The Technique That Defined A Genre - History of Wavedashing

[@poolturtle5772]

“The thing that separates the filthy casuals from the casually filthy” I like that. That’s a good phrase.

[@bubblegunsoldier7484]

yea... i think im just going to borrow that.

[@brown9671]

no lie that shit went hard

[@Ludvix]

Let’s goooo! Love your guys videos man. Love it when u guys do melee content ontop of it ;)

[@cottony4dr]

I wanna see you play Rivals or Aether again

[@DorrieDude]

YO

[@Ulazcruz]

Ayy my boi Luvdix. How's it happening, champ?

[@willus259]

Tekken Tag player that started in 99 here, while I see that some players are trying to explain what the purpose of Wavedash (WD) was in Tekken (some have said that it's to realign, some have said that it's just simply for movement), they are not the *main* purpose for WDing back then. It was to mainly mask the mixups that Jin (closest equivalent in T7 is Devil Jin) and Kazuya had, you could hit strong low attacks with his Hellsweep(s) (f,n,d,d/f+4) or a properly executed and timed command could get you a mid launcher (WS+2 for Jin, WS+1,2 for Kaz). Definitely not a novelty as mentioned in the vid.

[@zhaoyun255]

I was about to say that. Not to mention Korean Backdash as well.

[@GuysInGreenHats]

WD still serves the same purpose today in t7 though, for almost all characters that can do it. KBD is the most important movement in tekken obvi though.

[@willus259]

@@GuysInGreenHats no doubt, main difference in T7 though is the effectiveness of WD with the given uses.

[@172rkgk]

THANK YOU, was looking for this comment

[@NicholasMakaveli]

When I first saw this I was kinda annoyed he thought wavedashing is for novelty in tekken....like someone wavedashing in ur face not pressing buttons isn't scary af before u get hit with an electric at perfect timing right when u jab

[@aVeryAngryMoth]

You should also cover koopabackdashwaveslidehoverwalkmoonlandings (yes, that’s a real tech in melee)

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

Wait what

[@skeletorthebest7204]

@@陳嘉宇-y4q You’ve never heard of koopabackdashwaveslidehoverwalkmoonlanding?

[@osto9967]

@@skeletorthebest7204 Vital tech for any bowser main

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

@@skeletorthebest7204 Still new in melee , for like 3 years

[@gamieTG]

@@陳嘉宇-y4q Asumsaus has a video about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5zHf3avmKtnfNk

[@TophDaGreat]

I'm unsure if you've ever done a vid on Project M, but if you haven't that would be really cool. Some of the best times I ever had was playing friendlies at PM locals.

[@shinesunarjo3638]

It got cease and desisted by njnento right

[@ThatWolfArrow]

@@shinesunarjo3638 That's only been specualted. No one from the former PM Development Team has confirmed Nintendo's involvement. The community has picked up the reigns of development through the mod Project+. And it's still continuing strong to this day.

[@shinesunarjo3638]

@@ThatWolfArrow good to know

[@livingreverie5951]

They did (ish) The video was covered on the topic of Project Slippi

[@Motobug]

if anyone on the team reads this, I'm very down to help with anything needed for that project! dev on P+ and national TO, and basically know all PM lore lmao

[@tongster789]

Really was expecting AsumSaus instead of PTAS when I saw the Falco running toward me

[@dragodadragon]

Especially since he just used the Smashboards post and Sakurai Wavedash instructions in the video, both things that Asumsaus based videos on

[@kap1117]

ikr!!!

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

Recently I started to use wave landing in ultimate , and oh boy my offense pressure just sky rocketed up several miles

[@thelastgogeta]

I wish it was more universal in the game. Besides Kazuya (albeit Tekken style ones), Shulk (lagless if you know what you are doing) and Joker's gundash, it doesn't have a lot of utility.

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

I played Roy and that helps a lot with his landing punish , now I’m trying to experiment it on other characters as well

[@thelastgogeta]

@@陳嘉宇-y4q I can see what you mean since I did get some use out of the generic wavedash in Ultimate with Link, but I think it probably peaks with getting behind people in rare cases or predictable bosses in non-competitive modes. It works in Ultimate but besides those three characters and arguably even despite two of them, it is much weaker than in PM or Melee as an option. Sorta like crouch cancelling.

