The Technique That Defined A Genre - History of Wavedashing

[@poolturtle5772]

“The thing that separates the filthy casuals from the casually filthy” I like that. That’s a good phrase.

[@bubblegunsoldier7484]

yea... i think im just going to borrow that.

[@brown9671]

no lie that shit went hard

[@willus259]

Tekken Tag player that started in 99 here, while I see that some players are trying to explain what the purpose of Wavedash (WD) was in Tekken (some have said that it's to realign, some have said that it's just simply for movement), they are not the *main* purpose for WDing back then. It was to mainly mask the mixups that Jin (closest equivalent in T7 is Devil Jin) and Kazuya had, you could hit strong low attacks with his Hellsweep(s) (f,n,d,d/f+4) or a properly executed and timed command could get you a mid launcher (WS+2 for Jin, WS+1,2 for Kaz). Definitely not a novelty as mentioned in the vid.

[@zhaoyun255]

I was about to say that. Not to mention Korean Backdash as well.

[@GuysInGreenHats]

WD still serves the same purpose today in t7 though, for almost all characters that can do it. KBD is the most important movement in tekken obvi though.

[@willus259]

@@GuysInGreenHats no doubt, main difference in T7 though is the effectiveness of WD with the given uses.

[@172rkgk]

THANK YOU, was looking for this comment

[@NicholasMakaveli]

When I first saw this I was kinda annoyed he thought wavedashing is for novelty in tekken....like someone wavedashing in ur face not pressing buttons isn't scary af before u get hit with an electric at perfect timing right when u jab

[@aVeryAngryMoth]

You should also cover koopabackdashwaveslidehoverwalkmoonlandings (yes, that’s a real tech in melee)

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

Wait what

[@skeletorthebest7204]

@@陳嘉宇-y4q You’ve never heard of koopabackdashwaveslidehoverwalkmoonlanding?

[@osto9967]

@@skeletorthebest7204 Vital tech for any bowser main

[@陳嘉宇-y4q]

@@skeletorthebest7204 Still new in melee , for like 3 years

[@gamieTG]

@@陳嘉宇-y4q Asumsaus has a video about it: kzbin.info/www/bejne/r5zHf3avmKtnfNk

[@Furionic696]

I cannot fathom how this video isn't 90% Tekken footage

[@cise3895]

Fun fact: in Melee, there are 2 stats other than traction that determine a character’s wavedash/land length: jumpsquat (pre-jump for non-platform fighter players) and maximum walk speed. I admittedly couldn’t wrap my head around how the former affects the equation, but I can explain how max walk speed-the less intuitive of the two-interacts with wavedashing. When a character first enters landing lag (aka recovery) from airdodging into the ground, their momentum actually decays at double their regular traction. However, once the character’s speed reaches their max walk speed, they begin decelerating at their normal traction. This is why Fox has a longer wavedash than Sheik, despite having the same jumpsquat and traction. On a practical level, the speed of your character before entering jumpsquat also determines how far you go after inputting a grounded wavedash.

[@lostkin4910]

That casually filthy line with the music was perfection

[@hounvs]

Slight correction, only a few PM devs went on to join Wavedash games. They didn't create it, it already existed. And evidence came out like a year later that both of those devs joined it before the PMDT disbanded. It's not critical to the focus of the video, just a more accurate representation of what happened. Also a Project+ mention woulda been nice but I love that rologfos' Waveland got mentioned.

[@Scroteydada]

Anyone remember Sonic Adventure? In that game you had the air dash, which was a forward impulse you could get in the air. Usually it's just used to correct your jumps, but it can also be performed right before landing to pump that momentum into your ground friction and speed off. I think it works in Sonic Adventure 2 as well

[@Jarekthegamingdragon]

Wait, that pic in the article at 4:08 is a screenshot of one of my OOOLD melee videos. It wasn't even a good video. It was us emulating it at a messed up aspect ratio with friends not into competitive smash so we were goofing around. LOL, such a weird choice.

