The Success and Failures of Date Windows on Watches (Cyclops, Pointer, Oversize, Skeleton)

[@ID-Guy]

IDGuy Store: teespring.com/stores/the-idguy-store Channel Support - Patreon: www.patreon.com/idguy Latest Releases: kzbin.info/door/zf6rqsEBni5G2TSevD6F4Afeatured Follow me on Instagram: instagram.com/id.guy/

[@alexanderlehmann4653]

I heard the date position at 3 became a thing for the reason if long sleeves cover up half of your watch the date window would still be visible.

[@ID-Guy]

Ah! Brilliant! I would never have thought of that (being a leftie) That makes so much sense! Thank you for this Alexander

[@edo7052]

Good point 👍

[@vincent67239]

That’s a great idea for a leftie watch-crown *and* date on the left side. Only modification needed on the movement is just printing the numbers upside down so that they’re right side up in a 9 o’clock date window.

[@BrittPearceWatches]

Gah!! Such a thought provoking video! Loved this. My fav date window I’ve ever seen is on the Octa Lune!

[@joker14n]

Nobody else shows the attention to detail of the specifics of watches that you provide here. And as a person who has recently discovered a true passion for the beauty that watches can symbolize..i can only say “thank you”. You are providing thought provoking concepts that noone else is close to. Bravo !!

[@ID-Guy]

Truth be told Cary, I do it for my sanity. Nothing would bore me more than talking about the same watch brands again and again and again on a weekly basis ;) These thought pieces always suck me back into the hobby and I just hope they resonate with someone out there. It really means a lot that you can take the time to watch these and I can't thank you enough! Have an excellent start to your weekend!

[@frankkami4286]

the Breitling date at 5:28 is so perfect , just wow

[@ID-Guy]

Isn't it incredible? The new Chronomats blew me away a few weeks back... and the date window made me think "Yes. yes, this is fantastic" Great eye there Frank ;)

[@chazfromtheburg]

You always help me appreciate some aspect of horology or design that I would otherwise miss. Another great episode! 👏👊

[@ID-Guy]

Ah Chaz, these are always fun to throw together (and keep me engaged too) I can't think of anything worse than making a video on the same watch brands every week ;) Have a great start to your weekend, sir!

[@theenavybluemonster]

I prefer: 1. No date 2. Oversized date if I ever could afford a watch that has it 3. 6 position with color matched wheel preferably OR pointer date depending on the watch 4. Sub dial depending on the watch 5. 3 position with color matched wheel preferably I won’t do a 4 position for sure. Almost definitely not at 4:30 position. Only watch I’ve seen that has this that might possibly work is the Sinn 556a where the date is upright and not at an angle and the wheel is color matched.

[@ID-Guy]

Love this! Thank you for sharing some bullet points on this topic. Like you, my No.1 is a No-date and the 6 Position / Oversize tie equally for second. Ah, this hobby never gets tiresome ;)

[@EssenceOfTrance]

I also don't like a date at 4:30 but the Zenith Chronomaster Sport does it pretty well IMO. For a daily wear I would always like a date window, mainly at 6 o'clock like the Seamaster or a pointer date. A pointer date is very classy IMO.

[@theenavybluemonster]

@@EssenceOfTrance I love pointer dates if it fits with the design. I love my older Oris Big Crown pointer date with the acrylic crystal and half moon pointer. It’s beautiful. But I don’t think I can do the 4:30 date. I’ve never had one so I don’t know for sure but don’t like it enough to get a watch with it to find out. I’m ok with that.

[@EssenceOfTrance]

@@theenavybluemonster Oris has really great watches with pointer dates. I will get one some day for sure.

[@MrAZweistein]

IMO Glashütte Original has the best execution of an oversized date window. Especially on a PanoMaticLunar.

[@ID-Guy]

Also loved that first piece that opened the video (can't recall its name off the top of my head) - They are doing serious business with their date windows. Definitely ones we should be following more closely. Thank you for the comment, Mr Zweitstein ;)

[@felixfourcolor]

@@ID-Guy Senator Observer

[@ID-Guy]

@@felixfourcolor That's the one. Went out of my way to find the reference. Gawd... it makes me weep...

[@treykasia127]

GO indeed executes date windows very well. I'm also a fan (owner) of Moser windows.

[@TwentyOne_Five]

Panorama Datum on glahutte original is excellent. Don’t like 4pm date windows.

[@felixs.7243]

Truly great video. I wanted this kind of video discussing all the date complications critically for a very long time. To the topic about pointer dates, if I recall correctly, the Rolex DateJust markets itself as the the first watch with only the date. But we clearly know, that the pointer date, which is also just the date, emerged decades before the Rolex DateJust, for example the Oris big crown pointer date. This is somewhat curious to me.

[@ID-Guy]

Rolex is the King of Marketing (especially how we've seen the the brand evolve since the 50's). They'll be the first to mention their invention of "Self-Winding" "Gasket Technology" and virtually every other area. But we've discovered more and more that they paid for many of these elements to add to their watches over time ;)

[@AlonNahary]

Great cover of the topic! I'm from the no-date camp, as I switch watches every couple of days, so I like the easy setup. I build watches from parts, and it is not so easy these days to find interesting dials with no date.

