Christ chose to do it just like you choose to do the things mentioned above.

God says that slavery is fine, polygamy is essential, divorce is evil, and that a r*pist should marry his victim, but I'm guessing you ignore all of that because you don't believe in it. How do you have a moral code that's different than God's? Could it possibly be that you've evolved (along with the rest of humanity) to be a social creature who is affected by the norms of the culture in which you live? Non-lds people have moral systems too & believe in right and wrong, even atheists. There's no sense arguing against an invisible monster you created yourself.

When you take away consequences for actions, you remove agency. When the same outcome will happen no matter the actions of someone, they no longer have the opportunity to choose what ultimate end they want to work towards.

@thestickofjoseph there are consequences to everything. For example, if you drink too much you may hurt your body or make bad decisions while drunk. If you steal from your friends then you'll eventually have no friends and people will lose respect for you. If you hurt a child then your community will ostracize you or incarcerate you for everyone's safety. There absolutely are consequences for every choice. But what you're talking about is external (and eternal) consequences that aren't related to the crime, enacted by a vengeful and jealous God. Different thing. Punishment doesn't teach or fix. There are real-world solutions like prevention, education, protection, and support, that do a much better job. God's judgements don't stop the crime or heal the victims. You say that people have agency but it seems only the perpetrators have agency whereas the victims are forced to submit. And the best thing to heal them is compassion, support, restitution, and lots of therapy. These are real-world solutions that we already have and use (but we could do better). The atonement may give comfort to some but it also provides scapegoat and enables people to do great harm and move on without apology or restitution. The idea that people outside of the lds church (such as John) believe in no consequences or no right/wrong decisions is just silly. You are arguing against a position that was not proffered. Atheists believe in good/bad, right/wrong too-they just don't take that moral code from self-proclaimed prophets or ancient allegorical texts.

​@@thestickofjosephAlso, I've never heard this idea that Lucifer's plan was to take away the meaning of right and wrong so there would be no consequences. I was a member for 33 years, from 1981 to 2015 and I was only ever taught that Lucifer planned to force all humans to comply. And it wouldn't make theological sense for Lucifer to destroy the meaning of right and wrong since those principles are eternal law that even God himself is subject to and also the fact that "no unclean thing can enter the kingdom of heaven". Again, an eternal principal that exists independently of God, according to lds theology. So how could Lucifer's plan be to destroy eternal law? Doesn't that suggest he is more powerful than God? I'm certain that's not part of lds theology! Do you have any evidence that the church ever taught (or even secretly believed) in this explanation of what was proposed prior to the great war in heaven? I think you may be constructing your own unique doctrine because you find it easier to defend than what the church actually believes and has taught for a very long time. I see no problem with you believing your own unique version of lds theology but to use that to defend the church, which has believed and taught something different for many lifetimes, is at best, uninformed, and at worst, dishonest.

​@@MoreWordsPleaseDon't you Mormons know that Satan works for ( GOD) Him and all his Angels GOD is the one who created ( Evil not Satan

I want to be retired and have a $0 salary. 10% of that is $0. So I’ll pay that and be a full tithe payer. Yay, loophole!

Can you give some examples of uneducated reasons people leave the church for?

@@pv3627 Yeah, and then we could talk about it

@@natedawg2020 go ahead

@@natedawg2020 John Dehlin survey of ~3,000 former members. General factors of disbelief: (% Who Rated this as a Major* Factor) * Major issue = rated 3 or 4 on a 4 point scale ((0 = not a factor, 4 = strongest/primary factor). I ceased to believe in the church's doctrine/theology - 74% I studied church history and lost my belief- 70% I lost faith in Joseph Smith - 70% I lost faith in the Book of Mormon - 65% I lost confidence in the general authorities - 50% Church's stance on women - 47% Church's stance on homosexuals / Prop 8 - 48% Church's stance on race issues (blacks, native Americans, etc.) - 43% I did not feel spiritually edified at church - 47% Church's stance on science-related matters - 40% I became bothered by church culture (e.g. politics, etc.) - 33% I re-evaluted what it means to believe/know - 38% I lost confidence in my local church leadership - 24% I lost my faith in God - 27% I lost my faith in Jesus - 26% I did not receive the promised spiritual witness - 21% I received a spiritual witness to leave the church and go elsewhere - 12% Lack of meaningful friendships within the church - 6% I or someone I loved was abused by someone in the church. - 7% I wanted to engage in behaviors viewed as sinful by the church - 4% I was offended by someone in the church. - 4%

Which of these would you categorize as uneducated, and why?