[@ThisIsWEB]

deeep lore

[@srflipp_]

There is a diference beetween closing the gap and removing skill celling . Btw happy new year Akshon!

[@mattzr1550]

i dont think there is tbh, the issue isnt removing it its that brawl didnt add anything to replace it, also brawl is just slow as shit by design.

[@stylesheetra9411]

@@mattzr1550 actually widening (is this a true world?ISL here) the appeal make the skill ceiling harder thanks to the increasing competition Anyway I dont know Smash well, if it have a tactical layer (which I hope it does) nothing really change if removed, because better guys will win via tactics, obv with the removal of it theoretically a guy that studied wavedashing 100h will feel robbed when it's beated by someone that use those hours to study positioning etc

[@revimfadli4666]

Then there's also a difference between those two, and lowering the skill floor

[@Appletank8]

its a bit sad, and perhaps a bit annoying, that Sakurai didn't realize that people who want to play to get good, want to feel like they're getting better. If practicing for years still results in losing randomly 5% of the time to someone just button mashing or the game just saying 'fuck you', you're not going to keep a lot of hardcore players. Also, casuals are unlikely to accidentally walk into tournaments anyways.

[@fernandobanda5734]

@@Appletank8 Sakurai was a hardcore fighting game player, he understands perfectly. His target demographic is also not hardcore fighting game players.

[@dragodadragon]

Incredible video, love that you got PTAS and Dan Fornace to talk about this.

[@gregoryrothemich6844]

Learning about wavedashing in Rocket League was absolutely sick. Super interesting and the examples shown were so cool!

[@verguco6051]

you can do what?

[@temutemacular]

@@verguco6051 I was just as confused 😅

[@danielwilliams3161]

何

[@georgegkoumas5026]

*Talks about Wavedashing* Me, a Kazuya and Devil Jin main: "You know I'm kind of an expert at it" *Mentions Smash Melee and other platformers* Me, a guy who started Smash at Smash 4: "I got no idea what you're talking about"

[@kevindhir]

Amazing start to 2022 Melee content, great work Jonah & the rest of the Akshon team. :)

[@jonahlee-ash4900]

💜💜💜

[@theshinken]

I love unexpected techniques that pop up in totally different games like wavedashing in Melee and Rocket League. Like there are somewhat similar movement techniques in Counter Strike and Splatoon to stop momentum faster.

[@IamtheWV17]

My favourite is skiing in tribes... a glitch defined the entire series.

[@d1tto232]

This video is like talking to casuals about the moon walk step mention a little the ones that used first and then talk hours about Michael Jackson, it was always a little bit annoying that some people in the melee community like leffen talk like melee invented everything and is the superior game even against pure fighting games, then claim he can get very good at tekken in a very short time but failing and putting excuses and rant when people call him at his bullsh1t calling us toxic.

[@taipo4063]

Leffen at its finest

[@CaptainVulcan]

I've been playing Tekken since 94, and it's a bit odd that he considered wavedashing in Tekken a novelty.

[@Parpeing]

wow crazy im not sure leffen was even mentionned once in this vid lmao

[@TrueYankeeFan]

@@Parpeing Leffen Derangement Syndrome lol

[@WavyJayZ]

@@Parpeing yeah but leffen is relevant to his point. Calm down, we know you want to stand up for your pizza faced friend but there's no need.

[@alexanderclark2545]

Always stoked to see people mention PM and acknowledge it, much love and support from myself and the CTP+ community!

[@gianlucatartaro1335]

I loved the video, but the fact that the wavedashes from both the Marth and Fox in the intro weren’t fully grounded and went up in the air for at least one frame (except for the very first one that the Marth did) irked me 😂 I know I know, “Melee nerd, take a shower, touch some grass,” lmao I get it Fr tho, I LOVED the video! Between this video and AsumSaus’s video on wavedashing, wavedashing gets the amazing praise it deserves!

