40k Isn't THAT Overpowered

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Is it OP? Yeah, of course. But it isn't THAT OP.
0:00 - Intro
1:17 - Brilliant Sponsorship
2:56 - Forewarning
3:08 - Star Wars
4:14 - Dead Space
5:30 - BattleTech
7:44 - Marvel and DC
9:21 - Invincible
11:28 - Dragon Ball
15:16 - Stellaris
17:18 - Xeelee Sequence
23:38 - Misc.
24:56 - Conclusion
26:06 - Did I Mention Fortnite
Music:
Kevin Macleod - Sneaky Snitch
FTL: Faster Than Light - Mantis (Explore), Zoltan (Explore), Rockmen (Explore), Engi (Explore), MilkyWay (Explore), Colonial (Explore), Space Cruise

[@pancreasnowork9939]

Try Brillaint out now using brilliant.org/PancreasNoWork/ for a full 30 days free trial! The first 200 users will get 20% off their annual plan!

[@thejuiceking2219]

i will say, 40k features my favourite example of weaponising time travel a dark age of technology weapon that would send the target back a few nanoseconds into the past, where the two basically telefrag one another, that's fricking cool also, if i remember right Stephen Baxter actually did work on Warhammer 40k a bit. shame he didn't stick around, would be interesting to see what he would've done with the setting

[@thejuiceking2219]

also, Red Dwarf technology i know it's a sitcom and it's not at all serious, but you actually look at the tech there and it's genuinely insane

[@Danielzabojca]

Nice, going to use that! Also, why no HTTPS?!

[@thejuiceking2219]

@@Danielzabojca what's that?

[@theavatarofinsanity]

For some reason, I feel compelled to mention the cthulhu mythos and the "Character" Azathoth. Who by himself could quite literally destroy the entire setting of 40k by simply waking up from his afternoon nap.

[@Dogmelter42]

40k is like the Texas of sci-fi/fantasy. Everything is just bigger. Not necessarily more powerful, but certainly bigger.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Hm I don't really know any universe that could deal with chaos even if it had more powerful individuals. 40k is not only op because of some godlike powers someone has, but also mental weakness being able to just kill/corrupt you so easily in that setting. Chaos gods would have a field day with super heroes.

[@jgblkshot8375]

​@@mcmarkmarkson7115 here we fucking go again

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

​@@mcmarkmarkson7115 hahahhahahaha!!!! No.

[@Campaigner82]

You mean all the fat people? 😆

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

@@jgblkshot8375 nothing is incorruptible is the point of 40k!

[@Hammer1987]

I remember a long, long time ago on a sci-fi forum called Spacebattles someone once asked "How many hobbits are needed to kill a space marine?" After some discussion an answer was agreed upon: "One, at sufficient velocity." Ahh, good times.

[@OldTownCrab]

How many Relativistic Kill Vehicles could Terra take before it cracked into bits

[@HaloDrwhoSG1SGASGU]

It's weirdly comforting hearing this out in the wild. "One at sufficient velocity" Coincidentally, I'm about 90% certain this creator is familiar with SB, as his opinions line up with general consensus (from what I recall) and the fact he knows about the goddamn *Xeelee Sequence*

[@HaloDrwhoSG1SGASGU]

​​​@@OldTownCrabOne, at sufficient velocity.

[@OldTownCrab]

@@HaloDrwhoSG1SGASGU In this case, one of sufficient mass at sufficient Velocity (99.99999999% c)

[@palladin1337]

@@OldTownCrab Nah, there's supposed to be a new god brewing on that planet. You wanna make sure it's dead, you double-tap it.

[@stahlhelmturtle9822]

I always thought that wh40k was kinda funny bc the writers for it desperately want their setting to be huge and overscaled, but they never paid attention in history so they end up with a supposedly hyper devastating gigantic planetary scale battle that has less casualties than the battle of fucking Stalingrad.

[@vonfaustien3957]

Thats not unique to 40k. Master kenobi we have 6 million clones ready to go with another million well on the way. Or in the clone wars cartoon My hand maiden doesnt have power the repiblic must stop its war mongering we simply cant afford to expand the clone army by a few million more troops. And the best part is even in G canon and disney canon the droids number in the trillions to quadrillions.

[@stahlhelmturtle9822]

@@vonfaustien3957 I never said it was unique to 40k lol. I just said it was funny. I feel the same way about star wars since they basically deleted several decades worth of lore and canon in favor of what we now have today.

[@papapalps2415]

@@vonfaustien3957 "And the best part is even in G Canon and Disney canon the droids number in the trillions to quadrillions..." If you wanted to just purely go based off of G-Canon (ala the movies and novelizations and such) then it would be quintillions. And I'm decently sure that is also the case in the new canon too, and it explictly was confirmed in the old canon.

[@emojothejojo]

That's possible but extremely very unlikely

[@KT-pv3kl]

a writer cant write a character more intelligent than himself and neither can a writer write a story that is more educated than himself. sadly many writers arent the smartest or most educated people around and one of the first victims of this lack of intellect is scaling. humans in general are VERY bad at extrapolating exponential correlations and any number with more than 6 zeroes could as well be the same.

[@squidlump]

My personal favorite character who can “solo” 40k is definitely Kirby since he’s the perfect philosophical opponent to the 40k setting. He’s an uncurroptable being of pure positivity and goodness possessed of limitless power and adaptability and a strong enough sense of justice to actually accomplish stuff. He’s like the positive interpretations of the four chaos gods made manifest and can conceivably begin the process of uncorrupting the warp by hyper speeding around and doing good. It’s hilarious and would pretty much be what Kirby already does in his own series.

[@silentshadow9983]

Just imagining the reaction the different factions would have had rolling on the ground. And that’s not mentioning how Kirby isn’t even 3 in. Tall. (Could be remembering wrong don’t quote me)

[@squidlump]

@@silentshadow9983 it was in an interview for dreamland 3, a game where Kirby is shown to be about half or a third of Samus aran’s height. It was also repeated in a trophy description in super smash bros melee. So technically that’s the best we have on a canon stated height but most depictions hover between 2-3 feet with some dips into 1 foot tall.

[@NaokiKurogra]

@@squidlump Mmmm, his height changes over the series a lot. Like in 64, where Shiver Star is supposed to be Earth, and he's roughly 6 in. tall when scaling him compared to some of the stuff around him.

[@MPHJackson7]

I belive there were some people on TV Tropes who speculated that the Tyranids are running away from Kirby.

[@megamente7849]

Disagree, gods like the Big E can take kirby

[@TheUndeadslayer221]

Honestly, the only Chaos faction that can fight Omniman and win is Nurgle; In Canon, Omniman's entire race is vulnerable to a plague and Nurgle does love his plagues

[@0ghma_]

Papa Nurgle would give automatic Princehood to whichever mortal could replicate and improve the Scourge virus.

[@georgekerscher5355]

Slaanesh, specifically Emperor's Children with Noise Marines, would have a potential advantage too; assuming they could figure out *which* frequency incapacitates Viltrumites, that would give a tool for them to use. Whether Slaanesh's forces would be able to capitalize off of this weakness with weapons that can pierce, cast a spell that could kill them or corrupt them, or kill a viltrumite remains to be seen

[@consolescrub4031]

Hmm. I feel like Tzeentch could theoretically do it but there would be a lot of rituals which fail to significantly impede the Viltrumite as they don't particularly care about things like being aged a couple of thousand years before they remove the face of the offending sorcerer. I think Magnus started unravelling Vulkan's molecular structure in one of the books and was only stopped because he was casting in warhammer range so assuming something like that can be done from a couple of solar systems away, it might be an option. We know from a certain storyline that nearly pure Viltrumites can be taken out by being thrown into alternate dimensions so that one move Ahriman did to the Ynnari where he dumped them in the warp would probably buy you a very long time at least. I don't think Khorne could do it as planet destruction is already something Viltrumites have done and while they have a vulnerability to extreme heat, I don't think any daemons we've seen in setting produce heat of a similar level to the sustained heat from a sun.

[@brenttebaronda4537]

@@georgekerscher5355 good counter but it doesn’t do much to literally speed blitzing the noise marines before they could strum a beat off their Metallica guitars. Plus if that doesn’t work just break the planet lol.

[@georgekerscher5355]

@brenttebaronda4537 You may not even need noise marines once the frequency is found, at least to capitalize off of utilizing the frequency to disorient Viltrumites to even the odds/use as set up to kill one if not ideally multiple of them. Remember, they're fast but not nearly as fast as Superman The Viltrumites aren't gonna want to destroy planets if they're still usable though, so it's not as if they're going to destroy a planet each and every time they find EC/Slanneshi corruption. They're an empire first and foremost

[@Reznore587]

All I’m saying is that guilliman couldn’t stand a chance against the sexual tyrannosaurus

[@s.k4713]

Well tbf he’s got a mini gun. And a brilliant moustache.

[@joaogabrielsilvadarosa9734]

... The... what?

[@scooberscat1357]

Don Frye?

[@indrickboreale7381]

@@joaogabrielsilvadarosa9734 [Short man starts shooting with Grog Noozle and Unkempt Harold]

[@reaperaf9511]

​@@joaogabrielsilvadarosa9734 blaine from predator 1. The guy with the minigun. Played by jesse ventura. Says a line involving the words "goddamn sexual Tyrannosaurus" in the very beginning on the helicopter ride into the mission zone.

[@snipersougo13]

40k isn't that overpowered compared with itself Every faction is a shell of there former self.

[@tigersebel]

Except the tyranids and the tau i guess

[@snipersougo13]

@@tigersebel true and if they came even close to the others height they would absolutely dominate

[@gampie13]

@@snipersougo13 yes and no, the 40k universe has a weird balancing force written in to it in how krorks/orcs work like a living immune system for things within it's own universe. If the tyranids actually got big enough, the orcs would start becoming krorks again, but then again, krorks are not that scary, seeing as they lost to necrons during the war in heaven

[@snipersougo13]

@@gampie13 not that scary? the Necrons where extremely strong during the WIH and had the full power C'tan on their side

[@cookiecraze1310]

Thing is, if you compare any settings at their "peak", HALO wins pretty much every time since the precursors weren't just chaos god level, they were capital G God level, and there was an entire civilisation of them.

[@bronybro1616]

Doctor Who, nuff said. Forget about Time lords and Daleks, some random UNAMED human empire wiped out an entire GALAXY just to try and fail to wipe out the cybermen.

[@spencerc4252]

who could likely with time adapt to make even the nekron tech meaningless in terms of threat. honestly, nightmare in silver is probably my favorite showing for the cybermen at least in terms of like "oh ... so this is what happens if we let them take root"

[@firetarrasque4667]

Go read some Faction Paradox shit, it’s beautiful stupid nonsense bullshit. The Time Lords fight a war against an enemy who may or may not be Dracula, Mammoths, Tardigrades, or the authors writing the stories. We had people regenerating into intelligent timelines, there’s a book about every alternate universe where Rome never fell went to war with every alternate universe where the Nazis won, every single human being to ever live comes back to life and lives together in one really big fuckoff city that used to be one of the Doctor’s companions - It’s fucking awful, and I love it.

[@sinkabutitsyoutube409]

You forgot warhammer 40k’s secret weapon. Ungodly amounts of plot armour for named characters and helmetless space marines.

[@grumpycat6429]

That helmetless part hits hard. I always knew deep down something was as off about that. Like bro….your forehead…. Bullets: 🗿where

[@sayerglasgow115]

Magnets Calendar beats up Vegeta somehow, experts remain baffled.

[@sernoddicusthegallant6986]

Xelee may act gangster with their multiversal scale reality defying weapons, but just wait till an ultramarine without a helmet written by matt ward shows up.

[@henrykkeszenowicz4664]

Star Wars has those pesky smugglers and pirates with no armor and no helmets who wipe the floor with professional troops. Pretty sure that Imperial Guardsmen and some Space Marines would miss them as badly as the Stormtroopers due to similar amounts of plot armor

[@valletas]

wonder woman can literally make plot armor Im not joking or making this up she makes one to fight the batman who laughs

[@2Potates]

Turning half of a population into food and selling it back to the other half is something Davros did in the old Doctor Who series.

[@janehrahan5116]

The daleks killed a race of immortal god killers, winning so hard even the doctor could only bring it to a tie. Even if they were nice and played conventionally high time war daleks have more population than all of 40k combined.

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

@@janehrahan5116 Not to mention the existence of the Reality Bomb. They almost CANONICALLY killed 40K (and all other franchises), and had to be stopped by local protagonists.