Well, that’s kinda his schtick… to discuss issues with the church

I’m the same age as John as well. We probs went to school together. I was so impressed with these very young men. They were able to have a conversation with a much older man who has spent the last several years immersed in anti-garbage. I would have answered a few questions with John differently. But I was still amazed at their youth and wisdom, and testimony. My heart felt sad for John. He has gotten so caught up in all the anti-that he seems so very empty & dark. The only purpose he seems to have in his life is destroying people’s faith. He says it’s not, but I’ve watched many of his Mormon Stories, and I have also seen him interview on other podcasts. He has gotten so caught up in all the lies and garbage he doesn’t know when he’s telling the truth anymore. He acts so innocent and uses flattery, but it’s empty. Sad🥲 Using deception and lies to “reveal dishonesty” seems ironical. I wish him the best. Hopefully he can find the peace he’s seeking for. He’s put MANY members into faith crisis, and caused many to be hard core anti/atheists… But MANY of them are returning to the church in large numbers with stronger testimonies than ever before! There is also a “Comeback Podcast” with Ashleigh Stone where her guests tell their stories of being like John, faithful members… then leaving, become bitter anti-, and then coming back to church with stronger faith in Christ. There is a purpose God will use for John’s deceit. John is not mightier than his Creator. ❤️☀️

@@Icanonlyimagn7891 Direct question, when did he lie in this conversation?

@@rodneyjamesmcguire I’m not going to go back over the 4.5 hour production to point it all out. He took truth and twisted it into lies, he took truth out of context to fit his narrative, he was disingenuous. He said he was not trying to destroy faith with his channel, but that is a lie. His whole business model is to destroy faith. He has created expensive workshops for people who through his channel loose faith, and those expensive workshops help people deconstruct their faith. He offers couple counseling and individual counseling for people who have lost their faith from his channel and makes good money off of “helping” the doubter navigate their loss of faith in their families. He makes millions off of causing faith crisis, planting doubt and destroying faith. There was a interview where he said members of the church, usually in their older age, after living consecrated to God & faithful, virtuous lives, keeping the commandments and striving to follow the Lord, if they wrote a big enough check to the church, can get their second anointing. Once they have that ordinance they can “harm children” (he used the “p” word) as much as they want, steal, cheat “ANY” sin except murder, and still get their own planets. How absurd! And he said in that interview the church is only about the men, and the women are oppressed. I’m a woman and I feel loved, valued and powerful in my role as a woman in the church. John said in that conversation only the men get planets. He doesn’t understand the new and everlasting covenant. It takes a man and a woman. Equals. He twists truth, takes truth out of context. Is disingenuous. And I feel like he has been so consumed with all the anti, he can’t remember the truth from the lies. But he is VERY well versed in the anti garbage. I have to give that to him. But after absorbing the lies for several years day and night it makes sense he’d loose a grip on the beautiful gospel of Jesus Christ. I will give it to him, he most likely misunderstands a lot as well. And it’s all ok. I’m not worried about it. Some people need to be anti and out of the church to learn valuable life lessons. I believe we all have life plans. ALL mortals are loved dearly by their Creator. And that John is not bigger than God. It just makes me sad to watch him. What a miserable life to spend all your time and career destroying faith. That is Lucifer’s plan. Joy comes from creating, blessing, lifting others. But John makes amazing 💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰💰 So I get his motivation. I will say it’s a great business plan. Once people realize they’ve been duped by him, they come back stronger than ever. Sometime it takes years… but that’s really ok. Lots of growth is a good thing! I believe growth and truth can happen outside of the church as well as inside it. ❤️☀️ Maybe even John will someday come back. You never know… My husband was a rabid anti and taught the lies over the pulpit of his evangelical church for years, and believed the lies to his core. He met some LDS young adults that were different, good, respectful, bright and he wanted to save them from their evil cult. He read the Book of Mormon to prove it wrong, and had a “Saul” experience. He tracked down the missionaries and was baptized a couple weeks later. Isn’t life quite the adventure? God is so good, and never forget, your Creator/Father loves you whether you are LDS or not. He loves you whether you make covenants of break them. He loves you even if you do not love Him back. Nothing can separate you from His love.❤️☀️