The Tank Hate Problem... | SMITE

Year 10 brought a lot of new tools to improve tanks' ability to deal damage and how tanky they can be late game through mitigations. But sadly, just 2 patches in, a lot of that stuff has been nerfed into the ground while tank shredding items recieve buffs at the same time. Causing a double whammy of making tanks weaker. Here's my thoughts.
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[@thetoragod654]

I like to call Qins passive “You instantly make the supports life a complete misery”.

[@Rezulince]

I call it game

[@roadhouse3191]

doesn't mitagations counter the true dmg?

[@LazarouDave]

@@roadhouse3191 The hint is in the name "true damage" geeza Edit: Ok I get it, % mitigation can apparently reduce damage, the fella I was replying to didn't specify this, nust broadly asked about mitigations, which to me means normal defence stats, stfu already...damn

[@sameercolbert]

@@LazarouDaveno mitigations apply to true damage. Smite is weird.

[@angrysquirrel8816]

@@roadhouse3191 Quins doesn't do true damage, it does %hp damage, which can be mitigated

[@jonathandanielworley9468]

Jungle main here, super agree. While it is super fun being a glass cannon that can fight. I hate having the solo that dives them with me die it’s two seconds. My best friend that I go into games with is a solo main so we talk together about when to dive the back line and such. He sets them up with cc and draws their attention then I can dump my kit. He doesn’t 100 to 0 them but after my whole kit if I don’t kill him he does enough damage to finish it. But when he dies in less than 5 seconds then it’s dumb for me to do my job if diving back line in a 1v2 or 1v3 if support is with them. Sure, the solo single targeting me out and not being able to kill them isn’t fun for me. But I chose the glass cannon role, I know the risk. If I don’t wanna die from them and they’re targeting me, I need to do better positioning to not get picked out by them. Unfortunately not enough people want to get better at the game and analyze their own stuff. They just wanna be able to walk where wet they please and not worry about anyone. My two cents at least from a non tank main.

[@akasunanosasori6385]

tank hate isnt just a smite problem, its an every game problem. As a religious tank player, i noticed since the good days of wow that tanks slowly but surely get removed, all becoming more and more damage and less and less tankynes, it is just something that will probably urk me for the rest of my years cause i do not see the loud group stop screaming about it as much of a minority/majority they may be!

[@poro8917]

Everyone just shits their pants when a tank either does more then 1 damage or dont die in 5 seconds

[@absoluteradiance3254]

Tank metas are a horrible thing for games, whenever there is a damage meta people have fun and the damage can be countered because you can kill the dps as they tend to be squishy. If there is a tank meta you just get undying deathballs running everyone down, and you feel incredibly useless because no matter what you do they wont die. Just look at how overwatch went through its tank meta (goats)

[@Warrior_Meta]

@@absoluteradiance3254 I agree, however, goats are different from smite because one Braindead hero made the comp viable, not some items. It took a whole set of items for tanks to do anything while mage kits can even carry bad itemization. The same cannot be said for tanks. Having bad itemization cannot be overcome with a good kit nearly as much. While tanks walking around and doing dmg might not be the best, at least they have to do multiple things in order to get that dmg off and they are easier to kite, as opposed to most other dmg-dealing characters which are pretty sticky for the most part.

[@absoluteradiance3254]

@@Warrior_Meta i mean im not talking about balance, im just saying that if you want to attract players and make the brand new season entertaining a tank meta is not a good thing because its only fun for the tanks, which is the least played role in the first place

[@Warrior_Meta]

@@absoluteradiance3254 oh very true. Having a new player be able to impact the game and get feedback via the hud(kills assists gold etc) is the best way to get people invested

[@Akwatypus]

Yes. I don't like how the itemization lets you get away with everything, notably with squishies. It would be waay more interesting and probably healthier for the game to actually have build paths that make situational sense and require sacrifices in other areas. It sure feels like we're getting a glimpse of Smite dev team's own favorite playstyle, which appears to be "make this easy for me plz".

[@anthonyk3952]

I mean, look at most of the removed or heavily reworked items in the game's history: seriously niche items. Antiheal items (Beatstick/Divine) used to offer a meager 25/40 power along with ironically lifesteal of all stats and mostly existed for antiheal. Ichaival was a item specifically designed to increase your boxing capability. Runic Shield was the only solid bruiser item for physicals to buy early game for situational mage dives or weaken magically dominant teams. If you were a mage being dove by Warriors/Assassins too often, Celestial Legion offered heavy (but decaying) physical armor for without sacrificing too much damage. And those are just a handful of the 130+ reworked/removed items in the game's history. The game was so much more interesting when every role (except ADC for the most part) typically had a core 3/4 items they built every game, with the remaining 3/2 items being situational for that game. Very rarely did almost every character have a cookie cutter build like we have now (my friends and I joke about how most endgame builds now just consist of some combination of 6 of the 8 meta items for each role). By making almost every item in the game be 'all-purpose' for the most part, they ironically make the game less intrinsic. There is almost never a situation where you have to choose between A and B for different situations, it's almost just A is objectively better than B, except for the very rare situation where B is objectively better than A.

[@cameronsidhu5711]

I mean spectral completely counters crit, once you build one crit item and the enemy buys spectral, your build does less damage than not going a crit item, so that's a consideration you've gotta take in in your build path

[@xoldrek9232]

Mages can't get away with everything though. I will agree adcs do get away with anything however.

[@tankwfw]

Maybe make more items like Lono's Mask that specifically reduce your numbers in a certain area if you want to go this item route

[@jjgarcia156]

​@@cameronsidhu5711 great, now what about the Qin's, pen and lifesteal the ADC has? You build one counter item but they still have 4 more that make your life Hell. And if the tank ONLY builds to counter the enemy ADC, he's gonna die to the magical on their team. Tanks had one thing going for them but too many people whined that the tanks don't die in 5 hits and one ability anymore.

[@hitsuguyathe1]

I also feel like a lot of this was a marketing plot, too. Tank items being stronger earlier when surtr was new, then take that away and buff hunter items now that Marti is here. Also falls under catering to their player base. There will always be more carry than support players, so let’s make the majority happy. Maybe they’ll spend more money 🤷‍♂️

[@mat6990]

Gigabrain holy shit

[@tankwfw]

I've been saying this for years. They intentionally release gods OP to create interest in them (sometimes they overestimate how good they are (Da Ji, Ravana, etc))

[@nairobi8056]

So instead of making supports more appealing to play, they made hunters be the only option

[@chaoskiller5906]

Unless they changed it, qins passive also punishes people just for picking warriors and guardians. You get max passive value if the target has 2,750 health and all tanks with zero items have 3k+. I did not mind qins as bad, but I would love that small nerf just so I can have SOME counter play.

[@xuxon24]

You quickly get a ton of health, that's why I hate when they make a new item and they just slap 300 400 health that's not good.

[@TheStanDudley]

Agreed with all things said. I’m a solo main, and most of their abilities seem tailored to a ‘w-key’ push play style, like cabraken 1, or vam ult, or a herc standing in a front-line fishing for that knock up. That’s what makes them so difficult to play, especially so when your longevity in a team fight is so limited. I think more juke, hit and run style solo laners will emerge soon; the likes of Achilles and SWK, because tanking is just unbearably inefficient right now. Just a thought.