[@hastyhd5040]

@@thelastgogeta Shulk and Kazuya have the most practical applications of it. But every other character has a decent option of doing a Waveland on platforms. Wavelanding is used a lot at top level.

[@rapidrobby]

wave landing in ultimate still sucks. It's so laggy that your opponent can just react and not fall for any of your pressure

[@cise3895]

Fun fact: in Melee, there are 2 stats other than traction that determine a character’s wavedash/land length: jumpsquat (pre-jump for non-platform fighter players) and maximum walk speed. I admittedly couldn’t wrap my head around how the former affects the equation, but I can explain how max walk speed-the less intuitive of the two-interacts with wavedashing. When a character first enters landing lag (aka recovery) from airdodging into the ground, their momentum actually decays at double their regular traction. However, once the character’s speed reaches their max walk speed, they begin decelerating at their normal traction. This is why Fox has a longer wavedash than Sheik, despite having the same jumpsquat and traction. On a practical level, the speed of your character before entering jumpsquat also determines how far you go after inputting a grounded wavedash.

[@PracticalTAS]

oh hey thats me 🙋‍♂

[@dragodadragon]

Incredible video, love that you got PTAS and Dan Fornace to talk about this.

[@pyrusvincent1029]

Thanks for shining a spotlight on so many of our favorite games, and giving Melee a spin this time around.

[@lostkin4910]

That casually filthy line with the music was perfection

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

Wait, that pic in the article at 4:08 is a screenshot of one of my OOOLD melee videos. It wasn't even a good video. It was us emulating it at a messed up aspect ratio with friends not into competitive smash so we were goofing around. LOL, such a weird choice.

[@ThisIsWEB]

deeep lore

[@srflipp_]

There is a diference beetween closing the gap and removing skill celling . Btw happy new year Akshon!

[@mattzr1550]

i dont think there is tbh, the issue isnt removing it its that brawl didnt add anything to replace it, also brawl is just slow as shit by design.

[@stylesheetra9411]

@@mattzr1550 actually widening (is this a true world?ISL here) the appeal make the skill ceiling harder thanks to the increasing competition Anyway I dont know Smash well, if it have a tactical layer (which I hope it does) nothing really change if removed, because better guys will win via tactics, obv with the removal of it theoretically a guy that studied wavedashing 100h will feel robbed when it's beated by someone that use those hours to study positioning etc

[@revimfadli4666]

Then there's also a difference between those two, and lowering the skill floor

[@Appletank8]

its a bit sad, and perhaps a bit annoying, that Sakurai didn't realize that people who want to play to get good, want to feel like they're getting better. If practicing for years still results in losing randomly 5% of the time to someone just button mashing or the game just saying 'fuck you', you're not going to keep a lot of hardcore players. Also, casuals are unlikely to accidentally walk into tournaments anyways.

[@fernandobanda5734]

@@Appletank8 Sakurai was a hardcore fighting game player, he understands perfectly. His target demographic is also not hardcore fighting game players.

[@joeqiao1691]

man I appreciate you guys covering these stuff, overwatch and fighting games are somewhat niche genres nowadays and it's incredible that u guys continue to cover them with high quality content!

[@LargeInCharge77]

overwatch is such an underappreciated genre.

[@gregoryrothemich6844]

Learning about wavedashing in Rocket League was absolutely sick. Super interesting and the examples shown were so cool!

[@verguco6051]

you can do what?

[@temutemacular]

@@verguco6051 I was just as confused 😅

[@danielwilliams3161]

何

[@kevindhir]

Amazing start to 2022 Melee content, great work Jonah & the rest of the Akshon team. :)

[@jonahlee-ash4900]

💜💜💜

[@Keithustus]

Perfect timing, thanks. A friend who plays Smash mentioned wavedashing in reference to a discussion about bunnyhopping in FPSs and I had to come to YT to learn what it was. Thanks for the great video.

