The Sword of Laban Made of Steel? - Between the Lines

In this episode of Between the Lines, the Paul brothers read between the lines of 1 Nephi 4:5-9 where Nephi draws Laban's sword from it's sheath and recognizes it is of "the most precious steel."
When The Book of Mormon was published in 1830, the idea of steel swords in the Old World was scoffed at by many critics. Today, we know that steel swords were available at the time of Lehi and the way they were made and how they looked may give us an insight into some of the unique wording found in these verses.
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[@Called-to-Live]

Truth can be verified by every angle eventually, and now metallurgy testifies of history. Another great episode!

[@nickhoward3040]

YES!!!! Every angle, the truth of this comment is INSANE

[@lindatao8205]

As soon as you questioned how Nephi could recognize the sword was exceedingly precious steel in the dim light of night... I immediately thought, "Damascus steel!" I'm so glad I found you guys!

[@SpOculus33]

I’m an Orem, Utah resident and grew up as a member of the church. This is exciting, I can’t wait to watch your new docu-series!

[@Abelhawk]

I always wondered if Nephi was a blacksmith. He recognized the quality of the steel, and he was immediately interested in forging tools as soon as he heard the commandment to build a ship. I never knew about that pattern! So cool!

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

I wonder how he forged tools without any tools? Or mined ore, without any tools? (1 Nephi 17:9)

[@johnmichaelholbrook7286]

The Lord showed Nephi the manner in which to make the ship. He needed to forge the specific tools for that task. It is implied that he had the wherewithal to obtain and gather the ore; once shown where to obtain it. That would have included other tools unrelated to shipwright.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

@@johnmichaelholbrook7286 The text actually very clearly implies they didn't have any tools capable of metal work, by examining the Steel Bow story.

[@treystone9464]

@@rodneyjamesmcguire or they did but just didn't have the materials they had at Bountiful to do anything with them.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

@@treystone9464 Well that's if they even existed, of course.

[@amymonson5646]

Wow! That is amazing, thanks for your insights. That is truly fascinating about the sword of Laban.

[@libbymesserly391]

I believe Nephi was a metal smith for a few reasons and I hadn't even thought of this one! His brothers accuse him of making the Liahona, and to build a ship he only needed to know where to find ore for tools.....this makes sense as to why he knew such a fine sword!

[@nickhoward3040]

WOW!! That’s amazing!!!! :) love you guys.

[@ThoseOneGuysInc]

That’d be cool if you could share your information about that sword with shad from from the shadiversity channel. He’s a member and he might just focus on medieval weapons, but his channel is all about swords. He might be interested in this.

[@Bitter_Beauty_Music]

He made a video a little while ago about what the sword of Laban would have looked like

[@Greg-McIver]

Thank you for the great work you are doing!

[@thestickofjoseph]

Glad you enjoy it!

[@theodorebutler1758]

I am glad guys like you who are able to do the archaeological work. Some random youtuber who does the same thing did a video debating on why Joseph Smith was a "False" Prophet, and he basically was like lack of evidence, and no signs of battle etc... My point is that there was a huge lack of evidence for supporting the Bible until recently with the physical evidence. I don't know why people are so focused on seeing evidence all the time instead of first exercising faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, and then comes the evidence of that faith in His timing. Anyways Thanks for your work.

[@denebuxtoo8944]

Awesome video you guys! Keep 'em coming!

[@treystone9464]

In Prince Shule's time there were meteoric nickel-iron deposits mined and cold forged into nickel-steel items. Meteoric Iron (Nickel-Steel Alloy) ore was utilized by the Olmec (1500-400 BCE) and Chavin (900-300 BCE) cultures. (Lunazzi, José J. [30 January 2007]). "Olmec mirrors: An example of archaeological American mirrors". In Nephi's time, the Inuit cold forged many steel blades and tools from Cape York meteoritic nickel-iron dating prior to 1450 (before the Little Ice Age) the steel has been found throughout the Arctic Archipelago and the North American mainland, and is evidence of an extensive Thule iron trade network.

[@thestickofjoseph]

Thank you for sharing! Super interesting stuff, I’ll have to look into it.

[@sherigraham3873]

Great program! Interesting metallurgy and watermarks on those daggers. You guys are young, adventurous and capable! THANKYOU ✨

[@dinocollins720]

Another fantastic video!!! Thank you! Cool research about Nephis bow has been done too

[@AnaliliB]

So interesting! Thank you!

[@thestickofjoseph]

Thank you for joining us!

[@carlavegas887]

You guys are great!