[@camcrock347]

@@ananonymousnerd.2179 Source? Haven't heard of this before and would love to know more.

[@manofconstantgold]

@@camcrock347 Long story short, in the episodes “Stolen Earth” and “Journey’s End” The Doctor and several other characters have to stop Davros and the Daleks from detonating a reality bomb which would completely obliterate all matter in every universe and reality which was not Dalek in origin, even going across timelines and alternate realities. Needless to say, the activation of this superweapon was indeed stopped.

[@cataclysmusultimus]

@@janehrahan5116 And the daleks and davros don’t even (or just barely) reach top 10 most powerful species and creatures in the dr omniverse

[@Ded-Nside3825]

The vision of a warlock readying a psychic attack, only for a Viltrumite to casually reappear behind them and rip their spine out mid-sentence sent me

[@IchHassePasswoerter]

Lucius would be my counter-argument. Viltrumites would be nothing but fodder to him, precisely because they'd kill him.

[@augustuslunasol10thapostle]

@@IchHassePasswoerter okay but if we take it seriously they would be mad that lucious was so easy to kill they would take no pride in it hed have to beg slaneesh for another freebie revive

[@RunningWithRoses]

one of the main issues nobody really considers about 40k is, ironically, logistics, and speed. In almost every other match up, 40k is crawling while everyone else is sprinting. it can take anywhere between 1-6 months, due to warp, just to travel from Ultramar to Earth. It takes most snubfighters with hyperdrives in star wars a mere 6 hours to go from coruscant to the corporate sector. Communication also takes a long time in 40k, whereas in most systems like star wars its damn near instantaneous. This means that star wars factions, and other space factions with similarly fast FTL speeds, could jump into a 40k system, overwhelm its defenses (which considering in old canon [the most fun canon] star destroyer fleets could comprise as many as 500 capital ships), glass the surface, and repeat this probably 10 times before the Imperium would even be aware its happening, much less muster a response. Not to say that star wars would ultimately win, but it wouldn't be as one sided as everyone thinks, especially considering the death star had a hyperdrive on it. Star wars fleet wants to take out a fleet? well they can mass a huge portion of their ships, annihilate the fleet, and then have a british style tea break and disperse before the call for reinforcements from the imperials even reaches the next poor, stress-ridden psyker listening for disturbances in the warp now I do acknowledge that star wars would get bodied heavier by other factions, specifically the necrons, but I was just using that as an example.

[@MarkLeiderman]

We know a few things about the distances in star wars and distances in WH40k, and the time factor is only there because Milky Way in it's entirety, as is used in 40k, is bigger, and distances are way, way longer. We also know that FTL of starwars, the hyperdrive is not instantaneous. A couple parsecs is a few hours of hyperspace flight, but so this is in 40k. You don't even warp jump for that kind of distance unless it's urgent. Also, there is no indication that these are different FTL technologies. Warp drive and hyperdrive are pretty much exactly the same. However, the 40k's version of the plane through which FTL travel occurs, is infested by powers of chaos. Also, Imperial Star Destroyer's fold like paper and have shield generators on the exterior, in what universe would a fleet of these withstand a barrage from Glory of Macragge or Phallanx, of the named ones... Let alone Death Guard ships like Terminus Est... Bro, the biggest and meanest battlestation in Star Wars history was boomed by a dipshit farmer and an astromech in an old X-Wing with a couple of guided projectiles, what are you even saying?

[@RunningWithRoses]

@@MarkLeiderman lmao what? bruh, star wars galaxy is only like, 20% smaller than the milky way. and no, dude, both in old and new canon you can travel literally halfway, from galactic 0 to outrim, in around 6 hours with a .6 or better hyperdrive.

[@user-xw5cp4mo9p]

They would still need to get the stuff to do that stuff which would take a while

[@RunningWithRoses]

@@user-xw5cp4mo9p yeah but my point was more just an example of how its not so cut and dry as SOME people, like mark above, thinks. obviously it gets more complicated the more you think about it

[@Noorthia]

@@MarkLeiderman if you dont warp a "couple parsecs" you WILL have to fly for actual years.

[@Imsleepeebruh]

"Don't forget Zen-Oh who could just decide 40k has lost universe existing privileges" Dude i fuckin love this guys comedic talent

[@dodojesus4529]

Or buu, fat buu would just chill on a planet and turn a country or five into food every couple months. Kid buus invading the warp to blow it up aswell

[@DCAMM720]

I love that Stellaris was included here. I often think "I'm so powerful in this run that 40K would be jealous."

[@nokkz7307]

Always thinking of 40k when I play

[@JoshuaKevinPerry]

Who here hasn't looked to the stars and thought, I can turn alien life into food and sell it.

[@fiendish9474]

Considering Krork Attack Moons were such a threat to the Imperium, Gigastructures' Stellar Systemcraft must be an extinction weapon

[@sixthcairn]

GalCiv is pretty broken too.

[@tincano-beans2114]

​@fiendish9474 the necron do have an explode sun button level of tech...

[@peterhurst6782]

The Lantern Corps would actually really fit in to 40k. They are basically chaos lords. Seriously, each lantern represents an emotional (or conceptual) spectrum which is embodied with a magical entity that literally cannot be destroyed unless the concept itself leaves reality (most famously Parralax of the Yellow Lantern being fear incarnate). I think the lantern corps in the 40k universe would be accidentally making minor chaos gods... Or at the very least be dominated by a red lantern corps which straight up would love Khorne.

[@jacobsheehan5775]

The rage I mean red lanterns might go after khorne because their thing is revenge and khorne does a lot of revenge worthy stuff

[@YouthRightsRadical]

The Emotional Entities would be akin to Chaos Gods, just embodying all of a particular emotion in the universe rather than in a single galaxy. The various Lantern Corps regularly imprison said entities in batteries like the Necrons do to C'tan shards.

[@valletas]

The black lantern corp would have a field day with 40k Like imagine they having sixtillions of zombies all being able to carry lantern rings

[@YouthRightsRadical]

@@valletas Absolutely. The sheer numbers of dead would be great for the Black Lanterns, but they would also benefit from the numbers of the living. Imagine how many hearts they could claim to charge their Central Battery when attacking a hive world before anyone noticed there was a problem. And then there's the mind games Black Lanterns love so much. Malcador and Horus get to go taunt the Emperor about his many many failures. (Black Lanterns don't bring back the original soul, so Horus' soul being destroyed would not hinder this.) Not to mention taking advantage of their knowledge to know where to hit the Imperium where it would hurt the most. Chaos would be getting its own ass kicking when all the dead Eldar gods Slaanesh ate get to come back for round two. Meanwhile, Fulgrim gets to have an intimiate discussion with Feris Manus plus all the Feris Manus clones he was killing for who knows how long for the sake of his ego. Then they've also got the option of getting, say, the Flayer, the one C'tan that was killed instead of shattered. Plus any Old Ones the Black Lanterns feel like bringing to the party to have a War in Heaven re-enactment. And between the knowledge of how the Necron command protocols worked that an unshattered C'tan would have and any control mechanisms the Old Ones built into the Krorks that were lost with the deaths of the Old Ones, the Black Lanterns likely got themselves a fair bit of additional support staff even outside their unstoppable army of super zombies. And THEN we get to the fact that you don't have to actually be dead to become a Black Lantern. You can be made into a Black Lantern if you have EVER died. Meaning Lucius the Eternal is getting a nice new piece of bling and Necron sure as hell isn't going to feel satisfied for having yoinked him, given what the Black Light even is and what it represents. Plus you've got pretty much everyone who's anyone among the Dark Eldar who now have a new master, given how many of them need to be resurected by the homunculi after they get killed by their rivals, including Vect himself. Also means the Black Lanterns get Vulcan whether he's really dead at this point or not. Oh yes, the Blackest Night in Warhammer would be fun.

[@jahrusalem3658]

@@YouthRightsRadical Jesus Fucking Christ, I forgot how utterly horrifying Black Lanterns are.

[@theduchyofmilanball3157]

Another thing that people rarely bring up about 40k in vs debates is just how *slow* information moves in the setting. Like, y'know how in 40k, it took the imperium 300ish years to learn that a bunch of their planets fell to some new upstart blueberries (the Tau). And thats how the Damocles crusade happened. Thats basically the norm. So any faction with truly ftl communications alone has a notable advantage. We glossed over star wars. But... Hyperspace travel and the Holonet are... fast. Fast enough that there's a non-zero chance of a competently lead faction from that setting being able to attain victory on a strategic level if they pick their battles well enough. Though they'd have to give alot of the bigger threats a wide birth. If not the empire, then possibly the Old Republic or Legends New Republic. Similiarly, Battletech's HPG network represents a massive step up over 40k's communications infrastructure. I dont know how best they could leverage that... maybe Commstar makes a deal with the mechanicus. Extending the HPG network to the Imperium in exchange for them leaving the Inner Sphere alone.

[@19Pyrus70]

The Word of Blake would side with chaos & corrupt the HPG network.

[@pyotrbagration2438]

1. How many hyperspace lanes exist in the 40k galaxy? 2. How many years before they chart them? 3. How does the rank'n'file SW civilian battle Chaos corruption? 40k trumps SW, it has been debated ad nauseam.

[@papapalps2415]

@@pyotrbagration2438 1. None, initially, presumably, seeing how hyperlanes are the equivalent to roads and highways. Of course, in much the same way, hyperdrive does not require hyperlanes to function, nor are they impossible or even particularly difficult to make. And even 'offroading' is still going to be leagues faster than Warp travel. 2. I dunno. Probably less than a decade, especially if they droid spam to brute force the charting process. Amusingly, it doesn't really matter how long it takes. The Empire, or whoever, has literally more or less all the time in the world. It's not as if the Imperium, especially as it is currently, has the capability to do much to the Star Wars galaxy directly, ESPECIALLY if it is a wormhole (aka; chokepoint) situation. They physically do not have the abillity to mount an invasion of a literal entire ither, new galaxy, nevermind one with a peer-level civilization inside, lul. The idea is laughable on the face of it, given how dire the Imperium's situation is. And none of the other factions bar the 'Crons (who have no real reason to do so, or even care) have the abillity, either, at least assuming it's a wormhole (and even if it isn't, only the Orks and 'Nids could do anything, and only the latter could do any real damage). 3. They...presumably don't even need to, lul. The wormhole situation would more or less make the issue moot, and even if the SW galaxy were somehow magically interposed somewhere nearby to the Milky Way, it still isn't going to be as huge of an issue as it for the Imperium for any number of reasons; the utter and total lack of psykers, who are and always have been the main victims and liabilities for Chaos corruption and invasion; the sheer astronomical distance from the Milky Way, the main bastion of Chaos; the fact that, without the pre-history genetic tampering from the Old Ones/whoever, humanity in SW and the various aliens won't be at risk of suddenly developing massive numbers of psykers over time, ala again the IoM; and perhaps most importantly of all, simply because the galactic population in SW should all have the same rough Warp presence as the Tau, making them terribly unappetizing and uninteresting to Chaos. It really doesn't, though, no.

[@theduchyofmilanball3157]

​@@19Pyrus70I mean, its the WoB, they're literally made to be just the absolute worst. Commstar overall was morally dark grey at best. And WoB is just its worst aspects taken to 11. No shit they would side with chaos.

[@pyotrbagration2438]

@@papapalps2415 1. Good luck off-roading without a Geller field. 2. If you dont know dont act as if you know, in 26,000+ years, SW still doesnt have hyperspace lanes in almost 1/2 of their setting, plus their biggest one is the oldest one, meaning it is either extremely difficult to chart ones, or the SW setting has forgotten how to. 3. Only Pariahs dont have a presence in the Warp. Tl;dr , read more lore, dont take what you read on reddit as lore.

[@dinodude6992]

The moment stellaris was brought up, my mind immediately jumped to the blokkats and their appetite of eating galaxies

[@indrickboreale7381]

I wonder what Warhammer 40k shall do against System Craft shooting at them

[@samueltheslime1125]

The Aeternum from Gigastructures would also just be a little silly, they took ALL THREE ascension paths basically. They’re all psionic, genetically engineered and biologically modified to become more perfect than a primarch, and then receive cybernetics so advanced that the Adeptus Mechanicus would shit themselves. Not to mention they have a Birch World, a structure so immense that it’d make the Necrons jealous. Plus they can scramble FTL travel like nothing, isolating themselves for millions of years. I still love opening the Galactic Core and seeing my friends die because of the dozens of planet craft they have.