[@hounvs]

Slight correction, only a few PM devs went on to join Wavedash games. They didn't create it, it already existed. And evidence came out like a year later that both of those devs joined it before the PMDT disbanded. It's not critical to the focus of the video, just a more accurate representation of what happened. Also a Project+ mention woulda been nice but I love that rologfos' Waveland got mentioned.

[@Furionic696]

I cannot fathom how this video isn't 90% Tekken footage

[@Scroteydada]

Anyone remember Sonic Adventure? In that game you had the air dash, which was a forward impulse you could get in the air. Usually it's just used to correct your jumps, but it can also be performed right before landing to pump that momentum into your ground friction and speed off. I think it works in Sonic Adventure 2 as well

[@marco0445]

Superb editing as always!

[@d1tto232]

This video is like talking to casuals about the moon walk step mention a little the ones that used first and then talk hours about Michael Jackson, it was always a little bit annoying that some people in the melee community like leffen talk like melee invented everything and is the superior game even against pure fighting games, then claim he can get very good at tekken in a very short time but failing and putting excuses and rant when people call him at his bullsh1t calling us toxic.

[@taipo4063]

Leffen at its finest

[@CaptainVulcan]

I've been playing Tekken since 94, and it's a bit odd that he considered wavedashing in Tekken a novelty.

[@Parpeing]

wow crazy im not sure leffen was even mentionned once in this vid lmao

[@TrueYankeeFan]

@@Parpeing Leffen Derangement Syndrome lol

[@WavyJayZ]

@@Parpeing yeah but leffen is relevant to his point. Calm down, we know you want to stand up for your pizza faced friend but there's no need.

[@alexanderclark2545]

Always stoked to see people mention PM and acknowledge it, much love and support from myself and the CTP+ community!

[@aruretheincomprehensible20]

Correction: Brawlhalla doesn't have a wavedash. The movement technique that looks like a wavedash is actually just Brawlhalla's version of a normal dash like you'd find in any fighting game, and the movement technique that works most like a wave dash (chase dodging into the ground) doesn't let you keep your momentum on the ground, is only usable when you land a hit, and can't be used to reposition backwards. This wouldn't be a big deal except it's the ultimate platform fighter worth its salt. As a result, Brawlhalla shows how a platform fighter can have a thriving competitive scene without the need for a wavedash, rather than being an example of a platform fighter with a wavedash.

[@sounghungi]

So wavedashing in Tekken does help with movement but the main use of wavedashing is to realign the player to the enemy so actions performed out of the wavedash like hellsweep or electrics can't get sidestepped.

[@j-sun3821]

What a great video! You really covered a lot of content from Tekken to Project M to Celeste, awesome job.

[@jugohayashi2389]

Great video on the wavedash! You guys always provide the coolest insight, and really went beyond and above with this one. This sub is super deserved!

[@georgegkoumas5026]

*Talks about Wavedashing* Me, a Kazuya and Devil Jin main: "You know I'm kind of an expert at it" *Mentions Smash Melee and other platformers* Me, a guy who started Smash at Smash 4: "I got no idea what you're talking about"

[@NexusSpacey]

I really enjoyed the video, covered a lot of bases and gave enough info to cover them. Really well done :)

[@theshinken]

I love unexpected techniques that pop up in totally different games like wavedashing in Melee and Rocket League. Like there are somewhat similar movement techniques in Counter Strike and Splatoon to stop momentum faster.

[@IamtheWV17]

My favourite is skiing in tribes... a glitch defined the entire series.

[@tardissins7512]

Hearing you cover PM really made me want to see a video all about the big smash mods, from 64 to ult. There are a lot of them, and some are without a doubt better than their base games. It would be an interesting video.

[@armorbearer9702]

I am glad Nintendo allowed Kazuya's wavedashing. It is a good way to honor Tekken.