[@ID-Guy]

I was so close to talking about my love of no-dates and how everyone should be onboard BUT there must be at least 5 videos of mine dedicated to the topic by now. Setting and forgetting is the way to go ;)

[@impexRQ]

Glashütte and A Lange & Sohne are definitely the masters designing date complications

[@ID-Guy]

Absolutely Spot-on, Rodrigo. Journe has opened my eyes too (because of this video) but wow...the two brands from Glashutte are killing it...

[@theartstraveler]

Nomos rules!

[@blueshirtbuddah1665]

Another outstanding and informative video IDGuy. I am a big fan of the date at 4:30. It’s there when you want it and not when you don’t.

[@ID-Guy]

An absolute pleasure as ever, sir! I'd love to probe you on your thoughts around the Cyclops fitted to a Sub - and I know you're partial ;)

[@anthonystevens8683]

Thank you IDGuy for providing a very well balanced review of the type, position and even the colour of the date complication. My personal view is that I look for symmetry in a dial, I'm not really that bothered about a date complication but if it's not in the right place or executed in am elegant manner it would put me off. The date a six is my preferred location for a date window, it's more discreet and I can find it if I need to. The date at three depending on the dial is not my first choice, I have a Tudor Pelagos with the date at three but somehow it has a balance as the background colour is the same as the nine hour marker. The larger date complications are super readable but somehow draw the reader of the dial to the date and not the time in my humble opinion, again my preference for the location of a larger date would be on the vertical plain between the twelve and three. I'll be honest I'm not a huge fan of a cyclops window as once again it imbalances the dial and the crystal and draws the viewers eye unstoppable towards it. For me the best date display is not the window type but a pointer that is never compromised by the minute hand being in the way of the date window at certain times. For those who dislike an extra hand that moves but once a day I think Nomos has come up with an interesting option with its colour coded cutouts on the chapter ring. I think the original three position of the date windows biggest advantage is that for those who wear a watch in the left wrist only need to slide the cuff partly away from the hand to read it...... unless that pesky minute hand is quarter past the hour. Apologies for the long post but the date complication is one of the first items that I consider for a future watch purchase. Yes I know that probably makes me a tad odd in this day and age but I have to appreciate the whole watch, not just the spec sheet.

[@ID-Guy]

Thank you for this Anthony! We are the same, taking in the entire watch first before critting the where the date is placed. But there are some guidelines for us to follow ;) You also mentioned the sliding cuff for the 3 position, didn't even register in my head that it would be an advantage (since I'm a lefty, nothing comes easy) haha! Thank you again for sharing your thoughts around this area, brother!

[@wagsbass]

Lange has the best implementation of the date complication. Large enough to read without a Cyclops and the instant change is so 2021.

[@jztouch]

I don’t know what it is about the large date windows I like so much but it’s one of my favorite features on watches in general. Hope I can afford one someday!

[@WatcheswithDennis]

Excellent video, this articulated a lot of pros and cons I have felt with dates but lacked the skill to put into words.

[@alonnach]

What a great topic and what a great review, just when I think there are no topics left to discuss on watches. you didn’t miss any option and brought the best examples to show. Well done! For me It is a combination of aesthetics, balance and sometimes what derives from the imbalance, not that it is wrong, in the contrary it gets my attention and makes me find the harmony created by the misplacement like in the Lange 1 or in the sub dial of the Jaeger le Coulter réserve de marche emphasizing that the date itself is a complication, showing how much of the month has been used and without damaging the dial. I used to think that a watch had to have a date, almost a basic, in time I searched for the more complex dials but now I am drawn more towards the more simple balance I find in the no date faces.

[@evanspivack2714]

Great video! I haven't seen a dedicated vid on this subject before. Thank you for another educational and entertaining experience!

[@sluny1]

Just purchased the new Tudor Black Bay Chrono Panda. The date is at the 6 O'clock position. Its perfect there and the watch overall is very well balanced and appealing! Thank you for another great video!

[@MrNt1402]

Damasko has an interesting implementation, where they offset the day and date windows just under the 3 o clock position and closer to the center of the dial. Also Bell & Ross with the rounded aperture for the date at 4:30

[@ID-Guy]

Nicely pointed out by ID Kline, Movement size can also make or break the presentation ;) Thank you for this! I'd like to look further into B&R dates later

[@ID-Guy]

@@IDKline Nailed it. I was asked the question earlier about why numerals can't be bigger on many of these "mainstream" models and it really is all down to movement / case size ;)

[@meson183]

Sinn's EZM 3 and 3F also place the date window at the 3:30 position. In the case of the EZM 3, the date wheel features red digits on a black wheel to make it even more discreet.

[@tippykaffu4047]

GO's panorama date is state of the art date function. No one can convince me otherwise

[@ID-Guy]

Also mentioned a handful of times already. GO are killing the date game with how they're addressing them. So unique! Loved that opening watch (Can't recall it's name off the top of my head) Thank you as always Tippy!

[@impexRQ]

Absolutely… even if I’m a Rolex fan boy … best date in the market is done by GO (just look the the Glashütte SeaQ Panorama Datum) piece of Art and A Lange

[@tippykaffu4047]

GO panorama date reverse?

[@ID-Guy]

​@@impexRQ GO Senator Observer ;)

[@ID-Guy]

@@tippykaffu4047 Found it, it's the "Senator Observer" so beautiful it makes me weep...

[@michaelr21]

Definitly a important topic. I dont usually need a date complication - and therefore find it mostly disturbing when vintage reissues have a date window, especially if it does not fit the design. This has also deterred me from buying a watch more than once.