[@maddlarkin]

The few mentions of Dark Age tech come on a par, a ship whose weapons batteries shoot miniaturised blackholes and targeting that rewinds time to score a hit, sun snuffers, nanites that eat planets as effectively as Tyranids and constructs able to bite through reality converting what they destroy to digital information and leaving holes in reality... 40k may not be that OP, but mid-20k, that's a whole different matter :-)

[@NotNonamelol]

They say the Tyranids are running from something… if that something is the blokkats, the galaxy‘s fucked

[@thisguyoverhere6572]

The Blokkats in lore are building something so massive in a light year radius that it masses about 300 BILLION Milky Way galaxies and is apparently the cosmic phenomenon known as the great attractor with about 1% of the mass in the known universe in it. The Gigastructures mod is something else.

[@crabbowiththestabbo]

My personal explanation is that as soon as Warhammer crosses over into any other universe, it has to deal with the fact that Pyrrhic victories are really bad for long term survivability. Edit: I apologize for using the term “outerversal” I didn’t know it was a thing.

[@thewolfbloodwarrior8788]

That is some great logic. In 40k, the pyrrhic victories are quickly set aside by its own plot armor. But once out of universe, those same pyrrhic victories will quickly become a detriment and then they will be forced to commit ultra heresy. Come up with a new strategy that does not involve throwing meatshields at the problem till it goes away

[@clan741]

@@thewolfbloodwarrior8788thank god they have guilleman and the lion to help reintroduce basic strategies to them.

[@thewolfbloodwarrior8788]

@@clan741 Don't be heretic! The correct term is 'Thank The God Emperor'

[@Nykandros]

The reason 40k is considered so OP is because the STANDARD is much higher than that of other verses. Sure, other verses might have more OP things when you get to their most powerful characters; but 40k is OP on the BASIC level more than any of those verses. Compare an average war in Halo vs that of 40k, and see the sheer difference in extremity & scale; even though Halo has more powerful entities once you start scaling up.

[@Silungar]

@@Nykandros True, 40k's scale is pretty high (as long as the writers get the numbers right and don't have solar system spanning conflicts with less casualties than ww2 again), however one thing that keeps it (and by "it" I mean specifically the Imperium of Man) back, is it's relatively low tech level - especially compared to any other galaxy-sized setting. For example: an Imperial battleship might be almost twice the size of a Starcraft battlecruiser, but the Starcraft ship has a solid 40% of it's mass dedicated to what is essentially a nuke-railgun, while the 40k ship has its cannons manually loaded by slaves...

[@HellishSpoon]

"can emperor beat goku?" i paused for second with a blank expression, looking at nothing "No"

[@liamohman7426]

Yuh uh, warp spaghetti scaling

[@Meme-Weeb-Dweeb]

I see your warp sphaggeti and raise you big ork

[@HammerDownFellas]

@@Meme-Weeb-DweebI raise you even bigger Ork

[@zeehero7280]

Probably. he doesn't have to even fight him to win. Not in a straight physical fight, even when he wasn't a skeleton. But in a mind battle, absolutely.

[@pillarmenn1936]

If we're talking about a terrible father competition, Emps clears without diffculty.

[@IndyRead]

One faction I would LOVE to see compared to 40k would be Supreme Commander. Can just imagine Belisarius Cawl looking at this tiny Titan and thinking "Aww it's so cute wait that's a lot of tanks OMNISSIAH'S BALLSACK IS THAT A BATTLESHIP ON TREADS"

[@mariomario-dy1kc]

Well, as long as you don't pick its spiritual predecessor, Total Annihilation... If you did, the Arm and Core factions wouldn't even notice the 40K factions while attempting to annihilate the other.

[@atomicbuttocks]

everybody gangsta til the cybran battleships starts walkin

[@shzarmai]

I just wish there were more Alien species in Sci-Fi with "Consciousness cloning" tech for uploading artificial minds in Virtual worlds, quantum teleportation tools, 3-D space manipulation tools capable of flattening 3D space into 2D space and disrupting the quantum states of enemy lifeforms' neurons, headgear capable of repelling the beforementioned neuron quantum state disruption, digitally preserving rare life by converting Lifeforms into maths equations, weapons capable of generating gravity wells & creating spatial snares for trapping others, devices capable of stealing info by reading entageled qubits, 'Galactic Supercluster Civilizations', geometric weapons that can emit focused waves of energy to fold & bend the fabric of space to create portals, "Galaxy Group-controlling Species /Galaxy Cluster Civilizations", time-warping devices with the ability to put a confined area of space in stasis that nullifies the superhuman capabilities of everyone inside ot and negates all scifi tech's capabilities inside the field too, etc

[@Deepkeel]

The problem here is that just a Tech 1 UEF Mech Marine is somewhere around 1 and a half or twice the size of an Imperial Knight mech... and has no actual pilot, the arm canons fire rounds that are bigger than the Knight's head... Did I mention that it would not be a stretch to assume the Tech 3 Artillery structures could be retro fitted into planet based anti-capitalship weapons?

[@IndyRead]

And call me a nerd, but I've always wondered what an expansion of the Supcom games into space combat would look like. All sorts of new and awesome-looking units. Still, even with just the ground combat you've gotta wonder at how any 40k faction could match the sheer output of a couple factories, to say nothing of the destructive capability of the higher tech levels.

[@Chaerea_Carmin-Slaanesh_Chosen]

In the book The Quantum Thief, there is a gun that ships fire that break down the opposing ship and crew down particle by particle and replace it with identical particles except loyal to the side that fired it. This weapon is mentioned in passing in a single sentence as an example of obsolete weaponry.

[@isaac4800]

wtf????????

[@Hust91]

I wonder how a particle expresses loyalty.

[@kingdom8769]

ahahah this is crazy

[@dylutant]

​@@Hust91it simply isn't entangled with the wrong crowd

[@Chaerea_Carmin-Slaanesh_Chosen]

For reference that setting is advanced enough that individual particles can be given sentience. People do things like forcibly give a wall sentience then threaten to remove it if the wall doesn’t become a door to bypass a defense system and stuff

[@Mordikay211]

Horned Rat wakes up monday morning in 40k: "Oh looks like we won and created paradise".

[@allenbettis8558]

😂😂😂😂😂

[@Biotear]

He then wanders over to Cegoracht and they laugh it up for a bit until he gets bored and makes space Skaven

[@Mordikay211]

@@Biotear To be fair the Imperium is pretty much the Skaven of 40k.

[@Dantaroen]

@@Biotear Aren't the skaven already present. Just lives in the underhives not really doing much other than scavenging tech?...For now atleast.

[@Biotear]

@@Dantaroen i hope

[@fcomolineiro7596]

The imperium seeing the Xeelee sequence humans: hey, maybe , maybe we should not be assholes

[@youraveragescotsman7119]

Mfw you watch one ICOG mook bifurcate like 10 Marines at once with his *infantry-grade Starbreaker* The Imperium is gonna beg for mercy when they realize how outmatched they are. The Necron won't stomp them as badly as the ICOG would.

[@longwlenguyen4214]

@@youraveragescotsman7119 "Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@longwlenguyen4214]

@@youraveragescotsman7119 “Breed, fight hard, die young and stay human: you could sum up the Coalition’s philosophy in those few words. In its social engineering the Coalition set up a positive feedback process; unleashing a swarm of fast breeding humans across the galaxy until every star system had been filled. Not a noble way to do it, but it worked. And we did stay human, for twenty thousand years. Evolution postponed!” -Michae Poole

[@longwlenguyen4214]

@@youraveragescotsman7119 "Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@spartanalex9006]

@@youraveragescotsman7119No, not Space Marines. Titans. Infantry Star Breakers still have stellar destruction capabilities.

[@AncientWyrm1775]

On a meta level it works like this: 40K is a setting designed to justify a war game, so the setting revolves around armies, military strategy and tactics, and logistics. Therefore, any stupidly overpowered characters or weapons that would invalidate the existence of those armies cannot be allowed to exist, because it would invalidate the whole point. Basically every superhero or super-power anime setting is filled with characters who solo all of 40K, because their settings revolve around individual characters whose powers determine the fate of the world/universe/multiverse. There is no reason to have an army in a world where Superman exists, because even a trillion space marine level soldiers amount to nothing before him, because he's retardedly overpowered. This is fine for DC comics, because armies of any kind are a small and insignificant part of their stories (if at all). But in a story where the armies are important, you can't have individual characters that are stronger than armies. 40K's power scaling is actually handled really well because of this principal.

[@dantewilliams2757]

This

[@papapalps2415]

Except there literally are characters in 40k that can solo armies, lul.

[@OK-yy6qz]

Also since due to the way the game works it's a work that still needs ground units to be relevant. Xelee sequence is also a war-based novel. But war in this sense means literally Teraforming the Universe and manipulating the flow of time. Bayonets and Chainsaw swords aren't going to do much against Dark matter beings that can change Suns into white dwarfs and kill everything else in the Galaxy accidentally in the process. The same goes for Stelaris,by the Endgame the Superweapons and Fleets would be so massive any consept of Ground combat would be basically irrelevant

[@strolker94]

Also worth noting that entirety of the 40k takes place in one galaxy. There are sci-fi series with universe spanning empires.

[@davidsplooge14]

steven universe's gem-pire will absolutely destroy the imperium.

[@drxtale9446]

*cough cough* The Universal union/Combine… *cough*

[@user-pz6qz9xr1l]

Incorrect pancreas doesn't understand the warp

[@user-qm7rs9fq1t]

​@@drxtale9446Universal Union .

[@marley7868]

@@davidsplooge14 oh yeah there empire of what? no seriously how many do they have? cause while I haven't watched it I"d give rita repulsa pretty good odds at matching there threats of the weak by a decent bit

[@toaster8901]

Fun fact: Viltrumites are actually even stronger in the comics. They're a bit nerfed in the show.

[@matthewecho9061]

Ya but aren’t there only like 100 left

[@bajscast]

@@matthewecho9061 50 left

[@spiffygonzales5160]

I love the invincible series, but I've never read the comics. Could you explain to my who people actually put OmniMan on par with the justice League? Like... How does Aquaman not just minefuq his brain or magic him to death? How does flash not just phase his own cells into each other? How does Green Lantern not just make a thousand green omnimans each stronger than OmniMan? And so on. I've heard so much stuff comparing OmniMan to silver&bronze age superman that I'm actually curious if he has any feats or even scaling to get that far?

[@bajscast]

@@spiffygonzales5160 He isn't and he doesn't. Nolan is strong but no viltrumite is as strong the average strength of superman in canons. People will cite things like "Well they blew up a planet", which refers to an incident where three viltrumites fly through the core of a planet to explode it, but are only able to do this due to a powerful beam that can instakill viltrumites destabilizing the core. They outright say that otherwise they'd just die on impact. They're not able to survive in suns either

[@spiffygonzales5160]

@@bajscast See, that's what I figured. Over hype is real these days man.

[@pyrrusi6070]

17:02 Oh my God... It is my story! Very unexpected to see it here. What can I say? I wanted to do some charity work, and after conquering half of the xeno empire I was sure than heck that the other half was starving. So, I decided to give them a hand. Both in metaphorical, and literal sense. Thanks for the compliment!

[@alexbedel6320]

That's so awesome lmao.

[@im2randomghgh]

Supreme Commander shits on 40k as well. Churning out mechs bigger than titans in seconds, being able to convert entire planets into resources for mech production etc

[@nathandavidson7298]

I love how he casually admits that a Necromorph outbreak would be a huge problem that would integrate readily with the setting . He learned a lot from the debate 😂

[@christiandauz3742]

Chaos corrupts the Dead Space Universe Now Horus has more Cannon Fodder Humans and the Necromorphs to use at the Siege of Terra

[@ranbojd1070]

@@christiandauz3742 nah, Brethren moons remain their own thing

[@pancreasnowork9939]

I can assure you I was secretly rooting for Dead Space the entire time

[@nicholasray3749]

I dont think the marker can work on space marines of the of the psyco conditioning

[@thecommentguy9380]

I mean the Marker is a giant fucking headache. It's like the tyranids, except it convert your entire population into crazed psychos the moment they expose themselves to its radiation. Make matter worse, it can convert ANYTHING dead into necros and those fuckers won't stay dead until the Marker deems them ineffective for combat, then it just bring that lump of flesh to build something bigger. Tyranids got a bite out of that? Well tough luck, nids, cos your entire swarm is infected

[@jamzee_]

I appreciate mentioning the insane universe of Xeelee, such an underrated book and stories series thats not just grimderp, its grimDARK.