[@PumaPants248]

We’re about to hit the point of the tank balance cycle where we build mostly damage and then they cry we do too much damage then we get defense buffs and then we’re too tanky until they get 3 items deep and then defense gets nerfed so much we decide to build damage and the cycle continues

[@cloroxbleach2615]

I think that most backliners forget that solos and jungles should beat backliners, not the other way round. If adcs and mages could just solo kill the dive then there would be no point of supports being a thing. The whole point is adcs and mages are supposed to be able to deal damage to tanks but be vulnerable to being killed themselves and the supports are supposed to protect them but not be as independant as a role and be able to kill people by themselves. I think most adcs and mids just want to be able to win games by themselves

[@aewon2085]

Yeah, it’s not a solo’s issue, is that supports play as solos all the time so backliners get picked easy

[@avipinckney]

I disagree, I think at thirty minutes in the game the hunter should be the scariest character in the game. That’s why they are adc emphasis on the carry. That’s why they afk farm. If they just afk farm to still be weak at the end of the game then what’s the point of them. It’s still not easy to get 20 auto attacks on a single enemy late game.

[@BigNor-]

​@@avipinckney there is already a build in the game where no matter what the tanks build hunters will still crit for 400+ without the need of even having a support. If hunters are criting for 400+ on tanks squishies just get insta killed people just arent building the right stuff.

[@MrBuns-yi2hk]

I think the problem is that hunter items kind of suck right now.

[@mrdhong2143]

@@MrBuns-yi2hk you are trolling

[@emoninja1802]

Intersect: Presents a very objective argument advocating for tanks The Smite Community: NERF TaNkS!! TheY ARe sOOo oPpPpP!!!!!

[@BasedChadman]

I've honestly lost interest in this game because the moment they gave us tankiness again, we got a SINGLE patch to enjoy it before they started stripping things away.

[@Skaatje]

Too bad, no one ever leaves smite. They just say they do, A LOT, and then queue ranked conquest again. And complain there too probably.

[@BasedChadman]

@@Skaatje Haven't touched ranked in two years and played only a few weeks of season 9 in total. Season 10 brought me back for a patch, and now I'll be playing other games where I can have fun playing the way I want to unless they stop balancing the entire game around Zappy boi.

[@animelover333100]

Honestly dude? Same. I've been playing tank for almost 7 years now i think, and this season simply exhausted me. I'm so done.

[@Fenriir]

I used to play smite for 4+ hours DAILY for around 5-6 years, now I play it for about 2 hours a week, the game has got stale and balance buffs & nerfs have got predictable and not in a good way, realistically they could do with stripping ALL ITEMS back to basic stats, lower the TTK and rebalance the bloated items (which is probably 80% of items) but we all know that won't happen

[@NOLANRYANHOSKINS]

As a support main, I completely agree. I would much rather see a mitigation cap, with a stat showing it, then these constant nerfs. The tank meta, while we had it, was so much fun and made the backline have to think and determine priorities.

[@xRagingxDemonx]

There shouldn't be a mitigation cap at all. Just nerf the damage output of tanks. They shouldn't be able to solo kill 2 backline's and walk away with full hp. Nerf their damage not their tankiness.

[@jradjj2988]

Tank meta sucks the fun out of the game so hard tanks have been stupid strong, I will say I think the problem is way more on warriors than guardians, but even guardians can output a stupid amount of damage for no reason. But warriors? Are a dumbass broken class, I had one game a mulan built all tank had straight up 30 power and did over 70k damage the most in the game and it took 3 people to take her down and she still almost came out on top. Every time I play a warrior it’s seriously like playing the game on easy mode you just cannot die and can solo almost any squishy and there is nothing they can do. If I am a full damage late game carry or mage I should be able to easily do plenty damage to the tanks maybe not enough to kill but enough to make them think twice about just bum rushing on me but you don’t they stick to you like glue and kill you while you can maybe do a quarter or half there health after dumping your entire kit on them. Then combo that with the utterly dumb items they get glad shield, bluestone, prophetic, beserkers, sundering axe etc…. Makes them nearly unstoppable.

[@troymerz4344]

​@@xRagingxDemonx I have no main role but from my perspektiv tanks should be abel to kill the backline the sup proctect backline so the adc can destroy the tank so the damage itself is not the problem. I would rather have a damage tank meta than a defensiv meta because then things like reflect damage is good again and I dont know how long you play smite. When I statrted smite I got in that typ of meta and its not fun you kill yourself dont fell good. And in a damage tank meta its need good teamplay and thats how it sould be. Not I alone kill everybody as a carry in 3 sec and dont get punished for the risk...

[@Tilley53]

Mitigation cap would be fine

[@Tilley53]

​@xRagingxDemonx if they nerf their base damage they have to nerf health on everything all around to allow the support to solo farm a camp here and there to gain XP. Or increase XP all around to make up for the support stealing XP from everyone constantly including the JG. Or give warriors and gaurdians an XP boost passive that only they get (since they are suppose to be support characters, of course this effects some characters like Aphro and Hel that can also be supports)

[@Sacred9000]

the problem Imo with tank items is not that tanks can use them, but that other classes can abuse them. like prophetic cloak was a nice item for tanks but them you get mid laners buying the item and one other mitigations item and suddenly assassins can't do their job anymore. Or liek in the older days where they had to take berserkers shield away from hunters cause it was meant for a aa warrior hybrid item but hunters were the ones who ended up abusing the item the most.

[@anthonyk3952]

So many good Warrior items were gutted or even outright removed specifically because of how well Hunters could abuse them. It got so bad that not only did they have to divide items based on physical/magical power, but also had to sub-divide the some of the physical power items specifically to be melee only.

[@lordmew5]

Agreed which is why more defensive item passive should scale based on protections.i remember I played a game a few weeks ago pre contagion nerf and the whole team had it but if the passive damage increased with defense it would be more fair.

[@matthewharding584]

And benevolence when they would give man stack it in game modes.

[@tankwfw]

I think they should make certain tank items class dependent UNLESS you build Lono's Mask or some other item that reduces your damage.

[@pierreshi6102]

then just restrict the items to melee only. problem solved.

[@ZemzyOseris]

My main problem with tank item in Year 10 isn't with tanks. I'm completely fine with them being extremely hard to kill, even with mitigations. My problem is that the protection auras are too strong. Having a mage, hunter, or assassin with nearly 130+ of both protections while next to their support is just stupid.

[@CJAuckland95]

For me the cause of a lot of this is Hi-Rez having no clue which direction to take solo laners. You remove hybrid items which offered options to deal damage and build prots with the trade off that you wouldn’t be as tanky nor deal as much damage and instead make tanks reliant on starter and proc items which anyone can abuse to the same effect with little trade off. This means that those items get nerfed to little detriment to other roles, but to huge detriment for solo laners.

[@xuxon24]

And I was laughing today when people were saying we were in a tank meta. Full defense yesterday I was running for my life as a herc against an izanami full build that no matter if I connected all my kit she was destroying me like I had 0 defense. I think that it's going to be back to assassins with damage like scaryd did with camazotz this past weekend.

[@hartmann4710]

Thats something i hate dearly about hi rez, they often nerf something AND buff its counterpart in the same patch and then everyones wondering "Wheres the tanks?" Or their habit of nerfing items over gods that abuse items. Rest in peace Bancrofts Claw. I miss you on my Tia and Chang'e builds every day.