[@atoast9768]

Another great vid. I might be wrong but I assumed the date was originally on 3 o'clock because of geometry - you are dividing a circular disc into 31 equal sectors, and a double digit number is usually written longer horizontally than it is vertically. So if you place the number parallel to the radius of the date wheel, you can make it bigger than it would be if it was placed perpendicularly

[@ID-Guy]

Someone mentioned earlier that it had to do with reading the date easily even if you sleeve was covering the watch (since it would be one of the first elements you see on the dial) But I really, really don't know. Geometry could be the big factor ;) And thank you as always for the comment, brother. Date's will continue to be a slippery slope

[@AbstractMan23]

Yes, that makes perfect sense - and seems the most obvious reason.

[@brettgosper6003]

Great observations agin ID guy... I'm glad someone is pointing out some of these issues with the poor date window executions. Good typography and basic GUI principles are seem to go missing - even on quite expensive / respected pieces.

[@ID-Guy]

The video should have been much longer, looking into typography more (maybe going past 20 minutes) There is so much to cover in this area and I'm sure another part to this series will be in the works in the future. Would be quite fun to pinpoint brands too ;) Thanks a lot for taking the time to watch the clip Brett!

[@scottanderson9656]

Love the video. I wish there were more quality watches without the date complication as it's something I don't use and usually feels awkward. That said I do like the date pointer and think 6 is the best location as it seems to be the least problematic to my eye.

[@ID-Guy]

Didn't want this clip to turn into ANOTHER rambling about me and my "preferring watches without dates" but I'm the same as you Scott ;) The date really needs to be an element on a dial to get me invested (or very well hidden)

[@stevejukic8166]

Thank you for this video which its the first one with an objective look how appearance of a dial is destroyed by a misplaced date window on a beautiful watch

[@ID-Guy]

Luckily I didn't share any gross examples. But it also feels like we are becoming a lot more critical about dates on watches (which is amazing) Thank you for taking the time to watch the clip Steve!

[@enzogorlomi5300]

The way Nomos Tangente does it is also very neat way to do it id say!

[@ID-Guy]

Great point Enzo. There was a mention about the Neomatik earlier and you're spot on, they're using just the right kind of restraint when throwing dates on their dials

[@georgehave]

Love it when you make me think. I never use the date window on my watches. Never use hacking either. I am sure that may have caused a ripple in the force. Of the types you covered the only one I like is the pointer. The dial is less cluttered.

[@ID-Guy]

It's a thought provoking subject. It even forces me to be more critical looking into these pieces. But like you, I'm all about no-dates, less hassle, less clutter ;) At the same time, I do find it fascinating to see how great some watches can look with dates when they're actually considered and "planned". Thank you as always George! I hope you have an excellent start to your weekend!

[@BastienKoert]

I thought the one on the Sinn U50 was brilliant. The colours used made it blend in so well, I had to look a few times to actually see it. I think this is one of the most seamless date complications I've seen

[@ID-Guy]

Exactly why I included it (and I'm really not a fan of date windows at 3 given the choice) Such a fantastic looking model in so many ways! Great minds think alike Bastien ;)

[@andreaiacolina]

Great video, I really appreciated this content. I'd really love to add a pointer date and a big date to my collection at some point.

[@ID-Guy]

My pleasure Andrea. And funny, I was so, so close to pulling the trigger on a pointer date... but then hopped onto something else (should be debuted in a week or two) - If I can make any suggestion, had hand's on time with Big Date (Lange's) and they are amazing... If a date complication is what you're after, there really isn't a substitute for those large windows ;)

[@stevecraig2561]

Love this & I only buy watches with a date. Love the original Speedmaster & Daytona, but will never own one until they have a date.

[@Ossory88]

Great video. Couldnt agree more with you on your take on the date on six. If the dial has nothing else to offer stylistically, it's a missed opportunity to have something going on on the watch.

[@ID-Guy]

Your Lange just covers it perfectly. They simply cannot do wrong, can they? There's something so magical about all of their designs. Thanks for sending in your Sinn U50! Can't wait to discuss it on Saturday and hear what the audience thinks of the contrasting dial

[@Ossory88]

@@ID-Guy I have the stream on my calendar! ;-) looking forward

[@dgbucko]

Another great vid BTW. You are knocking them out the park mate.

[@neelsengupta662]

Very interesting, @idguy, a very thoughtful discussion and well analysed as always

[@xacket1]

I wonder what your thoughts are referring to the date positioning on the Longines Spirit 42mm, with the number three cut in half. It seems to me that given that it's the same movement as the 40mm and the dial is larger, the date window is just closer to the center and they put half of the number three only so the dial doesn't look empty and it just looks weird. On the other hand, the date display on the 40mm is perfectly placed in my opinion and complements the dial and overall proportionts of the watch. Great video man, greetings from Chile!

[@ID-Guy]

Wow that 3 cutaway looks strange! Thank you for pointing this out to me! I only focused on the chrono and you'll be seeing another chrono from Longines debuted on the channel in the next few weeks ;) But you're right, leaving it empty would've been a mistake. It's so difficult to find a balance in this area. But thank you so much from the comment, brother!