[@kylerobinson7572]

Thank you for creating this series of videos. Very interesting and entertaining :-)

[@victoriagledhill5872]

Same here, I always wondered if he had trained with a blacksmith. I mean he was the youngest and was not going to take care of his father's business anyway, so I'm thinking why not. Or maybe because of his father's business, Nephi was used to see precious metals.

[@sot-daddy8559]

Pretty cool sword and dagger.

[@TheBenJiles]

Cool insight!

[@elizabethbaker2426]

Thank you so much for all your work on this channel! I have loved watching your videos! Side note.. Have you ever researched the possibility that the Sword of Laban is the same sword David used on Goliath? I'm not stating that as fact, but I have found some really cool research on it.

[@ClintRay2578]

I believe on the sword it says that whatever nation possesses the sword will never lose. So maybe David did have it and passed it down

[@elizabethbaker2426]

@@ClintRay2578 I know it is just a theory but it would be cool if it was the same sword.

[@thestickofjoseph]

Please share with me any links to that research.

[@elizabethbaker2426]

@@thestickofjoseph can I email you?

[@thestickofjoseph]

@@elizabethbaker2426 yes, please. [e-mail]

[@Celestian329]

nice! new knowledge for me!

[@juancholo7502]

Have you heard about a KZbin channel called Shadiversity? He is a LDS member from Australia who primarily talks about the Middle Ages (& pop culture on another channel called Knights Watch). He has 2 videos where he talks about the Jericho sword and how it relates to the sword of Laban & another video were he tries to digitally recreate what he thinks the sword might have looked like given the common designs of the time (@600bc).

[@chenningfeld7]

You might like to research and follow the path of the sword of Laban and beyond the Hill Cumorah where it was seen by Joseph Smith and others. Some have suggested that due to Laban’s position of prominence in the tribe of Joseph (a small contingent in Jeresalem that was taken taken North with the 10 tribes) indicates it may have been originally the sword of Joseph in Egypt

[@Kristy_not_Kristine]

I got something for you. Have you heard of the Lachish Letters? Lachish was a city near Jerusalem, and around 600 BC all their important documents and letters were on clay. When Jerusalem was destroyed, Lachish was also. It was burned, so all the clay tablets were fired (preserving them to this day). On some of these "Lachish letters" are correspondence between their general and the general of Jerusalem. His name? Laban. We also learn that in times of peace Laban has control of 50 men. In time of war: 5,000 men, just as Laman and Lemuel say. We also learn that because of the prophesied coming destruction of Jerusalem, many families were attempting to flee. The Elders of Zion passed a law making it illegal to leave, hence the need for Lehi's family to escape secretly. It's fun to consider that other families besides Lehi believed Jeremiah and left, recording their experiences wherever the Lord took them in His vineyard. One day all the branches will be gathered back into the original olive tree. This is the from memory and just a summary of the Lachish Letters, but quite fascinating!

[@treystone9464]

At the only place east of Nahom, across the Empty Quarter, is Dhofar, the most viable candidates for the trees and vegetation of Bountiful. In Arabia where iron is rare, at Dhofar there are many exposed and easy to find red veins. This iron also unique, its a naturally occurring mixture of iron and carbonate. The carbonate acts as a natural flux that lowers the melting point of iron to temperatures achievable by a wood fire and bellows. One can also forge the metal using cold forging - that is, by hammering the metal with stones. There is also evidence the beaches were used as an ancient seaport where ships were built.

[@tonymason9855]

Look up Salalah. Quriyat too but it's much farther east in Oman

[@thestickofjoseph]

We will be going there this fall 😃😃

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

Actually the addition of carbonate in iron ore requires greater energy (heat) to smelt. It will kill a blast furnace if added directly to it. Wood alone cannot smelt Siderite (Iron Carbonate).

[@treystone9464]

@@rodneyjamesmcguire Actually, Geologist Ron Harris was there and tested the process to make certain it was possible and at 1100 degrees Celcius, a wood fire transformed the iron ore into sponge-iron that can be further refined by a combination of heating and pounding, essentially 'molten'.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

Where's Nahom?