[@Salpetersaure]

Half the problem is that hi rez won’t make bruiser items only for tanks. So many issues would get solved if non-tank classes couldn’t build things like cloak. With the TTK nerfs it’s so boring playing against a mage with a defence item and then tablet with soul reaver so they mitigate half your dmg whilst absolutely blasting you with true dmg and health dmg procs…

[@dbforlifedbz]

Glad someone bringing this back up

[@silverYolo]

hot take, tanks should be like khumba was when they introduced the earrings (not necessarily as spammy). tanks should be tanky CC monsters.

[@animelover333100]

Honestly dude? Thank you for being honest here. Tanks have been getting shit on for years, and as soon as we get a slight possibility of fighting back and making it so DPS players have to actually think instead of running to tower and spamming skills, they shit on us again. People know the tank role needs to be buffed somehow, but they don't wanna leave their confort zone and learn how to deal with tanks, so they will always speak out against it despite knowing they shouldn't.

[@nairobi8056]

God forbid DPS characters actually need to practice positioning. They just get carried by dumping their kit into everyone and winning.

[@HobbolinGobbolin]

Sigil was such a nice starter was refreshing to use a starter that wasn't a normal set in stone one, a mitigation cap should've been a thing rather. Went from a fun start and wanting to play a tank to just being painful real fast with every patch. Especially in guardians, where it seems like a warrior mitigates and shreds enemy backline was more than a guardian.

[@-aurality-7928]

I don't see where sigil was nerfed, In game it is still as it was? Unless text is wrong.

[@Xantrahx]

​@@-aurality-7928 I think its either a bonus patch thats yet to be released or a bug in text. Other items that were mentioned to have changed in 10.2 remained the same in text from what I know at least.

[@-aurality-7928]

@@Xantrahx that's bad lmao

[@serghonest9]

Mitigation would have to cap at least at 70% to even be viable. If a carry crits you by 1000 you only would only get 300. So he would have to hit you +12 times to kill you

[@-aurality-7928]

@@serghonest9 You used to be able to do 100% tiamat if you fought 3 or more enemies at once or something like that

[@Malstrx]

I think the solution to this is decreasing the damage overall in smite. Slow down the damaging classes and remove some damage from items that make tanks able to 2 shot squishes. It would create so much more wiggle room for balance and limit frustration points as well as rewarding consistently good play over lucky ambushes

[@TFoxhound]

But I want to build thebs and only need 1 or 2 damage items to 100 to 0 the enemy in a 1 v 2 its a fair fight then

[@brandonuzumaki]

I have an idea kinda similar to yours, but the oposite, mantain this level of damage, or even increase it on certain gods, then remove the CDR mechanic completely, abilities hit super hard, but if you miss you are fucked, gota wait the full 8-10 seconds before using it again. This would also reward good play and patience, but certain skills would need some changes to be balanced (lower or bigger CD's, more or less range/radius, etc). Biggest problem with this is that it could make the game more boring maybe? And how would they balance auto-atack gods in a meta like that too?

[@TFoxhound]

@Brandon Uzumaki your describing OW 1.5 they removed alot of cc and well you see how it's going for them balance wise. 1 team comp or throw smite has double or triple the amount characters to play

[@brandonuzumaki]

I would also remove all proc items, or nerf the crap out of them, your main form of damage should be your skills, it's literally what defines your character, but nowadays they only serve to proc yellow damage, specially on Mages.

[@brandonuzumaki]

​@@TFoxhound CDR is Cooldown Reduction, nothing to do with Crowd Control, i think CC in Smite is fine for now. That's one of the problems with current meta, too much spam, certain Mages can miss their entire kit, hit one auto, get an assist and reset almost all their cooldowns (Desolation). You have Mages in the late game that can use an ability every 2 or 3 seconds because of that, it's good because it keeps the game more fun and fast paced, but it's bad because damage and AoE spam is not fun to play against, specially for front liners/melee characters.

[@peytontrahan2147]

I think a lot of the problems as well is that supports don’t really peel for back lines so it leads to the idea that solo lanes are too strong. When in reality they should lose to a solo that is running in the back scot free

[@FuzenHua]

Pretty much 90% of people who play support don’t know how to support lol

[@kinesissado9636]

I think smite has been getting a little lost in the weeds in reference to the point of a warrior-tank (canonical solo). The point is for the role to be the og bruiser and their damage should be over time (ie not really felt to begin with but compounds the longer you stay boxing with them). There’s a careful interplay when calculating how much damage they should do with how much damage they should be able to tank. Essentially a warrior-tank should be resistant to burst damage (at least at initial stage of engagement) but highly susceptible to dps. In addition, a warrior-tank damage should be linearly-compounded over time (with damage per time being constant and total damage being a function of time in engagement), tanks should not have things like pen, true damage, etc built into items geared towards them. In fact, other than in specific cases, the only tanks that should be rewarded for building damage should be off-role guardian-tanks that can afford it because of their higher base defenses. If hirez wanted to fix the tank problem they would clearly define tank-warriors role by removing the base cdr and replacing it with mitigation that diminishes over length of engagement. They would also either remove anti heal from mage items (which would negatively impact mage adc/jungles) or switch anti heal so it doesn’t affect health regen

[@Xantrahx]

Holy shit finally someone put it into words. The balance chart between classes is just completely destroyed. Also, congratulations on 100K subs, you deserve it.

[@Spyro2292]

This is true with most games, players that enjoy playing supportive tanky roles are often the minority compared to people that just want to brain dead dominate the game by left clicking. And when i say that I don't mean adc is a brain dead role, just that it often requires less thought when it comes to base combat. You literally just let click and aim. Regardless main point being every game in my experience does this, they side with the Dps players because they're the majority and dunk on the tanks.

[@Rampage1Rules]

If you're brain-dead you'll get 1 shot , ADCs have to position themselves very well or your useless

[@aidenbarna5406]

I joined smite in late season 6 around the time olorun was the newest god, and in all the time I’ve been playing I don’t think I’ve ever felt truly tanky. I might be able to body block 2 or 3 crits to help my adc or mage get away but I’m going to die for it. I’ve never walked into a fight any been able to absorb so much the amount of damage that I felt like it was worth building a full defense build but at the same time If I build hybrid Ive never felt like ive done the damage to justify losing that bit of tankyness

[@ZeroKOR1]

this right here

[@TheillustriousBanana]

as someone who religiously plays tanks I completely agree. We had our chance to finally shine again and be a by-the-books tank without having to build power or any of the bruiser items (some of which that got nerfed into the floor or reworked to irrelevancy or just flat out removed in 10.1) Contagion and Archdruids were fair nerfs, and I get why people dislike a tank W keying your face in and all you can do is cry against the mitigation stacking builds, but in response Qins is back to removing tanks from the game and Tablet of Destines getting a nutty buff. Plus, let's not forget the itemization. Those double defense items and or mitigation items were all we had since they completely purged the Magical defense tree of any decent items. Talisman is a more supportive item, as well as Absolution. Bulwark got deleted. Stone of Binding got nerfed so that it's early game is irrelevant and only worth picking up in the mid to late (3-6 item). Genji is alright but doesn't feel impactful enough, Shogun's is some dog, Oni Hunter's is actually viable and good again. Winged Blade is one of my new favorite items with its change but its defense is pitiful. All in all, I don't appreciate them neutering tank - again.