[@ID-Guy]

@@IDKline The secret is to just not include dates on watches ;) You'll see my new pickup during Saturday's show... Aaand it a Longines (without a date)

[@russell996]

Great thoughts on what seems a simple concept but is actually pretty complex. 🥃

[@ID-Guy]

And there were so many other date complications that weren't looked at... It's pretty bizarre how deep this rabbit hole goes. BUT it looks like we are becoming more critical of Dates on watches (which is a bonus) ;)

[@bauernopfer87]

I am a sucker for a good date window. The trend in recent years to put it at the 6 o'clock position is very welcomed. My personal favorite might be the AL&S panorama date window at the 4 o'clock. There's something to that asymmetry and the non-alignemt with the indices that attracts me.

[@ID-Guy]

The brands from Glashutte are killing it. So many have already mentioned how they love GO and Lange just because of how dynamic they are with their date placements. Look up the "Senator Observer" it brings tears to my eyes! Thank you for the comment, brother

[@garycollard1981]

Very interesting video, some great looking watches on show. I do wear a watch with a date for work but happy to wear one without at other times. In my collection I have some watches with the date window at 3, a couple at 4:30, one at 6 and one at 12 & 6 (a combination analogue/digital). I also have 2 with date on sub dials which I really like. So date wise I have a few variations and the only one I'm not so keen on is the 4:30 position.

[@bernardocourrege6283]

Is there any harm done if an automatic stops (power runs down) during a day/date change? For example, a Seiko skx, which takes 5 hours to complete the whole day/date change.

[@ID-Guy]

Very good question Bernardo! I'm most definitely not a mechanic in this area but I'm assuming since it takes so long for the date to change (over 5 hours) it must mean that the spring tension is slowly released through the gearing. So if the process had to stop, it shouldn't effect the movement. Complete guess from my side though ;)

[@bernardocourrege6283]

@@ID-Guy Thnaks! I’m also guessing it’s not a problem. Imagine having to worry about your watch unwinding while it’s changing the date every time you set it down. My OCD wouldn’t handle it very well. 😐

[@bernardocourrege6283]

@@IDKline Thank you!

[@Lpin101]

Any thoughts on Nomos’s date wheel on their update model? It’s a unique way of telling the date and it doesn’t obstruct the dial

[@ID-Guy]

The Neomatiks! Should have featured it (and I've been asked already in the comments) It looks brilliant... a modern reinterpretation of a pointer date that feels very futuristic. All german brands seem to be killing the date game! Thanks for the question Calvin

[@WatchMeEDC]

Great vid as always but cleanest watches designs will always be sans-date windows. No-Date FTW! 🙌🏻

[@ID-Guy]

You and me both, brother. Since there are at least 5 videos dedicated to the subject on the channel, I had to mix it up this time around ;)

[@philipsavage114]

For me, the ideal solution would be a dial on which the date-window could be opened and closed. A window which can't be closed is actually just a hole.

[@ID-Guy]

That would be a great answer in this area. I'm sure there are examples of watches (like jump hours) that do this? There was a watch I remember from a while back that had an almost venetian blind effect to how you read the time, maybe a system like that could be implemented. Great suggestion Phillip, thank you as always!

[@russell996]

@@ID-Guy Check out Maitres Du Temp pieces 🥃

[@ID-Guy]

@@russell996 You know your stuff, sir! The "Chapter 3" is a match for @Philip Savage

[@treykasia127]

@@russell996 I second...

[@AbstractMan23]

Wow, has that ever been done before? I like that idea!

[@BittersweetMayhem]

Hello what is the model of the omega constellation chronometer? Sorry i am new to this. Thanks

[@djfisco]

I don't know why, but i like the way Seiko do their classic framed date@3. The proportions are the same for 60 years or more and it just fits so nicely, to me at least. Many other watches have nice date implementations as well, too many to list them... The date is a simple but interesting complication because both the engineering and the design have to come together for it to do it's job properly, it requires thought to work, many cheap watches suffer from misplaced and improperly sized date windows because they just fit a generic movement into a case and have to work with what they get, so the watches just look wrong. Nice take on the matter btw. Could you do a day/date comparison sometime in the future perhaps? It's a step above compared to just the date and even trickier to pull off right, but has produced some very quirky and clever and weird variations over the years. Early Seiko Weekdaters with unframed day at 6 or the Sealion DX are my favorite.

[@pilotstyle123]

What I dont understand is why people arent using the datewindow as a creative opportunity, who says it has to be a rectangle? what if the window mimicked shapes from the case or the hands? I feel like there is a well of possibilities here and no one is tapping in

[@ID-Guy]

Brilliantly put! Just the idea of circular date displays have so much potential to help soften the presentation!! Thank you for the thought provoking comments as always, sir!

[@ID-Guy]

@@IDKline We can make an exception and bump up the size of the watch & movement to around 48mm's ;)

[@MrRytrow]

I think Bell and Ross executes the 4 o’clock (really 4:30) date window very well. It’s small which some may find challenging, but unobtrusive and the numbers are vertically rather that radially oriented which I think makes it look cleaner and more integrated.

[@nukie404]

Excellent topic. I actually like the 4.5 window placement too, it breaks up the dial nicely and adds a little flair. I have a quartz with a big date and that's pretty interesting too. All in all I'm fine with the date window as long as there's some semblence of thought behind it. It's just a shame that with a lot of cheaper watches, it's just kind of there because they're using a movement with a date wheel (and thus the window being 10mm in from the edge of the dial). - Han

[@ID-Guy]

I feel like we are all becoming more critical of were dates are being placed (thankfully) and some of the big names have really stepped up their game in this arena BUT we need to see more from other mainstream brands. A little bit of care goes a long way ;) Thank you for this as always Han!