[@ClubbingSealCub]

For such an incredibly important movement tech in so many games I'm surprised no game has ever decided to make a dedicated button for it.

[@faradise3819]

That would make it filthy casual.

[@fernandobanda5734]

Brawlhalla has a ground dash that's pretty much that without any complex mechanics behind needed.

[@marco0445]

Superb editing as always!

[@ivansotelo4622]

Let's hope the new multiversus game does innovate like Brawlhalla did with their multiplayer game modes, the genre has much more potential than traditional fighters, and needs to be expanded

[@SkylightCiel]

Wave dashing in Rocket League broke my mind

[@Ka0sNinja117]

Great vid! I love history videos like this! The trend for increased speed and player control during movement is big in the first person shooter genre as the similar concept of the crouch side to conserve or gain speed has really taken over. From the og Titanfall to Halo Infinite is really taking over! Could do a similar follow-up video on that?

[@stryderlao]

I fell in love with Titan falls once i learn how to bunny hop

[@joaopedrofalcao6604]

While I was watching I kept remembering the tap strafe from apex

[@Akarayad]

wavedashing is a novelty in tekken, huh

[@AnnoDomini19XX]

I chuckled a bit when he said that.

[@jugohayashi2389]

Great video on the wavedash! You guys always provide the coolest insight, and really went beyond and above with this one. This sub is super deserved!

[@NexusSpacey]

I really enjoyed the video, covered a lot of bases and gave enough info to cover them. Really well done :)

[@sleebyrose]

Kazuya wavedashing in smash is scary as hell.

[@TrojanSalesmen1]

wavedash is not really a novelty in Tekken. It is kinda needed

[@davidvkimball]

I've been waiting for a comprehensive video about wavedashing like this. This is perfect! Thanks for creating this!

[@vltraviolence7640]

Theres this game from Korea called Gunz The Duel which is a 3rd person shooter. It has a very complex movement like air dashes, wall run, back flips, front flips, etc. The command for front flip is the same as dashing. You flip when you have a gun and you dash when you have a melee. And you can do these both while on the air/ jumping. dashing is unique because its faster, like really fast, its instant when you immediatley command it . The problem is that it has a bit of a cool down, you cant dash all the time, so it would be fair to the ones using guns. You can dash, jump then do an air dash faster than waiting for the cool down on the ground but the speed difference is not that much. But theres a weird mechanic where if you block with the melee, it resets your movement cooldown, and the other funny thing is, blocking has no follow through frame, meaning you can instantly do anything after you block, meaning you can dash after you block. So you can dash, block, airdash, block, airdash,,block, airdash block, etc. Dashing doesnt make you jump higher, meaning even if you air dash, your trajectory is still down to the ground.

[@wabbit2099]

This channel actually did a whole video on Gunz about 5 months ago.

[@KingMoonie]

Can we just take a minute to appreciate how great this editor is? 😂 this was sooo good. That Falco shot edit was cleeeaaan.

[@fernandozavaletabustos205]

What an amazing video about Wavedashing and Fighting Games!

[@NeviTheLettyFan]

Melee my beloved

[@tstsdrtsdrtsts]

a melee vid? from my favorite channel? akshon, christmas was a week ago!

[@turbokiller]

As a TEKKEN player I have to say: 10/10 on this!

[@marksbarra99]

every time your videos are awesome, now that i can support you guys on patreon i'm feeling better and hope you keep making videos

[@timogul]

I don't see why, for all the work they put into Smash Ultimate, they couldn't have included a "melee mode," a special tournament mode that keeps the fully roster and character moves, but uses the general rulesets from melee, including wavedashing. It wouldn't be exactly the same, since characters would handle different individually, but it should feel similar overall and people could adapt to new options. I totally agree with Sakurai that Smash should be accessible, and core Smash should be how they ended up making it, but having the option for those other players would be nice.