[@tankwfw]

Interesting to hear different perspectives from people I respect. Heard alot of pros say mages are tank killers and that the whole tank meta is bs. Also heard the opposite. As a support main I just want to be tanky, soak dmg for my team, and CC the other team while protecting my guys. I don't care if I'm doing alot of damage.

[@sushiroll3795]

God, I have such mixed opinions on this as a support main. On one hand, I wholeheartedly agree that stat bloat is out of control and the devs often overcorrect when nerfing tanks. On the other hand, the self-victimization routine from other tank mains has gotten incredibly grating and, considering how many of y'all seem to be super nostalgic for Season 2, I'm worried that a decent chunk of people won't be satisfied until tanks are actually broken.

[@TheKnightOfSmite]

Just thought it was worth mentioning but at the height of tank meta and mitigation builds quite a sizable portion of RSmite was praising this as the best meta where tanks "finally were balanced" and "capable of fighting" and "finally have the respect we deserve" The moment you pointed out that they mitigated 500,000 damage in a game and that hunters as a class were useless they'd crucify you or "good riddance", it's tribalism at that point and I say this as someone that plays tanks

[@AndrewH1994]

Hi-Rez overcorrected the season 10 launch, and forgot that mitigations were an issue last season when they changed Lono’s mask to be a starter item so solo assassins couldn’t build full mitigation, but this time they let every class get 80%+ mitigation if they want it. the real issue that Inter mentioned is a hard cap on mitigations. probably 30-40% then those items can be strong at doing what they do but they can’t be stacked. but because Hi-Rez has seemingly decided that there shouldn’t be a cap on mitigation, then they really did need to gut these tank items because it was simply becoming the meta and it wasn’t going to go away on its own

[@dronnovik95]

@@TheKnightOfSmite well of course tank players say that broken mitigation meta is best and most fun for them. Coz they play for the broken side. Same as powerbased assasins and ao quan players enjoy game right now. Btw of course owerbloating adc items with stats is an issue and full builds are quite overpowered. But one should mention that getting there is absolute misery, coz in any point of the game before full build, you are getting oneshot by anything while tickling others to death, hoping they would ignore you to focus down your team assasin and mage, for you can finaly get atleast some gold. There is a reason ppl play mage adc all the time now

[@stormraingreen7543]

Only idiots want that stupidity back. It is massive issue that it is too easy to counter tanking with almost zero downside. Damages are at the point of not having to choose between deleting squishies or tanks. They just slaughter both effectively with little issue. Mages less so but they are getting there. If this trends continues like it has done previously. Tanks will forgoe tank items to build damage as there will be no point in building tank... again.

[@welfareacquirer2046]

Adc and mage players are the whiniest people on the planet. They will complain about warriors until they are completely unplayable so i dont give their opinions much thought

[@FiddyBee]

just to clear on tablet...it was buffed by 75% not "almost 60%"

[@Phantom-bh5ru]

Yea “almost 60%” nah may it’s “almost double”

[@thespongemonkey]

This has been a thing I've noticed recently, espically on jungles. Jungles, a class that is supposed to be diving backliners while avoiding tanks, like, literally the entire gimmick of the class is that your supposed to position in a way where you can get past the tanks to quickly shred to backline to try to end the game could go Bumba's Spear-Soul Eater-Hydras-Crusher and have 40% pen without BUILDING AN ITEM DESIGNED TO KILL TANKS. Like, if all those items had flat pen instead of percent pen, they would still be good at what they do, but hydras and soul eater would ACTUALLY BE BETTER SINCE THEY ARE BOTH EARLY GAME. Soul eater might actually get built on Junglers instead of solo's if it had flat instead of percent pen. But no, instead of making items overall better, they are made specifically to hurt tanks. Even if you don't want to do the build listed above, you can still build Titans bane instead of Bumba's and soul eater, or hell even heartseaker sicne it ISN'T YOUR JOB TO KILL TANKS ANYWAYS AND 30 PERCENT PEN SHOULD BE 30% MORE THAN YOU NEED. I'm not saying there shouldn't be percent pen items for every class, you need those in case the whole enemy team builds tank, but it shouldn't be on half the damage items in the game, and it definitely shouldn't be on ones you would be building anyways.

[@Polevolter]

I think HiRez try to over-correct WAY TOO MUCH. It’s like the trauma from the Dirty Bubble meta is still fresh & so they would rather have tank items be awful than to risk going through that again. But the irony of this is that this isn’t a problem caused by tanks. It’s always been a problem with other classes that have their base damage up so high.

[@vc559]

Why are you focusing on Solos only, ignoring the fact supports has this problem too, plus they are ussualy 2-3 lvls behing that makes them completely squishy against late game dds

[@MaskedHades]

Feels like the only way to balance this which would also be a “kill joy” would be to class lock the items. I remember when, can’t remember pro smite players name, had the brilliant item of combining void shield with berserks to not only provide mitigations to themselves but also have an aura protection reduction combined with Executioners and Qins which got so bad that Berserkers was class locked from hunters and I think the same happen to void as well. Just my own opinion as a “resolution” cause it definitely would deter fun builds and also promote a constant flow of “here are the same basic items you must build else you won’t do anything” building patterns as tanks ( supports and solos alike ) and ADC’s in my opinion build universally the same with only assassins and mages getting to cherry pick their builds.

[@Elzzaw]

They're done this with a lot of items. Hastened Fatalis being class locked to assassins' sword tree because it was insane on hunters being a prime example. I am absolutely fine with class locked items as long as there is a very good reason for doing it.

[@HookahOtaku]

@@Elzzaw What other reason do you need? They cant balance this game still after 10 long years. Why? because they are too lazy to just handle role itemization individually. Guardians get their own item trees, hunters their own as well, etc etc, that way, no items that were designed for bruisers arent used and abused by hunters or assassins. They can specifically balance to address specific problem items that will ONLY affect the roles involved. They can reuse items like certain damage items or just adjust their version based on the role, that way you cant abuse itemization. This will cut down the balance nightmare of this game by a significant margin. How are these devs so lazy to just fix the root issue.

[@pawrsley]

I agree that sigil and archdruid's fury were both over-nerfed and that they should introduce a mitigation cap instead of just plainly nerfing mitigation items, since it would help against stuff like Ravana building mitigation and being unkillable even in the fountain.

[@Djerun8]

i personally am gonna be honest here. I cant play a single other role outside of Support/solo. I tried many many times. I even turn non Tank characters into tanks, if they have the right kit or items for it. Cause i cant for the love of it play any squishies. And Qin's was allways an item i hated the most. Sure they made everyone tankier, raising max hp and so on. But Qin's just see's this and probably says: I can do alot more dmg now. Its just so stupid dedicating your whole build to being tanky, and to peel for your team, trying to bodyblock some autoattack or non-piercing abilities from the enemies, and get absolutely fucked for it anyway. Where is the point in having maxed out defenses and like 4k hp, when you die just as quickly as your hunter or assasine does. Its honestly upsetting

[@MySkilletfan]

Any time I feel bad about tanks I just remember all the pain double tank put me through in joust

[@pastasempa]

I sure enjoyed my time playing cu chu solo... Now i am back to loki.