[@gianlucatartaro1335]

I loved the video, but the fact that the wavedashes from both the Marth and Fox in the intro weren’t fully grounded and went up in the air for at least one frame (except for the very first one that the Marth did) irked me 😂 I know I know, “Melee nerd, take a shower, touch some grass,” lmao I get it Fr tho, I LOVED the video! Between this video and AsumSaus’s video on wavedashing, wavedashing gets the amazing praise it deserves!

[@thunderjolt69]

starting off 2022 with a banger

[@ClubbingSealCub]

For such an incredibly important movement tech in so many games I'm surprised no game has ever decided to make a dedicated button for it.

[@faradise3819]

That would make it filthy casual.

[@fernandobanda5734]

Brawlhalla has a ground dash that's pretty much that without any complex mechanics behind needed.

[@KingMoonie]

Can we just take a minute to appreciate how great this editor is? 😂 this was sooo good. That Falco shot edit was cleeeaaan.

[@prospeedrunner2438]

one of the cleanest thumbnails you have btw

[@GetMyNerdOn]

As a complete and utter fighting game casual, I had never heard of wavedashing being in games outside of melee, but holy shit the clips from other games, especially Rocket League, are insane to see

[@Ka0sNinja117]

Great vid! I love history videos like this! The trend for increased speed and player control during movement is big in the first person shooter genre as the similar concept of the crouch side to conserve or gain speed has really taken over. From the og Titanfall to Halo Infinite is really taking over! Could do a similar follow-up video on that?

[@stryderlao]

I fell in love with Titan falls once i learn how to bunny hop

[@joaopedrofalcao6604]

While I was watching I kept remembering the tap strafe from apex

[@davidvkimball]

I've been waiting for a comprehensive video about wavedashing like this. This is perfect! Thanks for creating this!

[@d4nkey]

Solid Video! I loved your hook it brought me over from Twitter to actually watch the full video

[@marksbarra99]

every time your videos are awesome, now that i can support you guys on patreon i'm feeling better and hope you keep making videos

[@Moss_Dude]

Best out of context quote of the video: "How can a car wavedash?"

[@purplepeargaming69]

Hell yeah, more content about melee from the Ashkon legends 😎 At this point, I ALSO want to thank Weaboo and Spartacus XD

[@kingoreo7050]

First vid of the year? Nice!

[@LightCave02]

I can really feel the love yall put into this video. Love your work guys. Keep it up!

[@PoosinP]

I wouldn’t say Wavedashing is a novelty in Tekken, if anything, it’s even more of a staple, as movement is the barrier between high and low level play.

[@sadetwizelve]

Dude doesn't know shit,he was so smash focused like it created it. He even credited it to the "platform fighting genre" as is if it's bigger than just smash. I hate people like him.

[@mlalbaitero]

@@sadetwizelve there is more

[@thatrandomguy3914]

@@sadetwizelve you hate him because he focused on smash because its the game that made it popular wow you really need to get friends, touch grass, do anything besides hating on people for no reason

[@sadetwizelve]

@@mlalbaitero names?

[@mlalbaitero]

@@sadetwizelve rivals of aether, Nick all stars, brawlhalla, slap city?

[@Pr_Bumb_Fluff]

Wavedash? A novelty in Tekken? Someone hasn't played a Tekken God Kazuya

[@faradise3819]

Watch till the end and it will come full circle.

[@snaptrak3680]

My favourite one of your vids I need more mechanic histories in my life please.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

What an amazing video about Wavedashing and Fighting Games!

[@timogul]

I don't see why, for all the work they put into Smash Ultimate, they couldn't have included a "melee mode," a special tournament mode that keeps the fully roster and character moves, but uses the general rulesets from melee, including wavedashing. It wouldn't be exactly the same, since characters would handle different individually, but it should feel similar overall and people could adapt to new options. I totally agree with Sakurai that Smash should be accessible, and core Smash should be how they ended up making it, but having the option for those other players would be nice.