[@fernandobanda5734]

That would be a huge amount of work unless you don't want it balanced at all. It also would heavily divide the community which is the one thing you don't want to do in a game that relies on getting other people to play with you

[@timogul]

@@fernandobanda5734 I don't know. The total Smash sales are MASSIVE, so I don't think that "dividing the community" would be too serious a concern. And as far as balance, I mean how balanced was the original Melee? It seems that some characters took high preference over others. I think they could just include the core Melee mechanics, and then let the balance work itself out. The core Ultimate experience is the one that is intended to be the balanced Ultimate experience, the Melee alt mode would be more for fun than for hardcore balance, but of could they could make a balance pass or two after ti comes out if some clear problems emerge. That's one of the nice things about a post-patching world, you don't need to get it right on the first try.

[@firechargeogname]

1:11 "what is a wave dash" that's...why I'm here

[@NeutralOfficial]

man putting that hugs chu clip in there is EVIL

[@Phasmastic]

*Laughs in KBD*

[@SaltymanGaming]

As a Mii Brawler main I use the Waveland all the time in Smash Ultimate. One of the few characters it's good on since they can just kill you off a grab on platforms at like 40%. They also have a lot of ways of knocking you onto platforms and a lot of other combo extensions so it's a really good mixup.

[@kingoreo7050]

First vid of the year? Nice!

[@Ridlay_]

Really cool and interesting, love that you covered this! Also you really used a picture from the April Fools tetherball skit for Dan lol, ah too good.

[@d4nkey]

Solid Video! I loved your hook it brought me over from Twitter to actually watch the full video

[@efisiospiga6540]

As far as I know PM devs moving to Icons was just a rumor

[@jugohayashi2389]

yeah there were only a couple pm devs on Icons, from what I've heard

[@snaptrak3680]

My favourite one of your vids I need more mechanic histories in my life please.

[@triforce9286]

This was incredibly fascinating and informative, I enjoyed it immensely. Now I must attempt to wavedash in Rocket League and Ultimate

[@blazeedge1631]

Didn't know i needed akshon covering wavedashing

[@jeanpilgrim8575]

STRAFE JUMPING is another good example 👏 👌

[@LightCave02]

I can really feel the love yall put into this video. Love your work guys. Keep it up!

[@peterwange5513]

You really had to do my boy Hugo like that? The Chudat Sopo clip is supposed to be forgotten to history

[@NeoAnguiano]

Wavedashing is like a drift, your using physics to overcome a limitation by doing something unintended serving as a shortcut making a more optimized outcome

[@snjvbss]

The panic caused by a pro sentinel player in mvc3 wavedashing towards you was unreal

[@StarKnight54]

Another golden intro by Akshon

[@tanish9881]

Honestly, I think it would be kinda fun to see a melee tournament where everything is the same except wavedashing is removed, and see how people react to all tech being present, besides wavedash.

[@firechargeogname]

"I bet I can beat anyone here at smash" and so it begins

[@sakalaath]

Lol, the chillindude smashboards post is so funny.

[@ButlersTraining]

for a second i was sad, celeste wasnt mentioned, but i decided to watch til the end before commenting. and i was not disappointed

[@lordofthevallies2280]

I actually learned what a wave dash was from rocket league. So i thought the name came from that game.

[@LuroRose]

Gonna learn to wave dash while boxing

[@madil2259]

Wavu wavu

[@AsuraiGaming]

This is intro is pure gold frothing at the mouth had me laughing hard af

[@homelessjedi2499]

Yeah I’m definitely gonna have to imagine Smash players being invited to a party at the beginning 🥸

[@jeancarlodelaluz6415]

The rivals of aether training made me learn wavedash and made it easier for me in smash. Now all I need is to parry them moves.

[@coreygolphenee9633]

What diverticulitis characters do in marvel is closer to a melee Wavedash

[@andy764]

Wavedash was a thing in Melee, but it was not even considered a good move in Ultimate. A Japanese player, Protobanham, started to bring it back to Ultimate; it's back, being a "fashion" rather than a ground-breaking move.