[@animelover333100]

Literally me playing Achilles a few weeks before... Back to Xbal we go.

[@xRagingxDemonx]

Mitigations isn't the problem. It's the damage output while not taking any damage. Nerf the damage. Even if you have to rebalance every single character. Tanks should have low base damage but high scaling, or scale off of defense / Hp or split scaling. Keep targets out of the fight. Not kill them outright by yourself with 1 and a half rotation of your abilities. If they're going to keep the easily accessible amount of % pen and keep tanks as bigger/slower squishy targets then they need to provide the means to survive long enough through the engagements. They nerfed Sigil's healing to be the same amount as it's base starter amount. That and it's mitigations need to be reverted. Reduce or remove the power from the item. Allow the item to be a warriors option of they just don't want to take much damage and survive most if not every fight. Which is only possible pairing it with prophetic (fully stacked) oni hunters, and spirit robe. Even then a well build hunter and mage easily kills you. Otherwise, what's the point in having a tank dive the backline?? We might as well just pick Sylvanus, Yemoja, and/or Ganesha and slowly pick off the frontline every teamfight.

[@esleyb7968]

Everyone says tank op but nobody wants to play tanks :\

[@scalpingsnake]

Everyone says tanks OP but then I get Loki in solo and aphro is support xD

[@ZeroKOR1]

Tanks so OP you go 10 games without seeing a warrior unless its a Jungle trolling

[@Altcor]

i find it sad how last season, as a tank main, it felt like there was nothing i could do about burst and raw damage. We finally can live thru a fight past 25 mins in the game and people want tanks nerfed. cool 👍

[@hadiseblani29]

Heartseeker is also worse on tanks now too 👍

[@ThePikeOfDestiny]

i don't play this game at all but i have a deep seated hatred towards adc players so i'm going to assume what you're saying is right and leave a like

[@mrdhong2143]

Yeah adc players are the same in a lot of mobas they cry about their class being underpowered all the time even though they do the most dps of any class just by using basic attacks

[@ThePikeOfDestiny]

@@mrdhong2143 fr its wack. like its a class that excels at shredding towers and jungle bosses it's like the best PvE class in the game and they get mad when it's not able to also be insane at PvP constantly

[@LunarisLacrima]

the real issue imo was that every good tank item has super low cost with 300+ hp with protections. It took a while to counter that as a damage dealer on season 10 launch, though now especially seeing the changes mentioned it definitely seems like they swung back really hard. It needs to feel fun to play tanks and accessible or else we just won't get people locking them in.

[@manurr5287]

If you don't have DMG how the fuck you gonna kill the backline, they adc crybabies have, %penetration, life steal, crits, %health DMG, absurd attack speed, wow Achilles can make 45. Extra DMG with glad shield that so broken ajajja

[@tankwfw]

They're cheap because they're supposed to be primarily picked up by support players who don't get the farm that solo's and jungle's do. As usual support players are the ones who get the shaft when Hi-Rez responds to the screechers who whine about tank meta.

[@kevinbarber2795]

@@tankwfw this

[@HookahOtaku]

@@tankwfw solutions have been offered and hirez refuses to just lock items behind roles. If they did that, supports dont get shafted, warriors dont get shafted because DPS Roles are abusing their dedicated items. How does anyone still argue against role locked itemization? the partial crap we have now is a start, but not enough, not enough at all. All items need to be role locked to avoid the root issues of innocent roles getting shafted over nerfs or buffs.

[@Bundo315]

I understand frustration about late game hunters being strong, but if they weren't good late game when are they supposed to be good? It sure isn't early/mid game where a mage adc folds them, or where the jungler or solo is folding them. At end game if the support isn't glued to the adc they also just die to the jungle or mid anyways, you complain about tablet of destinies (which is well deserved) but it kills squishies just as easily. That 1k damage merlin ability to a tank does 2k to a hunter then if the solo does literally anything the adc dies. Tanks having to play as a team instead of w key in and get kills is healthy for the game.

[@thelarryfaat8535]

as an adc main i hated early season 10. I basically had to play olarun or sol adc everygame because hunters were so weak. I would deal 58 dmg per auto to a sobek at lvl 15 or so and the dmg discrepency was so huge that no support peel could change that since it would take me minutes to kill him. Its just unfun when you can easily 1v2 and get away for 90% of the game until the other player gets to like 14g gold and 35min. Maybe you can do that in conquest but hunters were unplayable in modes like 3v3 where the game would just be over before you could deal any dmg to tanks.

[@blankx15]

If Hirez is worried about an item being abused by other roles that they dont intend to. Then make it so gods would have bonus stats based on their category and not just a general stat increase all over the board.

[@Hawkissimo]

Umm, they do in year 10.

[@deadlymind2622]

This makes gods unable to do other roles as well, imo assasins and mages shouldnt be able to build heavy supp items, and before you say they cant do solo or supp now, in most scenarios assasins or mages in those roles just build dmg with 1 or 2 defense items

[@DanielSanchez-ho6uj]

Backlaners just want to build the exact same build every match and dealing the same damage without having to think if it it’s a tank or not. And at the same time want the tanks to be forced to play more as utility role since in late there is no way to be tank

[@christhenerd2691]

This is going to be a hot take, but I wish there was a tank meta not a tank item meta. People abuse Glad shield and Contagion way too much with mitigation and it's super boring cause you have to play w key tanks or play tank shredding mages or assassins with "Yellow number" builds. A lot of items in general just need nerfs.

[@evrypixelcounts]

Mitigations have been busted for seasons now. I used to throw tons of mitigations on Bacchus to mitigate 100,000+ damage in a match. I can see how that'd be problematic, but I miss when tanks felt. . .ya know, tanky It's kinda like how shields were the meta for a while, because they increased your effective health and were immune to lifesteal, and then got nerfed hard.

[@LazarouDave]

Part of why I packed in the game again, in my group, I am the tank guy - it's no fun getting shredded everywhere I go and not being able to put any meaningful damage in. Tanks without helpful CC are basically pointless, and like you're playing with a man down

[@scalpingsnake]

Glad someone is actually speaking about this. Hopefully the conversation can remain constructive. I like everyone am bias, I am a tank main. I do try and see it from carries perspective of course as I do play those roles from time to time. The main issue is because often we all argue based off feelings and not facts. Lets not pretend like this issue is easy either, Hi rez effectively are mediators trying to balance the roles, while keeping the game interesting and fun. I think the biggest issue is how people often base it off a poor sample size. They get their ass blasted by a mitigation Cu and think tanks are broken. And while I am not saying the mit build shouldn't have been nerfed I am just saying there are so many variables that go into a moba like this; it's not so black and white. What your comp is, what their comp is, what your overall objective is, how well each individual lane plays all goes into who will win. Nuance which is often lost in the casual and ranked ecosystem.

[@_no_7185]

Reflecting back I actually enjoyed this tanglier meta made games go longer and added more skill in manuvering team fights. I hope that the tank needs stop along with the dps buffs. This is the first time I’m having fun fr I dont think tanks dealing dmg is bad I think that the swiftness of their kill time going up though isn’t fair, I got killed in 2 secs by a solo full tank Bacchus. Not fun.