[@xenon3990]

Yea, you think 40k has weird sci fi concepts with the warp and Necrons and their shit like exterminatus and that and then you find out about the xelee who casually use suns as interstellar missiles

[@XraynPR]

​@@xenon3990 The Chaos gods wish they were as hardcore as the Monads

[@edmondroberts8494]

I’m honestly having a full on mental breakdown trying to process all the crazy shit in that series. Like oh my God

[@MisterZimbabwe]

Fun fact: Stephen Baxter, who wrote the Xeelee series, was one of the original writers for 40k. He left Games Workshop around 3rd or 4th edition due to, in his words, "The writing becoming too juvenile".

[@thorshammer7883]

There is also Manifold which introduces the Downstreamers.

[@rpk321]

The whole Battle Tech being able to fight 40K on the same level outside of scale is really dependent on the era. And even then, it is incredibly iffy.

[@Ydrakar]

Dark age would be interesting, battletech wouldn’t win, but neither would 40k… glory to Blake!

[@iglidor]

@@Ydrakar WH40k Dark age would eat Battletech for breakfast. At that point humanity was taking full advantage of AI and progressed technologicaly to such degree that they could create black holes at will (vortex weapons), had disintegration weaponry, functional cloak fields, use limited time travel and turn stars into novas, effectively destroying everything in that system. On other side Battletech even during Star League was not dramaticaly more advanced. Not by several orders of magnitude like the WH40k Dark age vs 41M (current era). Battletech during Star League had more effective factories, more effective agriculture, able to construct stronger alloys etc. in comparsion to its later eras, but all they had were just more efficient things that they still have now. Single Star League mech will not hold up against 10 Succesion/Clan era mechs of similiar weight. Single Dark Age WH40k vehicle will vastly outperform any 10 vehicles of same category/size from 41M.

[@spartanalex9006]

@@iglidor He's referring to the Dark Age Era of BattleTech. It's one of the furthest points of the BT Timeline that we have playable rules for. You can't even debate 40k Dark Ages since we have so little information on it that we can't tell whether half the stuff in it are standard feats or exceptional examples, have no records of factions, or even have any idea of events that happened in it other than broad stroke details.

[@coltonstrickland7750]

What the fuck is captain Titus gonna do when green arrow hits him with the nuclear warhead arrow

[@azureheart2846]

I was actually thinking about that.

[@fomod_]

The Grim-Darkness of 40k is that they _USED_ to be overpowered. They may seem overpowered now at a glance, but they were unfathomably more advanced during the Dark Age of Technology, or Golden Age if you will.

[@victorpedrosoceolin3919]

just reminding that the entire setting takes place in a single galaxy, even the daot humans didnt go outside, which puts into question, why?

[@sephiroaone-of-nine101]

Ok and? Plenty of fiction races are like that, it's a cop-out

[@bodricthered]

How do you know that the daot humans didn't get outside the milky way?

[@lostnemesis]

When he brought up DC I was like "oh yeah DC forever could have kicked their ass" because something you need to know if Magnus decides to get all uppity or someone does the same damn thing and goes to Lucifer Morningstar you suddenly have quite a large swath of things that just disappeared 😂

[@wolf2965]

@@victorpedrosoceolin3919Humans didn't, Necrons and Orks apparently did - and Tyranids are literally an extra-galactic threat. Humanity is not everything in 40k.

[@Overlordough1201]

I propose: Armored Core Where Imperial Knight-sized mechs can move at Mach 1, and where superstructures the size of continents are just made in, at most, a few months.

[@pancreasnowork9939]

“621, there are some strange forces that appear to be dressing their Cores in medieval era finery. Take care of them if you can be bothered, the Coral takes priority.”

[@terrykrugii5652]

​@@pancreasnowork9939 "621, I just finished some last second negotiations with Arquebus. Those 'medieval' forces... they are willing to pay an extra 500 credits for each man you kill. Not because they're a threat, but because somebody in the treasury thinks it'll be funny. I'll let you decide how to proceed."

[@kryvex4996]

After beating it 3 times and seeing the weapon variety, as well as seeing how big and stupid fast the mechs are, I'm convinced the mechs could do some mad damage in 40k

[@user-pz6qz9xr1l]

​@pancreasnowork9939 kzbin.info/www/bejne/gYnTeKKbq892Y5Ysi=fUWryaSlqFf4Ne3v kzbin.info/www/bejne/nnitemevnsaLftksi=A2cBkGyHEiicXvgg These videos automatically debunk this Also in terms of power scaling The warhammer 40k verse scales to High Outerversal to possibly Boundless And those verses you stated above are absolute fodder kindly stop downplaying 40k when you ckearly dont know what youre talking

[@elpito9326]

​@@user-pz6qz9xr1l It's really not that serious

[@MarkMark-yr4xq]

Even as a big fan of WH40k, this is completely fair.

[@valletas]

Seeing people argue that the emperor of mankind can somehow win fights against characters that can destroy the entire universe is wild Like horus couldnt even destroy a planet but was able to mortally wound the emperor The emperor is strong and has probably become stronger since but he still cant do shit against some of the most powerfull characters out there

[@Lightscribe225]

He's also the dude who soloed a Ctan shard when humans were still in the Bronze age so power levels are all over the damn place with 40k.

[@valletas]

@@Lightscribe225 yeah This is usually the thing people use to prove that he could win against the demi fiend or goku and stuff but that honestly makes no sense considering how badly his fight with horus went I can only think that he lost most of his powers fighting the ctan shard and was left with only a small fraction of what he had Or warhammer is just full of plot holes...

[@Lightscribe225]

@@valletas Go with the latter. Tau crisis suits can whether bolter fire without a dent one day, then the next day bolters shred battle suit armor like it's paper. Angron is shown to be this unstoppable mountain of rage and death, but his tabletop rules lets him get bodied by an ork warboss. Problem with 40k is power levels are constantly changing to fit the narrative. Everyone and everything is only as strong as they need to be for the current story.

[@youraveragescotsman7119]

@@Lightscribe225 To be fair, using in-game stats to debate things has been a horrible idea ever since the SC "Mega Marine" thread happened on SB. Using in-game stats is a pathway to madness, unless there is no other media to use.

[@dc7981]

Level 99 Jack Frost also solos

[@craneum123]

im very glad you mentioned Xeelee Sequence. I love introducing that special kind of 40k fan who has to sit in discords and go off about how overwhelmingly powerful their setting is to a single Xeelee Nightfighter 💀

[@lelouchvibritannia7809]

You are a hero

[@redjirachi1]

You see them mentioned in a bunch of power scaling videos but there's very little content explaining and detailing the actual lore and stories of it

[@craneum123]

@@redjirachi1 Comes with being a niche hard sci-fi setting i think, the fanbase just isn't there to cultivate a comprehensive wiki and the books themselves can be a bit hard to digest and untangle, though the author does a wonderful job at taking all these incredibly complex theoretical science things and making them understandable to the average reader. I'd really recommend the books, Raft is the first book he ever wrote in that setting and while it doesnt actually contain the titular xeelee at all its still an awesome bit of hardcore sci-fi.

[@thorshammer7883]

I wonder how the Xeelee and the Downstreamers would react to something like the Glory from Doctor Who. That's got to be impressive to them.

[@Conejoazul2018]

I enjoyed the setting but no the stories. I know they are supposed to be grim but i never feel they were showcasing me something grim but rather exlaining it to me.

[@theavatarofinsanity]

For some reason, I feel compelled to mention the cthulhu mythos and the "Character" Azathoth. Who by himself could quite literally destroy the entire setting of 40k by simply waking up from his afternoon nap.

[@JohnDoe-sx6iw]

That is a different old one, Azathoth is just super hungry to the point that other old ones play trumpets for all eternity resulting in our physical reality.

[@Beepers559]

Imagine being so peckish that everyone has to serenade you to sleep with bedtime stories

[@pope4510]

@@JohnDoe-sx6iw No, Azatoth is the one sleeping and dreaming the reality into existence. And he is one of the most op beings in all of fiction

[@Silungar]

@@pope4510 He is literally commonly interpreted to be a metaphor for the uncaring cruelty of the universe, so, yeah... Also, as dumb as it is to throw beings like that into power scaling: It is said to sit specifically both in the center and outside of EXISTENCE, not the universe, so even multiversal entities from other settings couldn't do shit - how even? The Outer Gods are literally immune to the very concept of change. (Nega-Chin from Cosmo and Wanda could still beat it tho, because he can canonically leave the realm of fiction and beat up the writer until he makes him win)

[@Asterion_Mol0c]

A better one that is technically more powerful than azathoth is Yog-Sothoth

[@rakisuzuki-burke4148]

Another one: Space Battleship Yamato: Take, for example, the Dreadnought class battleship. It's 242 meters long. In addition to its main guns, which fire beams of antimatter, it carries a spinal-mounted Wave-Motion Gun. The first time a Wave-Motion Gun was used (mounted on a different class of ship), it vaporized a floating continent the size of Australia. The crew of that ship were unwilling to use it against an alien base on Pluto because they were *scared that it would destroy the entire dwarf planet*. In a flashback scene, six wave motion guns destroy a full-sized planet, with a seventh vaporizing the planet's moon. The Dreadnought-class battleships aren't even the most powerful ships used by the UNCF, and they aren't the smallest ones to mount a Wave-Motion gun.

[@logangrimnar3800]

The Majin Vegeta reference was perfect, as I've always felt the Butchers Nails bore an uncanny likeness to the Majins symbol. In fact, if the Nucerian gladiators had been allowed to watch more DBZ we could have had a very different Angron. Angron: "you may have invaded my mind and my body, but there's one thing a Primarch always keeps! His PRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE!!!!" Then he'd reclaim his aura and wreck house.

[@bottasheimfe5750]

I'm a huge Stellaris nerd and literally everything you said about it had me doubled over from laughing so hard

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Is it a good or bad?

[@indrickboreale7381]

Most space empires in Stellaris function like Warhammer 40k - bad economy that runs on Grand Admiral cheats

[@dodojesus4529]

​@@indrickboreale7381everything is dependent on me winning thise subjugation

[@TheAsylumCat]

If i recall correctly, there was a dlc that let you build a weapon that could destroy stars from another star system​@@berilsevvalbekret772

[@You-to-be]

the enslaving and turning into food only to be sold back to your brethren bit, got me.

[@Jambonneau826]

This talk of necromorphs in 40k reminds me that Mortarion's homeworld had necromancers but we ended up never getting proper necromancers in 40k. The Imperium justifying the use of necromancy would have been a neat lore point and necromancers could have been an actually original 40k faction / SM Chapter. Before you say Necrons, they have more in common with polar bears than necromancers.

[@sirshotty7689]

They’re probably some form of nurgle worshippers that’s usually the case when it comes to reanimate the dead. I know nurgle has reanimated corpses before. Imagine an army of nurgle cultists that just keep getting back up after dying because they keep getting reanimated by a psyker cultist, that sounds awesome imo.

[@richardround2071]

I would say they took necromancy and split it towards necrons as the soulless undead, and elder, with the ability to use the souls of the dead in war. Id personally like to see the ynnari with more of a necromancy theme, with ethereal troops, more wraithbone constructs and a more necromancy look.

[@weldonwin]

Way back in the day, in the old Necromunda game, there was a character called Karloth Valois who was pretty much straight up a Necromancer. He was a psyker, heavily implied to be dead himself but kept undead by his powers, which allowed him to suck the life out of people to keep himself going and then control his victims as zombies.

[@christianholt6266]

Necrons are more like the things a necromancer would summon rather than the summoner themselves. Aside from a few unique individuals that from what I remember are basically not around anymore.

[@sentane8031]

Dark Machinicum aren't necromancers in the traditional sense but if Necrons are undead aligned and the DM is famous for the use of Necron tech, among other races, wouldn't that make them the stand in we have to necromancers? sucks tho wish we had some full on skeleton summoning, death dealing, converse with the spiri- wait, every human soul gets eaten by warp entities and that might be why no one can do necromancy.

[@kirinthewanderer5896]

I feel like doctor who has a surprisingly good time against 40k. The time lords are practically unkillable turbo necrons. The daleks almost killed the practically unkillable turbo necrons. Not to mention the black and white guardians and the toymaker are practically chaos gods in and of themselves. I'm at least 99% certain the Osirans are the inspiration for the c'tan (or the nightbringer at least) and I haven't even mentioned literally satan.

[@papapalps2415]

'Suprisingly'...? The Time Lords and the Daleks are some of the most powerful civilizations in the entirety of fiction, flat out, lul. They don't even notice 40k exists.