[@Nefville]

I would love to see someone like Moser do a time only dial, without indicies/ hour markers (a concept dial) and have a date, power reserve and smaller time display with indexes and hour markers on the back.

[@ID-Guy]

Was just thinking about how effective a date comp would be on the back hidden with the power reserve ;) It's just a greater incentive to check the back of your watch, I like it! Nicely said as always, brother!

[@alexandersmith855]

I'm probably in the minority that boosts 4:30 date windows. I think it works by leveraging radial balance or symmetry (why 10&2 is visually pleasing or many elapsed time bezels have full scale register for 20 minutes then increments of 5) with the dial's rectilinear balance (Arabics or different plots at 12,3,6,9) A thought on color mixing day-date wheels at 3: it would be interesting to me if manufacturers with in-house movements ever mix use of black day and white date wheels on the same movement. It would allow the day to blend into a dark dial and the date would balance with the indices or numerals. Have seen a Seiko modder do it, and it looks better than a stark white bar at 3 on a black dial.

[@ID-Guy]

You'd think that roulette date windows would be more popular in the industry but surprisingly they're not utilised .Very good point. Nicely thought out point for the date at the 4.5 position too! Ah, dig it. Thank you for these Alexander

[@watchingfinance1234]

Great insights as ever, thank you IDGuy

[@ID-Guy]

Always a blast putting these together, brother. I notice that since we're both right wrist wearers, we probably see dates differently. Someone mentioned how the date at 3 is the easiest for them to see under a sleeve because it's the first portion of the watch they see. Crazy right? Didn't even cross my mind

[@koolpep]

4:30 also doesn’t interfere with the lume on dive watches.

[@jean-jacquesbaur303]

Aniother great presentation! Thank you very much.

[@ID-Guy]

My pleasure Jean! Always love putting these thought pieces together. Thank you for taking the time to check out the clip!

[@timelord6540]

I like the date at the 6, but if at 3 why not integrate it into the indices and make that of equal size to the one at the 9 position

[@ID-Guy]

Should've gone more into the size of the windows, but I think there is a limit to what they can do with the size of text in relation to the movement / case sizes too. The haute names can be a bit more adventurous in this area, but many of the mainstream manufacturers obviously aren't that driven to fit them on the dials better (makes for another great talking point) Thank you for this Time Lord!

[@AbstractMan23]

The Tudor Pelagos does that.

[@shaunpatrick8345]

That's a beautiful Longines at 3:58. I didn't know there was a chronograph version; my memory of the range consists almost entirely of the abomination of a date window in the range's base model. The larger one had a malformed 3 to accommodate the window, and the smaller just had a gap. Both looked terrible!

[@ID-Guy]

It was asked of me to look at the model with the chopped off 3...such a strange move from them. A great compromise is finding the Longines chrono's without dates to save us the hassle ;)

[@russellharris5072]

The only two tolerable date complications for me are the Oris pointer date and the JLC Master Ultra Thin Reserve de Marche.The Reverso you featured is an absolute disaster when compared to the Reverso mono face with Arabic numerals which is the only watch I would be willing to spend that much money on.Simplicity is still a winner...........................

[@ID-Guy]

Loved the clutterdness of the Reverso - deliberately featured it to show how messy they can get ;) But you're right, given all the options, I'd also be one who would go without a date on my watch. It just saves us the hassle. Thank you for the comment as always Russell!

[@HarryJoiner]

A few years ago I gifted my wife a Rolex Datejust with a “Roulette Date” and Arabic numbers. Man, that's a great watch. (She picked it out.)

[@ID-Guy]

A roulette date wheel... talk about adding flair to a watch dial. Why don't more brands do the same in this area? Love it. Thank you for the comment Harry!

[@HarryJoiner]

@@ID-Guy we both look forward to the red "even" dates. we had no idea when we bought it, but immediately loved it.

[@bloodymarvelous4790]

After the time, the date is the most important information on the dial. If you like it to be hidden, then I would argue that you'd be equally as happy with a time only watch. Since the date is 2 numbers wide for 2/3 of the time, a date window should be wider than it is tall, making the 3 o'clock position the best choice for most watches. At the 6 o'clock position, the date window is usually taller than wide, making for a difficult to read display or a bunched up look. Putting at an angle at the 4 o'clock to 5 o'clock position, is a decent compromise when you have multiple sub-dials. The only thing that beats Annual or perpetual calendars are often put in sub-dials because of the enormous amount of information that needs to be presented, but it also makes them very hard to read. I love the large date windows of the A. Lange & Söhne watches, but I think Patek Phillipe has perfected the presentation on the 5236P. That is by far the most elegant implementation of a full date display on an analogue watch which can be yours for a mere $121,000.

[@jamessymington2466]

Whilst the cyclops is an iconic part of the Rolex look the one watch where it is utterly awful is the SkyDweller. It badly disrupts the symmetry of the GMT ring and is just clumsy and artless.

[@ID-Guy]

I find it strange that they don't mix up the formula (like they've done with the Sea-Dweller) and choose which watches to add the cyclops to. But hey, we mere mortals can't give them ideas ;) Nicely said James and thank you

[@youngalwyn1124]

I’d like to see the SkyDweller redesigned to situate the date window at the twelve o’clock position.