[@Elzzaw]

The problem is that there are many tanks who aren't viable right now due to the way itemization is. The less mobile tanks are walking stat pads for hunters.

[@pierrecourtois5167]

Do you sometimes wonder if Smite treats balance like it treats skin releases ? Better butter up the most played gods to keep them paying in the game ?

[@MrJmoney726]

I hate the nerfs to sigil and archdruids fury more than anything. With archdruids they just completely and utterly killed that item and made in completely worthless when it was a great item for tanks to fight back against these hyper damage squishies. With sigil it was a high risk high reward item. You practically get bullied all of the early game with weak clear and poke in exchange for being a super tank late game, but they decided that tanks cant even have fun for half of a patch without major incoming nerfs its ridiculous.

[@chancepeterson6346]

As a Support main this speaks to me on a spiritual level

[@iTzJonko]

Good video and your focus on the changes and the meta was spot on. I think you describe the hunter options perfectly as which options they should have build wise focussed on auto attacks. I do hope hi rez nerfs the true damage on mages since it is ridiculous right now. I hope they implement the mitigation cap, maybe even start at 50% and just revert the items to see whats happening. At the start of the season I felt like tanks are way too strong but feel like they are now close to be in a good spot. For some reason mages and assassins are more threatening to them than hunters which is weird to me. Perhaps hi rez should work from a perfect ideal on how the different roles and classes compare to each other and what they should do. From that point of view worked out you could take a look at the current meta and start adjusting from there. I hope in the future more items will be added to provide more build paths so you can adapt better for each role to each match up every game

[@nobbytheskeleton9919]

tanks with sigil weren't necessarily what got it nerfed, i think. i didn't play very much in 10.1 but i was seeing a lot of ADCs building it for the survivability (and because the hunter starters kinda sucked at that point), so it probably got nerfed because hi rez saw that and didn't want to buff the likes of death's toll and arrow.

[@enddr6475]

i think the biggest problem with tablet is how often it can proc. it only has a cooldown of 2. increasing the cooldown for stacking/procing the item should be a decent start. another thing could be that similair to book of thoth, the passive will only take account of mana thats build from items. meaning you have to actually invest into those items more.

[@ladainianwatson]

The exact point I had before going into this video was the point about sigil I don’t think there was one time last season I had a thought of getting sigil unless i was going a meme infused sigil blow-up build, get buffed finally gets bought and considered over blue stone and axe NOPE gg sigil going right back to being niche because now at least with the nerf it’s still a little better than last season

[@matthewcochrane9499]

People really seem to not understand Dominance with qins. Dominance does not give pen to qins or obow so this buff will bring qins back to what it was like last season. That’s also why crit is basically the only thing hunters build, they don’t have a 20% pen item anymore that helps yellow numbers

[@k3kmeister]

And people will still complain that tanks are op

[@tankadamka]

As a tank main in every game mode I'm Jack absolute sadness.

[@deadeyewolf777]

my entire build goal in the solo lane has been to cap prots in 5 items or less including glad shield and build a damage item. I usually end up using tainted breastplate and the heart ward glyph to do this it feels entirely necessary . I just do not feel threatening other wise.

[@Elzzaw]

You are right that solos need to build hybrid just to be useful now since building full tank is completely pointless. Even with capping prots you still get melted. I'm liking the new Runeforged passive as a filler item. Especially on Nike, since all 3 of her base abilities proc it. Also did a zhong build with tablet, ethereal, soul reaver, cyclopian, sundering axe and archdruids which absolutely shredded even tanks with a single ability+auto.

[@osteopathichomeopathicking6154]

11:28 yup. What do tanks have now to counter? We could mitigate some of the critical damage with Spectral Armor, negate the Qin's Sais attack speed with Midgardian (after 3 attacks) and 12% dmg mitigation with Oni's Hunters Garb n ideal conditions. When I'm vs a hunter with that build you've posted, I RUN. Spectral Armor PASSIVE - You take 40% reduced bonus damage from Physical Critical Strikes. When you are hit by a Critical Strike, you and allies within 55 units take an additional 5% reduced bonus damage from Physical Critical Strikes, stacking up to 4 times and lasting for 8s. +60 PHYSICAL PROTECTION +200 HEALTH +300 MANA +10 MP5 Midgardian Mail PASSIVE - Enemies that successfully land a basic attack on you have their Movement Speed and Attack Speed reduced by 8% for 2 seconds. This effect can stack up to 3 times and can stack with other item slow effects. +300 HEALTH +50 PHYSICAL PROTECTION PASSIVE - For each enemy God within 55 units of you, you gain a stack of 4% damage mitigation. This caps at 3 stacks. +150 HEALTH +60 MAGICAL PROTECTION +30 MP5 +20% CROWD CONTROL REDUCTION Oni's Hunter Garb PASSIVE - For each enemy God within 55 units of you, you gain a stack of 4% damage mitigation. This caps at 3 stacks. +150 HEALTH +60 MAGICAL PROTECTION +30 MP5 +20% CROWD CONTROL REDUCTION

[@noisypr6048]

Been a solo lane main since season 3, and i can tell you Year 10 has been a nightmare to play in the solo, especially in the late game, like the poking face of a fight is more of the "go back to fountain cause you are one shot" phase, like 3 aa from a hunter and you are done

[@ZeroKOR1]

you just dont have the right build... I know you have 3 mitigation items and max prots but did you build spectral tho/s

[@noisypr6048]

@@ZeroKOR1 bruh i build spectral 3rd to 4th item, about the time i start to gank mid and duo to take GF

[@ZeroKOR1]

@@noisypr6048 you know /s means sarcasm right.

[@HookahOtaku]

The fundamental problem is Hirez/Titan being LAZY. They need to stop sharing items between class types. This allows the devs to create dedicated tanky damage items that have POWER and protections for WARRIORS for example. Not assasins, not hunters that can abuse the items. This simply LAZINESS. No way around it. You cant have warriors be juggernaught tanks(With ONLY Tank items) and W into teamfights and effortlessly kill carries. You HAVE to build damage and SACRIFICE SOME tankiness. Its a paradox really, that one patch where tanks were impossible to kill and they would win games fast before carries got online, it was stupid. unfun, them they overnerfed tank items again. They need to stop sharing items between roles. Stop being lazy dammit.

[@xrain90]

As a Warrior main it sucked playing them in season 9, and it's starting to suck in season 10, for the reasons you mentioned. I feel like a crash test dummy, not fun at all. The cost of engaging in a team fight and trying to deal significant damage is not worth the pay off as much.