[@kirinthewanderer5896]

@@papapalps2415 I mean surprisingly insofar as doctor who is a light-hearted family show which Douglas fucking Adams used to be a frequent contributor and about as far from military si-fi as a si-fi show can be and yet the powerful civilizations in the verse make the armies of most si-fi properties look like children's toys. To put it a different way, 40k has tens of billions of soldiers with hyper advanced weaponry, but Doctor Who has a funny man in a box, so none of them stand a chance.

[@chowrites6179]

Lovecrafts elder gods and other such beings would make for an interesting crossover into 40k. For example, Zushakon vs any of the Chaos Gods

[@valletas]

Some of them do "technically" exist in the setting but they are just lame versions of themselfs

[@gizzit2712]

The Ghoul Stars is basically LoveCraft in Warhammer 40k. Tyranids and Chaos both went there and noped right the fuck out though its never truly elaborated as to why.

[@chowrites6179]

@@gizzit2712 oh shit, that sounds dope. which book is that?

[@nine-tailedfox1243]

I think you should have mentioned the daleks from doctor who. At the height of their power, they managed to fight and nearly defeat a race of what were essentially time traveling gods, who only “won” by removing both races from existence. And who also removed magic from their universe. To put it simply, they have a few feats comparable to 40k

[@human3745]

I’d like to add that the War in Heaven (different from the Time War) in Doctor Who was a war fought throughout the entirety of space time by the Time Lords (who casually made a side dimension out of pure thought and had a celestial orrery, but for the entirety of space-time) and the Enemy, (who’s identity most Time Lords didn’t even know, and who were less an actual species, and more an aspect of reality itself).

[@cataclysmusultimus]

And the daleks don’t even (or just barely) reach top 10 most powerful species and creatures in the dr omniverse

[@iansahleen1173]

They were able to weaponize platonic concepts via the nightmare child and destroy the entire omniverse via the Reality Bomb

[@HydratedBeans]

Yeah but doctor who is goofy, so who cares. Goofy ass trash cans get beaten by a tumblr era skinny steampunk boy wielding a vibrator.

[@christiandauz3742]

Daleks are stupid. Can't even use stairs!

[@jonathantreleven1823]

I know one name that would make any Warhammer fan boy froth at the mouth: Kirby. This little puff ball is literally a foot tall and could curb stomp any deamon primarch into non-existence. Hell, even the Chaos Gods have nothing on Kirby being he is a force of good so potent that all he needs is the 'power of friendship monolog' to create a laser that could blast a Lovcrafian God into smithereens. And, no, Kirby can't be corrupted by Chaos. He just ignores conventional rules and just be himself no matter what universe he is. Like that one time, there was a universe of evil body doubles, and the bad version of Kirby is just that he is only scared. That. Is. It. Really, he was just a scaredy cat, and it didn't take much pushing for the mirror version of Kirby to help the original, and he still kicked Evil Metaknight's ass. Chaos will not touch him, and I don’t think the Chaos Gods even want to be near him either, it's not even a contest.

[@christiandauz3742]

Kirby is basically Galactus but more powerful, nicer and cuter If Kirby was in Marvel he would be a god above other gods!

[@clonewarsenthusiast5711]

​He can only be pacified by friendship and Strawberry cake. Most Daemons wouldn't dare give Kirby those.​@@christiandauz3742

[@bigburkhart2293]

Kirby would be anathema to the forces of chaos even greater than the Emperor. Not only would Kirby be incorruptible, but his mere presence would make chaos recoil.

[@Sara3346]

On the other hand someone plying him with enough cake toys and videogames would I bet probably be able to keep him distracted from doing anything ad infinitium.

[@tincano-beans2114]

Infinite suck eh? I know someone who has several questions for the suck machine 😮

[@xeroxedable]

Xeelee Sequence sounds really cool. I should read those books. WH40K vs. The Archailects from Orions Arm would destroy most of the powers in the setting.

[@caav56]

Thunderbolts for everyone!

[@longwlenguyen4214]

Hilariously Stephen Baxter the author of Xeelee Sequence used to worked for GW as a Warhammer Fantasy writer and magazine reviewer.

[@longwlenguyen4214]

"Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@Spino-hx2mr]

Apparently, it's boring, which would explain why Warhammer 40k far exceeds them in popularity. That, and having an actual set of games, visual media, etc...

[@brianschonfeld1733]

You know it would be funny if a s7 intelligence was a minor warp god.

[@gups4963]

Yuuzhan vong would work well in 40k, it'd be interesting to see how that would play out with the Tyranids and Orcs

[@paulsmart4672]

Sort of weird that you went into obscure high-brow scifi and instead of The Culture being your pick you went to the *even more* obscure and highbrow Xeelee Sequence.

[@vonfaustien3957]

The Culture at least is kind of comparable to 40k being a galaxy spanning civilization even if the culture equivalent of a fed ex truck outguns a blackstone fortress the participants of the war in Heaven would at least qualify as middle powers in the cultures universe. The Xeele probably wouldnt even notice anything was going on in 40k the scales to small.

[@longwlenguyen4214]

"Do not remember heroes. Do not speak their names. Remember my words, but do not speak my name. I have a vision of a Galaxy overrun by mankind from Core to rim. Of four hundred billion stars each enslaved to the rhythms of Earth’s day, Earth’s year. I have a vision of a trillion planets pulsing to the beat of a human heart. And I have a vision of a child. Who will grow up knowing neither family nor comfort. Who will not be distracted by the illusion of a long life. Who will know nothing but honor and duty. Who will die joyously for the sake of mankind. That is a hero. And I will never know her name. Always remember: a brief life burns brightly." Hama Druz founder of ICoG from Xeelee Sequence

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

​@@longwlenguyen4214 ah yes. THE CUNT of Xeelee verse.

[@erdachtzumuntergang]

​@@longwlenguyen4214 Can we have that IRL?

[@jonatand2045]

Even real life in 40k years might beat warhammer 40k just because every star system and stray planet in hundreds of light years might have scores of superintelligent machines in them.

[@Ace_Of_Spade639]

The universe of the Finno-Korean Hyperwar would probably absolutely BODY 40k Edit: wow 500 likes didn’t expect this but thanks

[@iansahleen1173]

That’s just our universe before they turned physics off and on again

[@Blaze6108]

The WHAT

[@Trazynn]

@@Blaze6108 Before the Dark Ages there was the Roman Empire. But before the Roman Empire there was the Egyptian empire which were basically the remnants of Pre-diluvian Babylon which was built on the foundations of Atlantis which recovered from the destruction of Maldek after the Centaurian Expansion. Eitherway, all these periods in our history are mere footnotes to the Finno Korean Hyperwar that preceded all of this.

[@user-pr2rr9sf8j]

As a veteran of the hyperwar, I think the current generation is pathetic. The Gaza Mass Autism Array really did it's job too good.

[@SordidusFellatio]

“Probably absolutely”

[@brandonevans4295]

Vegetta can body 40k, unless he does the thumb pose.. then he dies to the weakest guardsmen

[@tristanrouse6150]

Here is one setting that you have probably never heard of, but is underrated in terms of power and sheer flexibility: _Schlock Mercenary_ . Sci-fi setting with relatively normal sci-fi stuff....at first glance. I will give you a few key words to look up for further research: Laz'R'Us. Pa'anuri. Long Guns. Plenipotent Dominion. Carbosilicate Amorph. Teraport. Fabbers. Annie-plants Kevyn. Petey.

[@404_nowheresnotfound3]

TLDR?

[@DigiThorn]

The biggest weakness 40k faces when in a versus series situation is the lack of technological development Almost all of the factions that exist in 40k are, at best, trying to get back to what their technology was some millions of years ago, and at worst are pretty much actively *stifling* technological advancement. Which is pretty much the exact reason why Stellaris would win, even if not immediately.

[@diggman88]

Yeah, I think Star wars would eventually out tech 40k in a war. For a long time the standard warship was the dreadnought cruiser in the Republic. By the end of the galactic civil war, the ISD-1 was considered baseline. Star wars doesn't build big ships because they don't need to. They are perfectly capable of escalating when they need too.

[@XD-sc4ix]

​​@@diggman88 eeh not really star wars for the most part is just as stagnant as 40k since they still use the same five weapons also a big reason why I think they wouldn't win is that they simply lack the robust and long lasting imperial industry that has been going strong for over 10000 years of non-stop war without any sign of stopping sure the empire had over 20000 star destroyers but that was during a period where the only foes they've encountered were a bunch of space pirates, some jedi in hiding and disorganized freedom fighters

[@JakeBaldwin1]

@@XD-sc4ix The thing is that the republic has regressed and stagnated in the military department for at least a thousand years. (At least in legends, although the blaster tech has been improving in less obvious areas like ammo capacity and size.) But during both the clone wars and the galactic civil war major tech and industrial advancements were achieved in as little as a few years. That rapid advancement combined with the imperium's slow response time would really improve the empire's or republic's chances. What would be an awesome fight would be the old republic/ sith empire, that was basically their military height, not technologically but socially.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Star Wars would get dhitstomped unless a brilliant general uses ISDs in guerilka operations in order to force a truce upon threat of systematic world annihilation as a form of MAD

[@Betrix5060]

Stellaris wins because “Tau on crack” is the baseline for technological development. Really the only thing holding them back is gameplay constraints, particularly galaxy size. The playable galaxy is canonically hundreds of thousands of light years across so unless 99.99999% of star systems are being ignored for some reason there should be hundreds of billions to claim. Hell one of the trailers drops “trillions of stars”, so good luck beating that “empire of a million worlds”.

[@allcoolmrdon]

If anyone had read the ‘Three body problem’ book series, specifically the second book. I think it provides an excellent and kinda realistic depiction of what massively powerful alien technology could be like

[@durazno4948]

I came to say this one, too. Our three-dimensional universe being the bombed out ruins of a 10-dimensional universe is a pretty fun idea.

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

"tHe TrIsOlArAnS aRe ****Ed" - Words spoken before your (almost) entire navy gets annihilated by a very dense teardrop.

[@ananonymousnerd.2179]

@@durazno4948 That moment that Holy Terra gets turned into a 2D painting by some random Xenos guy who likes to sing on the job. Oh, wait, that's already happened before. Goodbye, Imperium!

[@remainprofane7732]

@@durazno4948monodimensionality, here we come.

[@ciscornBIG]

That series was so awful. If that is the crown jewel of Chinese sci fi then they have a long way to go. So cringe. All of it.

[@seraphsleeping1804]

The 1st setting that came to mind was the Culture from Ian M Banks. Giant spaceships that just keep humans around for entertainment. As for the Xelee from my memory it was hinted/stated in a later book that they needed to team up with the birds to battle a higher entity.

[@ryanpennington9592]

In Xeelee, there are beings called Monads who create universes and then descend into them to watch the stories that occur. I don’t know if that’s the higher being you’re talking about, but there’s nothing the Xeelee or the Photino Birds against them.

[@longwlenguyen4214]

You must be mistaken the war before the Birds the Xeelee allied with two really weird aliens one made out of symmetrical diamonds (that will again joined Xeelee in their war against mankind) and another one but forgot what they made up against an anti matter race that nearly cost an inflation in the universe.

[@oluwatosinopawoye5695]

Ok. So. There's this Anime called SBY (Star Battleship Yamato). It's really crazy and is just DBZ but in space. First series the Yamato has to save the earth from a faction called the Gammilas which are Space Nazis. They had to travel to the Large Magellanic Cloud over 160,000 km away. In a year. They covered that in a year. Secondly, before the Yamato goes to the LMC, they blow up an asteroid the size of Australia with the Wave Motion Gun. Australia. Let that sink in. It destroyed a continent sized object. After it got back home, the UNCF (United Navy Space Force) starts building thousands/hundreds of thousands WMG equipped ships. Each with planet busting weapons. And they pump em out thanks to the Time Fault Shipyard which makes ships 10X faster than in realspqce. For example, the shipyard buids 100 Andromeda (Dual barreled) ships in 10 days and 150 Dreadnoughts (single barrel) in 7 days. And those ships have a dual purpose mode for their WMG which can decimate entire million ship fleets. Finally the Yamato comes back but this time with a TWMG (Transit Wave Motion Gun) which dissolves an entire system. AN ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM. Gone, reduced to atom's although it slagged the barrel doing that. Imagine the UNCF mass producing the TWMG and using automated ships (they do that for their ships) they drive the ship to Terra then press the button. Simply put, there is no Terra anymore. Plus their secondary guns are shooting beams of Antimatter that act like blades when they leave the barrel. The most damming part? The ships are only as big or a bit larger than WW2 Battleships, destroyed or cruisers. How will you win in a ship battle if your opponent is faster, more powerful pound for pound and more mobile while also having an insane industry advantage. They won't win in the end because they're only human, after all. Plus the Solar system is the only base they have so they aren't interplanetary yet. I recommend it if you're interested.