[@fernandobanda5734]

That would be a huge amount of work unless you don't want it balanced at all. It also would heavily divide the community which is the one thing you don't want to do in a game that relies on getting other people to play with you

[@timogul]

@@fernandobanda5734 I don't know. The total Smash sales are MASSIVE, so I don't think that "dividing the community" would be too serious a concern. And as far as balance, I mean how balanced was the original Melee? It seems that some characters took high preference over others. I think they could just include the core Melee mechanics, and then let the balance work itself out. The core Ultimate experience is the one that is intended to be the balanced Ultimate experience, the Melee alt mode would be more for fun than for hardcore balance, but of could they could make a balance pass or two after ti comes out if some clear problems emerge. That's one of the nice things about a post-patching world, you don't need to get it right on the first try.

[@aspidani_6758]

So much effort went into this !!! Good job

[@Ridlay_]

Really cool and interesting, love that you covered this! Also you really used a picture from the April Fools tetherball skit for Dan lol, ah too good.

[@ivansotelo4622]

Let's hope the new multiversus game does innovate like Brawlhalla did with their multiplayer game modes, the genre has much more potential than traditional fighters, and needs to be expanded

[@blazeedge1631]

Didn't know i needed akshon covering wavedashing

[@NeutralOfficial]

man putting that hugs chu clip in there is EVIL

[@SirNilooo]

I always look forward to your uploads! Thank you! And happy New Year!

[@tstsdrtsdrtsts]

a melee vid? from my favorite channel? akshon, christmas was a week ago!

[@vltraviolence7640]

Theres this game from Korea called Gunz The Duel which is a 3rd person shooter. It has a very complex movement like air dashes, wall run, back flips, front flips, etc. The command for front flip is the same as dashing. You flip when you have a gun and you dash when you have a melee. And you can do these both while on the air/ jumping. dashing is unique because its faster, like really fast, its instant when you immediatley command it . The problem is that it has a bit of a cool down, you cant dash all the time, so it would be fair to the ones using guns. You can dash, jump then do an air dash faster than waiting for the cool down on the ground but the speed difference is not that much. But theres a weird mechanic where if you block with the melee, it resets your movement cooldown, and the other funny thing is, blocking has no follow through frame, meaning you can instantly do anything after you block, meaning you can dash after you block. So you can dash, block, airdash, block, airdash,,block, airdash block, etc. Dashing doesnt make you jump higher, meaning even if you air dash, your trajectory is still down to the ground.

[@wabbit2099]

This channel actually did a whole video on Gunz about 5 months ago.

[@TNinja0]

Wave dashing is testament to freedom

[@RameoMTL]

Wave dash existed in the older Marvel games before 2.

[@StarKnight54]

Another golden intro by Akshon

[@snjvbss]

The panic caused by a pro sentinel player in mvc3 wavedashing towards you was unreal

[@SkylightCiel]

Wave dashing in Rocket League broke my mind

[@AsuraiGaming]

This is intro is pure gold frothing at the mouth had me laughing hard af

[@danihk2872]

i remember when i accidentally discovered wavedashing in celeste and used it against badeline (where the goal is to just touch her before she hits you) and feeling like damn superhero

[@mostermaaaaan]

i love when you guys do fighting game stuff you especially bro you and your team doing good shit keep it up

[@Solar7cc]

0:42 You actually just said that... That's hilarious

[@TylerHyperFace]

We love to see this!

[@gravity_cow]

3:54 Moment of silence for the guy that underestimated a genre-defining tech

[@tanish9881]

Honestly, I think it would be kinda fun to see a melee tournament where everything is the same except wavedashing is removed, and see how people react to all tech being present, besides wavedash.

[@NeoAnguiano]

Wavedashing is like a drift, your using physics to overcome a limitation by doing something unintended serving as a shortcut making a more optimized outcome

[@triforce9286]

This was incredibly fascinating and informative, I enjoyed it immensely. Now I must attempt to wavedash in Rocket League and Ultimate

[@Micha-Hil]

I like wavedashing because it lets me do an analog input with a digital input

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

Honestly, anyone can consent or not consent to wavedashing before each match! And whole tournaments can be built around _both_ wavedashing and non-wavedashing. _Both_ wavedashing and non-wavedashing are 100% competitively viable! So why do we only give power to wavedashing competition and never to non-wavedashing competition??…..🤔 *_Everyone_** needs to fix this so that non-wavedashing competition is just as frequent as wavedashing competition.*

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

because non wavedashing competition just unfairly takes out depth and slows shit down

[@user-wl2xl5hm7k]

@@HeDronHeDronHedron Your answer isn’t relevant. There needs to be pro play where people consent to not wavedash. I’m just going to not consent to fight with you.