[@jamessymington2466]

@@youngalwyn1124 Yes - with no cyclops and not with a white background

[@vmarsch]

Coincidentally I was just thinking about this. It's a tragedy when an otherwise great design is spoiled by a badly designed date window. It's kept me away from a few watches I would otherwise want to own. The Omega Aqua Terra, for one. It looks like the index at 6 was pried off and left a square hole. The IWC Mark XVIII looks like a knockoff of itself made with a parts-bin movement with the wrong diameter. Very frustrating to see.

[@ID-Guy]

Oh no... the IWC's... excellent point... I was just looking up the XVIII the other day and felt so compelled to remove the date. BUT there are gems out there that have mercifully been made without dates. The trick is the hunt (I'm definitely becoming more and more critical of dials over time) Thank you for this, brother

[@khairulhelmihashim2510]

Seiko 5 SNK809 has a great day-date complication integration to the dial overall aesthetics, despite being a budget automatic watch.

[@DarthJabba504]

Damasko DA47 has the best offset day date execution I've ever seen. Highly functional while maintaining dial symmetry.

[@maximilianweber1181]

Amazing content

[@ID-Guy]

Thank you so much Maximillian. These thought pieces always keep me interested an engaged, there's always something else out there to pick up & learn ;) Thank you for taking the time to watch the clip!

[@jameshoward9700]

I also prefer 4.30! It preserves the lume and dial symmetry on a sports watch. 6 would be my second choice. Cyclops are ugly, but useful for ageing eyes, as are the oversize digitals from Lange and GO. Designed for the audience that could traditionally afford the watches. Pointers and sub-dial pointers can be hard to read, but look great. Props to JLC for their jump pointer to avoid the moonphase - class. But date windows typify the dilemma of watch design: aesthetics vs practicality; the watch on the roll or on the wrist.

[@markpercival2619]

I don’t real,y need a date complication, but if it’s there either make a feature of it or hide it away. I don’t like skeletonised watches at all, so that’s out as an option for me. 4,30 can work, sometimes. 6 is OK as long as it doesn’t intrude on the Indices. Date wheels/circles at 6 or 9 are difficult to read for me these days. I do like what Nomos are doing with the perimeter date indicated by a contrasting highlighted colour and the German big date on higher end ALS and GO watches to name but a few.

[@LaFritePerreGoat]

Bell & ross are based on sinn design but improved it on this point, they do the best 4oclock date window. Its round so don't break lines of the watch and its crooked on the date wheel so you don't need to turn your head to read it.

[@ID-Guy]

I'm going to look more into how B&R does their date displays this evening (you're not the first to mention this and I'm very interested) Thank you for the comment, brother!

[@LaFritePerreGoat]

@@ID-Guy always a pleasure to help! Enjoy 😉

[@kwongsenglee9524]

I might have to disagree with one having to “crank your neck” while viewing the date at the 4.30 position. I think it’s the most ergonomic position to take a quick look at the date based on your arm position, much like the way the Vacheron Constantin American 1921 is designed. Unless of course if, like me, a leftie, you wear your watch on your right hand. In which case you have to more than crank your neck.

[@thehrethgir679]

I wish more attainable watchmakers would use the oversized date complication. My old eyes are having issues reading the little number down past the dial sometimes!

[@tim2468]

Great commentary.

[@chrisstevenson2622]

I was told the date window is put at the 3 position due to most people wear their watch on their left wrist and with the date at the three position you can look at the date without uncovering the watch with your sleeve.

[@CH-yp5by]

Where should date windows go you ask? It depends on the type of watch and unless made to look like a real stand out feature then they should be subtle s possible while maintaining legibility and in an area to maintain balance.

[@ID-Guy]

Better words than I could have ever said C H, thank you for this! The idea of "subtly" and "placement" doesn't seem to work very well with many of these manufacturers today sadly.

[@CH-yp5by]

@@ID-Guy true they still have much to learn, check out the Sinn 556i for a great example of sublty or the Omega Seamaster 2254.50.00

[@mr_watchaddict3146]

My Explorer, once again, does not rise to such triviality and irrelevance🍷😌

[@ID-Guy]

You're not wrong, Mark ;) We didn't need this to turn into another "IDGuy doesn't like date windows on his watches if he can avoid them" video though haha! Such triviality...

[@mr_watchaddict3146]

@@ID-Guy True true! I actually was very impressed with the topic. So much watch content on here nowadays but you still come up with the heavy hitters that nobody has addressed! The no-date thing can be quite annoying actually, but for a beautiful dial it’s worth it. Merry Christmas. 😉

[@ID-Guy]

@@mr_watchaddict3146 You'll really like my most recent pickup. It's legible AF, it's an automatic chrono, it's dateless... and try as I might, after 2 months of wearing it, I cannot fault the dial... going to be a blast to cover. Thank you as always, sir!

[@blainecole5452]

Cheers for that.

[@ID-Guy]

Such a pleasure Blaine! This one really made me think and it was great!

[@Narakera]

Only IDGuy can make a content like this!

[@ID-Guy]

Thank you so much, man...I'm the only one who is mad enough ;)

[@watchinout1897]

Excellent!!

[@mannyfernandez1713]

Its a complicated subject, for me it depends on the type of watch, and it’s purpose, an everyday watch, by definition, needs a date, maybe a day, and it depends a lot on the dial and environment it will inhabit, a boardroom/ solo office a pointer or a color match date at 6, maybe a grand date will suit, but if it’s a more casual a 3 o’clock or, again, a 6 might do the trick, while a field watch or chrono, in my opinion, don’t need them at all.