[@bthsr7113]

For me, one of the best things about CIVIL who would win debates is getting to learn about new characters, new settings, and new details. Also, those "multiple levels beyond cosmic" birds form the Xeelee Sequence reminded me of the cosmic birds briefly mentioned in a dreadnought lore bit from Destiny. Also also, that frame of the TARDIS reminded me of that time the Daleks built a "bomb" to wipe out their multiverse.

[@russellstephens3580]

The deep lore in destiny is cracked. I'm so bummed that the people running bungie now don't deserve any of my money, I was real excited to get some of the recent expansions on sale. The lore card where rasputin encoutners the darkness is one of the best bits of writing for higher dimensional fighting at a level people can't comprehend I've ever read. "IT was stronger than everything. I fought IT with aurora knives and with the stolen un-fire of singularities made sharp and my sweat was earthquake and my breath was static but IT was stronger so how did I survive?" Google "Ghost Fragment: Mysteries" for the whole thing, it's great writing.

[@Retrosicotte]

Civil comparison was how I learned about Battletech's real detail. Now it's one of my favourite, most followed universes.

[@gornfoo]

I know a little bit about everything in this video except Xeelee. Thanks to this I have my next read.

[@stormlord819]

I personally think that the Supreme commander universe would wipe the floor with 40k.

[@attila535]

It's al fun and games, until the fatboys start rolling out of the factories.

[@skytheannur6168]

said it before I did, SupCom will just drown out 40k

[@chrismath149]

@@attila535 Jealous Admech noises.

[@XD-sc4ix]

Unfortunately their spaceship capabilities are non-existent

[@joshdotavi]

I wholeheartedly agree with this

[@toolazytomakeaname1341]

Godzilla is actually a pretty interesting bit as well depending on which version you use, he: -Is literally Immortal -Is Immune to psychics (And can physically harm them if they try to mess with his head) -Has a ranged attack that gets infinitely stronger every time he spits it out -Fought the Marvel universe and was only stopped because someone told him to go away -Pulled a Doom Slayer and carved his way through hell and kills what is presumed to be The Devil -Made a planet's entire biosphere an extension of himself -Killed the Olympians That's not all of the stuff he's done He stole precious screentime away from Captain Gordon's mustache in Godzilla Final Wars

[@samblackstone3400]

Abbadon fights his way to Holy Terra only to find it in ruins with a very angry Godzilla stomping on the Golden Throne.

[@dodojesus4529]

Also shin godzilla, if it isnt stopped in the first few weeks its gg.

[@XD-sc4ix]

I like Godzilla but most of his incarnations would lose including pretty much every movie version

[@XD-sc4ix]

@@dodojesus4529 not really shin Godzilla evolving into a godlike being is nothing but fanon

[@dodojesus4529]

@@XD-sc4ix it just szopping after the *confirmed* fifth form doesnt make sense either

[@Shadowrunner340]

I saw the title, then saw Xeelee Nightfighters in the thumb, and knew I had to watch. One small correction, though - the Xeelee didn't leave the galaxy because they were tired of humanity's shit (though they WERE tired of humanity's shit), but because a small group of humans had managed to break through to the central black hole. *SPOILER* The central black hole (the interior of it) was host to the Monads, who were to the Xeelee as the Xeelee were to the Transcendence. They literally dreamed the universe into existence, and if they were to wake, the dream would end. Humans were about to poke the proverbial bear, but the Xeelee decided to retreat from the galaxy rather than gamble on humanity's bluff. *SPOILER*

[@dc7981]

And it only gets crazier in manifold

[@Shadowrunner340]

@@dc7981 Yes, it does.

[@CreatureCreator765]

Finally someone who notices that 40K doesn’t automatically win because ‘it’s 40k’ when franchises like doom and halo exist

[@memosanchez8916]

I can understand doom but Current halo loses though the forunners are extinct , the flood is no longer a threat and factions like covenant , banished and unsc can’t produce anywhere near the scale the imperium of man can

[@sephiroaone-of-nine101]

​@memosanchez8916 define a win? Total annihilation? Intense damage conducted? What is a win(?)

[@memosanchez8916]

⁠@@sephiroaone-of-nine101a combination of both and whether it’s one on one while the covenant would definitely do damage to the imperium it can’t do enough to cripple or destroy it the covenant killed close to 20-25 billion humans in the human -covenant war that’s not even a drop in the bucket to the imperium true the imperium can’t dedicate its full attention to the covenant due to being surrounded on all sides but if that’s the case it’s not a fair one on one is it ?

[@clan741]

⁠@@memosanchez8916the flood are still a threat. They are active on the Ark and there are still preserved specimens on rings and other containment facilities. It takes only one flood spore for things to spiral in an early grave for 40k; but Pancreas already did a vid on the flood in 40k so that is worth a watch for how the flood would devour the 40k galaxy.

[@markhohenbrink5230]

​@memosanchez8916 the next book coming out for Halo is about how the Ur-Didact is still around and kicking, so there is a good chance the prometheans are still a major threat in halo.

[@yasquishyboi902]

thank god someone says it, there’s definitely stronger stuff in the world

[@darthchungus9964]

Scp,cthullu mythos,marvel,dc,trashy lightnovels and manhwas,Stephen king and many more 40k is middle of the road when it comes to overthe top powers and beings

[@yasquishyboi902]

@@darthchungus9964 Exactly my good fellow!

[@datuguro9029]

40k vs that one creature made in an argument to combat that other preschooler’s creature during lunch break.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

​@@darthchungus9964 sure but the way marvel does it is just too childishly op how about 5 magic stones that makes all your wishes come true somehow? Yea ok...very creative ^^

[@KarlFranz5017]

@@darthchungus9964 How is Stephen King stronger than 40k? I thought his work was just a clown hiding in a sewer.

[@ShivaX51]

A single Culture ship could beat every faction of 40K in less than a second. Entire Imperial Fleet vs Mistake Not... = Imperium defeated in maybe a microsecond if Mistake Not is distracted or taunting them.

[@lechevalier-ns2pt]

About dragonball ftl Doing some quick maths, Jupiter is 590 million kilometers from earth and it takes like 10 seconds for the namekian ship to travel from earth to Jupiter. So that is basically 59 million kilometers per second while light travels at 300 thousand kilometers per second. The namekian ship travels 196,6 times faster than light. The namekian ship takes three months to reach namek. The saiyan ship that goku used takes 6 DAYS to make the same trip. Dragon ball ftl is absolutely insane

[@XD-sc4ix]

FR dragon ball tech is bonkers

[@1EthanCC]

About a week ago I ordered Flux, which is a Xeelee book about a heavily modified version of humanity living in the mantle of a neutron star. By heavily modified I mean they're made of nickel atoms, about a million times smaller (their capital city is a centimeter across) due to their higher density, and smell photons because of how slowly light moves in a neutron star. Their sight is based on sound instead. The humans that initially colonized the neutron star used bodies that were were fractal patterns of hyperdense material from the core, and connected the various parts of the mantle using wormholes to speed up travel. They have a machine that lets them pilot the neutron star, which is a big part of the plot.

[@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593]

Hold on they use a neutron star as a car? WTF? 💀💀💀💀

[@indigowest6894]

​@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593 No. They use neutron stars as *ammunition*. The one this comment refers to was fired at the Xeelee Ring, to destroy it because humanity thought it was a superweapon.

[@adalsal816]

I WOKE UP IN A NEW BUGATTI!!!​@@jhonnoilcringeincarnato8593

[@Sh1tbagActual]

@@indigowest6894oh. Humanity evolved an entire subspecies to make a Piloted bomb out of a Neutron Star.

[@indigowest6894]

@@Sh1tbagActual Yep. SPOILERS: They did the same thing to Earth's Moon as well, flinging it at the Xeelee Ring. They also sent a fleet of ships towards the Ring, with a crew that was engineered in such a way that when certain key phrases that formed a poem were uttered by people at their various stops along the journey (Stops included the neutron star and the Moon, btw, so this was a multi-millenia spanning plan) and the final line was spoken, the harmless looking colonisation fleet would turn into a battlefleet, and all the crew would become fanatical soldiers instead of peaceful religious messengers. And it still failed.

[@somerandomguyontheinternet8914]

I think it's pretty accurate calling 40k the Dark Souls of sci-fi. Not only are they pretty powerful while still keeping it "fair" in each respective setting, most of the stuff you encounter are a shadow of its former self

[@danielgudi7446]

That is actually a fair point.

[@Bang-ld4be]

This is a VERY observant take, love it

[@bruticus1496]

Right until you meet the molecular disintegrator beams of a necron hunter

[@somerandomguyontheinternet8914]

@@bruticus1496 And yet they spent more time fighting each other rather than taking over the galaxy. Every 40k faction has their own reason why they hasn't rule the galaxy yet because then GW can't milk them

[@kronos661]

@@bruticus1496 What we see of necrons is also only pale shadow of what once was.

[@gauracappelletti3893]

40k fans who think 40k beats everything else just don't watch/read other sci-fi

[@GrandMarshalGarithos]

There’s plenty in other settings better than 40k stuff, but rabid warhammer fans just refuse to accept it. Especially if you suggest that space marines aren’t really a big deal, which they aren’t, they’re stupid. Faced off against more sensible and advanced forces in other sci-fi settings they just become walking targets.

[@silentnight6810]

I sense the rage of thousands of people slamming their keyboards

[@clan741]

It’ll be very cathartic

[@Beepers559]

The curse of a vs debate

[@zappbrannigan83]

Yeah. It's called rage farming. Kinda pointless. Like a dick measuring contest between incels.

[@Gibson7Clans]

I'm really happy more people are pushing 40K off it's high horse. XD it's about time they stop being arragent with other sci-fis

[@zappbrannigan83]

@@Gibson7Clans being Arragent is every 40k's fan fatal flaw.

[@triplehelix3207]

I've read only 2 of the Xeelee books when i was a teenager, they are wild stuff Baxter's Manifold series has the Downstreamers, future humans who've lived as the only sentient life in their whole universe which allowed them to master everything, who could probably beat the Xeelee. they used that knowledge and power to create the multiverse which they basically exist as custodians over

[@jacobsheehan5775]

So if I get this right they can do to the xeelee what the xeelee did to the transcendent

[@TonyStark-qe3kd]

@@jacobsheehan5775yeah so basically we are insects for 40k and 40k are insects for the inner coalition of governance and they are insects for the transcendence and the transcendence are insects for the xeelee and the xeelee are insects for the Downstreamers they are basically gods even more then xeelee and they play Lego with Galaxy clusters to build a supergate like the ancients in stargate to escape black matter beings

[@blackshogun272]

@@jacobsheehan5775 I just realized that any high ball interpretation of an IRL primordial + chief deity washes the Xeelee.

[@Based_Gigachad_001]

Do downstreamers beat the Qu?

[@triplehelix3207]

@@Based_Gigachad_001 yes and easily

[@Palgineer]

40k definitely has some wonky and funny scale issues. I’ll give an example: the Earthshaker is a 132mm heavy artillery piece that can fire a 38kg shell over 15km at a muzzle velocity of 814 mph. Sounds impressive. The current M777 used by the USA since 2005 is a 155mm medium towed artillery piece that can fire a 43.2kg shell over 20km at a muzzle velocity of almost 2000mph. Before this, it was the M198, and before that, it was the M114, a WWII era 155mm MEDIUM artillery gun that could fire the same 43kg shell as the M777 about 14.6km w/ a muzzle velocity of 1300mph. That’s right, WWII era US troops had a similar, if not better, artillery piece than the Imperial Guard. Also, somehow, Earthshakers have less mass despite being larger, but let’s chalk that up to mystical scifi metals. Of course, this doesn’t matter in the long run, artillery is artillery and big numbers do big booms. We could argue about ammo and artillery explosive filler and whatever for days. Ultimately, I think it shows that 40k writers, and many other franchises as well, have the problem of trying to put hard numbers to sci-Fi wumbo jumbo. It’s probably because the writers aren’t ex-military or have a team of advisors, or historians, or whatever but are closer to a bunch of dudes thinking about sci-Fi cool shit. That’s fine, and we shouldn’t gatekeep writing to “hard science and numbers and logistics only.” I just think there should be less posturing and salt in fandoms about who could beat who and that we should keep it to casual hypotheticals instead.