[@tinacarvalhoBodyandHealth]

i also like that we can teach children lots of useful skills as one will use them unexpectedly (and Nephi was obeying an Old Testament Law anyway with that whole difficult event he then obeyed0

[@Anne-ee1pw]

I’ve always figured that Nephi was a goldsmith, or silversmith. We know he was able to recognize the different metals, he knew how to smelt metals from ore to make tools. So he even knew what the ore in the rocks looked like that he needed to smelt to create the tools that would help him build a ship. I have often wondered if priests had this knowledge. When Moses was on the mountain he had left Aaron with the people. The people came to Aaron to pressure him into making a golden calf to worship….. why didn’t the people do it themselves? Maybe it’s because Aaron was one of the only ones who had the skills to know how to do it, again reinforcing my thoughts that only certain men knew how to work metals. Later in the Book of Mormon people made weapons out of a variety of things. Then I considered that only a very few people would have been trusted with the knowledge of how to smelt metals because how to making the most destructive weapons would be something you really wouldn’t want shared with your enemies. Just a thought. Also Nephi’s older brothers didn’t know how to smelt metal as far as we know, (maybe a bit lazy or entitled because they obviously had wealth, and went back to their home to gather enough of their wealth to pay Laban for the plates their father told them to get from Laban) it’s possible they really didn’t want to do any grunt work and by the time Nephi came along, Lehi may have felt it was time to pass his knowledge on to Nephi. I have always had the feeling that Samuel was not quite up to the tasks, I was impressed he was younger but it clearly states he is an older brother of Nephi. So I figured he was in some way delayed. In one verse it sounds like Nephi had a heart to heart conversation to explain the situation that was going on and I felt Nephi was doing something he had done with Samuel his whole life. He was actually bringing Samuel up to speed with the situation. Kind of coaching him up. Samuel trusted Nephi and I believe it was because of years of interactions with Samuel. Am I the only one that thinks about these things?

[@thomasandsheilarock5454]

Talk to Shad from shadeversity. He has a wonderful video on the verid Jericho sword

[@Wonderboywonderings]

If people want to learn more about this kind of steel, research "Damascus steel," and "pattern welded steel." (they aren't the same, but are similar). Modern research has found than vanadium was likely the secret ingredient in the unique Damascus steel.

[@DavoBenjamin]

These guys remind me of a young Indiana Jones with a brother.

[@dannyd7426]

How did he know it was fine steel? Because it had “ULFBERHT” inlayed in the blade haha Damascus steel is VERY recognizable!

[@paulsavage2157]

Look at the hilt of the dagger buried with King Tut.

[@angelalewis3645]

Have you guys seen Shadiversity’s video about the Sword of Laban? 🌟

[@joshuaerickson8888]

It would have also been the full moon! (Thus increasing visibility) It was Passover after all (according to Don Bradley’s research), which is in the middle of the month. The moon is always full in the middle of a lunar month - which is the kind of month that Israelites keep.

[@ericjustasinner5695]

As a outsider not a lds or rlds or Temple Lot. I enjoy reading and learning more about the book of Mormon. Do y'all have a email i like to talk with you usll

[@thestickofjoseph]

[e-mail]

[@ericjustasinner5695]

@@thestickofjoseph thanks I am at work at the moment but my next day off ill hit you up

[@TheoryMaK15-255]

It's Called Damascus or Wootz Steel Damascus. Our Mormon knight IN ARMS Shadiversity on KZbin did a video on it. What did the Sword of Laban look like? from the Book of Mormon m.kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6nCemaig99jars Hope that helps...

[@cybernoid001]

another obvious way to tell it was steel when he drew the sword is weight. Bronze swords at the time would have been much heavier than steel and obvious as soon as you draw it from the scabbard.

[@The_Other_Ghost]

I don't think you know what reading between the lines is. What you did is just called doing research. I recently had a mormon who said it wasn't steel, it was really an umbrella term for "hardened metal". He stopped responding after I showed him 2 nephi where it talked about teaching of multiple metals, like steel. Faith, you can believe in anything, including that steel didn't actually mean steel.

[@myth010gy]

It's called "Damascus" steel.

[@bagnasbayabas]

If you guys are seeking for truth, you can invite RFM, John Dehlin and Jeremy Runnels. Those guys are awesome. They will tell you the whole truth.

[@RecoveringUGrad]

Jeremy Runnels is a hack. His own sources actually refuted his anti-truth, anti-LDS claims. His own sources debunk his arguments.

[@NEplays]

But what about the gold hilt? That wasn’t talked about at all

[@NEplays]

@@PapaKryptoss ??? 🤣

[@thestickofjoseph]

Hahah yea there are swords with gold hilts that have been found, but we thought the silver handle sufficed in demonstrating that precious metals were used to forge hilts.