[@ID-Guy]

Thank you for this Manny! I feel exactly the same. It's all down to the situation where it'll be best used (and does it actually fit the watch and its purpose) - I'm just a sucker for no-dates, so you don't need to convince me ;)

[@brizza72]

For me, the Glasshutte Original is the best iteration of the big date. I don't like the centre frame on the others.

[@ID-Guy]

They are sublime and you're the first of a handful to put GO on top of the list. Love it. They are definitely killing the date game with the way they're integrating them! Thanks for the comment Brizza!

[@blackout8845]

Never liked the 4:30 position, mainly because the Numerals are at an angle. When I look at watches like the Glashütte SeaQ Panorama Date I find the datewindow highly appealing. Its mainly the angle that makes it look cheap and like an afterthought. Also "holes" in the dial. No Window, no finishing, nothing that makes the date window more than a rectangular (or even worse) round hole in the dial... unnecessary, cheap and emotionless. Nothing to explore or enjoy there :/ My personal favourite is still the grand date. Two disks, horologically intriguing, complicated and displaying itself on the dial like the most important part. I like that, sometimes even more than no date at all. Imagine a Lange 1 without the grand date, just a big empty area on the dial, on the other hand imagine a Black Bay with a big date window. It would destroy the appeal of the watch. The vintage look, the simple but magnificent design of the dial, gone because of a white disk with black writing. Its true that too many manufacturers throw datewindows onto their watches without a second thought. But thats one of the areas where you see the split between good and great.

[@Yorkshiremadmick]

Love the Zenith Skeleton and FP Journe Fri Aug 28

[@A_Dude_And_His_Watch78]

I like the date best at 6 like on my oris Aquis. I have the date at 3 on my Aquaterra and SARB 035, and 017 and it doesn't look bad. However the day date on my STO turtle is not attractive. Lately I prefer no date like on my Black Bay Heritage.

[@ID-Guy]

Crazy how we go through the motions and how some watches really suit their dates. Thank you for this Matt!

[@xybersurfer]

how can a watch be too symmetrical?

[@MrAbborre1]

I prefer a date at the 3 a clock. It looks the most symmetrical when the watch is on my arm.

[@ID-Guy]

And someone mentioned (that I didn't even realise) that the date is easy to see under a sleeve when it's on the right wrist at the 3 o clock. Love that attention to detail. Thank you for taking the time to watch the clip Olof!

[@humanitech]

Personally I think many a good analogue watch is or has been marred or royally ruined by adding a date or day/date functions, or other clever but equally unnecessary functions... that just look fussy, or clutter thing up or simply look wrong! But then to add I also think too much branding and writing on dials can also be a hit and miss affair too! Ok so I admit it...I just like a watch to be just that...a good looking watch!

[@ID-Guy]

Don't worry John, you're not the only one. When I'm thinking and playing around with creating watch faces, I really do end up reducing them down to nothing more than their hands and a line of script. It's such a difficult balancing act getting watches to feel "right" for all circumstances. Thank you for your insights, sir! ;)

[@humanitech]

@@ID-Guy it's funny as an ex product designer...I completely understand it is often very difficult to totally nail any design 100% , especially when there are often competing and conflicting factors involved. A bit like designing the most beautiful sculptural sports car...and then realising you have to raise the headlights, and put ugly number plates and bumpers on it too! Watches are even more complex beasties, due to their compact nature and limited visual real estate..to fit, layout, accommodate and get everything looking as good as it possibly can within those constraints and perameters). However that said, and irrespective of price, it is often surprising how many watches, I end up saying...oh if only they had just done this or that, or moved, changed or taken away something (like removing a wart) 😆 But luckily, every once in a while there is something that just seems.... Almost Right ☺️

[@ID-Guy]

@@humanitech So you understand my pain then! Critiquing watches and saying "oh, they should've made the text smaller" "why did they not see how much better this would have been?" etc. - It's amazing when we find that perfect match though. Stumbled on a real gem of a chrono that for the life of me (over the last month and a half) I cannot criticise. The dial has been expertly done... Ah, looking forward to sharing it all!

[@humanitech]

@@ID-Guy LOL I completely understand and agree, and always like seeing and experiencing those occasional Jems!

[@nkonig1]

I think the 6 date on the aqua terra is poorly done. I don’t like it as a substitute for an indices. It should have a half indices and the date could be slightly higher.

[@ID-Guy]

I also feel it's a bit undercooked, much prefer a plot allocated the date to give it that extra presence. Even a polished window around it would clean it up nicely

[@matthoffman6962]

Strongly disagree. But to each their own. I think it adds symmetry and balance to the dial. Much better than having it at the 3 position on the AT

[@srijantandon2698]

I've personally never liked the Vacheron double retrograde. Too big. And the hollowed retrograde arrows with the simple hour and minute hands make me think of it as boring despite so much going on which would also make reading the time a bit difficult. Not that someone who can afford one would care a whole lot about the convenience i suppose.

[@WestCoastAce27]

Hadn’t discovered your channel when this dropped. Definitely can ruin a watch. Accidentally I’m sure, you showed quite a few sector dials - that JLC Memovox was gorgeous.

[@jimcalejimale9681]

I have a big negative for date windows Some months don't have 31 days

[@AustinBachman]

Really wish manufacturers would stop throwing in date complications just because. The black bay chrono, speedmaster 57, aqua terra, royal oak and many others would look so much better without it

[@nkonig1]

This is a great topic. It’s placement is crucial to me. JLC and Patek are pretty bad, surprising given their status. I think Oris probably do it best with their Arabic dial divers 65 and their pointer date. Haha as I’m writing this JLC and Patek appear one after the other! Great minds!