[@sirborkton8451]

With the new mage builds that I’ve been seeing, which puts estaff on it to steal health which is straight up more powerful than like anything imo, it’s gonna be another rough one for tanks again

[@ZeroKOR1]

To be honest we will probably only see like 3 warriors be viable again, and maybe 2-3 guardians. Looks like another year of jungle Bruisers like the good old days I guess

[@apairoftimbs9292]

i also dont understand the tank hate because certain gods get nerfed and their items but i cant even approach the carries without using my leap or blinking which is on a 120s cd. Then as a tank i need antiheal for the asi, spectral for the crit, which i need to build damn near every game plus using one of the standard starters. tanks really only have 3 slots for items that they can choose from, if you dont include the magical defense item they need to build so the tablet mages with 0 pen melt them

[@Flipnhaole]

A big part of the problem is people constantly propagating tank hate. Weaken is one of the main offenders. His community is so large that his opinions are echoed by them loudly. Fineo is a large creator as well, but he definitely isn’t as vocal about criticisms or complaints. Hirez is gonna hear whoever bitches the loudest

[@norsemanulfenn1956]

Deadass haven't had fun as a tank since like season 4

[@MrPedantic_OG]

Just need to introduce a class item choice set of 5 items like a relic

[@MINUANOGAMING]

To be fair, hunters' class passive is by far the worst because they nerfed the basic attack base damage of hunters in the same patch so you just level up to get back to the same place you were before the patch lol It doesn't even feel like you have a class passive at all

[@hitsuguyathe1]

Yeah it’s definitely a thing, because when hunters or assassins are meta they take like 6 months to nerf it, but when tanks are strong they are nerfed in like a week. Everyone will cry about tank meta but anything else is ok. I’ll admit some items needed nerfs but many just got deleted lol

[@nunuxaos]

everything i think is here, perfect video just one different thing to say about that, tank are not busted, people who complain about tank : 1 : never play tank 2 : get picked and kill against a tank with 3 level ahead on their own and complain 3 : are generally atrocious at the game (and adc / mage main) Also, mitigation have now been nerfed (24% max), i would say, one of the best update they've(the full mit build allow for 1v5 on certain god) But i hope they'll become a bit more careful about nerfing tank and buffing dmg, 9.5 was the worst time for tank main, almost unplayable for gardian and warior

[@noahmayes9159]

I 100% agree, its extremely bad when its a team of mages and adc all with CC, you can't be a tank because it becomes a time to kill match of who can land abilities first to delete the other. So you have no choice but to build power because if you do build tank even when you land your whole kit on the opponent you don't do enough damage so they just burst you down. This is the most frustrating when your team is out of sync and no one can capitalized on you damage soaking. Don't get me started on how diving the back line is suicide for tanks because you are left alone to be deleted because your squishes can't push past the enemy front line and if the do the time to kill for a tank is so short its too late when they finally make it to you.

[@TheCarrionKing27]

I say all us support mains should go on strike. Let's only play AA Kephri and ult ourselves when we die.

[@jonatanluengas898]

In slash and arena everyone firsts picks up to four damage dealers, leaving me to last pick a tank. It should be the other way around to win. But we get into game and get four people calling me a sh* t tank. People need to learn how to support and tank before assuming crit first item and missed chronos pendant spams are going to carry a team.

[@Hellothere-ss4jq]

In my experience, it takes two tanks to create enough space for carries to properly function, occasionally just one if the enemy team is terrible. The value of having one or two individuals who don't die easily is massive, as an assassin player I appreciate tanks (on my team, good lord I hate a decent tank on the enemy team)

[@jonatanluengas898]

@@Hellothere-ss4jq yeah I wish more people would pick a god for the team and not for the damage they think they will put out

[@grey984]

Just the other day i had an aracne build full tank, attack speed from berserkers shield, shoguns and (the rod that gives you attack speed on heal) Only damage item was kins She shreded everyone while never dying That is how broken the hunter items are ..But hi rez would see that match and say tank items op

[@aewon2085]

When the tank dives and kills the back line, first reaction tanks are op, may I ask where the support was, ya know, the role that’s suppose to stop said tank from diving and killing the back line??? Oh and more, that mitigation build that got nerfed cause you couldn’t kill the tank, just build deaths embrace and now the tank can’t kill you either What luck have I lost to find this right when it comes out

[@scalpingsnake]

Yeah exactly. Also if the mid/adc group up and just hit whoever is in front of them they are instantly way more threatening. As a solo, if I am fighting the backline with a support peeling for them with Heroism... it sucks.

[@qyline8008]

You don't even need death's embrace, you can easily fit in an Asi because it has power and attackspeed alongside the insane amounts of lifesteal it provides

[@gabrielpraslin9576]

Death's toll upgrades are so bad they get sold late game for more pen/crit. The only ones building that are auto attack warriors

[@aewon2085]

@@qyline8008 the reason for deaths embrace is it doesn’t care about the damage dealt to the target, lifesteal does care about the damage. That why when you can’t do damage to the target for your lifesteal to be effective you get deaths embrace to survive the dive You have 0 DPS when your dead

[@aewon2085]

@@gabrielpraslin9576 you miss the point, against the mitigation build where your damage so low your barely life stealing off the tank, that’s when deaths embrace is useful, it’s not for the damage it’s the utility of max HP healing, that resulting in you out healing the tank cause that mitigation build did low damage but your damage against the mitigation build is also low If the tank doesn’t go mitigation build yeah, sell it I guess. I’m no adc main, but as a tank I’ve seen the difference between hitting an adc with death embrace with the pre nerf mitigation build and when they sell it Deaths embrace I can’t touch, sold deaths embrace is a fairly easy target

[@salvos98]

In a full def solo game i got hit for 900 from merlin 1+ 900 from merlin 2+500 from tablet + soul reaver= more than 2k damage on a 300 magical def 3k hp

[@ZeroKOR1]

this is when you need to go just 2-3 tank items, a hard engage god, and 3 damage items. jump that bitch after he blinks and watch him cry

[@martyr7595]

Literally a month ago, with original state tablet, my morgana build was poking for 1500 an ability. Literally insane amount of damage on magi AND assassins are just as bloated right now. I'm not even sure it's an issue with tanks not being tanky and/or doing a lot of damage (sigil nerf aside) but just the raw damage on the table is a crime against humanity. Squishies literally race each other to one shot each other, and that's it

[@xraidev]

Tanks op, tanks op… then why are mages and assassins still by far the most popular classes? If anything, tanks should be slightly stronger on average to incentivize people to play support instead of people desperately trying to trade the support role in every ranked game. For the first time ever in smite I was actually enjoying playing guardians and warriors and then they just nerf it all into the ground… I think because much of the player base plays mages and assassins, those will always get the best treatment in the meta because it keeps the most people happy. But even at the launch of season 10 I was seeing full damage Thanatos’ go off for 30 kills and carry games, not the tanks who were a bit harder to kill late game and finally did a little damage. I really hope hi-rez takes an honest look at what changes make smite the most fun rather than what changes will appease the most fans

[@xraidev]

This is coming from an assassin/jungle main

[@animelover333100]

Because playing tank requires brain cells. Adc and mages don't.

[@animelover333100]

People wanna trade support so desperately BECAUSE tanks are fucking weak and don't do much throughout the game. Playing support for most people is boring since at lvl 3 they can't spam skills and do 200 dmg like a lvl 2 mage.

[@chrisa.2323]

I don't understand how people think 3 seconds or less time to kill is at all fun. Longer fight times is so much funner imo. Entire game mechanics like lifesteal and cooldowns might as well not exist when the ttk is Call of Duty levels.