[@NEplays]

@@thestickofjoseph I guess it did suffice, I was just wondering

[@ryanspackman548]

Gold hilt discussed here kzbin.info/www/bejne/j6nCemaig99jars

[@robertberardy405]

No, seems like a good question, "pure gold" would seem to be a relatively soft metal and heavy, thus not ideal for a sword. It might be argued it is mainly, but not necessarily exclusively, for ornamental purposes? @@NEplays

[@lukegraven7839]

No it is still viewed as fiction. Still very much an anachronism. No ancient steel swords found in situ. It’s like me taking my complete iPhone to Africa and saying look it’s proof it’s made here. That’s as nonsensical as what you’re saying regarding the Jericho sword. Please look up ‘in situ’ and use it if you’re going to present an archeological evidence based show.

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

What expert in historic metallurgy, following the publication of The Book of Mormon (BofM), claimed that there was no steel in the area of Judea in 600 B.C.? I can't find any such reference. I view this as, for lack of a better term, a false anachronism by Apologists. I'm not saying nobody claimed it as an anachronism, to be clear. Also, this might be a matter of terminology, because iron smelting at at least 1,200C, resulted in steel, via the introduction of charcoal. This type of iron is spoken of in the Bible. (Isaiah 44:12; for example). It is called iron, but it is metallurgically steel, having carbon introduced (about 2%). Smith would have been exposed to black-smithing as the Erie Canal was being built through Palmyra, NY, when the Smith's arrived there in 1815 and until 1825. This predates the dictation and publication of the BofM. What is an anachronism is the mention of steel (not just Laban's sword) in the ancient, pre-European conquest, Americas, in the BofM. Likewise, iron was not mined or smelted in the Americas at the time of the BofM, or anytime, before the European conquest. This anachronism IS attested to by experts in historic metallurgy. This is why the Ancient Americas didn't have an "Iron Age", for example.

[@jamesbaldwin7676]

Yes the Old Testament speaks of steel chariot wheels and steel bows. What's more the Vered Jericho Sword (the oldest steel sword in the world) dates to the 7th Century BCE and was excavated in 1982. "The sword of Laban" therefore, is not necessarily an anachronism.

[@solomon2161]

“This is the earliest account of steel to be found in history.” E. D. Howe, Mormonism Unvailed (1834), 25-26. “Laban’s sword was steel, when it is a notorious fact that the Israelites knew nothing of steel for hundreds of years afterwards. Who but as ignorant a person as Rigdon would have perpetrated all these blunders?” Clark Braden in Public Discussion, 1884, 109. “Laban is represented as killed by one Nephi, some six hundred years before Christ, with a sword ‘of the most precious steel,’ hundreds of years before steel was known to man!” Daniel Bartlett, The Mormons or, Latter-day Saints (1911), 15. “[The Book of Mormon] speaks of the most ‘precious steel,’ before the commonest had been dreamt of.” C. Sheridan Jones, The Truth about the Mormons (1920), 4-5. “Nephi . . . wielded a sword ‘of the most precious steel.’ But steel was not known to man in those days.” Stuart Martin, The Mystery of Mormonism (1920), 44. “Laban had a steel sword long before steel came into use.” George Arbaugh, Revelation in Mormonism (1932), 55. “Every commentator on the Book of Mormon has pointed out the many cultural and historical anachronisms, such as the steel sword of Laban in 600 B.C.” Thomas O’Dea, The Mormons (1957), 39. “No one believes that steel was available to Laban or anyone else in 592 B.C.” William Whalen, The Latter-day Saints in the Modern World (1964), 48. --- References found on bookofmormoncentral.org/qa/how-could-laban-have-possessed-a-sword-of-%E2%80%9Cmost-precious-steel%E2%80%9D

[@jamesbaldwin7676]

@@solomon2161 Everyone and everything you've quoted, predates the discovery of the Vered Jericho Sword, which is currently on display in Jerusalem's Israel Museum. So it's true, the Sword of Laban was an anachronism, but that can no longer be said. What part of "seeing is believing" are you not seeing? Perhaps the Old Testament is also telling the truth about chariot wheels with steel rims and bows of steel? (BTW, Nephi also had one of those.)

[@rodneyjamesmcguire]

@@solomon2161 Thanks. None of these folks are experts in metallurgy and its' history, as I previously indicated. I didn't say nobody thought it was an anachronism.

[@solomon2161]

@@jamesbaldwin7676 I'm not sure we're understanding each other. I was answering Rodney's question, because he didn't seem to think there were claims of the sword being anachronistic. I was simply showing that there were many such claims between 1830 and the discovery of the Jericho sword.

[@happyarchaeologist]

There is no such thing as a Sword Of Laban! Funny, you said artifacts. There is no artifacts for the BOM!