[@ID-Guy]

Ah, I wear my OG Oris 65 proud (with the date at the 6) - it's pretty crazy how many examples from the Haute names seem to have less care put into where their dates are placed... and then there's Lange ;) Thanks for the comment Nick!

[@nkonig1]

@@ID-Guy The JLC sector dial and Nautilus have some of the laziest date windows I can think of. My Orient Ray 2 looks like more thought when into it and that cost me £100! Your 65 is one of my favourites. It’s a shame that it’s been discontinued. I hope it’s only temporary and they’ll re-release it with the new movement.

[@ID-Guy]

@@nkonig1 It's bizarre, right? Just noticed that the most recent Nautilus now has a framing around its date... but Patek is definitely the guiltiest party in this arena... Wow but they take shortcuts with a lot of their dates. Still, like we've seen, there are hidden gems for us out there

[@tiburonski]

Well even when a date window seems misplaced it draws the attention to it and makes the watch quirky and different…

[@boombringer4078]

great content as always!! I really must be missing something with richard mille...... they look like a five year olds toy to me after a hammer has been taken to it! lol

[@ID-Guy]

You're not missing much, brother. We all have this underground belief that they're a fad that will fall away in time. How long can plastic be popular? And how can ageing eyes cope with illegibility? ;)

[@Rhunzzz]

I love date pointers

[@ID-Guy]

They are superb. I was so close to picking up one (probably will soon) The complication feels so purposeful. Thank you for the comment Chia!

[@flippinzippo9670]

Lange can do whatever they want and I'll fight whoever disagrees

[@ID-Guy]

They make such tasty dials. And they just always work regardless of the watch...

[@flippinzippo9670]

@@ID-Guy they the best!

[@russell996]

I’ll hold your coat 😂

[@ID-Guy]

@@russell996 Hey, hey, you're partial to Lange! ;)

[@markstarmer3677]

The cyclops is the worst feature on a Rolex. Looks terrible.

[@theartstraveler]

Nomos rules on this.

[@ID-Guy]

You share your thoughts with lots of others who've mentioned Nomos already! It seems like all German brands have one thing in common - killing the date window game ;)

[@malikshabazz7596]

Lange and Sohne ,and Patek Philippe get it right full stop with the date. Date at 04:00 the worse place.

[@floridaman727]

Bell and Ross does a lot wrong but they do date windows right

[@ItsNeverTooHot4Leather]

I'm definitely NOT a fan of the small date window, especially at three o'clock. I think it is lazy and poor design. I prefer no date watches in general, and I am a big fan of pointer dates or more creative date complications. However, I do think big date complications are almost always well done and well placed. If a small date is going to be added, then there should be some rules that guide its placement. For example, a small date window should NEVER be placed between dial numbers (like on the Glashütte Original dive watch in the video). A small date window should also NEVER be placed as a substitute for a number (like on the JLC Memovox in the video). There are, of course, lots of examples of watches that get the small date position and design right, in my opinion. I think the Oris Big Crown ProPilot Worldtimer has a perfectly designed small date window placed to the left of the #3 in the subdial. The Damasko DC56 chronograph also has a well placed day-date complication that doesn't interrupt the peripheral numbers.

[@ItsNeverTooHot4Leather]

@@IDKline True, unless part of the rules is that they can be altered with a rational justification to allow for innovative approaches. The issue I have with small date windows is that they are, as I see it, irrationally placed on dials.

[@ItsNeverTooHot4Leather]

@@IDKline I most certainly appreciate the discussion/debate, although I must respectfully disagree with you. I do not consider this so-called "rational innovation" phrase to be an oxymoron. To me, the terms are in concordance with each other, and one would have to question whether something is actually an innovation if it is not rational. Much innovation has been guided by rules, methodologies, and even committees (especially ethics committees that approve novel and potentially harmful research). Research/innovation also has to be funded, and it is usually regulated or directed according to certain rules set by a funding body, committee, or group of investors. These established approaches are generally underpinned by reason (hence my use of the term "rational"), commonly based on academic knowledge and scientific methods. Researchers (and other innovators) are often required to provide justification for deviating from an established method or for developing an entirely new method.

[@davidb9531]

I wonder if ID Guy has ever watched WatchErics video on how not to hit your Rolex on a door frame. It's bizarre that an item such as a time piece can create content so intently stupid as said Eric and as brilliant as this. As regards date windows, of my collection I only have 1 watch with one and it gets by far the least wear. Total faff, totally unnecessary, and they ruin every Seiko (who seem wedded to them) ever made. Obviously none of this is relevant with uour F P Journes or a Lange

[@ID-Guy]

I would've dedicated this to being yet another video of mine mentioning how no-dates are the future, but hey ;) I know what you mean, David. They are a faff... I only set the dates on mine when I'm bored hahaha!

[@DonLee1980]

Lange date windows are the BEST.

[@RocketSailing]

Everyone have different taste. But for me, Rolex with cyclops.. well It destroys the watch. To be honest. I really dislike them on any watch. Feels like granpas D.IY add on..

[@ID-Guy]

Apparently the cyclops was an afterthought that arrived a few years later (water droplet landing on the crystal that sparked the idea) AND Hans was moving on in years at that point, so you're actually spot on ;)

[@RocketSailing]

@@ID-Guy LOL