[@Riokaii]

Missing Dustforce, which was based directly from Marth's movement primarily from melee

[@thadex454]

Wavedashing sounds like a surfing move

[@kaja3932]

3:54 Moment of silence for the guy that underestimated a genre-defining tech

[@GuacJohnson]

theres a version of brawl minus i cant find again after it got corrupted 4yrs ago on my ssd, but it's got tons of insane movement options for characters. Especially marth and luigi: Marths neutral b would send forward in the air or backward if on the ground and luigi always misfires

[@flawed911]

8:11 Sima-lair-lee........WHAT 🤯🤯🤯

[@dophystry9636]

Happy New Year, Akshon Man.

[@jelaninoel]

14:27 guy loses his mind after his victory 😆

[@RobZombii]

That statement.... that ONE statement..... had been starting fueds since the late '90s. "I BET I CAN BEAT ANYONE HERE AT SMASH" Oh it's on like Donkey Kong... (one of my mains btw lmfao)

[@artan_kaare3504]

bro ad CONTROL to the list of games with wavedashing in them! it's a third person shooter that lets you cancel a normal dash with a melee atack input and it lets you slide across the ground. its so cool!

[@brtats]

really good video as always! :)

[@Boricosa]

A great video to start the year!

[@alexanderj19]

I would like to see Josh's opinions on Pittsburgh roads

[@rayminishi689]

Smash players foaming at the mouth that Melee didnt start the wavedashing tech.

[@Parpeing]

nahh im affraid nobody cares bud

[@sebas9504]

Amazing video!

[@KrisKrisKrisKrisKris]

the fucking my b on chillindudes post had me rolling good editing

[@0b5qRa]

Wavedash is a novelty in Tekken. Yeah right... 🤔

[@halfdecentstrange]

" You're cheating! Just like when you wavedash!" -Berdly, 2021

[@jbob4996]

1:48 wavedashing was NOT a novelty in tag1, lol

[@matheusleandro219]

What is the song playing in the beginning??? I need to know. I was literally thinking of it before watching this video.

[@Magic0YT]

ok that was so educational! nice video im leaving a like

[@FloraOfTheCats]

yeah the wavedash is fuckin sick

[@fhjunior6183]

Thanks for the vid

[@adamstrong98]

I know this is an old vid, but I really feel like you massively overlooked wavedashing in every game outside of Melee. Please properly research a topic outside the chosen focus, or specify the scope of a talk piece like this, as it is misleading and putting all the credit on one source when there are many influential cases. Wavedashing has been possible since before Tekken Tag 1, and continues to be a staple mechanic in many characters' kits to this day. It's a core tool not only for movement but intense mix-ups and aggressive play (similar to how it's used in melee) due to how it not only homes in on your opponent, but grants access to a new set of moves which can be mixed-up with your normal kit through various buffers/cancels.

[@WavyJayZ]

Yeah I stopped the video after his tekken wavedash "explanation". That was awful..

[@unlockablecharacter8134]

Gonna wavedash through 2022

[@DieRugle]

what a video, congrats

[@mangelo1901]

i love that they use good gameplay

[@redye5858]

such well made video

[@WavyJayZ]

Idk where this guy got his tekken info from but he's WAAAAY off😂😂😂

[@CSDragon]

5:12 why all the buildup with an AsumSaus reference only to smash cut to PracticalTAS I mean, I like both of them, but that is clearly a transition to AsumSaus, I feel baited

[@csolisr]

Wait a second did you just post footage from a banned player on 9:31?

[@LordFartamor]

kirby will win a tourney one day

[@WuZzupItsMatt]

should have included crumpet dashing from shrek super slam ;)

[@CosmicDomo]

melee is sick

[@BladeOfLight16]

Stupid KZbin. It's not showing the post date. Is this an old video, or a new one?