[@thegrouchization]

My personal go-to example of a setting that trumps 40K is Strike Legion, whose scale can best be summed up by the fact that you can choose to take a planet-destroying weapon as an under-barrel attachment.

[@caav56]

I see you're the man of culture as well

[@thegrouchization]

@@caav56 Only in the sense that I know about it. never actually played it myself.

[@The-Samuil]

Let me bring up All Tomorrows. Even the Star People were fully capable of destroying stars without much dificulty. And then we have the Qu who defeated them with ease, the Second Humanities, the Machine Empire of the Gravitals and finally the Asteromorphs

[@AvantGardeCuration2299]

Doesn’t matter how many space marines are planetside if you throw a moon-sized asteroid at them. Even if you only put the Qu against 40k they’d still beat almost all factions akin to how they conquered the Star people.

[@theodorehodbor5080]

Drukhari: "Oh look at how I turned the pitiful mon'keigh we just captured into a funny looking chair!" The Qu: *Prowler theme plays*

[@FifingFossil]

Tau: ha! We evolve from strange things and now we spread cooperation! Secound human empire: bitch please, my ancestors are bricks

[@orionthanathos8861]

The Qu would definitely turn Imperium of Man into Xeno freaks.

[@darekbaird]

I'm never a fan of these debates mainly because ppl tend to have their own vision for the scale of the question. I mean a Stargate squad could reasonably take on an Imperial Guard squad. Now a ship load of imperial guard will probably only lose if they clog up the Stargate.

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

Sure if you set up the elite of the elite of the planet vs the weakest imperium soldiers.

[@yaelz6043]

A guardsman is as good a soldier as the writer needs him to be. A squad could either lose to an asthmatic child or beat the entire SG earth. They can't even decide what their weapons and armour are like. Does the standard issue guard flak stop M16 (stubbed?) rounds or not?

[@darekbaird]

Well a Cadian standard Guardsmen has enough open spots that enough .50 cal will hit flesh and there are ballistic munitions used in 40K by notmal humans. Does the lore ever say what caliber that is? ​@yaelz6043

[@mcmarkmarkson7115]

@@darekbaird earth weapon can kill regular guardsmen for sure. At least the ones without cybernetic implants.

[@rubbykibress7808]

@@darekbaird pretty sure a standard autogun is stated to fire "long 8.25" caliber bullets

[@Peptuck]

I absolutely love that you use "Raditz" as a measure of basic-bitch power in DBZ. Also, Supreme Commander would be a funny matchup, mostly because the SupCom equivalent of infantry is a Warhound Titan that sprints faster than most Eldar vehicles.

[@ColdNorth0628]

Xeelee is best decribed as "The author might be autistic, it is a book of futuristic space biology, with futuristic space tech, all explained for 200 pages, and then a minor plot is involved to go to more space stuff"

[@liamohman7426]

And then they are surfing in a neutron star and the guy gets a boner at the women - flux

[@secondarytrollaccount666]

The thing about the necromorphs that's scary is that very few people are immune or resistant to the markers signal. If all of Terra started killing each other and turning, the custodes would have a hard time protecting the palace and I mean a very difficult time. It depends on how quick they get ahold of the outbreak honestly if a marker hit earth and started popping off they better get to work immediately and start retaliating or its ogre.

[@cosmictreason2242]

People wouldn't turn unless they died though. Similar to the walking dead

[@GeminautVA]

​@cosmictreason2242 imperial citizens, especially terran pilgrims, would immediately ritual mass-koolaid themselves if the marker signal got in their head and presented itself as anything close to the emperor. Billions of willing converts become massive hordes of necromorphs in hours at most.

[@Firesnake905]

@@cosmictreason2242 Yeah, the marker should not be underestimated, the signal is a potent effect. It causes mass psychosis and mania to pretty much everyone in its radius. Also, eating necromorph flesh can also turn someone, slowly overtime. It would more require the emperor to immediately and violently remove the marker from Terra as soon as possible, as a marker is capable of surviving planetary level destructing in shards.

[@apileofcocaine6855]

Isn’t the emperor technically dead? Doesn’t the marker turn dead meat into necromorphs? the emperor might just turn into a necro as soon as the marker hit

[@Firesnake905]

@@apileofcocaine6855 That is a bit harder to determine, cause the Emperor is technically still alive, but barely. Also he is mostly bones at this point, so you know. Also the marker signal takes time with reanimating bodies, it does not happen instantly.

[@randomarcgunner4543]

Whenever someone says how OP 40k is I mention how in doctor who the Cybermen were considered dangerous to the point humans destroyed the Milky Way to try making the Cybermen extinct.

[@gabbonoo]

i think the OP comparison is based on common happenings. Else you could assume their multiverse is some variant of cluster realities in a wizard's bauble.

[@thegrouchization]

And it didn't even work!

[@xo-1320]

Here the thing to remember for scale. The Time Lords and the Last Time War Daleks are about on par with the Xeelee.

[@shzarmai]

I wish there were more Alien species in Sci-Fi with "Consciousness cloning" tech, quantum teleportation tools, 3-D space manipulation tools capable of flattening 3D space into 2D space and disrupting the quantum states of enemy lifeforms' neurons, headgear capable of repelling the beforementioned neuron quantum state disruption, digitally preserving rare life by converting Lifeforms into maths equations, weapons capable of generating gravity wells & creating spatial snares for trapping others, devices capable of stealing info by reading entageled qubits, 'Galactic Supercluster Civilizations', geometric weapons that can emit focused waves of energy to fold & bend the fabric of space to create portals, "Galaxy Group-controlling Species /Galaxy Cluster Civilizations", time-warping devices with the ability to put a confined area of space in stasis that nullifies the superhuman capabilities of everyone inside ot and negates all scifi tech's capabilities inside the field too, etc

[@gabbonoo]

@@shzarmai OP pseudoscience is too hard to write around. leaves you with a whole lot of "why didnt they just..."

[@regretgames5580]

From what I've heard there is something that completely dwarfs the Xeleeverse, and that is the Manifold verse with the Downstreamers.

[@pillarmenn1936]

It was made by the same dude who made the Xeelee Sequence so I'd believe it.

[@geonsilberlicht4632]

Worm/Parahumans wins, too. Contessa sees the Path to Victory, follows it flawlessly for however long she has to and achieves her goal, whatever it was. Khepri simply takes control of everyone all at the same time if she has to to achieve her goal whatever it was. Zion claps everything for fun because he felt like it. Or, more likely, hands out a bunch of powers and sits back with some popcorn.

[@papapalps2415]

None of this is accurate, no.

[@jexiagalleta4712]

check out The Weaver Option its a Worm/40k crossover definitely not them facing off but its still cool

[@DrawPG]

I think you forgot Settra. Just give him an ftl powered chariot and he can solo anything. He might die but he's coming back more pissed that the demons that was planning to mess with him in the ftl warp would speed him up while giving him upgrades to his chariot and giving him a spa day before he appear to send you to the afterlife and then go to the afterlife and slap you for the stupidity of challenging him

[@christiandauz3742]

End Times say other Settra is a Sigmarine in AOS while Archaon is a minor Chaos God

[@kaiserofkush]

average opponent dies while waiting for his herald to finish announcing Settra's titles

[@TheBenjiNebby]

​@@christiandauz3742no he is not

[@rodan9596]

⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠​⁠@@christiandauz3742 A quote from Manfred to Settrus “You lie, thief. You are not the king whose name you bear! If you were he, I would be slain already.”

[@stephencowie696]

Why would he even bother going solo... first thing he does he crump every ork warboss create a Settra Waargh - waargh power plus Settra = 40k down.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

Especially if you compare stuff like Armoured Core, the mass produced MT's are the equivalent of a dreadnought with a reaper autocannon. Those mass produced MT's can be dispatched by an Armoured Core in a matter of seconds, not even taking things like the fourth gen Nexts or prototype weapons like the Institute mechs into account. Some of the top AC pilots have mission success percentages in the 90s. The minimum caliber that an AC uses is fifty millimetres (upscaling 9mil by the same factor of an AC's height) and their laser weapons have all the pros of 40k plasma with the only drawback being that they overheat after constant use and need to cool down for a few seconds.

[@ASNS117Zero]

High tier ACs unironically, and reliably beat Imperator class titans 1v1. One of the early game "bosses" - that is, the Strider - in AC6 is at least an order of magnitude bigger than an Imperator class titan, and it gets brutalized by 621.

[@blizzardgaming7070]

​@@ASNS117Zero Not to mention stuff like Balteus, the Enforcer, Cell 240, Sol 644 and the Ice worm

[@dodojesus4529]

​@@ASNS117Zeroyeah the titan cant do shit, the ac dodges and even if a stray shot hits acs are tanky as fuck

[@dodojesus4529]

​@@blizzardgaming7070a moderately well managed iceworm would genuinely require exterminatus to do shit. We beat it because it was alone and restricted to defend an objective+ we had equipment and tech to disable its shields. If you werent going at it from the perspective of the humans in ac doing anything is just not possiblr

[@blizzardgaming7070]

@@dodojesus4529 since an AC was able to survive a high powered rail gun while entering a planet from orbit, anything short of overcharged plasma or melta shots wouldn't do much.

[@mickyflint]

for dead space remember that the markers affect all dead organic material and hives are full of violence and death even without war and invasion, not to mention the fact things like corpse starch is everywhere. It wouldn't matter what happens to the world so long as bodies keep dropping so unless the marker is destroyed there's no lose scenario for it. even orks can still be defeated.

[@spencerc4252]

What's worse is dead space 3 shows what happens when people engage in cannibalism during an outbreak ... And corpse starch

[@mickyflint]

@@spencerc4252 tbf it has to be necromorph meat but given how easy it is for markers signal to rez dead flesh and for injectors and flesh walls to spread it'd still be a massive threat.

[@spencerc4252]

@@mickyflint with a long enough exposure to the signal, corpse starch probably would just be necromorph meat, but true to all that regardless

[@mickyflint]

@@spencerc4252 yeah that's what I meant. Corpse starch and normal cannibalism would be "fine" but it would all get quickly tainted. Im not the best at phrasing.

[@spencerc4252]

@@mickyflint my bad. God, imagine it just sitting in a cabinet, someone opening the tib up and it just lunging down that poor saps throat

[@ArchRequiemD]

This reminded me of the conclusion I came to years ago about 40K verses matches. When there are similar levels of technology and magic 40K is likely to win by sheer scale. 40K is just larger than what most fiction tends to or imagines dealing with. This opinion is greatly informed from what I remember from reading Factpile VS. matches years ago. Their main posters and mods once asked people to stop suggesting 40K matches because either 40K won due to scale or lost due to not having enough universe breaking or God class characters and feats.

[@papapalps2415]

This isn't really even remotely accurate, though. It very, very strongly, infact, comes across as being mainly 'informed' by the Internet memes that infest the 40k fandom, as well as the massive amount of misinformation that tends to naturally be propagated online.

[@andrewnewell1142]

There’s definitely more OP settings, The Culture series springs to mind

[@myduckisonqauck7227]

Dr who, Macross, gun buster, marvel, manifold, ect.

[@thomaseasley2938]

And then you have the Xeelee

[@thelordz33]

Star Wars and Star Trek mogs it

[@berilsevvalbekret772]

Downstreamers

[@melikwalker296]

​@@thelordz33Star Wars Maybe Star Trek hell no

[@ethangonzales8230]

In my personal opinion, the star trek universe could reasonably do catastrophic amounts of damage purely because the federation can explore hundreds of worlds within 5 years, while the imperium could barely even react in time for the federation to outpace anything they could organize.

[@HolyApplebutter]

Ah, yes. The Imperium's greatest weakness. Logistics.

[@bthsr7113]

This is tot say nothing of all the pseudo gods, the Borg, the Q, and the Federation's most dangerous weapon of all. Technobabble.

[@raccoononymous]

​@bthsr7113 The Borg would probably be the greatest threat to thr 40k setting. If they can assimilate 40k warp tech and psykers you now have psychic borg to deal with who will never be corrupted since they are the most orderly existence imaginable, always united in thought and purpose. The Borg would fear being corrupted less than Chaos should fear being assimilated.

[@usernamealreadytaken9330]

The imperium of man is a carcass of once great empire though, most of the technology they have was a fraction of the age of technology, which is a golden age of humanity lasting about eight thousand years before Cybernetics uprising. Which arguably similar to Star Trek. So they have no chance on a technological whatsoever, the imperium probably still standing on a faith and duct tape.