[@HeDronHeDronHedron]

@@user-wl2xl5hm7k so you mean like ultimate

[@muswoom7329]

great video! super well made

[@deadfr0g]

Ahh, the many many wavedashes of the collective FGC! Marvel players also use a movement technique that they named “wavedash,” where a brief crouch is used to cancel one consecutive ground dash into another. (In that sense, I suppose it’s similar to Tekken’s wavedash, but the input and applications are way different, and you’re covering horizontal distance extremely quickly.) Marvel players also also have another movement technique that superficially looks pretty similar to Smash’s wavedash, but the Marvel players call it a trijump (short for “triangle jump”). It’s mainly used on offense to create extremely fast overhead attacks, and thus high-low mixups. Fun trivia about trijumping: The competitive scene didn’t discover it until the early years of Marvel 2, but they immediately realized that it worked in the older Marvel games too.

[@mattzr1550]

Melee and rivals have triangle dashes but in melee it's bad on everyone except Zelda

[@dophystry9636]

Happy New Year, Akshon Man.

[@efisiospiga6540]

As far as I know PM devs moving to Icons was just a rumor

[@jugohayashi2389]

yeah there were only a couple pm devs on Icons, from what I've heard

[@brtats]

really good video as always! :)

[@sleebyrose]

Kazuya wavedashing in smash is scary as hell.

[@NeviTheLettyFan]

Melee my beloved

[@Boricosa]

A great video to start the year!

[@homelessjedi2499]

Yeah I’m definitely gonna have to imagine Smash players being invited to a party at the beginning 🥸

[@driftwood42]

If I’m not misremembering anything, there was actually a type of wave dash in an early release of brawl. I remember reading a smashboards post from a player named Zigsta who said something along the lines of using specific aerials close to the ground resulted in movement similar to a wave dash.

[@LunaTulpa]

you are misremembering because there was no "early release version", brawl never got any updates/balance changes nor was there regional differences

[@driftwood42]

@@LunaTulpa I guess early release wasn't the right word. It was more along the lines of a playable version at some convention. Again this is all if I remember it correctly, I tried searching for it, but I think its a bit too obscure to find easily. The guy has 8K posts on smashboards.

[@ff1077]

Hope you guys keep doing more other esports content like this than overwatch content. These are getting a lot of good attention.

[@peterwange5513]

You really had to do my boy Hugo like that? The Chudat Sopo clip is supposed to be forgotten to history

[@firechargeogname]

"I bet I can beat anyone here at smash" and so it begins

[@Akarayad]

wavedashing is a novelty in tekken, huh

[@AnnoDomini19XX]

I chuckled a bit when he said that.

[@pringrings22]

Starting off the New Year Right!!!!

[@TrojanSalesmen1]

wavedash is not really a novelty in Tekken. It is kinda needed

[@SaltymanGaming]

As a Mii Brawler main I use the Waveland all the time in Smash Ultimate. One of the few characters it's good on since they can just kill you off a grab on platforms at like 40%. They also have a lot of ways of knocking you onto platforms and a lot of other combo extensions so it's a really good mixup.

[@dragonshima_5162]

Great Video!

[@firechargeogname]

1:11 "what is a wave dash" that's...why I'm here

[@evolancer211]

I was that guy saying that to all my friends and yeah. I was able to back it up most of the time

[@Magic0YT]

ok that was so educational! nice video im leaving a like

[@jeanpilgrim8575]

STRAFE JUMPING is another good example 👏 👌

[@jeancarlodelaluz6415]

The rivals of aether training made me learn wavedash and made it easier for me in smash. Now all I need is to parry them moves.

[@lordofthevallies2280]

I actually learned what a wave dash was from rocket league. So i thought the name came from that game.