[@theprinceofgaming1545]

I'm going to offer some thoughts here from the perspective of a backliner (mid lane). 1. Tablet is dumb. Tbh I think it should be rebalanced to a solo guardian/mage item since I don't mind them having true damage but building this on agni for example and getting two procs for free with a bomb over the wall+passive just feels bad to be hit by and just makes you laugh at yellow numbers more than anything. 2. Hunters are not better than ever now even with qins buff, mage ADCs just out class them and every regard and ability shred items like crusher, bluestone, and heartseeker are just better. Insert that one Hachiman build that was ran at playins that was bluestone/crusher/heartseeker and won because thats just better than AA items until you are 6 slotted with a glyph. If hunters were in their best state ever they'd still be getting played in mid as well like they were most of last season. 3. And that above point is part of why I think people are complaining. At the start of the video you mentioned how hunters are supposed to shred tanks and mages kill squishes, now it's kinda the opposite. Between Book Of Thoth, Tablet, and Reaver you don't even need a %pen item in your build. Magus is more effective for damage than any 20% pen option rn when it comes to the top mages like Merlin, Tiamat, Agni, and MLF. Hel is also up there but she just builds 2-3 tank items (Lotus and Regrowth, sometimes Binding) and zooms around the map with 10% prot shred+25 flat (plus 20 more flat if binding was bought, why can she do this shes actually doing true damage) and 600 movement speed. Hunters either have to dedicate 4-5/6 slots to pen. By the end of play-ins the ADC build was asi>exe>qins>dom>demon blade>deathbringer and it wasn't until deathbringer that they were doing decent damage to tanks, or dropping deathbringer for titans bane (an ability item) just to have more %pen. Issue there is with Qins since that item doesn't deal true damage so prots as a tank do a good job at mitigating the item so ADCs need real %pen and Dominance adds 15% to autos only so it doesn't effect qins damage. When I complain about Tank damage it's normally with bluestone or tablet. Glad feels fine rn tbh but I don't like taking 400 from bluestone then 300 from glad on top of it. Or 200 from glad and 650 from tablet when it comes to guardian solos. I think the issue is that no one in smite is doing their own damage anymore. ADC damage comes from qins, mage damage comes from reaver/tablet along with soul gem and now divine, assassins have crusher/heartseeker and now bluestone is running rampant in jungle and solo laners have bluestone as well. I'm to the point where I'm not even afraid of gods anymore. They don't pose a threat since they aren't going to deal any damage their items are going to do it all for them even in my own role. Yellow numbers were funny at first but dealing 50-75% of my damage that way is starting to get tiring. I want to be able to be threatened by tanks but as of now I'm only threatened because if they hit me once I'm going to take more damage from procs than anything else.

[@somebodyontheinternet1090]

Remember 70 magic prots stone of gia? Those were the days lol

[@cybzer0560]

11:50 Qins Buff No one: Genetics: "WHAAAT?! WHAT DO YOU MEAN HUNTERS?! WHYYY?! WHAT!?" From his stream watching the patch notes lol

[@Emerold7777]

I know its a silly question... What song is playing for your outro?

[@iweeblul]

I was never a fan of playing tanky, mage and assassin playstyles are my favorites and I never saw tanks as problem. Hell, have you ever been a hyper-late game ADC? Just be well positioned and left click occasionally, things will vanish and that is ridiculous. The times when warriors/tanky solo laners were barely viable were hell, the most obnoxious meta I've ever seen in smite.

[@mastergs32]

hopefully someone from hirez sees your video and maybe they revert some of the nerfs, like the one on sygil. good points all around!

[@ayaasagari5505]

I do think Qins, crit, and Tablet are too much to be honest. But I also don't think tanks should be able to demolish a team just because bluestone can do 500 damage with a single button press. It's like fighting an assassin but they take considerably less damage.

[@poro8917]

Honestly i agree on the sigil of the old guard comment The item alone wasnt the problem, as said its only when grouped together, (let alone a god that has inkit mitigation) 1-2 items alone isnt bad, but when it becomes a mitigations white couch moment then its to much,

[@BrutalOverride]

Also please send this video to hirez, honestly it's crazy to think about the apes that come out with these updates.

[@StrengthOfADragon13]

Personally it seems odd that in a meta where if a support is peeling a solo has to run for their life people are choosing to blame solo lane items for them dying to the solo laner instead of the rampant lack of supports that help their backline (or backline that understand how to work with a support to deal with the dive, don't run from your support when they are trying to lock down the solo laner running at you). Teamfights have felt complex and balanced for a a while now, back when solo was building hybrid I felt I had to be very careful to engage because if the support could slow me down I was instantly dead, now I don't instantly die but have to go unchecked for a while to do enough damage. A full cycle of solo abillities including ult does at most 60% to a squishy late game, not to mention you can use relics to make that 0% or kill me while I go on you. Tanks have felt stronger than they used to recently, but they only feel busted when I am ahead of the rest of the map, and even then I'm on a timer before I'm managed again

[@Bowie.]

Hunter main here and tank meta is my favorite. DPS should not be an easy role, IMO. Tanks should be threatening.

[@Rampage1Rules]

They are , a tank CCs you and someone else blows you up

[@EchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEchoEc]

So I'm not that good at smite, nor do I claim that my opinion is right, or even valid; but I want to get my opinion out there, as I feel this impacts me a lot atm. I dont know about everyone else, but the most pepole I see complaining about tanks (Myself Included) are casual players. That is important, because this puts into perspective on why it's seen as such a wide spread problem. Causal players have horrendous match making. Right now it's the worst for me that it's ever been and I don't want to play smite because of it. Every single game is either a stomping fest, or you get stomped. The latter is what happens more often than not, which normally leads to f6's 10-20 minutes into the game. I have no statistics, but I'd bet that most casual games fall within this range, which just so happens to be when tanks are strongest early game. So while item wise, Damage dealers get a lot of stats, that doesn't happen until 4-5 items in, which normally falls within the 15-20 minute mark; which I feel for a lot of casual players, that doesn't happen. This leads to two very distinct, and very shitty game experiences. On the one hand, the casual are getting fucked over by warriors early game due to poor match making, which results in them hating tanks. Then on the flip side, once you do get to late game, damage dealers shred tanks, making you feel like a wet paper noodle despite maxing your protections and having insane health. This sucks, as both sides get bum fucked, and it never feels balance because it never is, either you get fucked by tanks early, or damage dealers fuck you up. The latter affects ranked, pro and higher skill level players, as there matches often go towards the late game more since they have better matchmaking then casuals and have the skills to carry, even with a shitty team. The first one affects casuals more, as they can''t carry 1vs5 like more skilled players can, and there matchmaking is essentially slots, they either hit a jackpot, or lose all there money. Since most pepole play this game for fun, leading to a disproportional inflating of tank hate, because that is what most players experience. Hi-rez doesn't help this, as they often buff damage items and nerf hybrid/tank items, but early game stomping relys heavily on the characters themselves and there high base damage, not the one or two items you have built. These nerfs don't affect tank stomping early game whatso ever, and make late game stomping even worse, as tanks are now paper tigers, while you gave a normal solider a fuckin machine gun on top of his tank-piercing sniper rifle. They exacerbating the problem while fixing none of the core issues. I feel like this would be less of an issue if they toned both sides down. Get rid of the bloated stats on starter items, and nerf the base damage of warriors and tanks. I'm not a game developer, nor that crazy of a smite player, but this is my hot take on this issue. Am I right or wrong?

[@Fenriir]

Honestly I feel this is the truest rant I've heard on the topics you covered in this video and (for what it's worth) I agree 100% with everything you said, but let's face it hirez will only ever listen to and balance the game around whatever the pros say despite the fact they make up less than half of 1% of the total player base