[@christiandauz3742]

Chaos would cause the Q to commit suicide then corrupt the rest of Star Trek. Then Star Wars, Halo, Transformers, etc

[@IchHassePasswoerter]

Another thing that comes to mind... The cast of Bleach would utterly annihilate all opposition. Can you imagine YWACH in the Eye of Terror? The Warp would be devoid of daemons and Chaos Gods within the week.

[@bizbe4465]

Honestly i would put battletech at the level of the Tau. Pretty neat, smart, decent population size, enough resources to fund a war, and strong enough weapons to hit above their weight class. But they are both horribly out classed by the sheer "fuck you" power of literally every faction.

[@FattyMcFox]

Arthur Dent from hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy could beat the imperium. It is highly improbable that a lone un-augmented human in a bathrobe would beat the Imperium of mankind, so he is sure to do so, because the ship he is one works by making improbable things happen on command. He likely wouldn't know he was doing it, he just bumped a switch and the Ultramarines are turned into a set of expensive figures used in a wargame he never got into but used to see all the time down at the shops. Now how improbable is that?

[@UKCrazy007]

This now my head canon for how the game of 40K came to exist. God bless Douglas Adams.

[@QuentinofVirginia]

I'm glad that you brought up Super Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann because as far as I'm concerned at the end of TTGL, Simon essentially becomes greater than the Chaos gods simply because of how crazy broken the idea of spiral energy is.

[@seb24789]

Green Mecha Space Magic > Everything else.

[@sayerglasgow115]

The power of massive shoulder pads is no match for the power of epic sunglasses.

[@doubleoof7907]

Pitting gurenn lagann against 40k is like the whole “indomitable human spirit vs the cruel indifferent universe”

[@QuentinofVirginia]

@@doubleoof7907 It literally is. Like the whole point of the Anti-Spirals choosing to fight Team Dai-Gurren on their own terms with a mecha was to create despair to try and stifle the human spirit. Because he realized if he tries to curbstomp them, they'd just go full throttle on spiral energy.

[@sayerglasgow115]

@@QuentinofVirginia I thought that was a really neat plot point really. If the anti-spirals just put up what seemed to be an impossible obstacle, then all that would do is make team gurren power up more. The only way to actually win against spiral energy is to make it seem like they have a chance, then snatch that chance away at the last minute to try and make them despair. You can't overpower spiral energy. You literally can't. All you can do is try and make the people using it THINK you can overpower them.

[@bionodroid547]

the irritating part about 40k power scaling is that when someone compares on fictional civilization to it, the response is always “well technically in Warhammer there’s this many bajillion guard and a gorilla on tyranids and chaos exists so they die instantly” which is just fucking stupid. Much cooler to do it like deadliest warrior where we just figure out how many of x troop could beat y troop, or if it’s possible at all. But I suppose in that case you have to accept that your setting isn’t actually that special, it just has a bunch of factions in it

[@DanDaMaN95cov]

Ancient Humanity from Halo vs Golden Age of Technology would be interesting. Considering Ancient Humanity fought a war against the Forunners while holding off the flood at the same time.

[@outerheaven4384]

343 ruined HALO lore

[@KovoriaTheConquerer]

@@outerheaven4384I agree. Some of the 343 stories themselves are good, but overall, the mystery, ambiguity and little bits of info we could find were much better and atmospheric than laying out the entire story in rich detail.

[@wanderhillen2435]

There's a scene in a Culture novel where one of the warships tears through several hundred enemy warships in a few milliseconds while going at hundreds of times the speed of light. Several of the kills are the warship convincing the AI controlling the enemy warship to commit suicide. 40k machine spirits won't stand a chance lol. There's also a chapter in another book where a ship details the exact procedure they would use to eradicate the Tyranids (ie use your perfect FTL to stay out of range and tear apart their ships on a subatomic level from several lightyears away). The Culture could probably beat Dark Age of Technology humanity tbh, let alone anything that exists in 40k today.

[@EvelynNdenial]

when the very early culture very easily won a war that had casualties of 851 billion people, 91,215,660 starships some of which continent sized vessels, 14,334 planet sized orbitals, 53 planets and major moons, one ring world, and three dyson spheres. then other settings have a really hard time comparing at all. dark age of tech humanity would get curbstomped.

[@InputMiner]

Culture would beat most popular Sci-Fi settings just based on the merit of Minds being untethered, unrestrained, hyper AI. The difference in reaction and response time alone is just too great. A Mind would pick up sensor data, process the information, decide on a course of action and then act on it before a human crew member can even relay the info he's seeing to his superiors.

[@CTCParadox]

For the Culture you have to scale it down to something like "can a GSV solo the Imperium?" otherwise it's too curbstompy.

[@GMSTuatara]

Culture craft have been said to be capable of speeds up to and beyond 233,000 times the speed of light. That fight in the book took 0.11 seconds and covered billions of cubic kilometres of space

[@swimmingmide]

@@GMSTuatara Isn't that only for craft with no biological crew? Going that fast would still kill the "living" pasengers and force the craft to either back them up digitally and regrow their bodies or just let them die. I think the "Algebraist" book had gas giant planets having instant transport between them due to some gravety stuff.

[@heavyisdeadbyantoinedelak4712]

I've been getting into the setting of "Lancer" (a mech tabletop) and may as well say a piece on how well it could fare. Overall, it'd go more or less like BattleTech on surface level with a somewhat safer but vastly more limited FTL tech, but once you go into specifics with ow some of the tech and non human entities function, things spiral towards pyrrhic 40k victory to stalemate. If you take flavor text as hard fact, such as the Nelson frame having a passive .000001 ls charge or Morning cloak's singularity power plant, things get goofy. Then there are NHPs (non human persons) that aren't real AI, but impossible minds with literal infinite processing power, needing to be kept in check lest they cascade into something truly terrifying (i.e. the Osiris class, if allowed to grow unchecked, could delete what we perceive to be reality). and then there's RA, MONIST-1, a self created (literally) god of existence at least equivalent to a funny intact C'tan on the lower estimates of its power.

[@mirrorimage2866]

I think the reason wh40k is so great is because it covers a lot of different tastes. you have necrons with op tech that can just unexist a starsystem if they wish to, you have msgic psycher dudes, you have kinky stuff, you have disgusting stuff, you have cool boys stuff with the astartes, you have paladin stuff with the (no one expects the spanish) inquesition, you have individual lifes being awesome on pleasure worlds or absolutly horrifying when being turned into a servitor. you have funny orcs who do carraces and they paint stuff red cause red ones go faster. it's just very rich in detail, there is something for EVERYONE to like in warhammer 40k.

[@RevRaptor898]

Viltrumites are very strong but also low in numbers, there's like 50 of them. They would decimate most things in 40K but I'm pretty sure Necron Gauss Weapons would rip them apart. I could be wrong about that but I don't see anything about them that would resist such a horrific weapon.

[@bred269]

It’s like a quality over quantity kinda deal

[@l.c.7168]

Speaking of Gauss Weapons.... full power disruptors or phasers from Star Trek? They're Gauss Weapons. They disassemble the target on the molecular level. The common weapons of Star Trek, the peaceful noblebright sci-fi setting, are functionally horrifying necron weapons.

[@alexalexandrov9684]

There are fifty of them but they just need to do what geenstealers do and reproduce on one human world for a couple generations and soon they would have thousands of them if they did it for a century they’d be spread on many super important worlds no one knowing and they can create viltrimites with humans I’d imagine they could claim to be angels of the emperor with all their feats of strengths it would be an easy sell and maybe eventually start a civil war they maybe need 100k to maybe a million max to be a massive threat to the galaxy

[@kakyoin9688]

Only low in number because they were such a menace a super virus had to constructed specifically to target Viltrumites. Virus killed like 99% of their population.

[@jonathanathor117]

I remember during the battle of mark and conquest, atom eve died, came back to life in god mode (all inhibitors to her power just turned of for temporary) and did tried to 1 shot shot the old viltrimite in the way a gauss weapon would. Unfortuately, it mostly destroyed his skin and some muscles. It would need to take alot, like alot of concentrated gauss weapon fire power to kill 1 viltrimite.

[@thecartooncollector1302]

Speaking of Star Wars vs 40k, theres a channel called AFanWithTooMuchTime who has an audio drama series on the concept. And its actually incredibly well written! He does a good job giving star wars an even fight without nerfing 40k. I highly recommend it. Theres like 60 plus episodes all at an hour or so length. Its a shame it doesnt have as much traction as it should!

[@zegawar1594]

Before I rant let me clear something. I'm interested in this audio drama. I just have some heavy things against it. I will keep watching it because the guy put effort into it, I won't dislike it cause this guy is actually doing something and getting people behind him. But now my rant. I would say he doesn't really give star wars a chance. I've watched the whole audio drama from start to finish and in one. He pretty much says the CIS was wiped out. You know the people with quadrillion droids and fleets with it. Yeah the capital was siege and no one was able to help. Also the republic has thrown everything at the battle of Axium. And he said everything. So far 2 dreadnought on the republic side are dead and omega is saying their suffering massive causalites. Now let's put this into perspective it isn't the combined republic fleets vs the combined empire fleets. It's the whole republic fleets vs a few empire fleets. The republic looses. If they come out with a price victory and somehow wipe out the empire fleets. Well they lost 75% of all their fleet assets. That leave only the pdf left. Which the empire can sweep since they were able to wipe the cis and Axium's psf forces that were on the planet. Sw vs 40k is a 40k wank fest. The story could be leagues better than what it is. But the guy is going in saying 40k triumphs. And that's the default. For example the clone troopers in the newest episode were fighting space marine and winning. But nope turns out that it was dead clones piloting robotic space marine armor. Which is the biggest driving rug pull. There was no previous talk about the clones being used like this no hint about it. He saw he wrote that the clones killed an actually space marine before hand and dramtically corrected himself. But for me the worst example was a dreadnought marched out in front of the republic army and faced tanked everything. Railgun shots, rockets, blasters, energy beams, everything. Tanked it like it was nothing. In lore dreadnought died to tau railguns which is the tech level that star wars is on. How could it take all that stuff even if it's a special dreadnought and not get cratered.

[@DiddyKongsTrashCollection2001]

​@@zegawar1594hes actually trying to give star wars an implied long term pyrrhic win, ironically some 40k fans still think he's nerfing the imperium

[@zegawar1594]

@DiddyKongsTrashCollection2001 well it's hard to see a long term win if the two major powers get blasted so hard they turn into Iraq. I mean if he's trying to go for the empire fall apart because of trying to occupy a galaxy that is truly actively trying to fight against them. I can see that being a good story that can come up but by his writing pace it feels like the heat death of the universe will occur before he gets to the first neo-republic uprising. But yeah I can get 40k fans being upset. They really like to over powerscale their guys. I mean GW don't make it east to powerscale where in one book space marines fricking body slam demons. But in another 2 chaos infused super space marines get killed by a commisar. Granted said commisar is Cain but so far no lore has come out saying he's anything but a baseline human.

[@DiddyKongsTrashCollection2001]

@@zegawar1594 no I mean some were wanting a 40k steamroll win. And yeah the pace is glacial, there's a CIS remnant faction led by the '03 series Grievous that was set up but that was like 30 parts agk

[@zegawar1594]

@DiddyKongsTrashCollection2001 yeah and og gracious might be a beast but unless he starts mass producing like sovereign ssd ships in mass he ain't gonna win. Gonna make em bleed but not win. Also this is steamroller but like the austinnpowers steamroller but in slow motion.

[@drkreuzer670]

As a half life fan, it shames me that you didn't mention the combine, they have the same tech as 40k (minus local teleportation), its just that they have universes under their control meaning they'd slowly take over the setting if left unchecked. Just imagine the combine being able to teleport from one planet to another in the same universe? they'd be flooded!

[@emojothejojo]

People only say that they are weak because we fight against a shadow of their shadow

[@OK-yy6qz]

The interesting thing is while 40K would "technically" win against something like star wars that's only in a scenario where for some reason every 40K faction starts working together. If they don't then none of the Factions have any spare strength Left to fight something like the Empire without getting overtaken in the process. Least of all the Imperium. Meanwhile it would be totally in Character for Someone like the Anti-Monitor or Darkseid to just invade the 40K universe and start destroying it or taking over it entirely.

[@dreamypizza8458]

yeah, star wars has many technological shortcomings for 40K standards but factions like the empire and CIS make up for it with "fuck you we have a functioning logistics corp and more canon fodder than we know what to do with. oh also our shit doesn't break down every fucking minute" so as long as they don't get ganked. they can absolutely survive