those last two races would have eaten the Terminds, Super Earth and the Automatons without hardly noticing they had been in a fight. Of the two, the Tyranids are much more powerful. The Zerg are very similar, since they were clearly based on the Nids. However, the Nids vastly outstrip the Zerg in scale and purpose. The Zerg occupy and infect a world. The Tyranids eat it and move on. The Tyranids have at least one order of magnitude greater numbers and the Tyranid Hive Mind has no analogue in the Zerg. For as powerful as Kerrigan was, she would have struggled with a single Tyranid Hive Tyrant. A Tyrant could match her with blades and they have a psychic might that would probably be close to that of Kerrigan.

[@eldesconocido669]

Google Traslator A Tyrant only controls the Tyranids on a world. Kerrigan could control each and every Zerg, giving orders to each colony and hive. Regarding what you say about the Zerg staying to colonize, yes, they do, in order to have more breeding grounds and to be able to produce more armies and they don't need to disband their own troops or even have assured victory in order to start consuming worlds, the Zerg consume the world at the same time as they fight for it, compared to the Tyranids who need the veil in the warp to avoid communications outside the planet or the arrival of reinforcements when they disband their troops in order to recover biomass. In this area, the Tyranids are infinitely less effective than the Zerg, not to mention their lack of hyperluminal travel capacity, needing years to reach planets and other solar systems, while the Zerg only need hours or days for the same.

[@Elthenar]

@@eldesconocido669 Strictly speaking, a Tyrant doesn't control any of the nids. The Tyrant is a synapse creature, meaning that the Hive Mind can exert control over the Tyrant and any Nids near it. The Tyrant doesn't really have free will, it is directly controlled by the Hive Mind. That's why I said the Tyranids have no analogue. The Hive Mind controls all known nids, possibly in multiple galaxies. It is a psychic presence more like a god than just a powerful pychic like Kerrigan. Even the Xel-Naga don't measure up to the Hive Mind.

[@user-jt3ms4pv4w]

I think people keep forgetting that if the ascendant plane acts like the warp, then the tyranid's shadow in the warp passive ability would banish the ascendant plane, therefore banishing the hive throne worlds and making the hive gods essentially mortal and thus killable

[@Paladin_Lawbro]

Reality check, hive wins. Taking every faction at their peak oryx has a reality bending dragon known as an ahamkara, practically innumerable number to match the nids, and the capability to enhance themselves through the sword logic

[@GoNo117]

Ew bugs